He Was the Only One in the Room Who Was Professional Enough to Sue the DEA

Last week a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit against the Drug Enforcement Administration by Lee Paige, the DEA agent who literally shot himself in the foot with an allegedly unloaded gun while talking about firearm safety to a roomful of Florida children—right after announcing, "I'm the only one in this room professional enough…to carry this Glock 40." In a complaint he prepared on his own, Paige claimed DEA officials made him a "target of jokes, derision, ridicule, and disparaging comments," ruining his career as an undercover agent and motivational speaker, by releasing a widely viewed video of the 2004 incident. U.S. District Judge Jack Shanstrom said Paige had failed to present any evidence regarding the source of the video. Rather than celebrate a court victory for the DEA, let's just watch the video one more time.

Comments

[Glitch]

"ruining his career as an undercover agent and motivational speaker"

Pssst... you really can't be both...

[Tim]

Judging from the Rambo muscle shirt and perfectly coiffed dreds, becoming inconspicuous was not high on his priority list.

[Almanian]

Apparently he went to the Dog The Bounty Hunter School of Blending In

[Tim]

Ha! And he has some sort of scantily clad "Price is Right" model there to help him. What a galoot.

[Ska]

Does he also hold the gun perpendicular to the ground?

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Ha, maybe he thinks that would be a good "cover": "...no, man, I'm not a narc...I'm, like, the black Tony Robbins."

[tote-road]

Wouldn't a Colt 45 be more appropriate for him than a Glock 40?

[Snerf Johnson]

LOL! Excellent!

[Warty]

My favorite part of the video is that he tries to continue the demonstration with a hole in his foot. Oh, and also that he seems to think there's a Glock model 40.

[hmm]

He took his Glock 22 multiplied it by 2 and then subtracted 4!

[hmm]

Then again I'm not sure that guy can can multiply, or subtract.

[hmm]

Well he probably can only subtract numbers up to maybe 18 or so, depending on how many toes he blew off.

[Rather]

Comment of the day

[Rather]

By which I mean my own comment, not hmm's comment.

Read my blog.

[Fuck off]

Heller

[Rather]

BlogWhore 2.0 by Microsoft

Repetition Error 1013

incif immediately to prevent catastrophic failure

[Fuck off]

heller

[Rather]

BlogWhore 2.0 by Microsoft

Repetition Error 1013

incif immediately to prevent catastrophic failure

[Fuck off]

heller

[Almanian]

Having a Glock (17, For the Record?) I'm still stuck on how the hell it was loaded. The action was open initially....did he PUT a shell in? Did someone else? Everyone with a Glock *knows* you physically check the chamber after you drop the mag, cause you can't really see if there's a round in there (I use my pinky, myself).

Well, everyone *knows* that except THIS guy, I guess....I'm still all "WTF?" about this. How. Does. This. Happen. With. This. Weapon?????

[Almanian]

PS Also, he violated Rule #1 - "don't point the weapon at anything you don't want to kill"

Poor, dead toes...

[hmm]

Maybe he hated his toes?

[Almanian]

So he's a....Digitist!!!!1!

[Episiarch]

I have said this on this site many times, but you would be amazed by the number of cops who are totally gun ignorant, and only go to the range as often as is required by the department, yet still feel that they are vastly more qualified than any non-LEO. It is endemic amongst them.

Also, if you or I had done that, I would think we'd be facing some endangerment charges.

[dunphy]

i'm a firearms instructor FOR police officers and i'm no longer amazed.

there are some excellent shots in my agency, most people are mediocre, and some are pretty awful.

our union (commie socialist pinko bla bla bla) has negotiated that every officer gets one hour a month of shooting on the cloclk IF he wants to take it. less than 10% of officers take advantage of this.

we also get, again per our union contract, 2 boxes of ammo a month. less than 60% of officers take advantage of that.

[TrickyVic]

Yeah, you get the gambit.

We could fix that by making a pass/fail qualification at the range. But those commie socialist pinko union folk would probably get their panties in a wad.

