Kelly Thomas

Father of Cop Who Killed Kelly Thomas: "It wasn't a beating; it was a struggle."

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Fullerton homeless man Kelly Thomas was beaten into a coma on July 5, 2011, by five members of the Fullerton Police Department. His family took him off life support days later.

Last September, after a lengthy investigation, Fullerton PD officers Jay Cicinelli and Manuel Ramos were charged with manslaughter and second degree murder (respectively). The two men will stand trial later this month. 

On Sunday Cicinelli's stepfather told the Orange County Register that his stepson didn't do anything wrong:  

John Huelsman, the stepfather of Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, also said he has reviewed police surveillance video of the deadly incident last summer and, after studying the 30-minute clip more than a dozen times frame by frame, said he believes Cicinelli will be exonerated.

"It wasn't a beating; it was a struggle," said Huelsman, 72, a retired police officer who now works as a private investigator.

Huelsman declined to detail specifics of the video footage but said Cicinelli is not the criminally culpable police officer that Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas portrayed him to be when announcing charges in September.

"There are partial truths, but nothing as animated and descriptive and as forceful (as what Rackauckas portrayed)," said Huelsman, speaking publicly about the incident for the first time in detail.

Cicinelli is accused of kneeing Thomas twice in the head, using a Taser four times on him, and using the front end of his Taser to hit Thomas in the head and facial area eight times when he already was pinned to the ground by multiple officers.

"We cannot see what (Rackauckas) sees on the video," Huelsman said.

Here's the order of events that Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas recounted at a September press conference: 

Ramos took this contact from lawful use of detention to unlawful use of excessive force when he raised his fist. Ramos then grabbed Kelly Thomas by his arm. Thomas started taking steps away from Ramos. Then a baton came out. Kelly Thomas put his hands up, palms out, in a defensive positions. Palms open. Ramos yelled at Kelly Thomas, "Get on the ground." The other officer came running out from behind his car to assist with the arrest that officer Ramos was doing. The evidence does not indicate that Ramos' partner had any involvement in the exchange, or that he had any knowledge that Officer Ramos was engaged in unlawful police conduct. The physical altercation began as Officer Ramos swung his baton and chased Kelly Thomas. He punched Thomas in the ribs several times on the ground. He put his hand on Kelly Thomas' neck for leverage. He held him for other officers to use their force on Kelly Thomas. Wolf (Ramo's partner) kneed him and tackled him. Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:45 p.m. and kneed Kelly Thomas twice in the head. He used his taser four times on Thomas. 

Three of the times Cicinelli taser Kelly, he held the charge five seconds. The fourth time he tased him, he discharged darts, and shocked Thomas for approx 12 seconds. Cicinelli used the front of the taser to hit Kelly Thomas in the face eight times while Kelly Thomas was pinned to the ground with the weight of the other officers' bodies. There was no audible response from Kelly Thomas at this time. When Kelly Thomas didn't scream, it should have indicated to Cicinelli that Thomas was down. 

The evidence does not show that responding officers actually beating Thomas. 

Thomas' numerous please of "I'm sorry," "I can't breathe," "Help," "Dad," were all to no avail. Kelly Thomas not responding when the blows to his face occurred? No help. The growing pool of blood? No help.

In all fairness (something Fullerton cops denied Thomas by murdering him), it wasn't Cicinelli's handiwork on Thomas's face that killed him, or even the prolonged electrocution, but "mechanical suppression of the thorax." 

But I'd still like to hear Huelsman's case made in court: that a "struggle" and a "beating" are mutually exclusive events; that every suspect who fears and fights for his life after a cop threatens to "fuck him up" deserves to be worked over to death; and that the only way Jay Cicinelli could possibly be in the wrong is if Thomas had just lied there, mute and still. I'm sure a jury would just eat that up. (And yes, I realize a jury very well could eat that up. Here's hoping they don't.)

From Reason.tv: "Cops Vs. Cameras: The Killing of Kelly Thomas & The Power of New Media"

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  1. Yeah, a struggle for survival.

    1. For the love of money [POLIS’ privation property values] is the root of all evil [POLICe brutality.]

      1. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment…unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares?

