Reason Remembers 9/11

[9/11, The World Trade Center, & the Next New York Skyline, produced by Nick Gillespie and Meredith Bragg]

Throughout the past week, we've posted new and archival material related to the 9/11 attacks. For a complete listing, go here.

Among our coverage:

Reason.tv: 9/11, The World Trade Center, & New York's Next Skyline, Nick Gillespie & Meredith Bragg, September 9, 2011

Remembering 9/11: The Eternal Fallout Shelter, How Art Failed Us, & The Day Everything Continued to Change, Nick Gillespie, September 9, 2011

Reason Writers on Stossel: Matt Welch Discusses Post-9/11 Policies With Ann Coulter, September 9, 2011

Remembering 9/11: The Politics of Dead Children, The Antiwar Right, Killing Bin Laden, Damon W. Root, September 9, 2011

"In fact, on Dec. 7, 1951, Pearl Harbor wasn't remembered", Matt Welch, September 9, 2011

Watch Matt Welch and Ann Coulter Talk About Post-9/11 Policies on Stossel Tonight at 10 PM ET, Matt Welch, September 8, 2011

Tapping Black Power Against the 9-11 Leviathan, Shikha Dalmia, September 8, 2011

Remembering 9/11: Notes from the First Anniversary, Closing the Books on Open Government, What Price Safety?, Nick Gillespie, September 8, 2011

Reason Writers Around Town: Shikha Dalmia on Whether 9-11 Claimed American Exceptionalism, September 8, 2011

Ten Years After, John Stossel, September 8, 2011

Remembering 9/11: Memorializing Ground Zero, Bert and Osama, Bruce Springsteen Falls Flat, Damon W. Root, September 8, 2011

Remembering 9/11: Thank Allah for Vulgar Culture!, Nick Gillespie, September 7, 2011

Remembering 9/11: The End of Civil Liberties, the Orientalist Critique, & Irony; Plus, How Reason Created the "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh, Nick Gillespie, September 7, 2011

Remembering 9/11: Unity Gives Way to Politics, Flying After the Attacks, Robert Higgs Predicts the Growth of Government,Damon W. Root, September 7, 2011

How Scared of Terrorism Should You Be?, Ronald Bailey, September 6, 2011

Remembering 9/11: Q&A with the World Trade Center's Biographer, the Closing of the U.S.-Canada Border, Hello to the New Cold War,, Nick Gillespie, September 6, 2011

An Economic Lesson from 9/11, Ira Stoll, September 6, 2011

Remembering 9/11: What We Wrote When the Attacks Happened, Nick Gillespie, September 6, 2011

Reason magazine dedicated three issues to the 9/11 attacks. Click on the cover images above to access their full tables of contents.

Comments

[Xeones]

Yo, fuck terrorists.

[Aqua Buddha]

But more importantly, don't you have a book to plug?

[AA]

Do you know who else has something to plug?

[sloopyinca]

That young fella by the dyke?

[cynic]

Happy 9/11 day everyone! Do they sell cards at hallmark for this national holiday?

[Bucky]

last night on an all news radio station in the Phila. area a female reporter told all who were listening that when she thinks of 9/11 what concerns her is all the soldiers that have died as a result of the wars that followed.

what can you expect from a talking head? not honor for the first responders, not a moment of silence for those that died in the towers, no respect for the passengers and crew of fight 93...
no, she channels Cindy Sheehan

[John]

Yeah. Lets have a national argument over the war. That is a great fucking plan. And while we are at it, lets have everyone score cheap political points for whatever their political hobby horse is. You gotta love it.

[American liberals]

We were totally against war, until, like, we were totally for it on January 20, 2009.

[republicans SUCK]

Cindy Who?

[Mike Laursen]

Reasonable concern, directly related to that day. What's the problem?

[Timon19]

Didn't you hear? We must first bow at the Altar of September 11 before actually tackling tough issues.