[dunphy]

well, we do have a "pass/fail" thang, but the "pass" level is insanely easy.

and if you fail, you get another try, and if you fail THEN you go straight back to work. we cannot even take your gun.

you get scheduled for remedial training.

if you fail THAT, you get desk duty.

and more remedial training

until you pass

[TrickyVic]

""and if you fail, you get another try, and if you fail THEN you go straight back to work. we cannot even take your gun.""

Well you have a pass thing, obviously the fail part does not exist.

[hmm]

You solve a lot of issues by making all the tests for police forces pass fail and requiring more than a HS diploma.

Hell I'd take a force with nothing but Women's Studies degrees that can actually clear a 10K in under an hour and do 3 pull-ups. (or run a 10k for that matter) Any proficiency at firearms would just be icing on the cake.

[dunphy]

many agencies require far more than a high school diploma and have a slew of tests. many of the tests are pass/fail. others are graded.

i work with officers who have no college, AA's, BA's and BS's, MS's, several law degrees, and there's even one guy i know of with a Phd.

ime, ceteris paribus, some college (or military) makes a better officer.

one of my trainees had a MA in english lit (former teacher) and he was a breeze to teach report writing to.

firearms is one of those things that cops RARELY use (iirc, the average officer fires his gun apart from training about once every 12 yrs on the job) BUT when he does, it's very important he is competent.

it's what is referred to as "high risk/low frequency" on the matrix

what's more important is that police firearms training be realistic. as we train, so shall we perform. generally speaking, - it sux.

ex post newhall, it got better. ex post FBI florida fuckup, it got better. but it shouldn't take a heinous fuckup tragedy to get us to make our training better

[hmm]

Last I checked law enforcement hasn't broken 25% and that included the fed jobs where most positions require a 4 year or more like Secret Service, FBI, DEA and so on.

Hell every freakin' firefighter has more training than most officers. Since most departments require NREMTP (which is basically an AA) before even thinking of sending people to fire schools.

You've made the anecdotal argument about your PhD and English professor comrades here before. It doesn't stand up to the numbers put out by your own agencies.

Dear god you do love the Latin. You realize even lawyers think it's kind of esoteric and I haven't heard ceteris paribus since principles of micro econ. LOL

[dunphy]

i'm speaking about my agency. some agencies require 4 yr degrees. some don't. some have higher standards.

i didn't speak for agencies in general

which if you had any ability at reading comprehension you would've grokked.

i realize that's asking a lot from you.

my bad

[hmm]

I was aware that your comments were anecdotal, hence the anecdotal comment in the third section. I thought that would be pretty obvious to a Latin speaking super sleuth.

I understand you not getting the meaning of anecdote, I think it's Greek not Latin.

[dunphy]

i'm pretty sure the only greek you know involves well oiled young boyz.

just sayin

[hmm]

You have a problem with gay people officer Dunphy?

[hmm]

I hope you're not gay bashing, considering your nom de plume Jack Dunphy was really really good friends with Truman Capote.

Thanks for the ironic chuckle.

[dunphy]

i'm hmmm bashing. the fact that you can't realize that suggests you need more time edumacatin' yourself and less time making false statements like that the BART cop or this cop are firearms "experts"

[dunphy]

that's the best response you can come up with?

and nowhere did i imply any such thing. i said that's the only greek you know.

as long as the boys are of legal age to consent, keep on keepin' on, man

[hmm]

Nice walk back.

Not really.

Sucks when you get all pissed and show what a troglodyte you really are, doesn't it?

[dunphy]

there was no walk back

please cite where i said ANYTHING pejorative about gays.

hint: i didn't.

i said something pejorative about your knowledge of greek.

hth

[hmm]

Didn't I catch you using a similar little homophobic jab last time?

I guess you were using your little "oiled young boyz" comment to imply I was somehow an expert in Greek massage techniques. Ya, that must be it. Although I think the oiled male massages are more Turk than Greek.

[Bruce]

"Hell every freakin' firefighter has more training than most officers"

You have a cite for this? Utter bullshit IMO.

[sailshonan]

I thought of my Macro class when he said "ceteris paribus" also, and I actually took Latin for three years. My bf is also a firearms instructor at his agency, and he will agree that the quality of police shooters is poor. He also believes that all police officers should have a college degree, because too many, and he may even venture to say most, LEOs are unqualified.

