The Lie of Fiscal Responsibility
How Democrats used deceptive accounting to make history with health care reform.
As Democrats made cable-news victory laps in the wake of securing the necessary votes to pass a massive legislative overhaul of the American health care system, there was much talk of history—making it, watching it, being part of it, answering its call. But Washington's true attitude towards history is that of an abusive conqueror; it's not something to learn from, it's something to triumph over. And in that respect, Democratic health reformers deserve nothing but congratulations. Thanks to their dogged efforts, history—along with the popular will of the American public—has been thoroughly trounced.
Since the New Deal, American entitlements have consistently grown faster than projected in size, scope, and cost. Like unwanted houseguests, they cost money you don't have, and they can't be kicked out. Reform and repeal efforts are about as successful as kindergarten experiments with do-it-yourself haircuts. Indeed, the health care bill's very structure is a testament to this fact. Much of it is funded with changes designed to eliminate waste in Medicare and Medicaid—changes that could, or at least ought, to have been used to reform those programs, both of which are unsustainable. Yet the only way these changes were politically viable was if they were made in order to fund an all-new benefit.
To hear the bill's supporters explain it, health reform constitutes a triumph of fiscal responsibility—lowering the deficit, extending the solvency of Medicare, and stifling the growth of health care costs. Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), a staunch pro-lifer whose last-minute decision to vote yes assured the bill's passage, was typical in his declaration that the legislation would provide "health security and financial security" to Americans. "This is a good bill for the American people," he told MSNBC. "We're not adding to the deficit. Indeed, the CBO says the bill will actually reduce the deficit over time."
This case was crucial to the bill's last-minute success. In the preceding week, it became increasingly clear that a number of votes were contingent upon the bill receiving certain scores from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). And when the scores—a $940 billion price tag for the first 10 years, $138 billion worth of deficit reduction in the first decade, and $1.2 trillion worth of reduction in the following 10 years—came through, many wavering Democrats hopped on board.
But health care votes bought with promises of fiscal responsibility might as well have been bought with suitcases full of Monopoly money. The truth is that the bill is the exact opposite of fiscally responsible.
A little more than 24 hours after releasing the reconciliation bill's preliminary score—the one that picked up the majority of the headlines and votes—the CBO released another report, this one produced at the request of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.). It said that if in addition to the health care bill, the Democrats also pass legislation known as the "doc fix"—which would cost an additional $208 billion—the total effect would be to add $59 billion to the deficit over the first 10 years.
Defenders of the reform bill now argue that the doc fix is a separate issue. But Democrats didn't always think so: Last summer's first draft of the House health care bill included the doc fix. And Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has reportedly used the provision to ensure support from the American Medical Association. Are we somehow supposed to believe that it's good enough to bargain with but not good enough to figure into the budget?
Maybe the problem is something more elementary: Democrats just don't know how to count. Hard to believe? The CBO's letter also says that, contrary to administration claims, the bill won't both reduce the deficit and extend the solvency of Medicare. One or the other, perhaps, but not both.
Nor is that the only double count. The score for the Senate bill includes $72 billion in revenues generated by the CLASS Act, a federally-backed disability insurance program. But that $72 billion is just premium revenue that will eventually have to be used to pay out benefits. The score counts that revenue anyway, despite the fact that, according to the CBO, it would likely add to the deficit in the long term.
Eventually, the deficit damage starts to add up. Toss out a few of the bill's more fanciful assumptions—the implementation of the tax on so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans (already successfully delayed by a full five years by benefits-rich unions), cuts to Medicare payments, and a planned slowing of the growth of insurance subsidies—and the CBO reports that, two decades out, the deficit would spike "in a broad range around one-quarter percent of GDP"—something like $600 billion. Fiscally responsible!
Why does all this matter? It's not just the cherry-picking of figures and the rhetorical deception, it's the country's overall fiscal future. Thanks to a spiraling deficit, the economy is chugging merrily towards a broken bridge over a rocky canyon—a fact that almost no one from either party is willing to do anything about. America, according to the CBO, is on an "unsustainable" fiscal path, and the nation's solid-gold credit rating may be at risk. So it doesn't matter how many times blinkered legislators repeat to themselves, "I think I can, I think I can": Nothing short of significant cutbacks to entitlement spending is going to magically transform the U.S. budget into the little engine that could.
Instead, politicians are paying for new entitlements by shifting money from unsustainable programs—money that ought to have gone toward getting America's fiscal house in order.
Democrats made history all right—but only by sacrificing the future.
Peter Suderman is an associate editor at Reason magazine.
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I'm increasing at a loss why the debt isn't a bigger issue in politics. Few complained about Iraq's role in it, and the fact that "deficit neutral" is remotely acceptable where "austerity" is necessary is just befuddling. Isn't there more to be scared of with regard to the debt?
When Republicans have declared that "deficits don't matter" it's over since Democrats have never even pretended to care about deficits.
We are all deficit spenders now.
We're not even Keynesians anymore. At least Keynes said there were supposed to be some "good years" when you ran surpluses to pay down the debt.
Mostly true except for 1993 when Democrats cut spending $275 billion without a single GOP vote in either chamber in the 1993 Budget Reconciliation Act that Republicans wrongly predicted would destroy the economy.
But Dick "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Cheney was a definite low point for fiscal responsibility.
Of course he had a war to gin up.
Oh you mean the bill that turned the 1986 Tax reforms on their heads as it socked people for more taxes but with less exemptions. SA-WEET!
The Democrats today are much, much worse.
Agreed. Everyone is.
The election of 2000 was the turning point into the shitcan.
Although the slide can be traced to the 1896 election...
I think you meant to say the 1860 election....
Thats the one.
-Parfume
Are you seriously saying that we've been pointed toward "the shitcan" (as so elequently stated by shrike) since 1860??? Really??? I think we've been doing alright for the last 125 years.
Are you seriously saying that we've been pointed toward "the shitcan" (as so elequently stated by shrike) since 1860??? Really??? I think we've been doing alright for the last 125 years.
Are you seriously saying that we've been pointed toward "the shitcan" (as so elequently stated by shrike) since 1860??? Really??? I think we've been doing alright for the last 125 years.
achei mto interessante o seu coment?rio sobre o assunto, parabens.
Are you seriously saying that we've been pointed toward "the shitcan" (as so elequently stated by shrike) since 1860??? Really??? I think we've been doing alright for the last 125 years.
You are saying democrats are worse.. But do you know that democrats and respublicans are wotking together.. Just sometimes they are showing us , naive people that they are oponents.. Watch "West Wing" and you will get it.
Perhaps it might work well in theory, but when Keynesianism met politics, it became just a justification to spend more. download the town | download buried
I think Keynes spending claims are exaggerated curtains and blinds
Same thing happens if Monetarism meets politics. Even a more balanced view of monetary policy can justify spending more.
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Isn't there more to be scared of with regard to the debt?
"We're not even Keynesians anymore. "
Perhaps it might work well in theory, but when Keynesianism met politics, it became just a justification to spend more.
That's sorta my point.
Never say something worked well "in theory" if it doesn't work in practice. Keynesian economics has had 100 years of opportunity to be tried and it always makes things worse precisely because it's justification for reckless spending, and contributes to the boom & bust cycles Keynes thought he was fixing.
It's a *BAD* theory.
i assume that a good professor or teacher is right in some ways and wrong in others. it would absolutely have been better to let financial wizards drown in their own very dirty tricks rather than hand them wealth from the people; it has been known for a very long time that politicians who think they can play with captains of financial piracy are on a par with happily confident college students gambling against calculating casino pros.
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This is quite an interesting view. A lot of informative things have been mentioned here that I love a lot. I especially loved the strong points you made about fiscal responsibility and the urge to make a difference in this world and build better relationships.
Perhaps it might work well in theory, but when Keynesianism met politics, it became just a justification to spend more pagerank sorgulama
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You said "When Republicans have declared that "deficits don't matter" it's over since Democrats have never even pretended to care about deficits."
Completely agree...they don't even seem to care or even make out as if they do.
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I'm increasing at a loss why the debt isn't a bigger issue in politics.
The effects of the debt have been deferred very effectively, because the government was able to find plenty of suckers to buy their junk bonds. It doesn't become much of a political issue until the shit hits the fan.
-jcr
I am disheartened to hear that government by the people for the people no longer exists. It is now government by the party agenda for the party agenda. What's worse is they offer only two choices: a shitty sandwich or a shit sandwich.
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I'm increasing at a loss why the Socialist in Chief wasn't a bigger issue in Reason. Back when we had politics, in the pre-neomarxist American era of say, last year.
Have to totally echo Spoonmans thoughts. i too cant understand why debt does not appear to be the issue it should be in politics.
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Oh you mean the bill that turned the 1986 Tax reforms on their heads as it socked people for more taxes but with less exemptions. SA-WEET!
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Hello Spoonman,
I wish I could see this another way.
I think you hit an important point but it might just be too late. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I don't see an honest fix until after a total melt down of our and the world's economy.
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Pelosi in all her septuagenarian ecstasy. There goes my breakfast.
BURN THE WITCH!
BURN THE WITCH!
BURN THE WITCH!
BURN THE WITCH!
BURN THE WITCH!
So...if she weighs as much as a duck...
Actually Pelosi may indeed be made of wood.
Well we did do the nose
It got better....
BURN ER ANYWAY!
She's made of very small rocks.
No, that's just her head.
I think we should build a bridge out of her. Her skin is tight enough for a trampoline.
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Really? Ya think so?
Well, on the good side, I guess I'll just use my HSA to get the LASIK before Congress trys to confiscate it. I was gonna pay out of other savings eventually and save the HSA for you know, an actual health problem, but fuckit. I'm getting the Ted Williams package. Maybe I can use the rest of it to buy the cryogenics Ted Williams package, too.
The more you spend, the more you save!
But wait -- There's more!
If you call within the next ten minutes we'll throw in your own personal neurosurgeon - Absolutely free! For $29.95.
Pfft. I wouldn't pay over 29.94. You screwed that deal. BUT WAIT! THERES MORE!
The Lie of Fiscal Responsibility
How Democrats used deceptive accounting to make history with health care reform.
That's a bunch of poppy cock...
They do the same shady tricks that Republicans do.
It doesn't even say otherwise, and besides, who gives a shit?
We independents are getting damned tired of partisans screwing things up and then defending it by saying 'The other side does it, too!' A pox on both your sorry houses. Some kind of sea change is coming.
This really is the height of stupidity isn't it? It's like the wife in a financially dysfunctional marriage justifies the purchase of a new wardrobe on credit cards by noting her husband got a loan for a new boat.
If he gets a new boat, she deserves new clothes, right?
"If he gets a new boat, she deserves new clothes, right?"
Why not, if someone else is paying for it?
I thought it was "a plague on both your houses".
I wouldn't consider myself an Independent (I'm a registered Republican) but I completely agree with this sentiment.
True, both parties are guilty of deception. But that doesn't make it right. When my 8 yr old smacks my 5 yr old and then says "Well, he did it to me" I don't just sit back say "OK, your right, keep on hitting your brother!"
I do. Hours of pint-sized entertainment.
It really is like watching a bunch of children, in an "Lord of the Flies" kind of way.
I'm going to suggest you buy platinum coins or maybe silver bars cause no matter who's in charge they spend like drunken sailors.
Gold Prices is hiking. Its going to be the only currency of the world soon enough. JV Attraction Formula
I agree, no doubt to that.
"Indeed, the CBO says the bill will actually reduce the deficit over time."
This will be healthcare's yellowcake claim.
Presenting projections that go out further than 3 years is fraud. Believing projections that go out further than 3 years is stupidity. The CBO projections ---> garbage in garbage out. The Democrats gave them nothing but garbage to work with.
This will be healthcare's yellowcake claim.
No, it will be "market failure" (i.e. the market failed to do exactly what the Dems want, no matter how unrealistic, and thus 'failed' to magically come up w/ enough money to pay for everything).
This is EXACTLY what they hope for. In their minds, the resultant economic meltdown and chaos will open the door to a total takeover because the "market failed".
Yes, I was suggesting that "market failure" is roughly analogous to "intelligence failure".
10:25 p.m. EDT, March 20, 2010: A moment in time which will live in infamy.
216 treasonous Americans potentially accomplished with the stroke of a pen what England, Mexico, Japan, Germany, and the former USSR could not with all their military might.
This reminds me of the conditions leading up to the civil war.
Fine. Let's dance.