[Realist]

Exactly! This is such bullshit. People die and are killed every god damn day....get over it.
This country has squandered at least 1 billion dollars per person killed on 9/11. The terrorists have to be laughing. We are kicking our own ass by running ourselves into bankruptcy.
"Ground Zero" my ass....only one country has a Ground Zero and that is Japan!

[AA]

I don't see what the problem is. More soldiers have died as a result - 3,000 to 5,000+, right? - and have been crippled or otherwise had their lives ruined, and its still going on. The towers fell 10 years ago, but the wars are still waging. I think its a perfectly acceptable conversation to have today.

[Realist]

Yes indeed!!!

[BG]

The towers fell 10 years ago, but the wars are still waging. I think its a perfectly acceptable conversation to have today.

Well, at the time of this post it is technically 9/12, but it is still an appropriate conversation. What should the US, and its allies, do now on that point?

The Iraq war (which I'd argue should not have been fought in the first place) is effectively over. Since the remaining "non-combat" troops are no longer necessary to keep the elected government in power or maintain security, I'm in favor withdrawing them now. However, if they remain there training Iraqi security forces until the end of the year (as seems likely), it is not that big of a deal.

By contrast, the Afghanistan War (or more accurately the Afghan/Pakistan War, as fighting occurs on both sides of the border) is still going full blast. It is not clear that the US-led coalition can achieve victory anytime soon, or how it would do so.

So how should the US and its allies proceed? Should they seek a peace agreement with the Taliban (and Taliban-allied warlords)? And on what terms should the US be willing to make peace?

If not a peace agreement, what other options are there?

Keep fighting an open-ended war?

Withdraw from Afghanistan and let the chips fall where they may?

Withdraw ground troops but aid the Karzai-led government in other ways (air support, weapons, etc.)?

Something else (not sure what)?

My view is that they should offer to make peace with the Taliban, on condition that they cease all support for terrorism, stop fighting to overthrow the Afghan government, accept the Afghan constitution, and refrain from perpetrating reprisals against Afghans who opposed their theocratic rule and/or supported the coalition. (They can be offered a part in the government in some type of power-sharing agreement, but not the option of re-establishing the totalitarian theocracy they had before.) In fact, Obama has made such an offer, but he should make it in a more high-profile way and indicate that it is a standing offer on the table. Of course, he should also seek endorsement of this proposal by Pakistan, Karzai, various factions within Afghanistan, and others who have a stake in the conflict (with their peace conditions included, if within reason). There should be pressure coming from all sides to get the Taliban to accept these terms.

Make it clear that the US is willing to withdraw if these conditions are met, and thus the Taliban has no legitimate reason to keep fighting. If they refuse this offer and keep the war going, the world should be constantly reminded that the continuation of the war, and the resulting death and misery, is the Taliban's fault. The purpose of this is to create a public relations problem for the Taliban and reduce any constituency they might have.

The Taliban has said that they are only willing to negotiate after the US withdraws, but this is most likely a cynical ploy to get the US to leave so they can take Kabul and go back to the pre-2001 system. It should be pointed out as such. Alternatively, the US could agree to withdraw on condition that the Taliban observe a ceasefire afterwards and negotiate with Karzai and the Afghan Parliament in good faith. The US could stipulate that if the Taliban breaks this ceasefire and starts an advance towards Kabul, the US will go back in, or at least bomb advancing Taliban militants enough to reverse their gains.

If the Taliban accepts these terms, the US should withdraw in accordance with its obligations in the agreement, perhaps leaving behind civilian observers to monitor the situation and ensure the Taliban is not aiding terrorists in secret or otherwise violating its obligations.

[Amakudari]

It's about time people learned the truth about what happened on 9/11.

[PS]

I'm with Robin Hanson on this one.

[John]

Robin Hanson is an idiot. Just because only a small number of people in the grand scheme of things, died, doesn't mean it isn't significant. Very few black people ever actually died as a result of lynching in the South. But that doesn't make the crime of lynching any less shocking, horrible or less of a wound on society. By that idiot's logic, if the KKK started randomly killing forty or fifty black people in very high profile ways every year, it would not be worthy of any greater concern than any other fifty murders. Bullshit. It would be a huge concern. That is one of the reasons terrorism is called "asymmetric warfare". Its political and targeted nature has a greater affect on society than the pure numbers alone.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Yes, and the "purpose" of terrorism is to bring about a change in behavior based on the fear that's produced. So while I agree the 3000 that died are significant based on how they died and who killed them, hyping the event does play into the hands of the adversaries.

