Obamacare

Democrats in Congress Are Increasingly Worried About Obamacare

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Whitehouse.gov

Last week The New York Times noted that Democrats on Capitol Hill were increasingly concerned about the rollout of Obamacare. The Hill follows up with a report today noting that "anxious Democrats fear a botched implementation of ObamaCare could dash their hopes of controlling the House and Senate for President Obama's last two years in office."

Democrats in Congress aren't likely to be particularly reassured by the White House's response to these concerns. At a press conference yesterday, President Obama acknowledged that implementing the law would be "a big undertaking," that states opting out of the exchange creation "puts more of a burden on us," and that, no matter what, there were bound to be "glitches and bumps" along the way. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius recently admitted that premiums would rise for some under the law.

If voters soured on Democrats because of implementation troubles, it probably wouldn't be the first time the health law cost Democrats politically. Last year, a team of political scientists found that voting for the law may have cost Democrats control of the House in 2010. And public perception of the law isn't any stronger right now: Just 35 percent of the public has a favorable opinion of the law, according to the most recent Kaiser Health Tracking poll.

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  1. We had to pass it to find out what’s in it. And we’re just now getting to the really good stuff!

    1. I clicked on this article solely for the purpose of making that comment. Damn you!

      1. Same thing happened to me today with the article about the Dem congress critter talking about Helium. I wanted to make a snarky remark about Islands tipping over, but at least 2 posters beat me to it.

  2. Democrats in Congress Are Increasingly Worried About Obamacare

    HaHAHAHAHahah…ahahahahahahahahahH.. ..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA?????Eleventy….
    ..Ha….HAHAHAHAHA..HAhhhhhhaaaaaaah.. ..ahahahahahahahaha…hahahah..HAHAHAHAHA.

    Whew!

    PS: CHRISTFAG!!!!

    1. Welcome to the club, Democrats in Congress.

      What’s great is, the consequences they fear are not of a devastated health care system, but the failure to gain more power.

      1. Exactly this. They could care less how much this fucks up healthcare.

        They only want to further strengthen their oligarchy so they can continue unabated with their cronyism orgy.

        If there really is a Hell, it is made specifically for these corruptocrats.

        1. totally hits the point. It’s all about the potential impact on their political power, not our lives. Bastards.

          1. Of course, if we’d wield our power to scare them like this more consistently, we’d not be in such a mess, perhaps.

            1. Of course, if everyone in the USA was as politically educated as the average H&R poster, you could expect to see an angry mob at the capital building tomorrow, toting bags of feathers and buckets of hot tar.

              Then back to reality, a majority of Americans are totally ignorant about politics. Ask them who won the last time on American Idol, they can answer that, but ask them who their senator is, you would be lucky to break 30%.

              1. Unfortunately, too many are also economically ignorant. They believe the bastards when they tell them this is a healthcare fix.

        2. oligarchy

          oligarhy

          sorry, pet peeve

          1. WTF is an oligarhy?

  3. If voters soured on Democrats because of implementation troubles, it probably wouldn’t be the first time the health law cost Democrats politically. Last year, a team of political scientists found that voting for the law may have cost Democrats control of the House in 2010.

    I suspect most Democrats don’t care, the What’s The Point of Having Power If You Don’t Ram Your Pet Legislature Thru attitude.

    1. It might be worth following up on the ones that lost their seats for voting for Obamacare. See where they landed, in non-profits, lobbying firms, etc.

      Someone pointed out a while back that the dems today are more than willing to lose their elections while ramming something through, as they’ll get taken care of with the next job for being loyal.

      1. Someone pointed out a while back that the dems today are more than willing to lose their elections while ramming something through, as they’ll get taken care of with the next job for being loyal.

        Yeah that was me. The sheer amount of federal money going around means there will always be a soft landing spot. Look, you had 50 Congresscritters kicked out, right? Even assuming a 20 man staff for all of them, you’re now looking at a thousand jobs.

        You don’t think there were a thousand jobs in the government, in government funded NGOs, in academia (also government funded), in liberal think tanks? These people landed soft, they traded their Capitol badges in for some other badge.

