Did Freedom Win?
Shrinking the government means slashing government spending
What a surprise! Everyone predicted a Republican resurgence. Instead, voters shocked pundits by strengthening the Democratic majority in Congress. President Obama called the result "a resounding confirmation of my legislative achievements." Democrats quickly introduced legislation to add a public option to Obamacare; a second, larger "stimulus" bill; a Paycheck Fairness Act; and new card-check and cap-and-trade bills.
OK, I assume that didn't happen. I write this on Election Day. Polls haven't closed. It might have happened.
Please tell me it didn't.
This was to be the year of the Tea Party triumph. As a libertarian, I so want to believe that the Tea Party marks the beginning a comeback for small government.
But I'm probably deluding myself. I know that big government usually wins. Remember the last time the Republicans took power? They promised fiscal responsibility, and for six of George W. Bush's eight years, his party controlled Congress. What did we have to show for it?
Federal spending increased by 54 percent. That's more than any president in the last 50 years. Much more than the 12 percent increase under Bill Clinton, and it even beat the 36 percent increase under big spender Lyndon Johnson. The number of subsidy programs grew 30 percent, and the regulatory budget grew 70 percent. The private sector shrank, while the government sector grew by 1.6 million jobs.
Bush and the GOP-controlled Congress created a prescription drug entitlement, the biggest entitlement expansion since Medicare. At one point, he nearly tripled the Department of Education budget.
Republicans want another chance, but any sensible person would be skeptical. We saw what happened when Republicans got a taste of power, and it wasn't pretty. Why should we believe it wouldn't happen again? Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), likely the next chair of the House Education Committee, has already said that he's not going to abolish the Department of Education.
Republicans anticipated skepticism and tried to address it with the Pledge for America, an echo of the 1994 Contract With America. But the Pledge is modest. It promises no cuts in Medicare, Social Security, or the military. That's where most of the money is. Those programs account for 60 percent of the budget.
Their reluctance to call for entitlement cuts is politically understandable: Older people vote and don't like the prospect of Medicare cuts. But taking Medicare off the budget-cutting agenda forsakes one's credibility as a fiscal hawk. Medicare faces $36 trillion in unfunded promises. Social Security adds $4.3 trillion. As Shikha Dalmia writes in Forbes, "By 2052, Uncle Sam's three entitlement programs—Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid—will consume all federal tax revenues, leaving nothing for government's core, constitutional functions."
OK, congressmen and would-be congressmen are just politicians. But the Tea Party is supposed to be different. It stands for fiscal responsibility, spending cuts, and deficit reduction. A New York Times poll found that 92 percent of tea partiers said they would rather have a "smaller government providing fewer services" than a "bigger government providing more services."
That's encouraging. But when it comes to specifics, the results aren't as good. The poll found that 62 percent thought "the benefits from government programs such as Social Security and Medicare are worth the costs." A Bloomberg poll found that most Tea Partiers "want more drug benefits for Medicare patients." And when was the last time you heard tea partiers complaining about the exploding military budget?
Strangely, in other questions, Tea Partiers did seem willing to accept cuts in domestic entitlement programs if it meant smaller government. The contradictory answers don't bode well for the time when lobbyists for well-organized special interests mount their passionate attacks against cuts.
You just cannot be committed to cutting government if you would leave two of the costliest programs intact.
It's exciting to know that by the time you read this, the Republicans will have probably retaken the House. Divided government historically spends less than governments under one-party control. But if the people who most loudly demand smaller government can't deliver a clear message on the biggest sources of government spending, the fiscal future of the country is in trouble.
John Stossel is host of Stossel on the Fox Business Network. He's the author of Give Me a Break and of Myth, Lies, and Downright Stupidity. To find out more about John Stossel, visit his site at johnstossel.com.
COPYRIGHT 2010 BY JFS PRODUCTIONS, INC.
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ditto
[The Pledge to America] promises no cuts in Medicare, Social Security, or the military. That's where most of the money is. Those programs account for 60 percent of the budget.
OK, OK, we'll eliminate everything else.
I attended several early Tea Party events where some of my fellow citizen said "Right On!" when I said we need to get rid of the Education and Energy Departments and stop Obamacare. But eyebrows were raised when I said we need to also get rid of the FCC, DEA, BATF just to name a few federal agencies. My calling for our withdrawal from Iraq, Afghanistan, and the United Nations also got mixed reactions.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
That's actually an interesting idea. I have a lot of friends who would love to be able to buy a case of beer and a box of rifle shells under one roof.
And these friends have never heard of Wal-Mart?
Wal-Mart's not a convenience store. You have to deal with parking lot traffic and wait in line sandwiched in between two fat mothers and their screaming bastard children.
But you didn't mention a convenience store, Paul did. You just said you have a lot of friends who would love to be able to buy a case of beer and a box of rifle shells under one roof.
Well, that's Wal-mart. Not because of any BATF, but because it isn't economically feasible for most convenience stores to also carry firearms/ammunition. However, if you go out into the country, you can find rural mom & pop gas stations with stores that not only carry beer, ammo, and sometimes guns, but also live bait, current DVDs(and 'racy' ones in the back!) and most of what a convenience store carries. In fact, I believe those stores are the model on which convenience stores are based.
There is no such thing as BATF. It is now the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms AND Explosives. More fun... under one roof...
Don't forget the lottery tickets!
And hookers.. good ones.
There are markets in rural Western and Central New York where you are able to do just that. And fill your tank with gasoline as well. Not only rifle ammo, but shotgun and pistol ammo as well.
