"A family that calls 911 for a medical emergency needs to know they can receive medical treatment without being attacked"
A Colorado man brought a federal lawsuit against the city of Aurora, the police department, and in particular, the three police officers who responded to a 911 by the man's partner back in December:
Rickey Burrell and his attorney Mari Newman, of Killmer, Lane and Newman, says the family called 911 because Burrell was having a seizure.
Instead of helping Burrell, Newman says three police officers handcuffed him, breaking the man's wrist. The complaint filed in federal court states: "[Police] inexplicably, and without any provocation whatsoever or probable cause to believe Mr. Burrell had engaged in any wrongdoing, one of the defendants jumped Mr. Burrell who had not moved and was still lying face down on the bed."
The newly released 911 recording proves that Burnell's partner, Evelyn King, used words that might have made police a little bit cautious, but this was obviously still a request of help for Burnell:
King: "He's had three seizures, he's a recovering alcoholic, but he's incoherent like he's having another one." …
Dispatcher: "Do you think he's gonna be combative with paramedics?"
King: "Maybe, maybe not."…
King: "I know he's incoherent cause he never fights me."
Dispatch: "Is he asleep or is he awake?"
King: "He looks like he's sleeping, snoring, he seems to have calm down."
King: "He's passing out and he's combative."
Burnell's lawyer pointed out that regardless of King's earlier statements, police were obligated to treat the situation first and foremost as a medical emergency, especially since Burnell was apparently face down and unconscious when police arrived:
"This is a situation here where we need to teach Colorado law enforcement they need to change their ways, they need to treat citizens with respect and fairness. And a family that calls 911 for a medical emergency needs to know they can receive medical treatment without being attacked."
This excess was not unique. In 2010, a Mt. Lebanon, PA woman filed a federal lawsuit after cops handcuffed her and restrained her head while she was in the midst of an epileptic seizure (which her coworkers had told 911). Police claimed she was overdosing on cocaine which would obviously still be a medical emergency and they charged her with aggravated assault -- later dismissed -- for her mid-seizure biting of an EMT's finger "even after they learned from Ms. Yochum's doctor that the girl had epilepsy and was not taking any illegal drugs." I can't find an update on this case since the lawsuit was filed, but it sounds well worth suing over.
There are, of course, other instances of people in distress getting brutality instead of help.
Reason on police, as well as my recent look at some of the police violence at Occupy Oakland, particularly the flash-bang assault on the already injured, now hospitalized Scott Olsen.
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So you're going to save them for late in the day, then, Lucy. A clever, and particularly evil, strategy. Maybe we should call you Lucy Luthor.
I'd say I hope those cops get fired, but...that would be stupid.
Or! I have terrible time management skills and lots to do!
I mean, yes. It's all scheming and plotting. Ahem.
Be nice Epi. All Lucy is doing is picking up Radley's nut-punching torch. And Radley looks way more like a Luthor than Lucy.
Hmm, I was assuming you were using the Cavanaugh Technique, which is when you post at a late hour, and your post unofficially becomes the night's general thread for the West Coasters and night owls, thereby increasing the page hits than can be directly attributed to you.
I mean, I assume they will fire you if you don't draw the right levels of page hits, right? Or does that merely warrant a severe beating? Waterboarding?
Mac: Frank, does that waterboard really work?
Frank: (laughs) You bet your ass! I got Dee to admit to things she never did!
You know me, I love when my carefully written posts turn into debates about Star Trek and demands for adjectives (okay, I sort of actually do.)
Also, Cavanaugh DOES live in California. It is a real place and all.
As a Californian, I resent the implication that this is a real place. I'm not sure what it is, actually, but I know it ain't got nothing to do with reality.
Nice try, Lucy, but you can't fool us. California isn't real, and neither is Tim.
Vampires aren't real. Just like elves, gremlins and Tim Cavanaugh.
Tim is just a construct of the mind that allows us to recognize the universe's inexorable entropic decline.