England, Mexico, Japan, Germany, and Russia already have universal health care.
Which is something this bill does not deliver.
More or less, it does.
What it doesn't contain are the means to enact totalitarian imperial control over the planet, as Kant seems to think.
Shut the fuck up Tony. Just go away.
Tony|3.22.10 @ 11:13AM|#
"More or less, it does."
More or less, it also flies to the moon.
So, tell us Tony: is this really going to work? Or are you already ginning up your "it's the fault of that damn laissez-faire capitalism" arguments?
And this bill will increase costs .
Great going, Chony. I guess the handwriting on Massachussett's wall did not matter to you people.
Excuse me Tony, dumb-fuck (but I repeat myself), but I was referring to the dismantling of the U.S. by hostile forces.
So then you admit Tony, that to achieve universal healthcare, all that's required is a decree that all people shall have it.
How's the life expectancy in Russia? Still declining? Yes, that's picking the easy case, but it still proves that UHC has no inherent positive correlation with health outcomes.
Except that, all else being equal, access to adequate healthcare leads to higher health metrics. Not to state the obvious or anything.
Um, except that Russians keep dying younger despite their UHC. So by your own example UHC does not necessarily guarantee "adequate" healthcare.
What metrics are those?
After violent deaths are normalized out, the US has the highest life expectancy in the world.
Of course, the US already has universal health care. It just doesn't have universal health insurance. Yet.
I think we can look forward to closing that gap with the all the other countries' lower life expectancies.
"After violent deaths are normalized out, the US has the highest life expectancy in the world."
Yes, but the US also has Tony. Russia wins.
Da.
The fact in your statement is undeniable. Your resultant conclusions, however....
Not to state the obvious, or anything.
Except that, all else being equal, access to adequate healthcare leads to higher health metrics. Not to state the obvious or anything.
It does not. It does no such thing. Tony, I give you 100% unfettered access to the MRI machine in my garage.
I don't have an MRI machine in my garage, but as soon as I get it, ye shall have access. So consider yourself on a waiting list. But at least you have "access" to care.
Waiting lists don't improve health metrics at all. Not at all.
Access to heathcare is an empty phrase. It means nothing except that somewhere there's a decree that you shall not be denied healthcare. It says nothing about when, how or if you'll actually ever receive the actual care.
"access to adequate healthcare leads to higher health metrics"
I thought higher health metrics were due to things like higher life expectancy, and how long you can live with a chronic illness. Access doesn't have squat to do with it. And face it, one of the reasons we have "higher health metrics" is because of our current system. If socialized medicine were implemented long ago, you would not have the advancements you have now. Better drugs and technology aren't really priorities when they become government budget items. It's more like "Let's only allow 2000 colon cancer screenings for the entire state of VA so we can come within budget."
As a Canadian, I agree. We come to "The States" when we need some quality, quickly....
BTW I think that stinks -- I feel sorry for the people who can't afford to "bail" ....
Look at the UN report on global health care delivery. Ironically enough, the only category that the US was #1 in was ACCESS. The great irony of "universal coverage" is that people end up with longer queues and less access to medical procedures than even the uninsured here (who just carry a large debt after having their FUCKING LIVES SAVED, which seems like a decent trade off to me)
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Yea, you're right... We really should try to be more like Russia and Japan. Idiot...
Apparently, judging by all of the replies this garnered, no one actually grokked the point Kant was making: that these countries had all tried to destroy the USA, but failed. And now our Congress has done it for them.
In fact, I made a similar point last night in a different thread.
Oh, and Tony, if you don't realize that this bill shaves years off of the life expectancy of the average American, you are quite stupid. Killing markets and innovation is the surest way to impoverishing, harming or killing millions. Every single American has just had his or her life expectancy reduced by this bill, and by all that will flow from it as we move ineluctably towards full, public financing and control of all health care.
I'm pretty sure demand for healthcare isn't going away, so that market will persist.
I don't see it written anywhere that a parasitic industry such as health insurance has any right to its profits, or even to exist. After all, the only "innovation" they engage in is ways to deny coverage. Sometimes the marketplace produces outcomes that are bad for people. Which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who pays attention to anything.
In the end your nonsense claim that regulating an industry will stifle innovation is all about preserving the corporate status quo. That's all this rhetoric ever amounts to. Sorry, industry has to contend with its environment, and that includes government regulation. Nobody's guaranteed a right to their current profits. Libertarians don't seem to realize this often enough.
In the end your nonsense claim that regulating an industry will stifle innovation is all about preserving the corporate status quo.
You got it right, Tony. That's why the bill's defeat last night is causing multi-percent rises in insurance stock prices this morning.
In the end your nonsense claim that regulating an industry will stifle innovation is all about preserving the corporate status quo.
This what Obama and the Democrats have just done, Tony. They have endeavored to preserved the status quo. They have mandated that all Americans shall buy their products, and all of the insurance monopolies have been protected by state mandates.
The Democrats are the party of corporate welfare.
Real healthcare reform (if you actually listened to real alternatives instead of arguing with the teabagger in your head) would have actually seriously shaken up the insurance industry. Real healthcare reform probably would have seen many of the larger insurance companies either going out of business, or having to radically change their business model to survive. At the least, many of those monolithic, democratically protetcted firms would have seen the influx of a large number of smaller competitors appear. Healthcare choice would rise dramatically, and there's a very good chance that real healthcare costs would drop.
Tony|3.22.10 @ 1:08PM|#
"I don't see it written anywhere that a parasitic industry such as health insurance has any right to its profits, or even to exist."
Your ignorance is very hard to believe.
How do you think major healthcare would be paid for if not insurance?
And the suggestion that a "right" to profit is negotiable says even less of your "intelligence".
So I have a right to profit from selling children into sex slavery? No, there are pesky freedom-killing government regulations that prevent sex slave entrepreneurs from pursuing their dreams.
You have the right to participate in the marketplace (while abiding by its rules), you don't have the right to a profit.
You are right, Tony: Doctors and hospitals and drug companies do not have a right to profit from their labors. And when these people can no longer profit from their labors, they will quit laboring, and no one will have "access to healthcare." Which means in reality, there is no such thing as a "right" to healthcare.
Eventually, liberals like Tony will make it illegal/immoral for ANYONE to make a profit.
So you equate an exchange of services between consenting adults (a person buying insurance from a company) to the most vile, despicable act one person can impose upon the most innocent of our society?
You are, by far, the most idiotic, most pathetic moron I have ever had the displeasure of encountering.
I was going to ask you to provide the passage in the Constitution that entitles the government to the productivity of all my labor, (that I don't have the right to keep my profit) but the vast, gaping chasm that is your stupidity has proven you to be incapable of comprehending it.
Tony, you fucking idiot, "demand" for health care may not be going anywhere, but the costs for producers to supply it are going to skyrocket!
As a result, there will be fewer and fewer drugs & technologies that will be worth the cost of production, and THAT is what lowers innovation.
You're failing to look at alternative futures - one where there is less government regulation increasing costs for producers in a sector with high demand, will result in greater supply. The more government imposes new costs (like $2 Billion in "fees", for instance), the more the industry must pay for government, and less for the product itself.
Corporations like drug companies have no problems with this kind of stuff cause they're still going to make a ton of money either way, and in this environment they still get huge sums of cash for producing and risking less... Thus the reason stock prices went way up...
YOU'RE the corporate tool, dumbass, and you don't even realize it.
"Nobody's guaranteed a right to their current profits."
Let me correct that statement to match your worldview there, Tony: Nobody's guaranteed a right to their current profits... except government, which is guaranteed a right not only to its own profits (such as they are), but to everyone else's potential profits.
BTW, considering that the current bill basically mandates that we all purchase healthcare from our health insurance overlords by virtue of being alive, I somehow doubt that the insurance industry is crying into its beer.
This precedent as any other will have dire unintended consequences such as draconian changes in tort law, social skews, and budgetary deficits in years to come. It's a further step along the road downhill which only proves the public wish to vote themselves more from the public coffers. There's nowhere to hide!
So, are those "wavering Democrats" who joined up after the CBO score came out
(1) terminally stupid, or
(2) criminally mendacious?
Because I don't see a third alternative.
And that goes double for the idiot pro-lifer Dems who took the executive order as cover. That executive order will be tossed out by the courts as an illegal impoundment, which I'm sure Obama knew when he signed it.
"Stupak" needs to pass into the lexicon as the term for "weak-minded dupe".
There is a third option "all of the above". I saw last night where something like 60 people a minute were joining Supak's opponent's face book site. The liberals will never accept him because he is pro life. The conservatives view him as the sell out who gave us Obamacare. He truly doesn't have a friend in the world.
Who is Stupak's opponent? Undoubtedly some Kennedy-esque newcomer?
R C, you are much too forgiving. No congressmen really cared whether the CBO numbers were accurate. They know damn well that the books have been cooked. The same with the abortion crooks. They know funds will be spent on abortions. It was nothing but cover-seeking.
I agree. Its politics and politicians at their worst. They were just looking for something to cover their asses.
Yes.
Also, Detroit radio station WJR just played a clip of Stupak from Oct09, I believe, stating that he'd support the HC bill even if it did not contain a ban on abortion funding. Words to the effect - "if we tried our best and it was still in there, then I'd vote for the bill - we tried".
So - who played whom??
STUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK!!!!!
At least the prick doesn't represent my district
If he just would have sold out to begin with, he would just be an anonymous Dem scumbag. Now he is the object of scorn from both sides. Don't think for a minute liberals are going to forgive and forget him damn near killing Obamacare.
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So, are those "wavering Democrats" who joined up after the CBO score came out
(1) terminally stupid, or
(2) criminally mendacious?
Why can't they be both?
Also, at what point do revolution and self-defense of one's freedom start to coincide? I have a feeling we're getting close.
Yes. If I were sitting on a jury where someone had taken up arms against our government, I would have no compunction against 'jury nullification.'
Cue the "Republicans did it too!" enablers.
The only consolation I have in this debacle is the fact that there is a 99% likelihood Pelosi peed her pants laughing that hard over fucking up America.
she probably already wears depends, so that wasn't much of an issue. Sorry.
Peeing yourself is peeing yourself, John. Even if she has a diaper to catch it. Just join me in an evil laugh, please.
I wonder if her diapers are environmentally friendly?
I doubt they are. But environmental stewardship is for the little people.
She buys Depends offsets.
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LOL, Deception is what US politics is all about LOL
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Anonymity bot can afford to go ahead and chortle and sneer because he doesn't pay taxes or need health insurance.
Yet. We'll tax the robots soon enough. Of course, then they'll rise up and slaughter all of us meatbags.
Any problems resulting from this bill will be blamed on its opponents' obstructionism. If everyone had supported it, they could have taken the time to fix the bill.
All problems will be your fault for not giving them EVERYTHING they wanted.
The only consolation I have in this debacle is the fact that there is a 99% likelihood Pelosi peed her pants laughing that hard over fucking up America.
Pelosi lacks bladder control on the best of days, so odds are good.
Botoxed her bladder.
If you're not aware of Paul Ryan's remarks last night -- a decent summary of the situation, IMO -- please check them out.
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Foster
Frank (MA)
Fudge
Garamendi
Giffords
Gonzalez
Gordon (TN)
Grayson
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Halvorson
Hare
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Heinrich
Higgins
Hill
Himes
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Hirono
Hodes
Holt
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson Lee (TX)
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Kagen
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kilroy
Kind
Kirkpatrick (AZ)
Klein (FL)
Kosmas
Kucinich
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee (CA)
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Luj?n
Maffei
Maloney
Markey (CO)
Markey (MA)
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McNerney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Mitchell
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy (NY)
Murphy, Patrick
Nadler (NY)
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Ortiz
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor (AZ)
Payne
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Perriello
Peters
Pingree (ME)
Polis (CO)
Pomeroy
Price (NC)
Quigley
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Richardson
Rodriguez
Rothman (NJ)
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Salazar
S?nchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sarbanes
Schakowsky
Schauer
Schiff
Schrader
Schwartz
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sestak
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Sires
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Speier
Spratt
Stark
Stupak
Sutton
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Titus
Tonko
Towns
Tsongas
Van Hollen
Vel?zquez
Visclosky
Walz
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Welch
Wilson (OH)
Woolsey
Wu
Yarmuth
No votes on the bill:
Aderholt
Adler (NJ)
Akin
Alexander
Altmire
Arcuri
Austria
Bachmann
Bachus
Barrett (SC)
Barrow
Bartlett
Barton (TX)
Berry
Biggert
Bilbray
Bilirakis
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehner
Bonner
Bono Mack
Boozman
Boren
Boucher
Boustany
Brady (TX)
Bright
Broun (GA)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Buchanan
Burgess
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Campbell
Cantor
Cao
Capito
Carter
Cassidy
Castle
Chaffetz
Chandler
Childers
Coble
Coffman (CO)
Cole
Conaway
Crenshaw
Culberson
Davis (AL)
Davis (KY)
Davis (TN)
Deal (GA)
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Dreier
Duncan
Edwards (TX)
Ehlers
Emerson
Fallin
Flake
Fleming
Forbes
Fortenberry
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gingrey (GA)
Gohmert
Goodlatte
Granger
Graves
Griffith
Guthrie
Hall (TX)
Harper
Hastings (WA)
Heller
Hensarling
Herger
Herseth Sandlin
Hoekstra
Holden
Hunter
Inglis
Issa
Jenkins
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones
Jordan (OH)
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kirk
Kissell
Kline (MN)
Kratovil
Lamborn
Lance
Latham
LaTourette
Latta
Lee (NY)
Lewis (CA)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas
Luetkemeyer
Lummis
Lungren, Daniel E.
