Religion

Defending Murfreesboro's Hallowed Ground

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Residents of Murfreesboro, Tennessee have now gone to court to prevent the construction of a mosque and community center—a mere 900 miles from Ground Zero. The construction site has already been targeted by arsonists.

The project was greenlit under a recent Tennessee law called the Tennessee Religious Freedom Act, passed to make it easier for religious organizations to get around local zoning laws to build houses of worship. The law puts an extra burden on local officials to demonstrate the government's interest in preventing the construction of a religious structure.

Mosque opponents argue that the center shouldn't be covered by the law, apparently because . . . mosques aren't churches.

Mosque opponent Kevin Fisher was scheduled to speak but had to leave due to health problems. A couple of hours before the commission meeting, Fisher filed a lawsuit against the commission in chancery court to stop construction of the Mosque.

"This case is about making sure that it's really a church and making sure the county commission and planning commission stop operating as puppets," Attorney Joe Brandon Jr. told the Murfreesboro Post.

Emphasis mine. Here's some more fun from the opposition:

Local residents expressed their fear and anger at two past meetings of the Rutherford County Commission when area Muslims were granted permission to build a new Mosque. Some told commissioners they feared Muslims would try to kill them while others contended Muslims were here to replace local government with Sharia Law.

Opposition to the Mosque gained the attention of Televangelist Pat Robertson. In an August 19 airing of the 700 Club, the one-time failed Presidential candidate said Muslims could be bribing county government.

"I don't know whether anybody is getting a pay-off, but it's entirely possible," Robertson told his audience.

On August 28, someone burned excavating equipment where the Mosque is being built damaging the equipment. The incident also followed vandalism against the site's sign in January and June.

But don't go drawing any broad conclusions, here.

Fisher made a point to tell the Murfreesboro Post this wasn't about intolerance toward Muslims.

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  1. Any bets on the liberal trolls showing up in this thread?

    1. Did some one call? Aren’t these anti-mosque assholes the very Tea Party fucks you libertoid nitwits are putting your hopes in for some sort of an anti-government insurgency?

      1. I was wondering how you would spin this.

        1. really? seriously, you were really wondering what max was going to say? I’m sorry.

          1. You must be the *sane* Max. Pleased to meet you.

      2. Fucking Christians! Only Muslims are worth defending!

      3. Max, you foul language indicates a lack of logic.

    2. I’m neither, but according to the linked article, “Fisher is named with three other plaintiffs: James Estes, Lisa Moore and Henry Golczynski.” All of four people oppose the mosque? Then there’s this, from Radley: “Local residents expressed their fear and anger at two past meetings….Some told commissioners they feared Muslims would try to kill them while others contended Muslims were here to replace local government with Sharia Law.” How many people? Three? Four? Radley doesn’t say. So is the whole community a bunch of bigoted Tennessee redneck Bible-thumpers? Or just a few bad apples?

      1. So is the whole community a bunch of bigoted Tennessee redneck Bible-thumpers?

        Is there any other kind?

  2. “I don’t know whether anybody is getting a pay-off, but it’s entirely possible,” Robertson told his audience.

    I don’t know if Robertson is a total doucheknuckle – oh wait, yes I do.

    1. He may be, but, do you think that local and county public officials are immune from the sway of payola when the temptation emanates from allah’s worshippers?

      1. Assuming the local officials are tolerant enough of Muslims to take their money. Greed Vs. Racism: your guess is as good as mine.

        1. Wylie, what race are Muslims?

          1. What race do you think Tennesseans think they are? Certainly white.

      2. Whoa whoa whoa. Now you’re into religious bigotry too, l-mike?

    2. I don’t know whether Pat Robertson fucks sheep, but it’s possible.

      1. That’s not very nice accusing me of screwing a filthy stupid farm animal!

      2. Crude rhetoric is a poor substitute for rational debate.

    3. I’m not saying Pat Robertson is a sheepfucker, but it’s worth thinking about.

    4. Remember, Robertson also claimed that the earthquake in Haiti was caused by a pact with the devil.

      1. I heard it was caused by all of the raucous vibrations made while Robertson was fucking a sheep.

  3. I don’t know if Pat Robertson fucks dolphins, but it’s entirely possible.

    1. I don’t know if conservatives are overwhelmingly racist, but it’s entirely possible.

    2. I had a funny link, but the spam filter apparently takes a dim view on the subject of human/dolphin anal sex.

      1. I’m pretty sure we didn’t want to see that anyways so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

      2. Like that one dolphin special where a bottle-nose tries to repeatedly ass-rape Robin Williams?

  4. THEY TOOK UR BRIBES

  5. Pat Robertson – Helping non-Christians feel morally superior since 1960.

    1. Anyone who doesn’t feel morally superior to Pat Robertson has definite cognitive disabilities.

  6. To me it’s just more evidence that religions are a nuisance.

    1. It’s odd that Reason didn’t mention the Molly Norris story.

      You see, the Christian fundies are a nuisance, but Muslims extremists are something far worse. It’s worth pointing out.

