The Dumbest Generation: Gen Y's Political Stupidity In a Single Chart

A new survey from the Pew Internet Center confirms every suspicion I harbor about people my age: Despite unprecedented access to information, technology, wealth, and food, we are basically retarded. 

That young people voted for Obama en masse in 2008 is excusable; he was young and charismatic while John McCain was (and still is) repulsively old and cranky. (Insert obligatory Churchill paraphrase here.)

Everything else on that chart is an indictment of our right to vote. If only 50 percent of young Obama voters (between the ages of 18-29) believe Obama has not changed "the way Washington works," it stands to reason the other 50 percent believe he has. This means half of young Obama voters either do not know "how Washington works," or they are stupid.

Of the young Obama voters who believe The One has failed to Revolutionize Politics In America, only 25 percent blame Obama for (presumably) bolstering the system he inherited with kevlar, handouts, and IOUs. That is a very tiny percentage of young people—probably only a dozen or so. If they have not all become public choice extremists in the last three years, or pledged their allegiances to Ron Paul, I hope they stay home in November (it would also be fitting if they cast a resigned vote for Obama out of fear that Rick Santorum will take away all the condoms).

The other 60 percent of you are dead wrong. Sure, Congressional Republicans are appalling in their own way, but so much of what's abhorrent about "the way Washington works"—crony capitalism, regulatory overreach, needless wars, bankster fellatio, the systemic violation of civil liberties—comes straight from Obama's mouth to your ears via various and sundry federal agencies. 

For a smattering of what Obama's done that should appall young progressives, see: 

- Oh Hey Look, the President Is Fibbing About Getting Money From Lobbyists

- Obama's War Record Should Appall Progressives: The president is following in George W. Bush's disastrous footsteps.

- Why Is Obama Championing Sexist Progressive Era Laws?

- Congress, Obama Codify Indefinite Detention

- The Obama Administration's Prosecutorial Overreach

- Obama's Administration Continues Its Record of Criminal Cases Against "Leakers"

- Obama Admits U.S. Drone Program Exists, But It's Definitely Just for Special Terrorist Occasions

- Obama's Phony Tax Reform

- Obama's Crony Capitalism

- Bummer: Barack Obama turns out to be just another drug warrior

- Obama's Thought Police: The trouble with the White House's "Attack Watch" initiative

The good news, Gen Y, is that it is not too late to form a different opinion. Obama has done it quite a few times since you elected him.

(See the entire Pew survey.)

Comments

[RoboCain]

And the dumbest car:

http://hotchickswithdouchebags.....-hardycar/

[End Child Unemployment]

That website should be called douchebags with douchebags, because the alleged hot chicks are invariably themselves douches.

[Juice]

Yes. Flipping through just now and I see very few hot chicks.

[rac3rx]

This was the highlight of the site:
http://hotchickswithdouchebags.....bleeth.jpg
(Not for the chubby chasers)

[Red Rocks Rockin]

WTF is that?

[yuhaw]

hate you

[A Question]

If someone asked me "Has Obama changed the way Washington works?" I would say what do you fucking mean? That is a ridiculously vague question. And they would say just answer yes or no. And then the folks at quote reason unquote magazine would post 400 comments about how inconsistent these answers were with voting behavior and I guess try to imply that a lot of progressives have in fact not been disenchanted with Obama? Oh and that Obama's level of dickishness is even in the same ballpark or universe of congressional republicans who have now decided to drop all pretense around not being total complete dicks at all times.

Okay but I do somewhat agree: Obama has continued the same idiotic war on drugs; and while he's *mostly* ended two wars and reversed a torture policy he has not protected our rights against warrant-less surveillance and imprisonment. He was oddly weak about cleaning up Wall Street but the crony capitalism charges are really weak and his ethics record is much cleaner than any recent admin. Against the insanity that is today's Republican party and quasi-anarchy endorsed by this site, 4 more years please.

[sarcasmic]

This is the most racist article I have read in a long time.

[New John]

Well said Sarcasmic, well said indeed.

[New John]

Well said sarcasmic, well said indeed.

[Brian]

What, exactly, is racist about it? Never, NOT ONCE, is Obama's race mentioned in the article. Or are you of the ilk that believes only racists could possibly disagree with Obama? How can people like you be so willfully ignorant?

[Brian]

Or was your screen name meant to be "sarcastic", and you made a funny? Is that it? I can never tell with trolls. The internet needs a sarcasm font.

[sarcasmic]

aye

[$oros Puppet Barry]

It's "because" race was never mentioned that it's racist!!!????!?!?%&*

[Proprietist]

New here?

[Vicki L Joplin]

Hey Sarcasmic, I think Proprietist is trying to pick you up

[johnd2]

Alas, there are people who can not conceive of the possibility that a person might disagree with a leftist president who happens to be black and not be racist. This mentality is blind, toxic and stupid.

[robc]

Counterpoint: Under 30s support Ron Paul in large numbers.

Some might argue that reenforces the point, but fuck them.

[annonymous commenter some guy]

Please define "large numbers" quantitatively.

Today I heard a story about someone who supported Paul in 2008, but supports Obama now. How the hell is that even possible? (Note: He's under 30...)

[robc]

Larger than the other age groups.

See any exit polling.

[AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA]

"Larger than the other age groups."

"Please define "large numbers" quantitatively."

Try again.

[WWNGD?]

Large numbers? 72pt font.

[God of the Reefer Stick]

"...Paul in 2008, but supports Obama now..."

Cannot be. no it just can't be, no, no, no....

[skr]

Oh that's easy, he kept getting shit from chicks about how Paul is going to overturn Roe v. Wade and as a result had not been laid in over a year.

[protefeed]

If he can't talk his way out of that and into her pants, his problem with getting laid isn't his politics, it's his lack of game.

[sarcasmic]

Anyone who thinks Paul could, if elected, deliver on even 5% of what he promises is completely delusional.

The difference is that Paul would actually try to fulfill his promises, while Obama simply doesn't give a shit.

[JW]

Obama simply doesn't give a shit.

Obama/Honey Badger 2012!

[Ska]

Hahahah ewwww....nasty!!!

[sarcasmic]

Rush 2112!

[WWNGD?]

I don't think the whole band will even be around in 2112.

[gaijin]

but the music will!

[Ray]

I prefer Rash.

[califronian]

vetoes come fast and furious from President Paul.

[New John]

While it would be very difficult and highly unlikely that Paul would be able to enforce all if any of his policies (if elected) it would be brilliant fun to see the battles between him and congress.

[Tulpa]

Congress can't enforce shit. They can't even enforce their subpoenas and contempt citations. (well they can technically send out the SAA with the Capitol Police to enforce them, but they've proven utterly loath to do so and it's questionable how much they could do against a determined executive).

[Tulpa]

Not really; there's a lot that the president can do with no help from Congress. President Paul could end the wars, gut Obamacare with waivers, stop defending laws in court that he doesn't like...and simply not doing the stuff that presidents tend to do would go a long way.

Sure, he wouldn't make America into libertopia but it would be way more than a 5% difference.

[JEP]

I think the trick would be that Paul would have to use the unconstitutional power the executive branch has acquired over the years to make any change independent of Congress.

He would have to reverse all the shit that's been happening and then somehow throw all the power out the window so the next president wouldn't have it.

[LP]

"Obama simply doesn't give a shit."
Of course he does. It's just that, given his only principle is to become charming dictator of the world, everything else is just in service of that. So he can change his mind as much as he needs to.

[Invisible Finger]

This seems odd given that QE1 and QE2 were designed to serve as monetary stimulus but have instead served as excess cash for the largest banks

Slowly but surely some of them are learning who is footing the bill for the progressive ideals. It's the boomers that are in constant denial.

[West Texas]

There is a picture going around Facebook these days of a whiteboard with reasons written on it about, "Why I voted for Obama last time and why I'm going to vote for him again."

It basically boils to, "He's still cool and his heart is in the right place because he says so and he wants to do the right thing but there are a bunch of poo poo heads in Washington who keep getting in his way."

[West Texas]

Link

No sure if that will work or not.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

puke

[Res Publica Americana]

So much retardation and ignorance in a single fucking picture, cannot process

[JW]

You name is Liz?

[West Texas]

No, that's the person who uploaded it to Facebook. Note the number of "shares" from similarly dipshit minded sycophants. One of my own friends shared it yesterday and my eyes bled.

[JW]

De-friend.

[Pro Libertate]

You know, if Facebook were worth a crap, they'd have an Enemies category. Enemies aren't allowed to have any friends in common with you. Enemies can't see anything at all about you on Facebook. And so on.

Also, a Loathe option.

[Ska]

You know, on a few forums I'm a member of there is an enemy button. I still wouldn't use FB, but it would produce some epic lulz.

On second thought, it would probably just lead to the girls I talk to bitching about being enemied by cuter chicks. Don't want.

[Pro Libertate]

No, I do want. Chaos. Hate-filled screeds. Dogs and cats enemying one another. At last, social media will be destroyed by epic, Internet-wasting warfare.

I went to a hockey game last night, and they had a special section for a monthly gathering of people who "liked" the Lightning. It made me a little ill for some reason.

[rac]

Being old, and not even knowing what all that social media stuff is really all about, I nevertheless find this to be an excellent idea. I have real friends that I talk to and such, but I have no real outlet to hate people. Can it be totally incognito?

[Bobarian]

Where is the enjoyment in hating people incognito? Come on... hate em to their face.

[Pro Libertate]

I suppose a secret enemies list and a public enemies list is doable. I like the idea of people being "Friends" and "Secret Enemies" at the same time.

[SugarFree]

I have a hard time secretly hating people.

[Fatty Bolger]

"Secret Enemies List" - awesome.

[Richard M. Nixon]

Damn straight! Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Sparky]

That would be awesome. The beginning of the real Internet wars leading us to Demolition Man times.

[John]

That is the greatest idea ever Pro.

[Pro Libertate]

That's what I'm here for, to make the world a better place.

FB is probably too wishy-washy to do this, but Google+ could grab marketshare in no time following this program. I give the idea away--have at it! Send me millions only if you feel like it!

[JW]

If that picture isn't the clearest indictment of the failure known as democracy, I don't know what is.

[SugarFree]

"I will vote for him because I enjoy watching DEA agents kick the shit out of elderly cancer patients who use a medicine that their state has deemed legal."

[Episiarch]

"I will vote for him because I am a mindless sheep who would have to take a real hard look at my own beliefs and hypocrisy and lack of independent thought if I wasn't going to vote for him and that's painful and hard so I'm going to do what's easy, and what I always do, which is make up bullshit excuses for why I don't want to think for myself and instead just follow my TEAM around like the worthless moron I am. Also, I like turtles."

