Covered at Reason 24/7: Lawmaker Testifies "Stop-and-Frisk" Meant to Put Fear into Minorities

It's been well-established that New York City's controversial "stop-and-frisk" policy targets mostly minorities. In today's testimony at a federal lawsuit challenging the policy, a New York State Senator said NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly outright admitted the goal of the program was to target blacks and Hispanics.

Via the New York Post:

State Sen. Eric Adams, D-Brooklyn, said Kelly made the startling admission during a July 2010 meeting in Manhattan with then-Gov. David Paterson and other officials.

Adams, a former NYPD captain, said he complained that a "disproportionate" number of blacks and Hispanics were being subjected to the controversial crime-fighting program.

According to Adams, Kelly "stated that he targeted or focused on that group because he wanted to instill fear in them that any time they leave their homes they could be targeted by police."

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Comments

[Hugh Akston]

Not sure if NYP is trolling or serious.

[Scarecrow Repair]

It will be walked back tomorrow as an April Fools joke.

[John Galt]

Little matter, those NYC folks love being dominated. If the NYPD was to even think about backing off violating NYC dwellers' constitutional protections those same dwellers would throw a fit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

According to Adams, Kelly "stated that he targeted or focused on that group because he wanted to instill fear in them that any time they leave their homes they could be targeted by police."

If only that had been put in writing in a memorandum that could be shown in court and to the media... nothing would change.

[Chris Mallory]

When close to 95% of gun crime is committed by black and Hispanics it doesn't make much sense to target white guys.

You can have diversity or freedom, not both. Diversity brings you 9/11 and the riot by "teens" in Chicago over the weekend.

[Stormy Dragon]

What's with all the actual racists showing up here lately? Did our habit of ironically accusing each other of being racist get us on Google's bad side or something?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Probably just bad trolling. I'd like to see a truly original attempt at trolling.

A Norwegian immigrant to the US who rabidly supports whale oil as the solution to the energy crisis, and who is racist against non-whaling peoples.

A Chinese monarchist who derails every thread by arguing in favor of the Mandate of Heaven.

A Castillian who accuses Epi of being a Basque nationalist.

You know, something to switch things up.

[jesse.in.mb]

A Castillian who accuses Epi of being a Basque nationalist.

Let's be honest. People would like Epi more were he a Basque separatist.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

"Sure, that car bomb in Pamplona killed 13 people, but one of them was Michael Bay! Not an entire loss, then."

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm not seeing the downside.

[Episiarch]

I'm much more of a Catalonian separatist. You people don't know me at all!

(runs off crying in the general direction of Barcelona)

[jesse.in.mb]

I think you meant Barthelona there.

[Art Vandelay]

"I think you meant Barthelona there."

No one says "Barthelona" in Barcelona, you anti-Catalanite!

[Episiarch]

Only in Spanish, jesse. Not in Catalan.

[jesse.in.mb]

Doesn't matter, the joke must be made every time Barcelona comes up.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Well, who isn't?

Seriously, it would be great to see Catalonia as its own nation -- which it was for most of its history, and quite a successful one at that. They are, after all, much of the economic backbone of Spain. Spain can keep the Baeleric Isles as a consolation prize. While we're on the topic of Spain, have the UK turn Gibraltar into a Hong Kong-style overseas province.

[Episiarch]

Spain can keep the Baeleric Isles as a consolation prize

I don't think they'd like that very much considering they consider themselves Catalonian. Plus, Ibiza, dude. Party island!

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Hence why Catalonia would give them away only to go to war for ownership of them in the next decade.

Can't be Spanish geopolitics if it's remotely comprehensible or reasonable.

[Hyperion]

I have to think that the problem with the Spanish, is that they're just really bored.

I mean, they had the conquistador thing going on. Running around the new Americas, conquering, and looting huge amounts of treasures.

Then they had that inquisition deal. You know, forcing the women folk to strip naked in their dungeons so they could look for marks of the devil, and then burning the ones at the stake, that didn't have nice T&A, or just complained too much.

Well, after all of that, they just don't know what to do about this boring running a country bullshit, so you see, it's not really their fault.

[entropy]

and who is racist against non-whaling peoples.

