The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything: 20 to 30
The June issue of Psychopharmacology includes a report on the latest in a series of psilocybin studies by researchers at Johns Hopkins University, this one focusing on the optimal dosage for achieving "mystical-type experiences having persisting positive effects on attitudes, mood, and behavior." Each of the 18 subjects (only one of whom had used psychedelics before) underwent five eight-hour sessions, spaced one month apart, during which they received either a placebo or one of four psilocybin doses: 5, 10, 20, or 30 milligrams per 70 kilograms of body weight. Thirteen of the subjects (72 percent) had "mystical-type experiences" at the two highest doses. The subjects reported "sustained positive changes in attitudes, mood, and behavior, with the ascending dose sequence showing greater positive effects"—effects that were confirmed by "community observers" (friends, relatives, and colleagues) more than a year later.
One subject reported: "I feel that I relate better in my marriage. There is more empathy—a greater understanding of people and understanding their difficulties and less judgment. Less judging of myself, too." Another said: "I have better interaction with close friends and family and with acquaintances and strangers….My alcohol use has diminished dramatically." Fourteen months after the experiment, 94 percent of the subjects called their psilocybin session one of five most meaningful experiences they'd ever had.
The lead researcher, behavioral biologist Roland Griffiths, is interested in exploring the use of psilocybin to relieve anxiety in terminal cancer patients. Other possible applications include addiction, depression, and post-traumatic stress. The psychiatrist Jerome Jaffe, who was Richard Nixon's drug czar, suggests broader uses:
The Hopkins psilocybin studies clearly demonstrate that this route to the mystical is not to be walked alone. But they have also demonstrated significant and lasting benefits. That raises two questions: could psilocybin-occasioned experiences prove therapeutically useful, for example in dealing with the psychological distress experienced by some terminal patients?
And should properly-informed citizens, not in distress, be allowed to receive psilocybin for its possible spiritual benefits, as we now allow them to pursue other possibly risky activities such as cosmetic surgery and mountain-climbing?
Time's Maia Szalavitz has more. Previous Reason coverage of psilocybin research here. My 2007 Reason feature story on religious use of psychedelics here.
[Thanks to Michael Sohm for the tip.]
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
God, I haven't done shrooms since the 80's. You're making me hungry.
Status = "I'm Shroomin'"
I haven't had them in 5 years; I wonder if I'd be able to handle it. I've had some awesome, awesome experiences on shrooms, but I've had two terrible experiences also. I've never had a bad acid trip, but I've had bad shroom trips (which seems to put me in the minority).
Eh. They are very context dependent. I notice that all of these were taken with someone who wasn't tripping. That can be helpful.
just tell me its OK if I leave the room.
Interesting article. Thanks, reason.
One needs to understand the metric system to convert the dose measurements to pounds, I suppose. Otherwise, you're toast, big dog.
The ideal setting for a first time psilocybin experience is a night scuba dive for lobsters off the Channel Islands in the Pacific Ocean. Very relaxing and peaceful and horrifying. It's a great way to come to terms with repressed memories and stuff.
Um, or not.
Maybe a night scuba dive in a backyard pool. Be careful!
I think it helps to remind yourself that it's just a drug and pretty soon it will all be over and when it is you'll wish it wasn't. Don't over-spiritualize it either. Have some beer and pot handy to mellow out with. Above all else, start with small doses and never take more if you're not feeling it for at least 2 hours.
Bill Hicks was right. I'm glad I spent my HS years listening to his subversive rants.
Bill hicks was always right. Mmm kay!
"Women Flock to Take Horse-Semen Shots"--headline, Dominion Post (Wellington, New Zealand), June 22:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominio.....emen-shots
Explain this?!!?
I wish I'd never heard of it.
However for restauranters, the delicacy does not come cheap, at a cost of $300 for 20 vials of semen.
Doubtless the price reflects the considerable cost of workers comp claims related to wrist and elbow injuries incurred during production.
