Reason.tv: The Road to CanadaCare? Sally Pipes on The Truth About ObamaCare

Now that they've passed ObamaCare, can we see what's in it? 

Sally Pipes, president and CEO of the Pacific Research Institute and author of The Truth About ObamaCare sits down with Ted Balaker to discuss what's really on the way courtesy of the recent health care overhaul: higher costs, decreased access to care, and the looming spectre of a single-payer system in America.

Pipes, who hails from Canada, worries that ObamaCare has set the U.S. on a path toward a Canadian-style system. She weighs in on if and how ObamaCare could be repealed and what should replace it.

Approximately six minutes.

Interview by Ted Balaker. Shot by Alex Manning and Paul Detrick. Edited by Austin Bragg.

Go to reason.tv for HD, iPod, and audio versions of this and all our videos, and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube channel to receive automatic notification when new material goes live.

Comments

[Tony]

What an evil cunt!

[Fiscal Meth]

What a beneficent, life giving labia!

[canada goose jackets]

I thought it was going to be some boring old post, but it really compensated for my time. I will post a link to this page on my blog. I am sure my visitors will find that very useful

[Eleanor Clift]

Ungrateful free-healthcare-receiving Canadian!!11!!!1one!!

[frog in a pot]

Funny Obamacare is 100% republican heritage foundation ideas,including the Mandates.

[Fiscal Meth]

Funnier still... this ain't the Heritage Foundation. And we don't capitalize the word mandate for no good reason neither!

[frog in a pot]

Funnier still is the Koch brothers fund both this magazine and Heritage.

[tpaine]

May I suggest you google "hedge fund managers" "billion dollar bonus" and see who pops up.
You'll find George Soros and eight other big time Demcorats
"Party of the Little Guy" my fanny.
Thanks for the double digit unemployment and 20% of Americans now living in poverty.
Been a GREAT four years.

[Domo Jones]

Oh wow that makes a lot of sense dude.

http://www.anon-vpn.us.tc

[frog in a pot]

When Rep. Bruce Braley (D-IA) asked health care crisis denier Sally Pipes about her credentials to testify as "an expert" on health care issues before the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Health, Pipes' lack of any serious background in health care policy exposed her real function. You see, Pipes doesn't hold a masters degree in health policy or public policy. Nor she does have much experience in academia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhjZZ_Uc_Ks

LOL!!

[Greer]

And of course only authorities with degrees from the right schools have the right to opine on public policy or to research and share what they learn.

That's half the problem, they only listen to 'authorities'.

[frog in a pot]

How about a least a degree in the field on which she wants to form policy?

Too much to ask?
Guess so.

[Get Real]

What degree does Obama have in healthcare policy? Or Pelosi? Or Baucus? Or Biden?

Why not take it from somebody who lived it? Academics, like politicians, are cossetted and live in an unreal universe, where their every need is paid for, usually by taxpayers who don't get anywhere near the benefits the elites get in their ivory towers. Obama's promises come out of his own mouth, right on the video, and they are proving to be untrue.

[Eleanor Clift]

Agreed! When I asked Nancy Pelosi what her expertise was in healthcare allowing her to write a law which changed the healthcare system for millions of Americans, she replied with, "Look! A piano in a tree!"

[frog in a pot]

Nancy Pelosi and others have these things called hearings.They happen in a place called Washington.They gather all sorts of experts to testify about all sorts of policy decisions.You know to try to help them try make the best decision.And they have all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds with all sorts of policy ideas.

[Jen]

And then they completely ignore everything the experts say so they can go back to living in their fairy-tale worlds.

[frog in a pot]

They also have degrees in law.You know because they write them.It does help if you have a passing understanding in the subject you have as a career.That might be over your head.

[Doctor K]

"They also have degrees in law.You know because they write them.It does help if you have a passing understanding in the subject you have as a career."

How many quotes from politicians saying they didn't read the laws they just passed...or "we'll have to pass it so you can see what's in it"...do you need...???