Too bad my home state has an unnatural fascination with Progressive Demoncraps as well.
I know this is a bumper sticker of a comment, but it's still so true.
A drive-by, er... drive through convenience store.
That's where the rubber meets the road in my opinion. It's like asking a household to sell their luxury car and house that they absolutely can't afford, then to rent an inexpensive apartment, buy a used, inexpensive car, and live modestly for a while in order to rebuild their financial lives. Most everybody agrees that having a huge pile of debt around is dumb, particularly once the payments become so high that they can't buy food, but they'll come up with all kinds of rationalizations as to why it's not a good idea right now. Getting rid of education and energy is like going out to eat one night less per week. It doesn't change much one way or another.
What has education spending got us?
Can anyone honestly claim that Californians, on average, are better educated than West Virginians?
"Can anyone honestly claim that Californians, on average, are better educated than West Virginians?"
Just check the CA election results for confirmation of your point.
They are pretty much the same as the WV election results.
Every little bit helps. That's 10-15 dollars back in your pocket every week. You'd be amazed at how much difference that can make.
My 87 year old mother just got a hip-replacement. Can ya loan her 10-15 bucks to pay for that?
+1
Keep saying it. The more people think about it the more they will realize that you are right.
They reproduce too quickly. Just give up and smoke a bowl.
+1
Did you see Texas gov Rick Perry on the Today show (OK thats my junk food for the day) this morning? He was talking about his new book and went on and on about smaller govt. and fiscal responsibility. Matt Lauer then asked him what should be cut and all he could come up with was something vague about "earmarks," as if that would do anything meaningful. At least the mainstream media is calling Republicans on their bullshit. I wish they would do the same to Democrats regarding torture, Iraquistan, state secrets, etc.
When does the mainstream media call Democrats on any of their bullshit?
That's what FOX News is for.
Of course that's all he can come up with. Why, Texas is a prime fucking example of how a "limited, untintrusive government" should work, right? I mean, we don't have stupid laws like requiring HPV vaccines for 6th graders or banning dropouts from having a drivers license .
He's a minarchists wet dream alright..
Considering they're kinda "out there" from a mainstream point of view, a mixed reaction sounds promising to me. If you backed those statements up with how wasteful and anti-liberty those organizations were you might've won some converts.
Why do I suspect that the only tea party events you 'attended' were the ones you visited vicariously via Weigel's Post column?
The FCC and BATF are not agencies anyone loves. Tea Partiers like guns, alcohol and tobacco. And the FCC is all fairness doctrine, so why would Tea Partiers want either?
If you actually were at a tea party event, and 'eyebrows were raised' at you, maybe it's because you wouldn't get the message that they're for eliminating a whole lot of government agencies and kept spitting out alphabet soup agencies long after the people around you thought they'd made themselves clear.
I wonder what all those people who agreed with simply getting rid of the DOE want to do with the nukes. Those are maintained on the DOE's budget ...
Yep. We want to disarm. If only there were a department in the federal government that handled weapons, along with maybe soldiers and sailors as well. Yes, without DOE we are defenseless.
You'll have to pry the Medicare card from my cold dead fingers.
That can be arranged.
Paul doesn't care about old people.
Keep the government out of my Medicare!!!
lol
No.
Next story.
Time to update your blog, Paul. It's not 2008.
Don't be hatin'.
This is correct, but spending less does not mean cutting spending, necessarily (except in statist-speak); it can mean simply slowing down the spending increase, which is like taking 20 bucks out of your credit card instead of 50 - you still owe money, you haven't cut anything!
Medicaid fraud seems to get the least attention although defense spending probably takes the lion's share. $726 billion and a convenient (rider?) to eliminate Don't Ask Don't Tell in order to deflect attention from the $726 billion part. I don't count on the Republican majority to change either one.
Now that the R's are on the rise, it's good to see Stossel skewering them. I look forward to years of 'Republicans do the devils bidding' articles from John.
BTW who can see FBN. We upgraded to Dish Network Top 200 and still don't get it.
I have it on DirecTV.
I get it on FIOS. Definitely a more libertarian bent to it than FN.
I just figured it for a public access channel in Cleveland
Comcast in Portland carries it.
BTW who can see FBN. We upgraded to Dish Network Top 200 and still don't get it.
This is why we need Net Neutrality.
When I first started to look at some of the verities of local tea parties, here in Western New York, I noticed that several of them were very much social conservatives and not libertarian. Many tea party members really are for large, intrusive government...they just want it doing it socially from a conservative point of view.
I think you will see a split in the congressional delegation as social conservatives and libertarian leaning politicians start knocking heads.
I became less and less associated from local tea party events here when I got the vibe they were moving away from advocating small government and started inviting Islamaphobes and Gay Bashers as their guest speakers.
Sarah Palin didn't do it for ya?
I haven't been to any tea party rallies, but the fact that she is always featured as a special guest speaker turned me off immediately.
She isnt always.
Move over NIMBY, let's welcome NME (not my entitlement)
The Republicans promising lower taxes and less government
are like
Lucy van Pelt promising not to pull the football out from under Charlie Brown's foot.
This
Peculiar thing about this Pledge to America....it was never notarized.
YES YES YES YES YES! THANK YOU JOHN STOSSEL! What this country needs right now are libertarians and republicans willing to stand up to the tea party's hypocrisy and intolerance. Thank you for your words.
The Republicans have been mind-numbingly disingenuous about all this.