I don't think the eskimos do that anymore since Canada sent them to government school and put them all on the dole, so basically, a Norwegian Japanese supremacist?

[jesse.in.mb]

Isn't that already what one of the trolls is into? No wait, he loves Japan, Nordic whites, and Israel (is whale kosher?).

[entropy]

IS whale kosher?!?!?

[entropy]

The passage in Deuteronomy (14:4-5) gives a list of the animals that chew the cud and have cloven hooves and are thus kosher: oxen, sheep, goats, deer, gazelles, roebuck, wild goats, ibex, ante?lopes, and mountain sheep. It is interesting to note that whale meat and whale oil are forbid?den not because the whale is a forbidden fish but because the whale is a mammal that, obviously, does not have cloven hooves and does not chew the cud.

So no.

This is why there are no Japanese Jews.

[Heroic Mulatto]

(is whale kosher

Nope. The only kosher seafood comes from animals with scales and fins, and are not bottom feeders.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm really sad about this. American/New Rise/D B Cooper was soooo close to fulfilling one of TIT's unique trolling category.

[Irish]

What's with all the actual racists showing up here lately?

Well, 95% of those racists were one guy, so I don't think it's that bad. We only have about 2 actual racists, it's just that they're very vocal and one of them keeps changing his name to get around Reason banning him.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I would also like to point out, and this can't be said enough, that Chris Mallory molests his daughter.

[Sevo]

Heroic Mulatto| 4.1.13 @ 7:40PM |#
"I would also like to point out, and this can't be said enough, that Chris Mallory molests his daughter"
Bullshit!
That's not his daughter, that's his pig!

[Irish]

Maybe he had sex with a pig and made it have a pig-girl baby.

Then he had sex with that, which would make you both right.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Same difference.

[Sevo]

Stormy Dragon| 4.1.13 @ 7:00PM |#
"What's with all the actual racists showing up here lately?"
You sure it's more than one? I mean the message is almost word-for-word.

[Calidissident]

I'm pretty sure Mallory is his own guy. He's been here well before American was.

[Sevo]

Don't remember him from a while back; thought maybe this was Slappy with a new handle.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

When close to 95% of white collar crime is committed by whites and Jews, it doesn't make sense to target blacks and Hispanics.

Would you agree with the above statement?

[Concerned Citizen]

I agree with both.

[GILMORE]

"You can have diversity or freedom, not both."

dude. i so pre-empted this type of thinking in the immigration post earlier today...

to wit:

"MikeP| 4.1.13 @ 2:50PM |#
""
It would also be interesting to test whether the belief that the self-evident unalienable rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence apply to all people, born in the US or not...",

They have a Catch-22 'belief' in it = these 'inalienable rights' can only be possible when YER CULTUR and YER LAWZ are being followed... DERP... so if we lets the Mexicans in, we lose it all! cause they destroy ur freedoms, see?

cause, see, The Enlightenment never happened with no dirty messicans and negras. which is why it dont apply to them.

what i find silliest is that the VADare.com adherents think of themselves as *intellectuals*

sort of like the 'intelligent design' creationists. its some really stupid shit in a pretentious wrapper

[Calidissident]

"When close to 95% of gun crime is committed by black and Hispanics"

Let's assume that's correct for a minute. How does that justify stop and frisk of individual blacks and Hispanics?

[Hyperion]

We're all in this together. The prez says so.

[Invisible Finger]

And what will people do with the checks? Pay off debt, sending banks into a tizzy again.

Yglesias must be one of the slow children.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Print Money. Mail Everybody a Check.

That's the actual, serious title of the article.

[Episiarch]

"Fucking mightily with the economy hasn't worked. Let's fuck with it even harder."

[jesse.in.mb]

Epi, sometimes the economy just needs a good deep dickin'. Who are we to deny it that?

[Episiarch]

What if we're teases?

[jesse.in.mb]

Is that code for you can't finish?

[Episiarch]

It wasn't, but it can be.

[DWC]

Well,isn't that the strategy for everything the government does? Something doesn't work, do more of it and do it harder.

[mr lizard]

MuchoMoarfr3333Sh!t

[Hyperion]

America has grown desperate for smart ideas to revive a flagging economy

How about this idea. Get the fucking government out of the way. There is no lack of smart ideas, it's just that most of them don't have any chance at not being regulated or taxed out of existence before they even get started.