      1. Maybe. On the other hand, Molly Norris hasn’t been attacked, so maybe people just freak out about Muslims in a way they don’t about Christians or Environmentalists or other religions.

        1. Everybody seemed pretty freaked out about a guy who threatened to (GASP!) burn some books.

          1. I thought that was still a Muslim freakout — he was going to burn a book, and all the Muslims would rise up and murder us in our sleep, or something.

      2. KPres, Reason did mention the Molly Norris story when it first came out. You missed it.

    2. Holy Moral Equivalence, Batman!

      Someone who asks permission to build a mosque for a Muslim congregation is just as much a nuisance as the jerks trying to stop them from exercising their religious freedom.

  7. Murfreesboro has a bunch of bigots. When my Iranian wife and I ate at an IHOP there, the waiter threw the plate down in front of her. At first I thought it was an accident, but when it happened at another restruant in Tennesee and it’s never happened anywhere else, I believe both cases were deliberate.

    1. Just curious, how could he tell that your wife was Iranian? Or did he just see olive skin and think “heathen”?

      1. Was she wearing any university clothing other than that of UT or maybe Vandy? I could see them poisoning you for that.

      2. It may have been the Iranian flag she had on a pole strapped to her back, along with the shirt she was wearing with the face of Mamood Ahmadinajad on it. Or the bumper sticker on their car that said “Republican Guard FTW!”

        1. Chicks with battle standards, now THATS what I’m talkin bout!

      3. Judging by most persian ladies I’ve met, he was probably just jealous of bookworm.

        1. That’s a slippery slope. In my experience, Persian chicks are either strikingly beautiful, or dog ass ugly.

        2. The second plate dropper was a girl.

          1. Southern lesbians are the biggest racists.

      4. They might have thought she was Mexican and were also prejudiced against Mexicans.

    2. Impressive. How did they both know to throw the plate down, instead of some other disapproving behavior? (Raised eyebrows, harumphs, snide under the breath comment, over billing for drinks, etc.)

      1. Maybe it’s a conspiracy. The “throw the plate at foreigners” conspiracy.

    3. I can’t speak to the particulars of Tennessee, but I doubt the level of bigotry there is significantly higher there than anywhere else.

      1. Nashville is quite a citified city (mostly). Sounds weird, but it’s actually pretty cosmopolitan. There are people there from all over. Did you know it has the nation’s largest Kurdish population? And there are plenty of Vietnamese, Chinese, Indian, African and the like. Murfreesboro is about 30 miles out, but I doubt it’s much different overall. But damn, I guess the vandalism and threats to this mosque prove that wrong.

        1. but I doubt the level of bigotry there is significantly higher there than anywhere else

          So, It’s chock-full of racists?

        2. There is a huge Iranian population in Middle Tennessee. You probably had pissed-off servers. I’m Turkish, basically indistinguishable from an Iranian, and I’ve never had any problems in Murfreesboro.

          1. That’s different. Tennessee depends on the music industry, and Turks run the music industry, as indicated by Ahmet Ertegun –

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ertegun

            So they were just *scared* of you, lest you sabotage their careers as singer-songwriters (which they probably are if they’re trying to be waiters until they make it big).

            So they simply fear you, it’s not a matter of liberal tolerance.

          2. Also a lot of Iraqis.

          3. My wife, being from Southern Iran, (Abadan) is darker than Northern Iranians who look more like Turks.

        3. Kurds!? No whey.

      2. I’ve noticed that certain localities tend to have more bigotry than others such as the deep South. Within the deep South, there are localities that seem to be worse than others. I’ve noticed that there are a lot of bigots from around Monroe, Louisiana, but there doesn’t seem to be as much bigotry around South Louisiana.

    4. The waiters were probably Sunnis

      1. It happened 10 years before the Steve McNair incident.

    5. I was in Tennessee all last week and didn’t have any problems.

    6. Maybe you should learn to tip better.

      1. Since when do people tip before the food arrives?

    7. Bookworm, so far I’ve encountered 3 Liberal bigots in New York City this year. It’s not a Tennessee phenomenon.

      1. Liberal bigots? I thought liberals were supposed to be politically correct.

        1. Most of the bigots I’ve met in my life were Liberal. That’s problably because I’ve spent most of the life in Liberal majority municipalities, so most of the people I’ve met were Liberal. The Liberal bigots don’t recognize their bigotry, because they spend most of their time in ideological echo chambers where no one calls them on it. I grew up in a mixed family, so I quickly see through the stereotypes that Liberal bigots perpetuate.