As in, hey, let's run an election on cutting taxes (popular!), cutting spending (popular!), but keeping defense and entitlements where they are (popular!).
Does it all go together? Who cares! It works!
How is this different from you want other than diametrically opposed. Wouldn't your wish list just be a mirror image of theirs i.e. raising taxes, raising spending, cutting defense?
You would also not want to cut entitlements right? Since you are in favor of creating a new entitlement (obamacare) it would seem unlikely that you want to cut existing ones?
Re: Tony,
That's what government types do, Tony - they lie and cheat to win votes. I thought you loved government.
He loved government up until November 2nd.
Now government is an evil tool of oppression.
This will be the true test of the tea parties. Will they fade back into the woodwork? Or will they continue to push. Will we see more rallies and flooding of congresscritters townhall meetings? We'll know in the next 6-12 months whether the tea parties were genuine (and sustainable) or a one shot reaction to Obama's agenda.
As I noted in my post earlier, and as some one else added from their experience; the tea party cast such a wide net it contains lots of people who were reacting against Pres. Obama and almost anything else. And that includes social conservatives and libertarians...what you will see in the next 6-12 months is a falling out between them and the country club Republicans who already have the power in the House--most of whom want to maintain federal power so they can impose their "good" will on the rest of us.
Then let's hope the social conservatives lose that battle (but don't bolt the tea party.) I think the key to dealing with social cons is to reinforce to them the fact that we don't want to change the way they live their life, and want them to be able to practice their religion as freely as they want. One of the biggest drivers of socialcon unhappiness is the public school system. I can sympathize with them when they are upset that their moral/religious worldview is coopted by the government.
A libertarian world would be great for them. No public schools, and more federalism/weaker central government that tries to impose a one-size-fits-all moral view on the whole country.
Well I speak as an ordained clergy in a major denomination...obviously from my own personal perspective...but nowhere in the New Testament did Jesus tell his disciples to go into the world and take control of governments and impose his teachings/values on others. The "Church," and individual followers of Jesus, are to be a living example of what it means to be a Christian. We were not called to impose our beliefs, either liberal or conservative, on others; rather to live them out and share them.
Once in charge, the rage will fade and they will become ordinary politicians, protecting their big donors and trying to bring home money to their districts. They may push for cuts to small programs like the Dept. of Education, but big changes won't happen. Remember 1994, and how little was actually accomplished then? A little stalemate may be the best anyone can hope for.
Did you see Texas gov Rick Perry on the Today show (OK thats my junk food for the day) this morning? He was talking about his new book and went on and on about smaller govt. and fiscal responsibility.
I believe that would be the same Gov. GoodHair whose state budget had to get bailed out by the feds last time, and has an $18BB structural deficit to close this time.
Gov. GoodHair is everything that's wrong with Republicans, in one vaguely corrupt and oily package.
Do you think its real, or is that a wig he had on?
For all those complaining about social conservatism* in the Tea Parties, ask yourself a question:
Are these people pushing for legislation and regulations and agencies and cops and stuff to actually enforce their ideas about social conservatism?
Because if they aren't, there's no reason to read them out of the libertarian camp.
And in my experience, they generally aren't. Christine O'Donnell wasn't going to push a bill outlawing masturbation, you know.
*This includes me. I wish they'd STFU about everything but spending; its a distraction and worse.
In the same-sex marriage issue, they are pushing for laws to deny state subvention of same-sex unions.
Most of them are not seeking to imprison people for being in a same-sex union (unlike what was done to Mormon polygamists in the 19th century).
The social conservatives don't need to push for legislation...it is already in place, i.e. the "Patriot" Act and other laws. The dividing line between a libertarian and a social conservative is going to come down to who is willing to reduce the Federal Government's interference in the life of the individual.
A social conservative is no different than an economic liberal...they both want to control other people's lives. One wants to be in your bedroom, the other wants to be in the boardroom.
In 2000 one of the proposed amendments to the platform of the Texas Republican Party was a special tax intended to punish employers who knowingly hire homosexuals.
A "perfect" example of government interfering where it needs not go. Another area is where you have legislators calling for a Constitutional Marriage Amendment, which would make it a federal law that marriage is only between a man and a woman. How in the blue blazes can you justify that in light of the 10th Amendment?
Most social cons seem to support sodomy laws and were infuriated by Lawrence v. Texas. The TX Republican party platform supports them. I can't think of a better example of using govt. force to enact one's moral beliefs.
They're also hell-bent on suppressing teenagers' sexuality any way they can. They no longer have the legal authority to stop homosexuals from getting it on, or to stop men and women from oral sex or sex outside of marriage, but they don't stay out of 16 year olds' bedrooms.
People like Christine O'Donnell can't stop adults from masturbating, but they can stop taxpaying, car-driving 17 year old high school graduates from masturbating on their webcams.
Let's just take it one step at a time. Killing Obama's agenda is good enough for me at the moment.
In any event, it's probably going to take a monumental crash to change public attitudes about entitlements. Even then, there's just as good a chance we'll turn into a bigger, less attractive Argentina than go back to the principles of the founders.
Hi folks. Hopey McChangey here. Love the sage, reasoned discourse here at this fascinatingly named website. Before I ask y'all what kind of jobs you boobs have that allow you to spew your libertarian Obama-hating drivel for hours on end, let me respond to the premise of this article with the following eight specific points. Point one: maybe we'd stimulate the damn economy a bit if y'all would get back to work. Point two ... oh sorry, Matlock's starting.
