Chris Matthews Apologizes on Behalf of All White People to Black Colleagues in Wake of Zimmerman Verdict

Credit: Youtube

Last night on Hardball, during a segment on Trayvon Martin, Chris Matthews apologized to his black colleagues on behalf of all white people after they discussed their experiences growing up as young black men. 

NBC News executive Val Nichola explained how he was targeted as a teenager in an op-ed for MSNBC.com titled "I Could Have Been Trayvon Martin." During the segment Matthews spoke to Nichola and former RNC chairman Michael Steele, who is a MSNBC political analyst. 

Concluding his discussion with Nichola and Steele Matthews made his apology on behalf of all white people.

From the Huffington Post:

"We're going to continue this conversation privately and on television," Matthews said, wrapping up the segment. "I'll just tell you one thing and I'm speaking now for all white people but especially those who have tried to change in the last 50 or 60 years—and a lot of them have really tried to change—I'm sorry for this stuff. That's all I'm saying."

Watch the segment below:

Read Reason.com's coverage of Trayvon Martin and the George Zimmerman trial here and here.

Comments

[MissMalevolent]

Patronizingly racist...

[Spencer]

I was going to call him a patronizing cunt, but tomato tomahto...

[PapayaSF]

He also lives in a lily-white neighborhood.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Edward Alsworth Ross did not consider my "race" to be white. Apparently I am supposed to be hitting the lottery.

I hope Matthews has a Sicilian best friend to play cards with.

[ShagNasty]

Not only am I pissed off that Chris Matthews thinks he is entitled to speak for me, I am confused about what I should be sorry for. Neither me, nor Matthews, nor any other white person I know is responsible for that verdict.

[lap83]

Black people should also be pissed. The implication is that they're all racists who believe any white person is automatically guilty.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

I've already been pardoned by Walter Williams. He's got them on his website. You should go get one.

[Doctor Whom]

If you truly understood diversity, you'd know that there are no such things as white persons, only a Borg-like collective known as white people.

[Live Free or Diet]

White? Oh no, I'm an Anglo- Prussian- Franco- Norse- Latin- Native- Scot- Irish- American.
I am diversity, all in one skin.

[UnCivilServant]

I've only got Anglo-Celt.

[Enough About Palin]

German/Polish. I can't tell you how many times I've sent myself to the camps.

[Floridian]

Genealogy assumes everyone in your family tree was honest and faithful. One cheating wife can throw your whole tree out of whack. You think you are half Viking? Ha! Some Irish con weaseled his way into your grandmas bed. Now you know why you can't resist Jameson's.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Found out recently that my father's ethnic group is basically a white/black mix that has been pretending to be Portuguese for about 200 years.

[Zeb]

So, do you feel more insulted by what Matthews said as a black person or as a white person?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

So, do you feel more insulted by what Matthews said as a black person or as a white person?

I look like a Finn, so I feel insulted on behalf of all Finns.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I've been saving up for the Ancestry.com DNA test actually. I want to do both the Y-chromosone one and the maternal mitochondrial DNA one.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

My Y chromosome is apparently from the Indus Valley (Pakistan). No clue on how that happened. Maybe came from some Moors who settled into Florida and moved north along the Appalachians.

X-chromosome is probably Dutch-German, which explains my spasmodic right arm.

[Zeb]

Most Irish are part viking anyway.

[Floridian]

Interesting. I too would like to do the DNA test. There is some doubts to who my material grandfather's real father was.

[creech]

Maybe we are related. My paternal great grandmother refused to reveal to her family who knocked her up.

[creech]

Maybe we are related. My paternal great grandmother refused to reveal to her family who knocked her up.

[Pro Libertate]

My Scottish ancestors were right smack in the middle of islands that got raided and occupied by Vikings on a fortnightly basis. I figure there's no way I don't have any Viking blood. Which disturbs me when I'm pillaging villages for some reason.

[Killazontherun]

Most Irish are part viking anyway.

Yeah, the parts that were raped.

[Zeb]

Vikings did a lot of colonizing in addition to raping and pillaging.

[Killazontherun]

Only where there was no one to rape and pillage like in Iceland.

[Austrian Anarchy]

They were not unresponsive.

[Spencer]

I don't know what I am. A mutt I assume, like most.

[robc]

Everyone is a mutt.

The purest lilly-white Finn (and they are about as white as it comes) is a descendent of Africans and Asians and Middle Easterners and, probably, Ghengis Khan.

KHAAAAAAAAAN!

[Zeb]

Don't forget Neanderthals.

[Spencer]

I know, he's so genetically superior that we had to breed him with all of our women to sap his seed of power and keep his ubermen from taking over the world!

that's what I learned in public school anyway.

