KABUL, Afghanistan — The young women stepped off the bus and moved toward the protest march just beginning on the other side of the street when they were spotted by a mob of men.
"Get out of here, you whores!" the men shouted. "Get out!"…
But the march continued anyway. About 300 Afghan women, facing an angry throng three times larger than their own, walked the streets of the capital on Wednesday to demand that Parliament repeal a new law that introduces a range of Taliban-like restrictions on women, and permits, among other things, marital rape.
While conservatives are planning nationwide "Tea Parties" protesting taxes—and even same-sex marriage—same-sex couples are planning some tea parties of their own, to protest the government overcharging them. The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight married couples.
Couples around the country will be handing out fliers at post offices educating Americans about this unfairness in the tax code. A group in Boston is even throwing their tax forms into the Boston Harbor.
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I don't think I fully understand the tea party concept. Who are these people? What are they protesting? Taxes in general? Well, tough shit. Anti-gay marriage throws a wtf in my news-compiler module.
Pro-freedom from taxes but not for the gays? I must be missing something, as this whole clown show seems stupid.
According to The Economist "the gays" should pay higher taxes. They have more disposable income on average thus should pay more in taxes. Right.....right?
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax protesters.
That's only because the left doesn't have any guns. If wishing them dead could get the job done, the protesters would be history. The mean protesters don't care about teh children or social justice, and worst of all they are "probably Rethuglican". I forgot unpatriotic. That too. And they're extremists. Probably racist. Did I cover everything?
I'm sure RahmEmanuel agrees! After all, instead of a broad-based opposition to BHO, it's best that the opposition be shown to be as small and loony as possible.
Wave your John Galt signs high, all 0.08% of the last electorate of you!
I'm not seeing that with the tea party BS. I don't know about past 'parties', but this year it seems a lot of GOP handjobs have really latched on to it. So, the one of the parties of big government is pretending to want lower taxes(again). That makes everyone associated with it look stupid. Gotta pay for your wars and bullshit legislation somehow. At least the Democraps are honest about that.
I'm not convinced about the effectiveness of the tea parties. I for one will protest ridiculous overspending and a corrupt political regime that does not represent the will of the people. But because of the decentralized nature of this movement (if one can call it that), the message is getting mixed and hijacked and manipulated all over the place.
Yes, it is a minority of the population that's out there protesting. But you know what? They are protected by the constitution, and the 'majority' that voted Obama into office are fucking morons. I don't care if 99.99% of the population of this country thinks capitalism is evil and fascism is the way to go, they are WRONG.
So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all? 'Go Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and say "No you fuckwads!" ? I'm going for the latter tonight, and I personally hope there are lots more like me there.
Quit being fucking nihilists and stand up for what you believe in.
I went to a tea party protest in Carson City today. It was good times.
What I saw, 95% of the protest being about lower taxes, individual liberty and less government intrusion.
Lots of "throw them all out regardless of party" signs. I have to agree with that one.
Some of Lonewhacko's people were there. Not sure why they were there, the protest was not about Mexicans at all.
There was some 2nd A people there too, I agree with the cause, but that is not what the protest was about.
There was also a bunch of God people there, also not what the protest was about.
95% or more of the people were there for what the protest was about. Some people were there about their own agenda.
Warty - that's the thing tho - a lot of normal people are out there today. The tea party protests are attracting a lot of non-politically active, non-protesty types, people who don't usually turn out for stuff like this (because they're working, usually. Protesting is something you do on someone else's dime). Yeah, there are gonna be some whackos who use the coverage to wave their anti-gay or anti-abortion or whatever signs. Kind of like every antiwar rally featured a contingent of cretins with the Israel=Nazi signs. Only you didn't see the cretins featured prominently in the MSM coverage, and you will see every nutball in the teaparty protest featured more than prominently.
I was hoping to see some big headed puppets, tho.
I love the CNN reporter who bitched that the protest was anti-government and anti-CNN. Butch the fuck up, Barbie.
I went to the Boston teaparty on my long lunch break and foun it to be fun. There were over 1000 people there. To make gross generalizations, it seemed there were about 25% Rothbardians, 35% Infowarriors (although many were mixed)...and 40% other.
Yes I am saying that after talking with 20 people and seeing the various signs I'd estiamte there were 200 people on the Boston Commons who have read a Rothbard book.
Lots of "End the Fed signs" and "Congress is a toxic asset". Cody Willard showed up with a Fox News camera. We interrupted one of his interviews with a 10 person "End the Fed" chants.
I talked to a guy from redstate.com who was interviewing people...he will cherry pick quotes to make the protest fit whatever image they want it to, but it was still a good thing.
Nice to meet some likeminded people who work in the same neighborhood. We shared emails, already linked on facebook and we will do otehr events. Of course this will be protrayed as badly as possible on the dummy box...however the TV has never converted anybody into understanding the false left-right paradigm. Many of the people I talked to were 20 - 30 years old and they are internet only news readers.
The funniest moment for me was when 6 people were discussing different Rothbard books when a guy came up to hand out "flat tax" pamphlets. The sales pitch did not go well.
"same-sex couples are planning some tea parties of their own, to protest the government overcharging them. The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight married couples."
