Euro

Spain Requests Bailout for Banking Sector

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Today, Spain requested a €39.5 billion bailout for its banking sector. The bailout will almost certainly be approved by eurozone finance ministers who are meeting in Brussels. The request comes on the same day that Greece begins buying bonds from private investors in an effort to meet conditions required for continued assistance.

Much of the Spanish bailout money will go to four large banks, while €2.5 billion will be put into what is being called the "bad bank" that was set up in order to hold some of Spain's toxic property assets.

The announcement caused the euro to rise to a six-week high against the dollar. However, this rise could have been due to a lack of understanding about the nature of the bailout, as was noted by Joshua Raymond at CityIndex:

Interestingly enough, the euro rose sharply in the immediate aftermath of the announcement, which to me appears likely that many investors mistook the announcement as a formal sovereign bailout request. That knee jerk reactive move was quickly corrected however. Many in the market are taking clarity around the Spanish fiscal situation in their stride currently, particularly considering the time of year and the fact stock indices have performed well of late. 

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy declined a bailout in October from the European Central Bank, avoiding the sort of austerity measures the ECB, the European Commission, and the International Monetary Fund (known collectively as the "troika") have been imposing on Greece. The bailout requested today would be managed by the European Stability Mechanism, which is being financed largely by Germany and France. However, while ESM help might not come with the same strings that have been attached to troika bailouts, it does come with some risk.

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  1. Query: How much money does the ESM have for these kinds of bailouts? What will it have left in the tank after shipping e40BB to Spain?

    1. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

      Money is infinite as long as people clap their hands and wish hard enough.

      1. The ESM can’t print its own money, and gets it from Euro nations.

        When their current kitty gets spent, who’s to say whether the Germans will be willing to go Weimar 2: Currency Boogaloo and give them more?

        1. Fucking Germans. Nothing changes. Fucking Nazis.

          1. This is not the correct protocol for Godwinning a thread.

            1. You know who else didn’t use correct protocol?

            2. Shut the fuck up, Donny.

      2. I just read an internet comment that said: “We already have a more severely redistributive taxation system than Europe. True, but Europe’s spending is also progressive. Imagine if the average American middle class family paid zero or near zero for healthcare. Imagine if the average middle class family paid zero or near zero for college tuition. Imagine all that money back into their pockets, and back into our economy driving up aggregate demand.”

        Yeah, imagine how awesome the economy would be if the US were just like Europe.

        1. Imagine if the US had EU-levels of unemployment. Imagine if the gasoline in the US was priced as high as the EU. Imagine if blah blah.

          People who worship Europe don’t live there. At most, they vacation there, thinking it’s just like the US.

          1. And must also be blind, because Europe is generally pretty shitty.

        2. There is a reason that the house I’m living in here in Germany is much smaller than an equivalently prices house in a neighborhood with similar amenities and such. There is a reason that food here is just a wee bit smaller, but yet costlier. There is a reason all the cars are tiny things with manual transmissions.

          That is because, despite Germans being quite affluent for Europe, they have a lower standard of living than Americans. They make similar amounts, but lose so much of it to taxes that they simply can’t afford bigger. Those who can afford it, do. But you average man on the street has to make do with a smaller house, or apartment. Smaller meals. Less of everything, because he is paying out the nose for that free college and free health care.

          But hey, FREE!

  2. declined a bailout in October

    and what happened since then?

    1. Important people dumped their stocks in questionable banks perhaps

  3. How is Greece buying bonds? What are they using as currency?

    1. Greece is buying bonds (at a steep haircut, I believe) using bailout-funded Euros.

  4. They should call them “failouts.” I feel that more properly expresses what’s going on, as they are “outing” the failures.

    1. There’s a reason they force the non-failing banks to take the bailout money too. If you out the bad banks you hurt their fragile self esteem.

      1. It’s like food stamps for banks–we don’t want them to feel any social stigma for their failings.

        1. My dad was an elementary school teacher. He used to pass out the pink lunch tickets to certain students each morning. Then one day in the 70s he was given instructions to stop. The students with free lunches would come up to his desk and he would give them their ticket discreetly so as to avoid stigmatization. It was the beginning of the end. Now we give everyone little trophies for attending, and if their parents can manage to show up to collect them, even those not attending will get their little trophy too.

  5. So is this the beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

    1. Its a can, being kicked.

      The beginning of the end was some time ago. Hard to pin down, really. In retrospect, probably the abandonment of hard money after WWI or possibly the end of Bretton-Woods.