I have to apologize to my fellow bloggers on H&R. I'm afraid that we have another Tony/Max in our midst. He has seen me post here and decided to answer me a couple of times. Now he's a big boy and has gone on his own. Please forgive him. He was brougt up on the upper west side, and was shocked to find out that there were lands populated west of Giants (or is it Jets) stadium.
It is true that I, Hopey McChangey, originally hail from NYC's upper west side, where I developed a worldview more complex than "foreigners bad" and "don't tax me, bro." My amigo, rac, on the other hand, now espouses a worldview that consists of guns and gold, with a dash of clown porn.
It is true that I, Hopey McChangey, originally hail from NYC's upper west side, where I developed a worldview more complex than "foreigners bad" and "don't tax me, bro."
He speaks the truth. Being from NYC's upper west side, his world view comes down to "Europe does it".
Yes, a very complex worldview. Clown porn AND all other classifications of porn.
I will confess, Europe rocks. Except the armpit smell. Not a big fan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/envi.....-showering
You know who else loved Europe?
Hopey McChangey|11.4.10 @ 2:36PM|#
"It is true that I, Hopey McChangey, originally hail from NYC's upper west side, where I developed a worldview more complex than "foreigners bad" and "don't tax me, bro.""
"Tax you" is not more 'complex', just more ignorant.
Some of that 1.6million growth in government and shrinkage of the private sector is from the TSA agents at airports - I think it is about 55,000 employees moved from private to public employment - a swing of 110,000.
Part of the problem is that many Republicans are just empty suits with no real ideas besides "lets make some cuts, but nothing really important". News to you doofuses: If there is money being handed out, it's important to somebody, and they are gonna bitch about it. Loudly.
Part of the problem though is that there is no benefit at all to suggesting a cut in anything if you don't mean it. I.e. if it isn't in a bill that you actually plan on voting for. Because just a mere mention that you want to cut all the mohair subsidies makes you an instant enemy of the Mohair Caucus of America (MCOA), but if it doesn't actually get cut you don't get any points at all for actually making government smaller.
It does not help that there is a fifth columnist media. As Tulpa pointed out :
Unfortunately, vague promises before an election generally don't translate into specific actions afterwards. Plus, the Reps will still have to answer to voters in the next election cycle if they do cut anything. They have to have the guts to do something that may jeopardize their offices, and risk loss of power for their principles.
I think Stossel is wrong. Taking small steps in the right direction is very meaningful, in the long run. Contrariwise, saying nothing is worth doing until the big steps are seriously considered is just a recipe for total cynical inaction -- which is exactly what we've been getting from both parties so far.
Consider how it works personally. If your budget is not working, and you recognize that fact and immediately cut out your daily Starbucks double multo espisso grande, then you have, at the least, started the journey. There's not a bad chance that when you realize (1) it's not so bad living without the daily indulgence, and (2) you're net debt climbed only $150 instead of $200 this week, that you'll be motivated to look for more areas to cut. By and by, you'll get to the big stuff, realize you need to sell the Escalade and buy a used Corolla, et cetera.
In general, people need to sneak up on big painful choices by making a lot of smaller, less painful choices in the same direction first, to more or less psych themselves up to it.
By contrast, if you were to look at your budget, realize it was wholly out of control, and cutting out Starbucks wouldn't really save you, then throw up your hands in despair -- you won't do anything at all. At least, that's my experience. People who realize they're way overweight and realize that simply not eating dessert twice a week isn't going to do the job -- just give up and have a big bowl of ice cream to drown their misery. People who realize their credit card debt will take 500 years to pay off at the minimum payment -- just throw up their hands, overwhelmed with the problem, and go gambling to forget about it.
It's risky to generalize from the personal to the national, but I think there's some aspect of that here. Both parties have been, for decades, throwing their hands up in despair at the unwillingness (or apparent unwillingness, since it hasn't really been tested) of the American people to submit to massive entitlement cuts. They just say Oh well, as long as the public won't support slashing Medicare and SS, then they're really not serious about fiscal discipline -- so it won't harm to load on a mere $100 billion payoff to my rent-seeking supporters.
Or just consider the AA model for how to stop drinking. You have to stop entirely. Not even one tiny sip. This, I think, is a reasonable model for the next Congress. Start cutting. Start cutting anywhere, no matter how small. When both you and the public realize the sky hasn't fallen -- keep going. We'll get to the big stuff by and by. But to not even begin the journey because we anticipate problems 10 miles down the road -- this is a big part of our current predicament.
The problem I see is that you still have to spend political capital to change the small stuff--why spend that capital on something that will have only a marginal effect? And, any time a politician does something to offend someone, there is an immediate blowback and politicians run the risk of not being reelected.
And that's why the careerist politicians have got to go, and term limits are a fabulous idea. We need more citizen-congressman types: Those who serve in congress to protect the constitution for a few years, then go home and do what they did before getting elected.
This is also why I admire Ron Paul. He was a doctor and had a lifelong career prior to taking office. Unlike my neocon congressman, he didn't study Political Science in college. He didn't set out with a goal in life of being a politician, thus, doing what's "politically savvy" or PR friendly isn't devastating to his livelihood.
