Campaigns/Elections

The GOP Debate: Not Quite Live Blogged

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I'll be updating this every few minutes, probably.

*That Tim Pawlenty is very polite.

*Santorum: Obama is Bush, and that's good.

*Ron Paul: We didn't need a war in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden; now that we have, let's end that war. Big cheers from the crowd.

UPDATE I:

Herman Cain: Experts know more than me. Listen to them.

Gary Johnson: Get out tomorrow! Was right about Iraq from the beginning. The Afghan mission is over, and ties that in with our debt. Against Libya intervention. Cheers.

UPDATE II:

Santorum: Do you still hate Muslims? No, I don't. The reality is, they're crazy.

Paul: Don't we have to beat up bullies? Paul drops some civil liberties on the detention issue. Yes, that's just authoritarian. We can try them in civilian courts. Speaking Latin! Remember, all the powers of government might be used on all of us. No secret prisons or torture. Big cheers. (How was this audience picked?)

UPDATE III

Santorum: I've been everywhere, man. And it's fucked up out there. They want to kill us all. I know.

Waterboarding? Anyone? Bueller? Three authoritarians, two libertarians!

UPDATE IV: THE ECONOMY

Johnson: Accused of crazy free-market ideas that benefit big business, Johnson says corporate income taxes are double taxes, and highest in the world. Eliminate them. That should create jobs. Why not? Individuals might need a bit of help, but people won't solve their own problems if we keep doing it.

Pawlenty: He's a working class meat-packer with a textile job and he's worried. And he's got a family. The National Labor Relations Board is doing something bad involving a factory moving in a story I am frankly not familiar with.

UPDATE V

Cain: Calls for energy independence. What is this guys' supposed right-wing bonafides? He doesn't get markets, that's for sure.

Pawlenty: He's against RomneyCare, even if people in Massachusetts like it. Why? He doesn't like top down approach, and apparently many in the crowd don't. Good call for individual choice, if giving money away give it to citizens to make choices with. Hits Obama on his health care hypocrisy.

UPDATE VI

Santorum: I kind of missed the question, sorry. He likes Paul Ryan's Medicare ideas. We need to efficiently help pay for prescription drugs, but not an uncapped entitlement. People, not government!

Paul: Malpractice, tort reform: why against the latter? A federalist answer–it's a state matter. He knows it's bad for doctors, but he wants doctors to be able to negotiate and get tax deduction for no fault insurance. Doctors and patients should be able to agree on third party settlements and put trial lawyers out of business. This is a hard thing to explain in a minute, to be sure.

UPDATE VII

Santorum: Wants to link debt limit rise to killing ObamaCare. Wants people to be free, ObamaCare takes control of people, and not just the marginal ones we might want to control. We gotta kill it by any means necessary.

Paul: Let us go into default? That'll make borrowing more expensive! What do you want feds to do? Paul says: back to the Constitution. Defense, but not policing the world–maybe we could afford to spend money at home, still leaving us with more real defense. Default? We've done it before. Some goldbug history dropped–we default when we don't pay back in currency worth what it was when we borrowed.

UPDATE VIII

Cain: Says the experts are wrong about the FairTax. He thinks it'll be better for all of us.

Johnson: Steps in! Will this make him look tough or whiny?

UPDATE IX

Pawlenty: Denies that any projected Minnesota deficit is his fault. Says that projected deficit is based on bad assumptions. It's the legislature's fault that the state will have to do something I frankly missed, involving borrowing money from local schools?

Johnson: Medicare–we face financial collapse, we can't repay the debt. We must balance the budget. Gotta start with Medicaid and care. Block grant it to the states, let them innovate and find best practices. If we don't, we're screwed anyway. He changed Medicaid from fee for service to managed care in New Mexico and saved the state money.

UPDATE X

Cain: A bunch of stuff about immigration. Arizona's immigration policy is fine, let states enforce immigration law, they'll do better than Feds.

Santorum: No path to citizenship! English as official language! Do you care if the GOP alienated Hispanics? Americans don't speak Italian. Isn't his minute up yet? Ah, there!

Johnson: They are openly patronizing him now. OK, that tactic of his didn't work. He makes an openly pro-immigration point, that it makes jobs not takes them. Make work visas easy–not citizenship but Social Security card. Make it about work, not welfare. Ones already here, government made it impossible for them to get a work visa. Let them do so. Walls and border guards a waste of money.

UPDATE XI

Cain: Why not intervene in Syria? He's against it, because we don't know why we should. We are inconsistent about where we intervene and where we don't.

Pawlenty: Quaddafi–a Muslim, as Santorum warned us, someone who wants to kill us–should have been  no-flown on March 7. As he advised! President dithered waiting for the Arab League and the UN, who have tied out hands–those pathetic fools! Go, Qaddafi, go!

UPDATE XII

Santorum: Get tough with the Pakis. He supports them, but…you know….vital! But in line! When they are bought, stay bought!

Paul: The Israel vs. Iran question. Israel, says Paul, should be able to do what they think they need to do. It shouldn't be up to the U.S. president. We tie their hands with our aid. Wants no foreign aid to anyone. Wrong in principle, wrong in practice. We give Israel's enemies more in total than we give them. Again, it's up to them to make their security decisions.

UPDATE XIII

Johnson: A free market absolutist–no tariffs of any kind. Tough, radical, short!

UPDATE 19:

Paul: Gay marriage–hypes his new book, and his old marriage. Get government out of it. Entirely. Shouldn't have this argument–he has standards, doesn't want to impose them on others, doesn't want their imposed on him. If you gotta say something about it, it's a state matter. Government intervention in the matter just makes trouble. But–what about Defense of Marriage Act, which Paul has supported? He did not vote for it technically, but did support it. Says DOMA is OK since it protects states from federal imposition. Federalism!

UPDATE 20:

Cain: DOMA's the law. The law's the law.

Johnson: The abortion question! How can you win Republicans supporting abortion? Some boos, some claps. Supports parental notification, late-period bans, no government funding. Admits he might lose primary votes over it, as he did in New Mexico. Very honest. Could win him points.

UPDATE 21:

Pawlenty: Something about stem cells.

Santorum: Why all the social con stuff? No surrender! America is all about social conservatism! Rights come from God, and life and liberty could change the world. We need strong families to be strong with our strong marriages and our lives. Family, life, dignity, don't give up on the U.S., baby.

UPDATE 22:

Cain: Is the GOP the union busting party? The NLRB's attempt to keep Boeing from moving outrageous. Says he believes in free markets, except not in energy, apparently, as above. Get government out of the way of plant-building decisions.

Paul: Didn't the GOP used to be all blue collar union? Union members should believe in rule of law. He can get the votes of farmers without giving them subsidies. Where are jobs being lost? Union states, because wages are too high. Interstate commerce should be free of federal interference.

UPDATE 23:

Pawlenty: Creation, evolution, jeez. Unions! Don't want government intervening in market.

They are now all being embarrassed with some past gaffe, apparently.

UPDATE 24:

Pawlenty caught in a cap-and-trade LIE! He was only studying, not imposing. He studied it, and he didn't like it. He's sorry. He admits he's got darkness in his past. He's sorry. With a look in the eye and everything. Anyone out there perfect?

Santorum got trounced in his last race. Was it his slam on working women? Sorry, radical feminists? Same thing! Why do women work? What do women want? He wants women affirmed no matter what they do. Sorry, choose to do. His wife gave up her career! Is using the word "calling" a special religious right shoutout?