They have no more standing to complain about it than single people do.
po gay marriage stuff may have been present at the boston tea party and that is fine with me. However, a reporter would have had to really search to find them. I saw over 50 "Don't Tread on Me" flags(Gadsden Flag) and about 20 "End the Fed" signs...all types of other signs protesting the debts being pushed onto our children and I didn't see a single gay marriage sign in 3 hours of walking around and talking. I think there will be another similar nationwide protest day coming in a couple months and I think this is good.
Not sure that they gays are really right on this tax thing. If one person in the relationship earns almost all of the income, then filing jointly lowers your taxes compared to filing separately. But if both spouses earn about substantial amounts in their own right, then filing jointly is at best a wash, and often can result in higher taxes because some deductions and credits phase out at higher income levels. My wife and I would pay lower combined taxes if we could each file single.
Paul Begala has a particularly nasty comment linked off the front page of CNN this afternoon about how we teabaggers are just whining to get out of paying our fair share of taxes so the wounded vets can be healed and the cops and firemen can get paid. As if any more than 0.000009% of the Federal Budget went to those kinds of things. Grrrr.
It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away from taxes, I headed home.
Wah, wah, wah. The gays are always glomming on to everyone else's moment, less the topic be about something other than gays for once.
Those Afghan women deserve a Rosa Parks level of honor. I wonder where the world's feminists are in sharing outrage for the hideous treatment that muslim women receive, but I guess they're more worried about offending muslims in general since many muslims share they're disdain for America.
These protesters, like many of the androids on here don't seem to even understand what the Boston Tea Party was about.
However, Conservative minded types tend to follow their own version of history. For example: Free markets would have ended slavery, if it was allowed to run its course. I shit you not.
"So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all? 'Go Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and say "No you fuckwads!" ?"
Aw, that's cute. A quick glance of Libertarian history shows that the Libertarian community has never evolved past this question. A new generation of cranks, and yet we get the same old desperate cliches.
Here's some free advice: Maybe it's time to reevaluate the philosophy, and evolve. Of course, that's assuming that Libertarians truly want the responsibility of fucking everything up, and then having to claw their way back into the fray after the fallout. In reality, that kind of fearless attitude has never defined the movement. So, I guess it's back to the Rand novels.
Groaning from the sidelines is so much more cathartic, and you never have to be the one to blame.
"It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away from taxes, I headed home."
Your comment effectively sums up the intellectual standard that most Libertarians adhere to.
One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation.
You know what I love about conservatives? They carry this fantastic caricature of liberals in their head, that we are all tofu-sushi eating, sandal wearing folk music listening too multicultural loving America hating hippies and then they get all mad when some actual liberal they meet don't act up to that image.
You know what I love about liberals? They carry this fantastic caricature of conservatives in their head, that we're all congac sipping, white collar wearing, greedy racists and then they get all scared when some actual conservative they meet actually looks a lot like they do.
"One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation."
And since you are a fucking genius, I am sure you can provide some sort of concrete statistic demonstrating that the South is more militaristic. Maybe you can cite the United States Regional Militaristic Index.
"This is RC Dean's "successful movement." You can get up to 2% - generously - the size of the movement that didn't want to invade Iraq in early 2003."
Hey, I got an idea, let's mention one place that had a lower attendance than expected, for whatever reason, and totally ignore the hundreds of other Tea Party protests around the country. Then let's top it off with a good topping of snark to prove what a dick you still are.
Re: gays and the tax code. It's not so much about paying more or less filing single or filing jointly, although that can be a problem. But how about this? Gay people pay the same Social Security tax as straight people, but our partners -- no matter how long we have been together -- don't get any of our Social Security benefits if we die. We don't have inheritance rights from our partners, so we are not exempt from estate tax, as straight married couple are. If we receive health insurance benefits from our partner's employer, we have to pay tax on those benefits -- unlike straight couples. Our tax dollars support the U.S. military, but we do not have the right to serve in the military. And so on. How is any of this fair?
"In March 2003, there was a 50,000 person anti-war rally in Boston."
Given the various statements of those in the media this week, the above can only mean one thing. That rally was an astroturf rally organized by MSNBC and the DNC.
I hate some Jews. I like a lot of Jews. But to be honest, the vast majority of Jews I don't know.
I don't like a lot of the policies of the state of Israel, but then again that's not the same thing as the dumb thing you said.
And as far as the South and militarism, I used to live there. They love them some military down there, they just were not good at making up a winning one it seems...
I dreamed I saw Joe Boyle last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.
From San Diego up to Maine,
in every mine and mill,
Where working men defend their rights,
it's there you find Joe Boyle,
it's there you find Joe Boyle!
The crowd at the original Boston Tea Party was estimated at 7000, in a city of approximately 18,000 people.
Wait a minute... what? I thought it was like seven guys in indian costumes?
Anyways, just got back from the NYC party. It was massive. A solid handful of morons, but mostly people who just hated big government. The "USA" chants made me nervous, but it at least seemed like most people weren't that into them. The loudest cheers were all "individualism rocks," and "the social welfare state is slavery," etc.
I gave a loud "BOOO" when Krugman was mentioned; I don't think many of the other people there knew who he was. Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large roar of disdain.
I went to the Tea Party in Clear Lake, the one at which Ron Paul himself spoke. The speaker before him mentioned the gay marriage bit, which I wasn't aware of and made me a bit uncomfortable, but that was balanced out by Paul, near the end of his speech, saying, "We don't want a welfare state or a warfare state, and we're not the world's policemen" and then going into a minute long bit about bringing our troops home.