    8. When my wife and I (well, she was my fiancee at the time) drove down to Houston after college, an Indian friend of ours drove down with us. We got some looks and seriously bad service at a Waffle House in Chattanooga.

      1. That probably wasn’t racism. It was just Waffle House.

    9. That’s just standard Tennesse service. Had similar experiences at IHOPs in Chattanooga, Gatlinburg, and Memphis. Stayed at a hotel in Memphis, went to their restaurant, sat for half an hour watching waitress/busboy mating rituals(comparing fake nails and trying to grab ass) before my attempt at self service coffee got me yelled at(but it didn’t get me coffee–I got that myself while the staff watched).

      I think your best bet is ‘don’t eat out in Tennesse’.

  8. The project was greenlit under a recent Tennessee law called the Tennessee Religious Freedom Act, passed to make it easier for religious organizations to get around local zoning laws to build houses of worship.

    If I’m looking around for First Amendment violations here, I don’t have to look any further than that law, which strikes me as a textbook example of “establishment of religion.”

    1. One day a post like this will read: the Tennessee Titties and Ass Freedom Act allowing strip organizations to get around local zoning laws.

      1. Does the law favor any one religion over any other? If not, then it’s constitutional.

        1. That’s certainly the narrowest reading of the clause. I think that preferring religion generally over secular is a violation; I don’t see why limiting your preference to a particular sect is necessary.

    2. I think it’s fine as written, just not under that guy’s retarded interpretation of it.

      It is preventing douchebags like him from preventing free exercise of religion using zoning laws.

      1. You’re saying that the government should legally be allowed to privilege religious things over secular things? While it’s not technically establishment of a specific religion, it doesn’t seem legit to me.

        1. It’s not necessarily giving religious buildings privilege over secular, just making them easier to be built.

          It’s still a dumb law, though.

          1. Yes. But the even dumber law is the one that creates the restrictions to begin with. In total this law is a net positive in that it lessens government. The problem with this law is that it restricts the lessening of restrictions to religious buildings.

        2. It’s a matter of treating religious buildings like all buildings that don’t have a direct negative impact on surrounding property (i.e. a pig farm) should be treated in the first place, so I don’t worry so much about it being privilege, though I see how it could be (and that was certainly the intent.)

          But when you see it in the context of this case, it’s obviously preventing people from using zoning laws to stifle the First Amendment rights of others, so I have to say it’s a good law in that sense.

          While obviously it would be preferable to just get rid of or severely limit zoning laws, having this law is better than not having it.

          1. like all buildings that don’t have a direct negative impact on surrounding property (i.e. a pig farm) should be treated

            You ever seen the traffic/parking situation at a church?

            1. Ah, the usual bullshit excuse that zoning boards try to use. If that were a valid excuse, then any business that lots of people wanted to patronize could be prevented from opening.

              1. Well that puts the Florida Marlins in the clear.

                1. Don’t you know their new tax-payer funded stadium will bring millions of people to visit Florida in the summer?

                  Correlation always equals causation right?

                2. We’re out of rim shots at the moment. Would you take a cymbal crash instead?

        3. The government is not allowed to set up one religion and give it preferential treatment over all others.

          The government is allowed to clear away or eliminate their own infringements upon religious rights, even if that means religious organizations wind up more free than secular establishments so burdened.

          1. I don’t really see this. The claim is that the government can privilege belief in an invisible sky man over belief in the lack of an invisible sky man.

            Any way you parse this you are left with edge cases. Times when the government will separate the “properly” religious from the “charlatans” who are in it for the tax break and must be spanked for their presumptuousness.

            Sure, this is so far down the scale of tyranny as to be invisible, but it is an inescapable philosophical problem.

            And certainly, more freedom is better than less. But should that freedom really depend on the message you deliver on [holy day] [morning|afternoon|evening]?

            1. No, that’s not the point. Localities are allowed to deny building permits for a variety of reasons. It’s dumb, but it is Constitutional. They are not, however, allowed to deny on the basis of not wanting a particular religion to have a building, as that is unconstitutional religious discrimination.

    3. Wouldn’t tax-exempt status also apply, under this dubious interpretation? State education vouchers that can be used anywhere, including parochial schools? Expemting the Amish from FICA taxes and the Pledge of Alligence?

      Any law that allows any person or organization, religous or otherwise, to get around the stranglehold of zoning laws should be applauded.

      1. —“Expemting the Amish from… the Pledge of Alligence?”—

        Isn’t everyone exempt from the Pledge of Allegiance?

        1. There you go, making me break out my Constitutional law stuff that I haven’t looked at in 20 years.

          My bad, it was the Jehovas, back in 1940, when the pledge was compulsory. The Amish were exempted from compulsory edumacation in Yoder.

