Towards a Fairer, Simpler Tax System
If you pay any attention to the world of tax policy, you'll a hear pretty consistent refrain from a number of folks on both the left and the right: Broaden the base, lower the rates. In other words, tax more people in a more consistent manner, but keep the rates at which you tax low. It's not a new idea either. As Jason Fichtner and Jacob Feldmen point out in a working paper for the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, Congress passed a law in 1986—TRA86—intended to do just that.
That law reduced the effective corporate tax rate and ditched a lot of the existing code's preferential treatment. The idea was to create a (somewhat) simpler and fairer tax system. Yet as Fichtner and Feldmen write, "looking at the 2011 tax code, taxpayers would be hard pressed to find the aspects of efficiency, equity, and simplicity that were improved with passage of TRA86." The problem, they suggest, was that TRA86 left a lot of big carve outs in place, including the mortgage interest tax deduction. The paper quotes an analysis by the Tax Foundation:
First, while the legislation did close special tax shelters for select individuals—events that often became nightly news stories—the reform did little to close the many significant exemptions that inhibit overall economic growth. Also, much of what passed in 1986 to limit special tax loopholes has already crept back into the system courtesy of politicians quick to give in to whatever lobby fills their pockets.
Meanwhile, the authors note, lots of new loopholes crept into the system to replace the old ones:
One unexpected phenomenon is that most tax expenditures that were eliminated by TRA86 have not returned, but new ones have appeared. The rapid expansion of new itemized deductions suggests that the political system gravitates toward special interests and is innovative at doing so….Despite TRA86's overwhelming bipartisan support to broaden the base and lower tax rates, tax expenditures returned quickly and in even greater numbers than before TRA86.
Those end result of all those loophopes is much higher rates: Feldman and Fichter cite former Assistant Treasury Secretary John Chapoton's esimate that without so-called tax expenditures, American could reduce tax rates by 34 percent across the board.
Most everyone likes lower rates. So why haven't the reforms stuck? In the end, the basic story turns out to be pretty simple: Any tax system that appears to be somewhat malleable turns out to be a good target for lobbyists and other seeking special tax treatment. Industries and special interest groups make the bet that it's worth spending money to get special treatment, and once they've gotten what they wanted, they continue to expend money to keep that treatment. Meanwhile, other special interest groups see that their peers are successfully gaming the system and begin pushing for their own special deals and carve outs, and their arguments are bolstered by the fact that other groups are already getting preferential treatment. It doesn't take long before the entire system breaks down and we end up with a tax code that, sadly, looks like the incomprehensible maze we're stuck with today. Complexity breeds more complexity, which is why partial reforms that leave some popular deductions in place frequently don't stick. The trick, then, is not to simply minimize exemptions and carve outs but to work to get rid of them entirely.
Read Jacob Sullum on tax code complexity.
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Not to sound like a tax loving statist, they should do this broaden the base lower the rates jazz to the effin max and then pass an amendment that requires 2/3rd vote in congress to dick around with either rates or exemptions.
mitebcool
Unless we have a flat tax rate, the various tax brackets should be linked, so that raising or lowering rates for one bracket would yield the same change to all of the others. Let's end this class warfare bullshit.
They'd have to vote on that amendment in the first place, and it's doubtful Congress would agree to cut their own legs out from under them. The tax code is the best source of political favors they have in their arsenal for securing votes and/or donations.
on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments
You were saying?
Those seem like old-timey words strung randomly together and I don't understand them.
Oh man, they're like, 100 years old and stuff.
Aren't there already something like 12 states with active resolutions for a conventions?
Also, much of what passed in 1986 to limit special tax loopholes has already crept back into the system courtesy of politicians quick to give in to whatever lobby fills their pockets.
Don't you think that is the whole point? Once the "reform" ball starts rolling, special interests that have already bought their tax loopholes have to go back to DC and buy them again.
I'm tired of subsidizing homeowners mortgages. No need to remove my landlord's mortgage interest deduction. Interest is a legitimate business expense.