I was a bit surprised that he slipped it in, and I could sense swaths of the crowd cooling a bit, but he finished strongly by mentioned the constitution and liberty again, which of course everyone loved.
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered the Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a far more developed railroad network and an industrial base that supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
The War Between the States is pretty much the first modern war, where artillery, industrial production and logistical systems determined the outcome. It was the last major war where people marched in formation while fighting; the introduction of rifles, primitive machine guns and more sophisticated artillery meant such tactics were quite suicidal.
I will agree, though, that the South is depressingly militaristic and jingoistic.
I beleive that there are two reasons for this:
1) Much of the Confederacy's industrial base was destroyed in the war due to a) the Confederate Government's disastrous economic policies vis a vis tarrifs, taxation and inflation, b) the destruction by the Union invasion and occupation, c) cost of reparations in the decades following the war, and numerous other less important factors. This made millitary careers unusually attractive. To this day, many southerners see a millitary career as the only way to escape to poverty endemic to their home towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion, enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was considered a high status profession.
Then again, the scars of the war still persist. Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival, and you can hear many themes hostile to the government in Washington DC and to governments in general.
"This made millitary careers unusually attractive. To this day, many southerners see a millitary career as the only way to escape to poverty endemic to their home towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion, enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was considered a high status profession."
Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively oppressed people in the world, in his sleep.
Mike Smart, a 51-year-old oil field worker from West Texas, held up a white handwritten sign that said, "I'll keep my freedom, my $ and my guns. You keep the change."
That's the cleverest line I've heard since B.O. took office. 😉
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate (if occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from again.
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis to bitch about being the victim of the "progressive tax system." You wish Galt wanna bes.
Tarran
Well, the Confederates had some advantages too. The war was a defensive one for them, they just had to not lose, they did not have to win. Hell, look at Vietnam for that (the US had a slight advantage in munitions and stuff there, but how'd it turn it out)?
Also, the Confederate culture and mentality had something to do with them not being able to match the North Industrially. Simply put the Southern culture back then had much to do with being arrogant, unnuanced fools, something they've continued to nurture as a region...
As to why the South later became so lovin' on the military, I imagine it had to do with partly what you mention in getting over the stigma; the man who got whipped in a big fight often takes on a over-the-top obsession with being tough the rest of his life...
"Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively oppressed people in the world"
This always tickles me. The one oppressed people we don't talk much about in the US, because of our bizarre ties with their oppressors, are the Palestinians, and then if anyone mentions them, then that person is obsessed with them above all others.
As I've said countless times there are many people who are being oppressed that I am concerned with. I realize that for people who worship authority and strength(conservatives and some of these pseudo-libertarian conservatives here) concern for an oppressed people equals some kind of obsession to be ridiculed, but the fact is that I care about human rights, broadly. I'm "obsessed" with the Kurds getting their own land (almost there), with the people of Tibet being freed (worked to oppose MFN for China back in the day), and with bringing democracy and rights to the people's of thuggish regimes like N. Korea, Cuba, and pretty much all of Africa. But yes, I care about the Palestinians too, because I apply my principles neutrally to all cases into which they fall.
And what further gets me is that it is not like I just started talking up th Gazans problems out of nowhere. I did so because, er, there was this WAR WHERE A COUPLE THOUSAND OF THEM, MOST NOT HAMAS SUPPORTERS, GOT KILLED. So it made that particular problem in the world a bit more topical.
it's the spending that's killing us. these same quibbledix who are protesting, still seem all happy for someone else to foot the bill for all these "entitlements".
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis to bitch about being the victim of the "progressive tax system."
Strange claim. Are you saying nobody on this board is in the upper 50% that actually pays income taxes? Or is it the top 5% that pays the majority of income taxes? I'm sure almost all of the non-students on this board are in the first group. Many commenters have mentioned that they are in their later years, some surely have income earning spouses, so being in the second group is probably fairly common as well.
To go a little further, this article shows that the top 20% of income earners suffers from our progressive tax system.
Since many commenters on these boards are engineers and lawyers, both professions whose fresh outs are nearly in the top quintile, I would say that many of the commenters on this thread do in fact have a "basis to bitch" about our progressive tax system.
I attended the Houston Tea Party... I really felt that these guys (the protesters) might have more traction if they'd woken up to excessive government intervention before a Democrat got elected... As it stands, it felt like a very partisan protest.
OTOH, Holy Shit there was a huge number of cops out...
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate (if occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from again.
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered the Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a far more developed railroad network and an industrial base that supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
More than that, the Confederacy almost won the war. Had the Battle of Gettysburg gone the other way, Washington DC would likely have been encircled by Confederate armies, and European countries would have recognized and given assistance to the Confederacy. That's how close a deal it was.
Man for man, the Confederate army was probably better; it just didn't have enough of them, or enough munitions for them.
introduces a range of Taliban-like restrictions on women, and permits, among other things, marital rape.
The article attempts to imply that the marital rape rule is an aberrant invention of the Taliban, when in fact it follows naturally from Quran and Hadith. Indeed, Islamic law doesn't consider forcible copulation with your wife to be rape.
Quran 23:5. "And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts).
