A.M. Links: Obama Rakes in $29 Million, U.S. Provides Loan Guarantee to Indonesian Airline, German President Resigns

• Super PAC-besieged Obama raised only $29.1 million in the first month of 2012. 

• U.S. finances $22 billion deal between Lion Air and Boeing. 
• ICE agent shoots other ICE agent, gets shot by third ICE agent. 
• CNN asks, "Is Mexico's Drug War Working?" Fails to answer the question. 
• Syrian troops continue shelling opposition forces. 
• Germany's president resigns.

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Comments

[RoboCain]

"Armed men guarded Media Matters boss as he took $400,000 gun control donation"

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....z1ma3NdjyZ

[shamalamadingdong]

This Holthouse guy is a real piece of work...

[Lowdog]

Hahah, David Holthouse used to write for a smaller publication back in AZ when I lived there. I'm pretty sure he made shit up - I know of one occasion where he took something that people talked about as a hypothetical and put that into a story as if it actually happened.

[HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN]

Are you [EMPIRE]-curious? My neighbor had sex with [ASPC] cult of cats. He even got tax exempt status!

[Proprietist]

Awesome. You're my favorite H&R troll and are always welcome here.

[Tulpa]

This isn't really a big deal; rabidly anti-gun politicians and Hollywood stars, for instance, typically have armed bodyguards. Their position is that guns should only be used by licensed professionals.

Of course, it does lend itself to accusations of hypocrisy on issues of "income inequality" since poor people living in dangerous neighborhoods are in at least as much danger, yet would be denied any personal protection beyond a phone to call 911 if these elites had their druthers.

[RoboCain]

Except from everything I've read, it was an illegal gun, and not a security professional.

[Fist of Etiquette]

CNN asks, "Is Mexico's Drug War Working?" Fails to answer the question.

Voice trails off... crickets.

[RoboCain]

"Bad Things That Happen When You Drink Too Much"

http://www.thelookingspoon.com.....k-too-much

[Frat Bro]

Excellent.

[RoboCain]

Teabaggers:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp.....teabagging

[Abdul]

Taebagging [sic] has become a nationwide phenomenon, as students thrust their private areas into another student's face, sometimes just for fun.

When they arn't doing it for fun, is it a mandatory assignment or something?

[Apatheist ?_??]

"become a nationwide phenomenon"

Bullshit, that has been around for forever.

[Ska]

Seriously, it just didn't have a widely recognized (and sadly, politicized) name.

[FlyoverCountry]

Yep, I don't know about forever, but I learned about teabagging from the movie "Pecker" back in the day

[2ndClassProle]

I blame video games. The little shits are always baggin' me when I play Halo Online.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Have you considered getting better at Halo?

[Apatheist ?_??]

This is a perfect example of how this is nothing new. When I was a little shit playing Counter Strike we would do the same thing.

[fuck off]

no liar you wouldn't, it's not possible

[rac3rx]

And yet again, Team Blue's obsession with people's genitalia has started another stupid trend.

[Rick Santorum]

Yeah it's team blue that is obsessed with other people's genitalia.

[Pip]

Reminds me of the infamous Atomic Situp.

[RoboCain]

Whatever you do, don't read the comments:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....73097.html

[Quetzalcoatl]

Whatever you do, don't double-post!

[RoboCain]

Whatever you do, don't read the comments:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....73097.html

[Quetzalcoatl]

HEY! I SAID -- oh, nevermind...

[AlmightyJB]

HA!

[RoboCain]

Sarah Palin diagnosed with yellow fever:

http://www.tmz.com/2012/02/16/.....eremy-lin/

[Glen Rice]

Been there.

[RoboCain]

Then her tits explode...

http://www.zimbio.com/Behati+P.....i+Pictures

[RoboCain]

Scarlett Johansson (lousy dresser) is still hot:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....aylor.html

[John]

I love the bod. But she is kind of a butter face. I don't think she is that pretty.

[sarcasmic]

jinx

[Ice Nine]

Below average face. Mediocre wheels. Otherwise simply gorgeous.

[PS]

She's got incipient cellulite on those thighs in the last pic, how old is she? Butter face, butter body. Meh.

[John]

She is in her late 20s. And nearly every women has cellulite around their ass and thighs after they hit about 20. The models you see in magazines who "don't" are either 15 or the cellulite has been photoshopped out.

[RoboCain]

That hasn't been my observation.

[John]

Look closer. There is usually a little something on the hips. Johnasson could be skinnier. But some of the cellulite is genetic. She could go on coke and drop to 80 pounds and it would still be there.

[RoboCain]

And I just don't think nearly every woman has those genes.

[PS]

John, you remember I live in Prague? I see women with two kids every day who have amazing hardbodies. This is partly genetic but it is also partly due to a higher standard of conduct.

If you like incipient cellulite, fine, but don't try to say it's normal for a woman in her late 20's because it isn't. While I think Czech women are better looking on average, I don't buy the cellulite at 25 is normal bullshit. I've seen way too much evidence to the contrary.

[John]

Some is. And I didn't say I liked it. I said that is what actual women look like. I have been with women that were in incredible physical condition, and they still had a little cellulite on the hips, because they were over 19 years old.

And you can't see it unless you see them in their underwear. If you see them with their clothes on, you can't tell. And all those hots moms in Prague, generally are dressed when they are in public. So more of them have a few flaws than you think they do.

There are some women who just never get such stuff. But they are the small minority. Most women get a little even if they have great bodies and are in good shape otherwise.

[PS]

I agree there's a genetic component, something to do with skin elasticity, some women are more prone than others. But the main factor is if they have the fat to poke through the weakened elasticity and probably further weaken it.

Johansson already has it and I didn't need to see her in skivvies to see that she had it.

Again, I see tons of older hot women with thighs that simply rock, and I've been living here for 15 years. Believe me, Czech women show a lot more thigh in the summer than Johansson is doing there. And it looks a hell of a lot better on average.

[John]

The thighs isn't where it always comes. They get the chunks on the sides of their hips. Trust me, they know where the chunks are, and they know how to hide them, even if they show a lot of skin.

[Tulpa]

So the lack of evidence for chunks is itself evidence for chunks? Are you a conspiracy theorist?

[PS]

So you are arguing that Johansson's incipient cellulite in her late 20s on her fat thighs is because she's not as good as hiding it as the Czech women who are ten years older and have had a kid or two that I see everyday and will wear very short skirts and dresses to show off their awesome legs during the hot season which you've apparently missed observing when you were here.

I'm sorry, but I can't "trust you" on this.

[John]

PS,

The picture of Johansson is her in a bikini. You are seeing those women, probably in hose and a skirt. So what you are seeing is not comparable. Put Johansson in a skirt, even a short one, and she would look plenty hot.

She looks plenty hot in those pictures. So what, she has a few flaws. All women do.

[PS]

Actually I was talking specifically about this this pic.

Let me reiterate, I've been living here for 15 years, I'm not seeing some women "probably in hose". I take my kid to school and playgrounds. I see women MILFS and even GMILFS with amazing legs all the time when the weather is warm. Johanssons fat thighs and incipient cellulite is simply not "normal" for her age, at least not here, and I doubt it was normal in the US 40 or 50 years ago.

Yes, no woman is perfect, but I don't think a "sex symbol" in her 20s ought to be able get away with fat cellulite thighs. If you like that, fine but don't shift the goalposts about what is normal. All women over 20 might have cellulite where you live, John, but that is neither normal nor healthy.

[Sparky]

You dare to argue with John about women?!?!?!

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Holy diver - a bunch of grown men catting at each other about women's cellulite.

Turn off the Lifetime and head to your nearest strip club for an Injection of Man-ness, you bitchy queens.

[MattJ]

My woman is 41 - no cellulite.

[MattJ]

Also - 3 kids.

[John]

Good for you. But if that is the case, she is in the minority and won the gene lottery.

[JEP]

I will say that girls who do olympica weightlifting have zero cellulite. Even the bigger girls in the heavier weight classes. They may look a little overweight, but they won't have cellulite.

[fuck off]

"And nearly every women has cellulite around their ass and thighs after they hit about 20."

I imagine the ones you get close enough to examine do.

My experience is different.

[John]

There is a reason why most models are in the barn by the time they hit 25. Almost no women can look that perfect much after their late teens.

[Sparky]

This from the guy who was defending the supposed hotness of a bunch of frumps the other day.

[John]

This is coming from a guy who has seen a lot of naked women in the flesh.

[Sparky]

Zing, you got me there John. I take it you're a gynecologist or something along those lines?

[Sparky]

Oh wait. It's because you live in or near DC where all the "hot" women have no choice but to chase after the fat, pasty douches.

[John]

There is at least one women, Kristen, who posts on here and lives in Washington, who completely agrees with me about that. If you don't believe me, take it up with her.

[Sparky]

It's not that I don't believe you at all. I'm saying that's the reason you're apparently getting so much tail that you're now an expert on women.

[John]

I am married Sparky. And I did okay when I was single, but only go to live in Washington for a year of it. And yeah, it was a great year.

[Fluffy]

Gotta stand up for John here.

Many - MANY - women look "hot"...in clothes.

The imperfections can't be hidden when nude.

That's when the cellulite truth comes out.

If you're thinking to yourself, "I see 10 hot women in their 30's on the bus every day who have no cellulite" I think your evaluation would change if you had X-ray vision and could see past the disguise.

The other thing you have to watch out for is the anorexic. They look hot in clothes, too - and then you get their clothes off and their skin is terrible, their ribs jut out, and their breasts look like two empty basketball socks with rocks in the toes.

[John]

Yes Fluffy, and even women who have flaws can still be attractive.

[Tonio]

John is not known for consistency.

[John]

How am i being inconsistent here? The whole point of the thread about the CPAC women was my contention that no women looks like the pictures in magazines and those women were attractive.

Here, my point is that Johansson, being in her late 20s, even as a movie star, still can't have the body that some 18 year olds do. Both points are perfectly consistent.

If you want to have a bug up your ass about be, have at it. But at least try to read the fucking posts before posting.

[Tonio]

There are posts about coitus? Who knew?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Horrible actress, as well. She's like a female version of Ryan Gosling.

[sarcasmic]

Nice butterface.

[Almanian]

I like it better when their face looks like a glazed donut.

If you know what I'm sayin'....

[Libertymike]

Emphasis on the glaze.

[RoboCain]

XOMG THE MALE GLAZE!!!1111!!!ELEVEN!!

[Drax the Destroyer]

I'm partial to the jelly donut.

[Popular Girls]

"Ew."
"Seriously?"
"Dude, that's so gross."

[R C Dean]

That commercial is hilarious. I forget what they are advertising, though.

[Sparky]

Geico

[rac3rx]

This seems to be a new trend in advertisement. Show something catchy, surreal, or hilarious, but make your product completely forgettable, so we all remember the ad, but not the product being advertised.

[Sparky]

To be fair, not everyone is brain dead.