John- my mother gets about 4k a month, $2800 from her pension fund, $1200 from SS. So, what you seem to be saying is cut her SS & Medicare. Great. Question- how is she going to live now? Since you just threw her out of the elder-care facility that she can now no longer afford, I suppose I would have to take her in, & quit my new shitty job to give her the 24 hr care she now needs, that she spent her career paying for. (By the by, the pension is from her career as a public school teacher, so I guess she's evil anyhow.) With SS gone, we can currently take care of her drug needs (in her dementia, she forgot to fill out an insurance form, so she got cut & lost a year of drug coverage from her private plan), but w/ Medicare gone, how are we supposed to pay for the hip-replacement she had to replace the broken one? I know, if we raise taxes on the Worthy Wealthy (like yourself), you won't be able to create all of those jobs that you're busy creating. So. What do I do? Just askin'. FYI: as grand as all of your anti-Statism looks in theory, it looks kinda merciless & sociopathic from where I sit. How's all that Koch money working out for you? Glad to hear it.
We can not afford to me merciful.
Fair. Also fair: don't expect any mercy back.
Hi Nick, stop for a moment and think about what you are saying:
"John how dare you want to spend less of your money on my mother's health care. If you won't pay higher taxes, I have to spend MY money."
One way or the other, one of you will have to be cold and heartless. Either John for not wanting to pay more for your family issue, or you for wanting to take John's money for something he isn't responsible for.
BTW, your mother is a retired teacher? Isn't there some sort of union health care package? Milwaukee alone has 1.5 Billion in unfunded healthcare liabilities. And my understanding is that government employees in WI before 1994 were entitled to lifetime healthcare. So wouldn't a combination of that + medicare take care of your mother's needs?
$4,000 a month is a pretty decent salary in Wisconsin, although I understand medical costs can eat that up.
Thanks for attempting to be reasonable. Not going to argue over tax philosophy (tho I'd argue something along the lines of shared reponsibility, seeing as we're all American citizens) Re yr points: 1) not after 65. 2) employed by a different (solvent) district 3) district employee, not state. She's fine for now, til she gets worse (minimum 100k yr full nursing care), or the R's stop the (bought & paid for) SS checks & the 4k that (barely)covers things so far, shrinks. Then problems.
So you are all on board with means testing that doesn't touch your mom, and then a gradual phase out that doesn't affect her either?
Maybe. How much you care to bet that YOUR Mom, or you, don't get stuck on the unlucky side of THAT equation? Bet, when my time comes, I will. Expect me to be happy about that?
Let me think. Your mother or my children's education and welfare.
If you want to make it that way, then to hell with your children. Is this the New America you think is such a good idea? I'd rather not make it that way, but, if you insist...
Nick, You're demagoging the issue. Under even the most ambitious proposed SS/Medicare cuts, your mom (and anyone else already collecting SS/Medicare) wouldn't be affected at all by the cuts. They would affect only people younger than 55 (and then phased in slowly).
Personally, I think they can start now with current retirees by means testing (e.g. any retiree who makes over $250K/year or has over $5M networth is no longer eligible regardless of age).
I know it's not going to amount to much savings, but it will get the ball rolling and dispell the myth of entitlements being "untouchable".
Probably. Hard not to when you're a bit scared & very angry. Right now, I'm convinced that the R's will force a govt shutdown (this time, expect them to do a much better job pinning the blame on the White House than they did last time), & freezing the SS payouts. (Never mind the economic damage that's gonna risk.) Means testing you describe sounds reasonable. Question: how "touchable" will entitlements get?
2800 + 1200 vs.
2800 + 1200 0.
Don't be hyperbolic. She still has her pension. Besides, Congress spent the money she put into the program a long time ago. Now, the money being given to her is being taken from current contributors.
How much money does her family contribute to her retirement?
And you're kidding yourself if you seriously think the GOP is going to do a damn thing about eliminating entitlement programs.
Demagouging. Hyperbolic. Congrats on the vocab; Literacy is next to Godliness, even for atheistic apostates like myself. That 1200 is the diff between in & out; it's a big deal for us.
OK. The people saying SS is fully solvent til 2037 are wrong how?
Family $? You're kidding, right? We're down-trending middle-class, there isn't any spare $.
As for the R's, I believe- no, I Believe- that they'll hack up anything standing between them & the Executive branch. As for them eliminating entitlement programs, I don't think they'll screw their voting base as long as they need them- sfter that, of course, they'll serve their $ base.
Seriously. How far down should be entitlements (I think by that we mean SS, Medicare, & Medicaid) be cut, in the end?
Demagouging. Hyperbolic. Congrats on the vocab; Literacy is next to Godliness, even for atheistic apostates like myself. That 1200 is the diff between in & out; it's a big deal for us.
Welcome to Reason, dumbass.
Family $? You're kidding, right? We're down-trending middle-class, there isn't any spare $.
Yet you have no problems with complete strangers financing it.
As for the R's, I believe- no, I Believe- that they'll hack up anything standing between them & the Executive branch. As for them eliminating entitlement programs, I don't think they'll screw their voting base as long as they need them- sfter that, of course, they'll serve their $ base.
Medicare part D ring a fucking bell? What have they cut? When? You think this will change now because... they really mean it this time?
Seriously. How far down should be entitlements (I think by that we mean SS, Medicare, & Medicaid) be cut, in the end?
$0.00 That's how far. So should your taxes, so that you can (which you probably won't because it sounds like you just want to be bailed out in life) save up for your own retirement and keep your own money to do what you want with (which sounds like not planning for anything, in your case).
Demagouging. Hyperbolic. Congrats on the vocab; Literacy is next to Godliness, even for atheistic apostates like myself. That 1200 is the diff between in & out; it's a big deal for us.
Welcome to Reason, dumbass.
Family $? You're kidding, right? We're down-trending middle-class, there isn't any spare $.