[JW]

The only response needed.

"Yes, I'm willing to continue to have Muslim children slaughtered by covert drones and cluster bombs, and America's minorities imprisoned by the hundreds of thousands for no good reason, and the CIA able to run rampant with no checks or transparency, and privacy eroded further by the unchecked Surveillance State, and American citizens targeted by the President for assassination with no due process, and whistleblowers threatened with life imprisonment for "espionage," and the Fed able to dole out trillions to bankers in secret, and a substantially higher risk of war with Iran (fought by the U.S. or by Israel with U.S. support) in exchange for less severe cuts to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs, the preservation of the Education and Energy Departments, more stringent environmental regulations, broader health care coverage, defense of reproductive rights for women, stronger enforcement of civil rights for America's minorities, a President with no associations with racist views in a newsletter, and a more progressive Supreme Court."

Add your own reasons as needed:

Continue the drug war
Torture anyone suspected of being a terrorist
Arrest and detain anyone suspected of being a terrorist indefinitely with trial

[JW]

Ack!

without trial.

[jacob the barbarian]

Your spelling faux pas aside the article behind the link is spot on.

[LP]

If she had spent half the time THINKING as she did selecting marker colors...

[Pro Libertate]

His heart is in the right place? WTF?

[JW]

3 cm left, off center mass from the sternum?

[BakedPenguin]

'Good intentions' are all that matter to many people. That alone should explain the path of the nation.

[Pro Libertate]

Good intentions? Good to whom? Him? Some people in Chicago? Countries competing with the United States?

[rac3rx]

It's the participation trophy generation.

[Pro Libertate]

It's funny you should say that, because at the hockey game I mentioned above, they twice did some sort of trial of skill for prizes on the big screen. First, some sort of Concentration variant; next, some business about trying to hit a puck into a little gap (to destroy the Death Star--Vader and some stormtroopers were on the ice).

In both cases, the fans totally blew it. No winners. However, they gave them the prizes, anyway. I mumbled something about that being annoying, and a few people around me in unison agreed.

[Episiarch]

Uh...it was never in question that a ton of morons would do this and that that would be their excuse. I fully expect a metric fuckton of people to trot this shit out before November.

[Pain]

It reads like somebody with battered wife syndrome.

[West Texas]

I need to remember this.

[Res Publica Americana]

OT: Sloopy, bitches couldn't solve they bitch-ass problems widout me, so I'm late responding to your request, but here's some shit you were interested in with regard to the drug war on a previous thread, and some other interesting stuff I found:

--------------------------------------------------

"The End of Faith", Sam Harris, p. 258,

"Some 51 percent of all violent offenders are released from jail after serving two years or less, and 76 percent were released after serving four years or less; at the federal level, the average sentence for a drug offense in the US is 6.25 years. (Office of Nation Drug Control Policy, Drug Data Summary, www dot whitehousedrugpolicy dot gov)""

Also,

thomas dot loc dot gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/T?&report=hr157&dbname=105&

"Although violent offenders receive an average sentence of almost eight years imprisonment, they actually serve less than four years in prison. Typically, violent criminals are discharged from prison in two years or less, and 76 percent will be back on the street in four years or less."

Compound facts:

"Each year, over 1,500,000 people are arrested in the United States because of our drug laws, and at this moment, somewhere on the order of 400,000 languish in American prisons for nonviolent drug offenses; one million others are currently on probation. (ONDCP Drug Data Summary, March 2003)."

"More people are imprisoned for nonviolent drug offenses in the United States than are incarcerated, for any reason, in all of Western Europe (which has a larger population). The cost of these efforts at the federal level ALONE is nearly US$20,000,000,000. (ONDCP Drug Data Summary, three releases)."

"Our war on drugs consumes an estimated 50 percent of the trial time of our courts and the full-time energies of over 400,000 police officers. (W. F. Buckley, Jr., "The War on Drugs is Lost", National Review)."

"The problem with the prohibition of any desirable commodity is money. The United Nations values the drug trade at US$400,000,000,000 annually. This exceeds the annual budget for the Department of Defense. The trade in illegal drugs constitutes eight percent of all international commerce, while the sale of textiles makes up 7.5, and motor vehicles make up just 5.3.

And yet, prohibition itself s what makes the manufacture and sale of drugs so extraordinarily profitable. Those who earn their living in this way enjoy a 5,000 to 20,000 percent return on their investment, tax-free.

Every relevant indicator of the drug trade--rates of drug use and interdiction , estimates of production, the purity of drugs on the street, etc.--shows that the government can do nothing to stop it as long as such profits exist (indeed, these profits are highly corrupting of law enforcement in any case).

The crimes of the addict, to finance the stratospheric cost of his lifestyle, and the crimes of the dealer, to protect both his territory and his goods, are likewise the results of prohibition. (Milton Friedman, "Prohibition of Drugs", 1972).

A final irony, which seems good enough to be the work of Satan himself, is that the market we have created by our drug laws has become a steady source of revenue for terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Shining Path, and others; according to the federal government of the United States, twelve of the twenty-eight groups that have been officially classed as terrorist organizations finance their activities, in whole or in part, by the drug trade. (www dot theantidrug dot com/drugs_terror/terrorgroups dot html)."

"When compared to marijuana, alcohol is by any measure the more dangerous substance. It has no approved medical use, and its lethal dose is rather easily achieved. Its role in causing automobile accidents is beyond dispute.

The manner in which alcohol relieves people of their inhibitions contributes to human violence, personal injury, unplanned pregnancy, and the spread of sexual disease. Alcohol is also well known to be addictive. When consumed in large quantities over many years, it can lead to devastating neurological impairments, to cirrhosis of the liver, and to death.

In the United States alone, more than 100,000 people annually die from its use. It is also more toxic to a developing fetus than any other drug of abuse, and "crack babies" appear to have been suffering, in actuality, from fetal-alcohol syndrome. (L. Carroll, "Fetal Brains Suffer Badly from the Effects of Alcohol," New York Times, November 4, 2003). None of these charges can be leveled at marijuana."

"As a drug, marijuana is nearly unique in having several medical applications and no known lethal dosage. While adverse reactions to drugs like aspirin and ibuprofen account for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations annually in the United States alone, marijuana kills no one. (See at http://www.drugwarfacts.com). Additionally, its supposed status as a gateway drug has never been proven. (www dot rand dot org/publications/RB/RB6010)."

"In many states, a person who has been merely accused of a drug crime can have his property seized, and those who informed against him can be rewarded with up to 25 percent of its value.

The rest of the spoils go to the police departments, which now rely upon such property seizures to meet their budgets. This is precisely the arrangement of incentives that led to this sort of corruption during the Inquisition (if one can even speak of such a process being "corrupted").

Like the heretic, the accused drug offender has no hope but to trade information for a reduced sentence. The person who can't, or won't, implicate others inevitably faces punishments of fantastical severity. Information has grown so valuable, in fact, that a black market for it has emerged.

Defendants who have no information to trade can actually buy drug leads from professional informers (and they do not come cheap). The net result of all this is that police departments have learned to target property rather than crime. Property can be seized and forfeited even if a defendant is ultimately found innocent of any criminal offense.

One national survey found that 80 percent of property seizures occur without any criminal prosecution whatsoever. Under these enlightened laws, couples in their eighties have permanently lost their homes because a grandchild was caught with marijuana. For this and more, see Schlosser's 'Reefer Madness'."

"The war on drugs has clearly done much to erode our civil liberties. In particular, the standards for search and seizure, pretrial release, and judicial discretion in sentencing have all been revised in an attempt to make this unwinnable war easier to prosecute.

Since drug offenses are covered by local, state, and federal jurisdictions, people can be tried multiple times for the same crime--some have been found not guilty at one level, only to receive life sentences upon subsequent prosecution.

One more than one occasion, members of Congress have introduced legislation seeking to apply the death penalty to anyone caught selling drugs. unsurprisingly, our attempts to eradicate the supply of drugs in other countries have been even more detrimental o the liberties of others. In Latin America, we have become a tireless benefactor of human rights violators. (HRW)"

"The war on drugs has also become a great engine of racial inequity, for while blacks constitute only 12 percent of the US population and 13 percent of US drug users, 38 percent of those arrested and 59 percent of those convicted are black. (ONDCP)"

[Priestess]

Actually alcohol DOES have approved medical uses: google anti-freeze poisoning.

[Tonio]

As well as acute alcohol witdrawal, aka delirium tremens or DT. So after the ambulance ride and the emergency room visit and diagnosis they give them a shot of really cheap brandy. Cost to taxpayers or write-down by hospital? Roughly $500.

[Robert]

And it's a solvent for various drugs.

[Priestess]

Yet another reason why vets are better than doctors. My vet keeps a bottle of Everclear handy for poisoned puppies.

[k2000k]

Well fortunately for us most of the millenials don't vote. As a millenial I can testify that by and large it is a pretty retarded generation, (un)fortunatly for us this crisis will only get worse and stupid ideas have a habit of dying when you realize that it does nothing to pay the bills or put food on the table.

[The Left]

The Public Education System is working exactly as we intended.

[Alan]

My first thought as well.

The indoctrination centers are functioning correctly.

[jacob the barbarian]

You fuck everything else up, but _this_ you get right?

[Episiarch]

Every generation is the dumbest generation when it's young, because young people are fucking stupid. We were all morons when we were young, especially sage. Most particularly sage.

[John]

That is true except that the Boomers don't seem to have gotten any brighter with age.

How do you explain that?

[Episiarch]

I never said everyone gets smarter with age.

[Gojira]

In fact, many of us seem to have gotten moar dummer.

[Old Bull Lee]

Part of the reason everything is so fucked up now is because the Boomers are now The Man.

[WTF]

Hold on there, I'm a boomer (on the tail end of it), and while I agree my generationis generally a buch of self-cntered assholes, we're not all like that. And anyway, it was the fucking 'Greatest Generation' that implemented the Great Society welfare state crap, not us.

[John]

That is true. And it wasn't even them. Those programs were not supported by a majority of people. And the Dems took a beating in the 1966 mid terms because of it.

[Gojira]

But mysteriously the voters were disinclined to vote to actually dismantle those programs.

[Old Bull Lee]

"But I paid into them!"

Take no offense WTF, I'm on the Gen X/Y borderline myself. I doubt anyone posting on this site could be considered typical of their generation.

[Sku]

What's a generation these days? Ten years?