        The reason the Democrats are successful and the Republicans are not is that Democrats are true believers. They will make the sacrifice play to advance the cause of socialism.

        1. Up to a point. Don’t forget that in life after Congress, the former legislator has lost the power and perquisites that go with being one of the rulers. He is now only a jobholder, however well paid.

          The fear of loss of status will make many politicians want to retain their positions.

          Likely, Congressional wives resent the demotion that comes with un-election and put considerable pressure on hubby to stay on as well. One expects some bitter conversations over the breakfast table when a Solon sacrificed his career for something like Obamacare.

      2. Which is one of the reasons (among a host of others) that we need trust reform.

    2. They care. You have to remember politics is life to these people. Losing the House costs hundreds of Dem hacks their jobs. That is what these people care about. Nothing is worse to them than the thought of leaving Washington or not being in power. Losing the House was devastating.

      1. You have to remember politics is life to these people.

        In a sane and just world right now Bart Stupak is in a wooden packing crate dressed in a leather gimp suit.

        So maybe there is life after politics.

        1. it’s not Stupak, per se, it’s the dogwashsers on his staff and the staffs of the others no longer there. There is always a soft place to land for deposed or retired Congressmen. Spots for the staff are tougher to come by.

          1. Spots for the staff are tougher to come by.

            …and I weep for them all Wareagle!

            /sarc

        2. First, Stupak seems to have barely above animal level intelligence. Second, I am quite sure he is some hugely paid do nothing job right now as a thank you for his support to the cause.

          And yeah they worried they would lose some seats in 2010. But they honestly believed they would get them back in 2012 or 14 at the latest. Now it is looking like they won’t. And they are starting to panic as that reality is setting in.

          1. Don’t cry for Stupak.

            Former U.S. Congressman Bart Stupak is a partner in Venable’s Legislative and Government Affairs group. As Congressman to Michigan’s First Congressional District for 18 years, Mr. Stupak developed a deep understanding of issues that directly affected his constituents, including matters related to energy, healthcare, telecommunications and international trade. As an attorney at Venable, he is in a unique position to provide clients with well-informed, extensive counsel that is based on a thorough knowledge of these industries and related legislation.

    3. Last year, a team of political scientists found that voting for the law may have cost Democrats control of the House in 2010.

      That takes a crack team of scientists to figure that one out.

  4. See, this is why rumors the GOP’s demise have been greatly exaggerated. This shit storm might cost the Dems the Senate and will certainly hamstring whomever they nominate in 2016, be it Biden or Hillary.

    1. Between this and the gun control bender, I would be very surprised if they don’t lose the Senate. Long term, the question is will the Dems and their media enablers be able to blame this on Republicans and are the Republicans dumb enough to let them do it. That is certainly a possibility but probably not until after 2014.

      1. Obamacare would have worked, if not for that pesky Republican sequester.

      2. ….the question is will the Dems and their media enablers be able to blame this on Republicans

        Well as of yesterday night Drudge was reporting a survey showing the 42% of the population doesn’t even know that it’s law yet. I think TEAM BLUE will squeak through…the useless fuckwits!

        PS: CHRISTFAG

        1. I saw that. I swear to God half the people who voted for Obama probably don’t even know he is a Democrat. The population is truly brain dead. The question is are the sentient enough to notice when their health insurance gets canceled or the premiums double if it doesn’t. It is a close call.

          1. The question is are the sentient enough to notice when their health insurance gets canceled or the premiums double if it doesn’t.,/i

            Ah yes…Donna Brazile syndrome…..tragic!

          2. I remember in 2006 or 7 that there was a huge percentage of people that did not know what year the September 11th attacks took place. I was talking about this to someone at my old synagogue, and he looked at me with a deer in the headlights look. He didn’t know!

          3. Well, they will notice. They’ll just think it’s because “those damned health insurers are just a bunch of meanies!!!” Yes, this really is how they think.

      3. I would be very surprised if they don’t lose the Senate.

        Its just not going to happen. November wasn’t that long ago, and there were already numerous, visible cracks in the design and implementation of the ACA.