Quran 23:6. Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame;"
"Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." -- Bukhari, 4.54.460
Here's what a major Hanafi legal manual (The Hidayah) says about taking your wife by force:
"One can enjoy a wife by force"
"But not if she be refractory."
"If a wife be disobedient or refractory and go abroad without her husband's consent, she is not entitled to any support from him, until she return and make submission, because the rejection of the matrimonial restraint in this instance originates with her; but when she returns home, she is then subject to it, for which reason she again becomes entitled to her support as before. It is otherwise where a woman, residing in the house of her husband, refuses to admit him to the conjugal embrace, as she is entitled to maintenance, notwithstanding her opposition, because being then in his power, he may, if he please, enjoy her by force.""
Charles Hamilton (Trans.) The Hedaya. Commentary on the Islamic Laws (Delhi) 1994 (2nd Edition 1870)
I didn't leave because of a minor point about racism on the chimpanzee thread. In case you didn't notice, I'd been away for a few weeks before that thread even appeared.
I bailed because of the dishonest jackassery the dominates every thread and the horse shit that passes for thought among the writers and most of the commentariat, particularly when I dare to write something. The appearance of said dishonest jackassery on that particularly thread was what drove me off more or less for good, not any minor point about racism.
There used to be a point to arguing and reading here, but that moment has passed. Look at the pathetic responses about how I'm being a dishonest dick for claiming that the teabagging turnout was low.
Guess what? It was low. Barack Obama has addressed crowds larger than the entire national turnout for these protests. Oh, that can't be true, cuz joe's mean. Shove it. I'm mean, and I'm right.
I don't think your mean Joe. I just disagree with your crowd estiamte in Boston. I was at the commons for three hours and I am sure there were more than a 1000 people there. You said this was ridiculous.
I am not saying that is bigger than Obama's crowds(not even close). I have pictures of the crowd I can show you that easily make 1000 people look like a reasonable estimate. I'll be happy to email them to anyone who wants to see.
now that your back people want to hear your thoughts on ...increasing faith based funding, increasing federal power to domestically spy, increasing the brutal force of marijuana raids that violate states rights.
You still think Obama appointees like Richard Haas are fundamentally different than the Bush crew?
You really think Geitner is different than Pauslon?!
Oh how we miss being voyeurs to your self delusion.
Tax day was protest day 30 years ago. By April 15, 1990 it'd already gone downhill considerably as a day of focus on protest. It'd have to get back up a good deal to get to where it was 25-30 yrs. ago.
Not a bad development, all in all.
Here, here!
I don't think I fully understand the tea party concept. Who are these people? What are they protesting? Taxes in general? Well, tough shit. Anti-gay marriage throws a wtf in my news-compiler module.
Pro-freedom from taxes but not for the gays? I must be missing something, as this whole clown show seems stupid.
It's actually: Hear! Hear!
... and I completely agree!
Anti-gay marriage throws a wtf in my news-compiler module.
Just as the legacy media hoped it would.
The anti-gay marriage folks are just glomming themselves onto a successful movement; they aren't the movement at all.
however, the Afghan women are courageous and heroic for standing against monumental oppression.
According to The Economist "the gays" should pay higher taxes. They have more disposable income on average thus should pay more in taxes. Right.....right?
The United States of Pansy-ass-ification.
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax protesters.
we give tax credits for children, not heterosexuality, silly. gay couples already pay more taxes.
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax protesters.
That's only because the left doesn't have any guns. If wishing them dead could get the job done, the protesters would be history. The mean protesters don't care about teh children or social justice, and worst of all they are "probably Rethuglican". I forgot unpatriotic. That too. And they're extremists. Probably racist. Did I cover everything?
Hear! Hear!
Not a bad development, all in all.
I'm sure RahmEmanuel agrees! After all, instead of a broad-based opposition to BHO, it's best that the opposition be shown to be as small and loony as possible.
Wave your John Galt signs high, all 0.08% of the last electorate of you!
Not a bad development, all in all.
I'm not seeing that with the tea party BS. I don't know about past 'parties', but this year it seems a lot of GOP handjobs have really latched on to it. So, the one of the parties of big government is pretending to want lower taxes(again). That makes everyone associated with it look stupid. Gotta pay for your wars and bullshit legislation somehow. At least the Democraps are honest about that.
EOM
however, the Afghan women are courageous and heroic for standing against monumental oppression.
Absolutely.
I'm not convinced about the effectiveness of the tea parties. I for one will protest ridiculous overspending and a corrupt political regime that does not represent the will of the people. But because of the decentralized nature of this movement (if one can call it that), the message is getting mixed and hijacked and manipulated all over the place.
Yes, it is a minority of the population that's out there protesting. But you know what? They are protected by the constitution, and the 'majority' that voted Obama into office are fucking morons. I don't care if 99.99% of the population of this country thinks capitalism is evil and fascism is the way to go, they are WRONG.
So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all? 'Go Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and say "No you fuckwads!" ? I'm going for the latter tonight, and I personally hope there are lots more like me there.
Quit being fucking nihilists and stand up for what you believe in.
Shut the fuck up, Lonewacko.
Chad, protests never do anything but give normal people something to laugh at.
Not that I'm saying "normal" is a good thing or anything.
Seriously shut the fuck up lonewhacko
Go fuck yourself.
I went to a tea party protest in Carson City today. It was good times.
