Washington Post Columnist: The Constitution Doesn't Say What It Says, and Besides It's for Crackpots
Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post says a bunch of crazy shit regarding Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)'s failed measure to get the Senate on record as saying the Constitution doesn't let Obama do what he's doing in Libya:
The motion was a petulant one, quoting the president's words from 2007: "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." First of all, that's not in the Constitution and is not a viable interpretation of the president's powers. Second, Congress doesn't get to circumscribe the powers of the president. And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief.
It's a mystery why those eight Republicans would vote to continue discussion over this. (Some of the no votes may have simply wanted to have a debate.) But the co-sponsors are a different matter. What is their excuse? If Lee, for example, wants to be an effective conservative and not regarded as a crackpot, why is he casting such a vote?….Moreover, it does cast doubt on the moniker "Constitutional conservative" when those sporting the label don't understand what the Constitution means.
Article One, Sect. 8, Clause 11, of the Constitution of these here United States, Ms. Rubin. Ms. Rubin, Article One, Sect. 8, Clause 11, of the Constitution of these here United States. I believe I'm introducing you for the first time? Please note not the slightest attempt to quote the Constitution or make any argument based on it in her article.
Tom Woods takes on at length the more sophisticated, less blatantly ridiculous arguments for unconstrained presidential warmaking powers. Yesterday I celebrated Rand Paul's failed attempt to assert some senatorial sense on the same issue.
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Stupid people shouldn't breathe.
Every tyrannical government needs some useful idiots in the media.
Second, Congress doesn't get to circumscribe the powers of the president.
O_O
Welcome to the Cult of the Presidency, baby! Both TEAMs are 100% on board, full steam ahead!
Is she a Dem? It sounded like she was a Bush-baby who was just being consistent.
I see she's been to the Ezra Klein School of Constitutional Law.
Except that a big chunk of the reason we even have a legislature is to check executive power.
At this point I'd settle for that, though I seem to recall that the legislature was originally the senior branch. I also seem to recall that we've always been at war with Eastasia. Can't be sure; better check with the Party.
Now, where'd I put my gin ration?
In theory, the relative power of Congress is immense, as the most "representative" body. In practice, they're the biggest group of pussies on the planet and will be the first to kiss Hitler's ass when he rises to power here in his cloned glory.
"I love you, my repetitious fuhrer!"
Yes, just like that.
Yeah, I've been losing mine ever since they raised it from 40 ounces to 800 milliliters a week.
You mean we've always been at war with WESTAsia, right? Unless, of course, you are saying that we are at war with Japan, China, Vietnam, Singapore, etc.
Yeah. It's not like the "necessary and proper" clause grants congress the authority to pass laws for carrying into execution "all other powers vested by this constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department of office thereof."
Love how she just says "That's not in the constitution, it's not viable."
End of story
Apparently, the statist definition of "crackpot" is "somebody who knows how to read".
^^^ THIS ^^^
"And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief."
Hey, we have to go to war with the Constitutional interpretation we have, not the interpretation we want.
excellent
Those people who want "constitutional law" are just dead enders.
And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief.
LOL'd at this. So, we're supposed to undercut only competent presidents, and blindly support the incompetent ones?
Teh Stoopid is strong with this one.
Rubin is a mainstream GOP hawk, so this is precisely what one would expect from her I think.
But it is shocking that she's a lawyer. Must not have been a very good one.
Is she the best lawyer ever?
She's specifically a Weekly Standard neocon hack.
And here I thought she was a Commentary neocon hack.
Well, yes, she writes a lot for Commentary, good point.
As life rolls on, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that one's being a lawyer says absolutely nothing about one's knowledge of the law...or anything else for that matter.
See also: police.
No, being police says a lot about one's knowledge of the law. Specifically, that they have vey little of it.
It would help it the courts hadn't ruled that ignorance of the law is only an excuse if your job is enforcing the law (sometimes at gunpoint, of course).
As life rolls on, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that one's being a lawyer says absolutely nothing about one's knowledge of the law...or anything else for that matter.
Well let me see if I can speed you up in reaching that conclusion.
I currently am a lawyer, and I can state with great certainty that a full 50% of the people I attended law school with graduated in the bottom half of the class. And I feel quite confident that you would find at least 70% of the entire class to be shockingly ignorant of fundamental principles of Constitutional law, philosophy of government, federalism, the concept of sovereignty, and the rights/powers distinction - let alone specific provisions of the Bill of Rights.