        ~Murray Rothbard

        1. A proper libertarian can tell by their looks.

          In short; RACIALIST SCIENCE is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors. ~Murray Rothbard

          1. DUMBFUCK!

            Your hatred/trolling has made you stupid; the SECOND a non-black drops the “n-word” in America (whatever the reason) his statements immediately becomes null and void even if he’s claiming the sun rises in the east!

            DUMBFUCK!

      2. White Indian say law of reason-land mean CONSUME FIREWATER!

        1. I’ll drink to that!

  2. Ex-cop and also the step-dad of the cop who beat the man to death? Yeah, I’m gonna go ahead and discount his impartiality right there.

    I’d like to see this man confront another ex-cop and give the same recount: Kelly Thomas’ father.

    1. Yeah, if that picture was his step-son, using the word struggle would greatly offend him.

    2. If I was Kelly Thomas’ father I’d be very tempted to beat that shit head into a coma. Then say “What beating? It was a struggle.”

      Just goes to show the apple doesn’t fall from the tree. Where do you think Cicinelli learned it from?

    3. Stepfather of the cop. Could it be that simple?

      “My step father was a cop, and his step father was a cop, and his step father was a cop before him…”

  3. I’m sure a jury would just eat that up.

    You might not want to know what a jury would say on that. American’s disconnect from their own rights is pretty disheartening.

    1. I work in a prosecutor’s office in SC. I see this a lot. There are certain types of cases where for whatever reason jurors just can’t believe it would ever happen, like homicide by child abuse.

      1. My point was that I wouldn’t take a guilty jury verdict as a forgone conclusion even with overwhelming evidence.

        1. I’m pretty sure most people here expect a “not guilty, give them a medal and a raise” verdict.

          1. Not this time. Too much video and too many corroborating eyewitnesses. Not to mention, the dumbasses were bragging to the EMT’s on scene after the murder.

            Nope. These guys are going to fry.*

            *And by “fry,” I mean they will serve a couple of years in protective custody, will draw some type of disability pension and will end up as some kind of “advocate” working for the PBA or FOP.

            1. Too much video and too many corroborating eyewitnesses.

              Doesn’t matter. The prosecutor will ask potential jurors something along the lines of “Do you believe everything a policeman says, without any question or reservation?”, and anyone who expresses any doubt will be tossed.

              1. This trial is getting moved anyway. There’s no chance in hell it happens in Fullerton.

                Not that it will change the defenses strategy, but I still think it will be moved.

          2. I’m pretty sure Rodney King proved that video taping cops doesn’t mean shit!

    2. Juries are made up of American citizens who come to court with a bias in favor of cops. I have tried to talk to vicims of police abuse who have just settled lawsuits against the police. They are scared to give me any information that I can use on my website. America is not the land of the free and home of the brave. Americans are a mass of cowardly scum.

      1. “”Americans are a mass of cowardly scum.””

        Post 9/11 bootlicking proved that.

        1. …leave American property values open to attack by aggressors.

  4. I’m sure a jury would just eat that up.

    I’m sure the right jury will.

  5. I sense sarcasm in the last line, I unfortunately think it is right.

  6. IOW, back in my day we use to shit kick suspects without any impunity.

  7. FTA in the OC Register:

    The two officers have pleaded not guilty and are scheduled for a preliminary hearing on March 28.
    Cicinelli, 40, who has been on administrative leave since Aug. 2, declined to comment for this story.
    If convicted, Cicinelli faces up to four years in prison; Ramos faces a possible 15 years to life in state prison

    Four years? Four fucking years for snuffing out a man’s life?

    And the fact that he’s been charged with killing someone but still remains on the payroll just speaks volumes about the character of the FPD and the strength of their union. Unfortunately, what it says is sickening.

  8. I like Riggs’ writing style. It’s an unambiguous, explicit fuck you style. And it’s refreshing.

    1. That is refreshing!

  9. STOP RESISTING.

    1. MARX: NO!
      MISES: NO!

      GAMBOL LOCKDOWN IS FREEDOM!

      1. An indian walked into a bar, he was carying a bucket of shit in one hand, a rifle and a cat in the other. he sits and orders a drink,

        drinks it, throws the bucket of shit in the air and shoots it, then bites the hesd off the cat, the bar tender said what are you

        doin and the indian said, “ME WANNA BE LIKE WHITE MAN SHOOT SHIT AND EAT PUSSSY”!