Wonder if PETA will protest this. If they did, those horses would go all Mr. Ed on them.
Why
http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/20.....h-a-smile/
This makes me want to plan a trip to New Zealand.
Oh, and not for the horse semen shots, but for the women who are buying them. 😉
You'll get your horse semen shots the traditional way?
"...as we now allow them to pursue other possibly risky activities such as cosmetic surgery and mountain-climbing?"
I'm glad we have been given permission to mountain bike. Of course some people choose risky paths and ride without helmets and cause unacceptable affects on health insurance...
I detest that man's thought pattern.
legal weed + legal shrooms = world peace
Plus weed can 're-light' the shrooms as the trip fades, if you want to stay longer.
And give you the incentive to catch up on the food and water you didn't eat and drink while you were listening to the neighbor's dog expound on the meaning of first principles.
Not in a bazillion years if Congress, the nannies and the Socons have their way.
What about poorly-informed citizens in distress? What kind of libertarian magazine is this anyways?
Who has access to pure psylocybin? C'mon, reason, tell us what this equals in dried shroom weight. Do you have to eat an 8th of the stuff to acieve these doses, or what?
I was coming back to this thread to ask the same exact thing. Half an eighth seems to work enough of the time. A whole eighth definitely works. The question is, how can you tell?
Yes, I know I can eat a half and then another half if it doesn't kick in strong enough, but I'd love to know if there were some better guidelines.
I took 5 grams once. It was...intense.
Make tea, you can cope an excellent three hour long trip on a gram ground into a tea. Made the Dark Knight one of the most amazing movies I had ever seen.
Would be nice if they added a street/lab conversion chart.
Anything less than an 1/8th is a waste. Go on a trip or don't , otherwise you just get an upset stomach with little benefit.
Well, the largest dose I ever had was a half-8th, and all I got was breathing walls and subtle swirling in visual patterns. For the price ($25) and taste (blech) he full 8th had better produce a markedly better trip!
A full 1/8th would diffently be a better experience. As long as you eat something with them, don't exercise, & stay out of extreme heat. Heat stroke seizures aren't fun, escpicially when you are tripping.
Solution to the taste is tea. I really think tea is the ideal form of it; shorter trip, but more intense, more immediate, and less dosage needed.
I had heard heat (from steeping) could destroy/degrade the psilocybin so I never tried it in tea. I'll have to rustle up some for the 4th of July and see how it works!
Yes. Cold water lemon tea, and drink the ground up shrooms in the tea too.
You can't judge dosage by weight. I've eaten a 1/4 oz dried and barely got off and then I've just gnawed on a single fresh stem and shifted dimensions.
IF you want weight dosage, get DMT. Psilocin, which is the real halucinogen in shrooms, not the prodrug psilicybin, is 4-ho-dmt. They are very similar, dmt and shrooms when taken orally with a harmala containing plant.
Depends on the strain, what they're grown on, and how they're stored. IIRC, psilocybin is readily oxidized, so unless they're kept in an oxygen-free environment you're not getting what you paid for. Just go pick em fresh from the fields like the good lord intended.
People buy mushrooms? Oh you mean Yankees!
Hey, yankees get free shrooms too - just not in the drier areas of the country.
"Can Anti-Depressants Cause Anti-Semitism?"--headline, Daily Telegraph website
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/n.....-semitism/
"Can Reading the Daily Telegraph Cause Anglophobia?"
I told the witch doctor I was I love with you!
Bum bum bum bum
Well duh. Why do you think shamans guided "spirit quests" in the first place.
Stay tuned next week when science rediscovers the benefits of ambulatory locomotion.
That was last week:
Walking Good for You
If the two highest doses tested produced the best results, we don't actually know the optimum dose. 40, 42, 50, or even higher might very well produce better results than 30.
It's nice to see shrooms getting some mainstream lovin - Andy 'Mad Dog' Sullivan has been singing praise of shrooms recently as well.
