Will Chicago Obey McDonald v. Chicago?

It depends on how you define obey. As The Chicago Sun-Times reports, the city council just unanimously passed some very strict new handgun restrictions:

The 45-0 vote, coming four days after the U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling against the city's handgun ban, puts in place strict limits on guns.

The new ordinance, which city officials called the strictest in the nation, allows adults in Chicago to buy one gun a month — 12 a year. But they must pay registration and permit fees and take five hours of training.

The measure prohibits gun shops in Chicago and bars gun owners from so much as stepping outside their homes with a handgun, even if it's only onto their porches or garages.

For more on the future of gun rights after this week's big decision, see Brian Doherty's "The Aftermath of McDonald v. Chicago."

Comments

[John]

That is not a very informative story. Did they finally drop the liability insurance requirement? What about the limit that you could only have one functioning weapon in the home at any given time?

The real question now is what kind of scrutiny will these laws get? Strict or rational relationship? If it is strict, all of these requirements fail. If it is rational relationship, most of them probably pass.

[ChicagoTom]

Did they finally drop the liability insurance requirement?

Yes. They stated that since there is no stand alone insurance you could by, gun owners would have to add it to a homeowners policy and that would make it cost prohibitive.

What about the limit that you could only have one functioning weapon in the home at any given time?

That stayed. Basically only one assembled gun in the home at a time. Other guns must be disassembled and non-functional.

[John]

I think that one is going down in court. I don't see any rational reason for it.

[bubba]

I think the limit is one functional gun per registered adult.

Everything else gets a trigger lock or put in a gun safe.

[John]

What an unenforceable piece of shit law designed to make criminals out of people.

[Pablo]

Yeah you would think they had nothing better to do but think of ways to torment law abiding citizens.

[Jeffersonian]

It's easier to control the law-abiding than real criminals.

[ChicagoTom]

I also believe there is a $100 permit fee (to be paid every 3 years) and an annual 10-15 dollar registration fee for each gun.

Not sure why there are two different fees.

[Rich]

Not sure why there are two different fees.

I'll go out on a limb and say 1) to discourage people and 2) to raise revenue.

[mad libertarian guy]

You watch. Guns will be the new cigarettes in a few years with gun owners paying substantial taxes which only go towards propping up other unsustainable policies.

[cynical]

I dunno that it's a good idea to go out of your way to antagonize people that you know are armed and are, per your own training requirement, fairly competent with their weapon. I mean smokers, what are they gonna do? Cough on you?

[Rich]

But they must pay registration and permit fees and take five hours of training.

Please tell me that's not five hours of training *for each gun*.

[Zeb]

Annual registration? They are just doing it to make things difficult for gun owners and to make criminals out of more otherwise law abiding people.

[Doc Merlin]

There actually is liability insurance for gun owners.

[hmm]

The measure prohibits gun shops in Chicago and bars gun owners from so much as stepping outside their homes with a handgun, even if it's only onto their porches or garages.

Someone get Stevens on this. He's all about property rights. At least when the property is a gun.

[?]

The 45-0 vote

So much for respect for the rule of law. But is anything sacred in a town that calls lasagna "pizza"?

[The Gobbler]

But is anything sacred in a town that calls lasagna "pizza"?

How dare you denigrate lasagna with that comparison.

[Episiarch]

Deep shit dish pizza is more appropriately compared to an open calzone. You want some sauce and cheese with your greasy bread, buddy?

[ClubMedSux]

For the record, Chicago-style thin crust is better than Chicago-style deep dish.

[ChicagoTom]

For the record, Chicago-style thin crust is better than Chicago-style deep dish.

For the record,

you are nuts!

I'll take Lou Malnati's deep dish over any thin crust in the city.

[joshua corning]

Chicago-style thin crust is better than Chicago-style deep dish.

In the rest of the county they have a name for Chicago-style thin crust pizza...

It is called New York style pizza.

[John]

+1. New Yorkers and Chicagoans with their pizza. Ugh!!

[Warty]

You know what? I've tremendously enjoyed every single pizza I've ever had in my entire life. TEAM THIN and TEAM DEEP need to get over their tribalism.

[John]

Me to. Bad pizza is like a fat woman. Yeah there is better, but it still isn't that bad.

[proud libitard]

actually the joke goes: Pizza is like sex. When it's good, it's really good! And when it's bad, it's still ok! 🙂

[Coeus]

Pizza is like that. Sex is not. Your bad pizza will never loose control of it's bowels on you during drunken doggy-style.

