Does Tom Tancredo Count as an "Under-Represented Group"?

Former Republican congressman Tom Tancredo recently came to speak at the University of North Carolina about brown people taking our money illegal immigrants and in-state tuition benefits. Students engaged in an act of destructive free expression to shut him up. Now the same students demand that UNC adopt a policy that…limits free expression.

Raleigh's News & Observer covered the original protest. (Check the article for super-ironic yammering about "the right of the people to assemble and collectively speak.") After a few students disrupted Tancredo's speech and broke a window, a couple hundred protesters gathered outside the building where the speech was being held:

"We shut him down; no racists in our town," they shouted. "Yes, racists, we will fight, we know where you sleep at night!"

In the MyNC article linked above, Haley Koch, a student who was arrested for her involvement in the dust-up, rocks the cognitive dissonance like it's going out of style:

"[College is] a place where people should feel safe to be themselves and under-represented groups shouldn't feel that they have to be afraid when they walk around campus."

Comments

[Kyle Jordan]

“rocks the cognitive dissonance like it’s going out of style”

I’m blatantly stealing this line because it rocks.

[P Brooks]

under-represented groups shouldn’t feel that they have to be afraid when they walk around campus

As a blathering ignoramus, she is not a member of an underrepresented group. She has nought to fear.

[Xeones]

Free speech for some, miniature American flags for others!

[John]

College kids have always been predominantly fascist and or authoritarian assholes. Nazism was huge at German Universities in the 1930s. I don’t know what you do with assholes like Haley Koch. Honestly, the only thing him and his ilk understand is a good beatdown. But when you do that you become just as bad as he is. But if you don’t meet force with force, shitheads like him run rough shod over everyone.

One thing we can do though is expell any college student who shouts down a lawful speaker. Kick every little dickhead left or right who tries to disrupt a lawful speech out of school for good. That would be a start.

[Bean Counter]

So “We know where you sleep at night” is only a threat to you when you are immobile Thus underrepresented groups, such as conservatives, don’t have to be afraid when they walk around at night. Thank god for that!

[matt]

With a last name like that, she might be a self-proclaimed libertarian….

Not that it makes a difference.

[J sub D]

Free speech for me but not for thee.

What a bunch of stupid assholes.

[John]

So “We know where you sleep at night”

I would love to see someone come out and say “I own a .45 and am a good shot, so you better make yours count”. These assholes would be screaming “hate crime”!!

[Nacim]

Is this bad form? Here’s our brave protagonist on facebook: http://tinyurl.com/knns3y

[bloodstar]

Except, it was a rifle, not a .45, and the guy killed a guard.

[Aresen]

Meh.

College students are egocentric jerks.

News at 11.

[alan]

I’m as pro-immigration as it gets, but Tancredo was on the common sense side of the argument in the matter that was being discussed and this hate group blasted down.

Can any of them give a good reason why a kid from Jersey should pay more for a college education than the kid of an illegal immigrant?* The rate for the out of staters is adjusted to in state after the first year if the student has paid in state taxes, at least that was the policy when I went to school there, but even so, it is a stupid and decadent policy to give non citizens favorable treatment over citizens.

* the term ‘illegal immigrant’ is not one of my favorites, but ‘undocumented migrant’ is so go suck my balls euphemistic, I care for it even less.

[R C Dean]

Can any of them give a good reason why a kid from Jersey should pay more for a college education than the kid of an illegal immigrant?*

Because they are privileged white people.

Plus, the “kid from New Jersey” isn’t shelling out a fucking nickel, too much of the time. Their parents are.

[bloodstar]

All Snarkiness aside, Having been attacked and beaten and harrassed for not being American enough (Ironic note, I was born right by Washington DC). I’ve seen repeatedly the effects of speech demeaning and degrading a group or class of people to be less of a person than another group. By itself that speech isn’t inciting to violence, but I still think that bigoted, intolerant, and demeaning speech does help predispose others into disrespect, disdain, and violence against the people being demeaned.

Mind you, I think the best solution is education and by being better than the people who are too busy being hateful. but I also wonder how much good it really does when they don’t believe you can do anything no matter what you accomplish.

So in the end, knowing what I should do doesn’t change my desire to tell people like Tancrado, Michael Savage, and the like to STFU and punch them in the mouth a few times.

Sigh.

[libertymike]

How many speeches, symposiums and the like have Savage and Tancredo disrupted, by using coercion no less?

[R C Dean]

So in the end, knowing what I should do doesn’t change my desire to tell people like Tancrado, Michael Savage, and the like to STFU and punch them in the mouth a few times.

Restraining your desire to do violence is the mark of a civilized man.