        Whatever advantage the GOP has now its only from the gun confiscation antics, but I dont think that’s going to be enough to hand them the senate. Also, I’m sure they’ll do something to fuck up their base turning out anyways.

        1. November wasn’t that long ago, and there were already numerous, visible cracks in the design and implementation of the ACA.

          That no one knew about because it wasn’t covered. No one’s insurance rates had gone up in November. November was all about free birth control and saving big bird. Now maybe in a bunch of local races they can manage to change the subject to various KULTURE WAR bullshit and squeak by. But unless they can do that, they are doomed.

          1. Its barely being covered now and it sure as hell won’t be covered next year. And by mid to late 2014, the Dems will have some other shiny distraction for the voting populace.

            1. You don’t need to read the New York Times to know you are now working part time and your insurance premiums just doubled. There will be no way to cover this us.

              1. Unless it’s possible for HHS to delay implementation to 2015 (and I can’t imagine it’s not, given how much of an empty shell PPACA is).

              2. Well, yeah. But the Democrats and their media allies can tell you that you’re working part time because your boss and the health insurer are just a bunch of big old meanies!

        2. People will notice when they go on the exchange this fall, and it’s messed up and they can’t buy insurance. They’ll also notice that the cost is really friggin high, especially if they haven’t been insured recently or had a nice employer share until recently.

      4. Yeah, seriously. This could be a political albatross around the Dems neck for a generation if done right.

        Thank god for them that they are fighting against the Republicans, eh?

        1. Oh, yes. Notice how the Republicans in 2012 nominated the only guy in their entire primary field who couldn’t hammer Obama on PPACA, because he passed the thing at the state level?

          Dumbasses.

          1. He was also the only guy in the Final Three who independents didn’t despise.

            Which other people in the primary field do you think beat Obama in the general, given how things played out with Sandy and Akin etc.? I’ll spot you Rick Perry as a maybe just because he’s softer on immigration. But beyond that I don’t see any of the others having a ghost of a chance beating BO.

            1. Live example of why the Democrats are secure, our own local Republican dumbass, of the give-the-voters-an-echo school.

              The media is against the Republicans? That’s a known condition. If you didn’t have a plan to win with “Akin” bullshit, you didn’t have a plan to win.

              So, first, you ignore the vague impressions the goddamn media give the not-actually-paying-attention independents in the primaries. You pick someone who can hammer at Obama’s single greatest vulnerability, you nominate him, and then you have him spend all summer hammering at that constantly.

              You then tie in his performance on everything else to that narrative. Stupid counterproductive bureaucratic wastes of money that hurt Americans grows from the “Obamacare” root to make a general attack on his spending. Now, every time Obama speaks to defend the stimulus, he’s got the Obamacare albatross around his neck, coloring people’s impressions.

              When Benghazi comes along, it’s another example of Obama not being cut out to lead. When Sandy hits, the campaign points out each and every mistake, screwup, and misfire (and there’s always such), building on the same theme the whole campaign has been about.

              And then any damn Republican nominated, even a worthless sack of Santorum, does better than Romney’s share of the vote.

            2. Romney didn’t either. Nobody liked him from the beginning, everybody just settled on him because he was the chosen one from the beginning of the campaign.

      5. “… and are the Republicans dumb enough to let them do it.”

        That’s a trick question, right? Remember, there’s nothing in the known universe that the Republican party is not stupid enough to let the Democrats get away with. And I say this as a registered Republican.

    2. I think there is a relationship between the mask-slipping/media shilling and the increasing stupidity of TEAM BLUE. TEAM BLUE wants to ram through, for instance, Obamacare. Much of the media wants this, so shills hard. TEAM BLUE starts to believe its own propaganda, pushes harder, gets it rammed through. The media then shills for how it’s going to be wonderful. TEAM BLUE believes this. Then it starts to be undeniable that it’s going to be a disaster. TEAM BLUE realizes this could be a real election problem, and so does the media. So the media shills even harder and mask-slips more in order to cover for TEAM BLUE. This enables TEAM BLUE to be even stupider as they believe their own propaganda.

      It’s shills all the way down, and it’s in a feedback loop.