[jacob the barbarian]

Sku,
20 years.

[jacob the barbarian]

Sku,
20 years.

[jacob the barbarian]

The great society would not have been possible were it not for the greatest generation's parents and grandparent screwing us with the New Deal

[SugarFree]

I don't think Boomers are dumber on average than other generations, just far more "I got mine, fuck you" to their kids than other generations.

[Gojira]

So they're great libertarians?

*ducks*

[SugarFree]

In the sense that we are caricatured in the popular imagination, yes.

But real libertarians wouldn't hang like bloated ticks on the necks of the young.

"Never trust anyone over 30 40 50 60 70!"

[Sku]

] I don't think Boomers are dumber
on average than other generations, just far more "I got mine, fuck you" to their kids than other generations

Except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they paid for their kids' college educations. And except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they're striving to leave inheritances to their kids. And except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they bought their teenage kids cars. And so forth and so on.

[Marshall Gill]

Yeah, they "paid in", spent every penny immediately and want not only what they paid in (and then spent) but compounded interest to boot. Fuck them all with a rusty chainsaw.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they paid for their kids' college educations. And except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they're striving to leave inheritances to their kids. And except for the part where, more than any other previous generation, they bought their teenage kids cars. And so forth and so on.

Essentially, what you just did there is outline why consumer debt is so high. Most of the money that "paid" for those things wasn't with actual cash, it was with credit and interest, whether with credit cards, car loans, PLUS loans, Sallie Mae, or the housing bubble of the last decade.

And is that REALLY what the Boomers want to be their legacy? Turning the accumulation of debt into a national pasttime?

[sage]

nice to see you've stayed young at heart and of mind.

[GILMORE]

Episiarch|2.17.12 @ 2:25PM|#

Every generation is the dumbest generation when it's young

This does not necessarily preclude Generation Y from being the dumbest of all.

[Pro Libertate]

I'd say the Boomers have been perhaps the worst generation in modern times, but the latest set of young adults seems particularly lost, lacking in reasoning skills, and overwhelmed by a sense of entitlement. Look no further than the Stupefy. . .whatever it is.

That said, some truly pathetic generations have redeemed themselves when reality hit them in the head.

[JW]

but the latest set of young adults seems particularly lost, lacking in reasoning skills, and overwhelmed by a sense of entitlement.

It's almost not surprising, since they have grown up in the wealthiest country in the world, during a time of unprecedented access to material wealth and no significant strife, at least none that affected their lives. As a group, they have never wanted for anything. If they wanted it, their parents got it for them or they bought it themselves, since it was so cheap.

At the same time, I'm not surprised at all that the current crop in the newest generation are relative morons, precisely because of the reason that they have ZERO life experience and come off sounding like uneducated rubes (and have the ability, unlike previous generations to easily broadcast their experiential myopia to the entire world). It happens every 20 years.

Still, this bunch seems particularly dim and vapid.

[John]

People have this idea that they never want their little snowflake to face the adversity they had to face. It never dawns on them that it was the adversity that built their character. And how are their kids ever supposed to develop any character if their parents shield them from all adversity?

[Pro Libertate]

Parenting today is a real bitch, too, as they're immersed in stupidity at all times. Stupid friends, stupid teachers, stupid culture, stupid social media obsession, etc.

[John]

I am appalled at the idea of having my children exposed to most of the people I know. I would rather they stay home an surf porn every day than be exposed to that kind of stupidity.

[Tulpa]

Personally, I think the world would be a much happier place if it operated by porn rules.

[SugarFree]

Parenting today is a real bitch, too

Send them to spend the summer at Uncle SugarFree's place. There's camping and horses and a right nice swimmin' hole down by the crick.

Send me your children.

[WTF]

Send me your children.

It's a cookbook!

[Ray]

+1

[k2000k]

Well I am still hopeful that generation y will get its shit together because we really don't have a choice. Things are going to radically change and we will either adapt or become like detriot.

[k2000k]

Well I am still hopeful that generation y will get its shit together because we really don't have a choice. Things are going to radically change and we will either adapt or become like detriot.

[Pro Libertate]

I find your generation to be redundant.

[Tulpa]

Hearken to the words of that spokesperson for Gen X manhood:

"Our generation has no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual battle; our great depression is our lives."

[yuhaw]

The only way to get out of this....skip a generation. I think we should stop having kids for like 10 or 15 yrs. Figure out how to properly educate ourselves with all this "technology" we have.

[Lost_in_translation]

Just wait until they breed....

[Zeb]

I remember when gen X was the generation of slacker losers who would never amount to anything.

[Pro Libertate]

The problem with that was that the same generation included all of those Reagan conservative kids who wanted to become billionaires.

[Joshua Corning]

Gen X now has the prestigious accomplishment of holding all the jobs that the pokemon generation can't get.

I am so proud that I wore flannel and listened to Nirvana.

[Sku]

The problem with generational generalities is that they generally fail to account for the fact that people grow up, and that most people don't become conservative until they reach that point in life when they have something to conserve.

[Zeb]

The kids are always stupid.

[Tulpa]

They still are.

[Tulpa]

You sound like an old man. Oh, you're on the wrong side of 38, I forgot.

[Fist of Etiquette]

50% SAY OBAMA HAS FAILED TO 'CHANGE THE WAY WASHINGTON WORKS'

60% BLAME POLITICAL OPPONENTS

Reality is one of Obama's political opponents.

[Bee Tagger]

The Obama Administration is also an opponent of Barack Obama.

What else can explain the oppositional arguments they make regarding the health insurance mandate?

[AlmightyJB]

Don't feel too bad Mike. The old farts are voting for Santorum. Not that that's going to make you feel any better.

[Rupert]

I've gotta say, as a 19 year old american, the only person in my generation I even bother to talk politics with is my brother. Everyone else is so unbelivably stupid that they think the government can just give them free health care, like the feds have some giant, physics-defying money machine that creates something out of nothing. It seems like most young people hear an idea that makes them feel good, like that the government can just give everyone free health care, and they cling to it like a christian to the bible, no matter how many times logic and the laws of fucking physics get in their way.

[sarcasmic]

like the feds have some giant, physics-defying money machine that creates something out of nothing

Yup.

Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-Bastiat
http://bastiat.org/en/government.html

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Man, I need to read more Bastiat.

[SugarFree]

"The Pithy Frenchman" would be a great name for a band.

[End Child Unemployment]

Disagree. It sounds like some pretentious hipster bullshit band.

[End Child Unemployment]

I do, however, dream of one day starting a br00tal death metal band called Illegible. The band name logo would be in that incomprehensible splatter text.

[Proprietist]

Terrible band name, but decent bar name.

[John]

That is because they don't know any better. If you had grown up reading the NYT, watching cable news and reading Zinn for your history, you would be stupid too.

[West Texas]

In all fairness, they do have such a machine: it creates money out of nothing. Which is also what said money is worth.

The problem comes from them trying to use this money to buy things that actually are of value.

[GILMORE]

Despite unprecedented access to information, technology, wealth, and food, we are basically retarded

[long slow clap]

As a Gen X'r, I used to think MY generation was retarded.

Generation Y makes us look like freaking rocket scientists.

I sincerely hope our country is taken over by Mexicans and Chinese. At least then we'll be hardworking.

[KDN]

Oh please, once their offspring are a generation removed from the old country they're as bad as the rest of us. We're doomed!

[Ska]

But Chinese-Mexican does sound like a good mix for some hot girls. So there's something good there.

[k2000k]

Yeah we could use more hotties considering the plethora of sea cows that waddle that once pristine shores of this nation. Watch the background of news casts or documentaries 20 years ago versus today, your eyes will weep over what we hath lost.

[Tango Mike]

That's why we need a constant supply of immigrants. They are the lifeblood of our country. Us natives are way too fat, lazy, and complacent.

[Ray]

How do you starve a Gen Y'er? Hide his food stamps under his work boots.

[Gen Y'er]

What are 'work boots'?

[John]

If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Obama has busted the bank. He has not touched entitlements and has spent trillions bailing out bankers and his cronies via the stimulus. He is really the boomers' wet dream of a president.

And these dumb fucks, who are going to be stuck paying for the whole thing still love him. It is not that they have not turned into Republicans. It is that they refuse to embrace a third party or even drop out. Nope, they will still vote for him.

[sarcasmic]

I don't know what's more fucked up.

That after campaigning as the anti-Bush and continuing Bush's policies, the left still loves him.
Or the right wing spin machine is painting him as The Worst President Ever, knowing that he hasn't done much that Bush wouldn't have done.

The cognitive dissonance from both sides is deafening.

[John]

I think Obamacare and the stimulus are a lot worse than Bush or McCain. And I think Bush would have been loathed to have whack Al Awacki for no other reason than the left and the media would have gone insane had a Republican did it.

But other than those things, which are pretty big, you are right. And in their defense some of the Obama hatred is due to the full realization what a stupid idea compassionate conservatism was. They want their virtue Bush took from them back.

[Pro Libertate]

Really. He is Bush in almost every material respect. Plus many other bad things. It's insane that people run around hating Bush and all he did while continuing to support Obama.

Seriously, what did they dislike about Bush? Not the wars, not the expansion of the regulatory state, not the attacks on civil liberties, not the increase in welfare programs, not the rendition, not Guantanamo, not the War on Terror, not the War on Drugs, not the bailouts. . .am I forgetting anything?

[sarcasmic]

Medicare Part D, NCLB, Patriot Act...

[John]

I really can't give you an answer to that Pro. Obama has been Bush plus a lot more. But it is a difference in intensity not necessarily quality.

[Anacreon]

Mostly people hated Bush's smirk.

[Episiarch]

It's not the policies, ProL. All that matters is the TEAM. Nothing else matters.

[Pro Libertate]

If I were running the LP, I'd publish long lists of things that sucked about Bush, with a list right next to it of the things Obama is continuing to do or has even done worse.

I agree the team business is a big part of the problem, but shove it in their faces. Make them admit to themselves and to others what they're doing. Sometimes, calling people out helps to wrench them free. I've got a liberal friend who is still liberal, but I've helped him begin to totally distrust people in government.

[Pain]

But Bush didn't care like our Dear Leader does.

[Stormy Dragon]

I don't think this chart really shows much of anything unless you make a lot of assumptions:
1. McCain was obviously preferable to Obama.
2. Older generations know what's right and should be considered the baseline for intelligent behavior.
3. Obama supporters thought his primary goal was to revolutionize Washington politics, and thus he should be rated solely on his ability to do so.
4. That a single person CAN revolutionize Washington, and thus a failure to do so can only be considered as a personal failure.