[XR4L]

I work for a county engineering department and have built very nice range for the local LEOS. Watching them shoot makes me think the safest place to be is if they are aiming at you. There are some that are very good marksman maybe 5% max. The other 95% I don't even know why they have guns.

[Bruce]

That was my experience in the NYPD as it happens. I've many times completed a course of fire and watched my target - only to see additional holes put in it from shooters on either side of me. I once (along with a range officer) counted 15 holes in my target after a 12 round course of fire - 12 holes grouped tightly being mine - the others from who knows were. The average cop I saw in my 25 years had no interest in becoming proficient with his tool of the trade and could be downright scary. My last year we had a rookie playing with his weapon in the locker-room who subsequently shot himself through his hand.

[hmm]

No I wouldn't. I've run into them on several occasions. Watched one lose his membership due to demanding NFA stamps.

[BakedPenguin]

...you would be amazed by the number of cops who are totally gun ignorant...

Or not. I've heard stories about cops hanging their guns from the coat racks in toilets. Department regs forbid it, but hey. Then they grab their guns quickly, pushing the trigger against the tine, and the gun fires.

This has happened at least three times that I'm aware of. Considering the cop omerta, I suspect the actual number is in the dozens, if not hundreds.

[Dan]

Along with the rules:

Treat every gun as if it were loaded.

Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

[Pablo]

Also violated Rule 3--keep your finger off the trigger unless you intend to shoot.

[hmm]

I wonder how much work has been done to the trigger mech. Cause it doesn't look like he put enough poundage on the trigger to for it to be stock.

I'm guessing reworked trigger so this douche can talk smack about his hair trigger Glock.

[hmm]

Yes I know Glock gets railed on for light trigger pull, but jesus it isn't that fucking light.

[dunphy]

two words: user error

it aint the glock's fault.

[hmm]

No shit. Have any more totally awesome insights?

Your ability to state the obvious is only surpassed by your superior skill in using Latin phrases.

[dunphy]

your ability to falsely post is surpassed only by your bigotry.

hth

[hmm]

falsely post?

I assure you, that post is a genuine 100% tried and true Reason H&R post. If you want I will try and get one of the squirrels at Reason's fortress of Leather and Crappy Ties to certify it as a Reason H&R post.

[dunphy]

when you develop some intellectual integriy and admit that your (now in two seperate threads) claims about cops being experts in firearms are false, get back to me.

it;s a falsehood, and at this point, since you clearly should know it, it's an ethical thing

iow, you are lying. you know it

either that or support your claim that cops (not a few individual cops with specialized training, but cops IN GENERAL - such as the BART cop, or this cop) are trained to be experts in firearms.

cops receive nowhere NEAR enough training to be experts.

most cops i know shoot exactly twice a year. 100 rds a year.

they receive some decent famiiliarization with firearms training in the academy, as well.

that's it.

[hmm]

Jesus, are you still hung up on the semantics of expert. Since this semantic argument seems to be all you have lets use the tried and true internet method of good old Merriam Webster, who says:

Definition of EXPERT
1
obsolete : experienced
2
: having, involving, or displaying special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience

well, semantics problem solved. Onto why in the fuck are we arming these people if they are not given sufficient "special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience" to carry a firearm and use deadly force. Let me guess, it's budget oriented.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Beats me. I have three Glocks myself (the .45 ACP models, the 21, the 30, and the 36). I've owned and carried them for years with nary a problem--they're simple as all get out. That's their strength.

[Tim]

Obviously you're not as professional as Agent Paige. Whom the law would allow on a plane with that "Glock forty".

[Ska]

When you're an undercover gangsta glocks come in 2 models - the glock 9 and the glock 40.

[Bruce]

Can we maybe assume this moron was referring to the Glocks caliber? As in 40 S&W?

[hmm]

Do you have a 21SF, if so like it?

[Pablo]

Only thing I can think of is that he opened the action and locked back the slide but neglected to make sure the magazine was empty. When he closed the slide it chambered a round. Glocks are easy to shoot so they are unforgiving of incompetent handling.

[kmw]

Huh? I've shot a Glock 17 for years and I assure you that it is quite easy to see if there is a round in the chamber when the slide is open. (I just tried it in my Glock 17 and I could easily visually tell when a round was in the chamber and so could my son.)