      1. Sometimes owning the media works against them. Since no one is ever allowed to utter so much as a word against the party line, once the stampede gets going there is nothing to stop it. So it will happily charge off the cliff thinking it is doing the right thing. The phenomena you describe is the primary reason there is still a Republican Party.

        1. Agreed, but it’s exponentially ramping up, and I figure there has to be a breaking point. I’m just not sure what that will be. Will the media become such obvious shills that it works against them? Probably not, they’ll probably just get tuned out. However, TEAM BLUE will almost assuredly go too far–they may have with Obamacare–the only question is, when is “too far” reached?

          1. TEAM BLUE will almost assuredly go too far

            I’ve been saying this for a while now. Their arrogance level is off the charts. But I am very concerned about the intelligence level of the voters. As long as they can keep the free shit train on the tracks, I am afraid that we are totally fucked.

            1. Honestly, I’m not sure the problem is necessarily voters. Sure, you get a lot of people who just don’t pay attention at all. But, most voters aren’t stupid. They’re just horribly under-informed. I mean, honestly, outside of Reason and other sources that would generally be regarded as “fringe”, when was the last time you’ve heard a serious discussion in the media about the role of government policy in creating the world we live in beyond first order effects?

        2. And the thing is that they don’t understand how much of the country, even people who pull the lever for Democrats, think that they are nuts.

          I mean, here in Albuquerque, its a Dem town, but the Dems here feel very disconnected from the Dems on the coasts or in DC. Here I think it is mostly a result of poverty (because seriously, the state is a giant dessert/sage brush thing. Its good for sheep farming and having no people so lots of places to blow the fuck up) (Also, Midwest, at some point, the Sun Belt is coming for your water. And we are going to take it you water greedy bastards)

          1. Diverting/pipelining large quantities of water from the Great Lakes area (which I assume you mean by the Midwest, since the plains are fairly dry themselves) to the southwest would be an infrastructure undertaking the likes of which have never been seen in human history. With plenty of stuff for Cheesehead Terrorists to blow up.

          2. Great place to build a nuclear waste repository. It will be the gift that will keep on giving.

            Utilities will continue to produce the spent fuel and need to store it there. And then, in the future when we get our nuclear game in gear and build the reactors that can run on that spent fuel, that repository will be the Saudi Arabia of North America (energy wise).

  5. Hey, just ask Nancy! She knows what’s in it now that it’s passed.

  6. On a related note, I just got a letter from my primary care physician. It explicitly states that he is going concierge because of Obamacare, and will no longer take medicare patients. He is a good doctor, so I am going to cough up the $1500 a year to stay part of his practice.

    I called the office to get more details, and they told me that 3 other doctors in the same medical group are doing the same thing.

    Yay Obamacare!

    1. Yep, this is happening a lot in my area.

      I posted about it here a while back in another thread.

      I wanted to get my wife a primary care physician. So everywhere I called was either not taking new patients, had went concierge with a min $1600 membership fee, per year, or the wait was 1 month +, for a new patient.

      It’s going to get much worse, on many levels. This is only the beginning. Soon, we all get to find out what is in it, and most of us are not going to like it.

    2. Your doctor just wants to undermine the President. I hope you’ll report him.

    3. Good on him.

      Meanwhile, medical residencies will remain capped, you know for… to maintain quality and patient safety.

      Then on the other hand, the ACA will require NPs and APNs to pick up some of the slack for the doctor’s, which will do far worse than any increase in residencies would do for safety and quality.

      The AMA cartel pisses me off so much.

      1. The AMA does not control the number of residency slots in any direct way. They do certify that your residency meets certain criteria (50% real stuff like “are there enough patients to train a doctor”, and 50% educrat BS). But they are more than willing to certify more slots than the government is willing to pay for — my hospital for example is certified for 26 more residency slots than the government is paying for but so far they are willing to eat the costs. However as the RRC is cracking down on the amount of useful work a resident can do, the hospital may be rethinking that and go with NPs/PAs.

        1. “However as the RRC is cracking down on the amount of useful work a resident can do, the hospital may be rethinking that and go with NPs/PAs.”