[Janet Napolitano]

ICE agent shoots other ICE agent, gets shot by third ICE agent.

The System worked.

[Ice Nine]

...if it had been TSA agents.

[Janet Napolitano]

ICE is part of DHS.

And you're on The List.

[AlmightyJB]

Maybe we should hand out red and blue bandanas to the different dhs departments and see if we can get something going.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

We could just throw off everyone and become Latin Kings...We both look good in gold.

[mad libertarian guy]

Knocked Up FTW!

[Karl Hungus]

...if it had been TSA agents.

Not arming TSA agents is a double-edged sword: on one hand, these troglodytes shouldn't be let anywhere near a working firearm. On the other hand, we don't get stories like this.

[rac3rx]

...but remember kiddies...law enforcement are the only people who should be allowed to carry guns...

[Francisco d Anconia]

Guns don't kill people. Federal agents kill people.

[Dale Gribble]

Guns don't kill people. The government does.

[P Brooks]

ICE agent shoots other ICE agent, gets shot by third ICE agent.

Boo hoo.

[db]

Most of the headlines on google news for this story read like " one federal agent dead, one wounded in office shooting." While technically correct, some of the articles wait for a few sentences to mention that it was fed-on-fed violence, not some looney barging in from outside who did the deed.

[Karl Hungus]

While technically correct, some of the articles wait for a few sentences to mention that it was fed-on-fed violence, not some looney barging in from outside who did the deed.

Stories like this fuck up the narrative that our overlords are paragons of virtue, integrity, and competence. While they eventually have to divulge that one agent shot another, they're going to procrastinate in doing so, kinda like a little kid saving his broccoli for last.

[Mr Meow]

Stories like this fuck up the narrative that our overlords are paragons of virtue, integrity, and competence.

I predict the spin will be something like "The agent, a good man with an outstanding record of service to the American People, simply cracked under the pressure of being a paragon of virtue, integrity, and competence for so long."

[Ice Nine]

I think this is known as "going icicle".

[Bee Tagger]

The German presidency is a largely ceremonial office

It took a long time, but I'm finally jealous of the Germans.

[invisible furry hand]

And their TV programming has its moments

[German Shizer movie]

Essen mein Shizer!

[db]

WTH is a "shizer?"

[Fatty Bolger]

Shit if I know.

[Zeb]

But is a chancellor or prime minister any better?

[Bee Tagger]

Don't ruin this moment. I decided to stop reading after that excerpt.

[Pro Libertate]

The U.S. system was better when it still had separation of powers. In the parliamentary system, the functions we have separated aren't so separate.

[affenkopf]

If only the chancellor would become a largely ceremonial office, too.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Picture of the first gay couple to get married at the Empire State Building

[RoboCain]

I think Feministing posted that picture twice already.

But I like this wedding better:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/c.....609022.htm

[F Ewe]

The spouse on the right looks ecstatic.

[Almanian Mike Tyson]

I don't know whether to be ecstatic or ludicrous...

[Karl Hungus]

All together now:

AWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

[AlmightyJB]

So what's the protocol for these things, do you get to eat the happy couple after the ceremony? And why did my spell check try and change protocol to orifice? Can it read my mind?

[alittlesense]

Don't show this to Rick Santorum. He'll probably want us to nuke the zoo.

[shamalamadingdong]

The bride was beautiful!

[Xenocles]

It took me a close look to agree that they were gay.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Honestly, I spent about the first five minutes thinking the blonde was some sort of drag queen before it dawned on me.

[AlmightyJB]

If I were a lesbian I would totally gay marry that blond chick. Nice rack.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

[Audrey the Liberal]

I'm a gay man trapped in a woman's body.

[Audrey the Liberal]

I thought the wedding dress was very pretty.

[RoboCain]

Making Candy Safe and Legal:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46.....z5XCFGBV8F

[sloopyinca]

You mean to tell me that a private company did this without being told?

Get me to my feinting couch.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Teacher makes students write letters to her boyfriend, who was once banged up on kiddie porn charges.

So, what... 3 week suspension with pay, I'm thinking?

[John]

Funny how there are nearly daily cases of teachers molesting children yet public schools never get the treatment from the media the Catholic Church or little league gets.

[sarcasmic]

The daily stories about government employees abusing children are an aberration, while the occasional stories about clergy are the norm.

[Karl Hungus]

. . . nearly daily cases of teachers molesting children . . .

Omelets and eggs, I guess.

[sloopyinca]

And by "breaking a few eggs," you mean destroying the ovaries of second-graders, right?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The only ones they really pay attention to are the Debra LaFave-type cases, and even then they don't turn it into a cause to disparage the entire institution of teaching.

[Tonio]

And unlike the pass the Catholic church gets from prosecutors. Srsly, John, pretty much any other organization would be facing multiple, interlocking RICO prosecutions.

Also, with the schools, the teacher generally gets fired or at least rubber-roomed; with the Catholic church they just get shuffled to another town far away.

See the difference?

[John]

There are tens of thousands of cases of teachers molesting kids. And many of them are not even fired because they have union protection. And how many cases are covered up?

The problem is endemic in public schools. Yet there seems to be little done to combat it. And while the Catholic Church were well publicized, there were a lot fewer of them than the cases in public schools.

So no, I don't see a difference. If you want to go after the Church, feel free. But you might want to go after the schools with equal vigor.

[Loki]

If you want to go after the Church, feel free. But you might want to go after the schools with equal vigor.

If the ginned up controversy over the catholics was really about "protecting children" as opposed to going after a religious sect they would, but it's really not about "the children" with most of the people who get selective outrage over priests touching children.

[Libertymike]

Tonio, as a general proposition, shouldn't you start with asking yourself who is more apt to engage in reprehensible conduct, a person in the private sector or a person in the public sector?

Don't you think that it stands to reason that a far higher percentage of public school teachers have played with their pupils than priests with altar boys?

[Tonio]

LM, you're talking about a different side of the issue than I was addressing. Perhaps you honestly misunderstood, or perhaps you did understand and are trying to change the subject. Whatever.

My point wasn't about which group (public school teachers vs catholic priests) were more likely to touch children; it was about which group is more likely to be permanently removed from contact with children and be prosecuted once they've done that. This isn't about the actions of the individual molesters, this is about the reaction of the government and the church to finding molesters in their employee.

Please accept this reading comprehension lesson as my gift to you. Happy Friday.

[John]

My point wasn't about which group (public school teachers vs catholic priests) were more likely to touch children; it was about which group is more likely to be permanently removed from contact with children and be prosecuted once they've done that. This isn't about the actions of the individual molesters, this is about the reaction of the government and the church to finding molesters in their employee.

And you provided no evidence that any of this true. It is just bare assertion. And below I provided the counter example of a teacher who was left to molest kids for years (the school either knew and didn't care or were totally negligent in not noticing) and then was paid 40K to leave his job after he was arrested.

That and the long stream of stories of teachers being caught with students and the anecdotal evidence, a small sampling true, of students sleeping with teachers provided, would indicate that it is pretty damned common in schools and that schools don't really do too much about it.

Happy Friday and take the argumentation lesson as my gift to you.

[Tonio]

Neither have you provided links, John. And as I noted elsewhere the Catholic Church isn't keen on providing records of this sort of thing - that's why it's called a coverup.

Invite you to come up with some actual statistics; I'll try to do the same.

But my point still stands about how any other (inter)national NGO engaging in this type of coverup would have been taken down, at least the US parts, by RICO prosecutions.

[Libertymike]

Tonio, good point, you're right. Its not the first time I have wandered from the original debate.

[Fluffy]

Don't you think that it stands to reason that a far higher percentage of public school teachers have played with their pupils than priests with altar boys?

No.

I would be very surprised if the numbers turned out that way.

I think that every institution that works with children probably attracts a pretty similar percentage of molesters. (Maybe the Catholic church got a slightly higher percentage than "normal", because the priesthood doesn't attract men with normal sexuality in the first place. In the modern era, you have to be a sexual defective to even consider entering holy orders in the first place, and that probably alters the distribution of teh crazy in church ranks.)

To me the Catholic church scandal was not that molestation happened. To me the scandal was that the church deliberately covered for accused priests for the sake of protecting the public image of the church. The church was more valuable to them as an institution than the children were valuable to them as people. And maybe other institutions act that way, too - but in the church's case it was pretty pronounced, and the church often guilted parents into going along with their cover-up, and the church moved priests around in a way that enabled them to continue molesting, and (and this is a big deal to me) the Church has always held itself to be more important than mere earthly suffering of human beings as a theological matter so this was par for the course.

[Tulpa]

In the modern era, you have to be a sexual defective to even consider entering holy orders in the first place

That's bullshit. Perhaps you're very devout and consider your religion more important than getting off? Or does not making sexual release the most important thing in your life make you a "sexual defective".

I'm not saying that many priests aren't warped, but it's certainly not the case for all of them.

[Karl Hungus]

There are tens of thousands of cases of teachers molesting kids. And many of them are not even fired because they have union protection. And how many cases are covered up?

The problem is endemic in public schools. Yet there seems to be little done to combat it. And while the Catholic Church were well publicized, there were a lot fewer of them than the cases in public schools.

Clearly the solution is to establish a priests' union!

[John]

If the priests had a union that gave millions of dollars to liberal causes, I am thinking the Catholic priest scandal would have garnered a lot fewer headlines.

[Libertymike]

John, would you agree that there are posters here who, like me, have been altar boys and public school inmates and thus have their own experiences from which to draw some conclusions?

Never, not once, did any priest ever so much as look at me the wrong way. Ditto for any altar boy I knew or, for that matter, any person I have met who was an altar boy.

As for my public school experiences, a different tale. My senior year in hihg school, my government studies teacher subtely propositioned me. She was a spit-fire, about 5'2 with 36 double ds on a 100 pound frame, jet black hair and gorgeous blue eyes.

Our physics teacher who openly smoked dope with his chosen inner circle of students, had an affair with a holmely, though brilliant, classmate.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

You DIDN'T fuck your gov studies teacher?

Man, your boyfriend must have had a massive cock for you to be so loyal.

[John]

I had a psychology teacher my senior year who was a doll. Looking back on it, she really liked me. I was just too young and oblivious to notice it. She practically begged me to hit on her.

No, I wasn't a particularly bright teenager.

[John]

I didn't go to church as a child. But my wife worked in the rectory from the time she was in the 6th grade I think. She never so much as had anyone look at her.

In contrast, I knew at least four different girls in high school who had affairs with various teachers. Maybe things have changed over the years. But at least in the 1980s, students banging the younger teachers was not that uncommon.

[Tonio]

Your anecdotes combined with the unimpeachable nature of your character have totally convinced me.

[Karl Hungus]

My senior year in hihg school, my government studies teacher subtely propositioned me. She was a spit-fire, about 5'2 with 36 double ds on a 100 pound frame, jet black hair and gorgeous blue eyes.