[Invisible Toes]

Perhaps he got in confused with the 40 he drank before school.

[cynical]

I was thinking the same thing...

[Other Mainer]

There are Glocks in .40 you twit.

[R]

But there is no "Glock 40". The Glocks that are chambered in .40S&W are known as the Glock 22 (which is the full sized model), the Glock 23 (the compact model), the Glock 24 (competition version of the Glock 22; now discontinued), the Glock 27 (a subcompact model), and the Glock 35 (a competition gun that replaced the Glock 24).

Currently, the highest numerical Glock model number is the Glock 39, which is chambered in .45GAP.

The bullet a gun is chambered in is different than its model number. You twit.

[A. Freeman]

This is one of my favorite firearms safety videos. I like the statement regarding "I'm the only one professional enough....." just before the bang.

[Tim]

More proof that God has a sense of humor.

[TrickyVic]

I think God was laughing at the DEA's ability to hire.

[Bruce]

DEA v2 is the most incompetent bunch of cowboys I have ever seen. Early DEA agents were formerly cops - great ones in my opinion. Naturally, they were on retirement track and replaced by these young cowboys - like those seen at Waco wearing POLICE on their jackets and such. Clue - feds are not POLICE OFFICERS to any cop in the nation. They use that to legitimize themselves as a agency.

[TrickyVic]

He should have been charged with numerous counts of endangering the welfare of a minor.

[TrickyVic]

""let's just watch the video one more time.""

One more time? Come on it's like a Lay's potato chip. Bet ya can't watch it just once.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I always like to link gun-control advocates to it; you know, the ones who say that only law enforcement officers are sufficiently intelligent and responsible to have a gun.

[Tim]

Reason needs to run this thing at regular intervals.

[hmm]

The worst part is the adults in the room didn't run his ass off. They let him continue. The kids were right to freak the fuck out when the moron called for a rifle.

[TrickyVic]

""The worst part is the adults in the room didn't run his ass off. ""

He's an armed government agent, they trust him no matter how much he screws up.

[Tim]

They didn't want to be called racists.

[hmm]

I don't care if your Black Jesus, you fire a round in a room full of kids and your ass needs to go.

[Almanian]

"Black Jesus" = pop out my nose...

[Jeffersonian]

You obviously are not a viewer of the classic television show, "Worldwide Magazine" with the incomparable, and late, Pete Parisi. Black Jesus was a regular on the show.

[Tim]

(spit take)

[hmm]

wow, lets ignore the you are contraction fail.

[Bruce]

You really are a hyper judgmental SOB, aren't you.

[PIRS]

"they trust him no matter how much he screws up."

Sounds like the Obama fans, they trust him no matter how many rights he violates.

[Two Minutes Hate]

Yeah, well this guy was part of Bush's DEA, note the year. Besides, Obama is just an extension of the Bush admin. Why do you have a problem with Bush?

[Mo]

Would you mess with him? He's already crazy enough to shoot himself.

[Aresen]

*sigh*

It would have been better if he shot himself in the balls.

[Ska]

I'm just asking for some Darwinian justice here.

[TrickyVic]

I wonder if the school opted for this instead of the NRA Eddie Eagle program.

[Tim]

Too bad he walks off screen, I would guess he locked the slide back but forgot to remove the magazine. Thankfully he pulled the trigger, otherwise he might have handed it off for the kids to pass around.

[Almanian]

Yeah, I assumed he'd dropped the mag, cause otherwise he'd have had to manually keep the action open.

I'm baffled. WTF, really? What a maroon...

PS And why WAS his finger on the trigger? Ever? Rule #3 - "Don't put your finger on the trigger till you're ready to fire the weapon." Shit, this guy violated ALL the rules!

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Another rule he blew was one that was heavily emphasized when I got my NRA Instructor certs: no live ammo in the classroom. You use dummy rounds to demonstrate loading/unloading.

[Tim]

Rule 16: Don't video yourself fucking up.

[Tim]

Rule 16: Don't video yourself fucking up.

[Tim]

Heh. Sorry about the double tap-it went off by accident...

[TrickyVic]

Shit, I thought that would be #2, right after #1 don't fuck up.

Eddie Eagle this guy is not.

