Some Deficit Perspective: It Might Be Awful, But at Least It's Also Unprecedented
From the Christian Science Monitor:
To put some context on a new estimate that puts this year's federal deficit at $1.8 trillion, consider this: That amount had never been spent by the federal government in a single year until 2000, let alone borrowed.
That's right. As the decade began, the US government spent $1.8 trillion in a year for the first time. Now it's poised to spend that much in excess of its tax revenues.
The Treasury released the latest figures Wednesday, showing spending of about $3 trillion in the past 10 months, and revenues of only $1.74 trillion…..The fiscal position will remain difficult, since baby boomers are already starting to retire in a wave that will grow more costly in coming years.
But don't worry--they are only doing this because they have to. They'll stop soon. As soon as they can:
The soaring deficits have raised worries among foreign owners of US Treasury securities including the Chinese, the largest holder of such debt. President Barack Obama's economic team sought to reassure the Chinese during high-level talks last month that the administration is committed to reducing the deficits once the current economic and financial crises have been resolved.
[Hat tip on link: the indispensable Rational Review.]
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
I blame Bush
It is a shame that there isn't another Earth with the same initial conditions in say 2007 in which not spending and printing money could be tried. It would be great to be able to see if Libertopia erupted there or if they fell into the second Great Depression.
We are SO screwed.
From Dr. Evil himself Karl Rove this morning. It is pretty sobering.
"It's true that the deficit was $455 billion when Mr. Obama took office, with $325.3 billion of that from the bank rescue bill Sen. Obama supported.
But since Jan. 20, Mr. Obama has only added to the red ink. He has signed into law a $787 billion stimulus package and a $33 billion expansion of the State Child Health Insurance Program. He's greenlighted spending another $330.4 billion in bank rescue money. And he signed a $410 billion bill to fund discretionary spending for the second half of the current fiscal year, an increase of 8% on an annual basis. By supporting each spending initiative, he robbed himself of the ability to credibly blame others for the size of the deficit. "
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346512956227346.html
Karl Rove is a racist.
Flyover Country is a fascist AND probably a racist.
"the administration is committed to reducing the deficits once the current economic and financial crises have been resolved."
Yep, and next time Lucy is definitely going to let Charlie Brown kick that football.
You know Republicans and Democrats are both driving this car over the cliff. The Democrats just have the accelerator gunned, while the Republicans are coasting.
Man, it would be nice to see someone not only brake, but turn the car around.
Sal Paradise is a sexist, a fascist, and racist against Cartoon-Americans.
coarsetad is obviously a fascist, too.
Hey! I am also a bigot, damnit!!!
"sought to reassure the Chinese during high-level talks last month that the administration is committed to reducing the deficits once the current economic and financial crises have been resolved."
Did the Chinese laugh?
I think those brakes are out...since it requires someone in DC to actually know how to maintain them
someone tell Rove that his side lost...it's a huge disappointment that WSJ gives him any print...but not a total surprise. I'll skip anything that Texas troll has to say
This is America, damn it...we run deficits and run em BIG. China can suck it...until they tell the UST to swallow
It's no wonder that the stock market is crashing into the cellar and interest rates for long-term Treasuries are going through the roof!
Oh, and over in Europe, you know, those guys are so stupid! But in France and Germany, their economies are growing! Go figure!
China can suck it...until they tell the UST to swallow
Wait, so is the US 69ing China, or are they just going to snowball the Treasury? Your metaphor kind of goes off the rails there, you fascist.
"the administration is committed to reducing the deficits once the current economic and financial crises have been resolved."
Is that before or after True Socialism is established?
I thought deficits, when run by Republicans, hurt the economy and created economic crises.
"someone tell Rove that his side lost...it's a huge disappointment that WSJ gives him any print...but not a total surprise. I'll skip anything that Texas troll has to say"
That is right. And when his side wins again, they can tell your side to fuck off and will stomp all over you just like you stomp all over them. That is a fucking great idea. The last thing anyone would ever want to do is be reasonable in defeat or victory.
strike through16 years agoonce the current economic and financial crises have been resolved
Tightrope-walking time. The regime wants to take credit for the recovery, but not too much credit, or some pesky right-wing teabagging fascist might inconveniently ask why they don't take back the remainder of the $800 billion stimulus, thus reducing the current deficit by about $750 billion instantly. But no, the regime replies, we've just begun to emerge from The Great Recession! We must spend every penny of the stimulus, even if it takes us seven years!