"And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief."
Jennifer Rubin is Obama's kind of "conservative". The more wars he starts, and, apparently, the more inept he is at waging them, the more immune to criticism he becomes.
Speaking of ineptitude and critics...
She's definitely the Washington Post and New York Times type of conservative, the neocon Weekly Standard type.
At least she's consistent. Most conservatives only like invading stuff when it's their guy in office. She wants to start wars no matter who it is.
depends on your definition of "most".
She claims that the 90 senators who voted against were 'the adults'. Some of them may actually be sincere (and mistaken), but I believe most of them voted against this resolution so they couldn't be held responsible for what happens in Libya. "I didn't vote for that. The President didn't ask for my advice." Avoiding your responsibilities is hardly adult behavior.
Rand forced them to go on record. one way or another.
Not quite. They simply agreed not to talk about it.
goddammit, I'm gettin' fed up with anyone who argues which side is the Adult side of a debate, or tells their opponent to grow up, calls them childish or ANY of that garbage.
Congress should be pissed every time a president does something like this. Instead, they bend over and ask for another.
Without the branches checking the other branches' powers, the concept of limited government is going to fade away. . .like it has been doing for a while.
Fade?
Dude, it's gone.
Sure the occasional case makes it to the Supreme Court, but that's just a show.
Same with this budget "debate". They're making a show over 1% of the budget. One percent.
This "shut down" is just a paid vacation for federal workers. They'll all get paid retroactively.
Contractors will get paid. Money is allocated for the contracts already.
It's just a show.
When the federal government can dictate how much water can flow through your shower head and what light bulbs you are allowed to buy, you are living under a totalitarian regime.
I hesitate to say it's gone, but I think what's left of it could easily be swept away by a convenient "crisis."
Probably all that's really holding any limitations on government is a vague resistance to some kinds of government overreach. Without that, there's nothing left. Congress allowing the executive to take over much of its legislative and most of its war powers is a big part of the problem, as is the Supreme Court generally avoiding decisions that determine that a government action is extraconstitutional.
Politics is the art of getting the masses to believe they are in charge.
You hear stupid statist fucks say "We are government" because they truly do not see the difference between society and government. The think that they're in charge all the time because they think voting makes them part of government.
There are the Party members who think that because they are part of the Party that they somehow have power when their Party is in charge.
As long as those two groups of fools are the majority then politicians can maintain the illusion that the people control the government.
But it is indeed the other way around.
"Probably all that's really holding any limitations on government is a vague resistance to some kinds of government overreach."
What limitations? Seriously.
Limitations on government are self imposed. They exist only when the person with power says "No, I don't have the power to do that."
That's Rule of Law, when the people with power answer to a higher law like the Constitution.
Rule of Man is when politicians are limited only by their imagination.
Which would you say we have?
Actually, he is right, it is gone and we do live in a totalitarian state. It's just that government does not any particular interest in you or me or what we have at this moment. Do you doubt for a moment that if they did, there would be any limit on any action they took against you or your property? Good God, it was gone the moment FDR interred Japanese Americans.
So imagine if the politicians said, sorry, we need your 401(k)'s. I suspect we'd just bend over and take it.
Not agreeing with the U.S. Gov't as a totalitarian regime, but it is one hell of a long way from a government of limited, enumerated powers.
And I agree with ProL about the convenient crisis thing. My money is that it'll be due to a mass casualty event from natives of one of these countries that we're not at war with. Add the market failure that will run in lockstep with such a tragedy and all bets are off.
Limited government, checks on power, liberty, they're habits. Those concepts don't have a life independent of our efforts to keep them. If we keep voting in people who won't follow those habits, who instead do the opposite, as ProL's examples show, we won't have them anymore.
Even a totalitarian regime needs support from a majority of the people, or there is revolution.
People like totalitarian rule because there is comfort in it.
The ones who support it actually believe they are being taken care of by their rulers.
They don't want to think, they don't want to make choices, they want their rulers to do that for them.
To them freedom means being free from responsibility and consequence as long as you follow the rules. You know, you only have to fear government if you're doing something wrong.
Liberty is uncertain and uncertainty is scary.
Some people don't want anything to do with it.
If we keep voting in people who won't follow those habits, who instead do the opposite
Who's this we that's doing the voting, and what is it that you think they have any power to vote for at this point?
Obama promised to fuck up a lot of things during his campaign, but this kind of fuck up is one that he promised not to do. It was perhaps his one redeeming virtue and yet, now he's doing it.