Lynch
Mack
Manzullo
Marchant
Marshall
Matheson
McCarthy (CA)
McCaul
McClintock
McCotter
McHenry
McIntyre
McKeon
McMahon
McMorris Rodgers
Melancon
Mica
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Minnick
Moran (KS)
Murphy, Tim
Myrick
Neugebauer
Nunes
Nye
Olson
Paul
Paulsen
Pence
Peterson
Petri
Pitts
Platts
Poe (TX)
Posey
Price (GA)
Putnam
Radanovich
Rehberg
Reichert
Roe (TN)
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Rooney
Ros-Lehtinen
Roskam
Ross
Royce
Ryan (WI)
Scalise
Schmidt
Schock
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shimkus
Shuler
Shuster
Simpson
Skelton
Smith (NE)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Souder
Space
Stearns
Sullivan
Tanner
Taylor
Teague
Terry
Thompson (PA)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Turner
Upton
Walden
Wamp
Westmoreland
Whitfield
Wilson (SC)
Wittman
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL
Please don't ever do that again.
Look a list of all the heroes that stood up for the 30,000,000 Americans like me who have no Insurance and have been abused by the Health Care Comps. http://factcheck.org/2010/03/a.....-whoppers/
Rather, a list of traitors to freedom, who are taking away my right to choose the health care--both insurance and services--that I would like for myself.
We've been abused ever since FDR put wage controls into place: ever since then, we've considered it Somebody Else's Responsibility to procure health care for us!
God bless these American heroes! It's good to know that there are people out there willing to sacrifice there own livelihood to ensure progress for the American people and not corporate whores.
Because nothing says "I'm not supporting corporate whores" like passing a mandate that people buy corporate products! [/sarcasm]
/ facepalm
Mmmmmm.....Cassidy Cummings!
Except that, all else being equal, access to adequate healthcare leads to higher health metrics.
Assume a can opener.
If we all had equal access to really crappy healthcare, we would be in great shape. Look how well it has worked in Cuba?
Tony is The Man Opener.
I just started playing Oblivion. It's pretty bizarre to play Fallout in a fantastical world of whimsy.
I played it first so it was less weird. If they ever produced an Oblivion "2" they really need to work in VATS.
I've been playing Mass Effect 2. Delicious.
Good to know. I'm pretty much done with Fallout 3.
It's even more bizarre to live in an America where bottle caps actually will be worth more than dollars.
Capital Wasteland, here we come!
I'm working through the Fallout 3 expansion packs. I'm really enjoying wandering around DC and shooting everything that looks at me funny. Kind of wish fufillment at the moment.
What on earth makes anyone think this bill will increase access to adequate healthcare?
Is anyone being denied treatment for an actual illness or injury right now, today, because they can't pay? Not really, no.
Do countries with "universal coverage" have better access than we do? Actually, for the most part, they don't. Because of the shortages. And the waiting. And the state control over what is actually made available.
R.C. Dean, your a fool, 30,000,0000 people now have access to health care that didn't before. there is a big difference between emergency care and health care.. if you get cancer you can't get care in the emergency room!
If you get cancer, I wouldn't care in the emergency room nor in any other room.
Even if this weren't a lie, which it is, presumably in your world there would be no medicaid, medicare, or guaranteed ER treatment. So you wouldn't be able to disingenuously use those socialistic programs as an excuse for maintaining the status quo.
Should people's access to healthcare be wealth-dependent or not? If not, tell me why it's a good idea to socialize it for the poor and elderly, but nobody else.
How is a question a "lie"?
To your questions: No. It's not, so stop that, too.
Should people's access to healthcare be wealth-dependent or not? If not, tell me why it's a good idea to socialize it for the poor and elderly, but nobody else.
I'm not sure I understand this question. There's a lot of things we socialize for the poor an elderly that we don't socialize for everyone else. I don't pay for Bill Gates' electricity bill, or buy his dinner. Am I missing something here?
R C Dean is defending the status quo because he thinks anyone can go get treated if they really needed to. This, of course, is bullshit. If you have to choose between going bankrupt and getting necessary medical treatment, more people are simply going to die earlier because they will choose not going bankrupt or will postpone treatment.
But most of the treatment people can receive is provided via government programs. I just don't think it makes any sense to defend the status quo against evil government intervention by saying, well you can always get poor enough to get on medicaid, or whatever.
If they choose to drop dead rather than file bankruptcy, exactly how is that my problem? If going bankrupt saves their lives, isn't that a fairly good trade-off?
This is an awe inspiring post. I love it! It's got a lot of information that is really helpful to a lot of people. media
Tony|3.22.10 @ 12:57PM|#
"Should people's access to healthcare be wealth-dependent or not?"
Define "healthcare", ignoramus.
Yes, it should. The world doesn't owe you a living.
"Should people's access to healthcare be wealth-dependent or not?"
Absolutely it should. The alternative (leaving private charity aside) is to make slaves of the providers and any payers who are not the patients (or their willing relatives, friends, etc.)
This is what Progressivism always advocates in the end: enslave some allegedly to provide for others.
Still not seeing where anyone is being denied care now.
Millions of people who are uninsured get care now, even for chronic conditions. Its called "charity care" and thousands of hospitals, and their thousands of employed physicians, are in the business of delivering it.
Even the sob stories the Dems trotted out in their last PR push turned out to be bogus - people who were, actually, seeing a doctor, or were, actually, eligible for Medicaid.
Repeat after me: The only sick people in America who don't get care aren't looking very hard for it.
This bill was not about health care. It was about control, and dependency.
All else equal, access to ponies leads to higher happiness metrics.
But Daddy, I want a pony too!!!
There's a quasi-debate raging between one of my libertarian friends and one of my liberal (almost socialist) friends. Here's what it boils down to:
"The healthcare reform is bad for facts A, B, and C." "Shut up, your'e stupid."
Even the intelligent liberals know what's up, and they disregard it.
There is actually one sentient liberal in the world today. And it is Jane Hamsher of all people. She absolutely destroys this bill today. She does it from a Leftist perspective. But she does it really well and raises points any reasonable person has to agree with. It is worth reading.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....06026.html
It's a good fisking, but keep in mind that she's one of those pimping for single payer/universal care under the delusion that *that* will control costs without rationing.
Quick Quiz - Who Said It?
"What company wouldn't love the government forcing the public to buy that company's product?! Imagine a bill that ordered every citizen to buy the extended warranty on all their appliances? Imagine a law that made it illegal not to own an iPhone? Or how 'bout I get a law passed that makes it compulsory for every American to go see [a] movie? Woo-hoo! Who wouldn't love a sweet set-up like this windfall?"
Edited so it is not too easy.
It was a good read. Then the clowns came in on the comments thread. Wow. Notice no one deals with her factual assertions.
President Nixon's price controls on health care will turn out to be less of a disaster.
There was a time in the 70s when wage and price controls were considered the right thing by all right thinking people. Fortunately that like this passed.
Only after the actual experience of price controls (which includes price controls on health care).
This is a good bill for three of groups that are close to my heart. The cooperation shown here between public and private enterprise is a model for all future work done by Congress!
1. We need to help big insurance companies by requiring that all people have to buy their products, in return the government gets the support of this lobby in expanding coverage for all those poor souls who are now underserved.
2. The pharmaceuticla has to spend billions to make one new safe drug, in return the governemnt will provide several guaranteed revenue streams by expanding mandantory vaccines and in providing strict enforcement for Intellectual property, to make sure that the dog-eat-dog competive nature of companies doesn't destroy the valuable investments these companies make.
3.The AMA is made up of people who have dedicated their lives to helping people. In return for their support of this bill the government will make certain that unqualified jerks don't start providing healthcare with wreckless cut rate prices and holistic gimmicks. Nurses and the self educated will be kept in their rightful positions:"cleaning bedpans", sure you may think you know how to diagnose a ear infection after a five week class but it really takes over a dozen years of schooling and we don't want kids to get treatment unless they pay the piper.
The Debt-Prius is speeding out of control. ObamaPelosi: "Press the fucking gas pedal! Harder!!!"
The Debt-Prius is speeding out of control. ObamaPelosi: "Push the fucking gas pedal! Harder!!!"
haha nice
I'm looking for some liberals to help me with my retirement:
http://hodakvalue.com/blog/?p=2304
I'm actually calling for a strike of doctors and nurses if this becomes law. Or at least the threat of a strike. If just one out of three doctors and nurses says "it's quite simple, we won't practice under these terms" then Congress would have no choice but to repeal this. This bill is already going to squelch supply of medical services and boost demand, so a strike would just send the system into a tailspin from which it would never recover. And remember, doctors and nurses are wealthier and probably more conservative than the people at large, so it shouldn't be difficult to get one third of them to go along with this.
Do you really think the Democrats would try to call their bluff and see if they'd let people die in the streets? Who do you think would be blamed in the end by the people of the USA for any resultant illnesses or deaths? The politicians? Or the doctors?
In the end -- maybe not this time, but when this law evolves into something far worse and more draconian -- something like this will have to happen to stop people thinking that health care is a "right." If you have a "right" to something that someone else must provide, then, in the end you will need to enslave that someone.
One wonders if you guys would have any argument to make if you didn't so freely dip into the stash of ridiculous hyperbole.
Is it slavery that I have to help pay for armed forces to protect you?
Tony the Tiger, you're grrrrrrrrreatly uninformed about everything. The armed forces (at least in theory) protect not YOU, not ME, but the very distillation of liberty against its enemies. Liberty, by the way, that you, Tony the Tit, apparently love to see whittled away. Now get back to your cardboard cereal box and freeze.
We have a single-payer, socialist defense program. Glad we're agreed.
I just have a little more imagination than you, and consider health problems an impediment to individual liberty--one much, much more common and threatening to the general welfare than armed invasion in this day and age, which we still manage to spend trillions of dollars defending against, with no whining from you.
A+. Whoever the real person behind Tony is, you're an artist. You should apply for some NEA grants or something.
We have a single-payer, socialist defense program.
And they spend $600 for hammers, but with medical care they are going to decrease costs?
How can you believe both things? Either socialized defense costs way too much and so will socialized medicine or they don't. How do you count one form of socialization as being efficient while admitting the other is not?
Oh, you are a dishonest moron.
Not to worry, everything will be much better with single payer health care.
It happens to be the case that single-payer healthcare is more efficient than a patchwork market-based system. It's also the case that it's cheaper to pay soldiers than Blackwater mercenaries. Centralized, single single-payer services are more efficient. But that doesn't mean all government programs need to be as efficient as the marketplace. The whole point of the programs is to provide universal protection. The Post Office may not be as profitable as FedEx, but good luck getting FedEx to deliver to your remote shack in Bumfuck Montana. Healthcare should be the same: it's too important to be left to the calculations of profitmakers.
"good luck getting FedEx to deliver to your remote shack in Bumfuck Montana"
Wrong again. I live in a remote shack in Bumfark, Idaho and FedEx has delivered everything from a king-sized bed to a 56 inch TV to a pair of snow boots to a package the size of a vitamin bottle to an ordinary letter-sized envelope.
And they do it when the snow is two feet thick on the ground.
They get paid. They deliver. Always.