UPDATE 25:

Paul: He's for legalizing all sorts of bad shit! He can sell that to conservatives by pointing out you need to protect liberty across the board. If you want your beliefs and practices protected, you must respect others. As long as not hurting others, you have the right to do controversial things. If we protect our spiritual integrity, we must respect our personal habits. Yes, leave it to the states, heroin used to be legal–he doesn't think everyone will use heroin. I cannot believe I'm hearing this in a presidential debate. What a country! Heroin is an applause line!

UPDATE 26:

Johnson, you are a pothead! He points out the pragmatic end of the stupidity of the war on pot. Too many arrested, too much spent. Prohibition is the problem, not use and abuse–mostly. Legalize, control, tax, not for kids. Harm reduction on the other drugs, not legalization. What about heroin?? The crowd seems to love it!

UPDATE 27:

Cain makes a great call for political amateurism.

UPDATE 28:

Paul: Obama will lose on economy and inflation. People vote on their bellies, which actually is kind of a bad thing for a radical libertarian. Must have liquidation of debt before growth.

Cain: More energy independence nonsense. Broken promises.

Pawlenty: Gas prices are high. Unemployment high. Government out of control. How can Obama be unbeatable? He's just getting a Bin Laden bump.

UPDATE 29:

Santorum: Whatever.

Johnson: It's almost all over, economy-wise–sounding the Paulian ring of economic supercollapsecrisis. Republicans have betrayed us before, but now only they can save us.

UPDATE XXX: THE RETURN OF ROMAN NUMERALS

Cain: He liked Romney when he thought he might win. Loser Romney! Loser!

Pawlenty: He loves the Huck, even tho the Huck could kick his ass. If you know him, you'll love him.

Paul: You Tea Party king! What about Bachmann? Where is your Bachmann now?? He does claim somewhat Tea Party paternity with his $6 million money bomb.

UPDATE XXXI

Isn't Gingrich a sinner, Santorum? Mmmmmaybe. But he's cool. As long as he condemns himself.

Johnson: Reality show star! He wasn't ready for this one. Talk about mountain climbing! Yes! And Zen. Finally, he got to the mountain climbing….

Paul: Budget and deficits are the issue. Philosophically, we need to rethink government–it's just about liberty and free market economy and defense–bring troops home and restore sound money!

UPDATE XXXII

Cain: Patriots, I love God and he loves you!

Pawlenty: We can restore common sense to D.C.

Santorum: I am the conservative, and the lamestream media hates me. I killed welfare dead!

Johnson: Entrepreneurship and cost-benefit analysis. Collapse without balanced budget. Make doable tough choices, approach government with a businesslike cost benefit analysis. Web site!

I'm outta here, pilgrims! God bless America, and God bless legalized heroin!

NEXT: Derbyshire: You Can Trust Voters Unless They're Mexicans

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  1. Johnson seems a little timid but his response was substantive and right on.

    1. Johnson is likeable, I hope they ask him the hemp/marijuana question. He would get a huge boost.

    2. Funny that Mr. 750 vetoes seems timid…

  2. *That Tim Pawlenty is very polite.

    You mean because he deigned to share the stage with these third-rate nobodies?

  3. Herman Cain: Experts know more than me. Listen to them.

    Cain is a joke – he won’t last to the first primary.

    1. He will, however, steal votes from Romney. This election will be interesting as all hell.

  4. Johnson is choking. Too bad, he has the best ideas.

    1. I’m unable to watch. Explain this.

      1. Not the best public speaker.

        1. Shit, is he worse than Paul?!

          1. actually paul is being a reasonably good speaker this time around. Had some good zingers. Probably helped Johnson because somehow FOX threw Paul the hard questions, and Johnson got softballed the libertarian follow-up. It’s as if it’s some sort of conspiracy to promote him.

            1. Kochtopus!!!

      2. I decided to read Brian’s blogging instead of watching the debate, which is on in the other room.

        I hate debates, even though I like Ron and Gary. The whole format is uncomfortable. I prefer debating politics in bars without time limits.

        1. Lol. I was thinking the same thing. I would rather roll this site even though this is the first time posting than listen to Santorum.

          RP 2012.. but of course…

          1. Welcome, stay, share, come back.

            Nothing destroys my working productivity quite as well as reason.

        2. Yeah but in a bar you could spend a couple hours on one topic while in this format the goal is to get coverage of as many topics as possible in as short a time as possible. It is unfortunate because no topic gets the coverage it truly deserves.

  5. “(How was this audience picked?)”

    They spilled in from a Ron Paul rally down the street. The audience is basically a bunch of Paul supporters.

  6. Ron Paul “Tort law is a state matter” – Amen!

    1. You mean states can handle civil matters without the noble federal dictates?

  7. Hey, thanks for the sort-of live blog!

  8. Incase people can’t find it, here is an alternative livestream. The Fox site wasn’t working for me.

    http://www.therightscoop.com/w…..e-9pm-est/

  9. Cain: “Calls for energy independence. What is this guys’ supposed right-wing bonafides? He doesn’t get markets, that’s for sure.”

    A big man who doesn’t understand markets? Shocker!

  10. The National Labor Relations Board is doing something bad involving a factory moving in a story I am frankly not familiar with.

    Jeeze Doherty were you searching “Who is Osama bin Laden” on yahoo the other day?

    NLRB won’t let businesses create jobs in right to work states.
    NLRB Says Business Expansion “Unlawful”

  11. Johnson has had what 2 questions posed to him? T-Paw and the Rickster what 5?

    1. They’re doing him a favor.

      1. He just kicked ass on the abortion question!

        1. He ceded the GOP nomination. Not that he had a shot at it.

          1. Bullshit.

            1. Only pro-life wins the GOP nom.
              Johnson admitted that himself.

              1. And yet he won in NM.

                1. And yet he won in NM.

                  New Mexico isn’t an easy state to politically pigeonhole. The north is pretty reliably Dem because of all the hippies and old-line Hispanic Democrats that live there, but the rest of the state is just…wierd. Albuquerque, for instance, just elected a Repub mayor after being run by a Dem for several years, is represented in Congress by Pelosi-aligned lefty Martin Heinrich, and was previously represented by neocon Heather Wilson. The overall economy is so dependant on federal spending, the state would become one huge livestock range inside of 5 years (as it was during the territorial period) if that spigot ever stopped flowing.

                  It’s an interesting state, but living here can be a really surreal experience from a political standpoint.

                  1. a really surreal experience from a political standpoint.

                    Yeah, the pro-lifers in NM are perhaps more likely to be Democratic Catholics than evangelical Republicans, so in the end it is not as big an issue as it is in other states. Johnson won as an outsider because folks were tired of Bruce King’s old-boy network.

              2. Really? W was pro-life? McCain was pro-life? Have you asked, say, crimethink about this?

                1. W was for it before he was against it.

  12. Why does this circus even matter to you? It’s not like any of these clowns will be able to unseat the president. Be real.

    1. O com’n Tony! This is better than Joy Behar!

      1. That was definitely a spoof. My takeaway: RP, still a kook.

    2. How could one of them NOT unseat him? Just because the last two presidents were reelected doesn’t mean that people have abdicated their capacity to vote bums out.

  13. I gotta say, Ron Paul is kicking major ass tonight.

    1. Agreed. ^^

  14. Oh Jeez – Fair Tax bullshit.

    Tell them you have to have a Constitutional Amendment for it – 24 years minimum.