(also, when can we jump on the whole hashtag train?!) [(otherwise known as the pound sign)(oh yeah)]

[Zeb]

Never, please.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

(also, when can we jump on the whole hashtag train?!) [(otherwise known as the pound sign)(oh yeah)]

#nohashtags

[Austrian Anarchy]

White is for almost anybody a Leftist disagrees with, no matter how much melanin their skin contains.

[Pro Libertate]

This nonsense is spiraling out of control. All that anyone rational can draw from this case is that it is difficult to convict someone in our justice system, without regard to what you think really happened.

If Zimmerman were in fact an Illinois Nazi, KKK dragon overlord with black slaves in his basement who was out hunting black teens that night, he still should've walked. Because the evidence to prove all of that or even any of that wasn't there. That's not racist, that's our principle of protecting the innocent first by requiring overwhelming evidence of guilt before we deprive a person of life, liberty, and/or property.

I also am deeply offended by these lefties who think they "own" black issues. Blacks can and do think for themselves and don't need white liberals patting them on the head.

Fuck you, Chris, you don't speak for anyone but your own very confused self.

[Enough About Palin]

I also am deeply offended by these lefties who think they "own" blacks issues

[ShagNasty]

I totally agree with this, but thanks to america's current lynch mob mentality, publicly expressing this sentiment leads everyone to believe that you're a heartless racist.

[Bill Dalasio]

"That's not racist, that's our principle of protecting the innocent first by requiring overwhelming evidence of guilt before we deprive a person of life, liberty, and/or property."

Yeah, I've even commented a couple of times to liberal friends, "Given the pattern of arrests between young black males and everybody else, do you really want to make it EASIER for the state to obtain convictions?"

They don't tend to like that question.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Don't complain. You are free, at last.

[Bean Counter]

I don't recall giving him permission to say anything on my behalf except: "Here Bean Counter, have half my take home pay for the last 6 years as a way of saying 'I'm sorry I'm a patronizing douchebag'."

[John]

That is because you are not one of the proper white people who has been trying to change things in the last 50 years.

[Bean Counter]

Thank GOD!! I really enjoy my improper status. My fellow bean counters think I'm a radical libertarian.

[Drake]

Douchechilling

[NoVAHockey]

Who? Chris Matthews?

http://reason.com/blog/2013/07.....nt_3880676

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Way to self-gloss, NoVA. 😉

[John]

Matthews should be apologizing all right. Just not for that.

[NoVAHockey]

OT NHL schedule and new division names.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.ht.....l:topheads

Pacific Division
Central Division
Metropolitan Division -- WTF?
Atlantic Division

[John]

Go back to calling them after people. I want the Norris Division back. That was so cool.

[NoVAHockey]

that would have made too much sense.

[KDN]

After the Board of Governors refused to let him name the Metro division after himself, little man Gary torpedoed the whole Norris scheme.

[SweatingGin]

Weird shape to the Eastern Conference divisions now, too... I like the set of teams that Detroit ends up with better than the Columbus set, but kind of bizarre.

Seems like the NHL could really have things work better by not having the NYR, NYI, and NJD playing each other all the time, but what do I know.

[Auric Demonocles]

Here's what it looks like.

[Torontonian]

The league had to throw Detroit a bone and let them back into the East.

[SweatingGin]

Yea. As a metro-Detroiter, playoffs on the road against Western Conference teams are just brutal.

[Auric Demonocles]

These unbalanced divisions are stupid.

[scottstams]

Metropolitan?

It was only a matter of time after that DOMA ruling....

[Auric Demonocles]

Looking at the map I linked upthread, I can kind of understand the name. Otherwise it's like "East Central" or something.

[Spencer]

"...and to all white people that I've just painted with my broad and judgmental brush, I offer an insincere 'I'm sorry' to you as well."

That's coming in the mail, I'm sure. Someone's gotta buy stamps.

[Paul.]

...can't watch video.

[Paul.]

I mean, I won't watch video because I can't bring myself to do it.

[Rich]

See, we *are* a nation of cowards.

/Eric Holder

[Bean Counter]

Well, if he was speaking on his own behalf, it Could (but probably doesn't) mean "I sympathize with your situation and I wish it had been different." ie - commiserating, not apologizing. He still has no right to speak on my behalf.

[Rich]

"I'm sorry for this stuff."

Hey, Guys, enough of the hating on ol' Chris.

It's possible that by "this stuff" he means "all the drivel I've been uttering."

*** turns away, bites lip ***

[Hash Brown]

What is this MSNBC I keep hearing about? Do you need satellite radio to get it?