You gotta admit, being propositioned by a hot teacher of the opposite sex when you're almost an adult yourself is a far cry from being invited by Father O'Malley to "blow into Gabriel's Horn" when you're eight.

So what did you do?? With the hot teacher, that is.

[Libertymike]

Nothing, just like John.

Yes, you are right to make the distinction you did.

However, we should distinguiush between the priest who sodomized a six year old and the priest who grabbed the rear end of a 17 year old parish youth counsellor at the annual summer parish outing at the lake.

[Karl Hungus]

Nothing, just like John.

I have no trouble understanding that. When I was a kid - even in my late teens - I would've been too socially ignorant/inept to recognize the situation for what it was. And in any case, I likely wouldn't have had the nerve to act on it.

[Tonio]

John, I'm not a prosecutor, so I can't "go after" anyone in the sense I think you mean.

When have I ever given a pass to schoolteachers or any other classes of individuals accused of child molestation? Provide linkies.

[John]

Are you really that in love with the public schools? You really think that they are clean as the driven snow? Wow.

[MATT DAMON]

Why do you hate teachers?

[the real Matt Damon]

MMMMMMAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT DDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tonio]

Uh, no. Again: linkies?

[John]

No Tonio, they just pay them 40K to resign after they arrested for years of molestation that the school failed to notice

http://www.washingtontimes.com.....id-resign/

As far as I know the Catholic church never paid bonuses for child molesting. The LA schools apparently do.

[Loki]

Molesting students was in the union contract. It's one of the "perks" of being a public school teacher.

[invisible furry hand]

And pimping your students out is a KPI

[Tonio]

1) As loathsome as it is, $40K and allowing them to resign is better than just shifting them around.

2) And you will never know what the Catholic church did or did not do because they are a private organization; there is at least some transparency and accountability for public schools. Not very much, but some. Apples vs Oranges, how does that work?

[Brandon]

"there is at least some transparency and accountability for public schools"

Seriously?

[Zeb]

That is an amazingly poorly written article.

[Loki]

banged up on kiddie porn charges

I'm guessing he was really "banged up" when his cell mates found out he was in for being a pedo-perv.

[Zeb]

He wasn't convicted of kiddie porn charges. What the teacher did was stupid and inappropriate, but the kiddie porn thing seems to be tacked on to make the story more sensational. Does the NY post always suck this much?

[Jess Asken]

[Obama's] campaign announced the haul in a tweet Friday morning, saying that 98% of the donations in January were in increments of $250 or less.

Are there any statistics on how many of these donations are from people on welfare?

[John]

How many of these donations were done over the internet where there is no way to tell where they came from or who gave them. Not that I care. But last I looked Obama was way concerned about keeping the wrong rich people and corporations out of politics.

[Tulpa]

One thing I've always wondered about is how many of these "small donations" are from unique donors. Or if people are giving 100 donations of $25 rather than a single $2500 donation to gin up his "supporter of the common man" image.

[John]

I would imagine a lot of them are from the same people.

[Project Narwhal]

Oh, yeah.

[P Brooks]

"At times like this words honestly seem inadequate. When something like this happens in our offices, it's incomprehensible," ICE Special Agent in Charge Claude Arnold said.

It's like there's a war on the police, or something; this just shows how important OFFICER SAFETY is, and why our noble law enforcement professionals should shoot civilians first, and ask questions later.

[Almanian]

I got some words for Agent Arnold - "HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA! DUMB FUCKERS! COULDN'TA HAPPENED TO A NICER BUNCH OF GUYS!"

Oh, Almanian! You BASTARD! You don't know these men! They may be GOOD guys!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! FUCK! YOU! COULDNT'A HAPPENED TO A NICER BUNCH. Rot in hell, LEO's.

That is all.

[sarcasmic]

If that guy had the nerve to pull a gun on his boss, it makes me wonder how many people he murdered in the line of duty.

Methinks the world is a safer place without him.

[Almanian]

Fuck.Tha.Po.Lease.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

You are a grade-A douche.

[Brandon]

And you are an authoritarian cocksucker.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Yeah, because I am not reveling in the death of a person.

This place has gone off the rails on the subject of LEOs.

[fuck off]

Suck more cop dick.

[T]

Judging from this incident, they should preemptively start shooting each other in the name of OFFICER SAFETY.

I'm fine with that, truthfully.

[John]

http://www.bostonherald.com/ne.....id=1404213

Martha Coakley saving Massachusetts from the scourge of sexless men.

[Brett L]

Guild war. Coakley believes only politicians can solicit men for money then fuck them.

[RoboCain]

"The law, which hits the books Sunday, is largely aimed at protecting child prostitutes but also hits adult hookers' clients with fines of up to $5,000 and up to 21?2 years behind bars, as part of a broad crackdown aimed at snuffing out prostitution by turning up the heat on both pimps and end-users of the illicit trade. Women of the night, conversely, are treated as victims of human trafficking, still facing the same misdemeanor charges but with new rights to sue those who exploited them."

WOMEN == CHILDREN

[John]

I am sorry but most hookers are anything but victims. They choose their life. Not a life I would choose or would want my daughter or sister to choose. But it is their life not mine. This idea that they are all victims of "human trafficking" is just bunk. Most hookers are American. What were they trafficed from rural Cow Hampshire? Are human trafficking rings to get dumb, hot young women with few prospects out of small towns into big cities?

And of course, does Coakley plan to go after Spitzer?

[Zeb]

The really awful thing about the people claiming that all prostitutes are victims of human trafficking is that that kind of human trafficking does happen to some extent and is really horrible. To lump in all of the people who knowingly, voluntarily became prostitutes is just going to make it a lot harder to combat situations where people actually are being forced to do things.

[Sparky]

This is pretty much a form letter for selective outrage.

The really awful thing about the people claiming that all X are victims of Y is that that kind of Y does happen to some extent and is really horrible. To lump in all of the people who knowingly, voluntarily X is just going to make it a lot harder to combat situations where people actually are being forced to Y.

This is being thrown around a lot with Whitney Houston's death and people calling drug addiction a disease.

[robc]

That is a great form letter. Well done.

[robc]

Anyone who tries to ban X because of Y can go F themselves.

[sloopyinca]

Anyone who tries to ban X because of Y can go F themselves.

...in the A.

[RoboCain]

It's mission creep.

[Joe M]

"Mexico has paid an enormous price: almost 50,000 dead, almost $50 billion in additional security costs, ever more numerous human rights violations, (and) a great discrediting of the country to the world," wrote Jorge Castaneda, a former Mexican foreign minister and critic of the current strategy, in the Spanish newspaper El Pais.

Good for him, but notice it's always former this or thats who criticize policy.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon, and his backers in the U.S. government, meanwhile, insist that the militarized offensive is paying dividends and that a turning point is close at hand.

Oh my god. Is there a way to google variations on the phrase "a turning point is close at hand" with regard to the drug war? How many times has this been said?

[db]

When you're running around in circles, you are by definition perpetually near a turning point.

[Rich]

Well said.

[invisible furry hand]

+1000

[R C Dean]

But will the turn be for better or worse?

[Pip]

Mexican President Felipe Calderon, and his backers in the U.S. government, meanwhile, insist that the militarized offensive is paying dividends and that a turning point is close at hand a handsome salary and benefits.

[sarcasmic]

Victoria's Secret brings trashy to a new level.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....i-pad.html

NTTAWWT

[RoboCain]

How?

[John]

Just because he never gets a hit when it counts doesn't mean he isn't entitled to enjoy the fruits of being a millionaire athlete.

[robc]

You know that just about every study ever attempted shows that there is no sign of clutch or anti-clutch hitting in baseball.

At least not at any kind of statistically significant level.

[John]

That is what they say. And it is probably true. That said, Rodriguez must be the all time leader in homeruns in 9-0 games.

[robc]

Good HR hitters will hit lots of home runs in 9-0 games, because the pitchers suck in those games (you put in your crappy inning eater reliever, after all).

[Brett L]

Wait. We're talking about A-Fraud here, right? If he'd work out in the off-season, he'd be a solid hitter year round. Just because he can't find his stroke 'til August, doesn't mean he's a particularly clutch hitter.

[KDN]

Just because he can't find his stroke 'til August

Uh, you talking about Mr. May part two? Even that's unfair, A-rod is remarkably consistent over his career, ~100 tOPS+ 1st half, ~101 tOPS+ 2nd half:

http://www.baseball-reference......Career&t=b

From what I can tell on ESPN (lousy BRef yearly splits won't display for some reason), 2009 is the only year of the past 5 where he was better in the 2nd half than the first.

[KDN]

Just because he never gets a hit when it counts

His ALCS and WS numbers are slightly better than his career average. ALDS is quite a bit worse, but is bipolar: '04 and '09 were hot, 00, 05, 06, 10 & 11 were cold, 97 and 07 were slightly worse than expectations when adjusting for competition. A-Rod's lack of clutch ability is a bit exaggerated (I say this as a Yankee die hard that has hated him ever since he came up w/ Seattle; I think Mark Sanchez is the only player I have more of a love/hate relationship with).

doesn't mean he isn't entitled to enjoy the fruits of being a millionaire athlete.

True that, but...

Out of town: Alex was in New York City while the shoot was taking palce and was seen with his girlfriend Torrie Wilson.

You'd figure that a guy worth half a billion dollars could pull in a better class of beard.

[John]

No kidding. He is no Derrek Jeter, that is for sure.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

You'd figure that a guy worth half a billion dollars could pull in a better class of beard.

Clooney had already taken Stacy Kiebler in the Former Wrestling Divas Trying to Remain Relevant contest.

[KDN]

I'm still waiting for the Beulah McGillicutty resurrection. She was trashy perfection.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I still preferred Ms. Elizabeth.

[Brett L]

Science, bitches. It works.

"Two doctors at Penn State University have developed Caffeine Zone, a free iOS app that tells you the perfect time to take a coffee break to maintain an optimal amount of caffeine in your blood ? and, perhaps more importantly, it also tells you when to stop drinking tea and coffee, so that caffeine doesn't interrupt your sleep."

[RoboCain]

Is there a way to run iOS under OSX?

[Trespassers W]

Brain asploded

[db]

Back in my day at Penn State we did an exercise in ChE 304 (solution thermodynamics) in which we had to calculate how long one had from the point of chugging a drink of known alcohol concentration until enough alcohol had diffused into the blood to register as above the legal limit. Hint: it takes longer than you think.

[Karl Hungus]

we had to calculate how long one had from the point of chugging a drink of known alcohol concentration until enough alcohol had diffused into the blood to register as above the legal limit.

Interesting! So what did you find? In other words, how long would it take after pounding enough shots 80-proof liquor to raise your BAC to .08% before that result would be registered on a breathalyzer?

[Loki]

At Embry Riddle Aeronautical University we called that "pilot math". It was the only math most of the Air Science (fancy pants term for "pilot") majors could perform: when to stop drinking to be sober enough for their check rides.