Without Tim there is no cause and effect.
Tim is just a construct of the mind that allows us to recognize the universe's inexorable entropic decline.
Without Tim there is no cause and effect.
cap l is Nietchze? Who'da thunk it? How, ahem, groovy!
So, where was I born and whose column did I proof on Wednesday?!
Do not try to edit for Tim Cavanaugh ? that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no Tim Cavanaugh.
I cannot answer your questions, but here is someone who may be able to help you.
where was I born
--------------------
uh, oh; that presidential bid may now be in jeopardy.
So, where was I born and whose column did I proof on Wednesday?!
You took the red pill recently, didn't you?
Seriously, you were conceived in a tofu milkshake and you have a wayward brother named Vincent.
I've said too much...
you were conceived in a tofu milkshake
Gross. I'm actually kinda scared to look that up on Urban Dictionary.
Tim cannot be a native Californian as even we don't hate the LAT with the passion that he does.
I love when my carefully written posts turn into debates about Star Trek
Wait until you get pummeled with a beer or pizza flame war, Lucy. Then the claws protract and the brass knuckles brandish.
Listen not to the greasy wop, glorified fleet enema fetishist, AKA the Episiarch Technique. Warty told me so.
IRT to your latest testicular torsion Lucy, it strengthens my position that police should not be anywhere near medical calls, and even if deemed needed, then they are to be under the direction of paramedics and EMT's, not the other way around. Even if they have first responder training; in my experience dealing with cops and medical emergencies via ER shifts and rotations, they do way more harm than good since the ability to compartmentalize the legit medical emergency and divorce the badge power goes out the window. How'd you like the fire dept. to have explicit detention and arrest powers? There's a reason why Paras and EMTs don't.
I see so much wrong with how both of these cases were approached and handled, and further training and refreshers are needed for both the responders and the dispatchers; by dispatchers asking the right questions, many many a sordid episode can be avoided. Disgraceful.
It is a real place and all.
Yeah, until the San Andreas has it's overdue massive gas reflux and America's Greece goes the way of Atlantis.
How did you know my about my secret fantasy?
I know things, Banjos. I've...seen things. Thongs you wouldn't know...nor would understand. From one Tool-head to another.
A love poem to my progressive fans:
I am just a worthless liar,
I am just an imbecile.
I will only complicate you,
trust in me and fall as well.
I will find a center in you,
I will chew it up and leave.
I will work to elevate you,
Just enough to bring you down.
Mooooaaar SOBER!
Even if they have first responder training;
---------------------
maybe it's semantics but the training does not make them first responders and, technically, they should only be first if a crime has been committed. Seems EMTs would have a level of training to understand that certain medical emergencies might cause belligerence or other aberrant behavior.
maybe it's semantics but the training does not make them first responders
It's admittedly a gray area, with the advent of disaster response training and other basic medical interventions like CPR and other basic first aid response, but you're essentially correct. They have no business ascertaining and making medical judgement calls by virtue of their job. Leave it to the professionals.
In the medical world, this is known as "Practicing out of scope."
In the medical world, this is known as "Practicing out of scope."
--------------------------
and it would result in a malpractice suit. I've known some good cops; worked with them in a previous life. But, then there are the ones who view the badge as a penis extension and tarnish the entire LE community.
demands for adjectives
OK, here is my list:
Lucy Steigerwald: Hot and Intellectual.
Greasy Wop Glorified Fleet Enema Fetishist Episiarch Technique: Smelly and Corpulent.
Corpulent?!? Destroying you is my only purpose now.
Don't sweat the technique, Epi-stle.
Lucy actually posts about interesting things, not crap like traffic disruptions or shilling for shome shitty book.
Boo! Pointing out media scare mongering and promoting an awesome book is good. Also all three of the (implied) mentioned are better writers than I am.
Thanks, though.
Dammit, Lucy. I love you more every day!
Excuse me, the US Government has clearly stated that waterboarding IS NOT torture. I've heard it's actually quite good for the complexion.