          Just the same, the larger point remains: exempting a religious organization from one law or another is not in violation of the Establishment Clause. Showing favoritism to just Episcopalians might do that, but having a law that loosens zoning regs to any relegion ain’t it.

          1. What law requires anybody to say the Pledge of Allegiance?

            1. I don’t recall specifically.

              But, I also forgt that it wasn’t Minersville, but it was Barnette that overturned it that exempted the Jehovas.

            2. “””What law requires anybody to say the Pledge of Allegiance?””

              Does the law need to require saying it?

              From Wiki
              “The phrase “under God” was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress amending ?7 of the Flag Code enacted in 1942.[14]

              Congress changing the text to include the phrase is government promoting religion.

              1. Interestingly the Jehovah’s Witness’s case was fourteen years before the adding of the phrase “under God”.

                Their objection apparently was to the act of pledging allegiance itself and to the compulsion.

    4. If I’m looking around for First Amendment violations here, I don’t have to look any further than that law, which strikes me as a textbook example of “establishment of religion.”

      Perhaps if you read it, you would see that it does the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does, and in fact explicitly refers to and defends the First Amendment and the similar religious freedom guarantees in the Tennessee constitution

      Shorter response: RTF PDF.

      1. Come now, prolefeed, don’t get in the way of RC’s anti-mosque “argument”.

      2. Seriously, dude, what makes you think I want to read some statute?

        The problem with the statute is this: If a comparable building of some secular purpose couldn’t be built on that site, because it can’t trump the law with mere free exercise of commerce or association, then that statute gives religious activities a preference over secular activities.

        And that strikes me as “establishing” religion.

        The general rule, as I recall, is that laws of general applicability do not violate the free exercise clause when they restrict religious activity. I don’t believe they need to meet strict scrutiny to pass free exercise muster (absent a statute like this, of course).

        1. If I tell my kid’s public school he can’t take a standardized test on Saturday because we’re going to an amusement park, they’ll tell me tough shit.

          If I tell them that he can’t take the standardized test on Saturday because we’re Jews, they are required by law to make an accommodation (unless there’s reason to believe I’m lying).

          1. How does this have anything to do with building? Good god your analogies suck.

    5. Don’t forget the First Amendment, which also protects religious freedom.

    6. Agreed, RC Dean. We should increase freedom for all rather than put religious institutions in a special category.

    7. Giving a religious organization in general some kind of advantage over secular ones, like giving some kind of “trump” over local zoning laws that, say, a 7-11 or yoga studio wouldn’t get is not, by a long shot, “establishing” religion.

      The “establishment” of religion means just that – to make religion a part of the establishment – i.e., an official government church, ala the Church of England.

      The Constitution prevents government from setting up – establishing – an official government church. It does not prevent government from recognizing or acknowleding religion, or from even allowing religious entities certain breaks that other, secular organizations do not get.

      I don’t see why religious organizations should be exempt from income tax, but they generally are, and I don’t believe that is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

      1. Tennessee doesn’t have any 7-11’s (which is not at all relevant to your statement, but the lack of 7-11 makes me sad.)

  9. I don’t know if Pat Robertson is secretly wicked gay, but it’s very very possible.

    1. I don’t know if Pat Robertson was once a 15th level priest of Torm, and it seems a rather silly thing to accuse him of.

    2. Sage, you’re homophobic for trying to use “gay” as an insult.

  10. Silly me, I thought this story would have something to do with Civil War battlefields.

    1. Funny, that was my first thought, too.

    2. Oh, it does…

    3. Stones River is a pretty nice battlefield.

      1. One of the more visitor-friendly battlefield sites I’ve been too. Nice little museum to put everything in context, and a quick 30-45 minute walk takes you through all the key sites.

        I still preferred Chickamauga, though.

        1. Hard to beat Chickamauga or any of the battles around Chattanooga. If you head west on I-40 from Nashville, Shiloh is a couple of hours away and is also very nice.

  11. You’d think electing a black Muslim with deep historical ties to Black liberation theology would have progressed the religious wars. Damn you George W Bush for attaching Ground Zero where Obama wanted to build his mosque.

    1. obvious troll is obvious

      1. Not so obvious you couldn’t miss the sarcasm.

        1. Obviously you missed the original meaning of the word troll.

  12. “I don’t know whether anybody is getting a pay-off, but it’s entirely possible,” Robertson told his audience.

    No doubt right before he broke for a donation request.

    1. He’ll never top Oral Roberts.
      “Donate or God will kill me”* is my favorite TV huckster strategy of all time.

      * Paraphrased

      1. He is dead. Clearly people didnt donate enough.

        1. Huh, Oral was a member of the Choktaw Nation.

      2. Bruce Wolf, a sportscaster in Chicago, had a great line back when this happened. Loyola was playing Oral Roberts in basketball and Wolf opened up the highlights by saying “Oral Roberts said today that if his basketball team didn’t score 70 points, god would kill him.”