        1. An indian is canoeing down the river softly singing “Hum uh ho ah hum ha oh ah Hum! uh ho ah hum ha oh ah” and God decides to see what would happen if he plucked out half the indian’s brain. So he does. The indian looks around and then starts to paddle again, softly singing “Hum uh ho ah hum ha oh ah Hum! uh ho ah hum ha oh ah”, so God plucks out the other half. The indian looks around, confused, then starts paddling again, this time singing “Alouette, gentille Alouette Alouette je te plumerai”

          1. What did the frogs ever do to you, sarcasmic?

            Aw, fuck it. That was a good one.

            1. My mother is a Canadian frog.

              1. I have a lot of respect for your father. Marrying someone with special needs takes both a lot of patience and the rewards are never assured.

                1. Marrying someone with special needs takes both a lot of patience

                  Sticking around takes patience. And he did not.

                  1. France just wasn’t the same after Napoleon died…

  10. He retold the story of his stepson saving a life: While answering a call for a family disturbance, Cicinelli faced a man who charged at him with a butcher knife. He drew his gun and pointed at the man but didn’t fire. At the last minute, the man complied, Huelsman said.
    “That would have been a justified killing,” he said. “The family thanked Jay personally for not killing their son.” Huelsman said Cicinelli received a commendation from the District Attorney’s Office for that act.

    Um, not taking a life =/= saving a life, dipshit.

    1. Hey, in cop world, anytime they don’t choose to kill you, they saved your life.

    2. I didn’t kill you yesterday, so, I guess according to Huelsman’s logic… I saved your life.

    3. That’s some pretty twisted logic. But I’m not surprised at all.

    4. EMTs fail to murder people every day.

      1. It takes some brutal enFORCEment to protect Land enTITLEments for the PRIVileged, PRIVation property owner class.

        Ask the Indians on the Trail of Tears.

        1. White Indian say man who get tears in eyes go beyond the vale.

        2. Ask the Indians on the Trail of Tears.

          Gladly. Tell me where one of them lives and I’ll post their answer. And if you can’t point to one of them, STFU and quit polluting our threads.

        3. What do you call a white man surrounded by twenty five indians?
          You call him bartender!

          1. What do you call a white man surrounded by twenty five indians?

            Before I heard your punchline, I would have called him Custer!

    5. I saved about 6.8 billion lives today!

  11. In all fairness (something Fullerton cops denied Thomas by murdering him), it wasn’t Cicinelli’s handiwork on Thomas’s face that killed him, or even the prolonged electrocution, but “mechanical suppression of the thorax.”

    I’m no medical expert, but I believe that generally, death is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.

    1. “mechanical suppression of the thorax” accomplishes that. See Burke and Hare.

    2. I’m no medical expert, but I believe that generally, death is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.

      Brilliant Paul, but since all deaths are technically caused by “lack of oxygen to the brain,” is serves us well to identify the cause of death by identifying what caused the brain to be starved of oxygen.

      For example, a man who shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, technically died because his brain could no longer receive oxygenated blood. Of course, I can’t receive that blood because his brain is no longer connected to a functioning blood supply due to the catastrophic damage caused by the shotgun.

      See how it works?

      1. “Brilliant Paul, but since all deaths are technically caused by “lack of oxygen to the brain,””

        No they aren’t, I disproved this definitively when I was a child, please don’t succumb to memes and lazy thinking.

      2. Yes, I see how it works. Apparently my comment was too subtle. I’ll be more direct next time:

        Cops: liars.

        There.

    3. So maybe we should charge Oxygen with all murders.

      1. If you’re referring to this, I would approve.

  12. Jay Cicinelli could possibly be in the wrong is if Thomas had just lied there, mute and still. I’m sure a jury would just eat that up.

    Jurys tend to love cops. So be careful what you wish for.

    And always remember Reason’s favorite subject of late: Jury nullification. That shit goes both ways.

    1. Yes it does. And that is why jury nullification is a really foolish strategy. If someone can say “fuck the law I am not convicting of a drug offense”, someone else can say “I don’t care if a cop did kill the guy, he was a bum who had it coming”.

      1. someone else can say “I don’t care if a cop did kill the guy, he was a bum who had it coming”.

        That is exactly what will happen.

        1. Of course, that’s what happens now, all the time.

          What would be a real change is if it were applied equally on both sides of the courtroom.