[ChicagoTom]

It is called New York style pizza

I dunno that I agree.

Thin crust in NY is quite different than most thin crust in Chicago. Thin crust in Chicago tends to be thinner than NY Style pizza.

And don't those NY weirdos fold their pizza in half and eat it that way? What the hell is that?

[ClubMedSux]

I didn't realize there was anything different about Chicago-style thin crust until I moved out to Colorado for grad school. It's hard to describe (aside from it being cut in squares) but it's definitely different.

Oh, and ChicagoTom, regarding thin crust vs. deep dish I would offer the following two options (both of which will require you to drive down to the South Side): Phil's on 35th just west of Morgan and Vito & Nick's at 84th and Pulaski (which a buddy informed me was recently on that Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives show).

[highnumber]

Closer to Tom's residence: Anthony's in Berwyn makes a fine thin crust. I recommend the Italian beef pizza with hot giardiniera.

But Tom's spent enough of his life in Chicago to know what he likes. If he prefers deep dish, he's entitled to his opinion. No matter how wrong it is.

[Brian E]

Berwyn?!!!!!

[Brian E]

Here's a better one.

[Brian E]

No way. New York style pizza is cut into slices. Chicago thin crust pizza is cut into squares.

I love me some deep dish (Gino's East rocks Lou's) but I can't eat it every week. Good Chicago thin crust pizza is like nothing else in the country. The best stuff is made with cornmeal in the crust. You can't find that anywhere else.

[robc]

Completely off topic, but 2 "new" cornies showed up magically on my doorstep today. Magically, if you ignore the fact that I ordered them a few days ago.

Needing some more space.

[ClubMedSux]

I'm fine housing my cornies when they're empty; it's keeping them all cold that's a bitch... We have to brew three ten-gallon batches (two of which will be lagers) by early September and since I have to use my chest freezer (with a capacity of four cornies) for primary fermentation for lagers, and my garage fridge only fits three cornies, it'll take very careful planning to get everything done without having one lager end up a phenolic bomb (or, worse yet, a butter bomb).

[Zeb]

No, my personal taste in food is the correct one and everyone should agree with me, damn it!

[Episiarch]

As I've said before, this is all bullshit and is just a delaying tactic. Lawsuits will be brought again, and eventually this shit will get struck down as well, but in the meantime, they are in place and taxpayer money gets burned up by the city as they fight the lawsuits.

DC did it too. They will eventually lose, but it will take a bunch of time and money, and they know that. Fucking scumbags.

[John]

Remember that the next time one of them talks about the sanctity of the courts and how it is sedition to so much as question a court ruling they like.

[XD Shooter]

I sure hope so. What part of "shall not be infringed" isn't violated here.

[juris imprudent]

Why do you hate lawyers? They need to eat too.

[Coeus]

Why do you hate lawyers? They need to eat too each other.

Most present company excluded. However, if you want to eat a few of your brethren, have at it.

[juris imprudent]

Ha, shows what you know, a lawyer is utterly indigestible and has absolutely no nourishment value - not even roughage.

Plus you will shit slime for weeks.

[This Dave]

At what point can the lawmakers be held responsible for writing laws which have been ruled unconstitutional and therefore illegal? I'm not talking about after the fact, I'm talking about knowing the law, or one you had just like it, is considered unconstitutional but passing it anyway.
If they continue to pass laws which intentionally violate the ruling, how is that different from a police force which arrests anyone for anything they feel like and then leaves it to the courts to sort out? Isn't there a stage of personal liability at some point, where they're told "If you do this again, it is your ass that will be in jail"? If not, then the Supreme Court (and the rule of law itself) has no authority. You can just eternally violate their rulings, and eternally write another law violating the ruling just passed to correct your previous violation.

[Colin]

What I read was that -- while you can buy one gun a month -- you can only have one gun operational at any given time. And it has to be locked up.

[P Brooks]

bars gun owners from so much as stepping outside their homes with a handgun, even if it's only onto their porches or garages.

Let me guess; you have to hire an off-duty Chicago policeman at some exorbitant hourly rate to transport your pistol from point A to point B for you, or you will be in violation of the law.

[AreopagiticaAnyone?]

Gee, sorry Justice Breyer ("Determining the constitutionality of a particular state gun law requires finding answers to complex empirically based questions"), but it looks like you'll just have to work these things out.