Many of those guys are probably now airline pilots. Think about that on your next flight...

[Loki]

how long one had from the point of chugging a drink of known alcohol concentration until enough alcohol had diffused into the blood to register as above the legal limit

Obviously I read that wrong the 1st time. oops (and no I'm not still drunk from last night). I don't think.

[AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA]

"Embry Riddle Aeronautical University "

YOU ACTUALLY PAID FOR THAT?

YOU GAVE THOSE FUCKING IDIOTS MONEY?

AHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Cornell West, Melissa Harris Perry are fighting. Ebony has a poorly formatted reaction

I have taken these recent criticisms and outright, misogynistic attacks on Melissa Harris-Perry more personally because it is clear the issue is not really about politics but what appears to be a sense of patriarchal ownership (and not just from Dr. West) of voice, of narrative, of song, even. Who is to say what the trajectory of one's "life of the mind" should be? As academicians, are we not always criticized for talking amongst ourselves? For doing research that never quite makes it past the campus bookstore, the academic journal distribution list, the scholarly conference?

I see similarities between Harris-Perry and Barack Obama, in the sense that they seemed fine and acceptable as long as they could be a Dr. West prot?g?e or a Civil Rights legacy of Jesse Jackson (but not Shirley Chisholm) or the Democratic Party, respectively. As soon as they held dreams beyond that which their immediate predecessors deemed appropriate, acceptable and/or controllable, they were soon harshly criticized and chastised to stay "in their place."

...

In fact, many of my (male and female) colleagues, all of us legacies and beneficiaries of the scholars who paved the way for Black/Africana Studies and its subsequent effects upon the academy, have experienced what I consider an unfair criticism for not only desiring more from our lives as academics but being able to be in the very world we seek to change while living in it. This is ironic, considering that as an Africana Studies major, I could not graduate without engaging in pubic service outside of my academic institution. Indeed, "service-learning" was a major tenet of the origins of Black Studies. We want to make history, not just teach it. This is the work of W.E.B. DuBois, of Anna Julia Cooper, of Carter G. Woodson, of Ida B. Wells-Barnett. The technology we use and the (social) media in which we appear are but tools to broaden our voices, expand our work and live fuller lives so the ivory towers uplifts rather than crushes us.

By the way, the last paragraph, about how changing the world through service is integral to "Blank Studies" degrees is why I refuse to respect them academically. Your job is to observe, analyze, and report, not change.

[Tonio]

Celebrity death match, now needed more than ever.

[John]

Bad news for race hustlers everywhere. Interacial marriage reaches all time high. If you can't tell people apart, how the hell are you supposed to turn them against each other for political advantage?

http://shine.yahoo.com/love-se.....00573.html

[RoboCain]

I'm for procreative racial deconstruction, and I vote.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

I don't vote, but I do fuck.

[RoboCain]

How about a voting booth with a glory hole?

[Sparky]

Cock the vote?

[Loki]

It would make it more obvious what you're actually "signing up for", so to speak.

[DJF]

Since most of the worse violence between people is between people that outsiders could not tell apart I don't think this will change much. Strip off the clothes of people of Europe and they are hard to tell apart, yet they have slaughtered each other in the millions. The same applies to the Middle East, Africa, Asia, or the Americas

[John]

I think it changes a lot. The biggest racial problems in this country, outside of the South, a hundred years ago was between various European groups. After they intermarried and you couldn't tell people apart, they stopped hating each other. It is the same thing with race relations. If intermarriage ever becomes really common, there will be no way to tell who is black.

[DJF]

They will just fight over something else. The Crown Heads of Europe were all related with each other and that did not stop the fighting.

And civil wars which by their nature are often between people who are related are the worse kind of wars, often extremely bloody and long lasting.

[John]

Sure, there is always an excuse to hate each other. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a good thing to reduces those reasons. Getting rid of race as a factor in this society would be a good thing, even if it didn't create paradise.

[Sparky]

But that doesn't mean that it isn't a good thing to reduces those reasons

You can't and that's what DJF is saying. There will always be a reason no matter who looks like what.

[John]

So what? That doesn't mean some societies are not less violent than others. And that doesn't mean you cannot get better. We are a much better society in that regard today than we were a hundred or even 50 years ago.

DJF seems to take the position that all things are equally doomed. And we are not. Nothing is perfect, but there are still degrees of good.

[Sparky]

DJF seems to take the position that all things are equally doomed. And we are not. Nothing is perfect, but there are still degrees of good.

At this point you're just continuing the argument to get the last word. What DJF said is that most people don't give a flying fuck about color anymore and no matter what people end up looking like there will ALWAYS be something to fight over.

[Sen Bullworth]

Everbody just keep fucking everybody until we all the same color.

[John]

And in this country at least, race has always been the biggest source of internal hatred.

[Xenocles]

Everyone will be black. Stunningly, they will continue to be underprivileged or disadvantaged in the eyes of the left.

[Zeb]

Violence isn't the major problem with race at this point. And of course interpersonal violence isn't going away entirely.
As John points out, the great thing about blurring of racial distinctions is that race will eventually no longer be a meaningful or intelligible way to divide people up. Of course politicians will figure out other ways to divide people, but race has been one of the more awful and destructive ways to keep people hating each other.

[KDN]

When we're all the same race we'll hear even more bellyaching over "class."

[Joe M]

The best part of that article is at the end:

"Race is a social construct; race isn't real," Jonathan Brent, whose father is white and his mother is Japanese-American, told the Associated Press. It's an idea that more and more young adults agree about.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Wow, talk about a rhetorical weapon employed for decades by social Marxists completely backfiring on them.

[RoboCain]

"Mom Faces Jail for Making Son Walk to School

An Arkansas mother is being charged with a misdemeanor count of endangering the welfare of a minor after she made her son walk 4.6 miles to school in order to "teach him a lesson."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ab.....-news.html

[John]

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

Interesting James Toranto take on Santorum. I don't like Santorum because he is an opportunistic crap weasel who took millions from unions and endorsed Arlan Spector. I don't think his social conservatism really means much because none of it would get implemented. But Toranto does a brutal take down on the Washington Republican's having vapors over Santorum.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Taranto.
Just remember: he's not Canadian, he's a spider.

[Michelle Obama]

"There were a number of things that could have happened to the child," said Lyle Waterworth, a spokesman for the Jonesboro Police Department. "The child could have been injured, abducted."

OTOH, Let's Move!

[Pissed Off Old Codger]

In my day I walked to school 20 miles everyday, uphill in the snow. Both ways. That's the way it was and we liked it.

[Major Tom]

Did you wear an onion on your belt, which was the style at the time?

[Kwanzaa Cake]

We couldn't get green onions because of the war, all we had were those big yellow ones.

[John]

http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....ance-plan/

Majority oppose Obama's contraception mandate.

[WTF]

Of course 44% are in favor of the government forcing religious institutions to provide things that conflict with their beliefs.

[John]

That is pretty depressing yes.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

At least 20% of that 44% would be totally against it if Obama changed his mind.

[P Brooks]

Mexican President Felipe Calderon, and his backers in the U.S. government, meanwhile, insist that the militarized offensive is paying dividends and that a turning point is close at hand.

If those guys say it's working, who are we to quibble?

[Brett L]

Good to see Baghdad Bob is working again.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

From the Microagressions Facebook:

This grad student in Social Work is seeking LGBTQ-identified Asian American women to participate in a research project designed to examine how they form and experience their ethnic, sexual, and gender identities in the context of their families of origin, chosen families, Asian American, and LGBTQ communities: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XM7TY5C

And they seriously, honestly, truly wonder why they can't get well paying jobs?

[Almanian]

Wha....what? Talk about an "n of 1"...

[John]

Sadly, they will get paying jobs. It will be a social worker on your tax dollar.

[AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA]

"And they seriously, honestly, truly wonder why they can't get well paying jobs?"

That's not what he said cunt.

[Abdul]

Why don't they just download Asian Sluts #12 like the rest of us who are into this research?

[Loki]

LGBTQ

What the fuck is the Q for? Is it just me or do they keep adding more "aggrieved status" people to their list of sacred cows? First it was LGB, then LGBT because Gaia forbid we leave out the Transgendered, but who the hell are the Q's supposed to be? The only thing I can think of is maybe "Queer", but 1) I thought that was supposed to be offensive, and 2) wouldn't the L's and G's cover that? Anyone else confused?

[Sparky]

I'm pretty sure it is Q for queer. And like all offensive epithets, it's not offensive when they use it.

[Zeb]

In many situations queer is OK for anyone to use. As an adjective anyway. Calling someone "a queer" is still generally considered offensive, I think.

I've never been sure if the Q is supposed to mean queer or questioning, though.

[Pip]

Nope. Questioning.

True Story.

[Sparky]

Really? Wow. So if you have LGBT to choose from and you're still Q maybe you should just end it now an spare the world your angst.

[Sparky]

And by "your" I don't mean you specifically Pip. Didn't want things to get out of hand.

[Zeb]

Or maybe you are just having fun fucking whatever comes along.

[Brandon]

Wouldn't "Questioning" just be "Bi?"

[Rev. Blue Moon]

It can be "Queer", but then when you say that, Tony and that other taintscrubber will call you bigoted.

[Tonio]

"Queer." At least that's how it decodes in the local Gay (etc) orgs with which I'm involved. And don't ask me to define it; I'm just an old-school, gender-normative homo and don't get all the kids with their fancy identities.

[JBA]

Apparently, now it's LGBTQQIA.

Lesbian gay bisexual transgender queer questioning intersex asexual

I'm not making this up.

[Jerry]

Man eating Triple Bypass Burger at Las Vegas Heart Attack Grill has heart attack.

[db]

That's an heart attack, thank you very much.

[Pro Libertate]

Foul! Don't listen to him! It's a heart attack!

[Zeb]

I thought it was a myocardial infarction.

[Almanian]

How can you have your pudding if you haven't eaten your meat?

s/
Your Betters

[Pip]

"ICE agent shoots other ICE agent, gets shot by third ICE agent."

Ice, Baby, Ice.

http://www.pp2g.tv/vYnl-Z3Q_.aspx

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

The creepy hot for the teacher essays that got a student kicked off campus. Also, TEH GUNZ!!!

You have to love the comments: Free speech is absolute... until someone makes a woman uncomfortable, and then it must be restricted and not accommodated. Property rights are not absolute... until they are used to kick a student out for writing things you don't like.

Man, for all the goal post moving us partirarchists are supposed to be doing, I envy Jezebel's team.

[Almanian]

Serves him right for attending a State School.

[sloopyinca]

serves him right for living in that hellhole of a state.

O-H...

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I-O!

[Fist of Etiquette]

How does no one but Almanian (who, let's put it out there, we all know doesn't really count) care about this story enough to comment? It has everything: Guns, feminists, high education, Jezebel, idiots. Disappointing.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

I know. I had high hopes for this one.