    1. The FairTax is an albatross around Cain. He needs to give it a shoutout and move on. The more you explain that monstrosity the worse it sounds.

  15. Pawlenty: “I’M HERE TOO! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I’M THE ONLY TOP-TIER CANDIDATE HERE!”

  16. Johnson! Stop whining!

    1. Maybe Reason will un-retract that piece that foreshadowed what a lousy candidate Johnson is.

    2. Bullshit. Good for him. Ron Paul should have done that 4 years ago. If they’re going to deliberately marginalize the candidates they don’t like, at least make sure it doesn’t slip by anyone watching at home.

      1. good fucking point. You’re right, he needs to do this and quite frankly I like the guy.

        1. Ronald Reagan won the Republican nomination in 1980 in part because he yelled during a debate “I paid for this goddamned microphone and I’m gonna speak!” (loose translation, but close).

          The public eats that shit like Mickey Ds. They like a man willing to demand recognition.

          1. Unless it make you sound like a biatch…

            1. Definitely. I said that before I sctually watched it. Sadly, johnson came across way to weak/effeminate for a ‘pub primary.

              1. Maybe Herman Cain can give him some voice lessons so he can have a rich baritone instead of a shaky tenor.

                Also, he needs a valium for the finger twitching.

  17. Goddamnit, Ron Paul, stick to what can get you elected! You get a softball on the debt and go on a tangent about militarism?

    1. It’s all the same thing.

      1. Except that one way of talking about it makes sense to Republican voters and the other doesn’t.

    2. Paul needs to go to Afghanistan and remind everyone he’s a veteran.

      1. Seriously, RP just won’t whore out his service to his country. He should’ve laid it all out for the four other pussies (sorry, Gary) on the stage.

        1. Pussies don’t climb Everest or compete in the Iron Man.

    3. The two are very much related. Ron Paul knows that he is not going to be elected. Frankly, I think he probably doesn’t want to be elected.

      I’m glad that he constantly brings up the issue of militarism around Republicans. He is delivering a message that Republicans desperately need to hear.

      1. The two are very much related.

        Except that we could gut the DoD entirely and still be $800bn fucking dollars in the hole. Not that we shouldn’t pare back on the $800bn fucking dollars we spend on defense, but we gotta at least be honest and say that even that ain’t enough and that maybe kindly ol’ Granny Edna pay some of her $1,000/week prescription drug habit.

        1. Glad I’m not the only one hammering on this point about DoD spending.

      2. Have you been over to Drudge Report tonight? Look at the nice big headline…

      3. Ron Paul knows that he is not going to be elected.

        The more he forgets that the better the campaign.

  18. Cain knows his four ingredients on a Pizza Supreme.

  19. Herman Cain is making good points and getting hotter as this party rolls forward

    1. If only he had a 7th grade command of the English language….

      1. Unfair. He has what Harry Reid would call a “negro dialect” but his command of the English language is just fine.

        1. Umm, two versus three is not a “negro dialect” issue.

      2. He graduated from Morehouse. His English is far better than yours.

        1. I know lot’s of Morehouse graduates. Several of them work for me. This is not a recommendation.

        2. I know lot’s of Morehouse graduates. Several of them work for me. This is not a recommendation.

          1. Are you in the ATL? I might need a job soon,lol.I would agree on some of the more recent Morehouse men but the same could be said of nearly every school.
            When Cain graduated that was a first-rate education.

  20. Acid Amnesty and Abortion!

    LOL!!!

    1. Single Issue Voter my ass.

      1. Blow me

        Ron Paul is playing the three issues correctly on principle. Johnson is coming off like a free market McGovern.

        1. So you concede that you’re full of shit. If you really were a Single Issue Voter you would be supporting both Paul & Johnson. Not talking shit when someone running for President talks openly about legalisation.

          1. Show me Gary Johnson’s position (under Fed-law) on animal “rights” and cockfighting in particular. I think I know exactly where Ron Paul stands.

        2. Isnt McGovern now a free market McGovern?

  21. Johnson is making some pleasing noises WRT to immigration.

  22. Gary Johnson has the Noam Chomsky problem – his answers require more time — like more than 30 seconds.

    1. Except that when you hear Chomsky’s extended answer you want to rip off your ears so you don’t ever have to hear such monstrous stuff again.

  23. can’t we just elect Juan Williams? he’s cleaner and more articulate than any of the candidates.

    1. Walt Williams, ho!

  24. T-Paw got in the first Reagan reference!

    SCCOOOOOORRRRREEE!

    1. You mean DRINK!

  25. Pawlenty disses the UN, then walks it back? Establishment tool.

  26. OMG! Ron Paul just killed it on the Isreaeli question. They have the right to protect themselves without our intervention.

    1. but he said jew!

      1. That’s the good racism.

      2. I am Jew and, on behalf of my peeps, let me just say that we is all honored and shit to be mentioned. Go RP!

  27. Johnson gets a lay-up on 25% Trump tariffs.

  28. Wow! Doherty alone is beating the Peanut Gallery combined.

    We suck.

    1. I assume that’s the royal “we”.

  29. Ugh, Johnson complains about not getting enough questions, then answers his question in five seconds and gives up the balance of his time? WTF?

    1. At 5 seconds per, he could answer LOTS of questions.

  30. Gotta admit, Cain is sounding pretty smart. He at least admits he doesn’t have all the answers already.

    1. He’s holding in there. Cain is smart and a hell of a speaker. I hope his debate performance improves though.

      1. He can’t be any worse than the presumptive front runners Mitt, T-Paw, Mitch Kramer, or the Donald

  31. Outside Santorum, this debate is a real breath of fresh air in comparison with circa 2008.

  32. Ron Paul hits another one out of the park on marriage. Or am I just a delusional libertarian?

    1. His reply on DOMA was rambling.

  33. Alan Keyes on DOMA – same answer as 2004.

    1. Whoops – I meant Herbal Cain.

  34. Man, Pawlenty is such an establishment hack. He reminds me of a less smarmy Romney.

  35. Cain isn’t nuts.

      1. I don’t think he is nuts at all.

        I think he is a deacon and not a problem solver.

  36. Doherty, on fire!

    1. Agree. This free-form form Doherty is impressive.

      1. Doherty is even self editing on the fly.

        I meant “from” above.

  37. Shorter Santorum: “God!!!111!! God hates muslims and gays!!! Did I mention God!!!”

  38. Well done to the Reason.com staff who have this forum rolling. You should keep it up this season!

  39. Rudy:9/11::Santorum:God

    1. Sadly, I think that makes Santorum the favorite among GOP rank and file.

      Fucking can’t stand socons.

      Shrike, sometimes, I thank you for introducing me to the term christfag

      1. Santorum is nothing. He has a Gary Johnson chance at the GOP nom. As in: “no chance in Hell”.

  40. Supports parental notification, late-period bans, no government funding.

    That’s half of it. The other half is being sincerely vehemently pro-life.

    Johnson fails that part. The GOP nomination ain’t goin’ to no baby-killer.

    1. Fuck off.

      1. You don’t vote in the GOP primaries so STFU get in the kitchen and make some damn biscuits!

    2. He got booed if my sound is working.

    3. As governor of NM, he did more to reduce abortions than most pro-life governors have done.

      Due to that half.

      And for a federal job, the other half doesnt matter at all, because its a state issue after Roe v Wade is overturned.

      1. As governor of NM, he did more to reduce abortions than most pro-life governors have done.

        How ya figure that?