[Gimlet]

“We shut him down”

Isn’t that what the Red Chinese did to Tank Man?

[Dee]

College kids are by and large some of the biggest most confused people walking the streets. They think they know something because they are in college and being fed lines of shit by their all knowing Profs that never did anything other than teach.

Between the NEA and College Tenured Professors it is a wonder they turn out anyone that can actually make common sense deductions from events on their own. This must be where MSM picks up the ball to keep telling them what they should be thinking after college and primary school indoctrination has ended.

It is all part of the Tolerance program where they tolerate you so long as you agree with them lock step. But aren’t so tolerant of your views if they happen to differ. There is a cure for this sickness but it involves jail time.

[Gimlet]

“How many speeches, symposiums and the like have Savage and Tancredo disrupted, by using coercion no less?”

And the answer is???

[..]

I know the point here is about unintended irony and self-righteous college brats, but isn’t this the same crowd who decries campus “protest zones”? The only other alternative would be silent (if not respectful) protests. But telling a college kid to shut up is like telling a lion to go vegan.

[scape]

UNC-CH geography professor Alpha Cravey joined protesters in chanting the names of Marco Polo and Christopher Columbus.

I haven’t updated my political correctness detector in a while. Why’s Marco Polo in the multicultural shithouse?

[tarran]

I haven’t updated my political correctness detector in a while. Why’s Marco Polo in the multicultural shithouse?

Duh! He stole the recipe for pasta from the Chinese. Italian cooking is really Chinese cooking – calling it Italian betrays an colonialist mindset.

Or something…

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

Why’s Marco Polo in the multicultural shithouse?

He’s a dead white guy who got famous off the existence of non-white people. Does there really have to be anything else?

Not that I actually know…I have dismissed all forms of ‘Yo Studies[1] from my mind. I simply haven’t the time or energy to search through those disciplines in search of what wheat is there.

[1] A buddy’s term, but I like it.

[Gimlet]

“Duh! He stole the recipe for pasta from the Chinese. Italian cooking is really Chinese cooking – calling it Italian betrays an colonialist mindset.”

Last weekend, I learned on Good Eats (Pasta II), that is a myth. Pasta in Italy pre-dates Marco Polo by at least a couple of centuries.

But the story that Marco Polo started Ralph Lauren is true.

[Karl]

“Restraining your desire to do violence is the mark of a civilized man.” – RCD

One of my favorite quotes of all time:
“To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated.”

Unfortunately I don’t know its origin…
-Karl

[Not a Libertarian but You Migh]

“scape | June 11, 2009, 1:03pm | #

UNC-CH geography professor Alpha Cravey joined protesters in chanting the names of Marco Polo and Christopher Columbus.

I haven’t updated my political correctness detector in a while. Why’s Marco Polo in the multicultural shithouse?”

Are we certain they weren’t protesting from a kid’s pool?

MARCO polo MARCO polo

[MikeP]

I’m as pro-immigration as it gets…

I’m betting you’re not.

Can any of them give a good reason why a kid from Jersey should pay more for a college education than the kid of an illegal immigrant?

Because the illegal immigrant is a resident of North Carolina, while the New Jerseyite is not. In state tuition is based on residence, as you yourself note when you point out that the NJ kid can get it if he calls NC home for a year.

Citizenship simply has nothing at all to do with residence-based tuition. Nor should it.

[Kyle Jordan]

“But telling a college kid to shut up is like telling a lion to go vegan.”

“That’s not true! We taught this lion to eat tofu!

:shot of emaciated lion coughing and near death:”

And just for shits and giggles…

“You can OWN property, man.”

” I can! But that’s because I’m not a penniless hippie!”

[Kyle Jordan]

*can’t instead of can in my last post.

[Tulpa]

So “We know where you sleep at night”

I would love to see someone come out and say “I own a .45 and am a good shot, so you better make yours count”. These assholes would be screaming “hate crime”!!

Good. I’d prefer “But do you know what I keep on my nightstand?” Terser and less blatantly threatening.

College kids are by and large some of the biggest most confused people walking the streets.

Please don’t tar math, science, and engineering majors with the same brush as the collegiate masses.

[24AheadDotCom]

Good to see Reason slightly coming out for free speech, even against those who would cost certain very special organizations money. Good job!

As for Mike P, he can go in a corner and argue with himself for the next year, while the rest of us note that he’s turning his back on his own (presumably) fellow citizens. Whatever weak arguments he wants to make, he has no problem with taking something very valuable (a college education) from a U.S. citizen in order to give it to a foreign citizen who’s here illegally. In a just world, U.S. citizens would be able to return the favor by turning their back on people like MikeP. I’m sure there are other countries he could be a citizen of; whether they’d want to take someone who’d turn his back on them is another matter.