First, you do know that the biggest reason there's no competition with the Post Office is that it's illegal. For that matter, I don't know if the Post Office will mail anything to my remote shack in Montana, either.
Second, a single payer system is NOT more efficient than a patchwork of competing firms. A single payer system is a MONOPOLY, and a government-controlled one at that. Thus, it doesn't have the customer-provider feedback needed to reduce costs and increase quality.
If single payer systems really were more efficient, it wouldn't have taken TWO YEARS for someone I knew in England to get hernia surgery.
So the government should provide free cyborg technology to all quadriplegics?
It should provide adequate healthcare to those who need it. If you want something more than adequate care, you can pay for it.
And you know what the richest 1% can sacrifice some pocket change to pay for it. It's good for them, they'll have more customers for the useless trinkets they got rich selling (such as financial derivatives).
Tony|3.22.10 @ 3:21PM|#
"It should provide adequate healthcare to those who need it."
Define "adequate healthcare". Or shut up.
What's 'adequate', Tony?
This will come as a shock to you, but the evil rich guys are not your slaves, nor anyone else's. Their money is not yours to spend, nor their time, interests, or values to dictate.
This is the bottom line of your philosophy: you believe in slavery, if it's for a cause or a value you like.
You may snark that all that is hyperbole, but the day you admit that - as the communists were honest enough to do, unlike Progressives - the debate will get somewhere.
You're getting close to admitting it here. Now just be completely honest. Repeat after me, "Rich Guy A is my slave and I have the moral right (and should have the political power) to control his choices."
Once you reach that degree of honesty, you will feel better. It will also provide the rest of us, the minute you try to act on that belief, with the right to stop you by force.
"We have a single-payer, socialist defense program"
This proves to me that you're just some rinky-dink college kid with a Che/Mao poster, who is too "smart" to understand not just history, but the basis of society.
The constitution mandates that the government be allowed to levy taxes to provide for the common defense of nation. This goes back to a very basic idea that each person should be free to pursue their happiness without outside hindrance. It's kind of hard for a society to do that if it is under constant threat from some outside source. For example, let's say? Britain. Therefore, the framers mandated that the government be allowed to make use of an army to protect its citizenry. We could apply this logic to the police force in your community. We all pay taxes of some sort so that these people can maintain order, and provide an environment in which people can work, play, pray, shop, whatever without too much fear of being harmed. In this case, there is a common benefit for everyone who pays their taxes. However, I do not benefit from having my tax dollars used to provide anyone else with healthcare. All of the problems people say we have explicitly because of the system in place today- like denials, high healthcare costs, etc- are still problems in other socialized systems. In Canada and the UK, you can still be denied access to treatment either outright or through the waiting list system. Anyone who has read the bill knows that premiums are still going to increase. Using my tax dollars for this system will not provide any benefit. They would be better off putting all the money into a pot and setting it on fire, because it's the same thing. And you say that you "consider health problems an impediment to individual liberty"? That means you would need to seek and receive treatment to improve your health to pursue your liberty. So in Britain, if a woman is denied access to medication because the government deems it too expensive or if a child is denied her heart surgery because they do not have any more beds, or if people are allowed to slowly starve/dehydrate to death because their disease is going to kill them anyway- would you consider that healthcare system and "impediment to individual liberty"? And if so, why would you embrace it? And what makes that system any better than the one we have now?
And please do not confuse the "common benefit" for socialism. The key difference being that one allows for individual choice and the other doesn't. In a society nearly every interaction/decision provides some type of common benefit. And we typically make those decisions willfully and as informed citizens. We also decide how much of our labor/money is to be used for the common benefit. It doesn't matter if I'm buying a car, going to work or raising money for a cause- each decision provides a common benefit and I get to decide how much I want to be involved or expend. With socialism/communism all means of production, including the worker and his labor, are pooled together and distributed by some central authority. You have no choice. You must work. And just because you work, does not mean that you will get your "fair share". The central authority gets to decide how fair your share will be, not you.
I agree, but I just count nature as one of those outside hindrances. Governments can and should do what they can to protect us in the event of natural disasters, right? Why not the universal and socially costly phenomenon of health problems?
Free govenrment-provided Immortality Serums for everyone! Aging is an outside hindrance that serves as an impediment to my personal liberty!
WHY WON'T THE GOVERNMENT PROTECT ME FROM FATHER TIME?
That is right to
think its the responsibility of Federal Govt to ensure the proper implementation of Fiscal Policy. BPH treatment
Tony|3.22.10 @ 3:09PM|#
"I agree, but I just count nature as one of those outside hindrances."
And I count sunlight as a requirement.
"Governments can and should do what they can to protect us in the event of natural disasters, right?"
You are a broken, freakin' record. NO, that is NOT the proper purpose of government.
What in the world happened to you growing up that you should form such beliefs? And why in the world do you even want to live in this country? Only to enslave it? Go to Sweden, for crissakes.
Is it slavery that I have to help pay for armed forces to protect you?
Not to be an ass, but back in the day, many of my liberal friends used to answer "yes" to this question. Then they realized that every few election cycles, they had control of the military, so...
But by making this argument that forcing someone else to pay for anothers need isn't slavery, even you must realize Tony that as an argument, it only works so far.
If Oceana conscripts us all to work in a factory for the 'good of the people', that would be slavery, yes?
I think it seems clear that you believe that as long as the conscription, percentage of income, level of labour stays beneath a certain datapoint, it's not slavery. We just can't figure where Tony would draw that line.
As long as Tony, personally, stays on the right side of the line, with the overlords and their parasitical sycophants, then its not slavery.
"Is it slavery that I have to help pay for armed forces to protect you?"
Of course it is...you stupid people are slaves...now pay up bitches!
Tony,
Why don't you try conscripting doctors and nurses from the general populace (as was done by many militaries in the post-Napoleonic era), and then see how you like the results. Myself, I'll say "thanks but no thanks."
If you tell doctors how much you'll be paying them, and that they can't work outside the government system (this is inevitable if we continue down this road), then you are going to get doctors of the quality of postal workers (no offense to my fellow citizens at the USPS, but let's face it, your not brain surgeons), or your going to be enslaving doctors.
Watch how the enrollment in medical school falls off when you tell the doctors-to-be that they'll need to take medicaid patients 50% of the time, and get paid medicaid rates.
As we all should have learned from the USSR, you can't get a good outcome when you set wages and command people to take certain jobs "for the good of the collective." I don't want to put my life into the hands of such people.
To the rest of you guys, thanks for the support.
Is it slavery that I have to help pay for armed forces to protect you?
National defense has both of the properties of a public good, and if you pull your copy of the U.S. Constitution out of your ass you will see that providing for the common defense is part of the justification for the existence of the Federal Government. Healthcare is neither a public good nor a power the government was given. This is the same Constitution that every Senator and Representative took and oath to serve and protect.
Pretend the constitution does allow for some legislative discretion in promoting the general welfare (sort of how reality is).
Is there a reason healthcare is different from armed defense in some fundamental way, other than it not appearing on a piece of paper that was written when medicine consisted mostly of the use of leeches?
Yes. Health care is not a public good. It is both rivalrous and excludable.
Yes, as T correctly notes. Better question: how is health care different from food? Food is even more necessary than health care, so how can we possibly justify allowing evil corporations to profit from it?
Because providing for the common defense is an enumerated power. The general welfare and interstate commerce clauses are just power grabs by using your so-called "legislative discretion". Try reading some books for a change instead of watching MSNBC.
There are many significant differences, apart from those already pointed out.
One of the major one's is that "defense" is a short-hand term for "defense of individual rights (to liberty, freedom from coercion, etc)." That is a proper function of government.
By contrast, there is no right to health care.
Another salient point is that defense involves the use of retaliatory force, and needs to be brought under legal, regularized control in order to avoid it becoming a violator of rights.
By contrast, providing health care services, and paying for them is neither the initiation of coercion nor relataliatory force against a rights violator.
I'm confident you already know the answer to your question, though, and you are simply being disingenuous.
Addendum:
All that said, I'll make you a deal. Let's make all of it voluntary, health insurance, military, and every other government 'service'.
I'll bet you a thousand bucks that the military would get funded ten times over and the amount that went into government 'health care' would be a pittance.
If you have to make it involuntary to pay for it, there's invariably something wrong with it.
I hate to quote Glenn Beck, but he said it best about the "pre-existing condition" clause of the bill: It's like walking into AllState and saying, "That's my Lexus out there, and I'm going to go crash it into a building now. Here's this month's premium."
Hated to, but did.
What a completely foolish quote from a complete fool. That analogy fails. One chooses to have a car. One does not choose to have a body. By our nature we become ill, we age (if we're lucky) and we die.
The *choice*, however, is when to purchase insurance.
With the health care bill that passed, the incentive structure is now such that you shouldn't plan for the predictable, inevitable future where - by your own admission - "we become ill, we age (if we're lucky) and we die." by purchasing and consistently maintaining health insurance.
Instead, the incentives are weighted towards saving money that you would have spent on health insurance and doing whatever the hell you want with it, and then when you get sick, as people are prone to do - go buy insurance after the fact, pay for a month, and get treated anyway.
The WHOLE thing is designed in such a way that it rewards irresponsibility and encourages people to use a product they will barely pay for.
Trackback: http://republicanheretic.wordp.....-pricetag/
This is great. We will see the conservatives squeal like barnyard animals and Rush will move to Costa Rica.
Go Obama!
5 years from now, Bill Maher predicts that the teabaggers will be yelling "Keep your government hands off my Nazi healthcare!"
5 years from now, Bill Maher predicts that the teabaggers will be yelling "Keep your government hands off my Nazi healthcare!"
House Roll Call ? Archived For November
March 22nd, 2010
From a joyous Associated Press:
House Roll Call: Health care overhaul
By The Associated Press The Associated Press Sun Mar 21
The 219-212 roll call Sunday by which the House passed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
A "yes" vote is a vote to pass the bill.
Voting yes were 219 Democrats and 0 Republicans.
Voting no were 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans.
There are 4 vacancies in the 435-member House.
ALABAMA
Democrats ? Bright, N; Davis, N.
Republicans ? Aderholt, N; Bachus, N; Bonner, N; Griffith, N; Rogers, N.
ALASKA
Republicans ? Young, N.
ARIZONA
Democrats ? Giffords, Y; Grijalva, Y; Kirkpatrick, Y; Mitchell, Y; Pastor, Y.
Republicans ? Flake, N; Franks, N; Shadegg, N.
ARKANSAS
Democrats ? Berry, N; Ross, N; Snyder, Y.
Republicans ? Boozman, N.
CALIFORNIA
Democrats ? Baca, Y; Becerra, Y; Berman, Y; Capps, Y; Cardoza, Y; Chu, Y; Costa, Y; Davis, Y; Eshoo, Y; Farr, Y; Filner, Y; Garamendi, Y; Harman, Y; Honda, Y; Lee, Y; Lofgren, Zoe, Y; Matsui, Y; McNerney, Y; Miller, George, Y; Napolitano, Y; Pelosi, Y; Richardson, Y; Roybal-Allard, Y; Sanchez, Linda T., Y; Sanchez, Loretta, Y; Schiff, Y; Sherman, Y; Speier, Y; Stark, Y; Thompson, Y; Waters, Y; Watson, Y; Waxman, Y; Woolsey, Y.
Republicans ? Bilbray, N; Bono Mack, N; Calvert, N; Campbell, N; Dreier, N; Gallegly, N; Herger, N; Hunter, N; Issa, N; Lewis, N; Lungren, Daniel E., N; McCarthy, N; McClintock, N; McKeon, N; Miller, Gary, N; Nunes, N; Radanovich, N; Rohrabacher, N; Royce, N.
COLORADO
Democrats ? DeGette, Y; Markey, Y; Perlmutter, Y; Polis, Y; Salazar, Y.
Republicans ? Coffman, N; Lamborn, N.
CONNECTICUT
Democrats ? Courtney, Y; DeLauro, Y; Himes, Y; Larson, Y; Murphy, Y.
DELAWARE
Republicans ? Castle, N.
FLORIDA
Democrats ? Boyd, Y; Brown, Corrine, Y; Castor, Y; Grayson, Y; Hastings, Y; Klein, Y; Kosmas, Y; Meek, Y; Wasserman Schultz, Y.