  13. I’ve been away from that area since 1966, and stories like this make me feel so good I’m away. Actually Cincinnati is not far enough.

    1. Nice trade you made there.

  14. RC-

    On the other side of the coin, though, could somebody argue that onerous zoning regulations that hinder the construction of houses of worship constitute interference in the free exercise of religion?

    1. They could. And they might not be wrong.

      But does not a law making it easy for a church to get a zoning variance while subjecting, say, the Murfreesboro Chess Club, Charitable Clothing Closet and Debating Society to the full weight of the zoning ordinances constitute a government endorsement of religion? Is that a problem under the establishment clause and if not, why and where do you draw the line?

      1. No more than public schools exempting Jewish students from taking standardized tests on Saturday, exempting Jews and Muslims from anti-hat policies at public schools, etc.

        1. Tulpa, we should allow all students to wear hats in school. I don’t think you need to prove your religion to take the Saturday SAT. You just sign up for the date that you want.

      2. I don’t care if it’s an establishment of religion or not, if it’s a way to get more people more free, I’m for it. It doesn’t make anybody less free than they were before. Would you have been against the laws that made it illegal to have non-black slaves? The laws didn’t make anybody less free, and made some people more free. I’m for more and better loopholes, all the time.

        1. Please don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m suggesting that the church should abide by too heavy zoning. The proper solution is to do away with the unnecessary burden for all.

        2. Robert, if you allow loop holes for special groups, you end up with less freedom, because you eliminate the pressure to repeal bad laws. In a few generations, you end up with a two tier legal system with rights for a select few and oppression for the rest.

    2. could somebody argue that onerous zoning regulations that hinder the construction of houses of worship constitute interference in the free exercise of religion?

      I made that argument like a year ago when a church was trying to get a permit to build in commercial ag zoning.

      I was laughed at by the county commissioners….but after they laughed they permitted the church and changed the regulation that prohibited it.

    3. That’s pretty much the gist of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

  15. What’s the difference between a “mosque and community center” and a “community center with a mosque?”

    1. If there’s a public outcry against a mosque, then it’s “a community center with a mosque”. If a legal loophole allows only houses of worship on a site, then it’s “a mosque and community center”.

  16. This is really scary.

  17. To quote myself:

    “I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that’s the way it is, period”

    Now Christian sharia, that’s something I could get behind.

    1. Especially that “headship” – yeah, get on it, honey!

    2. Don’t be married or don’t be a fucked-up Christian (as opposed to a decent one).

      There, that was easy.

  18. Some [local residents] contended Muslims were here to replace local government with Sharia Law.

    Does it make me a bad person to wonder how these selfsame residents votes on Tennessee Amendment 1 in 2006? And if they have any other designs to get their theology enshrined in civil law?

    1. Actually, I suspect a lot of fundamentalist Christians would be just fine with most of Sharia Law.

      If Sharia Law were renamed “Protecting Family Values Law” and put on the ballot as an initiative, it would get most of the Fundamentalist Christian vote.

      1. If Sharia Law were renamed “The Protect America from Sharia Law Act” and put on the ballot as an initiative, it would get most of the Fundamentalist Christian vote.

        1. Not only that, it would get most of the Idiot Vote, which is an overwhelming majority these days.

          1. First there would be sheep-fucker jokes. From the idiots.

      2. +1

        (and if you read these threads, you can see all the “christians are persecuted. atheists make our lives a living hell” whiners givin out the what-fer they think they’re getting. how charming!)

        1. It’s more amusing watching the silence from the gallery. I remember when every post on evolution v creationism got over a hundred posts from people complaining about religion taking over. The vast majority of those posters are too cowardly to say anything about legal preference given based on religion when Muslims are involved.

  19. Did grylliade break down or something?

    1. Every once in a while, they descend down into the gutter to restore their sense of self-righteous satisfaction over having left.

      I tried hanging out there, but everyone was so polite and erudite it made my skin crawl.

      1. Come play with us SugarFree.

        Forever

        and ever

        and ever

      2. Actually, your skin wouldn’t crawl if you showered more frequently.

        ;P

        1. But then all the other librarians would shun him. They didn’t work this hard to achieve social outcast status, just to have it thrown back in their faces with frequent and proper grooming.

      3. Same here. Not remotely enough insanity and idiotic madness for my tastes.

        1. Being an internet polymath I’m comfortable in both worlds. Trading barbs with y’all, mocking both political parties and their oh so transparent fanboys while tossing insults at the pathetic trolldom that reason invariably attracts is fun.

