Reason Morning Links: Fat Fliers Face Added Fees, Mexico's Queenpins, Nobody Expects (Much From) the Spanish Inquisition

• Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano defends the DHS report on right-wing extremism.

• Justice Department probe finds that NSA illegally spied on Americans.

• Spanish court will likely drop its investigation of six former Bush officials.

• United to start charging obese passengers for two seats.

• The "queenpins" of Mexico's drug cartels.

• Encouraging words from Obama's new "border czar"—embraces posse comitatus, says Mexican "spillover violence" is exaggerated, vows no military troops on the border.

• Odd battle of the week: clothier American Apparel vs. Woody Allen's sex life.

Comments

[John]

"The agency also tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official told the Times.

The NSA believed that the congressman, whose identity was not revealed, was in contact with an extremist who had possible ties to terror and was already under surveillance. The NSA then tried to eavesdrop on the congressman's conversations, the Times said."

What does "recent months" mean? Did this happen under BO or Bush? Maybe they had good reason to wiretap the guy. But if they did, why didn't they get a warrent? I am a lot more conservative about these issues than anyone on here. But, listening in on members of Congress is getting awfully close to the bad old days of J. Edgar and RFK.

[MNG]

Woody Allen is the greatest living American director imo.

But even were he not American Apparel is plainly using his likeness without his consent for a commercial purpose and should have to stop it and/or compensate him for such use.

Their use of a comical image from Annie Hall is not de-valued because of Allen's tragically comic sex and family life (or as Lonewhacko could for once rightly say SexAndFamilyLife).

[Warty]

Fat people are not human. That's all.

[Chief Brody]

We're going to need a bigger plane.

[Blue]

Napolitano said in the statement. "We take seriously our responsibility to protect the civil rights and liberties of the American people..."

Gold, Janet. Comedy gold.

[Abdul]

American Apparel is apparently run by crazy people and has managed to hire an equally crazy law firm to defend them.

[Conhugeco]

As a former fattie, that decision is grating, but reading the article, it applies to people needing more than one seatbelt extender. That is a huge person

[Pro Libertate]

Wrong thinking will be punished. Right thinking will be as quickly rewarded.

[John]

"Napolitano said in the statement. "We take seriously our responsibility to protect the civil rights and liberties of the American people..."

Gold, Janet. Comedy gold."

DHS is not NSA. They are not listening to phone calls or reading your e-mails. They are just the ones that tell the cops to look out for you if you happen to be a veteran, believe in states rights or once voted Republican.

[Pro Libertate]

Or comment at Hit & Run.

Radicals! I'm watching you!

[Warty]

Why can't DHS go after fatties? They're way more dangerous than terrorists.

[Jeff P]

I love Woody Allen but I gotta side with American on this. They admit lack of concent, but it's the claim of slander they are defending against. If Woody didn't sue any of the media outlets and gossip engines that brow beat him with pedophilia charges for over a year, he shouldn't get the chance to say his rep is sullied by having a screen cap co-opted.

We need more of this up front honesty in this culture, not just on libertarian chat rooms.

[Pro Libertate]

Jeff P,

I imagine he has a clear right of publicity claim, but the defamation/tarnishment argument probably won't work. They're going to settle this, anyway, I'm sure.

I'm a fan of a lot of his films, and he was a good stand-up comedian back in the day. Of course, it's been a while since he made anything really good. Here's a great scene from Annie Hall, with a young Christoper Walken.

[SugarFree]

I bought the issue of Jane Magazine in question. Yes, Dov masturbated in front of reporter Claudine Ko. And he did other stuff. Here are the relevant passages, since Jane Magazine is not available on-line (nor has the article been reproduced on the American Apparel Press page):

Ko goes out with Charney and an unamed female employee:

I asked him how he relaxed. Oral sex he says, settling into a chair behind a cloud of smoke. "I love it ? I am a bit of a dirty guy, but people like that right now."