I've got a lot out of value from the few experiences I've had and would love to see it more mainstream and used in a more spiritual / therapeutic context than the usual rock fest experience most people first encounter them - set and setting set and setting
eh.. I actually think a music fest is a pretty damn good place to get started. Lots of folks who are happy, and they know what to do if you freak out.
Yes. Meditations on fungus can get really intense.
The State can't allow people to feel empathy towards others. We have to have the martial spirit to support bombing of foreigners and execution of wrong-thinkers.
preach on, man! truth to power! peace, love and vegetable rights!
I've never done psilocybin, but I did have the Timothy Leary "mystical-type experiences" on LSD.
Quite honestly, I'm not sure these effects sound desirable to me at all. Why would I want to increase my empathy in general? Judge less? This sounds like a great recipe for creating placid citizens unlikely to reject deeper intrusion by government into their lives. I once had the effects of marijuana explained to me like this, too, and I had the same reaction then.
And fuck anything that reduces my alcohol use. Do not get between me and good beer.
That would explain why most hippies ended up eventually becoming part of the establishment. And I definitely sympathize with your "do not get between me and good beer" imperative.
Personally, as somebody who has never partaken in psychedelics, my greatest fear is the "mystic" description. I don't want to end up being photographed wearing a wizard outfit and a staff in front of a lame starscape backdrop.
It says mystic, not LARP level dorkishness.
I don't want to end up being photographed wearing a wizard outfit and a staff in front of a lame starscape backdrop.
Don't worry. This is much more likely to happen when your drug is ethanol.
The "mystic experience" thing bothers me too. If you can be made to see the Flying Spaghetti Monster by putting the right chemicals in your system, where is the value in it? Mysticism is bullshit, altered state or no.
If you can be made to see the Flying Spaghetti Monster [insert any sensation, like get sleepy or lose your desire to eat] by putting the right chemicals in your system, where is the value in it?
It might save your soul son.
more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in yer philosophy, horatio
Take some shrooms first and then comment.
If you haven't had a heavy psychedelic experience yet, then you've missed out in your life. period. You can justify it any way you want, but from someone who has had some pretty powerful and utterly indescribable experiences, to me it's like trying to justify never seeing colors.
I've had the skin pores on my arms open up and work as ears while listening to Axis: Bold as Love at high volume. Well, that's the best written description I can put to the experience. And yes, it was fucking unbelievable.
I think the very fact that many of the monocle-and-tophat wearing libertarians of this board have admitted to dabbling in hallucinogens and somehow not only retained their critical thoughts of others behaviors but are probably less empathetic than society as a whole kind of refutes your central fear.
As for the LARPing, Wilde once said "In wine there is truth" and no doubt in shrooms there is as much. If you're worried about D&Ding; it up, don't fight it man, ground up an eigth, drink your tea, and get on with your bad self.
Don't forget the gold fobs, waxed mustaches and walking sticks! We libertarian gents party like it's 1899. Nothing like a good Sousa march on absinthe to get your Victorian freak on.
triumph the insult comic dog has a great moment taking on these types at a star wars convention. the wizard guy eating a filet o fish moment is classic
Yes, that's a great moment. His visits to the American Idol auditions are also superb.
Lol. I thought it was the cure for libertarianism too
Lol. I really am a stupid cunt. Lol.
fuck off spoof
Lol. Read my shitty blog, read my shitty blog! Lol.
You're such a boy
This sounds like a great recipe for creating placid citizens unlikely to reject deeper intrusion by government into their lives.
I had this very experience of increased empathy which stuck with me for longer than the trip.
Amazingly, although this made me more inclined to be nice and help people, this didn't turn me into a statist or a placid citizen. Even a little.
Do you really want to take the stand that human empathy is contrary to libertarianism? Our political opponents stand ready to agree.
