New York City Decrees That Coffee and Tobacco Do Not Mix

Vince Nastri III paid $9,000 for the coffee machine he installed in his lower Manhattan tobacco shop. Now it could cost him thousands of dollars more. The city's health department is threatening him with fines, saying he is operating a "food-service establishment" without a permit, even though the coffee is free. Nastri could apply for a permit, but then his customers would no longer be allowed to smoke.

Comments

[Joe M]

Stay classy, New York.

[Xeones]

Do we really need New York City anymore?

[joe]

The war on tobacco has gone way too far.

[Warty]

I was all excited to bust out a shut the fuck up, joe, but then it turned out to be a fake joe. Yo, fuck fake joes.

[JW]

"...and that's how the king made everyone happy in Absurdistan. The end."

[philip]

and the citizens of New York get what they deserve, fuck em

[Xeones]

Oh man, poor (new) joe! He doesn't know anything about the incredibly large and smelly shoes into which he has inadvertently stepped.

[ransom147]

poor sap. hint - leave ny...

[Warty]

New joe, you'll want to modify your name to reduce confusion. I suggest Chimpanzee joe.

[Episiarch]

"Gorilla Suit joe"

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sure, anyone can make things like this seem maddenly absurd if you detail the situation. But if you instead write that the City of New York just saved dozens of coffee drinkers from lung cancer or saved dozens of smokers from getting all jittery, then you've made a positive contribution to Bloomberg's War on Individualism.

[Pro Libertate]

joejoeba.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fudge. "Maddeningly".

[wingnutx]

Just walking by that store will stunt your growth.

[Nipplemancer]

Fuck Bloomberg!

[BakedPenguin]

Joe Joe Binks?

[Pro Libertate]

If you need a new handle, pick some old judge's name. Like Learned Hand. Sounds smart, vaguely Indian, and somehow related to masturbation, all at the same time!

[Xeones]

You guys are all racists.

[Episiarch]

"Neojoe"

[Pro Libertate]

joe ho, joe ho, a pirate's life for me.

[Pro Libertate]

There's always Gojoe, the hand cleanser.

[sage]

The guy paid $9k for a coffee machine to make coffee he's going to GIVE AWAY? Damn.

[Ska]

And this dick is going to win a third term that he regulated into existence because there are no better candidates. I love my city, but all these bedwetting, busybody pussies need to move back to wherever the fuck they came here from. Or just to California.

[james]

How long until they start handing out tickets for smoking while driving?

[ransom147]

when i was a kid my mother called me "joe-bee-bow-bee" it was the most embarrassing thing in the world... (to a little kid)

[JW]

That's some good joe.

[BakedPenguin]

You guys are all racists.

Damn right, you fucking Persian bastard.

[brotherben]

FauxJoe?

[Zombie Bill Hicks]

It's not a war on drugs it's a war on BRAAAAAAIIIIIIINSSSSSSSSSS. Keep that in mind at all times, thank you.

[Episiarch]

"Joe the Lion"

[Pro Libertate]

Wasn't Xeones Spartan? Spartans were notoriously Greek.

Persian Bastard would be a good name.

[JW]

How long until they start handing out tickets for smoking while driving?

"He was smoking, drinking non fair-trade coffee and texting against Obama's health plan while driving an SUV without a seatbelt!"

[Warty]

joejob.

[JW]

joe, the sad birthday party clown.

[ransom147]

isn't fair trade still a free market hippie solution?

[Justice Potter]

and the citizens of New York get what they deserve, fuck em

Win some, lose some. Marijuana and cocaine delivery services are heavily weighted in my "PLUS" column, along with about a million other reasons to live in NYC.

This, while idiotic, is a feather on the negative column, especially when compared to vagrants, subways, vagrants in subways, obscene rent, rent control/welfare for Charlie Rangel, yadda yadda yadda.

To each his own.

[Nipplemancer]

JW- isn't that a felony in California?

[JW]

isn't fair trade still a free market hippie solution?