      2. One is a refusal to to find guilt because the jurors reject the validity of a criminal violation of that type at all as incompatible with their understanding of common law or constitutional rights; in such a case, the questions of fact become irrelevant.

        The other is a refusal to find guilt because they like the accused and don’t want to see them punished. There are some significant philosophical differences.

        1. The other is a refusal to find guilt because they like the accused and don’t want to see them punished. There are some significant philosophical differences.

          With the same outcome: The cops went free.

      3. That’s like saying we should ban everyone from having firearms because some people use them to rob gas stations. Just because a right can be abused doesn’t make all uses of the right illegitimate. Specifically, the fact some people will misuse jury nullification to free genuinely guilty parties doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used to overturn unconstitutional laws.

        1. Specifically, the fact some people will misuse jury nullification to free genuinely guilty parties doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used to overturn unconstitutional laws.

          Or maintain unconstitutional laws? Or in this case, and “unconstitutional act”?

      4. Keeping people innocent of any real crime out of prison is a whole different ball of wax from freeing a murderer because you like whatever faggoty costume he wears to work. The same nullifiers who would free a nonviolent drug offender are the same ones who would gladly convict a murdering cop.

        1. The trick is getting them on your jury.

    2. Jurys tend to love cops.

      Remember, the whole point of voir dire is to get the dumbest pig fellators you can find. So when the fucking judge lies to them and tells the jury they have to do decide the way judge tells them to (i.e. you are only the find of fact. I am the finder of law. If you found he did xyz, you HAVE to rule guilty), they do.

      1. Justice for Kelly Thomas.

  13. And the fact that he’s been charged with killing someone but still remains on the payroll just speaks volumes about the character of the FPD and the strength of their union

    It speaks to human nature’s indefatigable nature to obsequiously genuflect to authority. 4 years for a life, meh. But don’t say cunt, especially around Ken! Cuz THAT is fucking vulgar. That would make human nature feel uncomfortable. And apparently we have to accept this animal “as is.”

    1. Don’t be a cunt, Troy.

      1. I thought cunt was okay. It’s slut that’s verboten now.

        Try to keep up.

        1. Don’t be an ignorant slut, ProL.

        2. Slunt

          1. Clut?

            1. That’s an inverted clit, doofus.

              1. Like yours?

                1. Your words are hurtful.

                  1. I don’t think that was microagression. More like mega-macro-Godzilla aggression.

                    1. mega-macro-Godzilla aggression.

                      I like that phrase. It’s a keeper.

                    2. Megagression vs. Godzillopus

                    3. Godzillopus?

                      I think I have that hentai stashed away somewhere…

      2. I was going to say I am what I eat, but that would only be fried rice and beans.

        1. ..and that was the lamest fucking joke.

          1. Better luck next time.

    2. “”speaks volumes about the character of the FPD and the strength of their union””

      The republican union busters are on their way. Not.

      The public servents that beat people up are ok to have a union, those who don’t beat people up, not so much.

      1. And TrickyVic once again points out the idiotic hypocrisy of Team Red. (This is a big reason why I wouldn’t piss on Scott Walker or The Fat Man if they were on fire)

        1. Team Red today, Team Blue tomorrow.

          I would say the idiotic hypocrisy of politicians, but I feel that would be redundant.

          1. Politics in America is a purple pile of shit.

  14. We cannot see what (Rackauckas) sees on the video,” Huelsman said.

    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

  15. multiple cops and he had to be tazed FOUR TIMES? I’ve known a lot of decent cops but it is hard to imagine the justification for this, maybe the pun is intended, overkill.

    1. Can’t take any chances on bums and niggers lowing my property values. What are you, a commie sympathizer?

      1. White Indian say man who walk sideways through turnstile going to Bangkok.

        1. White Indian say:How do you keep Indians out of your neighborhood?
          Keep a liquor store between your house and the reservation.

      2. If Honkey Injun keeps tossin’ n-bombs around his liberal friends won’t play with him anymore!

        Or does he think that he’s a conservative?

        Schizophrenics are just so hard to keep track of…

  16. So he was “struggled” to death? You don’t get that kind of trauma and bleeding in a “struggle.” What a disingenuous asshole.

  17. Cop omerta is stronger than mafia omerta. Of course, there were people actively trying to bring down the mob.

    1. The mob isn’t protected by the “law”.

      1. Yeah, it kind of helps when the “rules” are on your side.

        1. But remember, Troy, it’s “rule of law”, right? Maybe one of our resident authority fetishists can explain that to us in further detail.