[dunphy]

the reason his finger is on the trigger is--- he is a fucking moron

[Tim]

To be fair there's more than a whiff of "pompous ass" too, but hell yes on the moron.

[Almanian]

Well, DUH! My dad taught me 2:

1) Don't point the gun at anything you don't want to kill
2) the gun is ALWAYS loaded

Learned the other two recently:

3) Finger OFF the trigger till you're ready to shoot (makes good sense)
4) Make sure what's beyond your target (in case the bullet goes through...no collateral damage)

He pretty much blew all of it, didn't he?

[TrickyVic]

That little piggy isn't going to the market anymore.

[Tim]

+1

[Almanian]

+lulz!

[Rather]

+

[+]

+

[hmm]

PIGGY DOWN!! PIGGY DOWN!!

[Chris Mallory]

I had a piggy try to tell me that "officer safety" trumped all safe gun handling rules. So they didn't need to properly identify their targets first. Knowing what was behind the target didn't even cross his mind.

[dunphy]

he was of course - wrong.

the only rule that needs to be understood a little differently in ACTUAL shooting scenarios (vs. range stuff) is the safe backstop thing.

there is rarely a 100% safe backstop in a real world shooting, whether a guy in his own home or a cop or guy on the street.

in those cases, the safety of the backstop must be weighed against the threat.

for example shooting one guy standing in front of an innocent crowd - not usually good.

but it is rare in a real shooting that you will have a perfect backstop

in firearms TRAINING, you must have one

[XR4L]

The floor was a good backstop.

[Tim]

He'll always be aware of where his foot is from now on.

[R C Dean]

Last week a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit against the Drug Enforcement Administration by Lee Paige,

Up to this point, I was sad. I was having a hard time imagining a lawsuit against the DEA that I wouldn't want to go forward.

the DEA agent who literally shot himself in the foot with an allegedly unloaded gun

This part made me happy again.

[Tim]

If this demonstrates the high standards of the DEA, really, there's NO HOPE for the TSA.

[Almanian]

I think there's high hope the TSA can stoop even lower.

Oh, that's no what you meant....

[TrickyVic]

The TSA couldn't spot that weapon if it was the only thing in a briefcase.

[Chupacabra]

But they could find it if it were in a 14 year old girl's vagina.

[Invisible Finger]

Given enough time, they'll lose that skill too.

[Rather]

To be fair to the TSA, neither could most of the commenters

[Jeffersonian]

Comedy gold. You couldn't have written a funnier scene.

[Tim]

The Estate of Peter Sellers should be suing him.

[Jeffersonian]

All he needed to cap it all off was an Asian dude to jump out of a locker in a screaming kung-fu attack and I woulda fallen off my chair laughing.

[Almanian]

It's rather Fire Marshal Bill-esque, the more I think about it.

"LEMME SHOW YA SOMETHIN'!!!!!11!"

[sage]

ruining his career as an undercover agent and motivational speaker,

Oh, I'm motivated...to stay the hell away from him.

[TrickyVic]

He can talk about living life in a van down by the river.

[Shocked]

LOL

[Tim]

Jane: I've heard police work is dangerous.
Frank: It is. That's why I carry a big gun.
Jane: Aren't you afraid it might go off accidentally?
Frank: I used to have that problem.
Jane: What did you do about it?
Frank: I just think about baseball.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

This is also an indictment of the judgement of his superiors. If I were picking somebody to give a gun safety lecture to a roomful of children, I would choose an experienced firearms instructor. If his boss actually thought that he was qualified for this duty, then the boss is even stupider than he is.

[Tim]

Ed: That's no way for a man to die.
Frank: No... you're right, Ed. A parachute not opening... that's a way to die. Getting caught in the gears of a combine... having your nuts bit off by a Laplander, that's the way I wanna go!
Wilma Nordberg: [cries] Oh... Frank. This is terrible!
Ed: Don't you worry, Wilma. Your husband is going to be alright. Don't you worry about anything. Just think positive. Never let a doubt enter your mind.
Frank: He's right, Wilma. But I wouldn't wait until the last minute to fill out those organ donor cards.
[Wilma cries again]
Ed: What I'm trying to say is that, Wilma, as soon as Nordberg is better, he's welcome back at Police Squad.
Frank: ...Unless he's a drooling vegetable. But I think that's only common sense.
[Wilma cries again]

[omg]

So lets say I wasn't a DEA agent or any other sort of government goon and I had an ND like that in a room full of kids. I think I would be arrested immediately, I would have all my guns hauled away and crushed, and I would have gone up against a slew of charges. And this guy is complaining about losing his job?