Which is what I thought the Court was supposed to do. Y'know, determine the constitutionality of laws?

[cynical]

If it's too difficult or annoying for him, he could just recuse himself and let the conservatives on the court work it out.

[P Brooks]

Gun show coming up next week; I think I'll buy another gun, just because I can.

[John]

Do it man. And make sure it is an "assault rifle" or a "Saturday night special" whatever that is.

[Enough About Palin]

A few days ago I asked about concealed carry and what gun would be best for that. I was provided a lot of good information and will be taking classes and trying out hand guns at Bill's Gun Shop and Range: http://www.billsgs.com/

My next question is, what would you suggest for a long-barrel gun for inside the home? Something lightweight and safe would be nice.

[John]

I am old school. I like revolvers. An automatic can jam. If a revolver doesn't work you just pull the trigger until you find a cylinder that works. I would recommend a Colt python .357 with a medium sized barrel if you could find one. A .357 is a very powerful round and with a five inch barrel it makes one hell of a racket if you ever fire it.

If you don't like old school, buy a Glock .40. They are ugly as hell. But they are reliable. The .40 round is considered to be the best round out there. And they don't have a safety to fumble with.

[sage]

I have a S&W 357 revolver. Would I depend on it with my life? Yes. Yes, I would.

[Episiarch]

A Colt Python?!? Who are you, Dirty Harry? They don't even make those anymore (if I recall correctly), so you'll be paying a shitload for your retardedly overpowered pistol.

For in the house, get a shotgun or a cheap .38 revolver. Really, unless you live on your own property away from others, you do not want an over-penetrating round like the .357.

sage, of course, loves to over-penetrate, which explains his S&W.

[John]

There is nothing retardly over powered about a .357. And while they don't make them anymore, they were the standard side arm for law enforcement for decades. You can pick up a used one at any good gun show for a reasonable price.

And a .38 is a pimp gun. Jesus you might as well buy a fur coated fedora and platform shoes to go with it. Jesus Epi, I expected more from you.

[Episiarch]

John, do you even know what the fuck you're talking about? A .38 is a "pimp gun"? Are you retarded? The .38 revolver was the common beat cop sidearm for years. A Colt Python is a beast of a gun, and while some cops did use it, the standard issue sidearm was still usually a .38. The .38 Special is an incredibly common caliber.

Your Alzheimer's is kicking in again, John. You're misremembering the caliber of pistols in all the blaxploitation films you watched as a kid.

[John]

If you are in love with the .38 round, you can run .38s through a .357. And when I think of a .38 special, I see Shaft pulling it our of an ankle holster. And yes before Cops decided they had be armed better than the 1st Infantry Division, they often carried .38s. But Highway Patrolman and many others carried .357s.

[strat]

That's one way to cure a flinch. Mix the two in the cylinder and don't know when the loud one will come. Just clean, clean, clean afterward, as the .38 will leave a deposit ring in a new place.

[proud libitard]

The modern S&W 686 is a fantastic .357. I got one myself and it rocks!

[John]

And it doesn't over penetrate if you use hollow points.

[Episiarch]

Really? Shoot some sheetrock with a hollowpoint and see what happens.

[John]

If you live in an apartment maybe. But no way would a hollow point round go through an outside wall on a house and then over to your neighbors and through their wall. At worse you have the possibility that it goes through a wall in your house and hits someone in the next room. But that is pretty damned unlikely.

[bubba]

"one hell of a racket if you ever fire it."

Um, that's a good reason not to use a .357 inside your house. You'll be deaf and blind after the first shot.

Consider a .38+P in that revolver. Will penetrate 10+ inches with nice expansion. Will not generate a giant ball of flame, and you can get back on target for your second shot more quickly.

[John]

"Um, that's a good reason not to use a .357 inside your house. You'll be deaf and blind after the first shot."

A snub nosed .38 will make more of a racket as a .357 with a five or a seven inch barrel. And you won't go deaf from either.

[John]

And Dirty Harry carried a S&W .44 not a .357

[Episiarch]

No shit, John, I've watched Dirty Harry. The point was that a magnum is totally unnecessary, but you seem to be one of those "dur hurr anything less than a .454 Casull is like shooting a BB gun dur hurr", which indicates that you probably have little experience with shooting handguns.

[John]

I have a lot of experience shooting handguns and a .357 is an easy weapon to shoot. A .44 is like shooting a cannon. But a .357 isn't bad at all. Maybe I just don't have delicate hands like you do.