Proglodytes cannot grasp that concept, though, they would rather the economy just go up in flames, rather than admit that they are wrong, again.

[entropy]

Fight unemployment by giving money directly to American families.

How does that even fight unemployment???

Can we try that with anything else?

Fight terrorism by giving money directly to American families.

Fight drugs by giving money directly to American families.

Fight the patriarchy by giving money directly to American families.

Fight AIDs by giving money directly to American families.

[Hugh Akston]

GOD DAMMIT PEOPLE QUIT LINKING TO FUCKING RETARDED SLATE ARTICLES

[Suthenboy]

Holy shit. That is one of the most grievously ignorant suggestions I have ever heard.

Asking Matthew Yglesias for economic advice is like asking preschoolers for technical advice on space flight.

Seriously, who actually reads and agrees with anything Slate publishes? Do they actually have a readership or are they just there for people to make fun of?

[Hugh Akston]

Slate's business model is predicated on generating insane headlines that will drive clicks. The actual content of the article is largely irrelevant, much like the people who write them.

[Invisible Finger]

Same as every newspaper for the last 300 years.

[GILMORE]

it never occurs to Yglacias that "lowering people's taxes" is a far more effective means to achieve the same goal;but that is inconceivable because Daddy Government isnt "doing something" - rather, people do it without them.

[John C. Randolph]

Wow, iggy decided to quit even pretending that he's not a retard?

-jcr

[darius404]

You guys do realize what today is right?

[GILMORE]

yeah... ray kelly said that... to the Black Governor of NY

sorry, but the most lying liars in lietown are NYC-based state senators. i dont know what he has to gain by it, but its not like politicians have never used "cops is racist!" to appeal to constituents

[Hugh Akston]

It's cool bro. Paterson doesn't know he's black.

[Suthenboy]

It is probably 100% accurate as to the intentions of the practice, but it is a little hard to believe that Kelly said that. OK, more than a little.

[GILMORE]

I think the intentions of the practice are more banal and less sinister = protect unionized cop jobs by ginning up lots of summonses and arrests by any means necessary. so they wade into poortown and shake down the usual suspects. voila! budget rises secure.

[Suthenboy]

I know a few cops. Most are ok guys, not too bright, but okish. A few are sinister as hell.

I am not sure I buy the old ' never ascribe to evil what can be explained by stupidity'. Sometimes evil deeds are driven by evil intentions.

You could even argue convincingly that the definition of evil intentions is that they produce evil results.

I am too tired to type the rest.

[Sevo]

Suthenboy| 4.1.13 @ 7:15PM |#
"It is probably 100% accurate as to the intentions of the practice, but it is a little hard to believe that Kelly said that. OK, more than a little."

And it is April 1st...

[AlmightyJB]

What's interesting to me though is that we've had a pretty aggressive stop and frisk program in Columbus in the past. Mainly targeting minority neighborhoods which is where the majority of crime takes place. This is when we had a black CPD commissioner and a black mayor.

[AlmightyJB]

Actually I believe we call our top cop Chief, not Commissioner.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Yes, that's a bit too pat and convenient a story.

[Episiarch]

Agreed. As someone who has had incidental contact with Ray Kelly and knew someone who interacted with him semi-weekly, the guy is a scumbag but he isn't stupid.

[Anonymous Coward]

According to Adams, Kelly "stated that he targeted or focused on that group because he wanted to instill fear in them that any time they leave their homes they could be targeted by police."

Unpossible! Only evil, right-wing, ratbagging, teafuckers seek to instill fear in minorities!

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Intel gained during LEGITIMATE Terry stops (not this unconstitutional NYPD variation) often helps solve a lot of crimes. Sometimes aggregation of info from two or more Terrys gives enough in concert to solve a crime that occurred on a previous date or a later date. Our FIR file (terry data) is invaluable. We caught two burglars in the last week due to Terry intel that we never would have caught otherwise. In one case, a witness saw enough (partial plate, vehicle damage) that my partner found a likely in our FIR file. Photo montage gave us PC. Then, we tried to arrest him, eluded and we terminated the pursuit (too dangerous) so now we have PC for Aggravated Burg (he assaulted the homeowner/Robbery AND eluding. Never would have solved it if not for the alert officer who Terry'd him a couple of weeks ago when he had RS and noted the license data, etc.