[sloopyinca]

FTA: And FIRE Vice President of Programs Adam Kissel says, "Oakland University is treating Corlett like a student with a mental disability who needs counseling for insensitivity.

Sweet, because that means I'm also disabled (since I wanted to fuck a teacher or two when I was younger and I've always had guns). Can I get a Handicapped placard for my car so I can park closer when I go shopping or to a ball game?*

*And if I'm refused, can I claim aggrieved status?

[John]

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

Interesting James Toranto take on Santorum. I don't like Santorum because he is an opportunistic crap weasel who took millions from unions and endorsed Arlan Spector. I don't think his social conservatism really means much because none of it would get implemented. But Toranto does a brutal take down on the Washington Republican's having vapors over Santorum.
reply to this

[Old Mexican]

Re: John,

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I think the Santorum people got to him, John...

We're so doomed.

[John]

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

Try this

[Old Mexican]

What he [Santorum] says is that birth control has greatly expanded sexual freedom, and that sexual freedom has had consequences that are harmful to society and to women in particular. Again, one may disagree whether, on balance, these harms outweighed the benefits.

I don't think Taranto realizes the implications of what he and Santorum are implying: That the choices made by people that are NOT them supposedly "harmed" them, despite the fact that we're not talking about ingesting cyanide or dropping from the 20th floor of the apartment building thinking one can fly. We're simply talking about not having babies after having sex.

Unless they presume to possess the special and godly gift of reading minds, they cannot make such assertion. Nobody can make such assertion seriously. This is probably why Santorum is put to task not only by the more liberal journalists but also by the libertarian opinionmakers.

[John]

Of course you can make such an assertion. You can look at the situation of women in the aggregate and think are they better off for sex being more readily available.

And there are a lot of arguments that says they are not. A lot of it goes to marriage. Because sex is so readily available and relatively risk free, women can no longer charge marriage as the price for sex. Before widely available birth control, it was much more risky to have pre-marital sex before now. And men were more willing to get married and marry younger because it was basically the only safe way to have sex. And thus women could insist on marriage in return for sex.

Further, biologically women seem to put more emotional emphasis on sex than men to. Men therefore are much less likely to be psychologically damaged by promiscuity than women. I have never known a guy who was any worse the wear for banging a lot of women when he was single, although there must be some that are. But I have known tons of women who seemed to be seriously emotionally damaged by the experience. Free love is generally a better deal for men than it is for women.

Now it may be, as Toranto points out, that the advantages of the sexual revolution out weigh these disadvantages. I think the probably do. But the counter arguments are not insane and not completely without merit. And they are certainly something to be taken seriously.

Journalists don't take them seriously because they are so damned brainwashed by feminist dogma that sexual freedom is an absolute good.

[nicole]

Why is the presumption on being brainwashed by the totalitarianism of feminism, rather than on having thought about some of this shit and deciding that people like Santorum are wrong and the benefits of the sexual revolution outweigh the disadvantages? So wrong, in fact, that they are not to be taken seriously?

I'm just saying this as someone who is not a utilitarian, and who knows that many others here are likewise not. Greater freedom to enjoy sex is good because it's greater freedom. Even if it hurts some women in some ways (and I say this as someone who fully recognizes my inability to charge the marriage-price for sex), it doesn't matter; it's still good.

[nicole]

Sorry, I should have said "not a consequentialist."

[John]

Just because you believe the other side doesn't mean there are no counter arguments. I think the arguments above are perfectly legitimate and serious arguments.

All you are really saying Nicole is because you disagree with Santorum he can't be serious. So what. The arguments speak for themselves and they are serious. And they are to some degree at least true. Women are worse off and have less power now that sex is more readily available.

I don't see how advocates for freedom do themselves any favors by pretending there is never a corresponding price in responsibility to be paid for freedom. Taking Santorum's arguments seriously makes your case more compelling than just dismissing them, which makes you look defensive and naive.

[nicole]

I'm not saying he can't be serious, I'm saying he is wrong. We disagree all the time with people whose moral calculus is focused on something other than freedom.

[Fluffy]

John, just yesterday you bitched along with me because the Slate writer who was pissed off about homeschooling was mad at any woman who didn't enter the workforce.

You pointed out, rightly, that women who make the choice to stay home are under no obligation to give a rat's ass if that hurts the campaign of other women to "dismantle the patriarchy" or what have you.

On that basis, why should any woman who takes advantage of sexual liberation and likes it have to give one fucking rat's ass if it's "good for society"? Or for other women who are too stupid to manage their own emotional and sex lives?

"Wah! Your sexual choices are making it harder for me to get married!" Well boo fucking hoo. When did we start evaluating my liberty based on how good it is for you?

[John]

I agree with you fluffy. And that is why I am not on Santorum's side on this. But I am not going to say he is crazy or has it out for women. I think the attacks against him that say he is are unfair irrational.

He has a point and it is not an unserious one. I just think it is a wrong one.

[Brandon]

John, Santorum is not serious because he is engaging in the same kind of mental gymnastics that Tony does when he concludes that freedom is slavery. It's fallacy after fallacy. Individual freedom, from the government's perspective, should be the GOAL, not a side effect when it's convenient. Not that I expect you to acknowledge that, because your own arguments are based on the assumption that women can't possibly just enjoy sex, but are basically whores wanting to trick men into marrying them.

[T]

I say this as someone who fully recognizes my inability to charge the marriage-price for sex

Being morbidly curious and slightly rude: is this because you can't (for whatever reason) in good conscience charge that price or because no one (you'd consider seriously) will pay it?

[nicole]

It would not be the norm in my cultural community and thus would feel unfair and manipulative to me.

[T]

Manipulative? Didn't anybody teach you about being a girl, nicole? That's the idea!

I kid. But only somewhat, since there is a fair complement of women that actually believe this.

[Zeb]

"But I have known tons of women who seemed to be seriously emotionally damaged by the experience."

In my experience, such women are usually emotionally damaged before their sexual exploits and their sexual behavior is more of a consequence than a cause of their emotional problems.

[Almanian]

You know who else continued shelling opposition forces...

[John]

Generalissimo Franco?

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Is still dead.

[Marshall Gill]

Planters?

[Turna Teener]

The Jolly Green Giant?

[JEP]

Dr. Zoidberg?

[P Brooks]

"a turning point is close at hand"

"I can see a light down there; we MUST be just about out of this tunnel."

[P Brooks]

Cornell West, Melissa Harris Perry are fighting.

and NOBODY GIVES A FUCK.

[RoboCain]

That was my reaction too.

[John]

Who is Melissa Harris Perry?

[Candi Graham]

Who and who?

[Lord Humungus]

post Heinlein quote on facebook:

weird response from friend:

"Political tags ? such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth ? are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort."
-Heinlein's Lazarus Long

[sarcasmic]

I post that one on here all the time.

[Lord Humungus]

yep - I saw it yesterday, probably from you.

[Lord Humungus]

friend: "That's the second stupidest Heinlein quote I've seen this year."

[Lord Humungus]

me: "and what is it about this quote that you find "stupid"?"

[Lord Humungus]

friend: For one thing, dividing the world up into two distinct categories, simplistic to the point of being cartoonish. But worse than that, castigating as total villains everyone who is even moderately tolerable company."

[Lord Humungus]

thinking he's missing the point, I reply:

"ah... well plenty of political points are childish, but get to the heart of an important matter about liberty and freedom. Many people like to impress their belief systems on others - through the use of laws and/or taxation. For example, Repubs anti-gay marriage stance. Or nanny-staters wanting to reduce sodium intake. Or a government trying to increase sales of a product by giving tax breaks. If that isn't control, then what is?"

waiting for reply.

[sarcasmic]

thinking he's missing the point

I believe your friend is one of those who feels that if something can be explained in a way that is simple and easy to understand, then it must be wrong.
What is the point of having experts when something can be explained in a way that is simple?
Doesn't that defeat the whole idea of being an expert?
And if someone claims to be an expert, but explains things in a way that is easy to comprehend, they're not really an expert.
Experts explain things in a way that you can't understand.
That's how you know they're really really smart.

[Sparky]

But the world is so complex you just can't understand AUUUUGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[Lord Humungus]

so he's trying to find complexity where no complexity lies (lays?).

Pretty standard this guy - he suffers from the "smarter than everyone else syndrome" - heck, I heard him say that at a dorm party, straight to some girl's face.

[Surly CHef]

Every time someone utters the word "childish" when libertarians compare their ideological principles to statists of all stripes, that, they are arguing to empower agents to use violence as a means to make everyone conform to their will even when 49.999999% of people disagree with them. That's childish.

[Brett L]

His problem is that he thinks curmudgeonly, suspicious, and lacking in altruism are bad things.

[SugarFree]

de-friend

[John]

Let me guess, friend is a die hard liberal.

[Lord Humungus]

Austin.

[Lord Humungus]

Austin TX that is - part of the "burning man" crowd and such.

[rac3rx]

Austin, TX...an overrated, but pretty little place absolutely ruined by the absolute fucking idiots who live there.

[Brandon]

Not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. At least if you're a heterosexual male.

[John]

Some people cannot understand the idea that someone wishing to "do good" could ever, even inadvertently" not have the best of motives or produce the best of results.

[Pro Libertate]

It's that ends-justifies-the-means crap that makes the left more dangerous than the right. They both do it, but the left does it with more conviction.

[John]

Who was it C.S. Lewis who said that the worst tyrant of all is the one that insists you do things for your own good?

[sarcasmic]

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C. S. Lewis

[Tex]

"...it is one thing to persuade, another to command..." -- Locke

[JEP]

Also:

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
- Louis Brandeis

[Warty]

You need better friends. And stop using Facebook already.

[robc]

The amount of stupid on google+ is orders of magnitudes lower. Plus I can catch up checking it once or twice a week.

[Lord Humungus]

good advice - I've been friends with this guy for 32 years, but needless to say, we've drifted apart. Constraints of time and space.

[Brandon]

If you're only friends on facebook, you're less "friends" than "mutual stalkers."

[Old Mexican]

Syrian troops continue shelling opposition forces.

Those would be the nice opposition forces that kill or harass Syrian Christians.

[John]

They have already ran all of the Jews out of the middle east. Time to move on to the Christians.

[Hillary Clinton]

That does it! Time to invade!

[imhotep]

Maybe next time more ICE agents will shoot each other - I am thinking the scene in Resevoir Dogs.

[Zeb]

Yep. They all suck. Have we learned yet that picking sides when both sides are totally fucked is not a good idea?

[imotep]

Maybe next time more ICE agents will shoot each other - I am thinking the scene in Resevoir Dogs.

[John]

My guess is one of two things, the guy who was shot was banging the shooter's wife or girlfriend, or the guy who was shot had done something to fuck up the shooter's career.