Yet you have no problems with complete strangers financing it.
As for the R's, I believe- no, I Believe- that they'll hack up anything standing between them & the Executive branch. As for them eliminating entitlement programs, I don't think they'll screw their voting base as long as they need them- sfter that, of course, they'll serve their $ base.
Medicare part D ring a fucking bell? What have they cut? When? You think this will change now because... they really mean it this time?
Seriously. How far down should be entitlements (I think by that we mean SS, Medicare, & Medicaid) be cut, in the end?
$0.00 That's how far. So should your taxes, so that you can (which you probably won't because it sounds like you just want to be bailed out in life) save up for your own retirement and keep your own money to do what you want with (which sounds like not planning for anything, in your case).
First things first, the Koch brothers are late on my check. I expect it to be sent out promptly.
"Since you just threw her out of the elder-care facility that she can now no longer afford, I suppose I would have to take her in, & quit my new shitty job to give her the 24 hr care she now needs, that she spent her career paying for."
It seems as though you think taking in your elderly grandmother is an undue burden. For 2800 a month you can get an at-home nurse for your grandmother to cover the time you're at that new 'shitty' job.
"With SS gone, we can currently take care of her drug needs (in her dementia, she forgot to fill out an insurance form, so she got cut & lost a year of drug coverage from her private plan)"
I don't see how your grandmothers inability to fill out her insurance form, and your neglect in helping her keep her paperwork in order is my problem. Call me heartless.
"but w/ Medicare gone, how are we supposed to pay for the hip-replacement she had to replace the broken one?"
If she needed the surgery, you can find a way to pay for it. Maybe you have to sell your flatscreen TV, or downgrade your vehicle. Maybe you will have to find a less luxurious home to live in to make up the difference. Either way, not anyone else's problem but yours.
"I know, if we raise taxes on the Worthy Wealthy (like yourself), you won't be able to create all of those jobs that you're busy creating."
Class envy showing?
"So. What do I do? Just askin'."
Man up and do what needs to be done, even if its inconvenient for you, and even if you'd have to give up some of your luxuries. She's your family for god's sake! But don't expect other people to foot the bill.
All that being said, the entire situation wouldn't matter, as any reform to SS or Medicare would be phased in as other commenters have pointed out, and would not effect your grandmother at all.
First things first: it's no secret that Charles & David Koch are very generous to the Cato Institute, & other Libertarian outfits, as gererous as they've been w/ the "spontaneous""non-Republican" Tea Parties. I hope that neither of us is silly enough to think that they'd cut a check to the likes of you.
Until you've experienced it in someone close to you, it's easy to underestimate how sneaky the onset of elder Dementia can be. Family. friends, & professionals missed it in my mother til she fell & concussed herself, then Whammo! Only later did did the rest of us realize that she'd been slowly slipping over a 4 month period, doing things like showing up for breckfast at midnight, & forgetting to pay bills. When someone has spent their entire life being self-reliant, it's kind of hard for them to surrender that self-reliance, as hard as it is the people around them to realize it, reach in, and take away their precious independence. So, I kind of resent your cheap & sleazy insinuation that I find my Mother's care an "undue burden". Undue? No, of course not. A burden? One Hell of a one- I tried it, didn't work, I couldn't do it. Try watching a dementia patient all day, all night, no relief. After 4 months, I found an elder care facility we could afford. May you never be in that position. So I find your accusations that I'm lazy, unloving, thankless, and selfish to be a bit filthy. & where do you get off thinking that I have so many needless luxuries that simply doing w/out them could muster up a hip-replacement? Your general argument that whoever lands on the tough-love side of Our New Social Contract deserves to be there is dumb, especially when you could be next. Class envy? There's a class war on. I keep trying to respect Libertarians- there's a lot to like about Libertarian ideals- but you don't, as a group, seem to realize that oppresion can be economic as well as political, that the Market can be as repressive as the State. When I hear Stoessel, or you, talk blithely about cutting Medicare and Medicaid, incrementally or not, I get touchy.
Man up. Yeah, right, buddy. When my time, or your time comes, we best die lucky, for our kid's sake. Because imposing on John Stoessel's class would be unfair.
Nick, I wish I got more free money too, but everyone has to deal with the end of life issues. You act like you are the only one with expenses or problems. Do you think the tax money comes from imaginary people? That money came from me and I'm dealing with the same shit as you so shut the fuck up. My family has all sorts of problems, give me some of your money and I'll be better off. Thanks
How about that fed decision yesterday. I'M PUMPED!
Is this a new episode? I'm gonna miss it.
It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
God damn I wish people would quit referring to other human beings as 'the rich' or 'the poor'.
They already do....
And what exactly is the 'public expense'? Are we talking infrastructure, basic operating costs? Or when you say 'public expense' does it really mean 'other peoples private expenses like healthcare, pocket money, food and rent that we'll make the rest of the public pay"?
Let me expand...
The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
Hey, I'm your guys' philosopher...
In other words, Smith didn't have a problem with progressive taxation, at least in the abstract.
Which is nice, but irrelevant, since we're talking about modern social-welfare entitlements the likes of which didn't exist until about 150 years after Smith was worm-food.
Admit it, you don't know anything about the lives of poor people except what you hear from Limbaugh.
Shrike? We missed you.
Sonny, I've been poor. So climb the fuck down off your little hill of self-righteousness before you fall down and hurt yourself.
"I've BEEN poor
I greq up white in a safe suburban area all my life in a stable family - but I wasn't rich so that MUST mean I was POOR!