          OTOH, people post well thought out 5,000 word comments over there about difficult and complex subjects that they actually wrote themselves. And we have parties.

          You and SugarFree are always welcome to stop by and lighen up the place if you think it needs it.

        2. “Not remotely enough insanity and idiotic madness”

          For an obscure clique of wise asses who revel in nonsense, you get awfully bent out of shape when others disagree with you. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously? Trying to have it both ways diminishes whatever credibility you might have had.

    2. nah. the Noam Chomsky Blow Up Doll is in the shop.

  20. I have to defend Tennessee here, because I love this state.

    First of all, this particular story line could happen anywhere else in the country because in a nation with 300 million people you don’t have to look far to find a group of crazy insecure people. Some of the people handle their insecurity by practicing bigotry and intolerance. Suffice to say this is not unique to Tennessee, or even America. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.

    Here are two stories of various groups that have protested in support of the Mosque’s construction.

    http://www.mtsusidelines.com/n…..-1.1547311

    http://www.dnj.com/article/20100914/NEWS05/100914033

    So before you pat yourself on the back for feeling all superior to a bunch of inbred bigots in Tennessee, keep in mind that this is not particularly unique to Tennessee and that there are also a majority of people in Tennessee who are NOT intolerant bigots, despite what the media may tell you.

    1. My commie ex-gf is one of the many mosque defenders there. I always enjoyed my time the ‘boro. It is a friendly and fun college town convenient to Nashville.

    2. I live in Knoxville (transplanted), and I’d say, yes, there’s a lot more inbred bigots here then where I used to live in Virginia.

      Aside from that, it’s almost a Libertarian paradise. No income tax, very little bureaucratic red tape, not many cops (also not much crime…chicken or the egg?).

      I take the good with the bad.

      1. “I’d say, yes, there’s a lot more inbred bigots here then where I used to live in Virginia.”

        I don’t know where you grew up in VA, but I grew up in Boston, and there are just as many insecure bigots in that town as there are in Nashville. People often forget that once you get a hundred or so miles out of most major cities, hicks are hicks whether their from Maine or Alabama.

        I’d be curious as to who has more “racially motivated” crime statistics, VA or TN, but I think those statistics are sort of bullshit to begin with so whatever.

        I think the racism in the south is different in that there is still a lot of hangover to this day from the civil war. But for every racist inbred redneck hillbilly you show me in TN, I’ll show you a southie thug who’s just a bigoted and insecure as anyone down south.

        1. Very well put. But you don’t have to go even close to a hundred miles outside of any major city to find the bumpkins 🙂

        2. I can attest from 35 years of personal experience that northern NJ is full of racists – of light-skinned as well as dark-skinned varieties.

          In fact, I encountered more incidents of blatant racism in northern NJ and Pittsburgh (freshman year of college, when a bunch of black kids surrounded a couple of us, muttering racial epithets and cursing at us) than I have yet to experience in eight years in central VA (Richmond area).

        3. Why do you have to leave any city? Do any of you seriously believe that ‘cities’ are somehow exempt from having inbred idiots? That anyone is exempt from this? Ask Prince Charles about inbred idiocy–not only does he live in a city, but he supports the mosque–AND is, himself, an inbred idiot.

          People make fun of ‘hicks’ all the time. West Virginia gets called a bastion of inbred idiocy–but it’s liberal Maryland that allows cousin marriage….which is illegal in W.Va.

    3. we’ll see. if this project fails, then your wonderful, enlightened non bigots sure caved in.

  21. I volunteered and joined the Army, and I served as an 11B Infantryman. Most of my time in the field was in squad or platoon size operations. We would have discussions about what we were fighting for. It always came back to the “Bill of Rights”. To me the most important was “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?”
    What did our Founding Fathers have to say about religion:
    “Question with boldness even the existence of a god.” – Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787):
    “All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason;
    “Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”, John Madison;
    “Lighthouses are more helpful than Churches”, Benjamin Franklin

    1. Why were you fighting for the bill of rights in a foreign country?

      Well, anyway, did you get them to adopt the bill of rights or what?

      1. Because if we don’t stop terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan, it will reach us in America.

    2. why did you drop the “ville” from your last name?

      and you do realize that you were only an actor in SoCal, pretending to be in Korea.

      right. right?

  22. There’s this brand of Christianity that makes me want to run around kicking practitioners in the nuts. It shouldn’t be possible to simultaneously hold that Christians are woefully marginalized – the last acceptable targets of discrimination and “We should set fires on the construction site where them mooslims is buildin’ their devil house.”

    1. the really weird bit is “this could be ANYTHING” – because if you wanted to hide a bunch of radical muslims pushing a radical agenda, tennessee would be your first choice every time.