      I suspect the end of the beginning of the end was Lehman going tits-up, and the response (socialize losses, reinforce TBTF, put central banks in charge of economic policy).

  6. There is no reality any more. Nothing can fail, everything can be bailed out. Infinitely. What fun.

    1. Our last, best hope is benevolent superaliens. I say we throw all of NASA’s budget into transmitting an SOS in all directions, in some sort of form that any intelligence can decipher. True, that could lead to conquest, but it’s better than this steady decline.

      1. IT’S A COOKBOOK

        1. Yes, well, better aliens eating us than us eating us.

      2. Earth is probably as attractive as the Hostess bailout.

      3. Do these Superaliens have euros?

        Because, otherwise Spain and Greece don’t want their help…they might ask for austerity.

        1. Don’t be silly. Superaliens use quatloos. Everyone knows that.

          1. What are you, some kind of space Jew?

            1. First, Space Jews aren’t “superaliens.”

              Second, and more importantly, they don’t use quatloos. They use latinum, which, near as I can tell, is some sort of fictional mercury. I’d mock that, except I think our currency may be based on the same thing.

              1. Latinum is a fiction, an intellectual property that has, in theory value. Unlike our debt.

                1. I dunno, did the Space Jews trademark it? Single words generally don’t get much protection, otherwise.

              2. Big eared, hook nosed Space Jews would definitely want some austerity…

                Seven foot tall, generous, superaliens bearing euros would just be interested in eating spanish and greek cuisine.

                1. To be clear, this is gold-pressed latinum, right?

                  1. What does it matter what you keep your latinum in?

      4. True, that could lead to conquest, but it’s better than this steady decline

        Think of it is a bailout… you’re not just kicking the can down the road, you’re kicking it to the end of the Galaxy…

        Serious question: Who bails out the Super Aliens?

        1. Super-super aliens.

          I can do this all day.

    2. Rebeca Linares is real. And her boobs can never be bailed out to 2009. DESPAIR, SPAIN.

      1. Thanks for making me sad, you jerk.

      2. Oh, good. It looks like it is Porn Monday.

        “What a fun, sexy time for you.”

        1. “Ooh, I can taste those meaty, leading man parts in my mouth!”

        2. Every Monday is Porn Monday, Beloved Dags. And besides, if if hurts Epi’s feelings, you should be all for it.

          1. I didn’t know he had any feelings.

            And whaddya mean I don’t pay my bills? Why dya think I’m broke? Huh?

            1. What do you mean I don’t support your system? I go to court when I have to.

              1. What you you mean I couldn’t be the president of the United States of America?

                1. What do you mean I’m not kind? Just not your kind.

                  1. If there’s a new way, I’ll be the first in line. But it better work this time.

                    1. Man, I love Metallica. That’s off the black album, right?

                  2. Tell me something – it’s still we, the people, right?

                    1. Sort of, Almanian. I think it now reads something along the lines of…We the (Top) People…and then it goes into a bunch of 100 year old gibberish that no one can understand, and we have no real, guaranteed freedoms, only those the Top People think we should have.

    3. It is surreal how all this can-kicking gets reported on as though it is responsible, sensible, necessary policy-making, soberly decided upon by Top. Men. “There is no reality” is a good, if depressing, way to put it. Funhouse mirrors for all!

      1. If responsible, sensible policy-makers weren’t doing the sober thing, we might go over a FISCAL CLIFF. The word “cliff” is right there in the name. That’s all you need to know.

        1. I’ll just leave this here. Actual “Fiscal Cliff; Women, Minorities Hardest Hit” headline courtesy of NYT. Self-awareness has no place in the funhouse.

          1. Well fuck us all, Dagny.

          2. Okay no, I am not done.

            As negotiating and posturing over the looming “fiscal cliff” continues, one phrase we hear less often than we should is “nondefense discretionary spending.” A boring string of words if ever there was one, it’s a category of spending that will play a role whether we go off the cliff or if we avoid it with a grand bargain, since it stands to see drastic cuts either way. Those abstract, boring words represent very concrete assistance to women and children living in poverty. A significant reduction in governmental spending in that opaquely named category will disproportionately affect programs they rely on.

            Yes, a string of words so boring, he could hardly concentrate long enough to figure out that it’s a completely simple noun phrase, just a normal little adj+adj+n, no biggie for most of us, but if you write for the NYT it is ABSTRACT and also SCARY because if you took the time to try to understand it, or go some egghead to help you parse those difficult, five-syllable words, you would realize it means something VERY CONCRETE about WOMEN.