[frog in a pot]

Thats a seperate subject.They fill bill with so many amendments and pork they wind up being thousands of pages.Nobody can read them all.And all it can take is one line like the Enron loopehole{snuck into the NAFTA bill in the middle of the night after everyone went home}to create a catastrophe for a state like californis.

Its a big problem but a different subject.

[Get Real]

Assume you've read the 2300 page "law" that they cobbled together. Even these wonderful brainiacs, with their "degrees in law," don't know what's in it.

[Death Panelist]

Exactly. She's not even a registered lobbyist or an attorney. Where the fuck does she get off addressing Congress at all?

[frog in a pot]

I wish they would hurry up with those death panels.And those FEMA camps.
Im waiting!!!

[Death Panelist]

Not really much of a rebuttal, but okay.

Ironic screen names aside, why do leftists think they will somehow be spared from the very predictable effects of rationing?

[frog in a pot]

We have rationing now.What planet do you hail from?

[frog in a pot]

Shes not a health policy expert either.
But she is a shill.Pacific Research Institute?Anouther Koch brothers front.Like Cato and this magazine. Pipes leads this tiny 'think tank,' Pacific Research Institute, and advances corporate interest (PRI's list of donors include Altria (formerly known as Philip Morris), Microsoft, Pfizer and ExxonMobil) agendas. PRI promotes itself a s "free-market" think tank.Yeah right!
So why doesnt she ever talk about constructive ways we're going to reduce preventable medical errors and lower overall health care ?Because she doesnt care about improving the system.Just maintaining the status quo.you know the status quo that on its own will bancrupt the country?

[Ron L]

frog in a pot|9.9.10 @ 3:38PM|#
"...You see, Pipes doesn't hold a masters degree in health policy or public policy...."
Uh, this has nothing to do with "healthcare" and doctors ought to keep their yaps shut. This is about the economic distribution of healthcare. Do you propose to ask a cobler what 'public policies' should assure everyone gets repaired shoes?

"Nor she does have much experience in academia..."
Uh, right. And "Purple" too! Do you think there's an argument buried in your innuendo?

[frog in a pot]

Interesting.The knownothings have no interest in expertice or science.There is something to be said for research and standards.Being able to have your healthcare policy ideas published in peer reviewed journals at least shows you have put forth some measure of quantifiable thought into your position and have facts and figures to back it up.Facts and figures that have been reviewed by other policymakers in the same field.

You know as opposed to a partisan hack with no expertice but lots of ancedotes and opinions.

I know what I prefer.

[hee]

I prefer "expertise" to be spelled correctly.

[frog in a pot]

Thank you.

Because spelling has fuck all to do with IQ.But OK.If it made you feel better about yourself.Im sure you need every little bit you can get.

[Dagny T.]

Single-payer on the federal level would be even worse than CanadaCare, which is at least administered on a more manageable provincial level. Hence you get Alberta with more choice & privatization, and other provinces with less.

Canadian health care story (I've got a million of 'em!): recently, my mum was on the waiting list for a very necessary back surgery, without which she could barely walk, let alone work. The waiting list for the public system was over 6 months. Fortunately, the private insurance from her employer agreed to cover it, so she switched to a private surgeon. She called him and was scheduled for the following week, and had a great outcome at his clean and pleasant private facilities.

I remember a lot of hand-wringing over the "unfairness" of a "two-tiered" system whenever privatization came up, but I know which tier I want my family in.

[Nancy Pelosi]

great outcome at his clean and pleasant private facilities.

This does not compute.

[Episiarch]

But what does your mom think of privatization as opposed to socialized medicine now?

[Jorj X. McKie]

Unfortunately, her back felt so good after surgery she went on that skydiving trip she had always planned on. She landed in a pool of maple syrup and drowned.

[frog in a pot]

If its SOOOOOO bad why dont you guys vote it away?

I know why.
And what makes you think we in the US dont have to wait for specialists and specialty surgery?

[It's called...]