Republicans ? Bilirakis, N; Brown-Waite, Ginny, N; Buchanan, N; Crenshaw, N; Diaz-Balart, L., N; Diaz-Balart, M., N; Mack, N; Mica, N; Miller, N; Posey, N; Putnam, N; Rooney, N; Ros-Lehtinen, N; Stearns, N; Young, N.
GEORGIA
Democrats ? Barrow, N; Bishop, Y; Johnson, Y; Lewis, Y; Marshall, N; Scott, Y.
Republicans ? Broun, N; Deal, N; Gingrey, N; Kingston, N; Linder, N; Price, N; Westmoreland, N.
HAWAII
Democrats ? Hirono, Y.
IDAHO
Democrats ? Minnick, N.
Republicans ? Simpson, N.
ILLINOIS
Democrats ? Bean, Y; Costello, Y; Davis, Y; Foster, Y; Gutierrez, Y; Halvorson, Y; Hare, Y; Jackson, Y; Lipinski, N; Quigley, Y; Rush, Y; Schakowsky, Y.
Republicans ? Biggert, N; Johnson, N; Kirk, N; Manzullo, N; Roskam, N; Schock, N; Shimkus, N.
INDIANA
Democrats ? Carson, Y; Donnelly, Y; Ellsworth, Y; Hill, Y; Visclosky, Y.
Republicans ? Burton, N; Buyer, N; Pence, N; Souder, N.
IOWA
Democrats ? Boswell, Y; Braley, Y; Loebsack, Y.
Republicans ? King, N; Latham, N.
KANSAS
Democrats ? Moore, Y.
Republicans ? Jenkins, N; Moran, N; Tiahrt, N.
KENTUCKY
Democrats ? Chandler, N; Yarmuth, Y.
Republicans ? Davis, N; Guthrie, N; Rogers, N; Whitfield, N.
LOUISIANA
Democrats ? Melancon, N.
Republicans ? Alexander, N; Boustany, N; Cao, N; Cassidy, N; Fleming, N; Scalise, N.
MAINE
Democrats ? Michaud, Y; Pingree, Y.
MARYLAND
Democrats ? Cummings, Y; Edwards, Y; Hoyer, Y; Kratovil, N; Ruppersberger, Y; Sarbanes, Y; Van Hollen, Y.
Republicans ? Bartlett, N.
MASSACHUSETTS
Democrats ? Capuano, Y; Delahunt, Y; Frank, Y; Lynch, N; Markey, Y; McGovern, Y; Neal, Y; Olver, Y; Tierney, Y; Tsongas, Y.
MICHIGAN
Democrats ? Conyers, Y; Dingell, Y; Kildee, Y; Kilpatrick, Y; Levin, Y; Peters, Y; Schauer, Y; Stupak, Y.
Republicans ? Camp, N; Ehlers, N; Hoekstra, N; McCotter, N; Miller, N; Rogers, N; Upton, N.
MINNESOTA
Democrats ? Ellison, Y; McCollum, Y; Oberstar, Y; Peterson, N; Walz, Y.
Republicans ? Bachmann, N; Kline, N; Paulsen, N.
MISSISSIPPI
Democrats ? Childers, N; Taylor, N; Thompson, Y.
Republicans ? Harper, N.
MISSOURI
Democrats ? Carnahan, Y; Clay, Y; Cleaver, Y; Skelton, N.
Republicans ? Akin, N; Blunt, N; Emerson, N; Graves, N; Luetkemeyer, N.
MONTANA
Republicans ? Rehberg, N.
NEBRASKA
Republicans ? Fortenberry, N; Smith, N; Terry, N.
NEVADA
Democrats ? Berkley, Y; Titus, Y.
Republicans ? Heller, N.
NEW HAMPSHIRE
Democrats ? Hodes, Y; Shea-Porter, Y.
NEW JERSEY
Democrats ? Adler, N; Andrews, Y; Holt, Y; Pallone, Y; Pascrell, Y; Payne, Y; Rothman, Y; Sires, Y.
Republicans ? Frelinghuysen, N; Garrett, N; Lance, N; LoBiondo, N; Smith, N.
NEW MEXICO
Democrats ? Heinrich, Y; Lujan, Y; Teague, N.
NEW YORK
Democrats ? Ackerman, Y; Arcuri, N; Bishop, Y; Clarke, Y; Crowley, Y; Engel, Y; Hall, Y; Higgins, Y; Hinchey, Y; Israel, Y; Lowey, Y; Maffei, Y; Maloney, Y; McCarthy, Y; McMahon, N; Meeks, Y; Murphy, Y; Nadler, Y; Owens, Y; Rangel, Y; Serrano, Y; Slaughter, Y; Tonko, Y; Towns, Y; Velazquez, Y; Weiner, Y.
Republicans ? King, N; Lee, N.
NORTH CAROLINA
Democrats ? Butterfield, Y; Etheridge, Y; Kissell, N; McIntyre, N; Miller, Y; Price, Y; Shuler, N; Watt, Y.
Republicans ? Coble, N; Foxx, N; Jones, N; McHenry, N; Myrick, N.
NORTH DAKOTA
Democrats ? Pomeroy, Y.
OHIO
Democrats ? Boccieri, Y; Driehaus, Y; Fudge, Y; Kaptur, Y; Kilroy, Y; Kucinich, Y; Ryan, Y; Space, N; Sutton, Y; Wilson, Y.
Republicans ? Austria, N; Boehner, N; Jordan, N; LaTourette, N; Latta, N; Schmidt, N; Tiberi, N; Turner, N.
OKLAHOMA
Democrats ? Boren, N.
Republicans ? Cole, N; Fallin, N; Lucas, N; Sullivan, N.
OREGON
Democrats ? Blumenauer, Y; DeFazio, Y; Schrader, Y; Wu, Y.
Republicans ? Walden, N.
PENNSYLVANIA
Democrats ? Altmire, N; Brady, Y; Carney, Y; Dahlkemper, Y; Doyle, Y; Fattah, Y; Holden, N; Kanjorski, Y; Murphy, Patrick, Y; Schwartz, Y; Sestak, Y.
Republicans ? Dent, N; Gerlach, N; Murphy, Tim, N; Pitts, N; Platts, N; Shuster, N; Thompson, N.
RHODE ISLAND
Democrats ? Kennedy, Y; Langevin, Y.
SOUTH CAROLINA
Democrats ? Clyburn, Y; Spratt, Y.
Republicans ? Barrett, N; Brown, N; Inglis, N; Wilson, N.
SOUTH DAKOTA
Democrats ? Herseth Sandlin, N.
TENNESSEE
Democrats ? Cohen, Y; Cooper, Y; Davis, N; Gordon, Y; Tanner, N.
Republicans ? Blackburn, N; Duncan, N; Roe, N; Wamp, N.
TEXAS
Democrats ? Cuellar, Y; Doggett, Y; Edwards, N; Gonzalez, Y; Green, Al, Y; Green, Gene, Y; Hinojosa, Y; Jackson Lee, Y; Johnson, E. B., Y; Ortiz, Y; Reyes, Y; Rodriguez, Y.
Republicans ? Barton, N; Brady, N; Burgess, N; Carter, N; Conaway, N; Culberson, N; Gohmert, N; Granger, N; Hall, N; Hensarling, N; Johnson, Sam, N; Marchant, N; McCaul, N; Neugebauer, N; Olson, N; Paul, N; Poe, N; Sessions, N; Smith, N; Thornberry, N.
UTAH
Democrats ? Matheson, N.
Republicans ? Bishop, N; Chaffetz, N.
VERMONT
Democrats ? Welch, Y.
VIRGINIA
Democrats ? Boucher, N; Connolly, Y; Moran, Y; Nye, N; Perriello, Y; Scott, Y.
Republicans ? Cantor, N; Forbes, N; Goodlatte, N; Wittman, N; Wolf, N.
WASHINGTON
Democrats ? Baird, Y; Dicks, Y; Inslee, Y; Larsen, Y; McDermott, Y; Smith, Y.
Republicans ? Hastings, N; McMorris Rodgers, N; Reichert, N.
WEST VIRGINIA
Democrats ? Mollohan, Y; Rahall, Y.
Republicans ? Capito, N.
WISCONSIN
Democrats ? Baldwin, Y; Kagen, Y; Kind, Y; Moore, Y; Obey, Y.
Republicans ? Petri, N; Ryan, N; Sensenbrenner, N.
WYOMING
Republicans ? Lummis, N.
Just a little something to store away until the mid-terms.
So how many of the 219 will lose in November? 10? 15?
The only silver lining to this black cloud for me is that it's the kiddies (under 30) that are going to bear the brunt of this unsustainable debt through lowered standards of living (massive tax hikes, no GDP growth, permanently high unemployment). They need to stop dreaming of custom homes on the lake and start thinking about lineoleum and double-wides.
Here is something that is deceptive also.
The President has also taken good care of his Muslim buddies it would seem!
Looks like the rest of the United States taxpayers are not only picking up the tab for 30 million more healthcare recipients but the Muslims, Amish and Christian Scientists are exempted. Obama took care of his Muslim buddies it would seem. Who ever thought?
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/health-insuran...
health care, a single issue that consumes the democrats and Pres. Obama. they sidelined other important issues like jobs, war, deficit spending, etc. it seems that the sum of these issues is health care for the most healthy people on earth but the most warlike. another irony is the growing joblessness when there is war that needs able-bodied and healthy men and women fit to wear uniforms thus reducing unemployment.
Reducing "unemployment" by killing people. Perfect solution... Worked in WWII.
/snark
Don't listen to these silly right wingers, "Tony". As a member of the immigrant / minority community, I swear on your life that, if we are forced to pay 8,10 thou a year for insurance, then we will ONLY visit the hospital once or twice a year. Thrice, at at most. I promise.
Also, the richest 1% make 900 zillion dollars a year, and they all vote Republican. You are right. Gas prices will never reach 3.80 a gallon, which is a reality in many other countries.
Like Drew Carey says, libertarians are conservatives who want to get high. They're also weird looking geeks. Yuck.
Brilliant analysis. This bill stinks BECAUSE it extends TODAY'S health insurance.
People who have never studied economics miss the argument from word one: Insurance IS the problem!
Imagine insurance -- paying a monthly rate in exchange for heavily discounted or "free" provision of
other products:
Gasoline.
Food.
Bubble gum.
I each case, as with health services, the same thing happens: Overconsumption. All the talk of "pools"
etc BREAKS DOWN COMPLETELY WHEN THE SERVICES ARE SOMETHING PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT.
Individual incentives to purchase only what is "worth it" are destroyed. Restless legs? Take a pill!
Power chair? Free from the Scooter Store! Are they "worth" -- is the benefit to the individual -- more
than the cost? WHO CARES WHEN SOMEONE ELSE IS PICKING UP THE TAB!
Health insurance would WORK when it only covers things PEOPLE DON'T WANT:
Splenectomy yes. Chiropractry no.
Chemotherapy yes. Aromatherapy no.
Nobody sane wants "free" radiation therapy. So it's an insurable risk -- there is no INDUCED DEMAND
simply by being "covered."
It is the INDUCED DEMAND that's bankrupting the system. Drug companies know this -- they WANT "Insurance
for all."
Most health spending is palliative. This should be paid out-of-pocket -- preferable with pre-tax dollars
from Health Savings Accounts. Catastrophic coverage would take care of those expensive, nasty thing
NOBODY WANTS.
Chronic conditions, especially congenital, should be subsidized out of compassion IMO.
By not addressing INSURANCE as ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM, this process, bill and law is a farce. That's
why it does nothing (per CBO) to reduce PREMIUMS or SPENDING. It only SHIFTS costs from employers the
government to taxpayers ... BUYING VOTES with TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
Real reform may come ... but this isn't it.
Basically Obama has just date-raped this country. He did to us what we didn't want done, and he's counting on us waking up in the morning and loving him for it. We'd better prove him wrong in the next two election cycles or a lesson will be learned that the American people can be taken advantage of without consequences. Every president who follows will know that "no" really means "yes" and will plow ahead with whatever unpopular plans they desire. Our elective presidency will be transformed from temporary tenancy into a four year dictatorship. America has much to fear from this scenario.
Either Obama is a lier or a fool. Hey, maybe both.
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The Congress just voted to add 16million people to Medicaid which is over half of the 30million who will now have "access" to health insurance. The majority of the rest who will get health insurance will have their premiums subsidized by taxpayers. So the government will pay for the majority of newly insured and the bill will mandate new taxes on the rest of us to provide that insurance. And it will do this without increasing the deficit. I for one think the government should reduce it's size, earmarks, and waste to pay for this gigantic expansion in government health insurance coverage.