I can totally make that comparison! It's not like there are scores of people who had way worse of a start in life! Nobody like that exists!"
Thank you, Comrade Edwin. Your service to the cause is most valuable.
We, also, wish to thank Edwin for his service.
Admit it, you've never had to live off oatmeal and top ramen as a kid, either.
You never had to wear shoes so worn that your socks poked out the toes and the souls of which were so worn the skin on your feet was being rubbed off.
But I guess you mean people that didn't get past that and unfuck themselves financially when they got older.
Hey Adam,
I heard you also believe in the labor theory of value. So fuck you, you dumbass motherfucker.
"They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it"
Carls Jr Spicy Chicken Sandwiches. They're delicious and cost $.99.
Make 4 bucks a day and you've got your 2,000 calories .
If you suck so bad that you can't figure out 4 bucks a day, you're fucked, sonny.
Adam Smith|11.4.10 @ 5:07PM|#
"Let me expand...
The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it."
True enough when you wrote it, but your insight about the invisible hand has made it pretty much obsolete.
Now, the "poor" find the greater part of their revenue spent on the third or forth TV.
You think that because Saint Ronald Reagan has replaced me as your go-to economic philosopher, providing you with a nasty, hateful caricature of the poor that you think gives you license to ignore them, blame them for their circumstances, and denounce sound economic policy.
No, I think you lie through your teeth.
That's the only way there is to lie, unless you know sign language.
I don't think the poor are responsible for their plight.
But my brother Ralph would have a fucking dime to his name if he'd get off his ass and get a job and quit smoking weed.
Plus, buying that car on "$0 down" wasn't exactly the best move either.
Too bad I'm so scarce.
Let's cut more millionaires' taxes. That'll help!
Too bad you're such an ignoramus.
Too bad you don't have fucking me about fiscal respnsibility.
Too bad you don't have fucking me around when you decided Halo and skateboarding was your key to success.
Too bad you didn't have me when you WEREN'T filling out those financial aid apps at a community college.
Find me someone that's both starving and complaining, and I'll show you a guy without me about anything.
Too bad I don't have me how to spell 'responsibility'
"This was to be the year of the Tea Party triumph."
Why is it that almost no one in the media gets it right? There is no political party called the 'Tea Party.' There is no national organization or political action committee known as the 'Tea Party.' Therefore, statements such as the above are absurd.
During the past two years, there have been local and regional events known as 'tea parties' that attract people who oppose massive government spending and high taxes. Tea party attendees are not a unified voting bloc. They disagree about what government system is best, what economic system is best, whether open immigration is good, whether affirmative action should be ended, whether homosexuals should serve in the military, etc. Equating people who attend tea parties to people who are active members of a political party is incorrect and misleading.
And they all happened to show up when a darky took office. Bush blew up the gov't and I didn't hear shit from tea partiers, they were too busy defending Bush attacking Iraq.
Dear Tea Partiers:
You are slow hypocritical morons who don't like Dems and darkies. smaller gov't is a throw away idea for you.
Liberals love to play this "We're not saying every single opponent of Obama is racist, but..." game. It's tired and old, and it demeans the victims of REAL racism.
Hush. The rubes in the TV audiences love being told who the real racists are, as decided by those of us in the TV industry.
and
You'll never win if you're so fucked in the head that you think taxes are exactly the same as theft.
To win, you need realistic goals and outlooks. You need reasonability.
You'll never win a football game if your idea of winning involves scoring every touchdown by literally jumping up and flying through the air across the end zone.
Taxes are theft, but I'd settle for reasonable goals like cutting military spending by 60-80%, ending Social Security, and ending Medicare. Leave welfare and Medicaid for the truly needy if we must, to not appear too heartless, but why tax young productive people for the benefit of old unproductive people?
Because those young people will grow into old people. Simple generational transfer. It's fair, it keeps people from starving for the crime of being too old to work, and it has worked just fine for many decades.
Looka me! I can predict the future!
Run for the hills! SS will be bankrupt in 40 years if we do absolutely nothing! We must immediately transfer it all to investment bankers!
Of course freedom didn't win, if your idea is "freedom" is like Stossel's, and you've read and admired Walter Block's "Defending the Indefensible", where apparently the idea of "freedom" means you totally have the right to grope women at the office, because, hey, that's what they're there for, among other horrible things he said
Um, kids, freedom is bad, mmmkay? So, um, don't talk about freedom, mmmkay? And be sure to turn in your parents if they talk about freedom, mmmkay?
All we have to do is look to the South where they have had Republicans in control for a few decades and we can see that they value personal freedom and small government above eveything else. I hope we can all be like Mississippi and Alabama one day.
you mean sitting on the toilet screaming the n-word at god all day?
Southerners-are-racist lulz!
Would you rather have gov't run by folks who tell you they are going to spend all your money or folks who tell you they are going to save your money and then spend more than they have?
You're right, Edwin. Every Southerner is racist.
/sarcasm
Edwin is right. Every single one of us do, indeed, screaming the n-word on our toilets on a regular basis.
Edwin doesn't know how right he is. Why, if people only knew that our ranks are easily a hundred times greater than the SPLC thinks, we'd be getting new applicants by the thousands.
The military budget is several times larger than it needs to be to provide for an adequate defense. Cut it by 60%, at least.
Social Security is welfare for old unproductive people, paid for by taxes on young productive people. We already have welfare for the truly needy, why give people money just because they're old?
Same for Medicare: keep Medicaid to help the needy, and let everyone else pay for their own medical care.