[scottstams]

I think it is a public access channel.

[Finrod]

Many people mistakenly call it a news channel.

[OldMexican]

Last night on Hardball, during a segment on Trayvon Martin, Chris Matthews apologized to his black colleagues on behalf of all white people after they discussed their experiences growing up as young black men.

Well, finally someone stepped to the plate to become the universal spokesman for all white people! You people certainly needed one, just like we have one!

/Black liberal.

[Rich]

The Reverend Chris Matthews.

[scottstams]

On behalf of all white people (including white Hispanics) I renounce Mathews' apology and want to tell them that we are celebrating because this is our "OJ Simpson" moment. In fact, if we had an endzone available we would all be spiking the football and doing some kind of cracker dance.

[SweatingGin]

Crackers don't dance.

[UnCivilServant]

Any spasmatic flailing can be called a dance.

[jasno]

Sounds like someone's been to a Grateful Dead show...

[UnCivilServant]

Yeah, it was really weird, as some of the Grateful Dead were really dead by that point, but they propped them up on stage and everything...

[scottstams]

CRAZY ASS Crackers do.

[PRX]

I apologize...for Chris Matthews being a creepy ass cracker that stalks Obama and says creepy ass shit.

[Hugh Akston]

CHRIS MATTHEWS IS NOT THE EMPEROR OF WHITE PEOPLE

[Mint Berry Crunch]

He told my dad he was.

[T]

Hell, he's not even the court jester, no matter how hard he tries.

[Nikkis enthusiastic dissent]

Is he the emperor of ice cream, by any chance? Because I could really go for some ice cream right now. Chocolate is my favorite flavor, which I assume Matthews would be down with.

[Heroic Mulatto]

His giant round head with that mop of white hair on top does make him look like a walking ice-cream cone.

But I don't think Matthews rolls his own cigars.

[Brett L]

Don't ever want to associate Matthews with concupiscence.

[Hugh Akston]

Just keep proving that you have the worst taste in everything, nicole.

[Nikkis enthusiastic dissent]

It's why I'm here.

[Pro Libertate]

Hey, if he's got all of our proxies, how about we execute him on air, to purge America of its race guilt?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

The original HuffPo article had this on the sidebar. A much more entertaining event than anything involving Matthews.

'Pink Mass' Has Made Westboro Baptist Church Founder's Mom Gay In Afterlife, Satanists Claim

"Upon completion of the pink mass ceremony, Catherine Johnston is now gay in the afterlife," notes the Satanic Temple website, which has the cheeky URL http://www.westboro-baptist.com. "Fred Phelps is obligated to believe that his mother is now gay ... [and] if beliefs are inviolable rights, nobody has the right to challenge our right to believe that Fred Phelps believes that his mother is now gay."

[General Butt Naked]

Wow, battling stupidity with stupidity, that ought to work out real well for them.

[Finrod]

As long as they're just fighting each other, I'll sit back and pop some popcorn.

[The Late P Brooks]

There are a lot of things Chrissie should be apologizing for, but I am not one of them.

Fuck you, Mister "I get giddy in His presence!"

[JWS]

You guys have this all wrong.

Now that Matthews has apologized, all black people will agree that white people feel bad about stuff and we can all move on.

See? All good now.

Thanks Chris!!!!1111 WTG!!!1111

[Banjos]

How does this work? Can I speak for an entire race, my entire sex, or only for my race and sex combined? On behalf of all Italian women, you're welcome. This is fun!

[Rich]

I claim this stinking desert on behalf of all men of German ancestry!

[Nikkis enthusiastic dissent]

Go big or go home. If you narrow things down too much, you're going to end up speaking only for yourself, after all.

[Banjos]

On behalf of the entire human race, Epi's mom is a whore.

[T]

I think I can accurately speak for grumpy, middle-aged libertarian men when I say: fuck you, Chris.

[Rich]

Ooh, T, I just felt a tingle!

[Eduard van Haalen]

"NBC News executive Val Nichola explained how he was targeted as a teenager in an op-ed for MSNBC.com titled "I Could Have Been Trayvon Martin.""

And he *would* have been, if he'd jumped the cops in question and tried to pound their heads into the floor. But he didn't...which probably helps explain how he *wasn't* Trayvon Martin. And unlike the cops in Mr. Nichola's stories, there's no evidence that Zimmerman pulled a gun on Martin and threatened his life.

And note that Val Nichola is an "NBC News executive," and Matthews is merely an NBC news personality, which almost makes it looks as if Matthews is sucking up to the boss...but perish the thought!