[Jerry]

Isn't Hanson's point more that we spend a significant cost in trying to revenge those 3000 deaths? And that that cost lead to suffering and death as well.

[PS]

I don't buy utilitarian argument he makes, and people being murdered is different than people dying because they chose to smoke or whatever. Still, the US didn't devote an entire week lamenting the victims of Pearl Harbor on the 10th anniversary. Time to move on already.

[PS]

Unless it is to remember that the terrorists won and the US is a bankrupt quasi-police state.

[Realist]

Excellent point and correct!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Pearl Harbor didn't have 24 hour news outlets that need to invent issues to fill airtime.

[PS]

Yeah that's true. Also, after WWII people just wanted to get on with their lives. I remember my grandma saying she didn't want to hear about the war ever again, thank you very much.

[jtuf]

PS, after WWII, Americans were busy building careers, buying homes, and making babies. Today, we don't have the drive to do that anymore.

[mad libertarian guy]

They were also busy building the warfare/welfare state.

[Jerry]

How many lives could have been saved if that $3 trillion was spent on private or public health care?

[sevo]

"How many lives could have been saved if that $3 trillion was spent on private or public health care?"

How may lives could have been saved if that money were left in peoples' pockets to become prosperous?

[Realist]

Yes!!! ^^^

[Amakudari]

Or really, if the money had been spent on hookers and blow. We spent those trillions blowing up people, rebuilding foreign countries and caring for young men crippled for life, so just about any use after toppling the Taliban was far more productive.

[jacob the barbarian]

the people cannot be trusted to spend the money wisely. this is why we have their betters elected to office. then the people can be truly cared for, with free healthcare, retirement, public transportation and schools. We should confiscate all private vehicles and close all private schools.

[jtuf]

There is a qualitative difference between preventing murder and preventing disease. If you want to take a utilitarian approach, then use replacement cost as the maximum we should spend to preserve life. It costs about $200,000 to raise an American child. By utilitarian logic, we should repeal most environmental regulations and just have more kids that live shorter lives.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

You're right -- they spent two years cratering the Japanese home islands, sent millions of men into a meat grinder, and destroyed Japan such that they went from belligerent to unilaterally capitulating in the space of four years.

I'm pretty sure that if we had so utterly dominated Al-Qaeda (not that it was really possible, but *if*), we would be breezing past 9/11 by this point, too.

[Amakudari]

I don't how far his argument goes, but fortunately we don't have to compare 9/11 to car accidents or whatever, as our response has claimed the lives of some ~150,000+ (all-in and conservative for Iraq and Afghanistan) and cost $3 trillion. And for all of it, Afghanistan and Iraq are still hellholes and we're still there blowing money and lives trying to install liberal democracies in the midst of major domestic problems. 9/11 was certainly a tragedy, but there's a deeper one going on right now.

[Amakudari]

*I don't agree with how far he takes his argument, but...

[Realist]

And you want this country to keep paying for ever, in loss of military lives, freedom and money. You're the fucking idiot!

[jtuf]

+2 John

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Seconded.

[John]

I don't want to remember 9-11. I don't want to reflect. If there are any lessons to be learned they have long since been learned and probably forgotten. How about we let the two cities affected each of a single tasteful memorial service and call it a day? No thumb sucking, no chin scratching, no farrowed brows, no faux searches for meaning, no posing, no nothing.

[Realist]

That is sure a different attitude than posted above!

[John]

No it is not. You are just too stupid to understand the distinction. Just 9-11 was a big deal and a much bigger deal than if 2800 people had died in unconnected tragedies, doesn't mean I think it is appropriate to spend days wallowing in sorrow and exploiting the issue.