Explaining exactly how the rest of the night unraveled is somewhat difficult. Let's just say, the female employee helped him "put on a show" for me. I watched, trying to be objective, detached - sorta like a ? war reporter?

Ko goes to Charney's pad late one evening for an interview session:

Soon enough he loosens his Pierre Cardin belt.
"Are you going to do it again?" I ask.
"Can I?" he says adjusting himself in his chair.
And thus begins another compulsive episode of what Dov likes to call "self-pleasure," during which we casually carry on our interview, discussing things like business models, hiring practices and the stupidity of focus groups.
"Masturbation in front of women is underrated," Dov explains to me later over the phone. "It's much easier on the woman. She gets to watch, it's a sensual experience that doesn't involve a man violating a woman, yet once the man has his release, it's over and you can talk to the guy."

Ko claims that in the month she spent with Charney, she watched him pleasure himself eight or so times. She ends the article by describing how she leaves Charney in New York, interview completed, and hails a cab. "Then as I step into the depths of the backseat, I realize I don't want this trip to end just yet."

Link

[Telly]

I feel bad for people that are overweight, whatever the reason may be. But I've flown Atlanta to LA in the outside seat of a three seat row next two very large people before. I had to lean out in the aisle the whole trip because the man's arms came way over across my armrest as his body was so big that his arms wouldn't lie flat beside him.

I got tired of getting hit by his elbows and also by every person and their duffle bag purse as they walked by. If big people need two seats, then yes they should be charged and made to purchase two seats instead of making the rest of us lose part of our seat.

[short, fat bastard]

On the one hand, fuck United.

On the other hand, maybe this news can be combined with the American's with Disabilities Act so I can force my employer to buy me first class tickets.

[High Every Body]

United to start charging obese passengers for two seats.

Aren't they the third or fourth US airline to do this?

[Naga Sadow]

I thought United rocked when I went to Denver a few weeks back. As for the policy . . . Teh AWESome! I got sandwiched between two fat people and sure enoug the one on the aisle seat kept leaning her fatty body almost on me trying to see out the window during most of the trip. For what? We're five miles up! Everything looks the same! Would you like my seat, ma'am? No, she likes to have room! Plus she kept tilting her head occasionally while I was watching Fight Club on my iTouch trying to watch my movie.

[/end rant]

[High Every Body]

Naga,

You almost got a hat trick! Sexism, weightism . . . If I switch to my Leftoid thinking cap I might be able to find another. SF, can you assist?

[Jeff P]

Next they'll try charging more for porn featuring fat chicks. It ain't right, man!

[Naga Sadow]

HEB,

You're just shilling for Big Fatty. Idealogue!

[hmm]

At some point you have to wonder if they are trying to piss people off with retarded reports, civil liberty violations, and completely absurd comments like we Janet's. WTF

Don't focus on the first half of the previously quoted sentence. The later half is the important part "nor will we ever -- monitor ideology or political beliefs." By their very nature extremist groups are based on ideology and political beliefs so you are monitoring both by monitoring the groups and I don't think anyone believes for one second that ideology is not a factor. For F#@k'$ sake if you are going to lie at least make it a plausible lie.

[hmm]

At some point you have to wonder if they are trying to piss people off with retarded reports, civil liberty violations, and completely absurd comments like we Janet's. WTF

Don't focus on the first half of the previously quoted sentence. The later half is the important part "nor will we ever -- monitor ideology or political beliefs." By their very nature extremist groups are based on ideology and political beliefs so you are monitoring both by monitoring the groups and I don't think anyone believes for one second that ideology is not a factor. For F#@k'$ sake if you are going to lie at least make it a plausible lie.

[High Every Body]

Naga,

LOL, there you go, shillism!

[hmm]

At 6'4" and 220ish flying is an absolute pain in my ass. I married a midget for a reason!

[Naga Sadow]

HEB,

I was raised deep woods baptist but can I throw in Papist agent too?

[SugarFree]

iPodism: Flaunting consumer electronics in front of of the less fortunate. Racism: Watching Fight Club (we all know what that means.) Lookism: The poor woman can look at whatever she wants.

