Global Warming

Are You Still Buying Democracy When Your Opponents Outspend You Two-to-One?

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California's Proposition 23, which would overturn a set of anti-global warming laws in California, got a million in support from a subsidiary of the notorious Koch Industries, defilers of democracy (as well as larger donations from other oil-related companies). Meanwhile, environmentalist opponents have raised nearly $20 million to keep Cali's global warming measures intact, twice what proponents of the measure have given. Quotes, links, and details at my Southern California news and politics blog "City of Angles." David Koch is on the board of trustees of the Reason Foundation, which owns this website.

Ronald Bailey wrote back in July 2009 on the damage Cali's global warming laws will likely have on its economy.

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  1. You know it’s funny, but according to some people, before the Koch brothers make their donations, I never had any of my own opinions at all!

    1. I only pay attention to who spends the most money when making decisions on who to vote for. It only makes sense.

      1. Shouldn’t this whole thing be especially offensive to the Hit & Run commentariat though?

        You libertarians wouldn’t think what you think if it wasn’t for the Koch brothers?!

        Nevermind how much we argue with each other–why not just call us a bunch of idiots for believing everything we read?

        It’s deeply offensive.

        1. I’m offended at you taking offense. You have to much “we” and “us” in your post. Narrow it down to just “I”.

          1. But they’re talking about all of US, aren’t they.

            Their basic argument is that WE’RE all libertarian capitalists because of the Koch brothers!

            They’re trying to blame the Tea Party and disgust with all things Obama generally on the Koch brothers donations too…

            Why are they so different from the rest of US?

            Earth to Progressives: it really is possible for US to dislike you of OUR own free will!

            WE would all be libertarians with or without the donations of people like the Koch brothers.

            1. Gotta disagree Ken. Mainly, it’s a “anyone who disagrees with me is wrong” message. Not to be taken seriously. Relax, brother. How’s Mexico treatin’ you by the way? Haven’t seen you around the gryll lately.

              1. I spend most of my time back in the states now. Opportunity hasn’t been knockin’, so I’ve been out knockin’ for opportunity–like I was a Jehovah’s Witness or somethin’.

                Anyway, I still think…if you listen to what they’re saying at HuffPost or at SF Gate, NY Times comment section, etc…

                The rap was always that the evil corporate Republicans were ignoring what the People really wanted–which is a Progressive world. The People want ObamaCare, they want Kyoto, and they want Gay Everything. …and if only “we” got rid of the evil corporate Republicans, then the Dems could make the People’s Progressive dreams finally come true! …and “we” could all live happily ever after.

                Only something happened along the way. You see, our evil corporate overlords (the Koch brothers supposedly being an excellent example), infected the minds of the People with their evil corporate propaganda! They used money to trick people into thinking the Progressive Dream was bad! In this narrative, the People still want what the Progressives want–by definition. It’s just that some of them have been fooled by propaganda…

                And, yes, we here at Hit & Run are the worst of those brain-washed fools, because we don’t think ObamaCare is wonderful. People who don’t like Obama are just like Truthers and Creationists and Climate Change Deniers–in fact, in their narrative, we’re all the same people.

                I think it’s time to start taking it personally. When they’re talking about people being brainwashed by propaganda, they’re not talking about somebody else. They really are talking about me.

                They’re talking about all of us over here.

                1. Yeah. I hear you but The People are gonna hammer “progressives” this November. They can spin it all they want from comments at Huffington Post to NY Times articles but it isn’t gonna make a dent in my ego. Which is flattered, by the way, that such awesome jedi powers are ascribed to me. You’d think I had a death star up my sleeve*.

                  *Which I may or may not know the location of . . . bwahahahahahahahaha!

                2. And glad to hear you keep on keeping on. /joe dirt

                3. The rap was always that the evil corporate Republicans were ignoring what the People really wanted–which is a Progressive world. The People want ObamaCare, they want Kyoto, and they want Gay Everything. …and if only “we” got rid of the evil corporate Republicans, then the Dems could make the People’s Progressive dreams finally come true! …and “we” could all live happily ever after.

                  Only something happened along the way. You see, our evil corporate overlords (the Koch brothers supposedly being an excellent example), infected the minds of the People with their evil corporate propaganda! They used money to trick people into thinking the Progressive Dream was bad! In this narrative, the People still want what the Progressives want–by definition. It’s just that some of them have been fooled by propaganda…

                  This is very much the truth of the situation here, that the narrative is that we’re too stupid to know what’s really good for us or what we really want.