            Not that it just means, you know, any spending that is discretionary and not related to defense. You could of course try to use your brain to just figure out what kinds of things might fall into that category, but since you write for the Times, we can be relatively sure you don’t have one.

            1. if you write for the NYT, you never have to think; you only write the correct thoughts that everyone in the club knows to be good and true.

          3. Poor Women and Children Faced With Fiscal Threat
            By BRYCE COVERT

            HOW IS BRYCE COVERT NOT A SUPERSPY FOR MI6????

            1. More like OSS 117. The new version.

              1. A funny movie.

          4. comment from that NYT article

            Legislators who refuse to fund the programs the disenfranchised rely upon are more than indirectly responsible for their deaths. A new category of homicide should be devised to include such non-benign neglect of the poor by those in power. If obstructionist Republicans were faced with real punitive measures they would think more carefully about the consequences of their actions.

            leftard idea of justice: non-redistribution means homicide

      2. Well, there isn’t. Where is this money coming from? Are there any consequences for anything any more? If there is no punishment for being insanely retarded, why would anyone not be insanely retarded?

        1. The international banking system is a snake eating itself.

          1. Ouroboros. Now if it was Rebecca Linares eating herself, that would be more interesting. Especially for Porn Monday.

            1. In post-reality world, spines are no more of an impediment than, say, being out of money. See how this works?

              1. If you can dream it, you can do it?

                How about something more apropos for our current President: ‘If I can dream it, you’re gonna do it whether you want to or not.’

                1. That dream- you didn’t do that.

              2. Seriously, though, I wonder about the people who think the current economic and political paths are okay. How do they believe that the debt problem will be resolved? Some of them cannot be ignorant of the severity of the problem. What end game do they see being played out?

                1. I had this discussion today with my boss – who is a ‘moderate republican’ and a liberal co-worker.

                  When I mentioned the 16T worth of debt, my boss said “it’s just funny money” and since we’re the world super power, the problem will eventually sort itself out.

                  The young liberal co-worker just kind of shrugged.

                  1. More proof supporting that “you do get the gubmint you deserve.”

                  2. since we’re the world super power, the problem will eventually sort itself out.

                    Exactly. *Nobody* has as many nukes as us!

                    1. Not even Rasilio.

                    2. I may not have as many Nukes but I’ll just have my mother whip up a batch of her split Pea Soup and overwhelm you with my Biological weapons.

        2. So are you saying that if I’m still working and paying my bills I’m insanely retarded? Or that by doing so, I’m showing I’m so insanely retarded that I’m actually one-upping the people I have/will be bailing out? If the latter, what do I win and when?

          I really had the right idea last week what with the whole barefoot, pregnant, and unemployed thing.

          1. Retards gonna retard

            1. And apparently going full retard is no impediment to a successful career.

              1. You know how Kirk Lazarus said you never go FULL RETARD? He was wrong.

                1. He wasn’t wrong. He was fucking playing us. He knew the truth all along: go full retard, but don’t let everyone else go with you.

          2. This whole “working” and “saving money” thing is for suckers, nicole. If we were smarter we’d both be barefoot and pregnant in some well-armed survivalist’s cabin somewhere.

            1. I would let both of you wear shoes. I’m not some sort of monster.

              1. Uh, yes you are. Have you looked in a mirror lately? A soul mirror?

              2. And the deal gets, shall we say, sweeter…

              3. That’s just his disturbing foot fetish talking.

                1. After the shoe store, I have the opposite of a foot/shoe fetish–not that I found much erotic in the foot anyway.

                  “I find the most erotic part of a woman is the boobies.”

            2. some well-armed survivalist

              Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyya ladies.

          3. In this brave new world, I’m the retard because I have no debt and a bunch of savings. Isn’t this new world grand?

            1. That’s what I’m saying. It’s all part of the Sacred Ouroboros of the Bailout. The retards are smart. The smart people are retarded. But then we would have to be smart again somehow. Who here will be smart/retarded enough to find out how?

              1. Reality is just what we tell each other it is. Sane Smart and insane retarded could easily switch places if the insane retarded were to become the majority. You would find yourself locked in a padded cell wondering what happened to the world.

            2. Unclean! Unclean!

            3. the retards are writing the rules now.

              1. so, too retarded to fail then?