[sage]

I have no doubt that a 38 cal does not tickle. But I will carry mine into national forest in the Olympics, and full house 357s are good for some serious knockdown power.

A 44 though, forget how powerful it is. That stuff is over a buck a bullet.

[John]

Expensive as hell and gives you a headache. I have never liked shooting them. Honestly, if you just like to shoot, I highly recommend a Browning Buckmark .22. They fire as straight as an arrow, kick like air rifle, and you can last I looked buy a bucket of .22 rounds for around 20 dollars.

[sage]

I love my Ruger 10/22T. I put an egg size group at around 75 yards with that one. And yes, ammo is dirt cheap.

[John]

Those are nice to. I love .22s of all shapes and sizes. I guess it is because it was the first weapon I ever fired as a child. But .22 rifles and pistols will always have a special place in my heart. I have a .22 rifle that belonged to my grandfather. It semi-automatic one with a tube magazine. Never find a better varmint rifle. It is over fifty years old and still shoots great.

[sage]

You make that sound like a bad thing, Epi.

And usually I shoot .38 special out of my handgun - that's a nice feature that it can shoot two calibers. But I do have some self defense stuff that is made to expand and frag on impact.

John's point is that revolvers are very reliable, which is why I got one.

If things get nasty I also have a MAK-90. Take that you Chicago doucecanoes!

[Warty]

Dirty Harry had an S&W Model 29 in .44 mag, you nincompoop. (Although I believe the prop guns were actually chambered in .41 mag, and they used 6-inch and 8-inch barrel versions depending on camera angle.) The police death squad in Magnum Force used .357 Colt Pythons.

[Jinglish]

"The best out there" according to who? Yeah, a lot of law enforcement agencies use it, and it's more powerful than a 9mm, but there are considerably more powerful cartridges out there, particularly the 10mm Auto (from which the .40 S&W was derived) and the .357 SIG (basically a heavy 9mm projectile on a necked-down .40 case). Both are on the pricey side for ammo, though.

A long-barrel gun might work better for home defense than a handgun; SWAT teams have switched to M4's from MP5's because they've found that a .223 has less risk of overpenetration than a 9mm bullet. Try a shotgun like a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, or look into a .223 rifle like a Saiga (or an AR-15 if you feel like spending more cash).

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I really like my Glocks (although I go with .45 ACP); I have fairly big hands and they fit my hand very well.

But I also own several wheelguns and you're right: you can't go wrong with a good one. The .357 is a versatile choice: full power .357 rounds, lighter .38 rounds, shotshells for varmints, etc.

[John]

I really want a .45 ACP. I should have bought one when I was single. Now I have to get the wife to go along with my gun habit.

[sage]

Meh, go with a 9mm if you're going auto. Not too many 45s have magazines with 15 round capacity.

[chaka]

springfield xd45 comes with 13 round mag and shoots like butter. also the .45 acp round travels at a slower speed than the .40 or 9mm reducing over penetration.

[Warty]

John, you strike me as a man who should have a 1911. I've heard good things about the Taurus ones, if you're looking to save some money.

[ISellShampoo]

If you've got the cash pick up a Kimber. It's a great 1911, your only going to get 8 rounds in the magazine but you gotta remember it's got nothing to do with caliber or capacity it's all about shot placement.

[sage]

The problem I had with my 45 (it was a Ruger with the plastic handle) was the recoil. Not that it was uncomfortable or anything, but it's very difficult to place your follow-up shot on target within a reasonable timeframe.

[Terr]

I have a Kimber and it's a fucking great gun to shoot. Very accurate and smooth.

[BC]

The .40 round is considered to be the best round out there.

Considered by who?

.40 S&W is for little girls and mincing pansies who can't handle .45 ACP.

[mad libertarian guy]

Buy a glock .357 sig. Ballistically (terminal ballistics) way scarier than the .40.

For a long gun either go Remington 870 in 12gauge (Tactical 870 is a good choice), or an adjustable stock ar15 with a red dot/holographic optic (Aimpoint is a good choice as is a Trijicon Accupoint).

A tactical light is a good idea if you need absolute visual ID before blasting shit (if you have small children for instance). Surefire makes great lights.

Don't buy cheap optics at gun shows. They are a waste of cash. One should surmise that, hopefully, one should never need to use a gun. But if you ever need to use one, you really fucking need to use it, and no portion of it can fail if you expect shit to end well.