And the Sizeism of this statement is outrageous: I got sandwiched between two fat people

[MR]

What does it mean 'Spanish court will likely drop' the investigation? Did Radley read the article he links to? It says prosecutors opposed the Pinochet case (and another one) as well, which didn't stop the judge from going on back then. The very same judge, let me add.

(btw, as far as I know, the Spaniards told everybody that they will stop the investigation as soon as Americans start one - but whether _that_ is likely, not me to say...)

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

I'm not sure about the last one. I think you would have been on more level ground by assuming I was using a sexual connotation to the phrase. Just my two cents, though.

[John]

Suger Free,

Who is that article talking about? Who the hell is Dov?

[SugarFree]

John,

Dov Charney owns American Apparel. He's a deeply weird dude.

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

Or at least liberated from cultural taboos and norms.

[High Every Body]

SugarFree with the assist!

If we were a hockey team we would be scoring in double digits.

[John]

SugarFree,

Yeah he is a deeply wierd dude. Wierder than Woody.

[brotherben]

Naga, so what you're really saying is that your discomfort was simply from sitting for a length of time with a boner?

[kcjerith]

duede, how big do you have to be to take up more than one seat. I am a big guy (5'9, 300+) and I have always been able to fit in one seat without bother anyone else. A person must be truly massive to take up another seat, not sure I blame the airline for this.
I am just saying. dam.

[Warty]

Or at least liberated from cultural taboos and norms.

That's a pretty good way to say "weird" as pretentiously as possible.

[Naga Sadow]

Warty,

I bequeath the phrase to you. You can have the word, bequeath, as well. No charge, sir!

I think I misused the word anyway.

[Naga Sadow]

brotherben,

From watching "Fight Club"? That seems wrong on many levels to me.

[R C Dean]

United to start charging obese passengers for two seats.

If they take up two seats, why shouldn't they have to pay for it?

I am a big guy (5'9, 300+) and I have always been able to fit in one seat without bother anyone else.

In first class, sure. In coach, I wouldn't bet on it.

[SugarFree]

Naga,

I think he's calling you a tubby humper.

If that's the case, I retract my offer to send you those photos. Sicko.

[Solana]

Obese people should definitely have to pay for two seats, and I'll more likely fly with the airline that keeps me comfortable. I feel bad for fat people, I do. It's very sad what they go through... but have you ever flown for six hours with half a seat? It sucks balls. I paid for an entire seat, and that's what I want.

This is the free market at work!

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

I can't help it that I find you to be one fiiinnnnnnnnnneeeeeeee specimmmmmmmmmmine. Don't be such a prud!

[Pro Libertate]

Of course, the seats don't exactly accommodate people who are in shape. I'm 6'2, 200 pounds, and I am distinctly uncomfortable in a coach seat. Doesn't help when I'm seated next to someone larger, of course, but the airlines decided to make the planes into cattle cars. I'm surprised that haven't decided to stack customers like wood already.

[brotherben]

I thought obesity was being covered under ADA now.

I'm 6'4" and 315lbs and I don't fit coach. people next to me generally hate me and I am very aware of other people's space.

[Xeones]

I'm surprised that haven't decided to stack customers like wood already.

Don't give them ideas!

[brotherben]

Naga, SugarFree is correct. I was callin you a plumper pumper.

[Pro Libertate]

As I understand it, the ADA hasn't been interpreted to require airlines to give away seats. Not yet. I think Canada does require such accommodations, however.

[dhex]

at 6'4", i've never sat in a plane where i could really put my feet down. and of course on international flights the mofo in front of me will lean back as far as he can.

"stewardess, no more purple drank for the gentleman in front of me, please."

[Warty]

The shame never goes away, does it, Naga? No matter how hard you scrub, the fatty's stink just stays on you.

[brotherben]

If obesity is covered by ADA I would expect lawsuits over this. I liken it to a private business charging for use of the wheelchair ramp.