      1. Admittedly, if you hid those radical muslims in a place with a cross outside and they put their women in prairie dresses instead of hijabs, Tennessee would be the perfect place.

  23. Islam is a political party (a world wide Caliphate is their goal) disguised as a religion.

    Team B Report on Sharia [pdf]

    1. So is Catholicism.

      1. When the Catholics start a program of suicide bombing I’ll start to take them more seriously.

        1. So the regular old terrorism of the IRA doesn’t bother you?

          1. Naw, ’cause that’s just good ol’ Christian homicide bombing!

        2. plus they like to stick it in young boys, too. they strike a balance.

    2. Islam is a political party (a world wide Caliphate is their goal) disguised as a religion.

      Aaaah! The ignorance! The rampant stupidity! It burns us thinking people, yes it does.

      You’re really worried about that dreaded Turkey, Somalia, Bosnia and Indonesian alliance aren’t you? I swear, you could take everything you know about Islam and the state of the world, put it in a thimble and still have room for your finger.

      1. You came to this conclusion after reading the information he linked to, right?

        1. I glanced at the link, scanned a couple of pages. A bunch of bedwetters worried about a system of justice that only matters in Iran. I have neither thr time nor patience to read every piece of right/left wing drivel on the internet posted by a “think tank”.

          I’m almost as worried about Sharia as an ideology as I am about Juche. IOW,
          excuse me if I don’t get my tits in a flutter over this non-issue.

          However, I do want you to feel free to piss your own pants over the issue.

      2. Which finger?

      3. Turkey and Indonesian have many oppressive laws that are inspired by Islam. They also treat non-Muslims as second class citizens. Somalia has been in the middle of a civil war, because Muslim rebels want to take over and enact sharia law.

        1. i love how things are so simple! what amazing analysis. it really is that simple.

          care to apply it to the social/ christian conservatives hier at home?

          i’ll start: the anti-sodomy laws, fortunately the Lawrence case helped out, but that’s from liburl, activist judges. what was the inspiration for that law? see? simple.

          you were a twaddlenock back in the day, and I can see that the cialis and rogane haven’t helped your demeanor.

          1. Wow. The sole complaint you can come up with was a law that got struck down about a decade ago. No, it’s not that simple, but space limitations require me to start with a summary and only elaborate when someone responds to the summary. Anyone who bothers to read my website knows where I stand, so I feel no reason to apologize to you for my positions. You made a knee jerk assumption about me and resorted to personal insults, because I dared to mention cases of oppressive laws in Muslim majority countries and attacks against non-Muslims in those countries. If you want to challenge one my statements, go ahead. However, I have a feeling you’re not up to the task.

            1. oh no no no.

              The URKOBOLD told me to write that, under threat of withered taint!!!

            2. Dude, I grew up non-Baptist in South Carolina. It’s a different in degree, not in kind.

              1. Ah, so you were prohibited, by law, from practicing your religion? Or do you not understand what’s being said?

    3. The only difference between religion and ideology in general is that religion likes to talk more about magic, spirits, and the afterlife. When it comes to the ways in which they seek to dominate other people, force their ethos on them, and shackle their minds, there isn’t usually much difference.

    4. All you bloody Americans are terrorist!

  24. the husband is the head of the wife

    Could you describe that position a little more graphically?

  25. I would enjoy watching the forces of the World Wide Caliphate go 2 out of 3 falls against the New World Order.

    1. Or the Liquefactionists.

    2. Nah, they’ll probably just merge. Have you seen the UN debates?

  26. I don’t know that many people would disagree with the idea that “Those who want to install Sharia Law are not the good guys.” I would note that there’s considerable discussion beyond that observation. Like – How many people who self identify as Muslim really want to do that? and Of the people who express a preference for sharia, how many are willing to be violent to get their way? These are important questions because, you know, only that last group would actually be the bad guys.

    1. I dunno, I’m pretty sure that installing Sharia Law through voting is still forcing it on everyone, just in an orderly fashion.

    2. Sun God vs Moon God. Moon God lost both times ask Evander.

      Holyfield: Any time you put their God up against my God they’re going to loose.

      1. Loosing is for losers.

    3. JasonL, it depends on the country. All I can say from the statistics I read is that even in Muslim majority where over half the population supports terrorist attacks, fewer than 1 in 100,000 actually volunteer to wear the vest of dynamite.

      1. statistics? okay. maybe you have gone up in the world

        man i gotta tell ya, this is better than coffee. just waiting to see what nugget.

        hay RC – is CH in the EU yet?

        1. I’m not a big fan of statistics either, so take it with a grain of salt. My point is that the number of people in any group who talk about killing others will vastly outnumber the number of people willing to put themselves at risk by doing the killing. I’ve gotten a couple of death threats online. I laugh in response to the threats, and the bullies back down.