          I think the better way to say that would be that the RRC is cracking down on the amount of ridiculously cheap/free work that residents can do. I figured up once when I was an intern that if you divided my yearly salary by the hours I put in weekly (generally anywhere from 70-90), figuring for the overtime pay everyone else gets, I pretty much made minimum wage. A midlevel provider costs the hospital way more, which is why it’s attractive to them to have residents. As the RRC works to make residents more learners than essentially indentured servants, that may change.

    4. Here’s my strategy on that. Maybe not ideal.

      But, if you need to see a doctor for a cold, or you just broke your foot, you can just walk into one of the quick care places.

      If you need a specialist and have PPO insurance, you don’t need a referral, so that is my way around it, for now.

      1. My parents did the same thing until they were in their 60’s. If you have a PPO and don’t have any medical conditions that require regular maintenance and treatment, there isn’t a huge need for primary care…

  7. Are they really so delusional that they ever thought they were going to retake the House in an off year of a second Presidential Term? You didn’t retake the House with the Black Jesus on the top of the ballot and all of the cheating and stops pulled out but you though you were going to do so in an off year when none of those things were true?

    1. they think gun control is a winner.

      1. I think we can all agree that we should have a few sensible reductions in Democratic House and Senate seats, for the safety of our children.

        1. I think we can all agree that we should have a few sensible reductions in Democratic House and Senate seats, for the safety of our children

          Can we get a package deal with that, and add one less McCain and one less Graham?

      2. Well, 90% of Americans demand it!

        1. 90% of Americans demand what they want!

  8. Make no mistake, democrats are not worried about Obamacare because it might be repealed. They’re worried about finding the right way to implement it just poorly enough that voters will demand a single-payer system instead.

    1. You give them way too much credit. They are shitting their pants right now. They had no idea what they were doing and no idea what they actually passed. They voted for this thing on blind faith and the need to pass something to save the Black Jesus’ sorry ass in 2012. Now they are panicking trying to figure out how to avoid getting blamed.

      1. Single payer was their goal from the beginning. Obamacare was just a way to get a foot in the door. It didn’t matter that it was poorly thought out and no one knew what was in the bill. It was a step on the path.

        1. To believe that you would have to believe that they are smart enough to have a goal. Is single payer the goal of a lot of Dem hacks? Sure. But actual Dem politicians are mostly living day to day and poll to poll. These people have no goals beyond staying in power and stealing.

          Do you honestly think someone like Bachus or Carnahan or Landreu are deep enough thinkers to play the long game of passing a failed bill in hopes of getting single payer? Yeah right. You might as well believe the trialateral commission runs things.

          1. To believe that you would have to believe that they are smart enough to have a goal

            of course, they have a goal – more control of the plebes, more govt intrusion in our lives. Whether it’s this or single-payer is separating pepper from fly shit.

            Health care was a Dem holy grail for so long they didn’t care what passed so long as something did that they could take credit for. If that means this as a step toward single-payer, that’s what it means.

          2. They’re smart enough to have a goal. But like any mob, they’re stumbling and lurching towards it rather than going after it purposefully. They wanted single payer, they compromised on Obamacare, and got themselves so excited about it that it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now they’re upset AT THE PUBLIC for voting out some of their fellow travelers and threatening to vote out some more. And though they’re not thinking about the long term, these assholes are going to get single payer into law sooner or later, and stuff their cronies with goodies in the meantime. I don’t think they’re “smart enough” to plan it this way, so much as they’re dedicated enough to keep pushing against a pathetically weak opposition.

        2. Lots of folks think that way. I don’t. I think it was all about creating a huge new bureaucracy(more cronyism and loyal government employees) and getting more control over peoples lives.

          1. Exactly. Obama is not a particularly bright or complex guy. Every thing he does is done with the single goal of rewarding his supporters with jobs and patronage and punishing his opponents.

        3. Sorry, your average politician isn’t that visionary. They were operating under the simple “free stuff = votes” model. Maybe the ideologues who come up with these schemes are hoping for single payer, but they’re not the ones in office.

  9. a botched implementation of ObamaCare

    By which they mean implementing the law as written.

  10. People are going to be pissed when their rates skyrocket and they find out that they either don’t qualify for subsidies or the subsidies don’t cover nearly as much as the rate increase.