What I saw, 95% of the protest being about lower taxes, individual liberty and less government intrusion.
Lots of "throw them all out regardless of party" signs. I have to agree with that one.
Some of Lonewhacko's people were there. Not sure why they were there, the protest was not about Mexicans at all.
There was some 2nd A people there too, I agree with the cause, but that is not what the protest was about.
There was also a bunch of God people there, also not what the protest was about.
95% or more of the people were there for what the protest was about. Some people were there about their own agenda.
A few Ron Paul signs out in effect too.
Warty - that's the thing tho - a lot of normal people are out there today. The tea party protests are attracting a lot of non-politically active, non-protesty types, people who don't usually turn out for stuff like this (because they're working, usually. Protesting is something you do on someone else's dime). Yeah, there are gonna be some whackos who use the coverage to wave their anti-gay or anti-abortion or whatever signs. Kind of like every antiwar rally featured a contingent of cretins with the Israel=Nazi signs. Only you didn't see the cretins featured prominently in the MSM coverage, and you will see every nutball in the teaparty protest featured more than prominently.
I was hoping to see some big headed puppets, tho.
I love the CNN reporter who bitched that the protest was anti-government and anti-CNN. Butch the fuck up, Barbie.
Any opportunity to make snide but innocent jokes about teabagging and politicians is a good opportunity.
I'll try to post some pics of the event later on.
Oh yeah, and kudos to the Afghan women, by all means that is much braver.
The equivalent here would be for the protesters to actually refuse to pay taxes or to do something that really mattered.
I think a few people at the protest were on the border, ready to take the next step. I saw a few signs that said "a revolution is brewing".
I went to the Boston teaparty on my long lunch break and foun it to be fun. There were over 1000 people there. To make gross generalizations, it seemed there were about 25% Rothbardians, 35% Infowarriors (although many were mixed)...and 40% other.
Yes I am saying that after talking with 20 people and seeing the various signs I'd estiamte there were 200 people on the Boston Commons who have read a Rothbard book.
Lots of "End the Fed signs" and "Congress is a toxic asset". Cody Willard showed up with a Fox News camera. We interrupted one of his interviews with a 10 person "End the Fed" chants.
I talked to a guy from redstate.com who was interviewing people...he will cherry pick quotes to make the protest fit whatever image they want it to, but it was still a good thing.
Nice to meet some likeminded people who work in the same neighborhood. We shared emails, already linked on facebook and we will do otehr events. Of course this will be protrayed as badly as possible on the dummy box...however the TV has never converted anybody into understanding the false left-right paradigm. Many of the people I talked to were 20 - 30 years old and they are internet only news readers.
The funniest moment for me was when 6 people were discussing different Rothbard books when a guy came up to hand out "flat tax" pamphlets. The sales pitch did not go well.
Oh, I have witnessed a many left wing protests, the thing that struck me about this protest was how on the same message most of the protesters.
In a left wing protest, you will see protesters that should by all means oppose each other more than opposing what the protest is about.
I mean seriously gays and hamas in the same march?
I mean seriously gays and hamas in the same march?
Now, if it was gays and hummus, with maybe a nice tapenade, that would make sense.
"same-sex couples are planning some tea parties of their own, to protest the government overcharging them. The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight married couples."
They have no more standing to complain about it than single people do.
Now, if it was gays and hummus, with maybe a nice tapenade, that would make sense.
A restaurant near my place spells it "homos". I make sure to get extra homos every time I go.
They have no more standing to complain about it than single people do.
Well they are single people in the eyes of the Federal government.Unless they're "on the down low" or somethin'.
po gay marriage stuff may have been present at the boston tea party and that is fine with me. However, a reporter would have had to really search to find them. I saw over 50 "Don't Tread on Me" flags(Gadsden Flag) and about 20 "End the Fed" signs...all types of other signs protesting the debts being pushed onto our children and I didn't see a single gay marriage sign in 3 hours of walking around and talking. I think there will be another similar nationwide protest day coming in a couple months and I think this is good.
I make sure to get extra homos every time I go.
Oh, I'm sure you do.
"Get out of here, you whores!"
Like a fiendish tropic virus
Spitting bile at all you whores
Razor-sharp tongue-in-cheek
Poking in your open sores
A wolf in sheep's clothing
The ultimate disgrace
Wrapped up as a gift of god
Exploding in your face
Not sure that they gays are really right on this tax thing. If one person in the relationship earns almost all of the income, then filing jointly lowers your taxes compared to filing separately. But if both spouses earn about substantial amounts in their own right, then filing jointly is at best a wash, and often can result in higher taxes because some deductions and credits phase out at higher income levels. My wife and I would pay lower combined taxes if we could each file single.
Paul Begala has a particularly nasty comment linked off the front page of CNN this afternoon about how we teabaggers are just whining to get out of paying our fair share of taxes so the wounded vets can be healed and the cops and firemen can get paid. As if any more than 0.000009% of the Federal Budget went to those kinds of things. Grrrr.
GOVERNOR SAYS TEXAS CAN LEAVE THE UNION IF IT WANTS
I'm already whistling Dixie !
IIRC, in the Arabic script, you have o/u ambiguity. So, homos is just as valid as hummus, hommous, humos, etc.
It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away from taxes, I headed home.
Wah, wah, wah. The gays are always glomming on to everyone else's moment, less the topic be about something other than gays for once.