[John]

So since no one person can revolutionize Washington, you are okay with Obama going back on every single promise he made and totally fucking your generation with a mountain of debt.

Got it.

[Stormy Dragon]

Well, I'm not a Millenial (born in 77), nor did I vote for Obama (voted for Barr). I just think that all this chart shows is that the Millenials have huge political differences from older generations. Jumping from that to "Millenials are retarded" is just begging the question.

That said, I do not generally believe things would be any better now if McCain had won, and in many ways would be worse. The areas where Obama has been the biggest disappointment to me (civil liberties and rolling back our overseas imperialism), McCain has continually criticized Obama for not even going further. And on the spending issue, the Republicans (asside from a lot of empty rhetoric) has not demonstrated any more seriousness about restraining the balooning deficits than the Democrats have.

[John]

McCain would have been unable to go further in those things because the Democrats and the media would have never given him the pass they gave Obama. Do you really think McCain would have gotten away with bombing Libya for weeks with no Congressional authorization? The Congress would have impeached him. In many ways you are better off with a Republican President not because they want to care about civil liberties more but because Democrats are willing to care in such a situation.

And even if you are right, that doesn't justify their voting for him again. They should at the very least be staying home or voting third party.

[Ray]

Arguing which is worse, McCain or Obama, is like arguing which is worse, having you balls set on fire or having your balls cut off with a rusty spoon.

[sage]

"Jumping from that to "Millenials are retarded" is just begging the question."

Only if you accept YOUR premise that "all this chart shows is that the Millenials have huge political differences from older generations."

I don't.

[sage]

Choose a different handle please.

[Pro Libertate]

Is that antimatter universe sage? Maybe you'd better not comment directly next to him.

[Joshua Corning]

Is that antimatter universe sage?

No...only bizzaro sage.

[sage]

It looks like the resident spoofer trying to get into Epi's shit. Fortunately I'm on teh seecret email list and he tipped me off about it.

[SugarFree]

I think it's the twin you ate in your mother's womb.

[sage]

Feed us a fetus!

[fuck off and die]

"Choose a different handle please."

please.

[Joshua Corning]

What part of "largest age-based disparity ever recorded" confuses you?

[Stormy Dragon]

That's exactly what I mean. Unless we assume as given that older people MUST be right, the fact that you disagree with them in large numbers is not by itself proof of stupidity.

[k2000k]

True but the fact that 50% of millenials, who voted fir him, say Obama has failed to achieve what he promised yet only 25% of that 50% blame him is proof of just that.

[quasi]

Bob Barr... is that the dude who turned himself purple?

[BC]

(1) Are you suggesting that the Gen-Y turnout for Obama was driven by a "lesser of two evils" sentiment vis-a-vis McCain, rather than naive enthusiasm for the bullshit Obama was peddling? It would be interesting to see you substantiate that.

(2) Huh?

(3) His promise to revolutionize Washington politics was absolutely central to his entire campaign. It's entirely fair to assess his presidency in light of how well he's fulfilled that promise.

(4) That's all well and good, but, again: the promise to revolutionize Washington was central to his entire campaign. I don't disagree that it's an impossibility for any one person, but that doesn't mean it's inappropriate for voters to judge him on the basis of how well he's fulfilled that promise; it just means that he was a fucking retard for making it in the first place.

[Stormy Dragon]

2. The chart points out that there was a big disparity between the millenials voting pattern and the other generations. The only way the existence of a big difference alone can be a sign of stupidity is if we presume the older generations are necessarily right. Likewise it points out Milennials are as a group are more happy with the state of the country then older generations. Again, the only way that alone can be a sign of stupidity is we presume that the country is necessairly going the wrong way.

[BC]

The chart doesn't just point out a disparity; it also points out the nature of that disparity. Older generations split their votes about 50-50 between the parties; Gen-Y'ers voted for Obama by a 2-to-1 margin.

I don't have to presume that the older generations are right to say that Gen-Y'ers are morons. That level of partisan loyalty is ipso facto moronic, as illustrated daily around these parts by Tony.

[John]

McCain would have been unable to go further in those things because the Democrats and the media would have never given him the pass they gave Obama. Do you really think McCain would have gotten away with bombing Libya for weeks with no Congressional authorization? The Congress would have impeached him. In many ways you are better off with a Republican President not because they want to care about civil liberties more but because Democrats are willing to care in such a situation.

And even if you are right, that doesn't justify their voting for him again. They should at the very least be staying home or voting third party.

[sage]

"Jumping from that to "Millenials are retarded" is just begging the question."

Only if you accept YOUR premise that "all this chart shows is that the Millenials have huge political differences from older generations."

I don't.

[sage]

"3. Obama supporters knew he claimed his primary goal was to revolutionize Washington politics, and thus he should be rated solely on his ability to do so."

FTFY.

Hope and CHANGE, remember?

[Stormy Dragon]

Ah, so Change necessarily must be a promise to completely revolutionize the nature of American politics. Because someone running for president couldn't possibly merely proposing to change policy.

[k2000k]

Well lets par it back a bit. LEt's assume that millenials would acknowledge that fundementally changing Washington is impossible, though as a millenial I can testify that most would not think that hard about the impossibility of doing just that; it would then be responable to interpret his change mantra as saying he would be demonstrably different from President Bush.

My question is this: In what way has he been?

He didn't end Iraq and earlier than it was going to end.

He started another war in Libya, that is turning into real sectarian and tribal violence

He is even more secretive than Bush was

He has increased goverment spending

and so on and so forth?

He is black Bush, nothing more, nothing in less.

[Stormy Dragon]

He didn't end Iraq and earlier than it was going to end.

However, the Republicans have spent every day since then arguing it shouldn't be ending as fast as it did. So if you're upset the Iraq war lasted to long, are you going to vote for a Republican who is campaigning on a desire to essentially reinvade Iraq?

He started another war in Libya, that is turning into real sectarian and tribal violence

About which the Republicans are complaining he wasn't involved enough. Again, if you think this is a problem, are you going to vote for a Republican who thinks the main problem in Libya is that there's not American soldiers caught up in it?

He is even more secretive than Bush was

And yet he's reviled for doing too much to protect the civil rights of terrorists and of going after our own soldiers and CIA agents. Again, if you think of this as a problem are you going to vote for a Republican who wants to be even more secretive?

On all of the above three issues, you're right that Obama's supporters should be pissed. However he will still be a better option than the Republican on all those issues in November.

He has increased goverment spending

While I would certainly like to see spending decrease, I don't think Obama's supporters do. So it's hard to name this as a sign of their stupidity when they WANT spending to increase.

[Apatheist ?_??]

I'd try to defend my generation but I can't. Going to College and Law School during the election was incredibly depressing.

[John]

But Obama is so dreamy.

[ptwalker]

Naughty, naughty! Youngsters like yourself are supposed to refrain from using the "R" word (in my day it was a perfectly acceptable insult) to refer to anybody. In the future use a slightly less charged term when refering to your generation, like "fuckwits", for it is far more descriptive. If we get down to an Obama/Santorum showdown you should then feel free to use a term like "wondertards" or "completely fuckin' screwed" to refer to the electorate as a whole, for either would be applicable.

[John]

Obama v. Santorum. Which kind of people are more numerous in our grat country, young retards or old retards?

[ptwalker]

Quite true, it is a bit unfair to label the youngsters when it seems that paltry little things like $16T in debt concern Republican primary voters less than big issues like stuffing the gays back in the closet, shooting all the Mexicans or getting the 10 commandments carved on Mt. Rushmore.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Yeah, it is pissing me off that now retarded is off the list with a number of people in my generation, including my sister who is about 3 years older than me.

It is also annoying because once words like dumb, stupid, and idiot were the functional equivalent of 'retarded' and no one flips over those.

[Phos]

My wife hates the term retarded and especially 'tard. (We have a son with Aspergers.)

I have a engineering mindset so I just look at it as 'slower to get there' which seems a functionally accurate term.

If our test for intelligence is "voted for Obama" then half of the population never gets there.

[Joshua Corning]

The Pokemon generation voted for Obama to stop War.

[A Serious Man]

So does being born in 1991 make me Generation Y? I was never really clear on the scope of these concepts.

[sarcasmic]

That's the year I finished high school.
Thanks for making me feel old.

[Priestess]

That's the year my fourth child was born...you aint old.

[AlmightyJB]

Too bad the photo is blurry, but I bet she was beautiful.

[Tony]

Young progressives are perfectly aware of Obama's failures to remake the world into utopia, and are among his most coherent critics.

However, it is simply fact that most of what's wrong with Washington is the Republicans' fault. It is only to their advantage when people trot out the tired old equivalency argument.

[sage]

"However, it is simply fact that most of what's wrong with Washington is the Republicans' fault."

So, if you can't fix it while controlling congress and the executive, why should anyone believe you can do anything about it ever?

Congrats, you just admitted Dems were ineffective while holding total power.

I doubt you could have indicted them more harshly if you tried.

[Little Tony]

Well if we being republican a hate crime then we really could get some things done.

[BC]

fact

That word. I does not mean what you think it means.

[Joshua Corning]

So does being born in 1991 make me Generation Y?

Pokemon originally aired in the US on September 8, 1998

Yes.

[sarcasmic]

Christina Hendricks was a goth chick in highschool!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....retty.html

[John]

What is it with all of these people saying they were spit on in school? Is this a new thing. I went to a school were people got bullied and beat up all of the time and I never heard of anyone ever being spat on.

[No]

"Is this a new thing."

Not really, people have made shit up about what happened to them in high school forever.

[John]

Well that explains it then.

[SugarFree]

I did, in fact, have a friend get spat on right in front of me in high school.

But he had a funny haircut and therefore kinda had it coming.

[Killazontherun]

I saw a girl spit on another girl. But in self defense as the other girl came from behind and pulled on the spit sharer's hair for taking notice of her boyfriend. A lugie right in the mouth.

[Sku]

I never did, but my daughter got spit on by older kids when she was in Kindergarten. She also got told she wasn't allowed to run on the playground. Not sure who is worse - the bully older kids or the adminstration. I think she'd almost rather be spit on than told she can't run. On the playground. During recess.

[Proprietist]

It makes perfect sense. Ugly ducking gets mocked/bullied in middle/high school, turns into a beautiful swan in adulthood, and has extra motivation to become famous to rub their beauty and superiority in the face of their former bullies, who are now worthless nobodies. It's the sweetest revenge, I'm sure.

[Urkobold?]