In the original 1913 income tax, all interest was deductible.
Why don't we all go back to the time the Spanish flu almost wiped us all out and Bolsheviks roamed the Earth while we're at it? I demand a tax as flat as they thought the planet was in your vaulted 1913!
Vaunted, even.
1913 might very well have had an arched ceiling; you don't know. You weren't there, were you?
Bolsheviks still roam the earth. Just go to any college campus.
There WAS a flat tax in 1912: zero percent.
So homeowner A will rent from Homeowner B and Homeowner B will rent from Homeowner A. Then, both get the deduction.
The problem is that everyone tries to get around things. And, they are pretty creative at doing so.
hmmm. it's almost as if I'm not really subsidizing anyone (kind of like oil company "subsidies"). the only people not getting the deduction directly or indirectly are people who own their property free and clear.
But they both get the rental income...
the deduction for interest expense on investment property and the mortgage interest deduction on your primary residence are not the same thing even though the effect is the same.
I'm not sure I follow. I was just saying that homeowner A and B each get X dollars in income from the other which cancels out the deduction for the hypothetical X dollar rent deduction.
Unless you're explaining that the X's count differently as income and expense. But since the deduction is hypothetical, probably not.
The effect is NOT the same. Interest deduction on rental property goes directly to reducing your taxable income, as long as your rental activity is not a 'passive activity'. The mortgage interest deduction is an itemized deduction and you have to surmount the standard deduction before it starts to do you any good. Hence, a person living in a state with low property tax and no income tax may get no advantage from his mortgage interest simply because the mortgage interest isn't enough to overcome the standard deduction.
Yea...
Plus, if you can get 'active landlord' (not passive) you can also deduct the depreciation of the property value minus the land value.
Had an idea earlier today...Im sure there are reasons why this would be awful, but I dont immediately see them:
1. Eliminate corporate income taxes (lots of good reasons to do this)
2. Make all corporations pass thru entities.
It would be an accounting mess for active traders, but other than that, dont see any obvious problems.
CPAs without C corporations?
If taxes were fair and simple, thousands of regulators and accountants would be put out of a job. We can't afford to endanger the fragile recovery with such a rash action.
Warty finally makes an intelligent comment.
Hopefully this is the real Tony.
Inasmuch as such a thing exists, I mean.
15% Flat tax on all individuals to fund ALL Federal spending, no exemptions, Cut spending to 90% of what that takes in, pay down the debt with the other 10%. Cut off at 30K so it won't be regressive on the layabouts. No withholding, no quarterly taxes. Move Tax Day to Monday before general election.
Eliminate the federal income tax, and have the states fund the federal government directly. Individuals would be taxed by their state government, who would be free to decide their own means of taxation.
"Eliminate the federal income tax, and have the states fund the federal government directly."
And who is going to decide how much funding each state must contribute to the federal government?
I'm tired of subsidizing small states. they each pay an equal amount.
Congress determines the total to be raised. Each state's share is Total Budget * (nRepresentatives + 2)/535.
Seems obvious. And "no taxation without representation" follows from it, of course. Lucky D.C.
To take it one step further, each federal agency sends the state a bill. If an agency gets to big, or steps outside of its role, state legislatures could tell that agency to piss off by refusing to pay the bill.
Unhappy with Obamacare? Instead of the states mounting a court challenge, they could protest the law by refusing to pay their HHS bill.
Don't feel like the Dept of Ed is up to the task? Deny them a check.
A flat rate per resident. $6k per person would be more than what the IRS brings in now.
Eliminate the federal income tax and have the states fund the federal government directly.
Fixed.
my family's Fed Income tax would actually be the about same -- little less if i get to subtract the first 30k. but i figured that in about 30 seconds vs. the several hours my actual return required. would save significantly without the payroll taxes
Just get rid of the income tax altogether and go to a national sales tax.
Just get rid of the income tax altogether and go to a national sales tax.
Fixed.
When I'm Overlord, I'm going to fund my harems and fuckpalaces with confiscatory taxes on insulin. Eat that, you defective prick.