  41. Good to see Bret Baier’s astonishment when Gary Johnson said he was opposed to tariffs in all situations.

    I think I’m with him on that. I could imagine a scenario where I’d support flat, across-the-board tariffs to fund the constitutional functions of the federal government, following the repeal of the 16th amendment.

    1. I really liked his answer. I was also surprised at Brett Baier’s surprise. Its called the free market man.

    2. Gary needs a speech trainer to get him sounding more definitive with his answers (that damn voice cracking is screwing him), but if he works on that his answers on the issues could carry him far!

  42. I’m pro-egg antichicken! Go fuck yourself Tim!

    1. hah, Pawlenty, that is.

  43. that Paul’s “problem” question is about newsletters?

    1. Nobody gives a shit about the newsletter except for Cosmo-FAGS

      1. Dude, this is Cosmo-Fag City, and we don’t take too kindly to your kind around here.

        1. I know. I’m just making work for the glaziers.

  44. Ron Paul – prostitution is like your religion.

    (which I AGREE with – but not SC)

  45. Hmmm…radical feminism? My wife works because she has to, or else we couldn’t afford my annual new car and vacation.

  46. fuck yeah Ron Paul!

    1. finally someone just says it.

  47. Heroin gets applause in South Carolina!

    1. Damn that’s as awesome as Doherty’s freestyle.

    2. Surreal.

      (And I’m not even high. Yet.)

    3. Heroin and prostitution!

      How about the moderator calling Paul ‘senator’?

      (I’m catching up on DVR)

    4. 4 years ago, they had a state Treasurer who snorted the Ko-Caine. (Google “Thomas Ravenel”)

      Souf Cackallack is plenty sophisticated, yo!

      1. Fucking Ravenel wasn’t discreet and gave us 6 more years of fucking “Lindthy” Graham.

  48. However the Republican presidential nominee debate went I believe its hypocritical for Republicans to deny the rights of low income voters to vote. re: insisting on photo IDs.
    Topic Republicans pushing for the requirement of photo IDs for voting nationwide.

    Mathew Ryan Republican member of the US House Ways and Means Committee is proposing that voters present some form of photo ID. He proposes either a birth certificate or a passport. The problem with this is how many poor persons own a passport. Plus one can lose a birth certificate and it may be difficult, or too costly for these voters to obtain a new one. I strongly suspect in the guise of protecting honest voting , the Republicans are doing their utmost to disenfranchise mostly Democratic voters.

    Photo IDs will bring on new hardships to election administrators. This very well could mean a very real possibility of more poll workers, the updating of election and other relevant forms, websites, training on the processing of provisional ballot processes and possibly other burdens. And of course more expenses for deficit strapped states.

    Many studies nationwide show that voter fraud is quite a rare happening and virtually never because of the fault of faulty voter IDs. A little over ten percent of otherwise eligible voters don’t possess the currently acceptable photo ID forms. Many college students go to out of colleges and universities. Their driver’s licenses do not necessarily reflect the state where their institution of higher learning is. The students residency is their home state not where they are a college or university student is attending. Minorities such as African Americans, Hispanics, new immigrants are much less likely to own such IDs.

    My take as a disability advocate at a rehab center in Philadelphia, PA is this. It may be quite difficult for people who are low income to produce a photo ID. This includes many people who are disabled, seniors and college students. Besides quite a few seniors, by virtue of getting older are handicapped. There just arn’t that many folks who are poor who possess passports. Plus there are a significant number of people with disabilities who can’t get drivers licenses because their disabilities. When was the last time you saw a visually disabled person with a drivers license. There are many states who don’t require photo ID with little or no problems in voter fraud and/or voter registration. The point is that a lot of these photo IDs are very difficult for people with low incomes, ie, disabled, seniors and others on fixed incomes to get. This population mostly votes Democratic. Hmmm Pattern?

    The time and money used to get a photo ID is like a poll tax ? a barrier long used to deny African-Americans the vote. The photo ID bill is a biased, modern-day power grab

    Here is a partial list of states that don’t require a photo ID. This information is as of April 28,2011. The non photo ID requirement states are as follows: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Minnosota, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin. There is something else these states hold in common. To implement the new photo ID legislations the cost would literally be in the millions in each state. In the environment of deficits, rising costs, do we really need the expense to implement photo ID requirements. Some Republicans are proposing to pay for those without enough money to obtain such forms of identifications. Can you imagine what the cost would be to implement this? In the meantime thirty five states and Puerto Rico are suffering from serious shortfalls in this fiscal year. Some gaps in some states as high as 32% NJ 26%, NC, close to 5%. Can we really pay for the implementation of those photo ID proposals. I’m experiencing real doubts here.

    Below is what the Brennen Law Center says on the so called problem of voter fraud and requiring photo IDs to vote. While it’s certainly true that voter fraud is a terrible crime literally effecting the outcome of the integrity of elections, the actual incidence of such crimes are rather minimal.
    Voter ID The Solution in Search of a Problem. Source Brennan Law Center.

    Some of what they wrote is paraphrased by yours truly. Rest assure I did not change any meaning or message. Presently there are eight states requiring some form of ID. They are Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, S.D. There are 20 or so states who require an ID but not necessarily a photo type. There are proposals in over 30 states to show tangible proof of citizenship.

    Politicos who are pro photo ID claim they want to cut down on voter fraud. The Brennan Center for Justice study shows individual voter fraud is extremely rare. Many reports of suposed voter fraud were later proven to be untrue. The claimsof voter fraud and/or misconduct must be carefully studied before there is any decision for action, especially legal action. Photo IDs won’t solve voting fraud but will make it harder for some groups of eligible voters to vote in elections on any level. That is be it municipal, state or federal.

    As many as 12 percent of eligible voters in the U.S. do not have a government-issued photo ID. The percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Getting an ID often requires that you already have one.

    Besides making it harder for eligible citizens to vote, ID requirements are expensive to states to implement. This in light of the fact many states are at serious deficits. The education of voters, election workers and officials is quite costly. Plus there is a very real possibility of costly challenges in court. One typical example is MO $.10,000.000

    Brennan Law Center site. “Based on a comprehensive review of every court case in which a photo ID law has been challenged, the Brennan Center produced a report outlining the costs (PDF) states will incur if they decide to implement photo ID requirements for voters. While the results of lawsuits challenging photo ID laws have been mixed, several basic principles have been established:”

    Photo IDs sufficient for voting must be available free of charge for all those who don’t possess them. States cannot limit free IDs to those who swear they are indigent. Photo IDs must be accessible at all times to every voter sans hardship or burden. At the very least most states will probably need to expand the number of ID-issuing offices and stretch operating hours to meet this need. Republicans claim they will provide photo ID. My question is this. What is the cost involved for this endeavor. I think it would be much cheaper and easier to permit non Photo IDs to vote. This goes for the cost of voter outreach and education if this law is enacted in the states its being proposed in.
    Some courts may require states to ensure that all the documents required in order to obtain photo IDs are free and easily available to prospective voters.
    Lastly the official organization for election reform and fair elections, “Common Cause” is totally against requiring Photo IDs to vote.

    1. Honey please don’t fill hot threads with super long off topic posts.

    2. Wall of prose. Forget it.

    3. Lastly the official hack liberal organization for bitching about proposed election reforms designed to prevent voter fraud and to ensure fair elections, “Common Cause” is totally against requiring Photo IDs to vote.

      1. Summary: Voting is super important, which is why no one should have to show ID to vote.

  49. RT from @notjessewalker: Paul makes a balls-to-the-wall libertarian defense of legal heroin.

    1. so righteous. Worth every penny I donated for that one.