[Realist]

This country is wallowing in self pity and spending it's self into bankruptcy. You are the stupid one....9/11 was minor as tragedies go....take Japan, just this year for example.

[Dekedin]

Who did 9/11? Majestic 12! FEMA! The UN!

Sorry, I just got done playing the new Deus Ex.

[John]

Amazing how the Truthers stopped getting any kind of coverage whatsoever once Bush was out of office. I assume they are still out there. But you never hear about them anymore.

[sage]

Drudge still links to inforwars and prisonplanet. Like the antiwar movement, they are still out there but there's a lot less tinfoil hats in their numbers.

[Name Nomad]

I saw a guy walking around on the street with a sign that said something like "9/11 was an inside job" last year. I was tempted to walk up to him and say something like "Oh! Your sign has completely changed my mind! Thank you, good sir, for your contribution to my understanding of the truth." Needless to say, I didn't because he probably wouldn't understand sarcasm.

[Shake]

You hear about them less now, but they're still out there - and most of them are probably libertarians, too. Both Ron and Rand Paul still appear as guests on the loathesome Alex Jones radio program. Also, this.

[Amakudari]

Aside from the fact that Trutherism is rampant among Democrats, of course. And I'm linking to Weigel trying to dismiss the prevalence of conspiracy theories among Dems and finding himself unable to do so.

[sloopyinca]

Steelers vs Ravens in 90 minutes.
Steelers vs Ravens in 90 minutes.
Steelers vs Ravens in 90 minutes.

Hooray for 9/11! The best sports day of the year so far.

[I ? Replays!]

13 minutes of action. What's not to love?

[Au H20]

Derrick Ward in for Arian Foster against a terrible Indy Run defense.

And yes, I did wait till started game time just so Peanut couldn't put in Ben Tate against him.

[sloopyinca]

The battle of the monocles!!!

Where's Tulpa, btw? He's about to get his ass kicked...9/11-style!

[Tulpa]

Heh, turned out like Flight 93, you terroristic turkey.

Unfortunately, three of my starters are now injured.

[Amakudari]

I'll tell you what. I'm really glad I have the Pittsburgh D and didn't start Flacco.

[Amakudari]

Also Rashard Mendenhall is a Troofer.

[Not an Economist]

Biggest comment on the Steelers.

The Bengals played better than the Steelers... the Bengals.

[Amakudari]

I will lose this week, but at least I'm saving some face thanks to STEVE SMITH.

I think the Steelers' issue is that they've had to stop juicing and raping.

[Ted S.]

Wouldn't the stop raping be Steve Smith's issue?

[STEVE SMITH]

STEVE SMITH LEARN FROM BIG BEN MISTAKE, CALL VICTIM FOLLOWING MORNING. VICTIM FEEL APPRECIATED, BLAME SELF IF LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP NO WORK. UNLIMITED MINUTES PLAN SMALL PRICE TO PAY.

[Tulpa]

My bench was full of world-beaters this week: Cam, Sproles, Gaffney, etc. Luckily I swapped Shiancoe and Evan Moore.

[Max]

Way too many words per insightful observation.

[Joe.... Not the famous one]

Bing wins once again in the better remeberance.

Hey google, they are wearing blue ribbons. Take a break from your stupid logos.

[Google]

We'll remeberance that, thanks.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Contrarian alert: I disagree with everyone here. I have no problem with remembering the day, arbitrary as anniversary dates ultimately are. It was a world-altering event. We can talk about it as the shared experience that it was, an experience owned by no party or ideology, and as separate from all that came after it.

Each year, on the anniversary of my mom's death, my sister puts a memorial in our local paper. (She didn't die on 9/11, relax.) While a part of me doesn't understand why people do that, I admit another part I think is glad my sister does. And whether we want to admit it or not, we all shared in what happened to some degree on the 11th. We can share in the memorial, as well, in earnest reflection or with wry humor, and either way do so without losing libertarian cred.

[Almanian]

I think the personal remembrances are cool, and understand that. What I don't stomach is the 24/7, media-driven (and urged on by the gov't types who never miss an opportunity to preen for the masses) puke-fest of melodramatic barf-fests and replaying of EVERY minute of coverage and "I remember where I was" bullshit.