[sarcasmic]

The agent, a Homeland Security investigations officer, opened fire on his boss after being advised that disciplinary action was being taken against him, CBS News' John Miller reports. A third agent intervened, fatally shooting the attacker.

It sometimes helps to read the article.

[John]

So it was one of my two guesses. No need to read the article.

[SugarFree]

A bold journey into the the murky and dangerous world of lower middle class America... will our over-educated rich liberal survive?

I got hired to do the hardest job at Applebee's.

Around 4:00, with the kitchen still slow, a young black woman named Claudette replaces Tony. She ties on an apron and sidles up alongside me, humming with energy, and starts barking at the cooks immediately in English I don't yet fully understand: Where's that Cowboy? How long on that sweet and spicy for fifty-three? Is there an Orange Chick Bowl coming? Can I get a five-ounce? She tells me to get ranch for the barbeque wings, blue cheese for the hot ones, and a scoop of sour cream on top of those nachos, thanks. During the lulls, she breaks into Haitian Creole with Geoff, the dark-skinned cook on mids, swinging between coy laughter and sass. She bumps tickets with abandon, clears the screen as fast as it fills up, and bosses me around without being a bitch. I like her immediately.

She turns to me. You ever work in a kitchen before?

In college, a little. But that was ten, twelve years ago.

She stares at me. How old are you?

Thirty-three. Why, how old are you?

You look ? a lot less than thirty-three.

How old are you? I ask.

Twenty.

You're just a baby, I tease and she shoots me a look of disdain in return.

I ain't no baby. I got a baby, she says, and turns back to the line.

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

Find out next time on another exciting episode of Clueless liberal in the city! Now, a word from our sponsor- Blue Coal!

[nicole]

Yesterday from Slate: homeschooling will show your class privilege

Today from Slate: going undercover as a "poverty report" will...show your class privilege

[Warty]

Nearly three years ago, Tracie McMillan left New York to go undercover within the American food system. McMillan had grown weary of lectures about local food that dismissed the importance of price to working-class people. At the same time, she knew from her work as a poverty reporter that poor families cared about the quality of their food, too. McMillan hoped to get a ground-level view of how Americans actually make decisions about their meals, especially when money and time are scarce.

OH GOD TOO MUCH SMUG CAN'T BREATHE

[Rich]

she knew from her work as a poverty reporter that poor families cared about the quality of their food, too.

LOL

[MNG]

You have to love this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" anti-elitism. Making pronouncements about other people's food choices without looking into their situation, damn you elitist! Trying to find out more about their situation, damn you elitist!

[Pro Libertate]

Perhaps the part about being a navel-gazing elitist in the first place is the problem?

[MNG]

Isn't at least commendable that this "elitist" went out to find out more about how other people think about this? It would be worse if she just assumed this or that about it.

[WTF]

I think what grates is the seeming attitude of descending down into a backwards culture and reporting on it as if it was some lost stone-age tribe in the Amazon.

[MNG]

I can see that. But at least she seems to care about what "the other America" is doing. A lot elites could care less.

[WTF]

But at least she seems to care about what "the other America" is doing. A lot elites could care less.

Agreed.

[Underpants Gnome]

I think the part most people object to is the "I'm a smug cunt with my head entirely in my own ass" part.

[SugarFree]

The phrase "food desert(s)" only appears seven times in the book. I am disappoint.

[Loki]

That's practically George Clooney oscar acceptance speech levels of smug.

[db]

Common people

She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge, she studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College, that's where I, caught her eye. She told me that her Dad was loaded, I said "In that case I'll have a rum and coca-cola." She said "Fine." and in thirty seconds time she said,

"I want to live like common people, I want to do whatever common people do, I want to sleep with common people, I want to sleep with common people, like you."

Well what else could I do -I said "I'll see what I can do." I took her to a supermarket, I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere, so it started there. I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said, "Oh you're so funny." I said "yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here. Are you sure you want to live like common people, you want to see whatever common people see, you want to sleep with common people, you want to sleep with common people, like me." But she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand. Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job. Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school. But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all.

You'll never live like common people, you'll never do what common people do, you'll never fail like common people, you'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to do.

Sing along with the common people, sing along and it might just get you through, laugh along with the common people, laugh along even though they're laughing at you, and the stupid things that you do. Because you think that poor is cool.

I want to live with common people, I want to live with common people etc...

[John]

That seems to be a common theme lately.

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/1.....e_costume/

"I was a terrific little snob who thought she knew everything . . . . As ridiculous as it sounds, that was the first time I became aware that clever people are buried in every nook and cranny of life. It is astonishing that no one pointed this out to me sooner."

What kind of a childhood do you have where it isn't until well after adulthood that it dawns on you that there are a lot of really smart people out there?

[Periodic Warrior AuH?0]

John, they lack college degrees and they disagree with you politically. How could they not be stupid?

[Warty]

Taking price variations into account, and often considerable tips, and the fact that if you were good you could expect to sell around 100 shots in a six-hour evening, the money was ? well, it was the kind of money that teachers in America really ought to make.

Everything is fucking political with these people. Everything. Jesus Christ, fuck teachers.

[MNG]

Says a guy who posts all day on a political website...Just saying.

We've made teachers a political football. I went to a music performance my daughter's school put on recently. The first graders did an adorable one that lasted for thirty minutes, cute songs with choreography. The poor teacher actually felt the need to say at the end "I know this was only a half hour, but trust me it took a lot longer to put this together." Anyone with a little kid knows that. I thought about how crappy it is that we've made teachers so fundamentally on the defensive about what they do...

[JW]

It's hard to be defensive while committing a martyr complex.

[MNG]

I think people see what they look for. The vast majority of what my duaghter's teacher does is not political. Schools are more about "jump rope for heart" than they are about socialist indoctrination, though if you see that everywhere then yes, you can find it in schools to.

My only problem with teachers is that they should see that in hard times they can't expect not to face cuts or freezes in pay and benefits, and that it is no sin even in good times to talk about that. But in that respect they seem no different than ANY constituency which gets government funds.

[JW]

My kids' teachers aren't overtly political either, not counting the constant, subtle indoctrination of progressive ideology that permeates the entire system.

However, at the suggestion that they either already get paid enough or aren't productive enough and the NEA talking point firestorm is upon you.

Granted, I don't blame the teachers per se, the true poison is within the bureaucratic innards of the system and they are the main drivers of the politicization, since they hitched their wagon to that start long ago to increase their power base. But, you will get enough of the rank and file to man the picket lines and spread the same poison (see Wisconsin) that they should get a heavy share of blame too.

So, fuck 'em. Do your fucking job and quit whinging about how hard it all is and how no one appreciates you the way you should be.

[KDN]

My only problem with teachers is that they should see that in hard times they can't expect not to face cuts or freezes in pay and benefits, and that it is no sin even in good times to talk about that. But in that respect they seem no different than ANY constituency which gets government funds.

No different any group anywhere. No one wants to be laid off or have their budgets cut, and whenever it happens it's so totally unfair.

The one thing that I hate most about teachers (and, considering the volume of teachers in my life and the importance of one in particular, this is a subject that I deal with a lot) is how in denial they are about how and where their union fucks them. The teachers of my generation defend the pension and tenure regimes as forcefully as anybody despite how those pillars of the education establishment more than anybody (because they someday want them) but those institutions are practically designed to screw them over. But if you dare to point any structural deficiencies out then you must be a teacher and child hating thug. The NEA and UFT are always right.

[Loki]

"I know this was only a half hour, but trust me it took a lot longer to put this together."

Translation: Wah!!! It took a long time to get 6 year olds with th attention spans of house flies to learn 30 minutes of choreography! Wah!!! My job is really hard, and I don't think anyone appreciates it because I have a huge fucking martyr complex. Wah!!! Nobody told me how annoying 6 year olds are!!!

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Warty, do you have your PhD? Do you go to Traktor Pulls? How much money do you make, anyway?

[MNG]

Boy, the butthurt is strong in the Right Rev.

Whatsa matta? Am I being DISHONEST!!!!??

[MNG]

Hey Rev, there is talk about many GOP senators and Reps not voting to extend the payroll tax today.

Must be those tax hikes its tied to, right? It's ALWAYS been about the tax hikes.

Any suggestion otherwise is evidence of DISHONESTY!!!

[Fluffy]

I think it's probably more that spending it's tied to.

Not the UI spending or Medicare spending, either.

There's the little matter of the $40 trillion unfunded SSI obligation hanging out there.

People say the Bush tax cuts were irresponsible. But I really lack words to describe the level of irresponsibility it takes to cut SSI taxes.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

People say the Bush tax cuts were irresponsible. But I really lack words to describe the level of irresponsibility it takes to cut SSI taxes.

This, to me, just means that you subscribe to the accounting fiction that is SSI, as divorced from general obligations. I think that accounting separation is entirely a fiction, and therefore, the real irresponsibility is continuing to dump trillions elsewhere instead of sustaining the program.

In other words, they should cut spending, not raise taxes, and an SS tax cut is like any other: it should be "funded" with cuts elsewhere or to that program.

[MNG]

Sure, you can say that. But a while back the Rev through a hissy fit declaring I was dishonest because I suggested GOP opposition was based in something other than the tax hike that Dems at one time tied the payroll tax cut to. He declared I was dishonest because it "had ALWAYS been about the tax hike."

That very week the GOP couldn't get its own party to support a version of the tax cut that, you guessed it, contained no tax hike!

DISHONEST!!!!

[R C Dean]

Its a strange world when Dems are voting to gut Social Security funding, and Repubs are voting to save it.

[WTF]

Its a strange world when Dems are voting to gut Social Security funding, and Repubs are voting to save it.

It's about positioning for the upcoming election. Each side is looking to pin an albatross around the other's neck.

[MNG]

"It's about positioning for the upcoming election."

Indeed. Obama currently acts like it is such a fundamental thing, but if that were the case why didn't he push this right out of the box in 2009? To my knowledge he did not...

Likewise the GOP didn't seem to make much of a fuss about "accounting for" lost revenue from other tax cuts, they treated them as a good in itself.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Witness what happens when the Wild Attention Whore is ignored. It puts on a fantastic display of Demonstrative Behavior, fanning its Colorful Self-Absorption Wings, crying for a mate.

[MNG]

All who fail to see the beauty and wisdom of TAO's arguments are, of course, dishonest trolls.

Yawn.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

It opens its mouth in an attempt to feign disinterest, but inside, its begging for a playmate.

[Warty]

What are you talking about, dude?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I am just mocking Mr. Makes-More-Money-Than-You-Do. Yesterday he decided to yet-again call me a racist and I decided he doesn't deserve anything but mockery.

[Warty]

Who?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

MNG.

[Warty]

*whoosh*

or

PWND

Take your pick.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Damn you, you magnificent bastard. And here I thought you were being the dumb one.

[sarcasmic]

What shocked me, and to some extent still does, is how many functional idiots there are out there, and how many of them are given positions of power.