    2. That was awesome. Didn’t back down at all.

      1. not only that, but he made socons feel guilty… if they vote against him on the drugs issue, then they are admitting to themselves that they are too weak! This is great for…. Gary Johnson.

        1. “he made socons feel guilty”

          Reality distortion field enabled. Wishful thinking mode engaged.

    3. and Johnson wants to turn it over to the Public Health Nazis.

      There is only one libertarian choice here.

      1. Look! Ninja wantz to legalize weed. WTF else you want from a ho?

        What if, in Bizarro World, you got RP elected and every single state kept pot illegal?!?!

      2. There are other factors to consider, notably Paul’s awful stance wrt Lawrence vs Texas.

      3. Federalism is not libertarianism. Also, the Constitution is not a libertarian document, considering in originally encoded slavery into law and gives politicians open-ended loopholes that allow them to ignore limits on government.

        1. No, the Constitution is not a libertarian document, but dishonest and dishonorable politicians will always find a way to ignore limits on government, no matter how tightly they are worded.

        2. check it out, Hobo

    4. Jeez – not that legalize-leaning pols get taken seriously very often, but when they do the “but what about heroin” question is usually when they go limp and say, “well, I’m not crazy, no.”

      Not Paul. If he’d had more time sounds like he might have started defending heroin vending machines.

      1. I’m only for heroin vending machines if they’re across from schools and are placed adjacent to both top hat and monocle vending machines.

  50. Please Let peace with us.

  51. Please let peace with us.

  52. Johnson gets healthy-enough applause for the legalize-and-tax drug policy that @MikeRiggs calls “the damn truth.”

    1. I liked hearing the Paul/Johnson moral/legal case back to back.

      Johnson may not win the purity test, but I’ll take it.

      1. Paul wins it. My wallet is going to be lighter.

  53. I love me some herb!

  54. I know Ron Paul has a slight chance of doing something, but why the fuck is Rick Santorum in this debate? He’s a fucking idiot.

  55. Ron Paul is unfucking stoppable tonight. I was on the fence about donating to his campaign this time but sign me up now. Preach on.

    1. It’s called “Ron Stoppable”. Yes…yes…that’s a reference to Disney’s “Kim Possible”…

  56. Big applause for Paul’s debt-elimination stump. Having two libertarians absolutely changes the shape of GOP debates.

  57. How can anybody be posting here when, judging from the applause, every libertarian in the country is in the crowd?

    1. nice stealth joke.

    2. iPhones, bitches!

    3. Or fucked up on heroin

  58. Obamas biggest liability is his secret Muslim crypto-communist Kenyan citizenship.

    And inflation.

  59. Bob Casey 59%

    Santorum 41%

    Pa- Senate

  60. these politicians are fucking annoying

  61. I was on the fence about donating to Paul’s money bomb. After hearing his defense of heroin legalization, I decided to donate.

    1. I was going to donate to Ron too, but after all this talk about heroin my arms itch. I’m going to go cop instead.

      1. Then your nose will be itching.

  62. T-Paw and Santorum are out of their league here. Both sputtering.

    1. Agreed. Bullshit platitudes instead of specifics.

    2. I’ve never seen Santorum before. Is he an insufferable asshole or what?

    3. They’re awful. Now Herbal Cain is crapping on Romney.

      The Huckster is terrible. Trump is a joke.

    4. “Santorum” – such an unfortunate name.

      1. I can’t tell if you’re actually oblivious to why that is the case or not.

        HINT: Rick Santorum is the reason that his name is unfortunate.

    5. The thing that kills me is how much of a douche, insincere, political fuck t paw came across as, and knowing he was still deemed the winner by beltway blowhards

      1. He was the “winner”? I’ve lost all respect for whatever asshole declared that. He was the douchey-est one of them all up there.

  63. That Paul line about Heroin was EASILY the highlight of this entire debate.

    1. So true. The political ad to destroy RP’s primary bid practically writes itself.

  64. I’m a little disappointed in Johnson’s weakness wrt legalizing drugs other than MJ. Still, sounds like an awesome debate.

    Just how important is this debate to the whole GOP race though?

    1. I think it may have looked weak because it was following Pauls awesome, full-throated defense of all drugs.

    2. probably not at all, but we’ll see. things may get weird.

    3. I’d guess it depends on how strong the GOP central structure is: This is clearly what the Republican establishment considers the b-team, so the effect of the surge here is relative to how little fire the establishment is able to get going. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)

      Who took over as Republican Party chairman after Michael Steele got run out on a rail?

      1. Prince Adam. During elections, he turns into He-Man. Newt is Cringer, who released a book to turn into Battlecat.

      2. Reince Priebus, it says here on Wikipedia.

        1. Wow, from the “Stimulus Legislation Team” to the Republican National Committee in one bound. And to think I sometimes suspect Republicans don’t stand for anything!

          1. You must be shitting me. Well that’s what I’d say if I didn’t know the GOP as well as Reason has enabled me to.

  65. some people say I’m not here because I haven’t declared. I’m not there because they think I have raccoon eyes. I don’t see it. I just don’t see it.

  66. Juan Williams to Santorum – “Is Gingrich a scumbag like most think?”

  67. uh oh – Johnson just insulted Sista Sarah.

    Sad to say – he is out.

  68. Only an hour and a half? That’s weird. I mean, either shit, or get off the pot. One hour, or two.

  69. Very weak applause for Cain.

    1. And now the focus group was all Cain fans. I don’t get it.

      1. I do. Just listen to them.

  70. T-Paw barely any applause at all.

    1. I’ve already forgotten him.

  71. I have to thank T-Paw for my new handle. This is sweet.

  72. Pawlenty -“America, America, AmericaN, America. Common sense. America. Common sense. Common sense. America. Thank you. America”

  73. Santorum got polite applause.

  74. Johnson was very good but needs to be quicker on his feet. Paul was on fire. But the real winner of the night is Brian Doherty.

    1. Agree! Doherty is the best live-blogger ever.

      Thanks – BD. I read most of your comments and quit the sound!

      1. Excellent work Brian.

      2. Agreed.

  75. Enthusiastic response for Johnson. I think Paul probably won the applause off.

    1. At least Paul and Johnson demonstrated that they’re, so far, far and away better candidates than pawlenty and scrotum (Cain’s out of his element, but at least he isn’t clutching a bible for every answer)!

    2. I think they won this battle together as a Libertarian Gemini. Greater than the sum of their parts and all that.

    1. I am so disappointed in my fellow stonerz for not getting behind GJ hardcore.

      Dude Keynoted a National NORML conference. He couldn’t get more pro-pot if he was motherfucking Lester Grinspoon!

      1. He could get more pro-Heroin.

        Ron Paul FTW!

  76. Ron Paul won, easily. He had the best laugh lines and of course the right answers.

    1. I thought so too.

      And I prefer Johnson.

      1. Same here, but Johnson just couldn’t quite get it together.

  77. Thanks Brian, for semi-live blogging this!

  78. Doherty, you magnificent bastard! Marry me!!!!!11!!

    Seriously, well done.

    1. No homo.

  79. Great job, BD.

  80. Paul’s spastic speaking style probably turns too many people off. It doesn’t help when he comes off as having Alzheimer’s.

    And hahahahahah, Frank Luntz.. Herman Cain won, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ron Paul is skipping Hannity.