NONSENSE. THAT WASN'T SPIT--IT WAS DROOL. YOUNG BOYS ARE CLOSER TO BREASTFEEDING AND EVEN MORE OBSESSIVE ABOUT MAMMARY GLANDS THAN THEIR OLDER CHROMOSOMAL ANALOGUES.

[AlmightyJB]

Preach it brother

[AlmightyJB]

posted this in the wrong place. squirrels.

Too bad the photo is blurry, but I bet she was beautiful.

[Proprietist]

http://www.bestweekever.tv/201.....goth-past/

She was definitely attractive, in that nerdy cute goth chick way.

[WTF]

"However, it was when Christina posed in a modelling competition after leaving school that she first felt attractive.
She told the Daily Mirror: 'When I got the pictures back my mum and I started crying because I had no idea I could be pretty."

What a load of horse shit. If you didn't think you were pretty, why would you even consider posing in a modeling competition in the first place?

[A Serious Man]

Also, I supported McCain in 2008 because I was cynical enough not to buy into Obama's bullshit that enraptured just about everyone in my graduating high school class. Luckily for me I didn't turn 18 until three weeks after the election, so my first presidential vote wasn't wasted on McCain (I hadn't discovered libertarianism yet at that point).

[Sudden]

Those under 30 generally self-associate with the left in larger numbers. It's the way things always have been. You can talk to them about how Obama is GW2.0 all you want, they'll agree, but to them at least he isn't thumping a bible like Sticky Icky Ricky or yachting like that vile 1%er Mitt.

Quite simply, the vast majority of people, whether under 30, over 65, or anywhere in between are just fucking idiots with no conception of how structurally imbalanced are finances really are and how there does not exist enough money to remedy that.

Our only hope is that these people are also too stupid to survive and reproduce in the coming budgetocalypse.

[Sudden]

...how structurally imbalanced are finances really are and how there does not exist enough money to remedy that.

Fucking Joe'z law strikes me on something I've never fucked up on since I was in elementary school. Of course when I call the entire population of humanity idiotic, this is what I do. go figure.

[Ray]

This correction is still wrong.

[Stormy Dragon]

Quite simply, the vast majority of people, whether under 30, over 65, or anywhere in between are just fucking idiots with no conception of how structurally imbalanced are finances really are

Or they know, but realize there's no one with a chance of winning who is actually going to have the political ability to change this. Anything that doesn't include major cuts to Social Security, Defense, and Medicare is just rearranging the deck chairs, and the Boomers have made it clear they are not, under any circumstances, going to allow that.

[Robert]

So where does it end? One year a dividing line where one power group gets out the last of the loot and machine guns everyone else in the streets? It's got to be worse than Greece, because their trouble is mitigated by the existence of suckers in richer countries.

[Joshua Corning]

Medical advancements, lower risk of occupational accidents, and simple math favors a large number of old retards.

[Tony]

Young progressives are perfectly aware of Obama's failures to remake the world into utopia, and are among his most coherent critics.

However, it is simply fact that most of what's wrong with Washington is the Republicans' fault. It is only to their advantage when people trot out the tired old equivalency argument.

[Dead Muslim children]

Yeah, we totally blame Booosh for forcing Obama to wage an illegal, immoral drone shadow war in Afghanistan/Pakistan that kills 30 innocents for every 1 suspected terrorist killed.

[sage]

"However, it is simply fact that most of what's wrong with Washington is the Republicans' fault."

So, if you can't fix it while controlling congress and the executive, why should anyone believe you can do anything about it ever?

Congrats, you just admitted Dems were ineffective while holding total power.

I doubt you could have indicted them more harshly if you tried.

[Tony]

This pretend ignorance game you guys play, you who are not supposed to be partisans, is really quite tiresome. Democrats never had absolute control of the government. And they're not perfect. But it was Republicans who turned legislating into a corporate favors machine and politics into a perpetual exercise in zero-sum apocalyptic resentment.

I long for a world in which the foibles of Democrats are worth bitching about.

[Liar]

"Democrats never had absolute control of the government."

Liar.

[Tony]

Filibuster + Ben Nelson/Joe Lieberman does not = total control of government.

Only idiot Republican hacks even make this argument anyway.

I'd have almost nothing to say if there were actual libertarians here instead of flocks of FOX News sheeple.

[rac3rx]

Really? Because the last time I checked the Donks controlled Congress for most of the 20th century and then again from 2007 until the Efs took only 1/2 of 1 branch again in 2010. Obama & his party had 2 of 3 branches for his first 2 years in office, so I don't see any "pretend" to it. There's blame to go around completely, but your people really do bear the brunt of it.

[cw]

He's a Democratic Party stooge. No convincing him.

[cw]

My God, Tony, you are such a blind partisan hack. Exactly what's wrong with this country.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Tiny,

However, it is simply fact that most of what's wrong with Washington is the Republicans' fault.

"They are simply too squeamish and yellow to totally destroy the country's economy to usher in the revolution once and for all."

[Leftist Behavior]

Remember that 61% voted for LBJ over Goldwater, so stupidity in political elections is nothing new.

[A Serious Man]

Funny, I just wrote a midterm essay for my history class explaining how Goldwater saved American conservatism, set the stage for Reagan, and for good measure planted the seeds of the libertarian movement. History was written by the loser that year.

[Realist]

When everyone can vote everyone loses.

[shrike]

Let me know when Obama -

1- Lies us into a trillion dollar war
2- crashes the economy/markets
3- adds $1.5 trillion to the DEFICIT.

DEFICIT - not "debt" for you non-accounting types.

I could go on - but this place is seriously biased to conservatives.

[John]

Obama just continued said war and spent a 1/2 trillion or more on them and started a real no kidding illegal war to boot.

Let me know when Bush assassinated American citizens or sent thousands of guns to Mexican drug dealers. And let me know when Bush passed a trillion dollar stimulus that was nothing but free money for his campaign donors.

And let me know when "they did it too" was a fucking excuse for anything. And let me know when making every single thing he touched worse means Obama was a good President.

[shrike]

Iraq was the trillion dollar war, but you know that. Libya is not a war. No false equivalence allowed.

1-2-3 (above) Obama did none of those. So no "they did it too".

[John]

Obama continued the war for three years after he got in office and ended it exactly the day Bush planned to end it. So he owns that and Afghanistan, which continues to this day just as much as Bush does.

And Libya not being a war will come as a hell of a surprise to the 1000s of people we bombed over there you deranged halfwit.

Again, Obama took everything Bush did and did it bigger and worse.

[shrike]

There is not a shred of honesty in you.

[WTF]

Not enough 'christ-fag'.

[shirk is a faggot]

Says the person who notoriously lies and hides when disproven.

[In other words]

"There is not a shred of honesty in you."

So disprove it asshole.

[John]

I am completely honest. You just can't face the truth.

[Or]

"You just can't face the truth."

Or refute it.

At least not without blaming Bush for shit Obama did.

[Tony]

John is blaming Obama for Iraq. He is being a lying hack and everyone can see it who's not equally a Bush apologist.

[hi shrike]

^

[John]

No Tony. I am pointing out the fact that Obama continued the war in Iraq and ended it three years into his term at the exact moment Bush planned to end it.

You are a lying hack who won't accept the reality of what Obama has done. He has made a complete fool of you. And you are so pathetic you can't even dislike him for it.

[It's not Tony]

fyi

[Tony]

What are you criticizing? He could have ended it a year sooner and you'd hate him just as much. I have no problem with how Obama ended the Iraq war, or that it was Bush's plan. Who gives a fuck?

What Obama didn't do is start a war on false pretenses and get 4000 Americans killed. That makes him superior on the "wars based on lies" front. Sorry.

[Tim]

That makes him superior

That statement is why you're so roundly despised, you think it's about him being superior to a total screwup, despite being told that isn't the criteria others use.

[Tony]

But the desperate pleading to make sure he's considered exactly as much a screwup is simply, obviously a fallacy.

[jacob the barbarian]

actually asshole, he is worse than Bush. The difference is no one here is defending Bush, and you dipshit defense that he is superior to Bush us facile. That you are so blind to it makes you pathetic.

[Joshua Corning]

In 3 years Obama increased deficit spending more then Bush did in 8.

So if Bush was the worse president then Obama is more then twice as bad as the worse president.

By the way CBO say 15% unemployment....and the longest period of said unemployment since the great depression.

[shrike]

Bullshit. Bush left a $1.3 trillion annual deficit (not debt).

Its forecast to be $1 trillion this year.

And Obama has failed to "cut it in half" like he famously promised.

[shirk is a faggot]

"Bullshit. Bush left a $1.3 trillion annual deficit (not debt).

Its forecast to be $1 trillion this year."

Stop lying.

[John]

How many times do we have to explain to you how that figure is fucking lie? Obama was President for most of the year. That is Obama's deficit you lying sack of shit.

[shrike]

Call Mises a liar then.

http://wp.mises.org/blog/change_by_prez1.jpg

You can't run from the truth.

[John]

Then I will. The facts are what they are.

[The unemployed and homeless]

"Call Mises a liar then."

Or maybe you could stop pretending something we all know to be true is disproven by a third grade level, incredibly unsophisticated graph.

Would you like to break that out by MONTHS asshole?

Make an excuse.

[NPR SAYS FUCK YOU SHIRK]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/.....sh-on-debt

"It's not often that one gets to hear a call for "responsible" fiscal stewardship from someone whose deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year"

[shrike]

http://www.politifact.com/trut.....istration/

CBO link trumps NPR

[No it doesn't]

And nothing you posted there refutes the FACT that Obama's "deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year".

You lose.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

What is the original article this graph appears in? I'll search on Mises, but a link to the original article would be swell. Thanks!

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Nevermind. Found it.

*Sometimes graphs and other visual aids are more helpful in context.

[Shrike is a liar]

http://mistercaps.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/pay-up/

[shirk is a faggot]

"1- Lies us into a trillion dollar war
2- crashes the economy/markets
3- adds $1.5 trillion to the DEFICIT."

He did all three.

[NPR SAYS FUCK YOU SHREK]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/.....sh-on-debt

It's not often that one gets to hear a call for "responsible" fiscal stewardship from someone whose deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year ? yet that's apparently what we'll get to hear tonight. But President Obama's actions tell another, far clearer, story about his commitment to deficit reduction.

[shrike]

Some asshole from the Air Force academy?

Fuck you. I use the CBO.

[No it doesn't]

And nothing you posted there refutes the FACT that Obama's "deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year".

You lose.

"I use the CBO."

You lie too.

[?]

But Obama is so dreamy.

You've found the bright side.