P.S. In case anyone wants to do something about this issue, go to a public appearance by a politician who supports the DREAM Act and ask them the question at the link. Then, upload their response to Youtube. By doing something so simple, you’ll have more of an impact than Reason has ever and will ever have.

P.P.S. In case anyone replies to this, their responses will almost assuredly be ad homs delivered through sockpuppets, thereby conceding my points and showing the cowardly, childish, anti-intellectual nature of libertarians.

[Tulpa]

Because the illegal immigrant is a resident of North Carolina, while the New Jerseyite is not. In state tuition is based on residence, as you yourself note when you point out that the NJ kid can get it if he calls NC home for a year.

The NJ kid (or his parents) has to file an income tax return and pay income tax in NC for a year, which I’m pretty sure illegal aliens are not doing (pay deductions don’t count — you have to file).

My question is, why are illegal aliens who “declare residency” in a state so as to get tuition paid for not being rounded up and deported? ICE knows where they live (assuming they’re not lying about their address) and knows they don’t belong here.

[proud libitard]

I’m glad I went to NC State because they would NEVER clamp down or punish free speech! Oh, wait…

[Tulpa]

I’m as pro-immigration as it gets…

I’m betting you’re not.

I get it — if you oppose illegal immigration and/or giving special benefits to illegal immigrants, you are likely to be a nativist even if you claim otherwise.

People like you are why Lonewacko is the way he is. Well, you and that trenchcoated pervert in the park.

[Michael Ejercito]

Between the NEA and College Tenured Professors it is a wonder they turn out anyone that can actually make common sense deductions from events on their own. This must be where MSM picks up the ball to keep telling them what they should be thinking after college and primary school indoctrination has ended.

How are college degrees even valuable?

On another blog there was a comment where someone mentioned that a student at UCLA claimed that it was too bad that there are no more Native Americans. Admissions standards have clearly dropped since my sister went there eleven years ago.

[MikeP]

I get it — if you oppose illegal immigration and/or giving special benefits to illegal immigrants, you are likely to be a nativist even if you claim otherwise.

No. I just think that I’m more pro-immigrant than he is, therefore he is not as pro-immigrant as it gets.

[MikeP]

I just think that I’m more pro-immigrant than he is

To be perfectly accurate, I am not specifically pro-immigrant: I am pro-free migration.

[Gimlet]

“I am pro-free migration.”

Why, pray tell, do you oppose the migration of professionals?

[MikeP]

Ha!

I couldn’t figure out how to hyphenate that. I’ll try harder next time.

[John]

That’s not true! We taught this lion to eat tofu!

:shot of emaciated lion coughing and near death:”

And just for shits and giggles…

“You can OWN property, man.”

” I can! But that’s because I’m not a penniless hippie!”

There actually are people out there who make their dogs go vegan. I didn’t believe it at first. I thought it was an urban myth. But then I moved to Washington and met two of them. The dog was pretty damned skinny. I wanted to punch them.

[Xeones]

Shut the fuck up, LoneWacko, you fuck.

[bigbigslacker]

Not naming names, but when I read a wild claim here and notice the claimee’s handle links to their blog…yeah, the bullshit meter pretty much pegs.

[alan]

Citizenship simply has nothing at all to do with residence-based tuition. Nor should it.

Public institutions are in the employ of the citizens that they serve. Whether the government taxes the non citizen does not further his status any more than, say, my previous residential stay in Mexico City would make me a rightful net beneficiary of the public services of Mexico.

It is almost too elementary to be worth explaining.

You need to also explain how your support of this public assistance makes you more pro-immigration than someone else. In spite of your assumption, it is not a given.

[Aresen]

Michael Ejercito | June 11, 2009, 1:53pm | #

How are college degrees even valuable?

Bloody few, but the issue is actually credentialism. It allows lazy recruiters to avoid the hard work of finding out if the person can actually due the work.

Plus it shows a certain tolerance for bullshit that is essential in a corporate environment.

As a bonus, a few st actually learned something.

[Gimlet]

“There actually are people out there who make their dogs go vegan”

Bastards!

Yesterday, my dog had a lovely plate of Thai Basil Chicken and Pad Thai. Today, something Southern Italian. Her breed? Canine Epicurus.

[Aresen]

“A few students….”

Preview, dammit, preview.

[kevrob]

There’s a solution to the resident/non-resident tuition question; privatize all government schools.