...supply and demand. The AMA has limited the supply and the general shitty quality of general practitioners(mine thought a pinched nerve = Lou Gehrig's disease. That shit cost me a year of my life in stress alone) have increased demand for specialists, whom the media/AMA/authorities/diabetes-ridden relatives tell us to see anyway...because they are special. Deal with it. Oh and cutting their pay in order to bend the cost curve down is not magically going to increase supply. Pointing guns at people might...for a while.

[frog in a pot]

LOL!!
Thats funny.You think the medical field is governed by the laws of supply and demand?
You dont know much about the AMA or med schools then.

[Get Real]

Ever hear of a second opinion?

[Get Real]

Experience makes us think this. Waiting a couple of weeks to get on the operating theater schedule is not the same as waiting a couple of months, or years.

My friend, age 69, died in Canada waiting for surgery. And the reason he died was because he had to wait too long for the right tests that diagnosed him.

[john johnston]

This is nonsense. My brother, back surgery--3 weeks. Me--hip replacement--4 weeks. My wife--full bone marrow testing and associated tests--2 weeks. You've got a million of them. We've got 32 million of them. Canadians

[tony]

"great outcome at his clean and private facilities"
Without the government, all private hospitals would be dirty and dangerous. You're so ungrateul.

[Fiscal Meth]

I propose the-

Legislative Enforcement Act for the Verification of the Efficiency of Unfunded Subsidies in the Treatment of Health Equality and Funding Universal Care and Karate Assisted Loans for Our Needy Everyone bill

the LEAVEUSTHEFUCKALONE bill will be 138,924 pages written in a dead language so you'll have to pass it in order to find out what's in it.

vote meth!

[Wegie]

Wow an article about something new and different!

[Chris]

I live in Canada. I have been waiting 14 months to see a specialist. I only have 3 more weeks to go. Even then, I'm not entirely sure I'll get what I hope for.

"free healthcare' is better in voter rich liberal districts because govt puts most of the money there.

Still, I am sure they have to wait months too, just not 15 months.

[Lord Ballsac]

Saw my specialist in 2 days in Viriginia. Paid 100 bucks. For some reason he charges more for people with insurance. Oh well.

[Can't Spell]

Vagina..er..Virginia.

[Jeff W]

""free healthcare' is better in voter rich liberal districts because govt puts most of the money there."

Then please explain why states like BLUE liberal Conn, Mass, NY are biggest tax donor states while the Patriotic family values red states like Miss, Alabama, and Oklahoma are tax taker states?

[Isaac Bartram]

"Tony|9.9.10 @ 3:32PM|#

What an evil cunt!"

Really. Tell us why.

[Get Real]

He obviously gets a buzz of using vile, misogynist language on a site like Reason, which doesn't censor.

[frog in a pot]

Funny Obamacare is 100% republican heritage foundation ideas,including the Mandates.

Too bad most republicans arent bright enough to know it.

[COMMANDER]

TO THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAT?..Wake up america!!!! This goverment is the most corrupt we have had in years. The good old boy network is very much in charge.Mr. obama and pelosi are the puppet masters.How many of their good friends benefited by the agreement " what a farce. All of the u.sSenators voted for this. I am ashamed to say I voted for the these corupted self serving politicians.With good reason they picked an out of towner to be president.All u.s departments need an overhaul. We need to rid ourselves of the puppet masters and the dept heads that bow down to obama and pelosi.I am sick of the lip service I have been getting from these dummies over violations, their friends are getting away with.in the goverment . Barack Hussein Obama , threatens friends and bows to Mmslim.
INPEACH OBAMA ,GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.///For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain american or we come under the thumb of the communist Mmslim Barack Hussein OBAMA. This latter must not occur.THE COMMANDER

[COMMANDER]

TO THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAT?..TO ALL THE COMMUNIST IN THE IG,FBI,CIA,AND U.S. Senators and the left wing media outlets////////07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THEN Senator //Mmslim Barack Hussein Obama, was asked about his stance on the
American Flag.

General Bill Ginn USAF (ret.) asked //Mmslim Barack Hussein Obama, to explain WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played. The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171 "?During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, 'Stand and Face It'."