    It’s never a good idea to pass a massive piece of social engineering in the five minutes when the public is too angry at the other party to pay attention to what you’re doing.

    1. They assumed it was going to be popular like the great society entitlements. I said from the beginning, and you can look up my posts here if you don’t believe me, that that was complete horseshit. All of the rightwing concern trolls who were so convinced this was going to produce a permanent Dem majority totally missed the point. The great society entitlements handed out checks. Sure they were popular because millions of people got a check and benefited from them. Obamacare is nothing like that. No one or very few are getting a check. Rather than sending checks, it was obvious that it was going to directly and adversely affect a big majority of the country. And it is not and never will be anything but loathed as a result.

      1. The crazy thing is that would have been really popular was McCain’s proposed vouchers for families who couldn’t afford insurance to buy in, because that WOULD be sending out checks.

      2. All this assumes a meaningful tying of cause and effect. Sorry, I don’t think that’s at all guaranteed. If I’m a smart, evil Democrat, my response isn’t going to be to acknowledge the negative consequences of my policies. No, my response is going to be to those consequences as if they have nothing to do with my policies. And, yes, I can count on the media to back me up on that. Hence, the premium hikes aren’t because I’ve created a captive market and demanded that they all buy a fairly extensive plan. They’re because “those greedy insurers just want to stick it to the little guy!” The fact that the subsidies don’t cover all that much isn’t just a bow to fiscal reality or higher subsidies will only drive up prices more. It’s because “those mean old Republicans don’t want to pay for a decent subsidy because they’re trying to scrimp to avoid making the rich pay their fair share!” Now, if the Republican party had the collective intelligence of a five-year-old with Downs Syndrome, they’d be able to easily refute this. But, I think we both know that means they’ll go on defense or try to compromise.

    2. It’s never a good idea to pass a massive piece of social engineering in the five minutes when the public is too angry at the other party to pay attention to what you’re doing.

      Isn’t that the best time to ram through your ill-thought out legislation?

      1. Ok, perhaps it is exactly when you want to ram through something that you expect will be popular later. I’m liking John’s argument that this isn’t the sort of thing that gets more popular over time.

        People are going to HATE it when the mandate kicks in. They might like subsidies, but the subsidies aren’t nearly generous enough to be the free shit level of entitlement invincibility that SS and Medicare represent.

    3. I can tell you this, and of course, you probably already know since there was an article about it here.

      But, living in MD, where we are embracing the law with open arms, rates are going to go up anywhere from 150% to 300% for young healthy guys under 30. Can you say penaltax? Except for guys in that category that work for companies that require them to carry insurance. They are going to get royally screwed.

      1. I’m not sure how the law’s community rating provisions work with respect to employer based plans. Are employer plans exempt from community rating? It’s possible that employer plans will continue to be priced according to group risk because there is no one age group that employee fit under.
        It could just be people in the individual market who are going to get hosed.

        That would be ironic since the laws supporters were complaining that the individual market was fucked up to begin with. ObamaCare is just going to fuck up the individual market that much more.

    4. “People are going to be pissed when their rates skyrocket and they find out that they either don’t qualify for subsidies or the subsidies don’t cover nearly as much as the rate increase.”
      Again, that assumes that they put together cause and effect If every day they’re being told “it’s because your insurer is a big old meanie!” and “well, then we should increase the budget for subsidies!” a lot of people will buy that.

  11. Alt alt-text:

    Unholy trinity.

  12. Dems in forums sometimes come up with, “If the Republicans want to complain they should at least propose improvements to strengthen the law.” Well, they’ve tried to repeal it numerous times, so there’s that.

  13. Rorschach’s Journal. October 12th, 2014: Human carcass in alley this morning, denied by the IPAB. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their higher rates and worse coverage will foam up about their waists and all the Democrats and progressives will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.”

  14. While I certainly enjoy watching any bumps in the road in regards to the ACA/Obamacare, I really still see this as political gamesmanship.

    The Democrats, despite the glaring technical problems with the law, still have a clear line on blaming Republicans for any failures.