No, that's not really my position. Perhaps I don't adequately understand the experience. My point is something similar to arguments over disarmament: if you want everyone to be a pacifist, then you better make sure everyone is a pacifist, or there will be wolves and sheep. I guess my fear is that a population could be subverted with drugs that decrease their resistance to control.
I certainly am not makng the case that empathy is anathema to libertariansm. In some ways it is the core of libertarianism: the Golden Rule is a concise statement of both the importance of empathy and the core beliefs of libertarianism. But a drug that delivers placidity and malleability of spirit, in the wrong hands, could help deliver a population into bondage.
Please don't take my position to be a judgment of those who do use these substances--I'm sure many enjoy their effects and it's not my business what they put in their bodies as long as they do not endanger others directly. I just don't think the experience would be for me.
take some shrooms and find out. Whats there to lose?
Good point, if I wanted to control a population I'd load'em up with all the weed and shrooms they wanted. They'd be to blitz to cause trouble and they wouldn't give a crap how badly off they were as long as they had their instant chemical happy.
Not an original idea of course, Huxely did it in Brave New World.
then there's el paso, tx
Empathy really isn't a bad thing. The problem is one the government forces one to be "empathetic."
I just have one question - did the government fund this research?
God damn magic mushrooms!
That's interesting. I assume you don't need a lamp to grow shrooms indoors, either, is that correct?
Just a tank with humidity control and some access to natural light. I've heard.
lol..."i've heard"
like the old eddie murphy routine
Indoors? They grow like weeds in the gulf coastal plain.
I did my time in NO some years back -- me and the South don't get along.
Good god man. Empathy is a bad thing?
Empathy is what makes me a *good* person. And I become more of an anarcho-capitalist every day.
And LESS likely to accept any authoritative involvment.
Let's just see if psilocybin helps with paranoia. Sheesh.
Thank you to Tresspassers W @ 5:24.
Thanks. I could and would use an annual or semiannual dose if it were legal and/or readily available. I heard that Jon Anderson made an annual ritual of it, which I thought was a nice idea.
(When and where I did it before, it was both quasi-legal and readily available.)
I for one would like to try Auyasca root down in the Amazonian hinterlands. Once tried a derivation of its active ingredient up here (DMT), dwarfed anything I'd ever experienced to that point (which is admittedly saying a lot).
This. Shrooms pretty much turned me into a libertarian. Don't do them if you really value being a dick that much.
Have never been able to find any, even amongst purveyors of other sundries. Thinking about growing my own, but heard it's difficult to do correctly.
Move to a rural area in the South. Below the fall line in GA.They're free if you have access to pick them.
I live in Texas, but have never been able to find any. I was looking online and figure I can make a grow kit for less than $100. The problem is, a lot of people on forums have described the process as difficult, and it being easy to lose crops to various illnesses.
Empathy is just selfishness by proxy.
The brain locus for feelings of mystical experience has been pretty well mapped out. There are people who have localized epilepsy, tumors or injuries that cause the region to hyper-activate causing them to believe that random objects in their environment are God or that random statements encode absolute cosmic truths.
There is already technology in the lab that uses highly directed radio beams combined with magnetic fields to selectively activate specific brain regions. It won't be long until we have a gadget that will map out your brain and then let you punch in whatever emotion or state of being you wish to experience. (Of course, if you want to go old school you can shove electrodes in there.)
I do wonder how that will all work out. Emotions provide the bedrock of behavior because emotions are what let us choose between two or more courses of actions. What happens when we have the perfect ability to program ourselves with any emotion? We already have that capability to some extent with modern recreational drugs but this will be way more focused, long term and subtle.
Sometimes I wonder if the Amish will be the only ones to survive.
You grossly overstate the "progress" of neuroscience
It's phrenology for our times, sir. Get with the program! 😉
Damn it! There we go agreeing again!
Medical scanners can only read minds in a very limited sense (e.g.: what you are currently looking at right now, or which way you will go in a binary choice). Nothing is yet precise enough to influence emotional states aside directly stimulating the brain with implanted electrodes.