          1. Please do. Words are hard and murder is relative.

  18. On second thought. The father is right. It was a struggle. The cop was struggling with what was the right thing to do, and lost.

    1. You got it all wrong. It was a struggle to try to kill a man with less than 5 pigs in less than 5 minutes. And this unemployed twit, who had the audacity to be homeless AND psycho on top of that, was giving them a run for their money.

      1. I didn’t know how many guys it would take to whoop my ass BUT I did know how many they were gonna use!

  19. I want to know what Huelsman considers a beating, if he thinks this wasn’t.

    Dunce-cap Dunphy I’m sure will be along any minute to explaininate the difference.

    1. It takes a few broken eggs to be able to free-market scrambled eggs. And it takes keeping bums off the street to make The Great Leap Forward into pure capitalism.

      1. Especially them hippies. They make the best omelets. And they already smell like sausage to boot.

      2. How many Indians does it take to eat a freshly killed dear?
        Five. One to do the eating, and four to hold up traffic.

  20. It seems that for some (most?) cops, even they detect any tension at all in your muscles while they are trying to subdue you, that means you were “resisting.” I guess you’re supposed to just go limp.

    Be careful how aggressively you breathe – they might take your respiratory movements as resisting. Which of course, you must stop doing.

    1. With the way technology is moving I bet in a few years the cops will be saying this:

      “The fucking perp was THINKING at me aggressively!”

  21. Holy Fuck! In the comments from the OC Reg story, the murderer’s sister is personally calling out the father of his victim. Un-fucking-believable.

    (Look for the comment by Ron Thomas and expand that subthread.)

    1. Ron Thomas…… my name is Jill Cicinelli, Jay’s sister. I have sat back and been silent for months now and I just can not be silent anymore. I would really like to say these things to your face but this will do for now. First of all, we are all sorry that Kelly lost his life but that was from choices that he made. At first I was even sorry for his family but now I am not. Here is why. You have used your son’s name and this incident to create such a circus and I have some questions for you. Why have you told everyone you are a retired LEO when you actually didn’t even pass probation. Why are you making it out that Kelly’s death is such a loss to you when you had a restraining order against him and hadn’t seen him for some time? WHY WHY WHY on earth did you not give him this attention when he was ALIVE? If so he may not…/blockquote>

      Note: her avatar is a NASCAR car.

      1. The last bit is from me, not the cunt.

        1. White Indian say man who lose son always in darkness.

          White Indian has a sad 🙁

        2. AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED

        3. That was from choices that he made.

          Wow.

          1. Yeah, he was walking down the street and his life just suddenly got “lost”.

      2. Luckily, everyone else in the thread takes her to task.

        1. So perhaps there is hope for a jury of their peers to do right?

      3. If so he may not be dead now. You are feeling so guilty for everything YOU did or did not do and now you are trying to blame it on everyone else. You are some piece of work Ron Thomas. It really does not matter what you think of my brother because the truth will come out that he DID NOT murder Kelly. He is a good man, a good and true Police Officer and an excellent father to his children, something you might have a hard time understanding. I would suggest some professional help might be in order for you to deal with your actions and what role you played in Kelly’s life and death. Get the help you need Ron Thomas and quit blaming everyone else. JUSTICE FOR JAY!!!! And I don’t want to see one comment from anyone on how I can say these things to “poor ron thomas” You have all been calling my brother a murderer for months now as if you know all the facts, you haven’t a clue.

        1. That was the rest of the murderer’s sister’s comment that Warty started.

          What a mean-spirited, vicious cunt.

          1. Yeah, but at least she’s articulate and incisive.

          2. “good and true Police Officer” I threw up a little. How the fuck is it blaming everyone else for what happened?

          3. Sloopy. It’s human nature. Deal with it. Deal with it without saying cunt god damn it.

            1. He didn’t say “cunt god damn it”. He said “cunt”.

            2. Let me tell you something, Troy. Human nature is one thing, and defending your brother may fall under that (Ted Kaczynski’s brother notwithstanding). But blaming a violent death at the hands of five policemen on the father of the victim is something else entirely.

              Fuck that cunt and any other santorum-filled hepatitis-infected asshole who would defend what she is saying to that poor man.