NOW GET THIS!! ? - ? - -
'Senator' //Mmslim Barack Hussein Obama, replied:

"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides".
"There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.."
"The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."

(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???)

//Mmslim Barack Hussein Obama, continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of warring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails ? - ? perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments."

"When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past".

"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path? My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "INPEACH OBAMA THE COMMUNIST ,GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.//////For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain american or we come under the thumb of the communist Mmslim Barack Hussein OBAMA. This latter must not occur.the commander
REPOST THIS IF YOU AGREE

[COMMANDER]

OBAMA goes about his business by speaking the lie. II Thessalonians 2 says that he comes "with all deceivableness of unrighteousness." Revelation 13:12 says, "and he spoke as a dragon?." Revelation 17 tells us that he was a false prophet, a prophet being one whose calling it is to speak and to teach. The armies of the world may have guns and tanks and bombs to bring people into submission; but the power of speech and ideas is a mighty power. In his initial attempts to destroy the cause of God, OBAMA used a serpent to deceive the woman with crooked speech: "You will be like God." Now he uses a "dragon" who speaks crafty, lying words. His speeches will be heard by millions who will hang on his persuasive rhetoric. The content as well as the form of his speech will attract. Like most false prophets, he will even be sincere and passionate. But he is a liar. He adds dashes of truth to the mix, so that his lie tastes like truth. He will use all the right catchwords, using the language of the church, even throwing in a Bible text or two. But he is the ultimate Liar, and will deceive many.
OBAMA will use every tool available: school teachers, politicians, news broadcasters, artists, musicians, scientists and doctors, lawyers and businessmen. All will be pressed into the service of OBAMA to deceive men. But especially he will use those whose calling it is to persuade and to teach ?quot; men who claim to be preachers of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
THE COMMANDER,,, REPOST THIS IF YOU AGREE .. THE END OF AMERICA

[David]

I'm an American living in Canada.

Canadacare, whatever its faults may be, is better than Obamacare.

I think Obamacare takes some of the worst features of private and public care and lumps them together. Either go public, or go private, but not both. Government expecting employers to pay for private health care is wacky. Having VA and Medicare and Medicaid and Obamacare with private healthcare insurers is insane. Do it all by government or leave it alone.

Doctrinally, purely private healthcare may be preferable, but I have no problems with the healthcare I or family members have received (caveat: I live in a large city and have no serious health problems). Arguing by anecdote rather than policy is useless - stories about one person who got great/bad/whatever care in either a public or private system doesn't tell you much about the system as a whole.

[frog in a pot]

I agree.Its a boondogggle for the private insurers and drug compaies to continue reaming us.It passed with the absolute minimum protections that deceny allows.And without at least a srtong public option there is no competition against these criminal behomoths.The sad part is even if we did get a public option the republicans and Boll weavils would under fund it and make sure it didnt work properly because they work for corporate masters not the people.They dont give a shit about the people.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

David, I'm Canadian and not sure I follow you. When you say either go "private or public not both" what do you mean exactly? Because in Canada, more and more now, it's a mix. It's essentially two-tiered now. To what degree depends on each province since health care falls under provincial jurisdiction.

Right now, Quebec, Alberta and B.C. are leading this clandestine revolution that no politician dare speak of. If they do, people will think we're dismantling the public system which it isn't.

All privatization does is give choice to those who have the means to take advantage of that option. That, in turn, can help alleviate the massive stress on the public side where, because of budgetary cuts (and Pipes is right about it. It's all based on cost-effective measures; there's no compassionate component in the system; unless merely providing it for "free" constitutes compassion is enough for some. Anyways, rationing DOES happen; as it does in the U.S. except one seems to come from the insurance side and in the case of Canada it comes from bureaucrats) there's sometimes but one doctor in an entire hospital.

So, kids wait for 20 hours with a broken arm and dislocated elbow. Then again, they can wait 45 minutes - it's all the luck of the timing. I waited four hours to pop my shoulder back in place. The longer a ligament stays stretched, the weaker it becomes.