Those Afghan women deserve a Rosa Parks level of honor. I wonder where the world's feminists are in sharing outrage for the hideous treatment that muslim women receive, but I guess they're more worried about offending muslims in general since many muslims share they're disdain for America.
These protesters, like many of the androids on here don't seem to even understand what the Boston Tea Party was about.
However, Conservative minded types tend to follow their own version of history. For example: Free markets would have ended slavery, if it was allowed to run its course. I shit you not.
"So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all? 'Go Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and say "No you fuckwads!" ?"
Aw, that's cute. A quick glance of Libertarian history shows that the Libertarian community has never evolved past this question. A new generation of cranks, and yet we get the same old desperate cliches.
Here's some free advice: Maybe it's time to reevaluate the philosophy, and evolve. Of course, that's assuming that Libertarians truly want the responsibility of fucking everything up, and then having to claw their way back into the fray after the fallout. In reality, that kind of fearless attitude has never defined the movement. So, I guess it's back to the Rand novels.
Groaning from the sidelines is so much more cathartic, and you never have to be the one to blame.
"It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away from taxes, I headed home."
Your comment effectively sums up the intellectual standard that most Libertarians adhere to.
"GOVERNOR SAYS TEXAS CAN LEAVE THE UNION IF IT WANTS"
Please let it be true, please let it be true, please let it be true.
And can you take Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Georgia too?
And Utah of course.
"My wife and I would pay lower combined taxes if we could each file single."
We've found that out too. Remember when folks talked about "the marriage penalty?"
Still, gay marriages should be recognized by the state of course.
Reason has really hit the big time blog list. They are now an official assignment for trolls working the democrat party smear and beat down list.
Stereotype much, MNG? How progressive of you.
One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation.
I mean, Maine was kicking their ass.
Maine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Maine_Volunteer_Infantry_Regiment
"Stereotype much, MNG? How progressive of you."
You know what I love about conservatives? They carry this fantastic caricature of liberals in their head, that we are all tofu-sushi eating, sandal wearing folk music listening too multicultural loving America hating hippies and then they get all mad when some actual liberal they meet don't act up to that image.
"Hey, you're not playing by the rules!"
The NYC rally had at least 2000 people when I walked by around 7:00. Lots of Gadsden flags!
You know what I love about liberals? They carry this fantastic caricature of conservatives in their head, that we're all congac sipping, white collar wearing, greedy racists and then they get all scared when some actual conservative they meet actually looks a lot like they do.
"Hey, you're supposed to have a sloped brow!"
I went to the Boston teaparty on my long lunch break and foun it to be fun. There were over 1000 people there.
Sure there were. The BPD estimates turnout at half that.
In March 2003, there was a 50,000 person anti-war rally in Boston.
This is RC Dean's "successful movement." You can get up to 2% - generously - the size of the movement that didn't want to invade Iraq in early 2003.
Lol.
"The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight married couples."
Straight unmarried couples that live together don't get any benefit either. I'm all for gay marriage, but the above argument is less than persuasive.
The crowd at the original Boston Tea Party was estimated at 7000, in a city of approximately 18,000 people.
Hilarious!
"One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation."
And since you are a fucking genius, I am sure you can provide some sort of concrete statistic demonstrating that the South is more militaristic. Maybe you can cite the United States Regional Militaristic Index.
The slideshow and captions at the Riverfront TImes are pretty hilarious.
"This is RC Dean's "successful movement." You can get up to 2% - generously - the size of the movement that didn't want to invade Iraq in early 2003."
Hey, I got an idea, let's mention one place that had a lower attendance than expected, for whatever reason, and totally ignore the hundreds of other Tea Party protests around the country. Then let's top it off with a good topping of snark to prove what a dick you still are.
Here is a bit of admittedly amateur poetry for joe
joe from lowell
what a total asshole
ask him to criticize Obama
he can't
he is a total sycophant
Re: gays and the tax code. It's not so much about paying more or less filing single or filing jointly, although that can be a problem. But how about this? Gay people pay the same Social Security tax as straight people, but our partners -- no matter how long we have been together -- don't get any of our Social Security benefits if we die. We don't have inheritance rights from our partners, so we are not exempt from estate tax, as straight married couple are. If we receive health insurance benefits from our partner's employer, we have to pay tax on those benefits -- unlike straight couples. Our tax dollars support the U.S. military, but we do not have the right to serve in the military. And so on. How is any of this fair?
"In March 2003, there was a 50,000 person anti-war rally in Boston."
Given the various statements of those in the media this week, the above can only mean one thing. That rally was an astroturf rally organized by MSNBC and the DNC.
"And can you take Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Georgia too?
And Utah of course"
And, given your hatred of the Jews, New York as well, right?
"joe from lowell
what a total asshole
ask him to criticize Obama
he can't
he is a total sycophant"
You forgot to add:
When Obama says jump
joe says no please
I would much prefer
to get down on my knees
I hate some Jews. I like a lot of Jews. But to be honest, the vast majority of Jews I don't know.
I don't like a lot of the policies of the state of Israel, but then again that's not the same thing as the dumb thing you said.
And as far as the South and militarism, I used to live there. They love them some military down there, they just were not good at making up a winning one it seems...
I dreamed I saw Joe Boyle last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.
From San Diego up to Maine,
in every mine and mill,
Where working men defend their rights,
it's there you find Joe Boyle,
it's there you find Joe Boyle!