                  Very very “progressive” (in the historical sense) and very, ahem, 19th century German.

                  1. You know for whom else 19th-century Germany was formative…

                4. Of course they blame all of us. They are incapable of thinking outside of a “WE” or “OUR” context. “I” is only important insofar as it can contribute to “WE”, and if it doesn’t, it’s an entity to be eradicated. Republicans are no different from libertarians are no different from anti-Obama (regardless of political persuasion). That is why we’re all racists, because their only mode of understanding the world is through a collective, thus we must collectively be against Obama because of his race.

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  2. Are You Still Buying Democracy When Your Opponents Outspend You Two-to-One?

    Only if you win.

  3. What’s truly amazing about the whole “OMG the shadowy Koch brothers” thing is that the leftists will talk about it, yet can completely ignore people like George Soros. It’s astounding the levels of cognitive dissonance they can handle.

    1. If only there was some way to use that remarkable ability for good. Like, a renewable energy source or something.

      1. Nah, it’s more like having an insane tolerance for cocaine or something. It’s not really useful to anyone, and just costs you more money.

    2. What’s truly amazing about the whole “OMG the shadowy Koch brothers” thing is that the leftists will talk about it, yet can completely ignore people like George Soros. It’s astounding the levels of cognitive dissonance they can handle.

      True enough, but to be fair, Soros is hardly “shadowy” about his giving, where that is at least a little bit true of Koch. Of course, there are just as many on the right who defend Koch while demonizing Soros. The other guy’s guy is always bad while your guy’s guy is good. Or something.

      1. True, but it has been the left that has been freaking out about Citizens United and corporate influence. TEAM RED is just as hypocritical on most things, but this one is really in TEAM BLUE’s court.

        1. I don’t know. I guess with the “corporate influence” you have to expect the side that mistrusts corporations (as a rule) to be more likely to get hyperbolic when a corporation opposes their agenda than the side which defends corporations (as a rule), but I don’t think TEAM RED gets off the hook when it comes to hyperbolic rhetoric about “shadowy money” influencing politics.

          Then there’s the fact that TEAM RED just has more shadowy money flowing at the moment.
          http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsal…..mpaign-ads

          1. Which is why the the “NEA spends more money on elections that Microsoft, ExxonMobil, Walmart, and the AFL-CIO combined.”

            And for the record, I wouldn’t give a shit about Soros if he only spent money on anti-WoD causes. It’s the whole “spending money to destroy the system that made him a billionaire” hypocrisy that makes me wish he’d spent a little time in a Hungarian political prison for “re-education”.

            1. I’m a big BakedPenguin fan.

              But dude survived the holocaust in Hungary. I know you didn’t mean anything by it. …but the camp that dude barely survived being sent off to wasn’t a camp for reeducation.

              I know you didn’t mean that by it, but a lot of other people maybe wouldn’t.

              1. Called Soros.
                Sometimes bad things happen to good people, sometimes they happen to bad people, and they happen to those of us in between.

                Elie Wiesel survived concentration camps and he is still a nasty little lying fuck.

                1. I don’t particularly care for the guy’s politics at all, but dude’s still a hero of mine.

                  Survive a living nightmare like that, make makes his way to the London School of Economics after the war, penniless, to study philosophy under Karl Popper. Essentially, he applies Popper’s Fallibilism to finance–and makes a fortune…

                  Then he turns around and starts a foundation named after Popper’s work of political philosophy and uses his fortune to undermine the sorts of right wing causes that tried to exterminate him as a child in Hungary…

                  Like I said, I don’t agree with the guy, but considering everything he’s survived and thrived through, just to become a thorn in the side of those he sees as his enemies?

                  Right or wrong on any given issue, anybody that vicious dictators blame for being the ultimate force behind deposing them? Can’t Be All Bad.

                  That’s a bigger blow for freedom than I’ll ever have the chance to land. I have a ton of respect for what a sharp mind can do with money. I guess a lot of us do a little of that with the Reason Foundation, or when we subscribe, and I guess that’s takin’ it kinda personal too…

                  The only real difference between people like the Koch brothers and people who send Reason $50 when they can are the depth of their pockets. I still say we should take this stuff personally.

                  1. Soros survived the holocaust by collaborating. Look, I am not throwing stones here. I can’t imagine being in that situation. So, I can’t say that I wouldn’t have done the same. But that has to totally fuck you up even if you do survive. Soros has to have more issues than a magazine rack.