I've tried to inculcate to my daughter, you NEVER want to interact with law enforcement. These fucks are not there to help you, to protect you, to serve you. They exist to draw a pay check and to keep you in line.
Better treatment in a gated community.
The POLICe protect and serve
the POLIS' property values.
It's fast becoming a rule to abide by, under all but the most pressing circumstances: If you have a medical emergency, drive to the ER. Do not call 911. It's sad that it's comes to this, but it's really a matter of weighing risk - chances are you'll make it to the ER with little problem, while there seems to be increasing odds that the police will end up making matters worse.
I'd bet a bennie that Burrell was a bottom-of-the-gene-pool frequent flier chillin' in dogpatch. Red Carpet treatment fo da playahz!
I'd bet a bennie that Burrell was a bottom-of-the-gene-pool frequent flier chillin' in dogpatch. Red Carpet treatment fo da playahz!
Blame EMTALA. FF or not.
My wife has recently come to believe the same thing. After rolling her eyes at me for years when I've complained about some bone-headed things the cops have done, she got a traffic ticket for "unsafe passing" while making a right turn in the right turn lane. The county had repaved the road but not striped it yet. There had always been a turn lane there but with without the stripes the cop figured this was an unsafe maneuver and spent over an hour at that intersection ticketing everyone who made a right turn. She fought it and lost. "Right and wrong doesn't even matter! They just want my money!" I'm so proud of my budding libertarian.
A female libertarian? She needs to surrender her vagina before the both of you procreate
*barf*
Can't someone creat a reasonable for phones so I don't have to see tripe like this? I'm willing to pay. It's just not always convenient to be at my computer.
Or you could use your brain read only your desire posts. Is it the OCD baby?
barf
barf it out?
Who is her gyno? Linda Blair
Most 911 medical calls don't result in the police being dispatched.
In this case, fearing a "combative" patient, the dispatcher routed police too.
Therefore, in general, calling 911 for a medical emergency is safe.
Note to self: For best results, tell dispatcher I think friend is dying but he is dying calmly.
...for a primary purpose:
Protect and Serve the city-State's* property values.
Kelly Thomas died for your sins.
For the love of money [property values] is the root of all evil [police brutality].
How's that [updated] version?
Property can't have low-class bums, drunks, or spastics ruining the neighborhood - or the protectors.
Cops and prosecutors know on which side their bread is buttered. It's not the poor who contribute to campaign chests.
______________
* polis is often translated as "city-state" https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Polis
I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but the use of 2500 year-old words in some other language as evidence for anything is just silly. The word was borrowed into English five hundred years ago and now has a completely different meaning. Like most post-modern theorizing it amounts to a series of cute puns that say nothing about current meanings or understandings of anything. But people who think they are saying something profound about language when they discover these cute puns are legion at my university and elsewhere, and someone who actually knows something about how language works needs to answer them occasionally.
Why do you waste the time? Conversations with Rather are one step up from conversations with the Eliza computer program.
Eliza at least creates the appearance, however brief and ultimately found to be wrong, again... the APPEARANCE of intelligence
this distinguishes Eliza from Rather
speaking from the perspective of somebody interested in artificial intelligence algorithms, neural networks, etc. i wonder if it would be more difficult to create artificial stupidity... iow, a program that could emulate rather-level stupidity. would the rule sets, heuristics, etc. be more or less complicated to create?
an interesting question
don't fuck with me little boy
*barf*
I think it's more a mental illness thing than any pretension. The C in RCTL is for "crazy". Too bad. Hope she doesn't go all Jared Loughner on one of the commenters one day, although I can think of one example where it might be karmic.
Thanks, cynical, for proving just how against liberty you are.
Political dissent is regarded as a mental in libertarian circles, even in a place called Reason.
Headline:
Libertarianism Becomes a Parody of Itself.
Drink!
Drink jagermeister. It's medicine.