          1. the URKOBOLD’s statistics on TAINT WITHERING are frightening indeed. And are you aware that the greater peril, the EVIL FIZIKS TYPES are even more of a danger? They abducted Mr. Steven Crane, now 69 days ago!

  27. because if you wanted to hide a bunch of radical muslims pushing a radical agenda, tennessee would be your first choice every time.

    I would have gone for Texas, if I wanted to hide a terrorist cell. Oil, guns, desert, religious fundamentalists, sounds like a good place for the terrorists to blend in.

    The ones who like the snow of Afghanistan might do well in Alaska.

    If they came to Los Angeles, we’d mellow them out. And even with Saudi financing I doubt they could afford NYC rents.

    1. There was that whole funding-of-hamas thing in Richardson, so they may be way ahead of you.

      But they’re going to be fighting with the rest of the nut jobs, and most importantly the governor, for who’s-the-biggest-Religio-douchebags

    2. There was that whole funding-of-hamas thing in Richardson, so they may be way ahead of you.

      But they’re going to be fighting with the rest of the nut jobs, and most importantly the governor, for who’s-the-biggest-Religio-douchebags

    3. How about Fort Hood? They’ll never spot them there.

    4. I remember the LA riots. I don’t think LA is that mellow. Oh, and the terrors cells are flush with cash. They can easily afford NYC rents.

  28. Kevin Fisher was scheduled to speak but had to leave due to health problems.

    Translation: Too chickenshit to stand up for his own bigotry.

  29. They should be glad it’s not the Scientologists. Next thing you know people will be giving Stress Tests all over the place and signing billion year contracts for Sea Org.

    1. There is no Terl but one Terl and John Travolta is his prophet.

      Of course, if it were scientologists, 9/11 would have been terrorists flying 707s into a volcano.

  30. When visiting Murfreesboro, I highly recommend you eat at the Kleer-Vu and the Slick Pig. Chicken and dressing with hot water cornbread at the former, smoked wings at the latter.

  31. I’m conflicted on this one: one the one hand, the argument that the mosque isn’t a “church” is the most idiotic form of bigotry;
    On the other hand, why should a church – or mosque – be allowed to make an end run around zoning laws?
    On the other hand, zoning laws are stupid.
    On the other hand…oh, the hell with it, where’s my propeller hat…

    1. I don’t see what the issue is here. There should be no zoning laws, there should be nothing to stop people from building mosques on property they own.

      1. “No” zoning laws whatsoever?

        So I’ll just buy up the land next to your house and set up my hog rendering/fiberboard carton plant.

        I’m sure you’ll have no complaint about that.

        Feel free to tell me you’re going to revoke my libertarian card, but not every single zoning ordinance is stupid and there are indeed some – *some* – legitimate reasons to have a degree of zoning. Which is why they arose in the first place.

        1. Yeah, as long as you do no direct harm to my property, I have no right to stop you from doing it.

          Libertarianism: not that hard to figure out.

        2. There’s always a reason to control other people’s property; that doesn’t make it right.

    2. It shouldn’t be that other people are restricted by the zoning laws, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the mosque should be allowed.

  32. In related news, America’s Lap Dog is still executing Arabs for the “crime” of selling land to Jews.

    http://www.israelnationalnews……spx/139709

    1. It’s time for America to stop propping up the PA.

  33. I’ve been to TN many times. Was there really a problem getting churches built in the first place? They are freaking everywhere. How many more do they need?

  34. Having just briefly passed through TN, I may speak confidently with absolute authority in regard to the current atmosphere in the Volunteer State. The people there are obsessed with one thing and one thing only: Dolly Parton.

    (Perhaps I should mention that we were driving through the Smokies? Naw, unnecessary.)

    1. sure you were in TN and not driving through the Grand Ta Tas Teutons?

      1. Like I said earlier, we are all out of rim shots. The cymbal crash was already offered to Voros. Perhaps you’d like a nice paradiddle?

  35. I blame liberal media.

  36. “The project was greenlit under a recent Tennessee law called the Tennessee Religious Freedom Act, passed to make it easier for religious organizations to get around local zoning laws to build houses of worship.”

    Why are religious organizations shown favoritism by the TN government?

    1. Because the majority of peeples there are full of religiosity and are in favor of such favoritism.

      As is true for the U.S. as a whole.

  37. Great job here. I really enjoyed what you had to say. Keep going because you definitely bring a new voice to this subject. Not many people would say what you’ve said and still make it interesting. Well, at least I’m interested.

  38. All the horrors of threaded comments are squarely at the feet of the World Wide Caliphate. For this, we cannot forgive them.

  39. does it ture FETUYUBDG ????

  40. god is help you IFDFBEBUD

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