                    1. Ken, I was making a point in a very crass way. It was more offensive due to his history, which I was not aware of. I do agree with John that it was an impossible situation, and his range of options were limited.

                      However, he has become more and more of a “regulator” the wealthier he has become. Sorry, that strikes me as “now that I have mine, fuck all you little people trying to become wealthy”. (See also: the Kennedys, the Rockerfellers).

          2. “at the moment”

            Doesn’t that tell you something, Neu?

          3. I don’t know. I guess with the “corporate influence” you have to expect the side that mistrusts corporations (as a rule) to be more likely to get hyperbolic when a corporation opposes their agenda

            “The side that mistrusts corporations”

            Would that be the party of corporate welfare, the Democrats?

      2. Neu Mejican|10.15.10 @ 8:02PM|#
        “True enough, but to be fair, Soros is hardly “shadowy” about his giving, where that is at least a little bit true of Koch.”

        You had to click *twice* to find Koch?

  4. DRED SCOTT!!!!1!

  5. funded by major oil refiners based in Texas, Kansas and Ohio

    Not “out-of-state.” A list of states. States fulla crackaz!

    Koch Industries ($1 million), which is also a major supporter of the tea party movement

    Seriously, guys. They’re turning the hose on you now.

    One of your JournoList pals has to be, like, .01% non-asshole. (I’m an optimist.) Get that “Cracker Peril” memo from him. It’s same theme in every damn election story.

    I know the press hive-mind drones away on its own, but someone always starts it droning. Tell us who the queen is.

    Nut the fuck up, yo.

  6. Are You Still Buying Democracy When Your Opponents Outspend You Two-to-One?

    No. You are just trying to buy democracy (but don’t have enough friends, perhaps).

    1. No. You are just trying to buy democracy (but don’t have enough friends, perhaps).

      Kay. So the other side successfully bought democracy… and has enough friends.

  7. It’s only buying democracy when non-Democratic aligned corporations pay.

    If the voters pass a law written, submitted, and advertised by green corporations, it is democracy in action, progress, and a triumph of the little people over evil corporate polluters, not matter how much money is given.

    1. Koch actually is pretty bad about the whole pollution thing…not really sure it is unfair to characterize them as “evil corporate polluters.” Sure they have a right to try and prevent laws that make their evil harder to carry out…but let’s not pretend they are doing it for anyone else’s benefit.

      1. Neu Mejican|10.15.10 @ 8:19PM|#
        “Koch actually is pretty bad about the whole pollution thing….”

        Please define “pollution thing” and “bad”.

        1. Pollution
          http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09…..texas.html

          Bad
          The whole Stalin thing.

  8. Let that place fall into the ocean, see if I care.

  9. to be fair, Soros is hardly “shadowy” about his giving, where that is at least a little bit true of Koch.

    And when kindly old Grandpa Buffett totters onto the stage, and tells us how we don’t pay enough taxes, and spouts a bunch of other high-toned poppycock without revealing the ways in which he stands to benefit, how do you classify that?

    1. ?Cu?l es m?s macho, Buffett o Koch?

      1. ?Todos menos macho de Pickens! ??l es un pedo grande!

  10. I cannot answer that.

    Buffett has more money, and he is a shameless attention whore.

    Are cash contributions to political causes and candidates by the “reclusive” Koch brothers any more insidious than Bill Gross’ or Mark Zandi’s testimony before Congress?

  11. I can’t escape these anti-23 ads. They’re all over the Internet — even on Hulu.

    Can’t wait to vote Yes.

  12. Voting yes is going to be a pleasure.

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  14. This damn corporations are buying our democracy in order to save our Republic. Oh, wait . . . that didn’t come out right. Why isn’t my teleprompter back from the techs yet?

    1. Don’t worry, no one will hear about this outside Fox News. You are safe.

  15. Why won’t the Kochtopus drop a millie for Prop 19?

  16. And here comes the Interference of some vote-seeking politicians which bring s economic mayhem. Now I can I see big corporations controling the government while YOU are still in deep hole trying to make your way out.

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  17. LOL, kinda scary when you think about it dude.

    http://www.total-privacy.au.tc

    1. I agree anon-bot. The fact that environmentalist groups even have $20m dollars to spend is frightening…

  18. $20,000,000 would have bought a lot of carbon offsets.

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