That's what they told me last New Year's Eve.
Try Hemlock, Injun
*barf*
It isn't the content of the dissent, but the manner in which it's expressed -- the obsession with word relations, the excessive repetition of ideas.
Some say it's trolling, but I don't think the motivation is attention so much as an inability to resist the compulsion to post.
Besides, I thought it was established that WI was a rather pseudonym, and I understood that rather and rctl stood for "rather crazy than libertarian". You can't really justifiably take offense at a label you've chosen for yourself.
You are ill-informed
No libertarian ever did that.
*barf*
cynical, are you an idiot savant?
*barf*
Pretty much, except for the savant part.
My little Simon Lynch, your mercury is rising
2500 year-old words in some other language as evidence for anything is just silly
Actually, it's not being used as proof, so let's torch that straw man, right now, shyster.
Etymology reveals how unchanging the violence inherent in the system, (Holy Grail) remains over thousands of years of the agricultural city-State, i.e.,:
The POLICe protect the POLIS' property values.
Now, if you want it in modern English:
The cops protect and serve the rich. Police and Prosecutors know how they get elected and paid.
Jeesh, I thought we all knew that.
So did the ancient Greeks.
Puh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEEULg-vHIw
lease.
Okay, "robust" key word. :S
I know the catechism of the capitalist religio-economic faith very well, hazeeran.
Capitalism is failing right now for the same reason that Communism failed: too highly concentrated wealth and power in the hands of too few hierarchical elite.
It doesn't matter which -ism spreadsheet is open when the program of civilization does exactly the same thing time after time:
1. Concentrate wealth and power into too few hands (one of 5 primary defining characteristics of civilization according to anthropology scholarship.)
2. Sociopolitical collapse (need a list of them?)
Wash, rinse, repeat as desired. Read your history.
And your repeating orthodox political slogans isn't going to help any more than it did in the Soviet Union.
P.S. About the only thing libertarians have right is that capitalism is better than communism. (hence, their constant and tiresome comparison.) But then, that's like saying a slow cancer is better to get than a fast cancer. Still takes ya, eventually.
Capitalism is failing right now for the same reason that Communism failed: too highly concentrated wealth and power in the hands of too few hierarchical elite.
So your problem is that humans are primates?
Or maybe, you have a problem with the mechanism of evolution.
You are going to get a smack on the hands from sevo for answering to that clown. Truth be told sevo is probably right. However, I suggest another solution. Perhaps impossible, but I'll put it out there anyway. Reason's editors tolerate both rather and WI to the detriment of the entire board. What would occur if we all behaved like those two? It would destroy the board. Even so, how could the editors possibly object to us doing that very thing if we were to do so? They tolerate it from those two clowns. Is a suicidal version of libertarianism even worth saving?
I get why newcomers feel the need to respond to the trolls. I can't understand why regulars keep feeding it though. She enjoys provoking the reactions. As long as she gets that feedback, she'll keep up the repetitive, content-free trolling. Seriously, stop feeding the troll.
Humans evolved to be egalitarian.
Egalitarianism is our singlemost unique survival trait.
It appears libertarians have a problem with the results of evolution, not me.
Wayne State University, the home of the "get the h*** out of Palestine," and go back to "Poland, Germany, and America and everywhere else." award.
Oh please, teach us Master!
*barf*
Funny Stuff talking about Wayne State. you'd be better off referencing WI Madison or Cal Berkeley than a poopy school in a poopy union laden town.
P.S. I'm talking about the town Chrysler commercials call "Paris of the Midwest" Detroit.
Never has been nor will be Paris, unless you count the Marxism.
At least Paris has nuclear.
The Pose-Gazette story is worse to me. Charging a woman suffering a seizure of taking cocaine when it was shown she wasn't taking it. Damn.
Wasn't there an incident recently where the cops tazered an unconscious guy sitting on his couch who had just called 911 because he was going into a diabetic coma?
It's all a blur. It rings a bell but it could be false class consciousness or some jazz.