There are pros and cons to each but right now I welcome private options. Costs were rising too much while the service were eroding. I don't think anyone at this point can deny with any straight face the system is not mismanaged. I worked behind the scenes for one year - that much is fact.

You can't compare systems from around the world since it considers and reflects the intricacies of each society. I don't know how the U.S. system works from an experience stand point but sounds to me it needed tinkering more than overhauls.

My two cents.

[frog in a pot]

Our healthcare system need a complete overhaul.Once you get sick they can raise your premiums to a point nobody can afford or knock you off completely.Then if you cant make the payment and lose your insurance there is no way you can ever find coverage again because now you have a pre-exisiting condition.Also its the insurance companies which are making more and more medical decisions based on cost not doctors recomendationsAnouther problem is we cant compete with the rest of the world who have national healthcare letting their business's worry about creating goods and jobs not healthcare.We aslo have the worst medical error record in the western world.Along with the most expencive.I could go on...

[Get Real]

The answer is to have people pay for their own insurance and get a tax deduction for it. The ability to buy across state lines would give us 1200 competitors instead of a handful. We should be able to buy catastrophic insurance for unforeseen things like accident and major illness, and then pay for office visits ourselves. As a poster above said, doctors charge less for cash patients (because there are not reams of paperwork). This type of insurance is affordable to most people. Those who still can't afford insurance would get subsidized care, AS THEY DO NOW. People with pre-existing conditions would be in an assigned risk pool which, if they needed, would be subsidized.

Private street-front clinics would be allowed, staffed by PAs and nurse practitioners, who could refer on to specialists or hospitals if something serious came in.

The only government interference would be to have laws against malpractice and fraud.

And lawyers could have their fees capped, like doctors do now.

[Jeff W]

Why don't any of the other nations who all have higher life expectancies for less money use this CONSUMER side economics approach? This CONSUMER side approach is the John Maynard Keynes solution to healthcare. Why are conservatives Keynesians when it comes to health care reform?

[tpaine]

"Statistics lie and liars use statisics." The longest lines I've seen both in Europe and Canada are not those waiting to be seated in a restaurant, theatre or play but those waiting to see a government paid "doctor."
Why would you want to destroy what everyone acknowledges is the best health care system in the world?

[Jeff W]

Oh and what do you mean by "those who still can't afford health insurance will get subsidized care, AS THEY DO NOW"? Sorry, they don't now. That's why we wanted Obamacare to give the poor & lower middle class subsidies. It's these very subsidies that conservatives hate. Oh and allowing people to purchase across state lines is the biggest lie of all. All this will do is guarantee that there will be no insurance companies selling insurance from any states except those with the most anti-consumer laws. Don't worry those, stupid white Evangelicals will buy your argument anyways.

[Get Real]

Are you kidding? What do you call Medicare and Medicaid? As far as I know, the rest of us are paying for those who can't afford it. Nobody is turned away.

[Caveats brother]

"Doctrinally, purely private healthcare may be preferable, but I have no problems with the healthcare I or family members have received (caveat: I live in a large city and have no serious health problems). Arguing by anecdote rather than policy is useless - stories about one person who got great/bad/whatever care in either a public or private system doesn't tell you much about the system as a whole."

WTF?!
David: Please read your comment again.
You don't have any serious health problems, yet you then state that "arguing by anecdote" is useless?
Yours was not a very well thought out comment.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Can you not do that without necessarily forcing people to take something they don't want?

What's with the 'one size fits all' mentality?

[Get Real]

Exactly.

[Jeff W]

Fact: Canada has a better life expectancy and spends less than half what we spend on health care. I sure hope we are on the road to CanadaCare, and no it's not because all their treatments are in the US.

[tpaine]

Jeff, I hope you're REALLY not that ignorant. Talk about apples and oranges.
This is REALLY simple: Do you want to get your health treated the same way you get treated at the DMV with all the attendant efficiency and good humor you get from all government employees (save the military & police).
If so, vote Democrat.