Buy once, cry once.

A tactical 870 can be had for beans. Less than $500 without question. You can get in the neighborhood of $600 for an ar15 if you look in the right places. An aimpoint will start around $350 and go up from there, a 1-4x Accupoint about $700 (worth every penny). A surefire light for either an ar15 or a shotgun will start at around $100, though if you go shotgun, I suggest a fore end light which start at about $200.

I use a DoubleStar .45 ACP (1911) for immediate use in my room, an 870 with said fore end light and a SpecOps recoil reducing stock for "I need to blast holes in shit because I can't be bothered with utmost accuracy during this invasion of my home, and I need to put a motherfucker down when I hit him" use.

[Joe]

I use an 18" barrelled 12 gauge Remington 870 as my home defense long gun (backing up a Glock 17). I'm also considering keeping my Marlin 1894C (lever rifle in .357 mag) loaded and accessible for those times I might need a little more reach.

[John]

But when you shoot them in the back running away from you at a hundred yards down the street, it is a real bitch to drag them all the way back to your property before the police show up.

[Astrid]

Not to mention trying to cover up the blood trail.

[sage]

There's something about lever actions that I love. I'm keeping a relative's rifle (same model as yours but in 45-70 govt.), and that thing is a thrill to shoot. Of course, every time I rack it I hear "Ka-ching!" so it's been in my safe for quite a while.

[Pablo]

Lots of good choices, the .357 is indeed good, Glocks are good, HK's, Springfield XD's, SIGs, Berettas. I like Colt 1911s but they can be finicky and sometimes need modification to be completely reliable.

Most important is reliability--it just can't jam. Second is how well you can shoot the gun. That comes down to how well it fits your hand (with the gun centered in the web of your hand you should be able to get the first joint of your finger around the trigger--if not it is too big for you), the recoil, how good the sights and trigger are, how easily you can operate the controls.

Obviously these will all vary from one person to the next. You are smart to try out different guns before you buy. It would suck to buy a gun and then find out it didn't suit you.

[Pablo]

Just realized you were referring to long guns. I like AR-15's--easy to shoot well and virtually no recoil. I have a Rock River Arms Elite CAR and think they are the best AR for the money. Second best is prob. M-1 carbine--again very light and fast and easy to shoot well.

You can't go wrong with a good shotgun either but I like the rifle's lower recoil, better sights and triggers, and greater capacity.

[wingnutx]

Shorty AR with a red-dot sight like an Aimpoint or an EOTech is great for home defense.

Quick on target, quick on follow-up, low recoil, holds 30 rounds.

If you are worried about over penetration you can get low-grain ammo that expands like hell.

[Lowdog]

I like the springfield XD's a lot. Just love the way they fit in my hand.

[Suki]

Shotgun.

[Suki]

Spam filter ate this suggestion http://www.benelliusa.com/shot....._vinci.php

[John]

What Pablo said. Get a weapon and like and are comfortable with. A .22 can kill you just as dead as some big bore pistol. Don't get too wrapped up in stopping power. Look at it from the intruder's perspective. I don't know about you, but I don't want anyone shooting at me period. If I am in someone's house and they have a .22 and mean me harm with it, I am leaving as quickly as I can.

[prolefeed]

Or, move to a nice neighborhood where owning guns is a nice hobby, rather than essential to your personal safety.

[John]

I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in America. And they have had home invasions in my town. It doesn't matter where you live, there is always a chance. Hopefully a small one, but a chance none the less.

[Pablo]

Living in a nice neighborhood is no guarantee you are safe.

[Enough About Palin]

This just demonstrates my ignorance regarding firearms. By long barrel gun I meant rifle or shotgun. Would you recommend a 12-gage pump action shotgun? Something else? Please advise.

[The Bearded Hobbit]

The sound of a round being cycled by a pump mechanism is probably the most terrifying noise in the world if you are some place you shouldn't be.

Another option is a 12 ga. scatter gun, side by side shotgun with a short barrel. They are remarkably inexpensive, can be had new for $200.

... Hobbit

[Paul]

They are remarkably inexpensive, can be had new for $200.

Seriously, where? Link?

[The Bearded Hobbit]

I've seen them at gun shows for around $200 pretty consistently. Best I can find online (didn't look real hard) was about $295.

... Hobbit

[Warty]

Just get an ordinary Mossberg 500 or Winchester 870, and get an 18 inch cylinder choke barrel for it. Then get a 28 inch skeet barrel (whatever you call that choke...modified?) so that you can use it to blow up clay disks when you're not shooting burglars.