              2. Rules? What rules?

            4. My nephew has a hobby that make me proud. As I’ve mentioned, he works for a Qwikimart in Greensboro’s hood. Last night, I visited his wing of the house to see what he was up to. He had thousands of used lottery tickets he had recovered from the dumpster on his bed. Most were ripped up. I asked him, what good could those possibly be. He says, most players don’t even realize it but the tickets are redeemable for points. You get so many points you are eligible for a side bet with very good odds. I asked him how much he has raked in. Close to a thousand so far. Doesn’t play the lottery but still profits from it. Hard to believe he is my sister’s kid.

              1. that make me proud.

                But not nearly as proud as I am of my gooder English.

            5. In this brave new world, I’m the retard because I have no debt and a bunch of savings?

              It depends on what your savings are in. If it’s gold and bullets then you’ll probably be ok, though still retarded. (I think you’re stuck with that one in any world.)

          4. Yes, nicole, yes you are. For what it’s worth I am just as retarded, if not more so.

  7. So Reason is telling me that Spain declined a bailout so they wouldn’t have to undergo Greek style austerity? But how is their economy bad if they didn’t have much austerity? A Krug assured me that there were major and draconian cuts. How could a Krug be wrong?

  8. How could a Krug be wrong?

    Well, first, he gets out of bed in the morning.

    And, well, that’s about it.

  9. The day’s good news is that the Fed is now monetizing 90% of the federal government’s new debt.

    I’d love to know what they think their exit strategy is for this. They must have one; they must believe they have some trick that will allow us to be the first nation in the history of ever to monetize the government’s debt without wrecking the currency and setting off hyperinflation. I can’t imagine what it is, but there must be something.

    1. AMerican exceptionalism.

    2. We’re the reserve currency! No one will ever stop using us as their primary reserve, no matter what we do! Therefore we can keep doing this forever and ever with no consequences.

      1. now just imagine if you could print money in your own home! No reason to worry about those pesky bills.

      2. Only so long as we are more stable than everyone else… or you could say, so long as everyone else is less stable than us. It’s all relative to them! Time to start another war, maybe?

    3. Nuclear Blackmail?

      Give us all your money or we nukes your cities.

  10. Meanwhile, over at NBC.com (to which I offer no link), some asshole offers up a succinct analysis of America’s financial problem thusly: “TAXES ARE TOO LOW.”

    1. Meanwhile, this gem of idiocy is making the sharing rounds on Facebook today.

      1. That just put a giant dent in the office bottle. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

        1. I almost passed out, no office bottle required.

          Well, now it’s required.

        2. THIS IS WHAT LIBERALS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

          1. Obviously the lesson here is too much wealth in private hands. When that happens, the most exploitative individuals amass it from the share of everyone else; once hoarded, they’ll sit on it and not spread it around to keep the economy flowing. Hence the need of high taxes for the government to confiscate it from these hoarders and spread the wealth around.

            Yup, that’s what they believe.

            1. AKA The Scrooge McDuck AKA the Smog Theory of wealth accumulation.

            2. By some holy act of mercy, my FB feed has not been infested by that idiocy. Plenty of other idiocy, but not that one.

        1. I also like that they use the statutory tax rate throughout the entirety of the post, until the get to right now. Once they reach right now, they use the ‘effective tax rate.’

      2. How is it not a violation of the NAP for them to change from marginal to “effective” (SCARE QUOTES IN THE ORIGINAL ZOMG) tax rates in 2011? Where’s my juicebox?

        1. ^Exactly. Great minds think alike. I also want someone to point out that America has BY FAR the lowest taxes on low income individuals among the industrialized nations. We actually have one of the most progressive tax systems when you consider the difference the wealthy pay relative to the poor. So by their logic, low taxes on poor people cause recessions!

        2. Non Aggression Principle? They’re proglodytes. You might as well be talking about Huns.

      3. That imgur is not as good as the one of the penn state cheerleader.

    2. Of course, what they mean is “Your taxes are too low.

  11. USA! USA USA! USA! USA!

    are we winning yet?

    1. I don’t know, does landing at the top of a pile and still dying in a bridge collapse “winning”?

      1. Dieing last = winning!

        1. Silly. The winner of a bridge collapse is the person who dies in the nicest car.

          1. So…again you’re telling us to borrow more than we can really afford?

            1. Don’t be silly. He’s saying “take the Mercedes on your next trip to China.”

    2. So we’re going to get an explicit tax increase from Congress and a stealth tax increase from the Fed.

      The good news is the irresponsible won’t notice a thing.

  12. I’d love to know what they think their exit strategy is for this.

    A vast array of military superpower weaponry.

    Let no window be unbroken!