[Jeff]

On behalf of all white people, I apologize for Chris Matthews.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Thank you.

[Eduard van Haalen]

I'm white, and as a teenager I was mistaken for some kind of white housebreaker, but when the cops couldn't prove it (and I happened to be innocent) they left. I could have been Trayvon Martin if I'd grabbed one of the cops and pounded his head into the pavement, but because of my white privilege I didn't. Fortunate coincidence!

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I'm white

Hold on, stop right there. (invokes white privilege filter)

[Banjos]

You white men don't understand how privileged you are to not have a proclivity towards violence.

/racist progtard

[John]

Bob Dylan, yeah that Bob Dylan was mistaken for a house breaker while taking a walk while on tour a couple of years ago. Look it up.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Holy crap, you're right:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.c.....r_walking/

Except for the part where Dylan *didn't* bash the cops' heads into the pavement, it's just like the Zimmerman case...

Wait a minute, his real name is Zimmerman...spooky!

[lap83]

This article was posted on my Facebook feed:
http://everydayfeminism.com/20.....privilege/

Here's a summary:
1. Appeal to their sense of victimhood
2. Explain that privilege isn't measurable
3. Explain that they only have to pretend to feel guilty about their oppression of minorities because it hurts them too, somehow.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

After looking at it, I think it's even worse than you describe. It reads like the recruitment guide for every populist uprising that has turned into a bloodbath.

1. You're a victim too
2. There's a guy who thinks he's better than you
3. Join our crusade to rectify it

[Heroic Mulatto]

Take white Jewish privilege, for instance. White Jewish privilege is, essentially, a social construction whereby wealthy Europeans Jews wanted to make sure that they could consolidate their wealth by pitting poor people from Europe against poor Africans and Indigenous people.

White folks were made to feel better about themselves and were given paltry privileges over people of color in order to divide the white proletariat.

All that meant, though, is that the white folks got to be the lords over people of color while the wealthy whites Jews still had their boots on the necks of poor whites!

These privileges don't help us as white people nearly as much as they hurt us!

Bitch should have taken more effort to hide the source she plagiarized.

[Brett L]

Elder Zion or Mein Kampf?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Article XXVIII of the Hamas Charter, actually.

[Brett L]

I was unaware that Hamas considered the Rotary and the Lions Clubs as spy organizations.

[darius404]

The More You Know....

[Brett L]

1. I control my life more than anyone else does.
2. He's wrong
3. I don't give a shit that he's wrong.

[Outlaw]

http://isthisfeminist.tumblr.com/

Way better, I assure you.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I did learn something from the article. What the hell is Cisgender Privilege?

Following is a list of cisgender identity privileges. If you're not familiar with the term, "cisgender" means having a biological sex that matches your gender identity and expression, resulting in other people accurately perceiving your gender.

Every SNL "It's Pat" episode is now officially part of the cisgendriarchy.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

The suggested links is like the proverbial rabbit hole:

Daily Effects of White Privilege (excerpts)

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. (Unless your name is Chris Matthews)

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races. (Obviously not)

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

[UnCivilServant]

Except for #17, I've not managed these.

How can that be? I'm pretty much the archetypical white guy.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

White privilege false consciousness, obviously

[General Butt Naked]

Yeah.

My life has been an unending series of fuck ups, bad luck and poverty.

I want my goddamn privilege and I want it now!

[Tony]

This is typical Matthews awkwardness whenever the subject of racism or sexism comes up. But it's important to face the actual subject of the interview: black men, even very successful black men, experience different kinds of lives than white men. They are profiled constantly by everyone, especially the police.

Almost nobody considers himself a racist these days, but prejudice still permeates society in often subtle and unconscious ways. Experiments involving perfectly sophisticated people have demonstrated unconscious racial biases, often to the participants' horror. It's part of our cultural DNA and can only be overcome with serious concerted effort--which needs to be done, since modern racism is insidious, leading to poorer outcomes for minorities while white people don't even realize it's happening.

[lap83]

Do you mean they're profiled by the Democratic police? I would buy that.

LBJ "I'll have those n*****s voting democratic for the next 200 years"

[Heroic Mulatto]

I recently finished a book on the history of school reform. LBJ was, and I say this without any hyperbole, a monster. Did you know as a teacher he would routinely whip the living shit out of any student whom he heard speak Spanish (as Texas law mandated at the time)? Did you know that he instituted the Coleman I and II reports on "Negro Education" and when the results came back in a way that didn't support his War on Poverty efforts (i.e. the largest factor in the success of minorities in the public school system is the student's homelife and values, meaning that Head Start, free school lunch, etc. don't count for shit,) he did everything in his power to discredit Coleman? (The same thing would happen to Coleman when he published Coleman III a few decades later.)