    Reason reported on Baucas’ term of ‘train wreck’, but if you read between the lines, he was referring to the issues of getting exchanges up and running, and the exchanges are getting the most resistance from Red States/Republican governors– a point that Obama expressly called out during his recent press conference. I really don’t see any near-term logic-based victory in the argument that Obamacare sucks on its built-in features (which it does), as opposed to the resistance it’s getting from Republican lawmakers.

    1. it’s going to suck even for those who have nothing to do with the exchanges.

      1. I know this, you know this, but does the Media care? Isn’t it easier to file a story about Republican obstructionism than write a long, complex multi-part series which contain concepts such as moral hazard, demand-pricing, forced coverage mandates, perverted incentives and the inherent inefficiency of centralized market controls?

        Oh wait, the Media don’t believe those things even exist. So yeah, Republican obstructionism all the way down.

        1. Maybe. But I doubt it. I can’t think of another instance where a party in power managed to push off the failure of one its programs because of the other side’s obstructionism. People don’t think that way. They hold the people in power responsible for their programs working. Did Bill Clinton get a pass in 1994 for Republican obstructionism of Hillarycare? Did he get re-elected because of things he didn’t pass or because of the things he worked with the Congress to get passed?

          Anything is possible. But if the Democrats own this. Trying to escape blame by claiming that it would have been great if only the Republicans had let them do more is going to be very difficult. Such a trick has never been pulled off in the past. Doing so would be like the Republicans winning in 2008 claiming that the only reason there was a financial collapse was because obstructionist Democrats wouldn’t let them fix the problem. I know the Dems own the media and all. But I don’t think so.

          1. Did Bill Clinton get a pass in 1994 for Republican obstructionism of Hillarycare?

            Yes, he was re-elected in ’96.

            Did he get re-elected because of things he didn’t pass or because of the things he worked with the Congress to get passed?

            He got re-elected because he was a popular president during relatively good economic times.

            The fog of older age is beginning to take hold of my waning faculties, but if my memory serves me, Clinton took too long to try to pass healthcare reform.

            Obama transforms the world’s largest healthcare system in what, four weeks?

            Clinton actually attempted to create a comprehensive system (flawed as it was) but well-thought and laid out before passing it to find out what was in it.

            The Obamacare Congress had the surety of an Obama cult-of-personality-mandate, so there was no need for lengthy debate.

          2. The Democrats have great faith in the stupidity of the voters. Sadly, I can’t say that faith is unwarranted.

            The Dems have went completely unhinged. The mask is not only slipped, but it’s nearly completely off. Their current level of arrogance is really quite something to behold.

            1. its not so much reliance on stupidity. as reagan said, its not ignorance that drives liberals = its belief in things that arent so

          3. Yes. “My rates went up because the Republicans blocked the exchanges” is not a logical path people are going to follow.

            1. No, but “My rates went up because the greedy insurance companies want to rake poor people over the coals” unfortunately is.

          4. Again, though, this assumes that the consequences will be tied to the program. The Democrats and the media will be bound and determined to make sure this doesn’t happen.

        2. I fail to see how they will spin the rate increases as the Republicans fault.

          1. The same way they see the currently expensive healthcare as having NOTHING, but nothing to do with existing regulation.

            Or the same way everyone from kooks all the way up to serious journalists at NPR associate the Kochs with everything evil in the world.

            I’m digging my heels in.

            I was right about Romney getting shellacked at the poles, I’m right about Obama successfully blaming Obamacare on republicans.

            Don’t underestimate the power of the Obama cult. You underestimate it at your peril.

            1. Nyuk, shellacked at the poles… edit function, Reason!

          2. They don’t have to blame it on Republicans. They can blame it on doctors or insurance companies or employers. Then the Republicans, being the stupid party, will either try to defend against more socialism without addressing the fact that this socialism caused the problem or will compromise on the marginal socialism.

    2. “I really don’t see any near-term logic-based victory in the argument that Obamacare sucks on its built-in features (which it does), as opposed to the resistance it’s getting from Republican lawmakers”

      The Democrats will certainly try to spin it as all being the fault of Republican obstructionism and they can count on their steno pool lackeys in the media to help them try.