I solved one as well by using associate data to check the pawn computers ( we have data on pretty much every item pawned nationwide available online). Since it was jewelry, I couldn't do an item search (too nonspecific) but a name search of a AN ASSOCIATE (gf - info gained during a terry) of a known burglar led us to a likely pawn shop and when I brought the vic in, she positively identified the unique jewelry.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

Then, I got the GF to flip on the boyfriend and did a phone tip so she could get him to admit to the burg on a phone call that I took part in (need a warrant in WA to record it, but not to listen in on another line).

Boom. Two scumbag burglars put away because of intel gained during terrys.

Our FIR file is invaluable. Any good salty street cop is going to have a couple dozen of these scumbags memorized, but the FIR file gives exponentially more info and allows us to establish links that only become apparent when you aggregate FIR's. Our intel division comes out with intel reports that do just that and it helps us solve a LOT of crime.

Terry's and RS are valuable tools for law enforcement and victims LOVE when we use them to get their shit back and put these scumbags away. NYPD does a disservice to law enforcement by abusing Terry v. Ohio. It is not Terry v. Ohio that's broken. It's bread and butter constitutionally valid police practice. It's NYPD's bastardization of same that is the problem and they should be ashamed.

[Hugh Akston]

That's an awful lot of words to demonstrate how aggressively you don't get it.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

I get it. I was explaining to those who think a Terry is a "failure " (past discussion) if it doesn't result in arrest how wrong they are. Most Terry's should NOT result in arrest.

I am explaining that Terrys fit well within constitutional guidelines and we will continue to respect the constitution as WELL AS actively and proactively pursue criminals using constitutionally valid tools and practices. The fact that NYPD is abusing the constitution is quite obvious. The fact that this does not reflect on the validity of Terry v. Ohio is also obvious for those willing to read case law and especially for those of us in the trenches actually bringing burglars and thieves to justice and using Terry v. Ohio to gather intel and keep our fingers on the pulse of the street beat day in and day out.

We will continue to have the respect and admiration of the vast majority of the public, as per polling data, and we will continue to do what we do.

What you don't get is that proactive, aggressive law enforcement is a benefit to society and can (and is in my case) done with respect for constitutional restrictions.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

We've had a bunch of kick-ass burg and general thievery arrests in the last couple of weeks (my partner caught another one trying to slip our perimeter and he had committed an armed burglary and will likely get substantial prison time) and we will continue to use intel gathered during entirely constitutional Terry stops to help bring criminals to justice, and to get them running scared and looking over their shoulder - afraid to talk to their buddies, afraid to pawn their swag, etc.

cheers

[Hugh Akston]

That's an awful lot of words to try and convince us (or yourself) that other people hold you in even the slightest regard.

[Duke]

Why don't check the pawn computers and find my stolen Beretta and Leupold binoculars.

[jesse.in.mb]

OT: Google Maps has a motherfucking treasure map style for April Fools Day. In the top right click on map style and choose treasure.

[Hyperion]

I clicked on it, and saw that all of the treasures in the DC/Baltimore area are circling a huge drain hole near the Capital building in DC.

[Heroic Mulatto]

The street mode is money.

[Firstname]

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Welcome to the United Police States of America folks. We want you to fear your government and the law enforcement they control to control you!

[Flemur]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/o.....dNe0PzGksO
"Here is what the anti-cop critics never divulge: Blacks are 66 percent of all violent-crime suspects, according to the victims of and witnesses to those crimes. Blacks commit around 70 percent of all robberies and about 80 percent of all shootings in the city. Add Hispanic shooters, and you account for 98 percent of all shootings in the city.

Whites, by contrast, were only 5 percent of all violent crime suspects in 2011. According to victim and witness reports, they commit barely over 1 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies."

[Calidissident]

None of this justifies stop and frisk

[LogicalPosition]

Considering this comment was taken out of context, one must wonder if he also included "before they leave their house with WEAPONS." Let's be real, it's obviously these minorities doing the misbehaving, since S&F actually did reduce crime levels in NYC.