It is as if someone says "Well, they're too stupid to actually do the job, and we can't fire them without getting sued, so let's promote them to supervisor."

[John]

Me too. Most of the people out there whose intelligence really impresses me are no where near any position of authority. And sizable minority or maybe small majority of them never went to college.

[sarcasmic]

Another thing that I found to be shocking is how people with no capacity for reason are able to attain college degrees.
These people can't think for shit, but they are good at retaining and regurgitating information that is meaningless to them.

[Loki]

they are good at retaining and regurgitating information that is meaningless to them.

Unfortunately the crap they regurgitate isn't meaningless to them, but it is to anyone else who actually works for a living.

[Leftist Behavior]

When the title of an article includes the words "sexy pirate costume", I'm expecting pics. Sadly, I am now disappointed.

[MNG]

It's the kind of thing the FTC should look into as false advertising...

[P Brooks]

I gots ta know:

What's teh MOST STUPIDEST Heinlein quote?

[Sari Bowtatt]

Flip to the middle of Stranger in a Strange Land and jab your pointer finger in.

[Brett L]

Please. You've never tried to read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" or "Number of the Beast" if you think Stranger is anywhere near the bottom.

[SugarFree]

"To Sail Beyond the Sunset"

Which part didn't you like? Getting the gynecological exam from her dad that she's also sexually attracted to, or the part where she has sex with her adult son while he's also a 6-year-old asleep in the backseat of the car?

[Brett L]

I think your 2nd example is actually from Time Enough for Love. And, sadly, the incest was trivially annoying compared to the horrors of the "plot".

[Sparky]

Aw shit, and I just bought that book too. Well it's sitting there waiting to be read so I'll go through with it anyway. I suppose if I can get through Catch-22 I can get through anything.

[SugarFree]

Sparky, TEFL is a much better book. It is the beginning of the end, but still readable. Assuming author surrogate narration doesn't drive you nuts.

[SugarFree]

The same scene appears in both, it is just told from her point of view in TSBTS.

[Brett L]

Oh, right. I remember now. Screwing your kids, or letting them screw each other is okay, but smoking pot is bad.

[db]

Hey, I liked TNOTB. Job was the best of his late works, however. The Cat who Walks Thrrough Walls was pretty fun too.

[Atanarjuat]

I've read a bit of Heinlein, not a lot, but The Green Hills of Earth (short story collection) was really good.

[Brett L]

I cut from my original comment a statement about how TNOTB had an awesome conceit -- that all universes are equally real and reachable, including the early SF/F universes. It was just terribly executed. You can't have a guy who happens to be named John Carter marry a human named Dejah Thoris in a multiverse where John Carter of Mars and his Red Martian princess are also real.

[Tonio]

And remember that TSBS and NoB were written in his last years when he was dying of a brain tumor.

[Mike M.]

In some rare good news, the wind power tax credit ended yesterday and will not be extended. Goo-goos everywhere are predictably upset.

[MNG]

I think one of us is confused as to what a goo-goo is. Traditionally I've always heard that term in reference to people who want to reform government by getting rid of any "special interest" type of stuff as well as corruption in general.

[MNG]

John, I wonder what are your thoughts on the "personhood" bill that passed the VA House recently? I know you mentioned the other day you are pro-life but that you don't agreee with what the bill is about, i.e., declaring personhood at the very moment of conception.

[John]

I haven't read it to be honest. It would seem to be doomed under Roe v. Wade though. If a person is a "person" from conception, then all abortion is murder. And that is not going to fly.

[MNG]

The GOP is using that excuse, which is hilarious. The sponsor of the bill, when confronted with the charge that the bill should mean the end of abortion, many IVF procedures and some contraceptives said "well, there's caselaw and precedent from the SCOTUS that prevents that." Literally two minutes before that he condemned that very caselaw and precedent and called for its repeal...WTF?

[MNG]

I think those of us in this region are seeing a neat natural experiment about the difference between one-party blue and red rule. VA has gone Red while Maryland is still blue.

Contrary to what's often said around here 1. there do seem to be significant differences in what is pushed and passed (the big bill in Maryland this session is allowing SSM, the big one in VA is this abortion stuff) though 2. there doesn't seem to be any less willingness on the part of the red state government to turn to government intrusion and regulation (VA is mandating women seeking abortion get an ultrasound and abortion clinics have had their regulations upped considerably).

[John]

That and Maryland is pretty close to bankrupt and so desperate for money the governor wants to tax I-Tunes purchases. To me that is the bigger difference.

[MNG]

Meh, Virginia is passing a tax on Amazon purchases (sponsored by a Republican iirc).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming the blue team in MD is doing what libertarians would see as better. In VA for example they are repealing the old one gun a month law and other things libertarians should applaud. I'm just saying that it's simply a shift from some areas to others.

[John]

I don't follow either politics closly. But Maryland seems in terrible fiscal shape. It is pretty close to bankruptcy. And Virginia seems nowhere near that. But the Maryland legislature has been a corrupt single party dictatorship for decades. It seems to be one step above Massachusetts in that regard.

[MNG]

""But the Maryland legislature has been a corrupt single party dictatorship for decades."

One area where you will get no disagreement from me.

[cw]

What I've seen written here is that, though Team Red and Team Blue have different pet issues, their methods are the same: more government control over individuals' lives.

[cw]

I should add that that method is an end in itself for these people.

[MNG]

You have a lot of people that hold that, yes. But you have people who hold that the two parties are basically the same on every issue, that seems not true according to this observation. Likewise you have a lot of people here who claim the reds want less intrusion, and that also seems wrong.

[cw]

I agree with both points. It's Republican rhetoric (i.e., "Big Government is bad") that continues to draw some libertarians in (including myself every now and then). Many others also care more about economic freedom than social freedom, and they believe Republicans are marginally better on economics.

What I really don't get is how so-called Tea-Party types are lining up behind Santorum, when Paul is obviously the best choice from a small-government perspective. As Cato author Gene Healy wrote, Santorum is the anti-libertarian candidate. What the hell is going on here?

Sigh.

[cynical]

I'm curious whether a court would be bold enough to declare that personhood is not granted at conception in striking the law down. If not, it will make things very complicated if they want to defend abortion without denying prenatal personhood.

[DanD]

OK, reasonoids. The GM profit news was totally ignored yesterday. Let's face up to it. What's the significance of it? The goddamn nightly news spent 10 whole minutes on its victory lap yesterday.

[MNG]

You have to give Santorum credit, he went to Detroit, acknowledged the profits, and said he was still glad he opposed the auto bailout, then, to put the cherry on top, he pointed out that while Mitt opposed it he supported TARP.

[Brett L]

While I'm glad GM is no longer selling cars at a loss and trying to make it up in volume, I'm pretty sure I could make money in less than 3 years if the government would buy up my largest money sink and subsidize my cars.

[MNG]

I thought this was interesting about the whole GM debate at the time: a lot of liberals who talk about how corporations are evil were at the time arguing that these big-assed corporations were national treasures akin to Yosemite or something...

[Dumbass]

You are gay and dum minge.

[cw]

WTF? He made a good point.

[MNG]

The Right-leaning folks talk and think like this. Can't blame em, look what they listen, read and watch all day...

[cw]

Well, lets be fair now. Fundamentalists on the right and left listen, read and watch dumb shit all day. And they never question their beliefs, hence why I call them fundamentalists.

[MNG]

Indeed. I find MSNBC to be worse than Fox. If you watch Fox even on their most biased shows they tend to have at least one representative of the other side on camera. Often on MSNBC it's a liberal host with a bevy of liberal analysts...

Both are tiresome.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Fox's format is roughly the equivalent of the "let's you and him fight" method of analysis. MSNBC is more akin to a hugbox.

[cw]

Hell, I used to watch Fox News all the time. But then I started to notice, at least on the talk shows, the cognitive dissonance. Why is government spending so poorly executed in regard to the welfare state, yet the U.S. needs to constantly ramp up spending on the warfare state? Too much neocon inconsistency for me.

[sarcasmic]

GM is different. They're subsidized with money taken by government force, and their workers are forced to pay dues to unions.
That makes them paragons of virtue.

The evil corporations are the ones that take in profits and don't have unionized workers.
All that voluntary cooperation is icky.

[MNG]

"their workers are forced to pay dues to unions."

They are forced to work at GM? Or you mean if they choose to work at GM they have to abide by their contract with GM?

[R C Dean]

They are forced to accept a government imposed contract in order to work at GM. Sure, they could avoid it by not working there, but lets not pretend that there is freedom of contract up and down the line, here.

[MNG]

"They are forced to accept a government imposed contract in order to work at GM."

But people don't have a "right" to a job, right RC?

Here we have a case of people not liking the terms of their contract with their employer

[R C Dean]

No, you don't. But you do have a right to contract with an employer on terms that are mutually agreeable, without additional terms forced on you by state "closed shop" laws.

[T]

I may be wrong, but IIRC Michigan is a closed shop state. You accept a job at GM, you join the union. This is a function of state law, not the union contract. Otherwise union contracts like the Teamsters contract with UPS would require every worker countrywide to join, which I know to be false.

We can skip over the usual wrangling about contracts and agree that union rules in this country are in large part determined by the feds, right? And most libertarians would fine with unions if the state got out of the contract negotiations and let the businesses, workers, and unions handle things without government interference.

[MNG]

"This is a function of state law, not the union contract."

Nope, that is NOT how that works. The union and employer have a contract which calls for all employment to be of union members. RTW states do not allow such contracts, union shop states do.

[MNG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_shop

A union shop is a form of a union security clause under which the employer agrees to hire either labor union members or nonmembers but all non-union employees must become union members within a specified period of time or lose their jobs."

It's a clause in the contract. RTW states bar such clauses.

[cw]

As long as the state doesn't determine the contract, I see nothing wrong with a union shop, at least from a libertarian perspective.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

As long as the state doesn't determine the contract, I see nothing wrong with a union shop, at least from a libertarian perspective.

No, from the Libertopia perspective, there is no problem. The issue, of course, is that the NLRA forces an employer to negotiate with a CBU when the employees want one, and then the CBU presses for a closed shop in the CBA, a CBA that wouldn't exist were not for the NLRA in the first place.

[R C Dean]

I tracked down MI closed shop law. It is expressed as permission for the employer to contract a closed shop. So, points to him on this one.

As noted before, any discussion about union contracts is a discussion of who the restriction on freedom of association/contract falls on. Certainly the union contract with the employer is a violation of the employer's freedom under our system.

If that agreement (which is state-imposed) also includes a closed shop requirement, then the argument is whether that requirement should be viewed as a violation of the employees right to not associate with the union, or an exercise of the employer's right to contract with the union however it wants. Since the union contract itself arises out of a violation of the employer's freedom of contract/association, you can see how this latter position is at least questionable.

[T]

Um, so the state either bars or allows such contracts. That makes the contract terms a function of STATE LAW, doesn't it?