              1. I’m gonna have to agree with sloopy on this one. What an unbelievable bitch. Some things are indefensible, among them beating a 135 lb mentally ill homeless man to death with 5 other thugs. I’m pretty sure if I had a brother who did something like that not only would I not defend him, but I’d probably be right there rooting for them to lock his ass up and throw away the key. What a cunt.

          4. Notice “Police Officer” is given proper noun status.

        2. and an excellent father to his children

          She would know, they are her children too.

          1. +1,000,000

        3. The only justice Jay should be getting is the 8’x6′ kind.

          Preferably solitary in maximum security.

          1. I realize most people here are anti death penalty, but I’d be willing to say a lethal injection needle in the arm would be justice too. Doubly so since we’re talking about a cop. Aren’t they supposed to be trained to keep their cool under stressful situations so that they don’t fly off the handle? Even if someone does “resist” they’re supposed to be trained to know better than to keep beating someone after they’ve stopped moving and screaming. So fuck that shithead.

            1. Oh, hey, the idea that Cicinelli should get the “blue solution” for this crossed my mind too, and quite frankly in this case it’s deserved, but someone has to be the better person here.

              No matter how painful it is. Dammit.

            2. This isn’t about loosing their cool. The cops made a cold, calculated decision that it would be super-awesome to beat to death a harmless man. It’s no accident they picked a homeless crazy person to do it to, they figured someone like that would be the easiest to get away with killing.

              1. Since he was homeless, they probably thought that no one would miss him!

      4. Glad she understands the difference between wanting an unstable person away from your family and wanting them dead.

      5. Un-fucking-believable. Yeah cunt, you don’t think the thought that his son wouldn’t be dead if he had not let him hit rock bottom? What a sack of shit. Ron Thomas did not lose his ‘homeless son’ Kelly Thomas, he lost the little boy he raised to your thug brother.

      6. Psychopathy clearly runs in this family.

        1. Full gallop, too.

  22. Fullerton homeless man Kelly Thomas was beaten into a coma on July 5, 2011, by five members of the Fullerton Police Department. His family took him off life support days later.

    Thank you Mike Riggs for listening to our complaints and simply reporting the facts this time.

    1. It sure looked like a fact to me when he used the word “murder” at first.

      1. Riggs used to post “beaten to death” when the facts of the case are “beaten into a comma, then later removed from life support”. There are times when precision in writing is necessary.

        Regarding culpability, there has never been a doubt that these officers are morally responsible for the death of Kelly Thomas.

        1. He could have been beaten into an apostrophe. It doesn’t change the fact that the cops’ actions directly resulted in his death.

          1. He could have been beaten into an apostrophe.

            Okay I laughed at that.

          2. I will state uncategorically that I believe the police officers committed murder and belong in prison for a very long time.

            Because “beating someone into a coma, which later results in death” has the same legal consequences as “beating someone until he is dead”.

            And when it comes time to prove this in court, the exact facts of the case will matter. And they should matter to people that “report the story” particularly if they want to add editorial content.

            1. Po-tay-to
              Po-tah-to

              If I bound and gagged you and left you in the woods in the middle of winter, would I have murdered you, or would I have assaulted and falsely imprisoned you before you froze to death?

              I see your point, and would probably prefer Riggs say “allegedly murdered” as opposed to “murdered.” But, I would not prefer him saying “X happened, and then Y happened a few days later,” when Y was a direct result of X. It diminishes the severity of what these cops did, which was murder this man.

              1. Chain of events: cops beat person; EMTs stabilize person and take to hospital; neurologist declares brain death; life support removed.

                A different chain of events; cops beat person; EMTs stabilize person and take to hospital; neurologist diagnoses persistent vegatative state; family requests removal of life support; attending physicians calls resulting time of death.

                This will matter in court.

                But morally, murder is murder. Your righteous indignation is appropriate in either case.

                1. It diminishes the severity of what these cops did, which was murder this man.

                  I disagree. The facts of the case are appalling on their own. Needless editorializing is what diminishes the impact.

        2. “…beaten into a comma,…” Grammar debates are serious business at Reason HQ. /sarc

          I need a ruling. Is this an example of Joe’z law?