Yep, it was a big deal. Yep, I remember EXACTLY where I was when it happened, and how I found out, and the rage I experienced in the days that followed, and the desire to drive straight to NYC to try to help (good thing they told us to, "please, stay the fuck away").

But it's over - it's a memory - and not one I prefer to bring up over, and over, and over, and over and make into something to be put on a shelf and pondered and looked at and analyzed to a second death and to justify the continued taking of liberty at the hands of the government.

But if others want to do that, fine - I'm avoiding ALL of it.

[sloopyinca]

And I don't like watching the planes fly into the WTC and the buildings collapse over and over again. To be completely honest, it's burned into my memory forever from when I saw it as it happened...and it's painful to see.

Anybody who experienced that day will always remember it in their own way. Because their experience was personal, they should be allowed to do that. Forcing people to relive the moment ad nauseum is a sadistic quest for ratings by the networks and should be treated as such. I for one will watch no coverage of the event.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, forcing me to relive that night in the bathroom of that Georgia nightclub where Ben Rapelisberger had sex with an underage adult co-ed (and failed to call her the next day) by having him fail to beat the Packers is something that will not stand. (But he can redeem himself this season, STARTING NOW.)

[sloopyinca]

Not exactly the start I was hoping for. I had flipped over to the RWC for a few minutes and the Steelers are down 7-0. WTF?

[Almanian]

I'm pretty sure Warty hates you if you're a Yinzer Stillers fan.

Of course, as a Lions fan, I have everything to be ashamed of. Happy fuhbah season, everyone!

[Warty]

Oh, I do.

Also, I didn't watch the Browns and I was much richer for it. Fuck football.

[Timon19]

Indeed.

[Ted S.]

Yep, it was a big deal. Yep, I remember EXACTLY where I was when it happened, and how I found out, and the rage I experienced in the days that followed, and the desire to drive straight to NYC to try to help (good thing they told us to, "please, stay the fuck away").

And then there's the rage I felt when I wanted to get back to some semblance of normality and the assholes in New York City didn't want me to. As I mentioned in another thread, the NCAA let individual conference decide whether to play college football games the first Saturday after September 11. The SEC decided to go ahead when all the other conferences said they wouldn't, and the talking heads on sports-talk in New York basically took the attitude, "How could they?" Sadly, the SEC backed down.

I want to remember the event in my own way, but on this 10th anniversary, there are a lot of people who seemingly don't want me to. And the idea that showing a bigger flag is evidence that you have a greater love of what this country stands for is thoroughly repellent.

[Narcissist]

I have no comment, but I can't help myself.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I'm maxed on on 9-11 as well.

The Captains of Star Trek is on the BIO Channel...

[Mike D]

I'm with Chomsky.

[A Serious Man]

Team Hitch.
http://www.slate.com/id/2303013

[Shake]

Hear hear!
Hitchens is probably the only socialist I've ever agreed with about anything.

[Cree Warrior]

I'm seeing the term "never forget" used all over today. Frustrating. Us Indian people are always told to forget & move on. I never will.

[P Brooks]

But what would the people who have made a career out of being nineonettyone victims do if they couldn't force us to watch them wallow in their ostentatious grief?

And what about the "security consultants"? What would they do without their gigs on CNN and MSNBC?

[PantsFan]

Marv Albert calling football is wrong. CBS, bring back Gus Johnson!

[sloopyinca]

Marv needs to call DWTS this year. He could help Chaz Bono if he struggles with any sort of discrimination.

[Almanian Albert]

YES!

[Ted S.]

It's funny how people get all up in arms about criminal athletes getting a second chance, but nobody seems to have that problem with criminal Marv Albert.

[A Serious Man]

Wow, even by Herman Cain standards this is tasteless and oblivious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ-WTFA2vXY

[sloopyinca]

I just flipped over to the Rugby World Cup on NBC for a few minutes. I urge everybody to flip over there long enough to take a look at the left sleeve of the Irish jerseys.