    Gary Johnson has a sortof gay public speaking style ( no PC). I mean, I really like him.. but his mannerisms…

    1. Thought the same thing re GJ’s speaking style

      1. Ditto. My friend who was watching with me, and is nonpolitical and had no preconceived notions about the candidates, thought likewise.

  81. Group of SC Repubs on Hannity overwhelming felt Cain won the debate.

    Repubs are sheep.

    1. I predicted a Cain “win” on a couple of other threads. The upstate SC ‘pubs knew him well before this debate. Cain will do well in the South.

      1. I have to give you props for that.

        I thought he was last.

        You win this time.

      2. I remember there was at least one commenter hoping Cain would win, just for the mindfuck. Was that you too?

      3. Whatever upstate SC GOPers knew about Cain doesn’t explain the rxn of this Tea Partier GOP focus group, because only 1 of them came in supporting him. Unless they figured a way to stack a focus group, the were legitimately swung over. This is significant.

        1. Weird, but logical.

        2. But now the RTR.org emcee has given info that leads me to reverse my thinking the pro-Cain focus group response was significant: the Fox host has been known to stack such gatherings, and it would be easy enough to stack such a focus group without its attendees even realizing it was being stacked.

          1. Is it likely that a Repub establishment leech like Luntz would stack the focus group in order to support a candidate that the political class would never support because of his promotion of a radical replacement of the tax code? In this case, the focus group response may actually be real.

  82. Did these assholes watch the same program? Herman…Cain…was the best? And they almost ALL think that?!

    1. Amazing.

    2. Not only that, but just one of them came in supporting him, and by the end practically the entire room supported him. Black guy, former member of the regional Federal Reserve Board, pizza magnate…and SC Tea Party activist Republicans were swung to him! Just shows how the dynamics of juries, caucuses, etc. can go.

    3. I thought he was clean and articulate.

      1. That’s “storybook”, man.

  83. I have to say, it was great to see 2 out of 5 GOPers up there supporting drug legalization.

  84. Paul for the win! And he is snubbing Hannity to attend a Tea Party rally.

  85. Luntz’ panel of actors and activists portraying likely voters thing Herman Cain won?!

    “F–k you, Frank!”

  86. RT @thegarance: “Frank Lunzt’s Fox poll group: Herman Cain is breakout star of debate”

    Where’s Luntz getting that data from?

    1. He had a live control group on Fox News.

    2. The furry thing that lives on top of his skull shits and sweats that kind info directly into his brain.

    3. I’d say Paul and cain tied for the win, with Johnson coming in third and T-Paw and Scrotumbags at the bottom.

  87. Ack! You left before Fox, streamed here by RTR (jumpy) focus-grouped local Tea Partiers, and in a MAJOR MINDFUCK, CAIN WON THEM OVER OVERWHELMINGLY!!!

    Now RTR is testing their own teleconference in rxn.

    1. And now the focus group people like Santorum after Cain. This is impossible.

      1. Republicans deserve to lose. The base is filled with fucking idiots.

  88. Damn, Cain read the Luntz talking points.

    He is pulling Dog Santorum votes over to him. – well good for him – that is what debates are for.

  89. Hannity : “serious candidates like Trump not there tonight”

    1. Did he really say that? There are few people on earth I detest more than Sean Hannity. Additionally, there are few people on earth nearly as dimwitted.

      1. Well he was in the list with Gingrich, Romney, Palin(maybe?). I think the Luntz people laughed at the mention of Trump. So maybe they aren’t all bad.

  90. And 2 of out of 5 not supporting all-out war, plus Herman Cain taking a measured approach about blowing shit up.

    1. Hey…all out war is necessary to keep a lot of jobs in a lot of districts.

    2. Yeah, 5 candidates on the stage and 50 percent of them were against the wars.

  91. Cain BIG WINNER!

    Jeez – I knew I was a European fuck-ass whore!

  92. Fuck you Frank! Yeah, they’re trying to frame this debate now on Fox. Fuck them.

  93. I only saw the end. Did Herman Cain say anything that made sense? I just saw him talking loud and throwing words together.

    Was it the god-stuff and southern drawl?

    1. Could it be they just saw a black face and decided it takes a Negro to beat a Negro incumbent? RTR cut off the feed audio before it got too far, but they were remarking things like the other candidates all had talking points, while Cain gave simple answers that made sense. Maybe that’s the idea: make everything ad hoc, people don’t want philosophy, ideology, or politicians in general.

      1. …people don’t want philosophy, ideology,…

        Thinking is hard!

    2. I called a Cain win before the debate in multiple threads.I’ll offer a detailed explanation when there is a bigger audience if anyone gives a shit.The short version is he is a true “outsider” who isn’t too far outside. The GOP establishment want Cain as an outlet for the ant-establishment voters. I just want Herman Cain to take out the has-been establishment candidates.

      1. I give a shit. I caught his comment when he said something about being proud of not holding elected office. So I’ll give him that. He had some good outsider talk, but most of what I heard was just talking but not saying anything.

      2. I liked when he talked about Romney being a loser, too.

      3. I thought he brought some humor to it, and I liked the Romney Loser line, too.

    3. The one answer of his I saw was “have to see the confidential information before deciding what to do in Afghanistan”. Which is a sensible position but probably not a popular one.

  94. Wrapup: Excellent liveblogging by Brian and the comment all-stars. Also, I canceled two Star Trek reruns from my DVR queue for this?

  95. Well, at least you can’t call those hicks racist.

    1. Sure you can call them racist. They like Cain because he’s not articulate like Obama. He’s good blackie who talks about God and Patriotism and doesn’t worry about that other stuff.

      1. That’s funny.

        He is Alan Keyes in brownface.

        1. Thread winner. Hahahahaha

  96. Paul was great — much better than 4 years ago.

    I nominate Doherty for permanent Not-Quite-Live-Blogger for the rest of the season.

    1. By the way, Paul’s just under $900,000 for the night right now.

    2. Yeah, in 2008 he may have reigned it in on the heroin and prostitution question. This time he seemed to say “Fuck it” and went for the full defense of liberty.

      1. Reminds me of that CPAC speech where he went full-on anarchist and said “the government shouldn’t be able to do anything you can’t do”.

        I nearly shit myself. Are we really hearing stuff like this at GOP events? And it’s getting applause?

        1. Paul has got one last shot. Doesn’t look like he’s going to waste it.

          1. There’s no way he’ll make the nomination, but watching him knock over these events is entertaining as hell.

            I’d be sending a few bucks to the Paul campaign right now if I lived in the US.

        2. Only because most of the audience hasn’t thought through the implications of that truth. HEck, most libertarians haven’t either.

          1. This is the wrong place to point out that libertarians don’t think things through. We’re all about living in the now without responsibilities.

  97. I’m not sure any of these candidates are republicans.

  98. What the fuck is all this then?

  99. 1st Skype commenter on RTR is saying he thinks the focus group of 29 was just engaging in propaganda. I don’t think so.

  100. Gary Johnson got it mostly right. But no tarriffs.. Tariffs are used as WEAPONS by virtually every government on earth ( inclucing our own ). We MUST have deal with them and continue the battles and negotiations. This will not end till long after the second coming.

    1. They are self-destructive weapons. Just because someone else is shooting themselves in the foot doesn’t mean we have to.

  101. Santorum!

  102. This GOP control group is brain-dead like most of the GOP.

    Fucking Santorum finished second. Pure idiots.

    and people here wonder why I hate conservatives?

    Look at these hicks.