Obama can only be President one more time, and no one who's set to come up behind him will trigger the "guy I bang during 'study abroad'"/"my professor is also my dealer" fantasies he does, so once he's gone, these kid voters will revert to being regular idiots and assholes, not a crazed cult of idiots and assholes.

HOPE

[Sudden]

who's set to come up behind him

There's a Santorum joke in there somewhere.

[shrike]

+900 basis point improvement in GDP
+550 on the S&P 500 Index -
32 consecutive months of private sector job growth
inflation nearly dead at 2% CPI
interest rates near lows at 4%
largest US monthly exports ever at $180 billion in October
taxes at lows in terms of % GDP
earnings of S&P 500 best ever at $102
Banks are back to safe balance sheets
stopped the Bush deficit at $1.3 trillion

Eat that, bitch.

[The unemployed and homeless]

"Eat that, bitch."

That's great, but why are YOU touting positive bank figures?

That's not why Obama was elected asshole.

SUCK IT.

[shrike]

Obama forced the banks to raise capital so they could repay Bushy-Boys TARP program.

Remember TARP? The GOP answer to financial disaster?

[NPR SAYS FUCK YOU SHIRK]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/.....sh-on-debt

"It's not often that one gets to hear a call for "responsible" fiscal stewardship from someone whose deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year"

[AND AGAIN CAUSE YOU'RE STUPID]

That's great, but why are YOU touting positive bank figures?

That's not why Obama was elected asshole.

SUCK IT.

[Rob McMillin]

You mean, the TARP that Obama voted for?

[Ray]

I vaguely remember TARP, that program that Obama voted for.

[Ray]

Crap, Rob beat me to it.

[Sku]

] Inflation nearly dead at 2%

If you don't count the $4 a gallon I just paid for gas (vs. the $2 I paid under Bush) and the $1.99 per pound I just paid for apples (vs. the 99 cents I paid under Bush). The cost of my home sure went down though! Too bad I already bought it eight years ago.

But, yes, *overall*, inflation does tend to get curbed when your unemployment rate doubles. Hell, bring on a nice great depression, and you might even get deflation.

[shrike]

whoops - comment placement error.

Meant upstream. My bad.

[The unemployed and homeless]

Doesn't matter, one steaming pile of yours is the same as another, fudge numbers, lie, and call names.

[shrike]

Go fuck Santorum in the ass. Loosen that fecal rot up some.

[AND AGAIN CAUSE YOU'RE STUPID]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/.....sh-on-debt

"It's not often that one gets to hear a call for "responsible" fiscal stewardship from someone whose deficit spending is outpacing President Bush's by more than $1 trillion a year"

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

I'm 23.

First of all, some of this generation is smart, and fucking hates our peers and finds them insufferable. And when I see shit like this, I think, "Bullshit. I hang out with plenty of smart people."

But then I remember the kids at my liberal arts college (P Brooks is also an alum!) and go, "Yeah... they were fucktards, which is why we didn't hang out."

If I had to venture a guess as to why, I think the increasing trend of studying abroad, even for kids who can't really afford it or gain nothing from the experience*, has exposed a lot more people to European systems, which has made them come back and go, "Aw, man, in Germany, I could get a train to any beer hall, and it was so chill, man. Also, I broke my leg, and they totally took care of me for free!"

*I did not study abroad. I am much too much a homebody to do that shit.

[John]

It is funny. I studied abroad. And I came back thinking "people were really fucking poor there. They lived in these tiny houses or flats and often couldn't afford to own a car. And all the stores closed at six. And you didn't get ice or free refills on your sodas. Where the hell is a 7-11, I want a Big Gulp".

[Sudden]

For as much as I disagree with him on a great deal of his foreign policy and social policy preferences, Mark Steyn actually writes rather eloquently on how existence in an unsustainable and declining post industrial power can seem rather blissful for a time prior to the fullscale collapse.

[Pro Libertate]

Of course, no group of that size is monolithic. The popularity of Paul with the young shows that there may be some sanity there (though many may like him for reasons that don't actually make any sense).

[Sudden]

I always find it comical when someone says they support RP because they can't stand corporations. I mean, there is a rationale that a Paul administration would seek to strip govt of power and thereby take power away from lobbying interests, but that is far more nuanced than many of those RP voters seem to grasp. I think a great many actually expect him to legislate the abolition of the corporate structure. I don't bother arguing since I'll take a vote for sanity, even if the vote is itself insane.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Dude, I once had an English teacher in high school who decided to show us The Corporation. You know, that propaganda film about how corporations are sociopaths?

To the class' credit, the next day, most of us came in with examples of how the film was bullshit.

On the other hand, I probably had to see Bowling for Columbine twice in high school, and both times I came out of it with, "So, guns aren't bad, because you contrast with Canada. The NRA is kind of bad, because they are racist or something. Charlton Heston is kind of a dick for showing up after kids kill themselves. Welfare reform was bad. Canada is better because their media is less sensationalist... What the fuck is your point and how the fuck is this related to Columbine again?"

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, that's some serious confusion.

[Ray]

The young like him because of his stance on drug decriminalization. And they only support that because they want to smoke pot without being hassled by cops.

[Mike M.]

Don't feel bad, this is nothing new. Most young people are stupid, political ignoramuses in every generation. Then, most of them (though sadly not all) eventually grow up, pay taxes, and become more mature.

[Gen Y]

Then, most of them (though sadly not all) eventually grow up , pay taxes, and become more mature.

FTFY

[Joshua Corning]

Obligitory Obama voters are stupid video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Also, one last thing: I think the Republicans really, really hurt themselves with their stances on gay rights. To many in my generation, they come off as mean, nasty bigots.

[sarcasmic]

That's because your generation is a bunch of thin skinned pussies who have been led to believe that you have a right to walk through life without ever having to be exposed to anything that might offend your fragile sensibilities.

Boo fucking hoo.

You can find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

[John]

That is comment of the day sarcasmic. We may not agree about women. But damn, I wish I had written that.

[sarcasmic]

Thanks!

Also, chicken fried chicken livers.

[NoVAHockey]

I'm going to file that one away for future use, if you don't mind.

[WTF]

Winner!

[WTF]

And yeah, I'm totally stealing that.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

I don't disagree, but I mean it more in the sense of, say, Santorum equating homosexuality with bestiality. Or the general opposition to gay marriage.

I can give a shit less if people want to say fag, or whatever the fuck, but I do have an issue with the current GOP. I'm not one to get on my high horse and talk about Civil Rights, because that's a bullshit comparison, but yeah, social conservative don't come off well to a lot of young people, and I don't see why they should.

[Sudden]

I agree with your central premise that the GOP is fucking itself over with its stance on TEH GHEYZ!!1!!1!!1!! but it goes to show you how absolutely jacked up our generations priorities are.

I support gay marriage, but as it stands right now, no one is being prosecuted, imprisoned, tortured, or killed for calling themselves married to another dude. It's a fundamental right as part of the right to contract, but it's also rather meaningless to get govt recognition of your bond if said govt collapses entirely or the various benefits conferred through that bond are rendered moot due to economic armageddon. Quite simply, I don't care if someone says "I hate fags and will make sure they can never marry while I'm POTUS, but btw, I'll totally fix the entitlement crisis and stop being world police", that guy gets my vote a thousand times over.

Simply put: Priorities matter. You gotta worry about where you shit before you worry about what you read while shitting.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Hey, no argument here. But it is I think just one facet of the fact that the young are super susceptible to emotional arguments.

[Tony]

The thing about gays is we are exceptionally organized. How do you think gay marriage became a part of national discourse even among all the other issues?

[Pro Libertate]

Ghalfa, the distraction.

[Tony]

That'll win them over.

You know you could try not looking for reasons to oppress people for how they were born.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

And here we see MY problem with the gay rights movement: You weren't born that way, because phenotype and genotype are different things. Your genes may express themselves that way, although given how little we understand about the human brain and human sexuality, to chalk it up to a single genetic factor is useless.

Also, I forgot one other reason my generation sucks: They made Lady Gaga a pop star.

[Tony]

I didn't say anything about a single genetic factor.

Sarcasmic, freedom lover, twists himself in knots finding reasons to oppose marriage equality.

But he's only a particularly idiotic variation of the libertarian species, who universally carry more judgment and scorn than average, and who don't seem to realize just how poorly that attitude would serve them in the quasi-anarchic society they claim to favor.

Not that it's surprising in the least, since it's freedom for themselves they care about, while everyone else can literally die for all they care.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Tony, just because you like to suck dick doesn't mean you have to be one.

[Tony]

In other words, "here Tony, let me confirm what you just said."

[cw]

Wow, he didn't say anywhere that he opposes gay marriage, just that, compared to other issues, it isn't high on his list.

Now fuck off, Team Blue hack.

[Joshua Corning]

to walk through life without ever having to be exposed to anything that might offend your fragile sensibilities.

Many of the pokemon generation are now Irag and Afganistan war vets....and the crazy fucks are still running head long into joining the armed forces.

They also have the worse job market this county has seen since the great depression.....and you and i who came of employment age in the 90s could hardly fall out of graduation without getting a job.

Oh yeah Obama and Bush have spent 20 years or more of the pokemon generations future on TARP and solyndra.

They may be stupid for supporting Obama...but i do not envy them nor considering the world they have inherited think of them as pussies.

[John]

Many of the pokemon generation are now Irag and Afganistan war vets....and the crazy fucks are still running head long into joining the armed forces.

They also have the worse job market this county has seen since the great depression..

Gee Joshua one could have something to do with the other.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Yeah, I have a buddy who is training for the Rangers. I respect the hell out of him, but man do I not envy him.

[Joshua Corning]

Gee Joshua one could have something to do with the other.

I have no doubt they have everything to do with one another...

But that makes them stupid...not pussies.

[Killazontherun]

.and you and i who came of employment age in the 90s could hardly fall out of graduation without getting a job.

You got that right. I remember being astounded by the organizations that were trying to recruit me in the Spring of my graduating year. I spent 1990 to 2002 working at interesting places and deciding to change up every few years doing entirely different things without much in the way of financial hick-ups in between.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Also, sarcasmic, and I mean this with all due seriousness: Take your dick. Now, bend it back. Yep, right between your legs. Now, keep bending it back until you start to feel it tickle your asshole, and go fuck yourself.

If you need a diagram, I can post it.

[Joshua Corning]

The worse part is that sarcastic is emulating baby boomers in that baby boomers characterized gen x as slackers and ultra violent hooligans...which considering the historically low unemployment numbers and dropping crime rates of the 90s was the exact opposite of the truth.