It's the 'spaghetti on the wall' approach...typing well-thought gibberish that makes less sense having read it. A poor attempt at lowest level humor...it's why I post as an unpaid non-professional
"$33 billion expansion of the State Child Health Insurance Program"
next thing you know these darn kids will want to be educated too
Griff, you gotta tighten up your posts if you want to make a living at it.
Hard to blame anyone but ourselves for this mess. Well, at least the majority of the American public who thinks that voting for politicians who cannot balance a budget or constrain spending to a rate of inflation is how a country should operate.
Since everyone with half a brain knows that we'll come out of the recession without the government really having had anything to do with it (as always), why do we all (meaning America in general, and especially the media) sit around pretending otherwise?
This level of spending will mess us up. Acting like we can just increase it and increase it without any consequences is insane. If taxes are raised to try to deal with it, we'll promptly switch parties, so that option isn't really on the table, is it?
The passengers, having finally removed the drunken, babbling pilot from the controls, were dismayed to discover that his successor, to whom they had entrusted their lives and hopes, had barricaded himself in the cockpit with two stewardesses and the drink cart, and, having wedged the yoke in position with his shoe, had pushed the throttles to full power.
The plane hurtled earthward.
X, duly noted. Or as Ty Webb instructed a young Dan noonan..."danny, see your future, be your future"
don't worry. Health care reform will help bring our spending under control as we start to lower the cost of health care....and once a good carbon tax is implemented we will have tens of millions of new green jobs. We just have to work through the problems causd by free-market fundamentalism and then we will be prosperous again.
As for china funding our debt, they have little choice beause there is a still a huge savings glut. Besides they really need us to buy their goods or else they would have a revolution. There is no other possible way for them to sell enough goods without the american consumers.
Did the Chinese laugh?
Not out loud. They're too polite.
The Chinese right now are busy getting rid of their dollars, buying natural resources around the world. They are also shortening up their Treasuries. Anyone who thinks we have the Chinese "trapped" in the dollar is a damn fool. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Geithner. And your buddy, Bernanke.
"Since everyone with half a brain knows that we'll come out of the recession without the government really having had anything to do with it (as always), why do we all (meaning America in general, and especially the media) sit around pretending otherwise?"
Most of the media doesn't have half a brain. Ezra Klein is the typical media. He is someone who went to high end colleges where he was indoctrinated by leftist professors. And then he went immediately out into the world and started pontificating. Most media members are not economists and have little or know working knowledge of economics beyond a few leftist fairy tails and conventional wisdom that they were fed in college. Since college, they have only known other people who think exactly the same way, which did nothing but reinforce their ignorance. Worse still, they don't even understand that they are ignorance. They think anyone who doesn't think exactly like them is a nut or a fundie or a hillbilly.
My first thought was that the Chinese should be hedging their bets by pouring, say, $100 million into the Libertarian Party's campaign to elect 218 congressmen in 2010. LOL
strike through16 years agoR C Dean | August 13, 2009, 10:38am | #
"Did the Chinese laugh?"
Not out loud. They're too polite.
You're confusing them with the Japanese, RC. I've seen those Chinese propaganda posters. They're a nation of supermen! Supermen who will bugger you if you're late with a payment!
The Chinese right now are busy getting rid of their dollars, buying natural resources around the world.
The Chinese are going to do more for Africa in the coming years than decades of western empathy and aid Welfare-for-Dictators.
China's not hooked on the dollar, but it is hooked on America's economy. In fact, China's up to ten pipes of American consumption a day. Gonna crash big if the U.S. doesn't continue to pull out of the recession.
China's not hooked on the dollar, but it is hooked on America's economy.
I wouldn't be too sure, PL. The EU is their biggest trading partner. The US accounts for around 12 - 13% of China's foreign trade.
We'll still respect them in the morning too.