Listen, this is a stupid argument. The fact that previous iterations of the healthcare bill were in the red does nothing to change the CBO's estimation of the current bill.
This is a fiscally conservative maneuver... They have removed something that was too expensive to pay for at the time, with the intent of reexamining the issue at a later date, hoping to make it run in the black. It isn't deceptive and it isn't smoke and mirrors.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, the guy moving the mirrors and blowing the smoke... When was the last time a government program went over the projected cost? It's preposterous to think one could ever do so!
We've never seen this level of outright lying and corruption in our nations history. The small band of arrogant left wing Elites who have forced this corrupt monstrosity on the nation have truly injured our nation. Nov will be the mosts important election of our lifetimes. If the Democrats reatain control the corruption will continue to grow, and the decline of our nation will accelerate.
Unfortunately, yes we have, and also unfortunately, the same thing will happen if the Republicans regain control.
i detest obama and co like no other political group in history. when their unconstitutional bill is laid bare by the high court, and when the dust of the midterm elections has settled, let their arrogance be repaid twofold. progressives have just declared war on mainstream america; we need to show them what happens when you flip your middle finger to the public....
I liked the Constitutional argument against it, by one of the state attorneys general planning to sue: How can Congress force someone to buy health insurance under any interpretation of the Commerce Clause, however broad? If someone isn't buying health insurance, they're not participating in commerce at all.
Great,I love it.
as someone who immigrated into this country and fell in love with its roots of small government, I am disheartened to hear that government by the people for the people no longer exists. It is now government by the party agenda for the party agenda. What's worse is they offer only two choices: a shitty sandwich or a shit sandwich
So are complaining about their cherry picking of statistics by cherry picking statistics?
Your idiocy is humorus.
Good read.
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My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won't get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there's more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I'm not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It's just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight...the Bible's books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on...the Bible's books were written by people with very different mindsets...in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it's literally a labyrinth, that's no joke.
My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won't get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there's more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I'm not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It's just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight...the Bible's books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on...the Bible's books were written by people with very different mindsets...in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it's literally a labyrinth, that's no joke.
The good professor is correct in some ways and very wrong in others. Yes, it would probably have been better to let financial wizards drown in their own dirty tricks rather than hand them wealth from the people; it has been known for a very long time that politicians who think they can play among captains of financial piracy are on a par with happily confident college students gambling against calculating casino pros.
Even if you go on his website, it's still just a a ten minute discussion. The interview with Jim Cramer simply amounted to Jim sputtering something every couple of minutes while John wagged his finger at him the whole time. I've never seen him have an intelligent discussion with anybody, and he only talks to people that he knows he can bully into a corner. Usually idiots, yes, but it's still dispicable. I don't watch him that often, but it is people like him that make me wretch. The fact that people go around saying "He slammed so and so" in that "debate" pisses me off. John's not directly responsible for that, but he certainly plays his audience to get that effect.
We've never seen this level of outright lying and corruption in our nations history. The small band of arrogant left wing Elites who have forced this corrupt monstrosity on the nation have truly injured our nation. Nov will be the mosts important election of our lifetimes. If the Democrats reatain control the corruption will continue to grow, and the decline of our nation will accelerate.
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Instead, politicians are paying for new entitlements auto transport
by shifting money from unsustainable programs?money that ought to have gone toward getting America's fiscal house in order.
Since the New Deal, American entitlements have consistently grown faster than projected in size, scope, and cost. Like unwanted houseguests, they cost money you don't have, and they can't be kicked out. Reform and repeal efforts are about as successful as kindergarten experiments with do-it-yourself haircuts. Indeed, the health care bill's very structure is a testament to this fact. Much of it is funded with changes designed to eliminate waste in Medicare and Medicaid?changes that could, or at least ought, to have been used to reform those programs, both of which are unsustainable. auto transport
Since the New Deal, American entitlements have consistently grown faster than projected in size, scope, and cost. Like unwanted houseguests, they cost money you don't have, and they can't be kicked out. Reform and repeal efforts are about as successful auto transport
as kindergarten experiments with do-it-yourself haircuts.
But health care votes bought with promises of fiscal responsibility might as well insurance Leads have been bought with suitcases full of Monopoly money. The truth is that the bill is the exact opposite of fiscally responsible.
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Yes, this whole health care reform is one big fraud. I do not know who they now believe. Sally from mahjong club.
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Well . yes, Money ought to go toward to the US family for the daliy fiscal orders !
The current administration is putting the country even deeper into debt than it is today. Borrowing your way out of the crisis is not a solution, it only extends the pain.
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I am aware that the health reform is an important subject here but what really makes me worried is that you rarely see the discussion of the growing credit card debt for the average American households. I mean, the average family owns about $9000 in credit card debt, and if we just focus on the health question and it's benefits our economy will just fall deeper and depper into the black whole of debt.
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I work in the Domain name business and it's a job one can do on its own. Lately I felt the need to get hired by a firm and get all the benefits of an employee, mainly health care. Now that I can compare the lack of it (working at home) and its existence (since I got employed) I can say I don't really feel the difference as I still have to pay my medical bills and buy my own pills. The firm that hired me isn't responsible as this is what our wonderful state has to offer. Now who's to blame? Shouldn't I just stay home and raise my kids and pay for each medical intervention? It's the same as getting health care from an employer.
I work in the Domain name business and it's a job one can do on its own. Lately I felt the need to get hired by a firm and get all the benefits of an employee, mainly health care. Now that I can compare the lack of it (working at home) and its existence (since I got employed) I can say I don't really feel the difference as I still have to pay my medical bills and buy my own pills. The firm that hired me isn't responsible as this is what our wonderful state has to offer. Now who's to blame? Shouldn't I just stay home and raise my kids and pay for each medical intervention? It's the same as getting health care from an employer.
I think this is not fair situation, I would recommend people be patient in this regard, as our administration is facing tough so let them do their work and make everything good. Thanks
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This is why I try to avoid political discussions. There is just never a right or wrong answers.
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I think this is not fair situation, I would recommend people be patient in this regard, as our administration is facing tough so let them do their work and make everything good. Thanks dehydration
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Democrats and Republicans do this same thing. In fact, even statisticians, the professional "science" type do the same thing. Not news.
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I do wish there were more people like you around on the interwebs. Not many people are careful with their words, including myself sometimes. I have written things I would love to take back, goo work, keep it up.
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There is nothing wrong with the health care system.
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It would absolutely have been better to let financial wizards drown in their own very dirty tricks rather than hand them wealth from the people; it has been known for a very long time.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this,I agree with you,but its not like politics and politicians at its worst as many of us are claiming..there are always some difficulties at every level of authority just like we have in our day to day life.these guys are not different..however I strongly believe that they could have been more accountable to public. Auto Insurance Discounters
"Eventually, the deficit damage starts to add up. Toss out a few of the bill's more fanciful assumptions" Economy and political reputation is falling to the ground we need support
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It's funny how instead of a viable solution for a problem, both parties waste time throwing stones at one another and nothing gets accomplished.It's always the same crap: Spend/Cut! What really is amusing is the problem is never actually dealt with. Initially I was just looking for an amazon kindle 3g wireless review but stumbled across this post and had to comment.
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I think this is not fair situation, I would recommend people be patient in this regard, as our administration is facing tough so let them do their work and make everything good. Thanks
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"It would absolutely have been better to let financial wizards drown in their own very dirty tricks rather than hand them wealth from the people; it has been known for a very long time."
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"Democrats made history all right?but only by sacrificing the future."
I don't think so, if money is kind of a problem, they can find it elsewhere.
Interesting and very informative post....I guess the democrats, like always,is trying to another great history by this policy.thanx for the post.
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"Democrats made history all right?but only by sacrificing the future."
I don't think so, if money is kind of a problem, they can find it elsewhere.
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Perhaps it might work well in theory, but when Keynesianism met politics, it became just a justification to spend more.
Interesting and very informative post....I guess the democrats, like always,is trying to another great history by this policy.thanx for the post.
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Same policy here in the phil. Wonder what republicans would say.
Perhaps it might work well in theory, maybe....
Actually, I am very interested in this sphere and reading this post I think we live in a lie-world. Hopeless for the future.
It's good to know this fact... I didn't know
This is crazy
just a justification to spend more.
I agree, by sacrificing the future, we can't accept the reason.
Very good example..
"Doc fix" is nothing more than a budgetary gimmick being used to lower the over all price of Pelosi's government run healthcare package (HR-3962).
Very informative post....I guess the democrats, like always,is trying to another great history by this policy.thanx for the post.
Spend, spend, and spend some more is their motto! We will soon see the error in those ways by sky-high inflation!
How long can we print money with no value before it gets back to us?
"Doctor fix" is nothing more than a budgetary gimmick being used to lower the over all price of Pelosi's government run healthcare package (HR-3962).
It would absolutely have been far better to let financial wizards drown in their own incredibly dirty methods instead of hand them wealth from the individuals; it's been known to get a especially lengthy time.
My daughter's case shows the need to change the culture of public service. This is not about money
i am not so sure, the TRX has something similar i guess
Yeah I do remember the same thing. TRX does have something similar. Could somebody point it out? I been looking everywhere and found nothing.
I did read about the change in the culture of finance, it shouldnt all be about the money, but it really does make you think whether it is
Doc fix is nothing more than a budgetary gimmick being used to lower the over all price of Pelosi's government run healthcare package.
Great article about our current goverment peter. I enjoyed and will look out for other articles you post on this site. Thanks.
The Democrats have never known how to count, hehe.
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This is why I try to avoid political discussions. There is just never a right or wrong answers.
It really doesn't matter how the CBO scores it because we all know the truth. The truth is that government entitlements never come close to their predicted numbers. History has repeated this over and over but yet they think we'll believe it.
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Gimmick No. 1 is the way the bill front-loads revenues and backloads spending. That is, the taxes and fees it calls for are set to begin immediately, but its new subsidies would be deferred so that the first 10 years of revenue would be used to pay for only 6 years of spending.
Never say something worked well "in theory" if it doesn't work in practice. Keynesian economics has had 100 years of opportunity to be tried and it always makes things worse precisely because it's justification for reckless spending, and contributes to the boom & bust cycles Keynes thought he was fixing.
It's a *BAD* theory.
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You're right The Green Fuel.
Lets not forget about the fact that some costs are left out entirely. To operate the new programs over the first 10 years, future Congresses would need to vote for $114 billion in additional annual spending. But this so-called discretionary spending is excluded from the Congressional Budget Office's tabulation.
It really doesn't matter how the CBO scores it because we all know the truth. The truth is that government entitlements never come close to their predicted numbers. History has repeated this over and over but yet they think we'll believe it.
thanks!
Soon enough US will be down and China will conquer the world. Those stupid ass politician has done a real great service for our country.
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Think over!
And please do not confuse the "common benefit" for socialism. The key difference being that one allows for individual choice and the other doesn't. In a society nearly every interaction/decision provides some type of common benefit.
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heh, I thought the democrats were supposed to save this economy , not ruin it even more. This just goes to show any party will do anything to get in to office, but once they make it in it's a completely different story.
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Well, on the good side, I guess I'll just use my HSA to get the LASIK before Congress trys to confiscate it. I was gonna pay out of other savings eventually and save the HSA for you know, an actual health problem, but fuckit. I'm getting the Ted Williams package. Maybe I can use the rest of it to buy the cryogenics Ted Williams package, too.
This was really useful. Thanks so much for taking the time to write this up!
Do you really think the Democrats would try to call their bluff and see if they'd let people die in the streets? Who do you think would be blamed in the end by the people of the USA for any resultant illnesses or deaths? The politicians? Or the doctors?
In the end -- maybe not this time, but when this law evolves into something far worse and more draconian -- something like this will have to happen to stop people thinking that health care is a "right."
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Implementation of Fiscal Policy is very important and I think Obama's administration is lacking this part. Because its not only thedeveloping policies but their implementation is important. Thank you
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Well it seems as though we are in a make believe recession... Apparently the Bush administration provided a wonderful service and the two wars were FREE and not 10 Billion a month for almost 10 years... GO figure.. Hey how do you get one of those Low cost, High coverage,Low premium Republican Health Policies?
Oh Yeah.. All I have to do is lower some CEO's Taxes... It's like MAGIC!
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"Eventually, the deficit damage starts to add up."
How?