There is no recourse. There is no way to hold the SOB accountable.
"We" have now utterly lost any grip on real power with our votes. Not that we really had much to begin with, but it used to be enough that some of the "we" could believe.
sadyly, excellent points and irrefutable logic.
The idea of limited government is dead. The only reason the American experiment was able to be played out is because this continent was inhabited by a bunch of stone-age tribes men.
There isn't anywhere else to go. Oh yeah, there is outer space, but that outlet is way in the future, if at all.
The idea exists, but only in the minds of people who have no interest in power.
Those who seek power have different ideas.
I'd say it's more in a coma. There's clearly some vestiges of resistance in the general population, and I don't think the government could safely do something too obvious--like, say, get rid of free speech rights altogether. Rather, they just steal from us a little bit at a time to the point where there's nothing left.
Do you doubt that government would not hesitate to infringe directly on any speech that actually threatened their existence? Not speech that consisted of threatening their authority/existence, but speech that actually did those things?
I think they remain a little scared of the somnolent public. We occasionally do crazy things like vote against type or go into the streets off message to protest spending.
It's a very unhealthy parasitic relationship.
Maybe that's because "limited government" doesn't really mean anything except as code words for "lower taxes on millionaires" and "fewer costs imposed on corporations."
Goddamit! Who told Tony?! Come on now, just fess up; who gave Tony the minutes from our last meeting?
FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP
I detest government intrusion more than anyone, but there is a small degree of difference between:
When the federal government can dictate how much water can flow through your shower head and what light bulbs you are allowed to buy, you are living under a totalitarian regime.
and...
When the federal government can send you off to be killed in a concentration camp for being a Jew or torture and kill you for insulting Dear Leader (blessed be his name), you are living under a totalitarian regime.
An accusation of terrorism is enough to get put in prison for an indefinite (life?) period of time.
People are jailed for making threats against political figures, even if it is plainly obvious that the threats are empty.
The only real limitation on government power, today, is what politicians can convince people is 'necessary' for the 'public good'.
Faux pragmatism, the rule of necessity, the law of emergency, are all used to convince a supine populace that government is taking care of them, for their own good.
Thus it was necessary to create an ignorant citizenry that is far more concerned with trivial pursuits and gadgets than it was with vigilance against government usurpation.
Well... here we are. Surrounded by people who won't and/or can't read and understand the plain language of the governmental grant of power, its charter, the Constitution. Surrounded by people who let others tell them what it means, rather than just read and reflect on it themselves.
Let me check my Constitution Cliff Notes here, all seven words.
general welfare... regulate commerce... necessary and proper
Nope. Nothing specific about war or limitations on government or anything quaint like that.
Government has unlimited power to do whatever it wants.
Rule of man, not rule of law.
How dare Paul bring the Constitution into this discussion? We're at war!
Um, Mr. Doherty, you're wrong. I checked, and Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 plainly says:
"Presidents who are clearly Shiny and Awesome shall not have their decisions questioned by the Several States, nor the Congress, nor the great Unwashed Masses."
Get it right!
Clean President > Unwashed Masses
She's a neocon, however. So her motivation is not because she loves Obama, but because she wants to leave that door open for the next time Team Red gets the White House.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She has Iran in her sights. And just why does she have a hard-on for Iran - well, maybe a little country with a big influence in the Imperial Capitol.
And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief.
So the best way to deal with a less-than-ideal commander-in-chief is to allow him greater power, not less, because somehow the power will compensate for his lack of ability and...
You know what? Fuck this. I'm trying to find the rationale in an article where none exists, so I'll just call Jennifer Rubin an idiot and leave it at that.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Article One, Sect. 8, Clause 11"
Picky, picky, picky.
Pedantic even.
"And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief."
I support what Obama's doing in Libya, but that makes me want to barf.
If there were any further indication needed that the only problem some of these folks had with what the Bush Administration was doing was that he did it with a redneck accent--then this is it.
The Bush Administration's stupid defenders all said the exact same shit about opposition to the Iraq War. I remember them directing the same shit at Obama.
Same shit. He's our president and we all have to get behind him in wartime? If they can't make their case on the merits, that's about the worst fall-back position I can imagine.
N.B.: She's a Weekly Standard neocon, one of the Bush Administration's defenders.
that makes me want to barf
My ears are burning.
The motion was a petulant one, quoting the president's words from 2007: "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." First of all, that's not in the Constitution and is not a viable interpretation of the president's powers.