[mad libertarian guy]

Remington 870, not Winchester.

Probably the best, most reliable pump action ever made. Hard to go wrong.

[Warty]

Yes, I always screw up Remington/Winchester. I should just say 870.

[Pablo]

I think a lot of people are better off with a light, handy, high capacity semiautomatic carbine than with a shotgun. Shotguns are fine but they kick too much for most people to shoot well. Don't buy the urban legend that you just "point in the general direction and shoot and you can't miss." The pattern doesn't really spread much at indoor ranges. Something like an AR-15, a Ruger Mini 14, or an MI carbine will kick a lot less than a shotgun, is much easier to shoot well, holds more rounds, and is still a lot more powerful than a pistol.

[mad libertarian guy]

Yes.

[juris imprudent]

Holy shit - you ask a simple, reasonable question and every gun pedant but me chimes in with irrelevant commentary. Sue me, I was at work.

You want a pump shotgun, preferably Remington 870 with a 20" barrel. Do not go for the "pistol grip" in place of the full stock. As the hobbit noted, the sound of a pump shotgun racking in a round is like a rattlesnake rattling - you may have never actually heard it in real life, but the minute you do, your brain knows you are in deep shit. That is the effect you are looking for.

[Lurker Kurt]

I bought a Winchester 1300 defender with a pistol grip and and after marker folding stock.

The first time i fired it, I shot from the hip without unfolding the stock.

I sprained my wrist. It was one of the worst feelings in my life.

The moral of the story: pistol grip shot guns look cool, but firing them can injure you.

I know always unfold the stock and everything is fine.

[This Dave]

Mossberg 500. Light shotgun, easy to use, hard to miss your target. Use birdshot; it won't over-penetrate into the next room, but it will make hamburger out of intruders at home defense distances.

[Tim Starr]

The next Republican President needs to Federalize the Illinois National Guard & occupy Chicago to protect the right of the average Chicagoan to buy, sell, own, and carry guns for self-defense, without interference from corrupt local officials. Worked in Brown v. Board of Education. How else are we supposed to get Supreme Court decisions enforced when demagogues refused to obey them?

[sage]

How else are we supposed to get Supreme Court decisions enforced when demagogues refused to obey them?

Fuck Chicago. That's how.

[John]

I don't get too upset about this. You have to protect your own rights at some point. If the people of Chicago are so stupid that they will elect these clowns and still chose to live there, fuck em.

[ClubMedSux]

That some of us choose to stay here and slowly chip away at the Machine is a testament to how great the city is. A place like Detroit? Yeah, I'd get the hell out of there in a heartbeat. But here, I'll stick around and fight even if it seems at time to be tilting at windmills.

[John]

Good luck. Fight the good fight. I respect you for that. But, you are choosing to live with morons.

[ClubMedSux]

I realize that, though it's not like when I lived in Colorado or D.C. (or when I visit family in Wisconsin and Michigan) I'm surrounded by rocket scientists. It is frustrating, however, convincing people that blatant corruption and cronyism doesn't have to be an inevitable part of living in Chicago.

[Johnnybegood]

At least those windmills will keep you cool!

[juris imprudent]

Chicago is already fucked. We should just acknowledge that and move on.

[This Dave]

If Chicago law enforcement uses force to execute a law ruled unconstitutional, do citizens have a right to respond in kind? I wouldn't like to see that actually happen, but I would like to see the Federal government have to tell the city of Chicago that citizens are allowed to use force to defend their Constitutional rights if force is being used to take them away. That would put the kabosh on this game very quickly.

[Pablo]

That brings up a good point in the debate over judicial review, and how deferential or aggressive courts should be in striking down laws enacted by the majority. There really is no enforcement mechanism for SCOTUS decisions that I am aware of--it's kinda on the honor system. I read something somewhere to the effect that Andrew Jackson said of a Supreme Court justice "He has made his decision, now let him enforce it" before ignoring the court's ruling. IIRC he was murdering Indians or stealing their property or something like that.

[Paul]

When a government wants to ram it to you, they will. And the Chicago machine is unanimous in their desire to ram it to you.

[PIRS]

Civil disobediance is needed. Gun owners and gun venders need to refuse to obey these laws.

[P Brooks]

what would you suggest for a long-barrel gun for inside the home? Something lightweight and safe would be nice.