Though, I always love watching people object to the principle of reading minds with fMRIs, when neurons are too massive to be influenced by Heisenberg uncertainty.
Larry Niven covered this pretty thoroughly in his stories about "wireheads" set in his Known Space universe.
There is already technology in the lab that uses highly directed radio beams combined with magnetic fields to selectively activate specific brain regions.
Does it also use warp fields and Heisenberg compensators?
Radio "beams" (I think you mean waves) are EM radiation, basically the same thing as light, just with lower frequency. Wanna see how magnetic fields interact with EM radiation? Turn on a flashlight and hold a bar magnet next to the beam.
To be fair, transcranial magnetic stimulation *can* achieve interesting (if transient) effects.
1. "beams" is completely acceptable depending on the radiation pattern.
2. it's not about the light and the mag fields interacting, it's how the matter and electrical behavior of your brain interact with the light&fields;. So, nothing like shining a flashlight past a magnet.
Heisenberg uncertainty is not significant on a scale larger than individual atoms or very small molecules.
I haven't done shrooms in a while, but back when I was "young and irresponsible", I did them lots. I'm not spiritual by any means so I never had any kind of spiritual experience on shrooms. It was just my friends and I having fun doing stupid shit. Although one time we did explore the depths of the universe from a scientifically shroomy point of view. We were all musicians so mostly we just jammed on one song for 8 hours. I wonder who has those old tapes?
The bass player in my old band did that one time. He had a one-man jam session over in the corner for about an hour during our set. It is really hard to keep it together when the bass is playing a different song. Different than any ever heard. Some kind of odd atonal jazz progression.
Anyway, we refunded our cover fee and agreed never to come back to that particular bar.
The trick is to have everyone in the band on shrooms. That way, if anyone asks you can tell them that you're an Allman Brothers tribute band.
I'm a psilocybin pony.
No, No, No! This is dangerous and illegal! Wait until the big pharmaceutical companies prepare a patented derivative of psilocybin that they can charge exhorbitant prices for. Then you can pay a pharmacist, psychologist and psychiatrist for access to the brand-named and advertised product with appropriate government sanction.
But drugs are bad!!!
I must be the only libertarian teetotaller. (Though this often works to my advantage when discussing the war on drugs with non-libertarians.)
As long as you respect that other people aren't teetotalers, teetotal to your heart's content.
Well, yeah. Conversations usually go like this:
Me: Yes, I'm 100% for the complete legalization of heroin (or crack, or whatever).
Them: You don't even drink!
Me: Right, so?
Them: <head explode>
Penn Jillette is another one - not even a sip of alcohol in his entire life.
I don't do anything other than drink (in moderation). I would imagine that a lot of libertarians aren't drug users, actually. You don't have to be gay to oppose gay bashers, so why do you need to be drug user to oppose the Chemquisition?
What the others said, plus you don't have to do illegal drugs for the Drug War to fuck you over.
the worst acid trip i ever saw was when i was in pavones, costa rica (one of the greatest waves on earth btw...)
guy we were hangin' with took some acid. soon as he did the waves kept picking up to the point where they were EPIC.
he insisted on surfing
we advised against it.
first wave he took off on,he harmphed the takeoff and got dragged across the reef. he paddled in bloody and defeated
He survived?
My god, whatever happened to natural selection?
Twenty years ago we used to pick em by the bagful out of the cow pastures around Lafayette LA.
"The colors. The colors."
"I feel that I relate better in my marriage. There is more empathy?a greater understanding of people and understanding their difficulties and less judgment. Less judging of myself, too." Another said: "I have better interaction with close friends and family and with acquaintances and strangers....My alcohol use has diminished dramatically."
In other words, you're wearing shrum goggles instead of beer goggles. If that's what you want, more power to you, but I would rather stay sober.
take some shrooms, then comment and see if beer goggles and shroom goggles are the same.