      As for any ACTUAL logic in their finger pointing – there isn’t any.

      They enacted the legislation without any GOP help and they own it all.

      The refusal of red states to help the Dems blow more holes in the bottom of a ship that was never seaworthy to start with doesn’t make any of it the fault of the GOP.

    3. Yes, generally, who gives a fuck about how well the exchanges are implemented. That is the least of the laws problems.

      The real problem is going to be the number of people who are going to get sticker shock at the rate increases they will experience.

      And the budgetary impact of the subsidies.

      1. If people log onto exchanges and can’t buy insurance because they’re all messed up, they’re going notice.

        1. Democrats should PRAY people can’t log into the exchanges. That way they won’t be able to find out what they are going to be forced to pay for insurance.

          If teh exchanges don’t work they can blame the Republicans. If they work, they OWN the rate shock.

    4. So, they write a law allowing people to opt out, and then it becomes a train wreck because people opt out, and that’s the fault of the people opting out?

  15. OT

    Just went back to check the earlier thread…

    Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops

    Where Dunphy got skewered for being such a braggart. Well he just can’t help himself.

    This story came out right before I applied for my current job, so I hedged and purposefully answered a few questions incorrectly on the IQ test.

    One of the first things the psych said during the interview was “nice IQ score…one of the highest we’ve seen”. And like I said, I did answer a few wrong on purpose.

    1. /facepalm x Eleventy billion

      When I started coming to this site, I was a bit easy on Dunphy. I don’t have the same level of hatred of cops that most here do, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt… Lesson learned.

      1. He has, to me, increasingly come off as self-important.

  16. It’s almost as if they should have sat down, read the thing, and thought it all through instead of calling everybody who disagreed with them Poor-Hating, War-on-Women Waging Racists.

    “”anxious Democrats fear a botched implementation of ObamaCare could dash their hopes of controlling the House and Senate for President Obama’s last two years in office.””

    If history teaches us anything, they’ll be struggling enough after their orgy of gun grabbing legislation.
    Leftists make shitty poker players because they always show their hand too early. They rode off this post-election delusion that they won by some by some (imaginary) gargantuan margin and thereby assumed that the majority of Americans were on their hands and knees begging for tax hikes, killdrones and the continued eradication of their civil liberties by a government which no longer felt the need to mask their intentions.

    But I’m not complaining, the Blueshirts seem to have gotten themselves wrapped up in a Nixon conundrum whereby the most effective way to truly expose the president for the petty tyrant he is was to re-elect him. Had Obama lost, they’d have spent the rest of eternity blaming everything from rich people to free speech to racism for his loss. It would have been a perpetual testament to their “obstructionism” narrative, much in the way they try to claim the recession was caused by DEregulation. Now they’ll have to spend that same time continuing to scapegoate Bush for everything Obama’s done.

    1. reecently i find everything i post has probably been said better right before me. i never notice till afterward

      1. Eh, just chalk it up to “great minds”

    2. Leftists make shitty poker players because they always show their hand too early.

      Villains gotta monologue, it’s how you tell them apart from the heroes. Except in Ayn Rand novels, but that’s why they don’t let chicks write comics.

  17. Democrats fear a botched implementation of ObamaCare could dash their hopes of controlling the House and Senate for President Obama’s last two years in office.”

    see, they dont give a shit how awful and useless the law actually *is*… its the horror of citizens *realizing it*, and potentially (gasp!) not re-electing them. they dont care their laws fuck up an already bad system, they care they might not keep *control* over the proles.

    still, its probably bush’s fault

    1. More importantly, they are more concerned with retaining their power than they are with the actual financial, economic, impact of this legilation on human beings.

      It’s like “oops, we accidentally orchestrated a total collapse of the health care market that ruined millions of people financially and/or left them without adequate healthcare because everyone stopped selling health insurance … I hope this means we wont LOSE CONTRL OF THE SENATE”

      1. i think we just said the same thing.
        this keeps happening here. i am not surprised.

        i just read a quote i think is apropos the whole “political obfuscation” theme here =

        “”If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.””

        thomas pynchon, gravity’s rainbow

        i think that sums up a great deal re: modern politics

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