By calling the pokeman generation pussies he is saying the exact opposite of the truth, in the face of some pretty obvious facts.

[sarcasmic]

Every generation looks upon the younger with scorn.

[kinnath]

I don't think that Gen Y is necessarily any stupider than any other cohort of newly minted adults.

This generation has taken the full brunt of the self-esteem over performance education model. My kids (now in their 30's) suffered the prototype educational models that were inflicted on the Gen Y.

This new generation is fixated on mobile devices and social media. It amplifies the group-over-individual educational crap they lived through.

Obama exploited both of these factors in away that was truly breath-taking. He made the GenY'ers feel like they were an integral part of a tidal wave of change.

The only shocking part is that fourt years later, GenY'ers still buy the bullshit that Obama is selling.

[k2000k]

Well if Ron Paul is indicative of anything then that is changing. My younger brother and his friends are seniors in college and they are absolutely frothing at the mouth about Mr. Paul. They even took turns standing guard over a section of Ron Paul campaign signs that were being knocked over. He makes almost nothing as a student bag boy at a grocery store but he keeps buying Ron Paul merchandize to support the campaign and even went so far as to figure out where to caucus in march. This is a kid who couldn't be bothered to turn in his college application without our mother literaly stand over him making him do it.

[k2000k]

I men highschool not college

[Jon]

I am a member of this group. I voted for Obama. Then I realized I am a Libertarian, not a Liberal.

[Rob McMillin]

For a smattering of what Obama's done that should appall young progressives, see:

[...]

But you know what, Tim? None of this matters. You assume they actually have principles they give a shit about. Instead, they'll be happy -- as the Republican base was in the Bush era -- to wave their colored flag, point to his very limited achievements (ending a war or two, even though the "withdrawal" in Iraq looks suspiciously like a private occupation). They care about the words he says -- and he does not slip, as Ron Paul does, on matters of abortion. He faithfully says the right thing on racial matters, unlike Paul, whose past contains some real black marks.

I do not say these things because I am a Paul critic particularly -- I think he has the best chance of any libertarian-leaning candidate of the last 20 years, and would vote for him if I were a registered Republican (which I haven't been for most of that time) -- but because I think the left has their prejudices about what is and is not acceptable discourse, and vote accordingly. Don't frame the current debate over forcing the Catholic Church as one of religious freedom? Get on the bus. Saying the opposite will get you kicked off.

[Rob McMillin]

Er, Mike.

[Mike]

One way that slave masters kept slaves under control was to not allow them to be educated.

The Progressives in America do the same to the masses who go through the public education (baby sitting) system.

Keep them dumb and dependent on the government. Gen Y has not grown up intellectually or emotionally.

[Alan]

Yes. It's always worth reading John Taylor Gatto on the subject.

[Sirc]

Jason Calcanis summed the Gen Y nicely up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpuAggEyHfk

[Danno]

Generation Y is by far the dumbest, most sheep-like generation who ever existed on this world. They grew up wearing school uniforms, peeing into cups to prove their innocence and feeling like they were responsible for all of mankind's woes. Prove me wrong, pussies!

[Gen Tard]

This is like the worst chat room ever.

[Private Idaho]

There's no such thing as a neatly and precisely defined "generation." People are born every minute of every day. Judging people by when they were born is determinist/collectivist nonsense.

[Liberty]

... a week ago, there was an article on this website making fun of various liberals with lines like: "Why are there so few liberals?"

... and then, here, a week later, Reason manages to prove, very emphatically, why there are so very, very few "libertarians." 🙂

[Rob McMillin]

This article strikes me as being terribly counterproductive to the Cause.

[Joshua Corning]

I think one characteristic of the pokemon generation is it tends to bow to authority.

They join the military without question, they accept a deplorable economy without question, they protest the opposition party...In wide margins they think the country is going in the right direction.

Hell the whole OWS movement was a call for more authority over them.

There seems in my mind a lack of rebellion against the establishment in today's youth...and that makes me sad.

[Rob McMillin]

I think one characteristic of the pokemon generation is it tends to bow to authority.

This is new?

[Tulpa]

They like the appearance of rebellion. That's all OWS is.

Granted, for the most part the segment of Gen Y that I come in contact with is relatively privileged and would stand to lose a lot if they truly rebelled, so maybe my perception on this topic is off.

But at least the Boomer hippies and Gen X punk rockers knew what they wanted.

[mike]

I can never understand using the word retarded to explain away anything. Retarded doesn't mean stupid. It takes so little to acknowledge what people with special needs are asking for. A little dignity and to stop using the word retard and retarded as pejorative. How difficult is that to get?

[happy mcsmiley]

I can never understand using the word retarded to explain away anything.

So you would object to someone saying:

"The fire was retarded by the addition of heavy halogens which coupled spin-orbit coupling and quenched the free radical propagation step in the combustion reaction"?

[the nasty guy]

fuck off, retard

[Ray]

Point taken. Gen Y is gay.

[Robert]

Then tell me what "stupid" means? Does it not mean "of low intelligence"?

[happy mcsmiley]

The good news, Gen Y, is that it is not too late to form a different opinion.

Don't fear, Riggs, time will work its magic on the millenials as it does on every generation. The millenials will lose their political diapers, understand that not everything the police or the military does is evil or unnecessary and that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I would add that the millenials will come to realize that their parents were right except that their parents are baby boomers.

[Tulpa]

Gen Y's parents are Gen X.

[karlor]

So now the old fart corporate anarchist & middle - aged, paranoid, Dale Gribble type libertarians have come together to sling shit.
Meanwhile, Gen Y readers like myself scroll through the comments with a smirk because our toys were WAYYYY cooler.

[Bill]

Please discontinue using the word "retarded" in this context. It is highly offensive to parents with special needs children and not indicative of a serious publication.

[Ray]

Are your special needs kids retarded?

[Robert]

Would you prefer their children be called "stupid"? That's the trouble with euphemisms: They don't remain such. People find out what they mean, at which point they don't work that way any more.

[73899394]

Just look at the progression

progressive -> communist -> socialist -> liberal -> brain dead fool

[sarcasmic]

You might find this entertaining.

Or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwxgL1wdRFc

[Bruce]

The two largest voting blocs for Hitler were young people and rural people. Those two groups were the least sophisticated and knowledgeable, and the most easily drawn into Hitler's promises of grandeur.

There's nothing new under the sun.

[agathis]

Look: they're young. None of them have a principled opinion on politics because they haven't had time to form one yet, even those who consider themselves politically engaged. They are overly responsive to emotional arguments about politics. They haven't yet had to support themselves, so they have no clue about economic realities. And the sad thing is that most Americans never form a cohesive, principled position on politics. For most, it's about what they'll get--pure self-interest. When it comes to economics, libertarians and conservatives (sometimes) are the responsible party and liberals aren't. Liberals are always offering free lunches, and many Americans are willing to take them without thinking through the consequences of doing so.

The current reality will hit them hard. They might vote for Obama now, but give them a few more years of the current reality and then see where they stand. Thankfully, most of them don't vote.

[LP]

More than any other generation, Gen Y has been told they are incredibly smart and special- even if all they do is play Angry Birds and sext. So of course that leads to spectacular levels of idiocy.

[Brian from Texas]

I was listening to a radio show last night where they were playing clips from Jersey Shore. Those people make Beavis & Butthead look like Rhodes Scholars!

[Trudy]

Doesn't congress pass the laws? The president really doesn't have that much power anyway.

[Rob Tomorrow]

The only part of this article that convinced me that generation Y is dumb is the opinion of the author, but then that would be judging the many based on a single individual.

[Rob Tomorrow]

To suggest that a Ron Paul Presidency, with his proposal to abolish income tax or "end the Fed" ,would be preferable, or that the only thing at stake with a Santorum Presidency is the availability of condoms is beyond stupid.

[Vote Prohibition]

http://www.prohibitionparty.org/index.html

[Phos]

In 2008 voter turnout for those under 30 was only about 53%. While turnout for the 65-74 was 72%.

2/3 of 53% = 35.3%
1/2 of 72% = 36%

[H. Reardon]

QED. For what, I have no idea.

[Rob Tomorrow]

It takes a little bit of thought which apparently the Y generation, according to the author, is incapable of.

[H. Reardon]

Your teachers may have successfully taught you and Phos arithmetic, but applied mathematics was obviously lost on you.

[Rob Tomorrow]

I guess I have to spell it out for you,
Of all those eligible to vote under 30
47% didn't vote
17.5% voted against Obama
35.5% voted for Obama

Of all those eligible to vote over 65-74
28% didn't vote
36% voted against Obama
36% voted for Obama
In other words there is little difference between the two age groups if you consider all eligible voters in the percentage who voted for Obama

[H. Reardon]

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Is your argument that the young voters are just as smart as the elderly voters, or that the elderly voters are just as retarded as the young voters?

How about this analysis, using your arithmetic - the elderly vote was split 50-50 while the youth vote was 2-to-1 for Obama, a significant difference between the two voting groups.

[Rob Tomorrow]

Whether voting for Obama was stupid or whether the stupidity lies in the analysis in the article above I have already addressed in other posts.
Your arithmetic is the same as is stated in the article Pho was presenting the numbers from another perceptive, maybe libertarians have difficulty looking at things from more than one perspective, if that's the case then there is not much more that I can do.

[H. Reardon]

For some reason, you're trying to draw some equivalence between two groups by focusing on a subset of statistical data while ignoring the data which shows them to be highly divergent. I have no problem looking at this from your perspective, just don't expect me to accept it at face value. Yes, the stupidity lies in the analysis.

[foobaz]

@Phos, I appreciate the math factoid, because it does tend to explain the situation. The young kids in 2008 were not being foolish voting for Obama, or at least, no more foolish than all the other generations that heard some nice rhetoric. About half vote democrat (sometimes holding their nose and wishing they could vote social-libertarian or green party), and about half vote repub (sometimes holding their nose and wishing they could vote fiscal-libertarian or constitution). The numbers basically say, under that somewhat-reasonable assumption, that the number of obama-voters in their 20s was not especially large... just that the number of obama-voters who overcame the usual youth-related issues with transport and attention-span and lethargy and other tasks, and made it to a polling-place on the right day, was terribly one-sided. Obama inspired the kids who were on his side already to get out and vote, far more than McCain did. That said...