Hey,don't let big Vince Wilfork of the New England Patriots read that as he is hosting his annual Draft day charity event for diabetes research and the world renowned Joslin Clinic, tonight at Pins, Main Street, Milford, Mass.
Warty, you do know how big a boy Vince is, don't you?
I'd buy him off with some coupons to a fuckpalace, then I'd have him kidnapped and sent to a workcamp. Overlords don't get threatened by fat men.
He is one fatman who can move.
I hear that Brady pays Vince to stay away from him and Gizelle at social gatherings as the bodacious one from Brazil has the hots for the big nose tackle.
I bet that gets you, SF and Epi jealous.
No withholding, no quarterly taxes. Move Tax Day to Monday before general election.
This is all that is needed.
There's a reason that tax day is about as far away from election day as possible.
In a perfect world, anyone who used the term "tax expenditure" in a manner indicating they genuinely meant it would get a good, swift kick in the taint.
Anyone using the term "tax expenditure" makes it clear that the believe that not taking more of the taxpayer's money is the same as the government spending money. Because, you know, the government is "allowing" you to keep it; therefore, it's the same as the government giving it to you - i.e., the government "spending" it.
+10,000
I think we should embrace this and take it to the next level.
Whenever people in hourly jobs aren't working, this is also a tax expenditure, because every hour you aren't getting overtime basically decreases the amount of tax revenue Uncle Sam receives. If your employer hires a new person instead of giving you more hours, they aren't getting overtime pay, which also hurts the government.
So, we should close that loophole by requiring that everyone work seventy-two hours a week. That is the price we pay for civilization.
I'm tired of subsidizing people's sleeping.
a good, swift kick in the taint...
from each of the 50% of the population that actually pays taxes.
"If you pay any attention to the world of tax policy, you'll a hear pretty consistent refrain from a number of folks on both the left and the right: Broaden the base, lower the rates."
I get that you're trying to stay neutral and shit, but all I hear on the left these days is "rich people aren't paying their fair share", which sounds sort of like "narrow the base, raise the rates". Although I assume the ulterior motive is actually "use class hate to raise the rates, then broaden the base".
I've met the people who enacted the flat tax in europe and was very impressed by what it accomplished. I think it's feasible it would work here.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.....ting-costs
Let's reduce spending to original, Constitutional levels, then talk taxes. Property taxes, excise taxes, and tariffs were all within federal authority, a tax on a man's labor was not, at least not in the Founder's original intent. A short search of Thomas Jefferson's quotes at Brainy Quote will give you a good taste of their mindset.
So trade isn't labor? You communist.
Would it be monomanichial of me to agree wid you?
Just don't use the phrase "monopoly on the administration of justice" and we're fine. Or if you absolutely must, at least shorten it to monadjus or something.
From a practical point of you, it would be more efficient if I took your advice. It is a long phrase and it is not the most melifluous sounding of phrases either.
But, can you blame a guy for hating monopoly, centralized power, top-down / pyramidal institutions and stuff?
I want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Franchulates.
In the original 1913 income tax, all interest was deductible.
If there is to be an income tax, I am now of the opinion total income, from any source, should be taxed at the same rate. Same for gross business revenue.
Three per cent would be plenty.
"Same for gross business revenue."
So, like a VAT, but much worse?
Clarification: total income, from any source, should be taxed: at the same rate.
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I'm tired of subsidizing people's sleeping.
I used to work (at a weekly salary) for a guy who seemed to think I was stealing money from him if I was home sleeping.
Towards a Fairer, Simpler Tax System
Be careful what you wish for, you may get it:
(You gotta admit, it's simple and fair.)
Here's a really simple tax system:
Stop taking my money.
But where will they get the money to kill brown people?
So, like a VAT, but much worse?
It would be pretty much indistinguishable from a national sales tax, but I consider it better than a VAT.
Those who want to broaden the tax base should stop pretending to be libertarians and admit to being in bed with plutocrats.