[Jeff W]

Our HEROIC small business owners(they are heroes who do god's HOLY work: create jobs) must compete against small business owners in other countries in this ZERO margin global marketplace. They are being crippled by the 10% overhead which is the 10% profit that insurance companies make. We can't afford to have for profit insurers who DON'T compete on the zero margin global marketplace but instead are protected by PROTECTIONIST policies add 10% overhead to every small business owner which they do.

[Get Real]

Life expectancy incorporates a lot of factors that have nothing to do with health care, for example murder/suicide, auto accidents, and - most of all - behaviors that are hazardous to our health, such as overeating and lack of exercise. None of this has anything to do with the quality of our health care. We get a ton of bang for the health care buck when it comes to survival rates for all the major cancers and heart attacks. Check out the stats. We are head and shoulders above most of the other western countries.

[Get Real]

As one who experienced the health care systems of the U.S., Britain and Canada, I can tell you whose health care system I prefer.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I tend to see it like Get Real on this one. Canadian health is not as bad as people paint it to be, but it's not what's cracked up to be either. The only reason it's "cheaper" is not because the system makes it so but because the government cut, cut, cut. They cap spending. Good luck getting state of the art cancer, hip or serious heart care here. Not saying it's impossible but it's damn hard.

Almost luck of the draw. If you do, be prepared to wait. A long time. These are plain, plump facts. We Canadians, as a whole, seem pleased with it since everyone is covered and it's "free."

At least Americans have access to nothing but the best. Not sure that's the case in Canada.

We do overplay the "life expectancy" card. America has 300 million people. Canada is roughly the size of California. Way easier to manage a smaller base of people. Sweden is eight million - even easier. Even then, it's struggling. Norway is a freak show. They're four million people and seem to hav

The only thing that bugs me is we don't have enough of a debate about Canada's health care problems. People don't want to hear it. When conservative think-tanks like Fraser do it (and they do a good job), they're dismissed as "right-wing."

It's ridiculous if you ask me.

Ask anyone on the inside and their story fits closer to what Fraser Institute says than what's painted by those who defend it at at all costs. People aren't stupid either. They know just by observing there are serious problems.

Personally, I've had both great and terrible experiences in the Canadian health care system. I've been in clean and dirty hospitalts. The terrible, to me, are COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for a public institution.

Beceause we rely on government funding (which somehow gets wasted because it's more than enough cash) and we don't create our own wealth there's only so much available for general upkeep and staff.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I tend to see it like Get Real on this one. Canadian health is not as bad as people paint it to be, but it's not what's cracked up to be either. The only reason it's "cheaper" is not because the system makes it so but because the government cut, cut, cut. They cap spending. Good luck getting state of the art cancer, hip or serious heart care here. Not saying it's impossible but it's damn hard.

Almost luck of the draw. If you do, be prepared to wait. A long time. These are plain, plump facts. We Canadians, as a whole, seem pleased with it since everyone is covered and it's "free."

At least Americans have access to nothing but the best. Not sure that's the case in Canada.

We do overplay the "life expectancy" card. America has 300 million people. Canada is roughly the size of California. Way easier to manage a smaller base of people. Sweden is eight million - even easier. Even then, it's struggling. Norway is a freak show. They're four million people and seem to hav

The only thing that bugs me is we don't have enough of a debate about Canada's health care problems. People don't want to hear it. When conservative think-tanks like Fraser do it (and they do a good job), they're dismissed as "right-wing."

It's ridiculous if you ask me.

Ask anyone on the inside and their story fits closer to what Fraser Institute says than what's painted by those who defend it at at all costs. People aren't stupid either. They know just by observing there are serious problems.

Personally, I've had both great and terrible experiences in the Canadian health care system. I've been in clean and dirty hospitalts. The terrible, to me, are COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for a public institution.

Beceause we rely on government funding (which somehow gets wasted because it's more than enough cash) and we don't create our own wealth there's only so much available for general upkeep and staff.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I was saying about Norway...before I accidentally hit the submit button, Norwegians seem to have figured out a way that best suits their overall mentality. People willingly give up their personal choices for state-run initiatives and it works for them.

I'll stop here since I'm already walking on a delicate line.

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