[SFC B]

As a Soldier, if I had a ND like that I'd have my career ended. And that would be if I popped a round off into a firing barrel.

There isn't much I'm sure about in life, but I'm 100% positive if a safety instructor from the NRA shot himself in the foot with an unloaded gun in a room full of children he'd be facing serious criminal fines if not jail time.

[dunphy]

i love these "i'm 100% sure" posts based on... nothing.

this is a common theme. they are often wrong, or at a minimum unsupported.

i've seen prosecutors dump MUCH stronger cases than this. i had a guy (no, not a cop) who i cited for firing his gun INTO the air 2 times because he saw an episode of mythbusters that said it wasn't really that dangerous.

no charges...

[cynical]

Well the DA's golf buddies too, that goes without saying.

[TrickyVic]

When you have a case where a guy fired a live round in a closed room with children present, get back to us.

[dunphy]

i will, with the understanding that he was invited to be there, and invited to do a class on firearms safety.

those are relevant.

imo, it's clearly negligence. whether it's CRIMINAL negligence is another question.

and whether the child endangerment statutes in that state require only criminal negligence from a NONcaregiver is another question.

[hmm]

Or he's a fucking cop and, of course, there is a different set of rules for him.

Seriously, an expert firing a round into a floor in an enclosed space less than 10 feet from a child, anyone but a cop would be charged.

[dunphy]

he's not an "expert". but of course i'm used to you making unsupported assertions. as a police firearms instructor, i can tell you that the VAST majority of LEO's aint anything close to an "expert" and this guy CLEARLY isn't.

watch the video

res ipsa loquitur

i know how much you love latin

here's some more

tua mater meritrix sepelunque est

[hmm]

So we have DEA agents who are not experts in the firearms they handle doing public discourse events on firearms safety.

Okay you got me there. That is quit plausible.

Did that Latin comment get you?

[dunphy]

oh also, i believe it was you (it was somebody here.... and they were a moron, hence I am assuming it was you) that i had to skool all the way back on the BART manslaughter case.

back then, you (or whomever it was) made the same stupid assumption - that the cop was an "expert" in firearms which is laughable, and thus should be held to that standard in assessing culpability

balko had it right in that case, and you - as usual - had it wrong.

so, again, the unfounded assumption is made - he's an "expert"

at least you are consistently stupid.

it's the hobgoblin of your little mind.

hth

[hmm]

You are the expert at skooling.

You're argument was based on not having enough money to train officers. (sorry, I forgot, you didn't have the budget to train your officers) Why are we arming people who aren't firearms experts, oh great skooler of the poor and unwise public?

What no Latin in that last response?

I missed you too.

[hmm]

You sure you don't post on AR15? I swear I've trolled seen you there.

[dunphy]

i don't even know what that is . i assume a website. since one can't post on a firearm.

regardless, your troll fu is weak. but amusing.

[dunphy]

my argument was that you made a false statement, that you don't have the intellectual integrity to retract.

cops are not (in general) firearms "experts"

you claimed they were. you were skooled, and you are still too childish to admit your error

and you are STILL making it.

i suggest a mea culpa on your part is in order. there, i gave you some more latin.

the reason i learned it was that it helps clarity of thought.

give it a try.

[hmm]

So, why are we arming people and giving them a license to use deadly force with firearms if they are not experts?

I thought you learned Latin in high school? You were seeking clarity of thought in high school? I was trying to get laid and stoned.