The crowd at the original Boston Tea Party was estimated at 7000, in a city of approximately 18,000 people.
Wait a minute... what? I thought it was like seven guys in indian costumes?
Anyways, just got back from the NYC party. It was massive. A solid handful of morons, but mostly people who just hated big government. The "USA" chants made me nervous, but it at least seemed like most people weren't that into them. The loudest cheers were all "individualism rocks," and "the social welfare state is slavery," etc.
I gave a loud "BOOO" when Krugman was mentioned; I don't think many of the other people there knew who he was. Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large roar of disdain.
All in all, good times!
I went to the Tea Party in Clear Lake, the one at which Ron Paul himself spoke. The speaker before him mentioned the gay marriage bit, which I wasn't aware of and made me a bit uncomfortable, but that was balanced out by Paul, near the end of his speech, saying, "We don't want a welfare state or a warfare state, and we're not the world's policemen" and then going into a minute long bit about bringing our troops home.
I was a bit surprised that he slipped it in, and I could sense swaths of the crowd cooling a bit, but he finished strongly by mentioned the constitution and liberty again, which of course everyone loved.
Fuck married people. As a single person I say fuck all you fucks.
I don't care if you are gay, straight, or like to fuck dead animals or wall sockets.
We should charge married couples more, not less.
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered the Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a far more developed railroad network and an industrial base that supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
The War Between the States is pretty much the first modern war, where artillery, industrial production and logistical systems determined the outcome. It was the last major war where people marched in formation while fighting; the introduction of rifles, primitive machine guns and more sophisticated artillery meant such tactics were quite suicidal.
I will agree, though, that the South is depressingly militaristic and jingoistic.
I beleive that there are two reasons for this:
1) Much of the Confederacy's industrial base was destroyed in the war due to a) the Confederate Government's disastrous economic policies vis a vis tarrifs, taxation and inflation, b) the destruction by the Union invasion and occupation, c) cost of reparations in the decades following the war, and numerous other less important factors. This made millitary careers unusually attractive. To this day, many southerners see a millitary career as the only way to escape to poverty endemic to their home towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion, enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was considered a high status profession.
Then again, the scars of the war still persist. Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival, and you can hear many themes hostile to the government in Washington DC and to governments in general.
Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival,
I thought it was Creedence Clearwater Revival.
"This made millitary careers unusually attractive. To this day, many southerners see a millitary career as the only way to escape to poverty endemic to their home towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion, enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was considered a high status profession."
Christ, someone please buy this man a clue.
Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively oppressed people in the world, in his sleep.
@SIV | April 15, 2009, 6:50pm | #
From the article you linked to:
Mike Smart, a 51-year-old oil field worker from West Texas, held up a white handwritten sign that said, "I'll keep my freedom, my $ and my guns. You keep the change."
That's the cleverest line I've heard since B.O. took office. 😉
the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
They had far better officers, and they were also fighting for their homes.
-jcr
I dreamed I saw Joe Boyle last night,
alive as you and me.
Who is this joe boyle person?
Any relation to Susan Boyle ?
Who is this joe boyle person?
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate (if occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from again.
"Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival..."
The members of Creedence hailed from Berkeley, CA. The whole bayou thing was mad up.
Oops, "made up". I must have got orthographically stuck on Solana's Rachel Maddow reference above:
"Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large roar of disdain."
That sounds like a protest worth attending.
For some real "perspective" on how women (and men) are treated in wonderful Afganistan go here
Something like this kinda makes one want to nuke the place 'til it glows in the dark.
Homosexuals are protesting the wrong thing. The unfairness is the progressive tax system.
"The unfairness is the progressive tax system."
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis to bitch about being the victim of the "progressive tax system." You wish Galt wanna bes.
Tarran
Well, the Confederates had some advantages too. The war was a defensive one for them, they just had to not lose, they did not have to win. Hell, look at Vietnam for that (the US had a slight advantage in munitions and stuff there, but how'd it turn it out)?
Also, the Confederate culture and mentality had something to do with them not being able to match the North Industrially. Simply put the Southern culture back then had much to do with being arrogant, unnuanced fools, something they've continued to nurture as a region...
As to why the South later became so lovin' on the military, I imagine it had to do with partly what you mention in getting over the stigma; the man who got whipped in a big fight often takes on a over-the-top obsession with being tough the rest of his life...
"Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively oppressed people in the world"
This always tickles me. The one oppressed people we don't talk much about in the US, because of our bizarre ties with their oppressors, are the Palestinians, and then if anyone mentions them, then that person is obsessed with them above all others.
As I've said countless times there are many people who are being oppressed that I am concerned with. I realize that for people who worship authority and strength(conservatives and some of these pseudo-libertarian conservatives here) concern for an oppressed people equals some kind of obsession to be ridiculed, but the fact is that I care about human rights, broadly. I'm "obsessed" with the Kurds getting their own land (almost there), with the people of Tibet being freed (worked to oppose MFN for China back in the day), and with bringing democracy and rights to the people's of thuggish regimes like N. Korea, Cuba, and pretty much all of Africa. But yes, I care about the Palestinians too, because I apply my principles neutrally to all cases into which they fall.