[phalkor]

fat person next to me on an airplane is definately up there in the most obnoxious situations stratosphere. Short, fat women may be the worst because while their bone structure is small and fits easily their fat spills under the armrest and gives me the heebie-jeebies.

I don't mean to sound nasty, but it comes out that way no matter. There's not really such a thing as "size discrimination" that can be compared to sexism or racism. I think there are "fat acceptance" groups that fight such measures as united's. Still, it's hard to argue when it is an issue of safety. but for movie theater seats, they sometimes win, amusement park rides, not so much.

Here's my question, have the general dimensions of public seating changed over the past century? Are people in general larger, not just fatter, but taller also?

I think so; anecdotally I rarely see any of my peers who are shorter than their 45-60 year old parents. Yomp Yomp; I've got cmu carnival on the brain. Wanna see a sport where size is crucial?

Enter CMU SWEEPSTAKES: Go ZOO!
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/buggy/Sweepstakes/Welcome.html

the drivers must generally be under 5'3" and under 115lbs. it's the only thing that ever made me wish I had dwarfism.

[Warty]

phalkor, no offense, but I hope your school is Kim Jong Il's first target. Reject my application for the Robotics Institute, will you. Fuckfaces.

[High Every Body]

Obese people should definitely have to pay for two seats

Anybody needing two seats should pay for two seats, at least if I were running a transportation system they would be. Need an extra seat for your guitar? Pay for it. Need one seat per butt cheek? Pay for them too.

Naga,

What is a prud?

[short, fat bastard]

If obesity is covered by ADA I would expect lawsuits over this. I liken it to a private business charging for use of the wheelchair ramp.

There have already been lawsuits from fat people booted off aircraft.

When the dust settles, I expect airlines will be required to install a minimum number of "fat seats" the same way businesses are required to have handicap parking.

The airlines will probably be prohibited from charging extra for the fat seats and may be prohibited from selling them to skinny people if there are no fat patrons on a given flight.

Then sky marshalls will be handed a secondary duty to enforce the rules on the use of fat seats and will issue tickets for misuse of the resource. The feds will find a way to make this a revenue stream (think large fines for parking in handicap spots without the appropirate hang=tag or license plate).

[Naga Sadow]

Warty,

You're projecting. Stop it.

Brotherben,

Fat, unemployed, statist, and now libelous? You just can't stop yourself from your downward spiral can you? 😉

HEB,

Prud. Square. Jive ass turkey. They all mean the same thing.

[phalkor]

Reject my application for the Robotics Institute, will you.

consider it done. cmu doesn't need more egomaniacal pricks.

😉

[Warty]

Oh, so you don't mind the fatty stink, Naga? You're a stronger man than me.

[brotherben]

Naga, is it libel if it's true?

you forgot homophobic (i'm scared of milk that won't seperate)

[Naga Sadow]

Warty,

Fool! I use only one characteristic common among women when choosing who I shall bed! Craziness. I have tunnel vision in those regards.

[brotherben]

Tell the truth Naga, all you really look for is a pulse.

[Naga Sadow]

brotherben,

Buy a centrifuge, move to Iowa, and start partying it up.

[Naga Sadow]

brotherben,

Huh? What have you heard?

[Warty]

Tell the truth Naga, all you really look for is a pulse.

At least he's better than Epi.

[Naga Sadow]

Warty,

[Shaft voice]

You dammmmmmn right I am.

[/Shaft voice]

[SugarFree]

At least he's better than Epi.

What a low bar.

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

I'll take my hurdles where I can.

[brotherben]

"I don't mind if their dead, as long as they're not too cold."

[Naga Sadow]

brotherben,

"You sure got a pretty mouth"

"Squeal likea pig, boy!"

[Greunnur]

Pro Libertate | April 16, 2009, 10:33am | #
As I understand it, the ADA hasn't been interpreted to require airlines to give away seats. Not yet. I think Canada does require such accommodations, however.

You are correct. After all, obesity is a disease, and these airlines are simply punishing sick people, etc etc