  13. “The request comes on the same day that Greece begins buying bonds from private investors in an effort to meet conditions required for continued assistance.”

    Greece is forced to buy its own debt back because it can’t afford to keep paying the interest, but it has to borrow the money to buy its debt back?

    That’s so fucked, it’s superfucked.

    1. GENIUS! WHY DIDN’T SOMEONE THINK OF THIS BEFORE!

      1. “And I promise to every Floridian that you will all be RICH! Because we’re gonna print some more money! WHY DIDN’T ANYBODY EVER THINK OF THIS BEFORE???!!”

        *Cut to newspaper headline: New Florida Currency WORTHLESS!*

  14. Totally OT but I think my Phone is coming on to me.

    It just played in succession

    NIN – Closer
    Disturbed – Meaning of Life
    Nickleback – Figured You Out

    1. You listen to Nickelback? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      1. You figured him out.

      2. Yep, this particular play list is dominated by Ozzy, Linkin Park, Metallica and GNR with a good dose of late 80’s – 90’s Hard Rock and Metal hits sprinkled around them.

        I still don’t understand the raw hatred they engender, I mean they obviously aren’t The Who or Metallica but they are a reasonably good Pop Rock band who had a couple of very good songs

        1. Are you a Canadian?

          1. Or perhaps he has a brain parasite.

          2. Nope I’m from that liberal utopia known as Massivetwoshits.

            1. Massachussets is also home to 99% of classic rock stations in the US. True Story.

              1. Seriously. Every time i go to Massachussets I get like the kid in The Sixth Sense: I see the ghosts of everyone’s mullet. Believe me, they are straining at the psychic membrane, moaning in anticipation of the day they will once more be stylish and be loosed once again upon the earth.

                I get a similar vibe in Philly.

            2. As a fellow Massachusettsianite, all I can say is: You listen to Nickleback? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

        2. 80’s – 90’s Hard Rock

          So Poison and Cinderella?

          1. I have 2 Poison songs but no Cinderella on there iirc but a partial list would be

            ACDC, Later Alice Cooper, Bush, Candlebox, Collective Soul, Disturbed, Drowning Pool, Evanescence, Garbage, Shinedown, Incubus, Staind

            I also somehow forgot The Offspring who have 12 tracks on that playlist.

            1. Do you have a chinstrap beard?

              1. No at the moment I have a full Neckbeard which I allowed to grow in when I was in the Hospital a couple of months ago for a Staph infection, knee surgery, and something else with my shoulder they never identified (couldn’t lift my arm to shave for about 6 weeks). Been too lazy to shave it since. I also cut off my hair because of the difficulty in washing it.

                Prior to that I had a Goatee and hair down to my mid back.

                And yes I suppose I was stuck in the 90’s 🙂

                1. at the moment I have a full Neckbeard

                  It figures. The most untrustworthy of all beards.

                  Wait, you’re just fucking with us again, aren’t you? AREN’T YOU?

                  1. Actually in this case no.

                    However it was allowed to grow in for legitimate medical reasons and eventually I’ll get around to shaving it cause my wife hates it, says it causes her thighs to get too irritated.

    2. Gliding right past the awful fact you have Nickelback on your phone…

      Mine is playing “I Wanna Be Your Dog.” Rowr.

      1. Shoes and Iggy Pop? Well shit, sug. Plus, that’s already what I call my man.

        1. I take care of my girls.

          1. We used to call Iggy Pop “sex on downers.”

            Now what do you call sex on downers with Iggy Pop playing?

            1. “Wham, Bam, Thank You Ma’am”?

            2. Ruffied by an old man sex?

      2. I once considered Gimme Danger my personal theme song.

    3. I’m listening to Woods of Ypres right now. I’m pretty sure this means I’m going to kill myself soon.

      1. I’m pretty sure this means I’m going to kill myself soon.

        Well: It happens

      2. I’ve had Spacehog stuck in my head all day with that stupid “Ooohoooohoooooh”song. I’m not amused.

        1. Oh, shit. Now I’ve fallen down the ’90s singles pit. Fuck you, buddy.

        2. I am really, really glad I have no idea what that song is.

        3. Thanks a lot asshole. Now it’s in mine.

          Fortunately, I kind of like that song, but only because I only hear it every few months.