          1. Quick fingered crowd.

  23. John Huelsman, the stepfather of Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, also said he has reviewed police surveillance video of the deadly incident last summer and, after studying the 30-minute clip more than a dozen times frame by frame, said he believes Cicinelli will be exonerated

    Well, that settles it for me! Why bother with the trial?

    Curious = that video wasn’t released to the public, was it? Then what is this guy doing poring over it frame by frame? (via his son’s lawyers perhaps?) It would seem a violation to release the video selectively to biased individuals who then go to press to share their opinions? or am i confused?

    1. No, you’re not confused. You’re dead on the money.

      It’s the same reason the PD in Culpeper, VA are releasing arrest records from decades ago for the witnesses who watched the cop murder that woman as she tried to drive away (who did not have his arm pinned, btw), yet they refuse to release even the cop’s name.*

      *The cop’s dashcam “malfunctioned,” apparently, and the video cannot be retreived.

      1. *The cop’s dashcam “malfunctioned,” apparently, and the video cannot be retrieved.

        If true, this is infuriating. Do these things break all of the time? Alternatively, do criminal judges no longer give a shit about enforcing evidence spoliation laws?

        1. “Malfunction” (v) : To record something that contradicts the officer’s story.

        2. evidence spoliation laws?

          Note the NYPD cops in IA who charged their brothers with evidence tampering in the ticket scandal. They got booed by the other cops. IOW, evidence tampering is just fine when cops do it.

          1. Just for clarification, I meant the NYPD cops that work in the Internal Affairs division. I cannot attest to the activities the NYPD police operating in Iowa are up to, since an FBI raid has not happened upon them yet.

            1. Incidentally, one of the two cops I know is an IA guy, and he spends much of his time hating cops, pretty loudly.

              1. He probably wears a bullet-proof vest with double the protection in the back.

                Or, he should anyway.

        3. Do these things break all of the time?

          Only when there’s potentially incriminating evidence of police misconduct on them.

          1. Not sure how often they break, but I do know that the “off” setting sure seems to be the default when there is a potential brutality case.

  24. The Chinese used to have “struggle sessions” during the Cultural Revolution:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_sessions

    Must have been something similar.

    1. The Chinese used to have “struggle sessions” during the Cultural Revolution:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_sessions

      Holy shit. Didn’t know about that. Pretty fucking awful.

      I guess Orwell was dead-on with his “2-minute hate.”

  25. Would any of you be surprised if the DA in this case pulls a “Sleepers,” Brad Pitt-type prosecution?

  26. The restraining order is a red herring anyway. The Thomases were trying to get Kelly commited, but since they weren’t his legal guardians, they had to get him in front of a judge first. Their lawyer advised the restraining order knowing Kelly would break it.

  27. Under the doctrine of Joint Criminal Enterprise, all five cops on the scene should be facing murder charges. A damn shame the whole department can’t go down on RICO.

  28. The Right Attitude|7.29.11 @ 8:20AM
    Whenever I open a paper and a cop somewhere has been shot, I cheer inside.

    varados|8.1.11 @ 5:21PM
    In a different age…the individual policemen, their wives, children and assorted relatives would have been hacked to death, dismembered…

    Cheeseburger|8.1.11 @ 5:55PM
    Public hanging would be a good option.

    Anon|8.1.11 @ 11:06PM
    Can anyone get us the names and addresses…of these murderers?

    m’Artagnan|8.1.11 @ 8:57PM
    I hope that upon conviction they too are beaten within inches of death.

    Todd Junker|8.2.11 @ 9:49AM
    Execute these thug pig cops NOW.

    Restoras|8.2.11 @ 11:01AM
    Eye for an eye – they should be beaten to death with their own flashlights.

    Phlogistan|8.4.11 @ 4:28PM
    Taze them till the polyester melts..

  29. Are you calling the libertarians out or not?

    Need some more context here!

    Otherwise, it looks like your giving them shit for having the kind of reaction to wanton police brutality that I’d expect from your average decent human being.

  30. I love your newspaper.You have a way of bringing out more than just the usual news report. Being an eyewitness that night I think what you said was pretty acurate. I distictly remember (regardless of what any evidence indicates)an officer continually hitting on the face distict aimed blows to an unresponsive victim on the ground. I hope the truth comes out in court.

    1. kelly ate at the trackside ministry for the homeless about thirty minutes before he went over to the bus terminal on July 5th. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/381323_2352951671748_14

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