@Rob, the question is not whether a vote in 2008 for Obama was stupid, as you imply -- he was a first-timer. The question is whether *another* vote for him in 2012 would be stupid, which is what the article is trying to imply; half of young voters believe that Obama *did* change DC, and another 30% know he didn't but believe he is not at fault for behaving without transparency since Bush did it too, not at fault for using slimeball tactics to push through his pet legistation since Repubs have done that, not at fault for the Patriot Act extension since Bush did it first, not at fault for Libya or privatized occupation of Iraq because Bush did something kinda like it first, and so on. I agree with you that Santorum might not be any solution to those complaints... he is also a first-timer. And not that popular in this neck of the interwoods. But saying that Ron Paul would be secretive, would start wars rather than end them, would keep the Patriot-acronym act, would spend lavishly -- either you are mistaking him for just another Repub, or you don't realize he's serious about what he says.

In other comments you hint that Paul's plan to eventually repeal the income tax (along with a ton of other taxes in the immediate near-term), and someday end the Federal Reserve (i.e. devolve the functions thereof to the private market and/or to state-level banking laws) would not be "preferable" to Obama's policies. One can argue about such things, of course... and the main argument is that Ron Paul could not, even if elected as president, accomplish such long-term goals right off the bat, all by himself. (Ummm, amendment to the constitution? separation of powers? all things Follow-The-Constitution Paul would never try to slimeball his way past... see his website if you want his detailed blow by blow actual plan.) Do you have a specific complaint about Paul, something he would not do, that Obama has been doing? Maybe it will also help if you say what particular part of which particular year's defense budget you wanted Obama to veto that he didn't. As for blaming the state of the economy on Obama -- I agree that Bush is equally to blame for the bailout mess -- but that *was* four years ago, and Obama *did* vote for it, plus seemed bent on helping make bailouts bigger and worse every chance he got. As for the overall economy, compare Obama's performance with a pliant congress to Bill Clinton's first two years, for example -- who also tried to institute a national health care system. You can say that Obama has spent less than FDR, I guess... but the connotation that *any* repub would have done the same, and in particular that any current repub candidate will not do anything differently than Obama, is pretty wide of the mark.

[Rob Tomorrow]

Everything you ssked is irrelevant because Ron Paul doesn't have a ghost of a chance of winning the primary let alone the general. Sorry.

[foobaz]

Actually, I asked because I'm trying to understand your position; you seem to be saying that Obama is not worse than some of the Repubs (who talk small govt but then spend like maniacs) but that he *is* preferable to them... for what exactly? I'm guessing social policy, but that's a pretty broad area. For instance, some people actually *want* the feds to be involved in creation of a nat'l healthcare system, i.e. the public option for insurance, and you hinted that was where you were at. Other people are against that for reasons of cost and/or philosophy, but hate to vote for social-bigot repubs, and thus -- falsely believing all repubs are like that -- find voting for Obama preferable (even if they don't agree with him on healthcare policy).

So, the reason I brought up Ron Paul is to point out that libertarian-side repubs are definitely against any sort of fed-level healthcare system, for cost & philosophy reasons, but that doesn't entail that they are all automatically social bigots on issues like gay marriage for instance. As for non-libertarian repubs, contrast with Romney, who wants to 'repeal' obamacare... but then will prolly immediately create a repub-style fed-level romneycare (cf Massachusetts). Santorum is definitely a social bigot, but Paul is not; Romney is hard to pin down on a firm answer. Anyway, the point is, are you dead set on fed-level healthcare for philosophical reasons, and thus think that the cost is not relevant, in the same way that if we were invaded by Canadians (to pick a non-controversial example) you would want to spend as much as it took to send them back over the 49th parallel? If you aren't one of those ideologically invested in federal healthcare, it's still fair to say you prefer Obama for reason X & Y & Z, but it's not fair to tar all the repubs with the broad brush of social bigotry (i.e. make Obama look like the only option), because they aren't all like Santorum -- I would argue *most* are not. That thing about judging the group based on the behavior of the individual, which you mentioned earlier.

P.S. As for the topic of Ron Paul's chances, you are predicting the finish a bit early. Only about 10% of the *nonbinding* delegates have even been polled yet. I'm waiting for Super Tuesday, which will give us a pretty decent snapshot of the chances the four finalists have. Paul actually beat Romney in some of the soon-to-come states back in 2008, and in the recent battles -- which I admit he has lost so far with the possible exception of Maine -- he has still been polling much higher than in 2008 (especially in terms of actual delegates achieved). He is not yet a ghost, any more than Santorum and Gingrich. The repub battle is still wide open, and will stay that way at least until the ides of March -- maybe longer if super tuesday does not create a clear winner. As for the national election, popularity polls give Paul the second-best-chance against Obama:

43.9 mitt vs 47.6 for obama, + 3.7 dems, but 8.5% undecided
41.2 paul vs 48.4 for obama, + 7.2 dems, but 10.4% undecided
40.9 rick vs 50.0 for obama, + 9.1 dems, but 9.1% undecided
38.7 newt vs 52.3 for obama, +13.6 dems, but 9.0% undecided

Avgs of Jan&Feb; polling numbers after excluding best&worst; result, using polling data here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....tion,_2012

Of course, since the presidential election is really decided by the electoral college voters, especially in those the darned swing states, these direct-popular-nationwide-votes are not a very good indicator of who will *be* the president. Plus they are samples of 1k people out of 300M people... even the pollsters don't claim anything beyond ?3 accuracy max, which could mean in a *real* nationwide poll mitt would get 47 versus just 44 to obama... or a blowout of 41 for mitt versus 51 for obama... not even mentioning the fact that perhaps half the eligible folks bother to vote at all... and as you'll notice about the undecided-voters are always bigger than the gap (and Ron Paul has the most of those potential converts at the moment).

Point being, these numbers don't predict the general election. However, they *are* a decent indicator of relative electability for the *repub* candidates to each other, since more popularity nationwide *does* translate into electoral votes, other things being equal. After another month or two of media coverage and polls, we'll be able to see which of the repub candidates goes up (people like more as they learn more) and which of them drops downwards. But at the moment, Ron Paul is #2, even with paltry media attention as evidenced by the excess still-undecided potential.

[James Anderson Merritt]

"John McCain was (and still is) repulsively old and cranky."

And back around the time of the First Crusade, John McCain was repulsively YOUNG and cranky. What's your point?

[KB]

Calling people who disagree with you stupid simply because they disagree with you REEKS of the elitist bullshit attitude the conservatives are always accusing the progressives of. Really? I only voted for Obama because I didn't know any better? Wow. How about this. Do less thinking for me and do more for yourself.

[Rob Tomorrow]

My sentiments exactly. The only stupidity evidenced here is the author's.

[Nyarlathotep]

Sorry, kiddies: unless you intentionally voted for the extension of the Patriot Act, for the continuation of roving wiretaps, for a secret drone war in Pakistan, for the assassination of American citizens without due process and for the tripling of the deficit, you voted for Obama because you didn't know any better. Now get off my lawn and get a job.

[Rob Tomorrow]

The deficit has not tripled on Obama's watch you must me mistaking him for President Reagan. The substantial increase that has occurred during the last three years are due to the worst financial crisis since the great depression brought on by the mismanagement of the economy by government over the last thirty years. Including the bailout of the banking industry under President Bush.
(see chart)
http://robfenwick.com/monopoly/deficet2.jpg

[Rob Tomorrow]

I have my disappointments with President Obama, not vetoing NDAA is one, not pushing for the Public Option he campaigned for is another. But blaming the state of the economy all on him is the thinking of an imbecile. And suggesting that Ron Paul or Rick Sanatorium would do a better job is ludicrous. And I have a job thank you.

[foobaz]

Yes, blaming one person for the economy would not be fair. And yes, if you want to blame somebody for the debt bubble, Reagan-and-the-democratic-congress were the first to start the ball rolling... and every politician since then, Clinton-plus-Gingrich to Bush2 and Obama, has done exactly the same thing: failed to fix the problem.

But to bring the discussion back to the point brought up by the original article, why do people believe what Obama says? You point out that he campaigned on the public option, then failed to deliver. The original article points out that, during the *campaign* of 2008, Obama was promising hope and CHANGE, i.e. to change the way DC works, to make politics there more transparent and less petty, to bring rational thinking not bitter rhetoric. Arguably he did not change how DC works, and more to the point, he seems quite adept at working the system, following the philosophy that the ends justify the means. (Reagan arguably had the same solution to a similar conundrum....)

Now, with another election looming, he is saying that he *wanted* to change DC, but those mean old repubs just would not let him cooperate with them to bring about an open transparent rational process of governing. Riggs is calling foul, but moreover, pointing out survey data that 50% of Obama voters in that age-bracket believe he *did* change the way DC works... and 30% of them believe he tried but failed because of the repubs (i.e. taking him at his word... despite his failure to live up to his '08 promises).

You can argue that Obama in '12 is a better choice than some particular repub, based on policy differences or based on their record for truth-telling or whatever. But what is the deal here? Did Obama change the way DC works for the better, and if so how? If he did use the slimeball tactics of previous repub presidents and dem presidents, was it all because of those mean repubs in congress, as he says? These are honest questions; I know what *I* think the answers are, but what I want to know is what you think, as some non-survey-based insight into somebody that voted for Obama, and is seemingly planning to again (though you haven't said what you think of Romney nor Gingrich yet).

[Braadwijk]

Most of my generation really is just as fucking terrible as described, and I do have very little hope they'll be able to turn it around. That being said, I've noticed that a lot of kids with drive who want to do something meaningful with their lives are starting to realize that libertarian does not equal liberal. It's not much, but it does keep me from being a total alkie.

Btw, the reason I am a libertarian is because I did study abroad and saw what social democracy's all about. My German roommate visited America last year, and after spending 90 minutes in a supermarket overwhelmed by the choices available to him he never bitched at me again about why I didn't like things being "fair" for everybody.

[Realist]

Pissing matches are so intellectual.

[Danl]

So wait, you're attacking young Progressives for supporting a President who leans to the right and for not supporting a presidential candidate whose positions are often extreme right?

Holy logic pretzels Batman, I think we got ourselves a 'winner' here.

[santa]

Hi
Harry made an important point about how hard it is to give up smoking. I couldn't stop either , til I started researching about the mind and how it gets addicted so easily. Seriously you can quit you just need a little help. Anyway I found this vid and it's free. Hope tghis helps someone else. http://tinyurl.com/FreeGregoryHypnosisVideo
Thank you

[illusions]

So the generation that has the most elected mayors in US history, is the dumbest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....ted_States

[Brett C.]

ya....Obama is such a flip-flopper with his decisions. We need someone who is consistent, someone who's position is known and a strong conservative....Mitt Romney is the guys we need. LOL, hahaha