And what further gets me is that it is not like I just started talking up th Gazans problems out of nowhere. I did so because, er, there was this WAR WHERE A COUPLE THOUSAND OF THEM, MOST NOT HAMAS SUPPORTERS, GOT KILLED. So it made that particular problem in the world a bit more topical.
See, brainiac?
"Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large roar of disdain."
That sounds like a protest worth attending.
Oh, it was.
it's the spending that's killing us. these same quibbledix who are protesting, still seem all happy for someone else to foot the bill for all these "entitlements".
get the spending down first.
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis to bitch about being the victim of the "progressive tax system."
Strange claim. Are you saying nobody on this board is in the upper 50% that actually pays income taxes? Or is it the top 5% that pays the majority of income taxes? I'm sure almost all of the non-students on this board are in the first group. Many commenters have mentioned that they are in their later years, some surely have income earning spouses, so being in the second group is probably fairly common as well.
To go a little further, this article shows that the top 20% of income earners suffers from our progressive tax system.
Since many commenters on these boards are engineers and lawyers, both professions whose fresh outs are nearly in the top quintile, I would say that many of the commenters on this thread do in fact have a "basis to bitch" about our progressive tax system.
it's the spending that's killing us.
yup. and sadly, opposition to spending is so often strictly partisan. they seem to either want to spend it blowing shit up or buying shit up.
I attended the Houston Tea Party... I really felt that these guys (the protesters) might have more traction if they'd woken up to excessive government intervention before a Democrat got elected... As it stands, it felt like a very partisan protest.
OTOH, Holy Shit there was a huge number of cops out...
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate (if occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from again.
I'd wondered where he disappeared to.
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered the Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a far more developed railroad network and an industrial base that supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
More than that, the Confederacy almost won the war. Had the Battle of Gettysburg gone the other way, Washington DC would likely have been encircled by Confederate armies, and European countries would have recognized and given assistance to the Confederacy. That's how close a deal it was.
Man for man, the Confederate army was probably better; it just didn't have enough of them, or enough munitions for them.
ChrisO,
Don't forget that the Confederacy inflicted twice as many casualties on the Union than they suffered.
Wait, was that some gay person upthread complaining, on a Libertarian board, that he is not going to get a government handout when his partner dies?
What's this? joe makes a reappearance and almost nobody comments on it?
introduces a range of Taliban-like restrictions on women, and permits, among other things, marital rape.
The article attempts to imply that the marital rape rule is an aberrant invention of the Taliban, when in fact it follows naturally from Quran and Hadith. Indeed, Islamic law doesn't consider forcible copulation with your wife to be rape.
Quran 23:5. "And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts).
Quran 23:6. Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame;"
"Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." -- Bukhari, 4.54.460
Here's what a major Hanafi legal manual (The Hidayah) says about taking your wife by force:
"One can enjoy a wife by force"
"But not if she be refractory."
"If a wife be disobedient or refractory and go abroad without her husband's consent, she is not entitled to any support from him, until she return and make submission, because the rejection of the matrimonial restraint in this instance originates with her; but when she returns home, she is then subject to it, for which reason she again becomes entitled to her support as before. It is otherwise where a woman, residing in the house of her husband, refuses to admit him to the conjugal embrace, as she is entitled to maintenance, notwithstanding her opposition, because being then in his power, he may, if he please, enjoy her by force.""
Charles Hamilton (Trans.) The Hedaya. Commentary on the Islamic Laws (Delhi) 1994 (2nd Edition 1870)
I didn't leave because of a minor point about racism on the chimpanzee thread. In case you didn't notice, I'd been away for a few weeks before that thread even appeared.
I bailed because of the dishonest jackassery the dominates every thread and the horse shit that passes for thought among the writers and most of the commentariat, particularly when I dare to write something. The appearance of said dishonest jackassery on that particularly thread was what drove me off more or less for good, not any minor point about racism.
There used to be a point to arguing and reading here, but that moment has passed. Look at the pathetic responses about how I'm being a dishonest dick for claiming that the teabagging turnout was low.
Guess what? It was low. Barack Obama has addressed crowds larger than the entire national turnout for these protests. Oh, that can't be true, cuz joe's mean. Shove it. I'm mean, and I'm right.
Did they take your sense of humor, joe?
I don't think your mean Joe. I just disagree with your crowd estiamte in Boston. I was at the commons for three hours and I am sure there were more than a 1000 people there. You said this was ridiculous.
I am not saying that is bigger than Obama's crowds(not even close). I have pictures of the crowd I can show you that easily make 1000 people look like a reasonable estimate. I'll be happy to email them to anyone who wants to see.
now that your back people want to hear your thoughts on ...increasing faith based funding, increasing federal power to domestically spy, increasing the brutal force of marijuana raids that violate states rights.
You still think Obama appointees like Richard Haas are fundamentally different than the Bush crew?
You really think Geitner is different than Pauslon?!
Oh how we miss being voyeurs to your self delusion.
Barack Obama has addressed crowds larger than the entire national turnout for these protests.
Crack used to be popular too. Doesn't mean it's good for you!
Tax day was protest day 30 years ago. By April 15, 1990 it'd already gone downhill considerably as a day of focus on protest. It'd have to get back up a good deal to get to where it was 25-30 yrs. ago.
Part of "freedom" is letting people decide they want traditional attitudes toward sexuality.
Among other things, those highly conservative people seem less neurotic than us moderns.