Kevin

[alan]

In other words, do I love my neighbor any less because I think she should pay for her student loans and not me through taxation?

Mind you, the preferable world would be an anarco-capitalist one of free migration, but that is not what we have. So long as there is a government there are also restraints which having citizens responsible for keeping it from going to hell instead of subjects benefiting from a largess of bread and circuses causing it to go to hell.

[alan]

kevrob | June 11, 2009, 2:43pm | #
There’s a solution to the resident/non-resident tuition question; privatize all government schools.

Kevin

Agreed.

I recognize that this is merely mucking about the broader issue. The supporters of this only want to expand the welfare state even further than it is permitted at this time, hence my opposition.

[alan]

going to hell instead of subjects benefiting from a largess

Crap, I cut off the last phrase which would have made this a complete sentence, just change this to:

So long as there is a government there are also restraints which having citizens responsible for keeping it from going to hell is preferable to subjects benefiting from a largess of bread and circuses causing it to go to hell.

[proud libitard]

I vote for carpet bombing Chapel Hill and if there’s some collateral damage in Derm, I’d be ok with that.

It doesn’t necessarily solve anything but it might make me smile a little!

[Matt]

“Please don’t tar math, science, and engineering majors with the same brush as the collegiate masses.”

Oh really? I go to a school with a pretty damn good engineering program and almost none of them have any clue about ANYTHING besides what they study. A lot of them are “I’M THE WORKING MAN! HELL, YEAH AMERICA!” populists who’s parents are paying for them to go to school.

Not that the Arts kids at school aren’t bleeding heart idiots, but I’m sick of hearing Engineering/Science people claiming to be elite just because they’re…not Arts students. Just because you study something different than me doesn’t mean you’re somehow smarter than me – your education is what you make of it.

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

I’m sick of hearing Engineering/Science people claiming to be elite just because they’re…not Arts students. Just because you study something different than me doesn’t mean you’re somehow smarter than me

< snark > Of course we’re smarter. < / snark >

Just every bit as foolish and naive. Sometimes more so.

[MikeP]

You need to also explain how your support of this public assistance makes you more pro-immigration than someone else.

Fair enough. If your opposition to in-residence tuition for illegal residents is based on not allowing public assistance to be a magnet for illegal immigration, I can buy that.

But without evidence to the contrary I have to assume that it is not a magnet — that these students and their parents are longtime residents and the kids just want to go to college. In that case I see no valid argument for denying them in-state tuition simply because they are illegal immigrants.

But, as you note, the citizens of North Carolina do indeed have the final say. There certainly is no right to an education for anyone — unlike say, the rights to travel, reside, and labor, which apply regardless of one’s citizenship.

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

BTW– I know that reality is messier and more complicated than that, and I have friends whose intelligence I respect who can’t do calculus, and all that.

But I couldn’t resist.

[proud libitard]

Like I said, as a resident of NC, carpet bomb Chapel Hill!

Oh, and Science and Math grads are better so stick it! 😉

[Brett Stevens]

Why do we need two Mexicos?

[EJ]

“Please don’t tar math, science, and engineering majors with the same brush as the collegiate masses.”

so true… i actually had to work my ass off in college while everyone else was getting wasted and screwing around. Now those same humanities majors bitch that its unfair that they’re working at starbucks so i should pay for their healthcare.

[botw]

“BTW– I know that reality is messier and more complicated than that, and I have friends whose intelligence I respect who can’t do calculus, and all that.”

Does having been able to do calculus previously count? My computer now does all my math. God help me when my kids hit high school. I’m going to have to relearn all that stuff.

On the substantive points, it seems to be entirely fair to debate whether we should subsidize those who violate our laws to come to this country. I have a family full of legal immigrants and they have little sympathy for those who skipped the pain in the ass, legal path to citizenship (or residency for that matter). Wherever you stand on that, I concur that “rocks the cognitive dissonance like it’s going out of style” is fabulous.

[MikeP]

On the substantive points, it seems to be entirely fair to debate whether we should subsidize those who violate our laws to come to this country.

Why isn’t it…

On the substantive points, it seems to be entirely fair to debate whether we should subsidize those who violate our laws to come to this country.

Or even better…

On the substantive points, it seems to be entirely fair to debate whether we should subsidize those who violate our laws to come to this country.

[Poustman]

Dee said: “It is all part of the Tolerance program where they tolerate you so long as you agree with them lock step. But aren’t so tolerant of your views if they happen to differ.”

Or of you, if your views happen to differ.

(I intend no advocacy of Tancredo or his position(s)– which I know nothing of except a vague sense that he is bad news somehow.)

[marie]

Hi,

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http://www.scienz.info