Even resorting to an international event that is supposed to be devoid of politics, one cannot escape this fucking shit.

[Almanian]

When rugby has become pussified NINEELEVENTYOMGWEWONTNEVEREVERLETYOUFORGGGGEETTTT!!, the turrists have won.

[The British Empire]

We think it's cute that the Americans are trying to play rugby.
Will you be asking for an invitation to Ashes next? *snicker*

[Ray]

Caught he'll just now while eating lunch with my family, after I asked what we had accomplished since 9/11. A massive increase in government, fewer checks on authority, more hassles from the security apparatus, tens of thousands of sand people dead, and more Americans dead from the resulting wars than those who perished on 9/11. What is there to be proud of on this day?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Who, exactly, is "proud" of 9/11?

[sloopyinca]

The FDNY and NYPD union heads are, that's for sure.

[Libertarian2]

Do other countries use anniversaries to mark their failures, like the US? Seems like they usually celebrate victories instead.

[PantsFan]

The French have Bastille Day.

[could be wrong]

Didn't the US "celebrate" Pearl Harbor for a decade or two post-WW2?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Hungarian War of Independence.

Cinco de Mayo.

Poland's Constitution Day.

There are a handful.

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Cinco de Mayo is not commonly celebrated in Mexico.

... Hobbit

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Fair enough.

[jtuf]

Israel has a day to remember the Holocaust, and a day to remember fallen soldiers and terror victims, a day to remember the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans, and a day to remember the expulsion of the Jews by the Romans. The USA has Memorial Day. Many Liberals mark Columbus Day and/or Thanksgiving as a day of morning. Come to think of it, on may colleges, every day is a day to morn something in American history.

[Barry, Barry, Barry.....]

Obama gives 911 memorial comments behind bulletproof glass. WE WON!

[jtuf]

Gillespie, you put it well. We should pause briefly to pay our respects and then move on.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Krugster agrees with you anti-American bastards. So fine. You all win. No more watching WTC disaster porn for me. BUT YOU WON'T GET ME TO BURN THE FLAG SO DON'T EVEN TRY.

[Paul, Paul, Paul....]

In his heart, Krugnuts feels it was a stimulus for the economy....

[F Hart]

Sure. Just look at all of those broken windows. Fuck, that's better than alien space invaders.

[Mike M.]

The slimy, cowardly, yellow-bellied, lily-livered little vermin didn't even have the balls to let people post any response comments to his diatribe, in spite of the fact that he already screens all of his comments and discards most of the ones that are critical of him to begin with. What a complete scumbag this piece of work is.

[A Serious Man]

Why was that even neccessary?

[P Brooks]

Paranoid hysteria makes us stronger.

In a third incident, a carry-on bag at Kansas City International Airport caused a security guard at a checkpoint to be concerned, said airport spokesman Joe McBride.

A man was uncooperative when asked if if the bag could be search and was subsequently detained, McBride said.

Terminal B was closed and evacuated abut 9:30 a.m., and a bomb squad was brought in. The squad used water hoses to open and inspect all of the man's bags, including those that were checked, McBride said. The terminal reopened by 2 p.m.

Authorities were questioning the man, McBride said.

STOP RESISTING

[Tulpa]

I notice you left out what was found in the bags.

[RTFA]

Last line in the article: "The FBI's Bridget Patton said agents went to the scene. No explosives were found in the luggage, she said."

[Tulpa]

That's what was not found, not what was found.

[A Serious Man]

Mari-ja-wana, mmmkay?

[Tulpa]

To me, the other two incidents are even more egregious. Multiple F-16s tracking a jumbo jets based on a passenger spending a long time in the bathroom? How many F-16s does it take to obliterate a 747?

I mean, did they think that these odd passengers had oxycetylene torches to cut through the cockpit door with? Talk about fighting the last battle.

[frosty joe]

They don't call it "explosive diarrhea" for nothing!