Evidently more hippie than free market.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/33257.html

[Rhywun]

Some flunky in the bowels of the Health Department just lost their job, by failing to realize that the applicable laws don't apply to "City Hall staffers, bankers, lawyers and detectives" and other members of the "high-end Wall Street crowd". D'oh!

[Nipplemancer]

charlie rangel is a reason to move to harlem, just to vote against him. without that, i can't see him ever getting voted out. if the fat bastard could do a marion barry backflip while snorting coke with three hookers and a midget - in HD w/ surround sound - he'd still get re-elected.

[sage]

joe mama.

[james]

"He was smoking, drinking non fair-trade coffee and texting against Obama's health plan while driving an SUV without a seatbelt!"

Now that's one I just don't get. How is me choosing to endanger my life by not wearing a seatbelt a risk to ANYONE but myself? I can see where they're coming from, a little, with cell phone laws and texting laws, but nobody on the road is less safe but me when I don't feel like "clicking it."

[BakedPenguin]

Wasn't Xeones Spartan?

He was? My bad.

Damn right, you fucking Greek bastard. Go make me a gyro.

[guy in the back row]

New York City Decrees That Coffee and Tobacco Do Not Mix

They obviously don't smoke, 'cause there ain't nuthin better than a smoke and a coffee.

[Kevin]

Here's to you, lowercase joe, the new holder of the record for being driven away from H&R in the least amount of time.

BTW, there is another Kevin out there, but he usually includes a URL and I normally agree with him. We've decided to form an army of Kevin-bots.

[The Libertarian Guy]

How the fuck is coffee considered "food"?

[Invisible Finger]

cuppajoe

[Iggy]

Cigarettes and coffee, man, that's a combination.

[Anomalous]

New Yorkers should be figuring out a way to rid themselves of that little dictator, instead they're making him Mayor for Life.

[Pro Libertate]

joebama.

[FrBunny]

jOleo

[@]

From the article:
Even to give coffee away for free he needs a permit to operate as a food-service establishment

Stupid permitting issues notwithstanding, this isn't about smoking at all. He would need a permit for the coffee machine whether he was selling or magazines cigars or soap. "Coffee and Tobacco Do Not Mix," Jacob? Sorry, but this one is a bit disingenuous. Fail.

[Warty]

legend of reason
commands no respect at all
shut the fuck up, joe

[wingnutx]

Where The Fuck Is Diane With My Fair-Trade Coffee?

[J sub D]

Cigarettes and coffee, man, that's a combination.

No. That's the breakfast of champions.

[brotherben]

No. That's the breakfast of champions.

Toss in a Vicodin, a Lyrica and a quarter of a Viagra(to keep me from pissin on my shoes) and now you're talkin.

[TrickyVic]

"""and the citizens of New York get what they deserve, fuck em"""

And the citizens got what they deserved with Obama, right?

"""New Yorkers should be figuring out a way to rid themselves of that little dictator, instead they're making him Mayor for Life."""

From what I'm hearing Thompson is already beating him in the polls.

However, the smoking ban it no longer Bloomberg's doing since the state approved the ban, albeit the state followed his lead.

I can't wait to get rid of the guy. I'm a firm believer of nipplemancer's 4:20 post.

[JW]

Stupid permitting issues notwithstanding, this isn't about smoking at all.

pssst

The city's health department is threatening him with fines, saying he is operating a "food-service establishment" without a permit, even though the coffee is free. Nastri could apply for a permit, but then his customers would no longer be allowed to smoke.

[PR]

Even to give coffee away for free he needs a permit to operate as a food-service establishment

So the coffee machines in cop stations and City of NY offices etc. all have permits?

[R C Dean]

if the fat bastard could do a marion barry backflip while snorting coke with three hookers and a midget - in HD w/ surround sound - he'd still get re-elected.

[R C Dean]

Again with non-fail tags:

if the fat bastard could do a marion barry backflip while snorting coke with three hookers and a midget - in HD w/ surround sound - he'd still get re-elected..

Hell, if he did that, I'd vote for him.

I apologize in advance for the following:

No coffee for you!

[brotherben]

No coffee for you!

I keep telling myself I am here for the stimulating political discourse. Truth is, I love all the nods to decades of popular culture.