Hey Thanks for talking about this in a sane manner.
Saw this on Bozeman Classifieds and it was quite a discussion
that's a lot of crap from them. thanks for exposing this one.
As NJ foreclosures continue to rise, neither party has shown in the last decade of being fiscally responsible. They both serve the ultra-wealthy and their cause of getting even richer.
I like what Jesse Ventura said about comparing politics to professional wrestling.
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democrats are very deceptive. Health care reform and the democrats will fail
nice post. Democrats will fail soon enough
Hey why not triple the taxes on people that make under 250K and have 0 taxes for everyone above 250K... It would be great for the US.
Hmm Think over! And please do not confuse the "common benefit" for socialism. The key difference being that one allows for individual choice and the other doesn't.
Thanks
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Millions of people who are uninsured get care now, even for chronic conditions. Its called "charity care" and thousands of hospitals, and their thousands of employed physicians, are in the business of delivering it.
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Isn't there more to be scared of with regard to the debt?
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I am glad someone finally spoke up about this. This needs more attention from the media.
Good on you!
C'mon, are you people still believe in the politician? after all of they bullshit? wake up!
If you think you have problems in the US try over here in the UK - this country is on the verge of bankruptcy and politicians seem to be more interested in boosting their expense accounts rather than sorting out the countries finances.
Just downloaded the audio version. Thanks for putting up an audio version really makes it possible for us with eye problems to follow the current events.
we have many of the same problems over here in the UK. At the present time our country is heavily in debt, our welfare bill exceeds our taxes and our politicians seem more interested in their expense accounts than the welfare of the people
Debt is a big problem the world over, yet the reason for the debt is because more and more people demand more of Governments. One quick way to cut your expenses is to switch the supply portion of your electricity bill if you live in an Energy Deregulated state.
Debt is a problem the world over. It will never stop unless people stop asking for more Government benefits.
Energy Deregulation saves a lot.
thats what happens when you vote democrats into the white house
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No offense but I didn't like this.
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Its politics and politicians at their worst. They were just looking for something to cover their asses.
No congressmen really cared whether the CBO numbers were accurate. They know damn well that the books have been cooked.
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politics should definately considder the factor of debt more
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It was a good read. Then the clowns came in on the comments thread. Wow. Notice no one deals with her factual assertions.
Hmmmmm Keep Thinking! please do not confuse the "common benefit" for socialism and such.The man and key difference being that one allows for individual choice and the other doesn't at all. You should consider this. ebay templates
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Ir remember Alex Jones talking about this on his radio show, very enlightening.
Medicare and Medicaid needs a major regime turnover in order for things to start working properly.
Very interesting articles, and the comments section seems to have developed into a discussion of its own!
Points on fiscal responsibility or the lack there of have been well made here.
I just think we need a more colorful adjective to come before LIE, cuz what they do is flat our scandalous.
Keep em honest!
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Mostly true except for 1993 when Democrats cut spending $275 billion without a single GOP vote in either chamber in the 1993 Budget Reconciliation Act that Republicans wrongly predicted would destroy the economy.
But Dick "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Cheney was a definite low point for fiscal responsibility.
Of course he had a war to gin up.
did i was wrong there? ^^
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This is a great article as history does always repeat itself. In time people will wake up and take responsibility for there actions.
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That's basically our world before the Industrial Revolution.. It's kinda sad.
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Never say something worked well "in theory" if it doesn't work in practice.
Keynesian economics has had 100 years of opportunity to be tried and it always makes things worse precisely because it's justification for reckless spending, and contributes to the boom & bust cycles Keynes thought he was fixing.
When Republicans have declared that "deficits don't matter" it's over since Democrats have never even pretended to care about deficits.
What happens when Republicans have declared that "deficits don't matter" it's over since Democrats have never even pretended to care about deficits.
How is it possible ??
I really dont believe it..
The idea of this type of financial planning is hardly unique to the Democrats side of the spectrum. A goodly portion of the pre Holocaust government finances under H Schacht in Germany came from an even wilder type of manipulation.
And the government wonders how the deficit has gotten so out of hand. What a sham.
You're an ignorant fool. This isn't about a deficit problem, it goes much deeper than that.
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Yes it?s true. But the Article is gread.
This really is the height of stupidity isn't it? It's like the wife in a financially dysfunctional marriage justifies the purchase of a new wardrobe on credit cards by noting her husband got a loan for a new boat.
If he gets a new boat, she deserves new clothes, right?
I am a Democrat myself but sadly, I do agree with this article.
I believe that this is a very big problem in the US. With all these regulations, it is extremely hard to be fair and not judgmental of the Democrat party with these changes.
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Almost every mainstream politico has found reasons to turn to magic where defense spending is increasing since Schacht showed the Nazis how they could do it with funny money.
But that's "almost;" I routinely urge people to read General & President Eisenhower's words of warning about the "military-industrial complex." A great speech with vital warnings from somebody who really really really had the background to know what he was talking about.
Almost every mainstream politico has found reasons to turn to magic where defense spending is increasing since Schacht showed the Nazis how they could do it with funny money.
But that's "almost;" I routinely urge people to read General & President Eisenhower's words of warning about the "military-industrial complex." A great speech with vital warnings from somebody who really really really had the background to know what he was talking about.
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Almost every mainstream politico has found reasons to turn to magic where defense spending is increasing since Schacht showed the Nazis how they could do it with funny money.
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Ahh man I give up with these politicians, why are we ever surprised when they lie, cheat and steal?? They're ALL the same and many of them in all honesty hold no power at all..They take orders from higher up even the president
Ahh man I give up with these guys..Why are we even surprised anymore when we hear about these fools deceiving us?
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Almost every mainstream politico has found reasons to turn to magic where defense spending is increasing since Schacht showed the Nazis how they could do it with funny money.
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Democrats made history all right ? but only by sacrificing us all...
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Pretty bold statement. However we should all be aware that "trickle down economics" is not working.
My thoughts exactly.
It would be fixed now it everyone were actually working together on the problem...
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Great article. I fully agree with author. It is time people will wake up and take responsibility for there actions.
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"Pretty bold statement. However we should all be aware that "trickle down economics" is not working."
I totally agree with you!
Things will never be the same again.
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We have the same issues in the UK and the medicine is the same - Deep Cuts in Spending which is likely going to make the current government the most unpopular for many a year. Its kind of interesting having an administration go for the most unpopular policy.
At least they can blame it on the other lot for the mess they found the country in!
It is always easier to throw rocks from outside. Sounds pretty one sided. Any party in power needs. To spend to provide services. One spends on the benefit of society otherone on benefit of huge corporations who outsource jobs. Take your pick. Let's not forget under Eisenhauer tax rate was 91%
It is always easier to throw rocks from outside. Sounds pretty one sided. Any party in power needs. To spend to provide services. One spends on the benefit of society otherone on benefit of huge corporations who outsource jobs. Take your pick.
It is always easier to throw rocks from outside. Sounds pretty one sided. Any party in power needs. To spend to provide services. One spends on the benefit of society otherone on benefit of huge corporations who outsource jobs. Take your pick.
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Millions of people who are uninsured get care now, even for chronic conditions. Its called "charity care" and thousands of hospitals, and their thousands of employed physicians, are in the business of delivering it.
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November is fast approaching. Election time is in the air. Let's see what will happen.
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till now i have some confusion that what is Fiscal Responsibility.. now i am clear on it.
I said in existence today. Bush could not have done it, if medicare did not exist.
Amazingly skewed article. Hmmmmmm... Don't think the democrats inherited the mess from the republicans?
very interesting. i agree with your point of view
It's good to read that someone is finally speaking out and saying a lot what is on peoples minds.
i think your article is great
Well said its good to hear/read someone speak out and say what a lot think.
It good to hear someone finally speak out.
It is refreshing hearing some sense for a change. Keep up the good info.
I would have to agree with Paul T on this one. Thanks GWB.
Well said no congress really do care.
You are very right and no congressman really cares.
You are right and no congressman really cares.
Thanks for the insight and all agreed with the above. Good stuff
All politics is corrupt and we will never be happy with any party as the have a free ticket to do as they please.
If democrats realy want to make their fiscal policy work then they have to go back to grass roots! Start with the people who voted them in and what they voted for "Change" and radical change to the spread the burden of the cost. When was the last time you saw a senator ride a bike to work!!! and ditch the auto? did you ever.......I spent time and energy building a blog to help people who cared about getting things right resposibly and save money to help with the hurt of the impending squeez what have they done? Bikes and cycling accessories.com you heard it senators....Get on your bike and ride
While this is a concern, I believe that most of us are only interested in the stock market and the results. Anyway, I decided that Moving to China was the best option. Nice write up.
I do Shanghai Website Design in China, but I want to make sure that there are no problems with the US economy as I still have family and financial assets in the USA. Good points and valid concerns.
As someone who makes a living as a Taobao English Agent, it makes sense that my concern for the US economy continues. If it falters, my business falters. Your points raise concern on my end.
Yea, I have concerns about the USA economy as well. Your points just articulate it better. Until then, I'll continue working with Prescription Sports Goggles
I spend my time sharing public knowledge of what I perceive to be the best home gym, but trust me, this economy is also a concern of mine. Thanks for sharing.
This whole site is full of great info but this post would really get your back up. I think I will just chill with my Gaggia Classic and let the world pass me by.
Good points, I am also concerned by the lack of vision of the people here. Anyway, you can get Cheap Poker Tables if the economy does plunge.
The debate goes on...some one has to bell the cat. The Health care reform is long due. This time at least we have done something get this fixed. But the 1st priority should have been "more jobs".
Agree, Washington needs to get their act together.
It is for reasons like this that I am no longer voting.
As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter...democrat/republican. This country is run by corporations. Politicians are nothing more than puppets.
I agree, and the big problem is that no no congressman really cares. If that is the case, this is definitely a big issue.
Thanks for the insight and all agreed with the above. Good stuff
Ahh.. the Democrats have opted for another approach.
I believe that Democrats have already lost rural voters.
Truly believable. Very nice post!
Responsibility is all relative to the person, if they didn't believe it, it has no meanings.
This is the problem with our society: there is not enough responsibility.
Indeed the history allows the abusive conduit of the conquer.
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yes indeed. nice post , lol.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, the guy moving the mirrors and blowing the smoke... When was the last time a government program went over the projected cost? It's preposterous to think one could ever do so!
Washington no longer cares for the people of this country. They clearly have a secret and personal agenda and it doesn't appear to be in the country's best interests.
I believe in health care for everybody but health care reform implies it's improved or fixed in some way. The new plan does more damage than good by stealing from the future of our children.
Instead of forcing everyone onto a government controlled single payer system, why don't they just work to provide insurance only for those without it? Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper than the current plan?
"How Democrats used deceptive accounting to make history with health care reform."
You're darn tootin they did! Thanks for calling them out. And now time has proven it even more and they have their dues a coming.
As noted earlier, other countries have universal health care but it's not really working. There are countless stories of people not getting needed, timely healthcare.
Besides, the average American cannot afford more taxes.
With the aging baby boomer generation retiring, meaning paying less taxes, who do you think will pay for the hellth care reform?
What's left of the working class, that's who.
You and your children and your childrens children until America becomes a 3rd world country and impoverished like the others.
I guess it doesn't seem fair to the rest of the world unless all countries are equally impoverished.
Everyone likes to talk about fiscal responsibility and balancing budgets, but no one is standing in line to be the first to volunteer to give up their entitlements.
Its posts like these that make the internet worth while :/
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Thanks again Reason for giving me another reason to come back here again 😛
A modern fiscal policy is absolutely necessary and I think the new administration has to put more effort on this topic and focus a bit more. Obama has to think about this.
Doesn't it seem that whoever is in office is the one where fault lies?
and so we wait for elections in November.
and so we wait for the next elections in November.
The truth is that congressmen don't care. Lets face it.
Thanks for this insight, which brings us back to our reality.
Very nice post.Another reason to come back and read your good insights.
Great post!
I am so tired of people bashing. If you have constructive opinion please says it instead pointing fingers all the time.
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Absolute power corrupts absolutely especially when money is involved. There is a solution to political corruption. Complete financial transparency.
And these are the people trying to run our country.
And this is from people trying to run our country.
Great info and insight,agreed with all said.
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As always, the democrats get in the way.
As always the democrats seem to get in the way while the republicans have the answers.
As always the democrats seem to get in the way while the republicans have the answers.