So, she's saying that the person who said this doesn't know the Constitution? But she endorses him having unlimited power...amazing.
What blows me away is the notion that holding a man accountable for his words is somehow childish, petulant. But completely and utterly contradicting yourself on a profound issue like war...no problem. Personally, I cannot conceive of behaving like that, and living with myself.
The real fault lies with the Congress, who believes their first duty and foremost allegience is to being reelected.
To vote against military action and be branded a "peacenik" would tar a representative with a stain of opprobrium that could never be washed off. The sting of harsh words from people who disagree with you is too much to ask any congressman to bear.
Seems to me it's more about the risk of appearing to give comfort to a loathsome enemy while young Americans are in harm's way, in order to chastise a President over what seems to be a mere technicality. Which, of course, is why it's not a mere technicality.
War can't be debated once it starts.
President can start war without debate.
Therefore, war will never be debated.
Result: more war.
Solution: No war without debate.
All of which does not contradict your larger point about re-election being the highest priority.
I've given up expecting modern journalists to understand the topic they're writing, but don't these people have editors?
Congress doesn't get to circumscribe the powers of the president
Sweet; think of all the money we'll save when we send them all home and turn the Capitol into a skate park.
Jennifer Rubin? Star of 1992's A Woman, Her Men, and Her Futon? I liked her better when she was acting.
I don't think that movie is that old...
Ah, yes. Typo. 1997.
It's a mystery why those eight Republicans would vote to continue discussion over this.
STFU HATURZ
par for the course over there at washpost.
"We're in a war."
Yeah, the government managed to get the SCOTUS to buy that argument 60 years ago, so why not keep blowing that horn?
You know who else kept lists of gun owners?
Those fucking Cuban and Russian occupiers, when the noble Swayze teamed up for the ultimate in Winning with the world's greatest warlock assassin.
Nobody puts baby in a concentration camp.
I thought they just took the lists that were already kept.
Yeah, they even specifically mentioned it as a 4473 in the film.
All my enemies.
f Lee, for example, wants to be an effective conservative and not regarded as a crackpot
Wooooooooooowoooooooooo!
Aaaaaaaaall abooooooooard teh Craaaaazy Traaaaaiin!
conservatives: against moral principles as a matter of principle
Quoting the president's own words in context from the past is "petulant"? That is unbelievable. She really does sound a lot like someone who would be comfortable in a totalitarian dictatorship.
At least she's getting shredded in the comments over there.
Rubin also had a dumb posting on Robert Gates a week or so ago. (i.e. Fire the guy? He's been trying to quit for a year now; you'd be doing him a favor)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/....._blog.html
Come on Q, just tell me what you want. I'll do whatever you it is, please stop it already. Just tell me what to do and I'll do it! I can't take anymore of this. Q, don't do this to me!
I couldn't leave this one alone. I offered my sentiment on the Post. We'll see if it gets approved.
Well, the comments over there seem consistent: she's an idiot.
"It certainly isn't the time to try, by pulling out an old quote, to make the president look foolish.:
Good Gracious! Thank God the Left never did this to President Bush, Vice President Cheney, or Donald Rumsfeld 56 billion times during 2001-2009! Our Republican could not have withstood it!
*Republic, not Republican
I know a bunch of people have quoted this already:
And third, we're in a war (several, actually), and now is not the time to undercut an already less-than-ideal commander in chief.
but, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Nobody should be allowed to make fun of our stupid president in wartime.
This is what we're up against. And she preemptively calls us the fucking crackpots.
I spent an hour last weekend debating with a neighbor who kept insisting that the Libya action was not a WAR because Congress needs to declare such, so it's all good and Constitutional because it's not a WAR. And something something NATO. We are literally approaching doublethink.
What did he think it was, if not a war? "Police action"?
Ayn Rand's essay on extremism and the art of smearing come to mind yet again.
What amazes me more is just how much traction one can get with these "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" rhetorical handwavings where you merely declare your opponent's position so outr? that no analysis or counter-argument is necessary. Seems so glaring to me, but considering that Ezra Klein and others seem to have made careers out of it, well...
Ayn Rand's essay on extremism and the art of smearing come to mind yet again.
What amazes me more is just how much traction one can get with these "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" rhetorical handwavings where you merely declare your opponent's position so outr? that no analysis or counter-argument is necessary. Seems so glaring to me, but considering that Ezra Klein and others seem to have made careers out of it, well...
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