    4. What Warty said.

      1. Isn’t hating Nickleback one of the defining characteristics of a Hipster?

        1. I don’t know about that, but it is certainly a defining characteristic of having taste in music.

          1. I don’t know about that, but it is certainly a defining characteristic of having taste in music working ears.

            1. Yeah after spending 2 years on the flightline standing next to a fire extinguisher watching F-15’s Prep for takeoff I suppose a legitimate argument could be made for my ears not working so well but I’m still pretty sure that pretentious dislike of popular music and name dropping of obscure bands by themselves are enough to qualify you as being a Hipster.

              1. Iggy Pop is obscure?

                If you want to listen to Nickleback, have at it. But at least don’t get all huffy about your poor life choices.

                1. Who is getting huffy, I’m “worshiping our lord lucifer” out loud at the whole conversation.

                  Do you think I would not realize the reaction you Hipsters would have to my admitting to having Nickleback on my phone? 🙂

                  1. Dammit, SugarFree! We’ve been PWND!

                    1. I find myself relieved, mostly.

        2. Isn’t hating Nickleback one of the defining characteristics of a Hipster?

          Uh oh, what does not really knowing anything about Nickelback get you?

          1. Peace of mind. Enjoy it.

  15. OT: Do you know why Jovan Belcher went all murdery? Patriarchy. It is known.

    1. Look, there are two things that caused Belcher to go nuts: Manhood, guns, and concussions… bloody hell, I’ll try that again.

      1. FUCK YOU ROID RAGE IS A FUCKING MYTH FUCK YOU I’LL KILL YOU

  16. All this talk of 90s metal got me to thinking of something else from the 90s. Song of the day:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuWB9Nhoypw

    1. The best phrase I ever heard to describe ’90s music was “The Metal Recession”. It was a terrible time.

      1. Warrant on whining about Nirvana on their Behind the Music was one of the best things ever aired on television.

      2. First off, the 90’s were the best music decade ever.

        Second, there was more “Metal” music created and played in the 90’s than any other decade, it was just that it finally got popular enough that most pop music started sounding exactly the same.

        3rd, does anyone even make metal music anymore? I mean I know Evanescence is still kicking around but I can’t remember the last time I heard even a pseudo pop metal song on the radio EXCEPT on a classic rock station. Hell at one point I counted 15 songs that didn’t even have a guitar in them on a modern rock station.

        Face it Metal is a dead music genre.

        1. You are a masterful troll. Even though I now know for sure that you’re fucking with me, I still have a strong urge to argue with you. Well done.

        2. The best decade of music is always the music of your 20’s. That”s what you will listen to for the rest of your life and be mercilessly mocked by the kids for listening to it.

        3. First off, the 90’s were the best music decade ever.

          Oh, and RAtM and Nirvana. Your argument is invalid.

      3. Is the present decade a Renaissance of “Metal” music? (I’m old, so my musical tastes are stuck in the 1990-2000 rut)

        1. Sure is, especially in cold places like Finland.

          1. I don’t live in Finland and frankly don’t have time to go hunt down this mythical metal.

            What I can tell you is that here in the Good Ole USA Metal is dead, only listened to by us 30 and 40something geezers from Gen X. Sure you might find the odd Metal show on obscure college radio stations here and there but you what to know the real way to tell it is dead…

            The one place in Mass media you can reliably go to find something about Metal is VH1, a station whose bread and butter is the “I love the XX’s” nostalgia shows.

          2. I think Warty posted this once before, but it is pretty cool, Where metal rules.

      4. agreed – music from the 90s for the most part blew chunks. I personally blame Nirvana.

        1. Agreed. Fuck those whiny chumps. I remember liking them at the time, but in my defense, I was 10. That shit has not aged well.

        2. I wasn’t a big fan of Nirvana when they made the scene. I preferred more classic punk (Clash, Pistols, Stiff Little Fingers) and hardcore punk (Minor Threat, Black Flag, Zero Boys). But I was listening to Nirvana over the weekend, and I actually found a new appreciation for them. There are blues elements I never really noticed. And some very interesting guitar work.

  17. Not that there is a single “Libertarian” opinion on any issue (3 Libertarians/ 5 opinions) what would be the general consensus on the financial site Zerohedge.com?

    Other than the general “We are all DOOOMED” tone of the posts there is there any underlying ideology?

    1. Nothing particularly overt, although the predominant scathing skepticism of central planning, government control, bailouts, and fiat money certainly point them in a libertarian direction.

      Its an interesting site. Some thought-provoking articles, some MEGO technical stuff. I find a lot personal confirmation bias there, so I try to be careful. I think we’re dialed in for some kind of massive economic crisis, but the just-around-the-corner crowd are a little too twitchy, IMO.

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