[dunphy]

first of all, we hold cops to a higher standard than noncops, when it comes to being armed (at least in my state) and cops have generally more restrictive rules on deadly force as well.

i am not aware of any nation on earth that requires cops to be "experts" in firearms before they are put on the street. maybe there is one, but i am not aware of it.

frankly, that would be an unnecessary standard.

we can improve training, and we should. and god knows we have (again pre newhall pre fbi fuckup it was much worse) but the idea that the average cop needs to be an expert in firearms is not supported by anything i have seen.

cops have to have a very diverse skill set and knowledge base.

some cops in very specialized positions are required to obtain true "expert " level knowledge. i've been recognized as an expert in two areas and as a national level strength athlete/coach could probably be considered an expert in that too.

but some of the best cops are simply cops that have a talent, a strong ethical code, a good work ethic, and a sense of dignity and compassion. that's what is needed.

[hmm]

I don't know how to break this to you. It's just a job. A job that requires less "talent" than a vast number of other jobs. A job that requires the same work ethic, ethical code, same dignity, same sense of compassion as a many others.

Thank you for the excellent, even if unintended, insight into how highly at least one cop thinks of himself. It's truly dizzying how much of your own bullshit you seem to buy into. The superior or even pseudo warrior class self image is almost sad.

[hmm]

If this job requires such a high ethics standard (including work ethic) why are so few officers not taking the free of charge resources provided to better or maintain their skills relevant to one aspect of their profession? (as you mentioned earlier very few use their allowed rounds and range time) Seems like such deeply ethical and duty bound people would maintain not only their mental acumen and abilities by having the majority pursuing some sort of higher education in their field, but most definitely they would want to at least maintain, if not improve, their physical and physically related faculties relating to their profession.

[hmm]

Oddly there sure is a booming business in triple x and above utility belts. I was thinking of inventing a fat roll displacing device so the really fat fucking cops could still unholster their pistol in under 5 seconds. But I don't think most officers even have to Tueller Drill, so I'm guessing the market would be too small to make a profit.

[TrickyVic]

""first of all, we hold cops to a higher standard than noncops, when it comes to being armed (at least in my state) and cops have generally more restrictive rules on deadly force as well.""

Does you state have CCW permits, and are there exams for the permit and does the process look like,

""and if you fail, you get another try, and if you fail THEN you go straight back to work. we cannot even take your gun.

you get scheduled for remedial training.

if you fail THAT, you get desk duty.

and more remedial training

until you pass""

[TrickyVic]

""but some of the best cops are simply cops that have a talent, a strong ethical code, a good work ethic, and a sense of dignity and compassion. that's what is needed.""

I'll take that over firearms expert anyday. A cop that knows how to handle situations may never need to draw his sidearm. But of course if he/she did, we would want them to be well qualified.

[Bruce]

Oh I get it now ... hmmm is another of the typically Reason cop haters. No further discussion required, thanks very much. Get a ticket once you didn't (of course) think you deserved, hmmm?

[SFC B]

"Some Guy firing into the air" != DEA Agent discharging a hand gun in a classroom full of innocent bystanders, including children.

He didn't go to jail. He wasn't cited for any number of possible violations. He kept his job until (heck, is he still with the DEA?) he outed himself and filed a lawsuit.

I never would have thought I'd see the day when the Army would have stricter rules of engagement than the police, AND would more severely punish people who negligently discharge their weapon.

I know Soldier who have lost pay and rank for having a ND into a clearing barrel with blank ammo.

18 year olds with three weeks of training with firearms are held to a higher standard when it comes to weapon discipline than a 45 year old veteran DEA agent. And you're OKAY with that? Hell, you're defending it!

[Abdul]

I did an internship with the Philly DA. We had a case where officers saw a guy fire a gun into the air on New Year's, and arrested him for reckless endangerment. The judge dropped the case because he didn't believe firing a gun in the air amouned to reckless endangerment.

Said the cop on the way out of the courtroom "Yeah, because the bullets stay up there."

[TrickyVic]

""and I would have gone up against a slew of charges.""

Yeah, including but not limited to a count of endagering the welfare of a minor for each kid in the room.

[Invisible Finger]

You can't parade a dumbass yo in front of an audience and expect people to think of him as anything other than a dumbass yo.

[Almanian]

Yo-ist!!! I think?

[Almanian]

Yo-ist!!! I think?

[NAL]

Affirmative Action strikes again.