Safe on *your* end, anyway...

For home defense, the twelve gauge is the way to go. Sheetrock is cheap.

[hmm]

Illinois has some of the best gun shows across the river here. Which is kinda of sad.

[prolefeed]

Sigh.

Back to SCOTUS for round three.

[Elena Kagan]

I can't wait.

[R C Dean]

The measure prohibits gun shops in Chicago and bars gun owners from so much as stepping outside their homes with a handgun,

The prohibition of gun shops should fall afoul of the almight (dormant) Commerce Clause, yes?

And I can't think of a better test case for the Constitutional right to bear arms than a law banning you from, err, bearing arms.

[ISellShampoo]

What ticks me off is they want to regulate where on your private property you can have a firearm. Next they will be saying that the only place in the home you can keep it is in the bedroom.

[Rich]

Or the shower. 8-(

[This Dave]

And then liberals can show that they don't really want the government to stay out of the bedroom after all

[Bob Smith]

Even if a direct ban gets shot down, they'll take "gun shop" out of every zoning designation that currently permits it. As far as I know, no zoning rule that amounts to an outright ban on certain types of business has ever been successfully challenged.

[WTF]

So they ban gun shops and limit purchases to one month. Would that not mean that they are prohibiting residents from buying more that one gun a month outside of city limits. That does not pass the smell test of logic test. So it must come from Chicago politicians.

[Hockey Guy]

I love the comments on gun types in previous posts. You people really need to get into reloading to reduce your costs and also to experiment with different loads and bullets for each caliber. I keep a variety of ammo of various characteristics in speed loaders and mag's for any any conditions I may encounter.

Any concern about semi autos jamming can be fixed most of the time by changing the bullet type. I found my 1911 jammed frequently with wad cutters or semi wadcutters but fired everytime with ball. Ramping can also fix this problem along with making sure magazines are clean and operating properly.

[hmm]

That's because 1911's were designed for ball. It is a pretty old design. With proper smithing they will fire anything reliably. They are notorious for requiring smithing to increase reliability (hence ed brown, les bear, and so on) and every major city I know of has 1911 smiths in it. (usually old and cranky guys or foreign guys with a thick accent for somereason)

[Hockey Guy]

Crimping will also improve feeds.

Old and cranky, that's me but I love the old fashioned thumb safety for quick draw.

My wife loves the hammerless S&W 5 shot 38 but I wouldn't want to meet her in a dark place with any gun!

[juris imprudent]

The 45-0 vote

Whoa, I think we just figured out a big part of the problem right there. FORTY FUCKING FIVE councilmembers? Not to mention that you couldn't possibly get them all to agree without pointing a gun at their heads. I mean don't you normally only have to bribe 23 of them?

[Keeping them guessing]

Remember, this is Chicago. There may not be 45 councilmembers; they just voted early and often that day.

[hmm]

OMG guns on campuses

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....lings.html

[Bob Smith]

If it's illegal to possess a weapon outside your house, even on parts of your property that aren't indoors, wouldn't it be illegal to transport it from the shop to your house?

Even if there is a transport exception, because it's impossible to enter your house without traversing a garage or porch first, where possession is prohibited, wouldn't it still be illegal to possess the gun between the time you leave the car to the time you open a door to the interior?

[David]

During transportation the gun has to be disassembled and in a locked case...and not easily accessible (ie, in the trunk). I think that clearly the ban on having a functional handgun outside your home (or even in your garage, back yard, or on your porch) is unconstitutional. Does the 2nd Amendment apply only to certain areas of private property? I don't think so...

[JB]

Anyone who ever gets mugged in Chicago now has 46 targets.

Daley and his ilk will do whatever it takes to protect the criminal-class because they are part of it.

[RustyShackleford]

Well, Chicago is testing the limits of what was, in truth, a vague ruling.

We saw the same after Roe v. Wade, with states seeing how close they could get to banning abortion, without outright banning it.

[Bergman]

The US Supreme Court has ruled that the government has no duty whatsoever to defend citizens from criminals. That duty falls solely on the individual citizens themselves. If a government removes the ability to carry and use the tools that are absolutely required to carry out that individual duty of being a citizen, then the government is asserting responsibility for that citizen.

You can't have it both ways -- either a citizen has the duty and the tools of self-defense, or those who stripped them away holds responsibility for that defense.

[wholesale nike shoes]

U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling against the city's handgun ban, puts in place strict limits on guns.