Seems like the democrats have it all wrong and the republicans know the right way to go.
Tnx. I guess it doesn't seem fair to the rest of the world unless all countries are equally impoverished.
There are more significant differences, apart from those already pointed out.
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That's a very good article you wrote, it's sad, but true.
That comment you posted is true, it's sad, but it is definitely true.
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Let's get to the heart of the matter. Corporate America is running the show. Money talks and politicians listen.
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And this is from people trying to run our country.
Let's get to the heart of the matter. Corporate America is running the show. Money talks and politicians listen.
Let's get to the heart of the matter. Corporate America is running the show. Money talks and politicians listen.
Let's get to the heart of the matter. Corporate America is running the show. Money talks and politicians listen.
I hope you will keep updating your content constantly as you have one dedicated reader here.
"But health care votes bought with promises of fiscal responsibility might as well have been bought with suitcases full of Monopoly money. The truth is that the bill is the exact opposite of fiscally responsible", very well put.
I gotta go with the majority here it does sound like a bunch of bull to increase spending. I don't like it a bit.
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Sad to read this. Reform is all well and good but number bending is not the way to go
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Very well written although this post is a few months old. Hopefully this Tuesday we can make a difference with our voting!
I can't wait for this Tuesday when congress will get turned around!
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Good information, I can't wait for this Tuesday because the tides are going to change in Washington!
Makes you appreciate the fact that they have the NHS system here in the UK.
This will put more pressure on the future of the economy and only time will tell, how effective it will be.
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This will put more pressure on the future of the economy and only time will tell, how effective it will be....
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If I ran my household budget like some countries run their budgets I would be declared bankrupt and probably thrown in jail.
The math is simple: money out should equal less than money in.
If I ran my household budget like some countries run their budgets I would be declared bankrupt and probably thrown in jail.
The math is simple: money out should equal less than money in.
If I ran my household budget like some countries run their budgets I would be declared bankrupt and probably thrown in jail.
The math is simple: money out should equal less than money in.
If I ran my household budget like some countries run their budgets I would be declared bankrupt and probably thrown in jail.
The math is simple: money out should equal less than money in.
If I ran my household budget like some countries run their budgets I would be declared bankrupt and probably thrown in jail.
The math is simple: money out should equal less than money in.
A politician is always a politician. It doesn't matter which side of the political divide they come from.
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It seems these days when I hear a politician talk all I hear is blah blah blah.
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Was all the talking during campaign just for acquiring political points or is obama and democrats will to take some action because this is becoming big issue
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Mostly true except for 1993 when Democrats cut spending $275 billion without a single GOP vote in either chamber in the 1993 Budget Reconciliation Act that Republicans wrongly predicted would destroy the economy.
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As noted earlier, other countries have universal health care but it's not really working. There are countless stories of people not getting needed, timely healthcare.
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Politicians are politicians. They don't want to talk about the deficit because they are all involved in its creation. No one side can sling mud at the other without some of it sticking to themselves.
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Most people, when they criticize, whether they like it or hate it, they're talking about product. That's not art, that's the result of art. Art, to whatever degree we can get a handle on (I'm not sure that we really can) is a process. It begins in the heart and the mind with the eyes and hands.
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This will be an ongoing debate for a while. If you live in Canada, getting Ontario health insurance is free, as health care should be.
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This was enlightening to say the least. I do worry about our spending so I try not to think about it too much. With great power comes great responsibility.
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By the budget deficit resulted: senseless wars, the credit pyramid, the poor knowledge of the financial market laws. America falls into the abyss.
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If you want to put your money away somewhere safe then invest in gold sovereigns.
Fiscal responsibility? Come on, what a joke^^
Fiscal responsibility is a joke that the government tells us in order to shut our mouth. People, stand up finally!
By the budget deficit resulted: senseless wars, the credit pyramid, the poor knowledge of the financial market laws. America falls into the abyss.
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The government needs to run like our business lean and mean and cut all the fat.
Run the government like we run our business lean and mean, cut the fat.
What a great post the government needs to stay out of the insurance business.
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This is a very interesting. It would be good to know if things will change in this coming Christmas season. Gifts and Kids, always make a difference.
Anyway, Hope things will turn better in this coming Christmas
Great idea - all very interesting. This xmas, as we buy our xmas toys, it will pay to think about this, the haves and the have nots.
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America deserves all the problems this time. When the Islamists will have an atomic bomb, the government will have very bad.
One of systems works, financing to the states passes very badly, for certain the most part of money put for financing of hospitals and other state structures is taken away on pockets
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This is a very interesting. It would be good to know if things will change in this coming Christmas season. Gifts and Kids, always make a difference.
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Great post, perhaps it might work, but maybe it became just a justification to spend more, because its part from political issue. Thanks for share and keep update
Great article, perhaps it might work, but maybe it became just a justification to spend more, because its part from political issue
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Really nice post, Mostly true except for 1993 when Democrats cut spending $275 billion without a single GOP vote in either chamber in the 1993 Budget Reconciliation Act that Republicans wrongly predicted would destroy the economy.
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You hit the nail on the head with the comment on entitlements being like house guests. That is the problem with gov't. It only ever gets larger and more expensive to run. With so many vested interests and lobbyist, I wonder how we'll ever get this to change?
You really make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this topic to be really something which I think I would never understand. It seems too complicated and very broad for me. I am looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!
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I definitely think democrats should rethink their strategy to get get any type of policy to be approved.
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Im a bit late to the discussion but you were absolutely right when you said "neither party was willing to do anything". Kind of makes you wish there was a viable 3rd optipn.
Why don't we do the best thing for our country rather than our party.
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"made his by sacrificing the future" - yeah I'm sure if they tried hard enough there were a lot of sustainable avenues they could have taken by thats them for you! :/
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Health Care reform is the reason that governor, what was her name... Governor Gabrielle Giffords was shot. Jesus what is this world coming to.
Health Care reform is the reason that governor, what was her name... Governor Gabrielle Giffords was shot. Jesus what is this world coming to.
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Be a belly dance teacher in Orlando Florida, I really cant afford Health Care.
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Eventually, the deficit damage starts to add up.
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I am sick of lies and politics, anyway, thank you for great post.
I am sick of lies and politics but anyway thank you for excellent article
I am sick of lies and politics but anyway thank you for excellent article
Very inspiring and motivational post. Thank yout for sharing it with us.
Surely this figures will now have to be revised given the current economic climate.
I think politicians should actually do their jobs like their supposed. thanks for this article.
I guess that's politics for us. 🙁
That's politics for us.
Exactly, all politicians are financially incontinent. We should have a separate Health tax so we can know and debate exactly how much we are taxed.
Very nice article.
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What people do not realize is that we will be experiencing the economic downturn from the last presidential administration for years to come. Of course it is the new administration's duty to make good decisions about this countries financial future but even effects of the best ideas will not be felt for a very long time.
Actually Pelosi may indeed be made of wood.
How's the life expectancy in Russia? Still declining? Yes, that's picking the easy case, but it still proves that UHC has no inherent positive correlation with health outcomes.
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We will always be in a an economic downswing as long as we keep buying from the damn China men
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a thoroughly enjoyable read!
I agree with you that ...they don't even seem to care or even make out as if they do.
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Good information, I can't wait for this Tuesday because the tides are going to change in Washington!
We definitely need more accountability and fiscal responsibility. It is essential to turning around the economy and narrowing the deficit. - PCOS
I agree. We need more accountability and fiscal responsibility. They are key to stimulating economic growth and renewing the trust of the American public. The high deficit level is extremely dangerous to the future health of the country. We have to do better.
I'd like to revisit this topic and the state of the deficit after the proposed $13 Trillion budget cut
Of course it is the new administration's duty to make good decisions about this countries financial future but even effects of the best ideas will not be felt for a very long time. | ran ??? |
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Personally I dont trust the democrats, but lets see how it all pans out in future. May get a few surprises on my part.
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Health is most important but Medicare costs are very expensive
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Wow... well, politicians will be politicians. Whataya gunna do? 🙂
very informative post about politicians
What a great post.
You should also talk about the CNN's latest news about Osama too.
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politicians and lie are the same...
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Yeah that is true for politicians
This world keeps getting sadder and sadder...
Perhaps it might work well in theory, but when Keynesianism met politics, it became just a justification to spend more.
As noted earlier, other countries have universal health care but it's not really working. There are countless stories of people not getting needed, timely healthcare.
Wow... well, politicians will be politicians. Whataya gunna do? 🙂
What people do not realize is that we will be experiencing the economic downturn from the last presidential administration for years to come.
I agree. Its politics and politicians at their worst. They were just looking for something to cover their asses.
Agree, this is a fiscally conservative maneuver... No more than that.
Very interesting, and somewhat contrarian, point of view. Gave me some food for thought!
I agree. Democrats are no better than republicans...
Unfortunately, I have to say this world keeps getting sadder and sadder...
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You end up with rule by whichever sociopath with a gun manages to win.
You end up with rule by whichever sociopath with a gun manages to win.
I love the author's statement, "Reform and repeal efforts are about as successful as kindergarten experiments with do-it-yourself haircuts." Witty.
Seriously, entitlements are breaking the US fiscal back.
It will be a great day when that train wreck of a healthcare bill is repealed!
Very well written post with some good points never trust a polotician their all upto no good looking out for number one as we all should.
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The results from the debt happen to be deferred effectively, since the government found lots of suckers to purchase their junk bonds. It does not become a political issue before shit hits the fan.
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And we're about to be in for an even rockier ride...
And, after August 2nd, we\'re about to be in for an even rockier ride. It\'ll be interesting to see what Congress comes up with (or doesn\'t) this weekend.
And, after August 2nd, we're about to be in for an even rockier ride. It'll be interesting to see what Congress comes up with (or doesn't) this weekend.
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Its great to see so many people talking about debt as an issue in politics. With more and more people in financially unstable positions, it's important that public awareness is raised on issues such as financial literacy, the importance of cash loans and other short term finance options, as well as debt and its effects on individuals and households. Great article.
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Totally true.
Great article, I often think about the scale of the problem in Ireland (that is, how they are dealing with their fiscal depression - its quite sad to see)
I agree with you in terms of the current financial state of the Irish. They seems totally screwed. There political parties haven't a clue.
Yeah, I agree with you on that point about Ireland's property crash. My god, you should see the damage done up in Donegal
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Damn Democrats, all we can do for now is watch them stuff our health system even futher.
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think its the responsibility of Federal Govt to ensure the proper implementation of Fiscal Policy.
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I hope the courts throw this out and we get on a more sustainable path.
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I do not follow politics closely but I do know that both the Democrats and the Republicans need to stop their bickering and get this country back on track with health care and everything else.
Seriously? I strongly believe it's nothing to do with "lies"
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Great post, well written and very informative.
You have to take your responsibility when it comes to fiscal issues. Just make sure your follow the rules and there will be no problems.
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We must do video capture to record all the fiscal lie, so our generation will know about the dirty. This is not only become cable-news victory but it's also document in our history.
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If they lie on their fiscal duty, how can they will manage this country with clean government without abuse of their power? The politician must know ordinary people like me just work very hard only can buy cheaper ticket for holiday and also only use promotion code for carnival excursions
Its funny to talk about lies when all the humanity lives in it!
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Fiscally we are inborn with responsibility in our hearts.
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As we get closer to a more full implementation of the ACA that fiscal responsibility lie will rear it's head for all to see.
Most politicians seem to see the truth as irrelevant, which means they subscribe to Adolf Hitler's strategy that "the end justifies the means."
Yet they expect all citizens to tell the government the truth and nothing but the truth and, unless you're a politican or a goverment bureaucrat, you're imprisoned if you do not. Why aren't more politicans impeached for their lies and for breaking their oath to uphold the constitution? Isn't what's sauce for the goose still sauce for the gander?
As soon as the full scope of the new grand entitlement, the ACA is known there will be a lot of politicians that will need to try and justify that fiscal responsibility lip service they talk.
Yeah sure, what fiscal responsibility? Both sides spend and waste like there is no tomorrow.
Deceptive accounting? That's for sure, our whole govt is run by deceptive accounting.
Only now 5 years later are we really finding out what all this fiscal responsibility is actually going to cost this country. Hopefully someone will get elected that can turn this train wreck around.
"Democrats made history all right?but only by sacrificing the future." - true
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everyone remember that "Washington's true attitude towards history is that of an abusive conqueror; it's not something to learn from, it's something to triumph over."
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