It's all a blur.
It wouldn't be a blur if you'd stop freebasing all this New Professionalism.
Couldn't find that one, but here's something just as egregious. Sir, stop resisting!
Oh hey, it turns out I bookmarked the shooting of (innocent) Ian Birk. I DO remember this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
This is the one I was thinking of. Not a diabetic coma, but a head injury.
Wouldn't surprise me. Police killed a kid, a graduate coming back to my alma matter Miami University 2 or 3 years ago with a taser for disorderly drunk behavior.
Nothing like state sanctioned manslaughter.
Question...which is worse, state sanctioned manslaughter w/out due process
Or
State sanctioned murder with due process, I.E. after a trial, death row, etc...?
The victims need to stop letting the police and city buy them off. Make every one of these dipshits who cuff and stuff an epileptic or taze a 9 year old because they felt "unsafe" defend their actions in open court. Don't let them claim they settled even though they were in the right. If I serve on a jury there cannot be enough zeroes in the payoff.
Make officer friendly explain why the unconscious man scared him so much. Cowards.
...do you loathe the POLIS (city-State) and its POLITics?
City life (civilization, or the city-State) is the core problem, as the Master of Monticello stated so poignantly, as follows:
"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe." -Thomas Jefferson
Cities do not work because of the human evolutionary neurobiological limit known as Dunbar's Number.
I loathe the lack of convenient places to take a shit.
Spacedock my rancid gaping vagina baby-it's got unlimited capacity!
you bore me epi
why?
The Coolest 8 Year Old In The World Talks About O'Reilly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8x14cLGh5o
...in the shitty.
Welcome to Shitty Wok, can I take your ordor?
I'm going to pretend that "ordor" was my attempt at a Chinese accent.
If they aren't "bought off" they'll go through years of legal horseshit and likely get nothing. That's assuming they can last long enough to make it to the end.
It's only slightly worse than one person trying to sue a multinational corporation.
Problem is loather, courts often uphold dipshit laws that legislators create that bars criminal and sometimes civil actions against cops and other LE.
It is so corrupt you can't do anything to protect yourself, your liberties, or your principals.
You meat bags should do what I always do when encountering Caribinieri: propulsive excrement. Do you guys not use butt discharge for locomotion? LOL
Jess
http://www.anymouse.com
I suppose when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and when you have a pair of handcuffs and the authorization to use force...
and yet, when it actually comes to facts, cops use force in a tiny percentage of calls they respond to.
can calls that start out as medical calls be dangerous? sure. heck, on many of these calls, the AID crews will stage and won't even go in (respond to the actual residence) without police backup.
that says nothing about whether this incident was justified or not. the article quotes what newman SAYS iow his claims in the lawsuit. those, of course are going to be self-serving. and one side of the story. they may be the truth, they may not be. they may be a little exaggerated or a lot exaggerated, they may leave out important facts that justified the level of force or they may not
nobody knows at this point, who is posting here.
coming from a lifeguard/firefighter background, i would certainly be disturbed if cops overreacted and treated what should have been treated as a pure medical call, with excessive force. but it doesn't follow that just because the nature of the call is a request for medical help, that there were or weren't factors present justifying the use of force.
King himself on the 911 call says (among other things) "he's combative"
what we have here is one side of the story, and of course a plaintiff's lawyer is going to claim stuff that paints his client as the victim. that's kind of the point of an adversarial system. plaintiff lawyer files the suit, claims are made, people are deposed, evidence is looked at, people are questioned by representatives of both sides, and hopefully a jury can come to a conclusion about what most likely happened.
but as somebody who has been involved in civil lawsuits, i can state unequivocally that just because plaintiff;s lawyer claims X does not make it so.
i remain... agnostic.
By "combative," she probably meant that Burnell was being snippy with her. Of course "combative" means something else to first responders...so perhaps the origin of this incident lies with that.
it means something different to WOW players as well, i guess
You're right, agnosticism is wise, given how little we know.