TO THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAT?..TO ALL THE COMMUNIST IN THE IG,FBI,CIA,AND U.S. Senators and the left wing media outlets?..Wake up america!!!! This goverment is the most corrupt we have had in years. The good old boy network is very much in charge.Mr. obama and pelosi are the puppet masters.How many of their good friends benefited by the agreement " what a farce. All of the u.sSenators voted for this. I am ashamed to say I voted for the these corupted self serving politicians.With good reason they picked an out of towner to be president.All u.s departments need an overhaul. We need to rid ourselves of the puppet masters and the dept heads that bow down to obama and pelosi.I am sick of the lip service I have been getting from these dummies over violations, their friends are getting away with.in the goverment . Barack Hussein Obama , threatens friends and bows to Mmslim.
INPEACH OBAMA ,GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.///For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain american or we come under the thumb of the communist Mmslim Barack Hussein OBAMA. This latter must not occur.//////// I love communist obama.will you ,thank you,the commander.ps aka red ink obama.//////// Repost this if you agree, IS communist obama ONE , Because of its secrecy and refusal to issue news releases, the Bilderberg group is frequently accused of political conspiracies. This outlook has been popular on both extremes of the ideological spectrum, even if they disagree on what the group wants to do. Left-wingers accuse the Bilderberg group of conspiring to impose capitalist domination,[21] while some right-wing groups such as the John Birch Society have accused the group of conspiring to impose a world government and planned economy.Obama's India trip really an Emergency Bilderberger Meeting ?THE COMMADER.
Bilderberger influenceTO THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAT?..TO ALL THE COMMUNIST IN THE IG,FBI,CIA,AND U.S. Senators and the left wing media outlets?..Wake up america!!!! This goverment is the most corrupt we have had in years. The good old boy network is very much in charge.Mr. obama and pelosi are the puppet masters.How many of their good friends benefited by the agreement " what a farce. All of the u.sSenators voted for this. I am ashamed to say I voted for the these corupted self serving politicians.With good reason they picked an out of towner to be president.All u.s departments need an overhaul. We need to rid ourselves of the puppet masters and the dept heads that bow down to obama and pelosi.I am sick of the lip service I have been getting from these dummies over violations, their friends are getting away with.in the goverment . Barack Hussein Obama , threatens friends and bows to Mmslim.
INPEACH OBAMA ,GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.///For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain american or we come under the thumb of the communist Mmslim Barack Hussein OBAMA. This latter must not occur.//////// I love communist obama.will you ,thank you,the commander.ps aka red ink obama.//////// Repost this if you agree, IS communist obama ONE , Because of its secrecy and refusal to issue news releases, the Bilderberg group is frequently accused of political conspiracies. This outlook has been popular on both extremes of the ideological spectrum, even if they disagree on what the group wants to do. Left-wingers accuse the Bilderberg group of conspiring to impose capitalist domination,[21] while some right-wing groups such as the John Birch Society have accused the group of conspiring to impose a world government and planned economy.Obama's India trip really an Emergency Bilderberger Meeting ?THE COMMADER //////// .Is Barack Obama pushing forward dangerous policies that are bringing the United States closer to a socialist dictatorship. Are you even aware?
2. What is the major proof of the Bilderberger influence over many of the world events in the last decade!
3. Is it really true that the recent global financial collapse was engineered by the Bilderberg Group. Why was their 2010 annual meeting held in Greece?
4. Bilderberger influence,president George W. Bush says he was "blindsided" by the financial crisis that shadowed his final months in office, but adds that the Democratic-controlled Congress shares some of the blame. -
Now that the agenda for global government and a centralized world economic system is public and out in the open, the importance of the Bilderberg Group's annual conference rests on grooming political candidates. The lion's share of Bilderberg's 2010 agenda has already been announced by its members weeks before ? it will revolve around a potential military strike on Iran as well as the future collapse of the euro.
----- Bilderberg group in United States-------
George W. Ball (1954, 1993),[13] Under Secretary of State 1961-1968, Ambassador to U.N. 1968
Sandy Berger (1999),[14] National Security Advisor, 1997?2001
Timothy Geithner(2009),[15] Treasury Secretary
Lee H. Hamilton (1997),[1] former US Congressman
Christian Herter,[16] (1961, 1963, 1964, 1966), 53rd United States Secretary of State
Charles Douglas Jackson (1957, 1958, 1960),[17] Special Assistant to the President
Joseph E. Johnson[18] (1954), President Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Henry Kissinger[19] (1957, 1964, 1966, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1977, 2008),[20] 56th United States Secretary of State
Colin Powell (1997),[1] 65th United States Secretary of State
Lawrence Summers,[15] Director of the National Economic Council
Paul Volcker,[15] Chair of the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board and Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1979?1987
Roger Altman (2009),[15] Deputy Treasury Secretary from 1993?1994, Founder and Chairman of Evercore Partners
[edit] Presidents
Bill Clinton (1991),[21][22] President 1993-2001
Gerald Ford (1964, 1966),[4][23] President 1974-1977
[edit] Senators
John Edwards (2004),[24][25] Senator from North Carolina 1999-2005
Chuck Hagel (1999, 2000),[26] Senator from Nebraska 1997-2009
Sam Nunn (1996, 1997),[1] Senator from Georgia 1972-1997
[edit] Governors
Rick Perry (2007),[27] Governor of Texas 2000-current
Mark Sanford (2008),[28] Governor of South Carolina ,the commander
is good