[Heroic Mulatto]

That's true, but isn't Matthews "apologizing for all White people," as if he had the right to do so, condescending? Indeed, isn't Matthews' glibness part and parcel of the institutionalized racism that exists?

[Zeb]

I would say so. I think that the biggest thing contributing to continued race problems today is that so many people insist on seeing races as collectives rather than arbitrary groups of individuals who happen to share some characteristics.

[Tony]

Yes, he can't help himself. For weeks he's been walking on eggshells. But at least he's making an effort. That puts him well in front of, say, conservatives who insist they are colorblind but whose entire politics is based on white racial resentment. "Why can't there be a white history month?!?"

[Enough About Palin]

Can you believe this fuckstick actually entertained the idea of running for the US Senate?

[Paul.]

You know who else entertained the idea of running for the US Senate?

[General Butt Naked]

Hitler?

I'm not too good at history.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Mr. Smith?

[Entropy Void]

Brad Pitt?

[VG Zaytsev]

Fauxcohauntus?

[Finrod]

Stuart Smalley?

[Eric]

The reactions to the verdict of this trial has brought to light what idiots human beings are:

If you're a liberal or black, you think Martin was a saint, all while overlooking the fact that he assaulted Zimmerman and brought about his own justifiable homicide. Not a fucking peep about how the goddammed black community preys upon itself every day, creating a situation where Martin felt it was normal to kick the shit out of a guy for following him.

If you're conservative, you think Zimmerman is some kind of gun rights paragon, overlooking the fact that he's a fucking moron and coward who killed a 17 year old kid after stalking him, and then getting bested in a fight. He only got out of the car because his cajones were engorged by a 9mm holstered to his side.

Fucking cognitave dissonance is what is ruining this country.

[Outlaw]

You're wrong about the conservative one. I'm not a conservative, but I'm part of the "gun culture" and I saw the media and administration's bullshit as an attack on self-defense and gun laws. And guess what? I was right.

Then after the verdict came the attacks on the fifth amendment, the presumption of innocence, double jeopardy, etc.

Furthermore, Zimmerman is kind of dumb but what evidence is there to show that it was a fight? Looks more like a beating to me.

You got some projection issues, Eric.

[Paul.]

If you're conservative, you think Zimmerman is some kind of gun rights paragon, overlooking the fact that he's a fucking moron and coward who killed a 17 year old kid after stalking him, and then getting bested in a fight.

While this is true in more remote corners of the conservative sphere, the louder, noisier, boisterous voices are the left who've created a narrative they literally can't or won't back out of.

Zimmerman was no hero, he made a series of questionable decisions which led to Martin (who according to evidence) was very quick to swing a fist.

But the noisiest retard is all coming from the left.

[jasno]

Nah. Some of us just think the whole thing is sad. There aren't a lot of us though.

I sure have seen a lot of racist shit in the last few weeks. I've seen more racist propaganda(usually anti-black) posted in regular discussion forums than I have in the last 10 years. To all the white(or hispanic?) people posting that shit - no thank you. It's obvious Zimmerman was right. His cause doesn't need your racist bullshit.

[Killazontherun]

If you're conservative, Can't speak for them.

you think Zimmerman is some kind of gun rights paragon, They might, but I see him as someone who had the misfortune of having to use one.

overlooking the fact that he's a fucking moron Cooperating with cops, 911, and getting involved in formal programs, all are evidential of one not aware of increased liabilities of doing those things, so its possible.

and coward No evidence to support this one way or another. Just an ill formed opinion.

who killed a 17 year old kid after stalking him, After noticing behavior very indicative of someone who was casing the neighborhood. You know basic things like peering into windows. You should probably avoid doing that if you have no curiosity about what possessions are in the houses not belonging to you.

and then getting bested in a fight. Heh. Yeah, he did get his ass kicked.

He only got out of the car because his cajones were engorged by a 9mm holstered to his side. No one in authority, certainly not Trayvon's principal gave a damn that stolen merchandise from a break in was found in Martin's locker. Its a good thing cajones do get enlarged by the possessors welding guns from time to time because you sure as fuck can't rely on authorities to deal with crime.

[PapayaSF]

Jeebus, can we stop using the word "stalking" regarding this case? Following someone for a minute or two is not "stalking."

[Eduard van Haalen]

If "living well is the best revenge," I suspect this NBC executive ended up earning more than the foolish cops who profiled him. It would have been better if he hadn't had to face profiling because he was a young black guy, but as it happens, he seems to have overcome it. Now he's not only in a well-paid job, but he is in a position to influence public opinion (and get sucked up to by white employees).