I'm just wondering - assuming things went down exactly as the plaintiffs describe - what was going through the cops' heads? I doubt it was, "I've always wanted to handcuff a man facedown in bed." It seems more likely they were intent on getting the situation Under Control, and they went about it with the tools they had.
I've only ever seen seizures on House. Are they scary and violent-looking? Do people other than the victim commonly get injured?
I don't know much about seizures either, but I think medical professionals would do a better job of not being injured by an epileptic than most cops would. So: what Groovus said.
i've seen plenty o seizures - both petit mal and grand mal. it's really not rocket science. you do your best to remove sharp/hard stuff in the proximity of the person who is seizing, and try to prevent him from hurting himself. GENERALLY SPEAKING, you don't try to restrain the person seizing, assuming it's just a med call and you know it's a seizure and not some sort of pre-attack indicator or something
granted, talk to any paramedic, EMT etc. it is not uncommon for them to get slugged by somebody (often inadvertently by the slugger) who is seizing or convulsing). comes with the territory.
otoh, paramedics do NOT take kindly to abusive and assaultive patients. you think a taser is a torture device? i'd rather be tased than have a pissed off paramedic with a needle standing over me after i assaulted him.
any ER nurse or paramedic is going to deal with a fair # of violent (whether intentionally or not) individuals.
merely handcuffing somebody, is not "brutality" if it's warranted, whether on a medical call or not.
like i said in a thread recently, my partner was punched in the head a few weeks ago on a 'medical call' when a guy were walking out to the ambulance with slugged him.
i've also seen heroin addicts get hella violent after being given narcan because it's essentially giving them instant withdrawal symptoms. they go from high as fuck to withdrawal in a matter of seconds.
like i said, the cops may have overreacted or not. i frankly have no fucking idea. i know their lawyer is CLAIMING they did.
Fair enough.
I've only ever seen seizures on House. Are they scary and violent-looking?
I have had them but not seen them, so I have studied it. Yes, a full grand mal seizure is scary looking but I wouldn't say violent.
Do people other than the victim commonly get injured?
It would be unlikely. A complex generalized seizure results in falling down and thrashing, no purposeful behavior.
There are partial seizures that result in repetitive behaviors like repetitive, automatic movements, such as lip smacking and rubbing the hands together, maybe even something like constantly unbuttoning and then rebutting your shirt, but they do not respond when spoken to. I wouldn't think it would be likely be violent but in the rare case it could be but it would be undirected and not purposeful.
and they charged her with aggravated assault -- later dismissed -- for her mid-seizure biting of an EMT's finger
That is absurd because they are under no conscious control over their actions whatsoever.
""i remain... agnostic.""
Sure, but how does a seizure turn into an arrestable offense?
who the fuck knows. this is one of the endless problems with these types of threads. we know so little about the details, so the bigots naturally fill in the vacuum with "well, the cops did something wrong".
i have no fucking idea. i just know some lawyer is making some claims and all we know is a tiny piece of the puzzle.
i can just say that any # of simple AID calls can and do turn into criminal matters. like the guy who punched my partner in the head.
granted, we didn't even charge him but i digress
"can calls that start out as medical calls be dangerous? sure. heck, on many of these calls, the AID crews will stage and won't even go in (respond to the actual residence) without police backup."
Why the emphasis on "AID crews"? It's perfectly obvious why EMTs might wait for police assistance. Ambulance crews don't carry guns or Tasers, aren't given body armor, aren't authorized to use deadly force, and must remain uninjured to assist the patient who needs their help.
The police here have none of these excuses. The only concern they seem to have is their own personal safety. Why are these police officers so morbidly afraid of everything? And if they can't be expected to do their jobs without hurting innocent people, why aren't they asked to find another line of work?