J sub D,
When liberals ask "why does the world hate us", I now have answer; because we fucked them out of ten trillion dollars. At what point do we become a failed state and end up a ward of the World Bank?
From Gabe: As for china funding our debt, they have little choice beause there is a still a huge savings glut. Besides they really need us to buy their goods or else they would have a revolution. There is no other possible way for them to sell enough goods without the american consumers.
Why can't China grow its own middle class to generate demand for its products? Or, cross sell with India? I realize that China's a dictatorship and that dictators traditionally hate growing an internal merchant/consumer class (for often very good reasons), but in a country with a billion people, they can't generate enough internal demand to meet some of the need?
Same thing for India, except that its problems are due to being a basket-case rather than a dictatorship. Two billion people, with more and more excess (coal-fired) energy, better and better educations, and merchant cultures, can't generate enough demand to compete with our 300 million consumers?
What scares me is not so much the debt load, as the debt load coupled with a spike in energy prices. Think we could easily handle it if oil went back above $140/bb?
R C Dean,
Europe's smoking in the America den, too.
Minor thread jack for the "shocking" news of the day:
"A Commerce Department report on Thursday showed total retail sales edged down 0.1 percent after increasing 0.8 percent in June, compared with market forecasts for a 0.7 percent gain.
Analysts had expected a boost in retail sales from the government's "cash for clunkers" program...
'Consumers have cut spending every month. The big surprise is that we thought "cash-for-clunkers" was going to add to GDP but instead it took away spending elsewhere,' said Christopher Low, chief economist, at FTN Financial in New York."
Wow! Who would've thought?
Wow! Who would've thought?
Anyone who didn't drink the progressive kool-aid?
'Consumers have cut spending every month. The big surprise is that we thought "cash-for-clunkers" was going to add to GDP but instead it took away spending elsewhere,' said Christopher Low, chief economist, at FTN Financial in New York."
How much of a fucking retard do you have to be not to expect people to pay for a car with money they would have used for something else?
Did this turdnugget eat paint chips as a kid?
It would be great to be able to see if Libertopia erupted there or if they fell into the second Great Depression.
Why cant it be both?
Tried to reassure China....
I'm sure the Chinese were impressed as Hell. RC Dean is right. The Chinese, not being stupid, are slowly lowering exposure. Sure, U.S. consumer are nice and all, but not if you're getting paid in worthless money. The debt problem is going to escalate until no other economy on the planet can support the lack of fiscal discipline in the U.S.... and then it's, "Hello, Argentina." The U.S. government will just let hyperinflation screw every U.S. debt holder, foreign and domestic.
China, man, what happened to you? You used to be cool!
Yeah, so we're completely fucked.
Although you ought to note that France and Germany didn't have big economic "stimulus packages," though they did have their version of C4C. Not that our stimulus package matters, since it hasn't been spent yet.
"someone tell Rove that his side lost...it's a huge disappointment that WSJ gives him any print...but not a total surprise. I'll skip anything that Texas troll has to say"
That is right. And when his side wins again, they can tell your side to fuck off and will stomp all over you just like you stomp all over them. That is a fucking great idea. The last thing anyone would ever want to do is be reasonable in defeat or victory.
Karl Rove's side was previously my side as well...until my brain began to function more properly & recognize the manipulation. Which is largely why I am here & off the WSJ boards
End the fucking wars...
I just want to say commenters here continually impress me. It was not reported here (or anywhere readily accessible) that China has been on an intense Africa and South Asia buying spree for a while, but everyone here seemed to already know about it.
Now if only we could get people outside of the few dozen who comment here to educate themselves.
For the record, my post was parody. I find it hard to believe that some people really think China is that dependent on us to "consume" as if we were really doign the china peasants a favor by buying their wal mart stuff and then giving them mortgage back securities and 30 year bonds that we have no intention of paying.
Yes, if you read the right websites you have been reading about china's investments in natural resource rich countries for the last several years. This trend was accelerated once the US congress fought off Chinas attempt to buy Unocal back in 2005. They really started to realize that the US wasn't planning on letting China protect itself. They are positioning their portfolio to do quite well when they finally decide to pull the rug out from under our currency or at least be ready to execute the threat if our UK/US political establishment tries to strong arm them.