But if he'd tried to be Trayvon Martin, and slammed his harassers' heads into the pavement (or convenience store aisle), he probably wouldn't be here today to explain himself. The head-pounding option never seems to have occurred to him, for some reason. Perhaps *because* he was a hard-working, law-abiding citizen trying successfully to make his way in America.

[Eduard van Haalen]

PS, the NBC executive is closer to being Matthews' boss than his "colleague." Check your white privilege!

[grrizzly]

The Race-Hustler-in-Chief cannot shut up.

President Obama says "Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," in his first live comments on the court case.

[Zeb]

God I fucking hate that guy. Definitely the worst president of my lifetime. I'm a little young to have been around for Nixon and I never thought I'd see Bush beaten so quickly on awfulness.

[General Butt Naked]

Agree.

I was born when Reagan was president and don't remember that. I thought Clinton was pretty bad as a teen loserdopian and hated Bush as an older, but not much wiser, libertardian. I never thought Bush would be bested in the worst president ever category so quickly, especially by a guy that was supposed to be the anti-Bush. Not that I thought Dear Leader would be great, I just didn't think anyone could be this bad.

These fucks have pushed me from non-ideological libertarianism as teen to militant anarchist in 15 years. Good job, statists.

[Tony]

Sounds like a personal problem. What is the standard we're using here? Certainly not body count, either American or foreign. Certainly not economic performance (we've yet to recover from Bush's economy). Certainly not petty scandals. I'm just curious what the criteria are.

[Paul.]

Sounds like a personal problem. What is the standard we're using here? Certainly not body count, either American or foreign.

*facepalm*

The body count argument again, and again, without any sense of irony.

Certainly not economic performance (we've yet to recover from Bush's economy).

We can't, because of economic performance.

Certainly not petty scandals. I'm just curious what the criteria are.

No, just major scandals.

[Tony]

It would be fascinating to be inside your head for 10 minutes.

Bush was a catastrophic failure on pretty much every possible front, except providing aid to Africa. Biggest attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. Most fucked up mismanaged war--based entirely on lies--since Vietnam. Initiating all the domestic spying stuff you probably care about. Torture as official US policy. A Great Depression-level economic crisis.

I won't pretend to know exactly what you'd consider the qualities of a good president, and the country is hardly in its golden age, but Obama, by any objective measure, would have to try a lot harder to be that bad.

[Finrod]

If you're putting the blame for 9/11 on Bush who was in office for eight months, with half the normal transition-to-a-new-president time, instead of Slick Willie who had eight years to do something about al Qaeda but was too interested in getting head in the Oval Office instead, then that tells me that you need to remove your head from your fourth point of contact.

[Zeb]

Obama is worse than Bush because he pretended that he was going to change some of the bad things that Bush did regarding executive power and foreign entanglements, but he just kept them or made them worse. And now he is even worse because he is actually actively engaging in the race baiting bullshit surrounding the trial in FL.
Maybe you agree with him on economic policy and healthcare, but I don't see how any decent person can think that he is doing anything good at all in the former areas. He's either an incompetent fool or actually evil. I'm inclined towards incompetence, but I have to wonder sometimes.

[Tony]

So the war based on lies, economic collapse, torture--you just forget about that or what?

[generic Brand]

No, but you seem to gloss over the fact that Obama is more than happy to continue said wars and start new ones; has furthered the economic collapse with things like the stimulus and his healthcare bill--all of which do nothing to stimulate the economy and drive up individual debt, as well as government debt; and he continues to allow torture by keeping Guantanamo and other key military prisons operational.

We're not asking you to forgive Bush... he was awful. But is it too much to ask that you see that Obama is at least as bad?

[Tony]

He's ended one war and ending the other, and his wars have been only examples of the right way to do it in comparison. If you want a pacifist president, then you must be a big Jimmy Carter fan.

The president's stated desire is to close Gitmo but he is stymied by Congress. You should know this by now.

It is too much to ask because you're positing a ridiculous false equivalence for the purpose of either making yourself feel above it all or for forgiving Bush by comparison.

[Skip]

You are so full of crap! The Iraq War ended on Bush's schedule while Obama tried to extend it.

His Afghanistan policy is shit which is why we are losing more soldiers there than in all of Bush's tenure.

His intervention in Libya was unconstitutional and resulted in that avoidable Benghazi massacre.

[Paul.]

When one finds oneself missing Bill Clinton, one realizes how far we've fallen.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

So he was/is a thief?

[UnCivilServant]

And a brawler? I guess that expanded into the "sucker punch" drone strikes.