[dunphy]

considering that he conducted a "public demonstration" iow in front of a class of kids, imo his lawsuit for people disseminating his public demonstration is pretty silly.

i have done a # of presentations in front of kids. never shot myself... yet

regardless, i shouldn't have standing to sue if somebody recorded and disseminated it.

it's pretty absurd.

of course the "star wars" kid's parents sued for that one, too

[ed reformer]

why the fuck was that guys in a school in front of kids? What kind of parents woudl allow that? They should have worked to fire the superintendent, the principal, and the teacher for making such an idiodic decision.

[dunphy]

i think cops routinely in school (a la DARE program) has been a mistake. simply put, it's not needed and it changes the school environment.

i think the data is pretty clear that DARE doesn't really work anyway.

but this whole concept of "school resource officers" is overdone.

[hmm]

It's kind of scary that the DEA demanded the tape and removed the incriminating portion. Like I said before, LEO gets their own set of rules.

[Tim]

There is no excuse, none for bringing a loaded gun into a children's classroom and then firing it. None.
He also had a machine gun, like that was necessary.
"Kids if you find an automatic weapon be sure not to touch it."

[JeremyR]

He's obviously like a lot of cops - on a big ego trip. "I'm a super badass cop, look at all my cool guns that only super badass cops like me can have, because we are super badass."

Anyway, this does show why I am not a fan of glocks. No safety and will fire with no magazine and a round in the chamber.

But hey, they are easy to shoot and have a huge magazine, so they are perfect for the spray and pray method used by many cops.

[Grizzlyman]

"Pride goes before a fall," or before you plug yourself in the leg after arrogantly set yourself apart as better than everyone else in the room. How's the leg, Bozo?

[Michael Chaney]

One thing to keep in mind is that the guy does have a somewhat valid claim. The person who shot the video turned it over to the DEA without making a copy (people never learn). The DEA gave it back to them sometime later, but with the part in the video above erased. It was someone within the DEA that then released the video to the public via youtube.

We can make fun of the guy, and he certainly deserves it. But the DEA leadership should also be very concerned that 1. someone destroyed the original copy and 2. that someone released the video that someone else was evidently trying to hide. This should be investigated.

I don't think Paige deserves much if any compensation, but I do think the DEA leadership should be very concerned about this incident and the subsequent handling of it.

[Some Guy]

Concerned that it was released? That should be the opening clip to every firearm safety video.

[Fearsome Tycoon]

I've never heard anyone get their undies in a bunch because someone stated the gun's caliber instead of its model number. I mean, I've never heard anyone say, "You fool! That's a Remington Model 511. Why did you say Remington .22?" Is this some snobby thing that Glock fans do?

[annoyed]

During a 2 year stay in a military police company I saw a total of 4 uds. One into the clearing barrel and two into the ground during holstering (finger on the trigger, safety off on then issue 1911s). Those resulted in blown out holsters. The last was an action open, mag in gun dropfire when the slide was shut (trashed the lightbar on the jeep). While these events resulted in disciplinary action,they were not the extreme sanctions that were related in comments. Nod to jeremy r; I won't own a Glock for the same reasons mentioned; however you can (or at least could) get a mod that was Glock ok'd to add an external saftey for any model Glock. My big objection to the "safe action" Glock is that they are like a revolver; i.e. "point gun, pull trigger". Not good if your firearm gets grabbed. An exterior safety can get you up to 15 seconds to: get a backup gun, use a disarming move, or, failing either of those, run really far away

[gao xia en]

Off the piggies!

[M.G. Miller]

As a comedian his timing is right on. As a professional, handling a firearm, well lets just say the world lost one very good comedian when he took a wrong turn and went for a career in law enforcement. Frankly he needs special ed. in gun handling.

["I AM THE LAW"]

Mr. Paige must be a plant by the "more-people-shoot-themselves-than-actually-defend-themselves" crowd. On the upside, he's proof that the DEA can "talk and shoot gun at the same time".

[Dregs]

Why, when watching this video, could I not shake the feeling that it was a staged allegory of what a McCain presidency would have been like?

"Step away from the button! I, John McCain, am the only one qualified to press it, as I will now demonstrate."

[M.G. Miller]

Can you believe this clown wants compensated for being incompetant, yea right. I shot myself so gimme some money and some punitive damage, oh sure. It's only going to get worse, that is the scary part.