[lunchstealer]

Joen Bart?

[thew83]

but nobody on the road is less safe but me when I don't feel like "clicking it."

You could become a dangerous projectile when ejected from your vehicle...?

[ransom147]

You could become a dangerous projectile when ejected from your vehicle...?

libertarians can't be ejected from vehicles 'cause they always catch their top hats on the way out.

[SusanM]

If anyone needs evidence that the war on tobacco is a (sorry for the pun) smokescreen for statism here it is. And I'm not talking about just the issue in question, but in general. How can you make the statement with a straight face that you are improving the health of people in one of the most polluted cities in North America by banning smoking?

(BTW, pointy-headed statists can also be an ejection danger)

[lunchstealer]

By the way, I would buy this if all free coffee were treated the same way. If you go into the local Audi dealer, they offer you your choice of a couple of varieties of hoity-toity coffee, also for free. By this logic, they'd also be a food service establishment.

Hell, around here you can serve beer without a liquor license, as long as you give it away. The new Freebird's opened up a few years ago, and you could get a burrito for $5, and they'd hand you a Shiner to go with it (well, you had to ask, and they'd card you, but still, free beer [TANSTAAFB notwithstanding]).

[R C Dean]

Stupid permitting issues notwithstanding, this isn't about smoking at all. He would need a permit for the coffee machine whether he was selling or magazines cigars or soap.

So every bookstore in Manhattan that has a coffee for its customers has a permit? Give me a break.

Until someone produces a list of other establishments treated this way, I see no reason to doubt that this place was targetted because it sells Evil Tobacco.

[JB]

So the coffee machines in cop stations and City of NY offices etc. all have permits?

hahaha! I would love to see a lawyer try selective prosecution with that.

[Thogek]

Most auto-dealers' maintenance/repair shops that I've been to had coffee machines out where waiting customers could grab a free cup or two. Does that these auto dealers are all operating a "food-service establishment" without a permit? Better round 'em all up?

Don't many police stations offer free coffee for thirsty visitors, too? Officers, cite thyselves...

How many other businesses all over allow customers and visitors to tap a little coffee while they browse, wait, or otherwise spend time there?

Actually... if a New Yorker has a coffee-maker in his/her kitchen, and lets visiting friends use it... should s/he be worried?

A[nother?] point against the business-friendliness level of NYC.

[LeeJoe Cruz]

Now I gotta watch Anchorman, thanks alot Joe. *with a Punch Cigar and a cup of Cafe Oro of course*

[P Broks]

joeblob!

I have a sudden urge to open a gun store with free cigarettes, coffee, and deep-fried goose liver on a stick.

[Rhywun]

From what I'm hearing Thompson is already beating him in the polls.

Sadly, all the likely alternatives to Bloomberg are demonstrably worse. That includes Thompson.

If you go into the local Audi dealer, they offer you your choice of a couple of varieties of hoity-toity coffee, also for free.

Not to mention many offices offer free coffee to their employees. I don't see the regulation restaurant license hanging anywhere in my break room.

[@]

R C Dean | August 31, 2009, 6:20pm | #

So every bookstore in Manhattan that has a coffee for its customers has a permit? Give me a break.

You know they don't. It's a big city. But selective enforcement doesn't make the law any less valid.

I see no reason to doubt that this place was targetted because it sells Evil Tobacco.

You're only guessing, based on your political biases. But you really don't know.

[ransom147]

@:

"I see no reason to doubt that this place was targetted because it sells Evil Tobacco.

You're only guessing, based on your political biases. But you really don't know."

given bloomberg' past hostility to smokers and overall commitment to nanny state principles; i'd say R C has a fair hypothesis.

and selective enforcement? it's a bs law in the first place; but it's even worse when used to persecute certain groups!

[J.P.]

When you think about it, the two really don't mix. Small cities can be destroyed by the resulting colon blow, which is close to being designated a WMD.

[ransom147]

and selective enforcement? it's a bs law in the first place; but it's even worse when used to persecute certain groups!

well i guess that's rather redundant of me, as that is the goal of all regulation...