Except you make all sorts of bullshit statements without substantiation. And btw, some aid crews ARE issued ballistic vests btw. Cops have multiple concerns at any aid call - safety of the aid crew, safety of themselves, safety of the patient, etc. but just because it's a request for medical assistance does not mean it can't turn criminal and/or violent. AID calls don't have that magical property. My partner was punched on one a few weeks ago, etc. and for the record, ask any firefighter (I used to be one) judges hand out MUCH STIFFER sentences for assault on aid crews than on cops. We are, to some extent, expected to deal with it more than those poor, cute innocent firefighters. In my jurisdiction, even though all assaults on officers are a felony,they won't charge felony unless there are relatively serious injuries - black eye, etc. they will charge pretty much any assault on an aid crew as felony. Heck, we didnn't even refer charges for the guy who punched my partner. It was a. Weak ass punch, he has a hard head, and it wssn't worth the paperwork for a kid who was about toget recommitted to a mental hospital. Last time he was there he served a couple of months.
Seems to me the problem in this case is the Police arrived first and "diagnosed" the patient in that unique "police way".
WhoaHoHo, boy dies* from smoking plastic: governor bans fake reefer.
Welcome to America, bitches.
*Note blatantly dishonest headline.
Why?
The Coolest 8 Year Old In The World Talks About O'Reilly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8x14cLGh5o
Ashlyn,
Answers to the questions on seizures - no and no. And post seizure the victim is usually too drained to do anything... except get his wrist broken by the brave boys in blue.
Yes, it begins with feeling weird, dizzy etc. then waking up on the floor out of breath and tired and sore. Incidentally restraining them could result in them breaking bones I would think.
Agnostic or apologist?
ATF or ATF?
Yes, yes; cops have a maximum IQ and most don't come near it.
More importantly, did anyone else watch game 6? That was crazy.
the only study i have ever read on it (FBI Law Enforcement Journal) claimed that cops IQ averaged about 110
i am not sure how they defined LEO for the purpose of their stats (did they include feds, probation/parole officers, etc.) but that would not surprise me
regardless of iq, smart people can do stupid or abusive shit all the fucking time.
See, this does nothing for me other than to point out that the people in this world who are given the authority to point a gun at me and tell me what their interpretation of the law says I'm allowed to do have, on average, an IQ only 10 points higher than that of the general population. These folks must really need that unquestionable authority--to save them from smart peolle with reasonable arguments.
See, this does nothing for me other than to point out that the people in this world who are given the authority to point a gun at me and tell me what their interpretation of the law says I'm allowed to do have, on average, an IQ only 10 points higher than that of the general population. These folks must really need that unquestionable authority--to save them from smart peolle with reasonable arguments.
I think you missed the point of my post. Somehow I knew your post would be here by the time I got up this morning.
Smart people don't make good cops because they are apt to question the bullshit rules they are hired to enforce.
Dumb people make great hired muscle because they don't give a shit what the rules are as long as they get to bust some heads while enforcing them.
Cue dunphy making a comment of how I am mad about being convicted of DUI after going through due process.
When he knows I'm not mad at the conviction, rather I consider the cop to be a sack of shit for not mentioning that the kid who hit me ran a red light, resulting in my having to fix his car.
But I would expect nothing less since cops are professional liars.
They lie on police reports, they lie in court, they lie about the law when they deal with the general public, lying is what they do.
They represent the government, which means they engage in force and fraud.
The only difference between a cop and a common thug is the badge.
WE NEED GOVERNMENT to protect our [insert] rights!
Are you one of those damn anarchist like White Indian, sarcasmic?
If government were properly limited, then it would have no need to bully and lie to the citizens.
As it is it is not properly limited, and as a result I despise the people whose voluntarily take on the job of bullying and lying to the citizen.
You just can't get that sand out of your vagina. I agree with nick gillespie. Most cops do a good job. Contrary to your butthurt bias, most are good people doing a difficult job reasonably well. Sure, some are thugs and assholes.
"He was handcuffed and taken into custody, released and taken for medical treatment."
Taken into custody for what? Unlawful seizure?