[Tulpa]

Maybe he spoke of his intention to "blow his wad" and this was misinterpreted.

btw, I was shocked to read that expression in an article in Forbes Magazine of all places. The writer had a foreign-sounding name and I wonder if she had just heard native speakers use the idiom and repeated it without digging into the etymology.

[Tulpa]

So, NBC's non-reality programming this season will include one show about being pregnant, another about caring for a newborn, and another centering around a woman complaining about men being irrational.

Why are they advertising this during a football game? I don't see guys sitting on their futons in Demarcus Ware jerseys saying, "Oh my God I MUST watch this Whitney show! It looks so cool!"

[Ted S.]

If Whitney were Whitney Houston acting like a psycho drug-addled bitch and uncensored, I might watch it.

[sevo]

"So, NBC's non-reality programming this season will include one show about being pregnant, another about caring for a newborn, and another centering around a woman complaining about men being irrational."

Hmm.
Sorta sounds like 'non-reality' is the new 'non-organic'.

[A Serious Man]

Reminds me of this one throwaway gag from Family Guy where the marquee outside NBC headquartes says, "NBC: We used to have Seinfeld, remember?"

That being said, Whitney Cummings can be funny when she's edgy, which pretty much disqualifies her from succeeding on network primetime television. And Will Arnett might be tolerable as a toned-down person rather that just another clone of GOB with weaker writing.

[Tulpa]

The commercials have her waving her pudendum in front of a webcam, so there may be hope.

Who am I kidding? Of course there's no hope. But I still like The Apprentice.

[GroundTruth]

Traveling in Europe these past two weeks before (and including) 9/11. Borders are wide open, there is no fingerprinting of arriving visitors, no jumpy people, not cops and thugs everywhere. 9/11 is a solely US obsession!

Time to move on folks.... dump the DHS, TSA, get the heck out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, tell the Israelis to figure it out themselves, and get back to doing what we do best, business and being free.

GET OVER IT!

[Tulpa]

I guess the headscarf ban, car fire riots, and minaret bans are just an illusion.

And of course, technically France and Romania are like Wyoming and Tennessee for customs and immigration purposes.

[GroundTruth]

Been to Europe recently? The headscarves are everywhere, with zero attempt to integrate into the local culture. This is NOT about 9/11, but about the extent to which the culture is open to/ desirous of change

[Tulpa]

What the hell? Just saw a clip of Biden's speech at the Pentagon on the news after the night game ended.

"The 9/11 generation ranks among the greatest our nation has ever produced. And it was born....it was born....it was born....right here on 9/11."

I don't get how a generation whose members are less than ten years old can be ranked among the greatest already.

[Master of Ceremonies]

Facts from 9/11

[dunphy]

one of the greatest events to commemorate and celebrate the FD and PD people is the World Police/Fire Olympics being held this year IN NYC right around the 10 yr anniversary.

cops and firefighters from all over the world are competing and present in NYC for it obviously.

buddy of mine did the ultimate. he and 4 other firefighters drove their motorcycles cross country for a week from SD to NY to arrive for the 10 yr anniversary.

there are many positive ways to celebrate the heroic firefighters and cops who ran into burning buildings.

[Master of Ceremonies]

who will win dog shooting?

[Tulpa]

Do you have any idea how much greenhouse gas is produced by a cross-country motorcycle trip?

[Tulpa]

3000 miles / 168 hours is less than 20 mph. Were they motorcycles or mopeds?

[Master of Ceremonies]

maybe they had to stop to perform some random no-knock raids on innocent civilians as part of the competition

[SWATters]

Fucking paperwork!!

[dunphy]

i wasn't aware firefighters did no-knock raids.

well, i guess when they break the door down when the building is on fire, they don't knock first...

[dunphy]

vegas baby. VEGAS!

[sports betting sites]

9/11 was become a memorable day for United States. I was getting ready for another day of work at the office, as usual I am watching News channel suddenly I saw a breaking news and I saw a live telecast a plane crashed into WORLD TRADE CENTER. Thousands of innocent people died in this incident. "May all of the tributes of 9/11 live in peace. "
GOD BLESS AMERICA

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