[SIV]

Never go Full Theodore Bilbo.

[General Butt Naked]

"Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago,"

Ummm, no. I couldn't imagine president noodle throwing a punch, or ever doing anything slightly masculine.

[Chaucer]

He made Trayvon an honorary member of the Choom Gang.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Man, that's fucking disgusting behavior on Matthew's part. Setting aside the reality that if Zimmerman had been the "victim" and/or shot by the cops, he wouldn't be referred to as "white" but would be a "hispanic" victim, Matthews really has some massive chutzpah to say he's speaking for white people.

Matthews is not the emperor of white people.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

"This is typical Matthews awkwardness whenever the subject of racism or sexism comes up. But it's important to face the actual subject of the interview: black men, even very successful black men, experience different kinds of lives than white men. They are profiled constantly by everyone, especially the police."

As Heather MacDonald has exhaustively documented with actual #'s, cops stop blacks at roughly equal rates corresponding to crime VICTIMs report of the race of the offender.

Iow, yes they stop blacks disproportionately, just as they stop men disproportionately, but NOT disproportionately to the relative disparity in crime offender rate.

I've posted the links to the National Crime VICTIM Survey, but unless crime victims are lying about the race of the perp (and remember, a very high %age of crime is intra-racial iow black on black crime), the profiling argument fails.

If cops were racist, they'd also be stopping asian americans disproportionately frequently, except ... they don't. Again, look at the NCVS where asian americans are less likely to commit crimes AND less likely to be stopped by police.

Again, unless crime victims are making this all up., cops are stopping people disproportionately, because people commit crime disproportionately...

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Both Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell (black men who are race traitors according to leftists) have also commented on these disparities.

excerpt from interview with MacDonald:

An example: In New York, blacks are 50% of all persons stopped and frisked by the police, but only 25% of the population. Police critics seize on this disparity between population percentages and enforcement activity to charge the police with racism. And such a disparity would indeed be cause for concern if crime rates were evenly distributed across the population. They are not, however ? not in New York, not anywhere. In New York, in 1998, 62% of victims of violent assault identified their assailants as black, meaning that blacks were 13 times more likely to commit a violent assault as whites. Remember: these are victims identifying the criminal, not the allegedly "racist" police. It turns out that blacks in New York are actually being under stopped, compared to their rates of violent crime.

Such disparities are typical: In Arlington County, Va., blacks are 10% of the population, but commit 70% of all robberies. In Los Angeles, blacks committed 41% of all robberies in 2001, according to victims' descriptions, though they constitute only 11% of the city's population. Robbery victims in Los Angeles named whites, who make up 30% of the population, 4% of the time.

[Zeb]

Good points. But I think that the stop and frisk in NY is not a great example. When someone reports and assault or robbery or whatever and says that the perpetrator was of some particular race, of course police are going to look for people of that race when looking for suspects. But if they are not investigating a particular crime with a particular suspect profile, giving more scrutiny to a particular race is not appropriate, as seems to be the case with stop and frisk in NY. No one should be stopped and frisked if there is no specific reason to suspect that individual.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Imo, New York is an AWFUL example since their stop and frisk program is blatantly unconstitutional.

But in the nation as a whole you would expect if cops were NOT racist, that they would disproportionately stop different demographic groups because those groups are disproportionately committing crime, which means it's reasonable that they would disproportionately present cops with reasonably suspicion to stop them.

I've long railed against NYPD stop and frisk program, though. It's awful

[jasno]

Yeah, the majority of black people, who aren't criminals, should have to put up with demoralizing searches and extra scrutiny. Hell, they should be thankful for it! That makes complete sense.

[Calidissident]

Stop and frisk is a terrible example because it doesn't involve stopping people reasonably believed to have possibly committed a crime. Black (and Hispanic) men stopped under the program are actually less likely to be carrying guns or drugs than white guys, and for all groups, the numbers are so low that there's obviously no real standard of evidence for these stops. If you wanna argue that racial profiling (as a stand alone tool, not working in conjunction with other evidence) is justified, then go ahead make the argument. But don't try and claim it isn't racist.

[Floridian]

Dunphy,
Racism is not necessarily equally applied. You can be racist against blacks but not Asians. Take your pick of any two groups and they will have different stereotypes. Some stereotypes might be positive and others negative. I personally grew up where I never met a Jew. I never heard any animosity towards Jews because they were not part of the community. The first time I heard Jew bag was from a Jewish girl I met in college. I had to ask her to explain what that was.

[General Butt Naked]

What the hell is "Jew bag"?

I've never heard that and have been around plenty of Jewish people.