[Tulpa]

New York City Decrees That Coffee and Tobacco Do Not Mix

What are you talking about? I mix tobacco into my coffee every morning. It does get a little lumpy, I'll admit.

[ransom147]

"What are you talking about? I mix tobacco into my coffee every morning. It does get a little lumpy, I'll admit."

every now and then, i'll put a cigarette butt in my Jameson so i can remember why i hate scotch...

[JW]

You're only guessing, based on your political biases. But you really don't know.

Ah, another joe-like (the real joe?) whose world is a stasis bubble from within which no outside data can flow into. Nothing is implicit in their world.

Bloomberg bans smoking in every possible manner with a complicit and eager public health dept. to back him up. The city guvmint is openly hostile to smoking.

But, nah, we're just guessing.

[`????]

?O, joe-ho.

[Seamus]

What a whiner this Nastri is. He needs to realize that tobacco merchants are the equivalent of child pornographers, and he should count himself lucky that the city lets him ply his perverted trade at all. He complains about not being allowed to give away coffee? Let's see how he likes it when the city requires all tobacco shops to adhere to a uniform decorating scheme, designed to match that of a grocery store in Moscow ca. 1949, but with large wall posters showing color photos of lungs ravaged by cancer and emphysema. And requires him to wear a t-shirt saying, "I am a drug trafficker."

[The Libertarian Guy]

Obama could bring the unruly masses to its collective knees without firing a shot:

Ban caffeine, sugar, and tobacco, and take every bullet out of every gun supply outlet.

Well, there might be SOME gunfire...

[JW]

Let's see how he likes it when the city requires all tobacco shops to adhere to a uniform decorating scheme, designed to match that of a grocery store in Moscow ca. 1949

Or Berlin shop windows, 1936....

Godwin!!!

[Rhywun]

Or East Germany, circa 1986.

[Robert]

How could a coffee machine cost $9,000, even if it did make those fancy coffees? I bet I could make one cheaper. It's just that nobody would believe it. I can't make any money. I'm going to have to find friends who can lend me money for rent tomorrow, again.

[@]

it's a bs law in the first place; but it's even worse when used to persecute certain groups!

Agreed, if his "group" is being selectively "persecuted" (a rather strong term, considering what genuinely persecuted "groups" have endured over the ages) but the story here is a bit of a nonstory. The place has existed for three generations without a coffee maker. The price of the coffee maker is irrelevant. He'll stay in business if he gets rid of the coffee maker. He's hardly the target and victim of a Stalinist pogrom.

[Rhywun]

He'll stay in business if he gets rid of the coffee maker at the whim of City Council, who might remove the exception granted him to the city's anti-smoking laws at any time.

FTFY.

[R C Dean]

How could a coffee machine cost $9,000, even if it did make those fancy coffees?

I think I know the machine he bought. It makes one (1) cup at a time. It is uber-cool - you can control every possible parameter, from water temp to steeping time. I think its machined out of a single block of stainless steel or something.

[The Libertarian Guy]

"He's hardly the target and victim of a Stalinist pogrom."

No, we ALL are, by degrees - it'll take a while to complete, though.

What he IS a victim of, is horseshit rules made up by some fucking do-gooder. It makes zero sense to prevent this man from selling coffee.

[Pro Libertate]

How could a coffee machine cost $9,000, even if it did make those fancy coffees?

It uses heavy water.

[Solana]

Dear NYC Government,

Please leave NYC the fuck alone.

Oky thx bye.

[@]

The Libertarian Guy | September 1, 2009, 10:16am | #

"He's hardly the target and victim of a Stalinist pogrom."

No, we ALL are, by degrees...

Hyperbole is the language of libertarianism.

[JW]

He's hardly the target and victim of a Stalinist pogrom.

THIS is your standard by which to judge guvmint actions?

"Well, you lost your business and as a result, your home, but hey, you weren't starved to death on the collective! Buck up!"

@, take a look for the trees. They're inside the forest.

[TrickyVic]

Of course it's BS against the hated tobacco sellers. I think the law in question only applys if the tobacco shops were selling coffee.

Giving away food does not make you a food services establishment, selling it would.