Fucktarded tapdancing bunnies, you'll argue just to argue. I gotta admit, you love the game, MNG.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

We can skip over the usual wrangling about contracts and agree that union rules in this country are in large part determined by the feds, right? And most libertarians would fine with unions if the state got out of the contract negotiations and let the businesses, workers, and unions handle things without government interference.

Well, normally you could, but there are certain individuals (*ahem*) who think the fact that labor strife killed people back in the day is a justification for the current NLRA/B regime. You know, because criminals should be able to hold a nation hostage and all.

[MNG]

Look whos' attention whoring now...

[AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA]

still you

[DanD]

Here's my take. China saved their ass. And most of the cars they sell in China are made in China. The US-based workers are enjoying a lot of the benefit from that thanks to profit-sharing.

But considering that the US treasury is still holding all those shares at a loss, and an ugly precedent was established by wiping out the previous stakeholders, I still don't see the good news. No one I've talked to understands just how much money was sunk into GM getting bailed out. Everyone has believed the "paid back in full" line and hasn't bothered to investigate further.

[Average American]

Everyone has believed the "paid back in full" line and hasn't bothered to investigate further.

If that's what the newspaper says, then I'll leave it at that.

[P Brooks]

part of the "burning man" crowd and such.

Humungus, I am disappoint.

[P Brooks]

As ridiculous as it sounds, that was the first time I became aware that clever people are buried in every nook and cranny of life. It is astonishing that no one pointed this out to me sooner.

Why do I assume she goes one to wonder why Society has failed to to ferret out these astounding native intelligences and provide them with free college educations?

[P Brooks]

What's the significance of it?

If you stop paying your bills, you have more money to spend on chocolate martinis.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

A martini is a drink made with vodka or gin, and may contain vermouth. It can be served up or on the rocks.

Anything else is an abomination, and should be put to death, and its Choco-Razz Drizzle shall be upon its head.

[SugarFree]

A martini is a drink made with vodka or gin, and may contain vermouth.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I was being generous, but I subscribe to your Martini Orthodoxy.

[SugarFree]

By the way, the reason a lot of people don't like vermouth is because they have often been served rancid vermouth. Vermouth should be refrigerated after opening.

/Booze PSA

[Zeb]

So I should get rid of the bottle that sits in my liquor cabinet for 5 years?
Maybe that's why I don't like martinis.
I don't know if there is a name for it, but gin with a little cointreau and a dash of bitters makes a nice drink.

[SugarFree]

Yes, any of the aperitif wines should be refrigerated after opening. Vermouth, Lillet, etc.

gin with a little cointreau and a dash of bitters

The Zebulon.

[Tonio]

Sug, if you don't finish the bottle of Vermouth before it goes bad you're doing it wrong (good for cooking, too).

Lots of restaurants where I live substitute "olive juice" (the sodium metabisulfite solution in which the olives are packed) as a substitute for Vermouth. An abomination, but possibly due to bizarre ABC laws prohibiting mixing distilled spirits with wine.

[SugarFree]

From what I've read, vermouth can go off in just a few days.

[sarcasmic]

A martini is a drink made with vodka or gin, and may contain vermouth that is served in a martini glass.

*that ought to tick some people off hehehehe*

[Leftist Behavior]

Single malt scotch is a drink best enjoyed paired with a can of Mountain Dew.

[sarcasmic]

Serve it in a martini glass and it becomes a martini.

Now all it needs is a clever adjective.

[SugarFree]

"Here's a beer."

[sip] [spit-take] "What the fuck is that?!?"

"Water out of the toilet after that syphilitic dwarf forgot to flush. But it's served in a beer glass so it's a beer, right?"

[sarcasmic]

Nope. Doesn't work that way.
Now if that same liquid had been served in a martini glass it could be called a "syphilitic dwarf piss martini".
Beer, however, is beer.

[robc]

Beer, however, is beer

Says someone who has never had a Gueuze, im guessing.

[sarcasmic]

Bad guess.

[robc]

Then you are well aware that beer is not just beer.

Or, then again, maybe it is.

[sarcasmic]

Lambics are outliers.

[robc]

Tasty, tasty outliers.

[sarcasmic]

I like the raspberry one myself.

Haven't had on in years though. Shit's damned expensive.
I'd rather brew up a batch of pilsner.

[SugarFree]

You argument might have some merit if the drink was named after the glass, but it is the other way around.

[SugarFree]

*Your* me type gud one day

[robc]

You are from KY. They are impressed whenever we manage to wear shoes.

*check feet*

Huh, I actually am. That is odd.

[sarcasmic]

You argument might have some merit if the drink was named after the glass, but it is the other way around.

The glass was named after a drink containing gin and vermouth.
Then enterprising mixologists started serving their own concoctions in that glass and naming them after it.

It's both.

[robc]

This.

Without vermouth, it aint a martini. With vodka, it aint a martini.

Martinis should be wet and dirty.

[Marshall Gill]

Animal. A martini is a drink made with gin vodka and may contain vermouth a drop of olive juice.

[db]

I have never understood the appeal of martinis ofany sort.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

I like a lime wedge, and a very small slice of habenro* in there too. And just enough vermouth to wet the glass.

About a 1/2 of an inch long and 1/32 of an inch wide. That's all it takes.

[KMA too]

"Excuse me, Mister; I can make that. Do you want the cucumber bruised?"

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Bombay Sapphire and a drop of vermouth.

[Leftist Behavior]

Martinis with vodka? And you think yourself a drink snob?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Look, it's kind of like ST:Voyager being canon. I don't like it, but it's there.

[Leftist Behavior]

If I made a wildly successful movie franchise featuring a debonair secret agent who ordered appletinis, would that become part of the martini canon? Some traditions are too important to be compromised.

[sarcasmic]

Or perhaps a wildly successful cable program about single women who have a lot of sex, live in a city, and drink non-traditional concoctions served in martini glasses.

Would that become part of the martini canon?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

They drank Cosmopolitans, which are served in martini glasses, but should not be considered "girl drinks". The thing is basically straight vodka and Cointreau with a dash of cranberry.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Huh - the old cocktail book I have (Mr. Boston) has vodka in it, but Wikipedia says gin. I think I'll say I am wrong here.

I do only drink gin, though.

Anyway, vermouth is not a necessary component, and THAT has a much-storied history, found in the hoary joke that the bartender should just wave the bottle of vermouth around the glass.

[SugarFree]

vermouth is not a necessary component

If you want a shaken gin straight-up with olives, order that.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I do. It's called a dry martini.

[robc]

No.

A dry martini is light on the vermouth. Without vermouth, you are drinking gin.

NTTIAWWT

[SugarFree]

Even a dry martini contains some vermouth. Otherwise it is just gin.

It's all image, I think: If you are drinking a martini, it's debonair. If you are just guzzling gin, you are W. C. Fields-esque drunk.

Drink straight gin if you want, but leave the poor martini alone.

[sarcasmic]

Even a dry martini contains some vermouth.

I knew a bartender who would make a big show out of putting a few drops of vermouth into the glass, swish them out onto the floor, then add the gin.

[robc]

SF, I feel its getting to the point in the thread where I need to post Watterson's mint julep recipe.

Off to google...

[robc]

"Pluck the mint gently from its bed, just as the dew of the evening is about to form upon it. Select the choicer sprigs only, but do not rinse them. Prepare the simple syrup and measure out a half-tumbler of whiskey. Pour the whiskey into a well-frosted silver cup, throw the other ingredients away and drink the whiskey."

[SugarFree]

I pretty much agree with that. Mint juleps are fairly vile. It's a barbaric thing to do to a glass of bourbon.

[robc]

My rule on bourbon is that another more expensive than makers should be drunk straight, anything less expensive is a mixer and MM is fair game.

But, yeah, Juleps are vile. If I go to the track during derby week, I will have one out of tradition. Otherwise I avoid.

[sarcasmic]

Bacon bourbon anyone?

http://www.fieldandstream.com/.....ed-bourbon

I've actually done this and it's AWESOME!

[T]

Yup. I have as well. It's like alcoholic bacon. It makes a fantastic bloody mary.

But it's bizarre when you mix it with coke.

[KDN]

So what's the general feeling on manhattans? They're seemingly ignored nowadays.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Love manhattans. My other go-to drink.

[SugarFree]

So what's the general feeling on manhattans?

I like them, but they have the same problem as martinis for a lot of people... sweet vermouth goes rancid behind the bar.

I generally make a variant on the Manhattan, using Lillet Rouge instead of sweet vermouth. And whiskey re-hydrated dried sour cherries instead of those horrid red things sold as maraschino cherries.

[John]

You have to know how to make them SF. It takes days to make a proper mint jullip. You have to infuse the bourbon with mint. Most people just crush some ice and throw a few mint leaves in and call it a day. There is more to it than that. A good one is like a bourbon mojito.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I don't mind mint juleps, but it shouldn't be made with anything but Jim Beam and below.

[SugarFree]

The basic problem I have is the mint. I really don't care for it very much.

On another topic... I've been enjoying the kind attentions of Ransom Oregon Spirit Whiskey as of late. Just for sipping and extremely delicious.

Ransom's Old Tom Gin is amazing, which is why I took a chance on the whiskey.

[T]

Garrison Brothers Bourbon is my non-beer tipple of choice these days. Highly recommended.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Went to Portland last May. Drank about a gallon of Whipper Snapper. Excellent booze.

[P Brooks]

If you are just guzzling gin, you are W. C. Fields-esque drunk.

And the subject of a Mojo Nixon song.

[SugarFree]

"He don't work here."

[db]

Your store could use some fixin'.

[Joe M]

This is intriguing. Will Romney lose another caucus he was thought to have won initially? Of course, it doesn't matter a lot, since Paul is dominating the delegates process, but the press could be nice for him.

Will Ron Paul win Maine caucuses after all? State GOP taking new tally.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Rational discussion will not be tolerated.

http://www.miamiherald.com/201.....ink=fbuser

[sarcasmic]

Thoughtcrime will not be tolerated.

[Joanie Woods]

That makes a lot of sense dude. WOw.

http://www.anon-dot.tk

[Isaac Bartram]

Huh - the old cocktail book I have (Mr. Boston) has vodka in it, but Wikipedia says gin. I think I'll say I am wrong here.

I could be wrong, but my experience is that a martini contains gin and vermouth.

If you want one made with vodka instead of gin, you need to specify that you want a vodka martini.

And I do agree that to be a martini, dry vermouth is required.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Somewhere along the way, I heard that the martini was originally composed of vodka and vermouth. However, at the time vodka was considered an inferior spirit, because of it's Russian/Polish heritage, with limited distribution in the US. So, some bars made the drink but substituted gin, which was a common spirit in the US.

[White Indian]

Hey guys, which is better a Mac or a PC?

[Tulpa]

Hey guys, which is better a Mac or a PC?

[liming crusher wear parts]

The officer did not people call the shots, not as good as home to sell sweet potatoes

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