    1. You won’t hear any (okay, much) argument here. I’m frankly surprised you can stomach that post-debate garbage.

    2. I feel I understand you better now than ever before.

  103. Santorum’s crooked face really bothers me.

    I mean, I’m not that superficial. Just another annoying thing in addition to his terrible beliefs.

  104. Hey folks click the poll!

      1. OK I see some of you have.

      2. Haha Ron Paul had ~85% of the vote.

  105. Jim DeMint gives libertarians a little love. Hannity ” fuck libertarians. Ronald Reagan!”

  106. Then after DeMint explains the importance of rational libertarian input into the debate, Hannity decides that he also likes some libertarian stuff.

    1. I bet Jim DeMint votes for Paul in the primary. I wouldn’t count on a full-throated endorsement though.

      1. SIV’s pretty good calling these things, but did you (like me) guess that Palin would be the GOP Veep Nod?

        1. I named Palin as the VP in Jan of 2008 heere on reason. Or maybe Feb. Early on when everyone thought McCain would be dropping out any minute now.

          She was the obvious choice without having a clue who was going to win the prez nomination.

          And, IIRC, people on here ridiculed my prediction.

  107. Good summary of the debate.

    Ron Paul won going away. He seemed much more relaxed and confident than the other candidates, and sounded much more Presidential than he did in the 2007 debates.

    How the other candidates did, in my opinion:

    Cain: seemed smarter and a more experienced leader than the other guys.

    Santorum: a good debater, but basically W2.

    Johnson: good points and a great record, but whiny and fidgety.

    Pawlenty: if this guy’s “top tier”, I’m a ham sandwich.

    1. I pretty much agree with your assessment.

    2. “W2”? You mean Santorum was withholding?

  108. donated for the first time to RP.

    I thought Cain and his lists were entertaining

  109. I liked Johnson more after watching this, but think he did poorly…he (unfortunately) needs to better package his responses in 60 second packages.

    Also, while he gave (imo) the correct answer to all of the questions posed him, he did a poor job explaining the reasons…something Paul did a phenomenal job at, even with I agree with Paul (slightly) less.

    1. Yeah, Paul definitely was able to explain the underlying premises much better. Johnson put his positions out there, but didn’t try to justify them with principles.

      1. That’s why I can’t support Johnson although I welcome his campaign.

        1. It may work out. Paul could electrify the electorate and Johnson could reap t he benefits when people think, “I really like Paul, but he’s old and a bit kooky”.

  110. How the candidates did, in my opinion:

    Paul: has all the charm of Grandpa in “Texas Chainsaw Massacre.”

    Cain: couldn’t find his ass with a flashlight.

    Santorum: makes normal people want to vomit.

    Johnson: has flecks of shit on his eyelashes.

    Pawlenty: way too normal.

    1. “Cain: couldn’t find his ass with a flashlight.

      RACIST!

  111. Johnson just busted Hannity’s balls! “I’m glad you save the best to last.” Then tanked on “is sleep deprivation torture”. I’m seeing him as a Paul VP now. I hate that.

    1. Don’t worry. You’ll wake up.

    2. If by some miracle Paul could get the nom his best choice for VEEP would be Palin hands down.I’m speaking as a handicapper not a partisan here.

      1. I’d say you’re speaking as a wingnut.

  112. Important info from the emcee of the RTR (pro Ron Paul) Skype cf.: The emcee of the Fox focus group of 29 local GOP Tea Partiers has been known to stack these gatherings. Whew…that would explain the anomalously good response for Cain.

    1. Well, that’s a relief (wink, wink).

    2. Cain IS a good candidate.He’s also a “safe” choice of a true outsider not too far off the res. Without any significant stumbles Cain could win a Tea Party primary contest. If he catches fire he is enough outside to scare the GOP establishment shitless.

      1. After giving this some thought (and single malt scotch) I’m kind of seeing him as the potential Obama of the 2012 election. Even ignore the issue of race (“hey, they can’t accuse of of racism with this guy!”).

        – He’s a political outsider
        – He offers very rational sounding platitudes: knowing the goal in order to make your strategy vs. Obama’s governing by science/fact instead of faith). It’s a nice, if completely non-committal to describe what you’re going to do.
        – Listen to “the experts” (top men, to be sure)
        – His position is more “I’m not ” than anything else.

        Paul – Liberty! Get Federal government out of things and let states take over.
        Santaorum – Our country is founded on Liberty, and that’s why we should enforce the Christian family, women staying at home, and killing muslims (except the one or two that aren’t crazy fundamentalists). And 2 or three other contradictory statements.
        -Johnson: Cost-benefit analysis. Ran a business
        Cain – This Obama guy is bad. Especially with regard to some Boeing / South Carolina thing no one knew about until tonight.
        -Some other guy?

        1. And as a former regional Fed chairman, he’s probably even more in the tank for Wall Street than Obama. Score!

        2. Why can’t Cain be a serious version of Trump? You know an outsider who has actually had a career and isn’t a circus freak? The fact that Trump got any traction at all shows how desperate people are for someone new.

    3. Uh yeah, it’s fucking Frank Luntz. They guy is both a douchebag AND a turd sandwich.

  113. Actually there exists a very (unfortunately) good comeback (but not possible in this debate format, fortunately) to Ron Paul’s remark that people need to uphold the liberty of others if they want it for themselves. The comeback is that all this time that narcotics have been subject to controls, they have been allowed to attend the church of their choice, etc. That is the problem: some people’s liberty can always be sacrificed while others enjoy theirs.

    1. That’s very insightful, Robert, especially the unfortunately and fortunately parts. Liberty is such a complicated issue.

    2. I think the response to that response is that they have been enjoying a false liberty. If you’re only free as long as the government thinks you should be free, you were never really free at all.

      1. That’s like dying of something else and finding on autopsy that you had a cerebral aneurysm that never blew — inconsequential.

    3. And some people are rotting in prison while you and I live as free men. The people who want to have sex with 8 year olds are prevented by law while you and I read whatever books we like.

      Your response is just question begging. There will always be some actions that are outside the bounds of the law. The question is should drugs be one of those activities.

      I agree that drugs should not be illegal. But the fact that we have other freedoms but not that one says nothing about the issue.

  114. The naive dreamers here make me laugh. The fact that you can’t understand why a man like Cain can win an audience over while the same audience can’t even remember that Johnson was in the debate shows me that, while your knowledge of arcane libertarian theory is A+, your knowledge of human nature, marketing, and politics is D-. Just like I found over the years with my local LP activists.

    Politics is the art of the possible. Never forget that.

    1. Cain had swagger. GOP eats that shit even more than god. See: Reagan, ronald

    2. See all my comments. Particularly my pre-debate predictions. Caveat: I’m only a wiz political prognosticator in the Southern states.

  115. Shorter Brian Doherty:

    It was just after the moderator’s introduction of the candidates when the mescaline kicked in…

    But seriously, awesome.

  116. For rugged individualists Ron Paul cultists sure do know how to organize. He got applauded even when he was completely incoherent, which was most of the time.

    I just feel sorry for most of the rest of them. In most of these cases, the presence of the delusion that they could be president is enough to disqualify them.

    1. Hope and Change!

    2. Who told you to stop sucking? It’s going down.

  117. Been looking through Google News. Apparently, journalists are incapable of discussing this debate without harping on the fact that none of these candidates have a chance. It’s quite aggravating.