[Floridian]

This girl was in nursing school and she was dating Jewish Doctors because that is what her mom wanted. She said the last guy was a Jew Bag. I asked for the explanation and she said all the typical stereotypes like being cheap and whining a lot. I guess whatever negative stereotype you have about Jews applies to Jew bag.

[Eduard van Haalen]

According to *South Park,* it's a bag of gold every Jewish person has around their neck.

[Floridian]

Another time I was riding with someone in south Florida and we got cut of by a girl. The driver said stupid JAP and I said she looked white to me. They had to explain JAP stands for Jewish American princess.

[General Butt Naked]

I've heard that one before and the Italian counterpart.

[jasno]

If cops were racist, they'd also be stopping asian americans disproportionately frequently

This... this is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on HnR. I feel like I just watched history take place. Do we have some sort of hall of fame for this shit?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

yawn. troll-o-meter:.01

asian americans are amongst the LEAST likely demographic groups to commit crimes. They are also stopped less often than their proportion of a population.

duh

[Calidissident]

And the point goes sailing over your head

[VG Zaytsev]

No, the point goes over your head.

If cops were racists, they'd be suspicious of and stop minorities for being minorities irrespective of any correlation with crime. Something that actually used to happen to asians in the 30s, 40s & 50s.

[darius404]

No, you're being retarded. That cops are acting racist toward blacks in no way means they have to act racist towards asians.

*WOOOOSH* is pretty accurate.

[Tony]

Sounds like a recipe for a vicious cycle--I think Obama addressed this exact argument in his remarks today.

Black people are also disproportionately the victims of crime, especially violent crime. Do we have a proportionately heavier police concern for potential victimization of black people?

And as a libertarian you should well understand drug war statistics and the fact that black people are prosecuted at much higher rates for drug crimes despite not committing them in higher rates than whites.

I didn't mention in my original post that the subtle, insidious racism that still affects all of society is not absent in black people--they can and do profile other black people just the same, as studies have shown.

[Auric Demonocles]

Feeney should apologize on behave of all white people for skipping the alt-text.

[lap83]

How about, "Now they'll have to be my friends!"

[Eduard van Haalen]

Here's the only thing for which I, as a white person, feel the need to apologize:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=149jGeIlx3I

[The vermin in the media]

Oh for crying out loud. Matthews is the concern trolliest concern troll in the history of concern trolling. This jackass is like Weigel times a hundred.

[creech]

"Almost nobody considers himself a racist these days, but prejudice still permeates society in often subtle and unconscious ways... can only be overcome with serious concerted effort--which needs to be done, since modern racism is insidious, leading to poorer outcomes for minorities while white people don't even realize it's happening."

We couldn't operate in any kind of society without prejudice. We all need to pre-judge based on prior experience or we'd all be wasting serious time and energy. If Billy Bob's BBQ serves me crappy food a couple of times, I'm going to avoid it, maybe even bad-mouth it, rather than try it again when I run into a different Billy
Bob franchise in another city. If "Rev." Jackson can be afraid of being followed by a group of black guys, why is it wrong for a white
person to be similarly apprehensive? Is it because the media feeds one a daily diet of black criminals committing violence, shooting little girls on their doorstep or nerdy black kids trying to get an education? We'd all like to judge each individual as he comes along and treat him or her as he deserves to be treated, but it is far easier to take shortcuts when a particular ethnic group, or cultural group, or crappy restaurant is disproportionately handing out bad experiences. Yes, it will take a "serious concerted effort" and it has to start by focusing on improving the proportionality.

[Killazontherun]

Florida Rep. Corrine Brown going after Ice Bitch Angela Correy for damn good reasons.

http://www.usnews.com/news/art.....gela-corey

Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., is among Alexander's most vocal supporters. She's also a fierce critic of State Attorney Angela Corey, the elected prosecutor who presided over both cases.

"I do know that she has shown absolutely no compassion," Brown told U.S. News. "Where was the common sense? I hate to say this, but you wouldn't expect this from a female."

On July 31, 2010, Alexander ? who had given birth days before ? fired what she describes as a warning shot during a fight with her husband. Two children were inside the Jacksonville home when she pulled the trigger, but no one was harmed.

I hope she is so successful in destroying Corey's career that in a few years we'll be reading a story where she is forced to sign up for welfare after her career implodes.

[VG Zaytsev]

Dream on.

Proglodytes need people like her in government.

[Tom]

On behalf of sensible television viewers, I'd like to apologize to Chris Matthews for MSNBC's low television ratings. It's not their fault they find Comedy Central much funnier.

[Nixonfan]

In NYC, black cab drivers won't stop for blacks. Racism?