    1. I know what you mean. Eevn the most obtuse can state the obvious.

  118. GJ needs to get a tailor and stop wearing his Dad’s suits.

    1. You really think suit that fits will help? Maybe his underwear is too tight.

      1. He would be able to play off the inexperience more easily. Not saying it’s a silver bullet but he doesn’t have to say anything and he already looks like he’s not up to the task.

  119. I thought Ron did pretty well.. far better than his performances in 08. Still, spend a few of those $’s on a speaking coach.

    I like Johnson but he definitely needs help with the delivery. He’s clearly not a red meat kinda guy, very laid back.

    Not sure what some peeps saw in Cain (and I discount any group picked by Lunz) – couldnt even venture what the mission should be in Afgh. Some good soundbites though.

    Sanatorium… god help us all if he ever gets it. Thought he hung himself on prescription drugs and pakistan aide. Washington pol.

    Pawlenty – that dude from SNL is gonna *love* doing him, perfect match. Can’t believe he admits that he raided the school funds and then blamed legislature for not officially changing it from borrowing to theft.

    Pawlenty def the big loser.

    1. I think the posters here are mostly second-tier libertoids. Did most of you go through the initiation rights quite recently?

  120. GO SUCK RON PAULS KOCH

  121. Watched the whole thing:

    Santorum is a holier than thou ass.

    Pawlenty is typical politician, lots of sound and little substance.

    Cain is a good speaker, and much better than Santorum or Pawlenty.

    Paul, well he is Ron Paul, I love him but I don’t think he is electable.

    Johnson was by far the best of the bunch.

    I will happily vote for either Paul or Johnson. I might vote for Cain, but I need to see more and hear more from him. I would not piss on Santorum if he was ablaze. I would piss on Pawlenty, ablaze or not.

    1. Sorry, but Johnson put in a weak performance, sadly. Also, Paul is plenty electable. He got in some great lines in that debate.

  122. I wouldn’t discount the Luntz panel just because it was Luntz. (What would be the point?? Fox News typically has a poor relationship with unsung candidates.)

    Luntz’s panel was a typical conservative South Carolina panel. Stupid me: I thought the group would be impressed with Paul, and I was genuinely surprised that Cain got such an overwhelmingly positive response (bunch of racist teabaggers, right?). I would call it an astroturf’d panel. I’d chalk it up to an anti-establishment group that is looking for tough talk. If Trump had been up there talking his obnoxious sheit, half of that Luntz panel would have been talking the Trump gospel.

    1. I *would NOT* call it an astroturf’d panel.

    2. SC

      Trump’s a baby-killin’, gun grabbin’ Yankee.

    3. If Trump had been up there talking his obnoxious sheit, half of that Luntz panel would have been talking the Trump gospel.

      But didn’t someone say the group laughed at the mention of Trump?

  123. Does Cain have any actual principles or is it mostly squishy NRO conservative traditionalism?

    1. National Review still has an official editorial policy of legalizing pot, unlike Cain.

  124. I kind of liked Cain. He is a good speaker and he has a hell raising attitude about him that will sell well.

    I am sorry Libertarians but Johnson is just boring. You can’t be a radical and also be that uninteresting. His delivery and demeanor are terrible. I don’t disagree with much he said. But he comes across as some guy you meet a business conference who keeps wanting to talk politics while everyone else wants to figure out where the best restaurants are. I really can’t see his campaign going anywhere. What is his constituency? It is not like the Ronulans are going to abandon Ron Paul to vote for him. He is too Libertarian for the SOCONs. And he is too boring to excite anyone in the middle.

    The only one worse than Johnson was Pawlenty. My God that man is awful. I am a Republican and I look at him and think “he is a typical slimebag politician”. What must anyone not a Republican think? He is about exciting as Johnson with the added bonus of having absolutely nothing of substance to say. Sad, because I didn’t know much about Pawlenty until tonight and I kind of had hopes he might be okay.

    Ron Paul reminds me of Alan Keyes. Back when Keyes would run his quixotic campaigns for President, he would get invited to the early debates. Now Keyes is kind of crazy. But you would watch the debate and he would wipe the floor with people. You would think “why are they making this smart guy talk to all these idiots”. The reason for that was that Keyes was the only one who had balls enough to actually think and give real answers to questions rather than sound bites. It is the same with Paul. I think Paul is a little nuts. But, he is the only one who actually tries to give real, substantive answers to things. By any objective intellectual standard, he wins going away. Other than Cain on a couple of points, he is the only one who actually tried.

    1. Oh and Santorum. He is Pawlenty with some good old time slimely religion added. But with Huckabe not running, unlike Johnson, he has a constituency.

      1. We ain’t got a constichency. Stokes got a constichency!

        1. It may come as a surprise to Libertarians. But you have to have voters to win an election.

          1. It is rude to rouse us from our slumbers without announcement.

            We are not your teenager!

  125. I love it when Ron Paul says for over a hundred years in this country all drugs were legal.

  126. It was good to see a presidential debate where 40% of the candidates were libertarians.

    Johnson’s performance was weak, but if you remember Paul’s first presidential debate, it was painful to watch. Paul has turned into a great debater, and I expect Johnson to improve as well over time.

    I like and admire Ron Paul, but his positions on abortion and immigration have always bothered me. I’m glad to see a libertarian candidate like Johnson who is actually “pro-choice on everything” as the slogan goes.

    1. Unless Paul wants to quit and throw his lot behind Johnson, who votes for Johnson?

    2. Paul has turned into a great debater, and I expect Johnson to improve as well over time.

      Johnson is too issue-oriented. We human beings don’t want data-points, we want stories.

      Gary, if you’re listening, here’s a pro-tip: the next time you say we’re borrowing $0.43 on the dollar to incarcerate/rebuild foreign lands/subsidize corporations/whatever, mention that we’re borrowing $0.43 on the dollar from China for these worthless causes.

      Is it a little less accurate? For sure. But a little xenophobia makes everything so much more vivid and frightening!

      1. No one cares that it is from China. The problem is what the hell does 43 cents on the dollar even mean? How about giving the numbers in an interesting way that people can understand?

        1. Only about 20% of our debt is held by China. But did you know that we get all our oil from People Who Hate Us?? Like Canada?

          1. I have never trusted Canukistan. And you will never convince me those Tim Horton doughnut shops are a front for something.

            1. Canada – America’s unruly hat

  127. I don’t know who came up with the term “Ronulons” for Paul supporters, but it is perfect. Paulites never really worked. It is too religious sounding. It sounds like some kind of order of Nuns. But Ronulons with it Trekie overtones is brilliant.

    1. I hate to admit it, but “Paultards” kinda rolls off the tongue.

      1. Paultard is too vulgar.

        1. You want vulgar? I got a million of ’em!

          1. While i prefer PaulISTA, I’ve pretty much learned to love being called a P’tard. Anybody who uses it as an insult can automatically be accused of going ad-hom from the get go.
            Yeah Paulite OTOH has way to much baggage considering Saul of Tarsus. *shiver*

  128. Speaking of Frank “Fuck you Frank” Luntz:

    Fox News and Frank Luntz caught red-handed.

    And of course the Bullshit episode.

    1. I ain’t watchin’ no more stupid videos. Nope. Not gonna do it.

  129. I have socon friends talking about Paul “being himself” and having a “foreign policy that makes me cringe.”
    Lawl.

  130. Is there anyone on the GOP who has not been bought and paid for? I doubt it lol.

    http://www.anon-toolz.at.tc

  131. http://www.oblfishfood.com/

    Found this the other day, thought it was clever gag gift.

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