European Union

Romanian Romance

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From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really, comes this week's big international news story:

In Romania, decriminalizing incest among consenting adults is being considered as part of a wide range of reforms to the country's criminal code. No date has been set yet for a parliament vote on the bill, and opposition to the proposal is fervent even among some lawmakers in the ruling coalition.

Currently all forms of incest in Romania are punishable by up to seven years in prison. But Romania's Justice Ministry suggests the new legislation would move the country—which joined the European Union two years ago—closer legally to some other EU members.

The reforms are getting some press thanks to Josef Fritzl's recent trial in Austria. In case you missed it, he locked up his daughter for 23 years and fathered seven children with her.

But the most shocking stuff from the article isn't the details of the Fritzl case; it is a quote from Valerian Cioclei, Romania's Justice Ministry legal expert:

Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal…We cannot help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing them.

It's a good point, even if Cioclei slyly indicates that voluntary partners need "help" or correction. Romania would follow in the steps of France, Spain and Portugal by not prosecuting consenting adults for their bedroom activities. Naturally, there are plenty of concerned critics, ranging from psychologist to geneticists. The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because it doesn't have a Lot to say on the issue.

Feel like hatin' on the motherfuckers who want to decriminalize incest? Rap along with Romania's Paraziti (The Parasites) below:

Check out Paraziti's "Down With Censorship," featuring Larry Flynt, here. More on incest at Reason here.

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  1. Well Fuck My Sister!!!

  2. Is this Reason innovative sex month or something?

  3. I dont know why the Lot quotation would keep the Vatican from taking a position. I have never heard the behavior of Lot’s daughters described in a positive light.

    The bible is full of examples of both good and poor behavior. Often by the same people.

    David committed adultery and then murder to cover it up. That has never been held up as an example of good behavior.

  4. Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal…We cannot help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing them.

    Burn the heretic!

  5. Instead of having to defend decriminalization, I would ask proponents of anti-incest law to explain why I or anyone else should ever have paid a penny to attempt to enforce laws against it. I don’t give a rip.

  6. Incest is best.

  7. I try to imagine Jean Monnet, or one of the other originators of the United-Europe movement, debating some reactionary about whether it’s advisable to have pan-European institutions setting common norms.

    I imagine the reactionary declaring – “watch out, the pan-European institutions you’re proposing to create may one day make incest legal under the guise of human rights!”

    Monnet would have cited this statement as an illustration of the craziness, irresponsibility and irrationality of the opponents of his United Europe plans.

    Even the reactionary’s political allies would have taken him aside and said, “dude, you’re making our movement lose all credibility! I mean, legalizing incest, that’s just insane! We’re against Monnet’s plans, but we certainly don’t believe it would get that extreme!”

    ‘From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really’

    Unless you count this guy.

    1. You are a fucked up ignorant turd, you piece of shit.

      Now lets see

      Romanians

      Henri Coanda numerous inventions including the first jet engine and first VTOL design aircraft.

      Traian Vuia flew the first machine heavier that air in Europe- “Vuia 1” – using for take off and landing its own on board devices: the engine and the landing gear with wheels. He also applied for the first time the wing with in-flight variable incidence, he conceived and used at his plane the principle of a single tractive propeller and the folding wings solution.

      George Constantinesco Torque Converter transmission which would eliminate the conventional gear box and clutch, also invented the synchronised machine gun that could fire through aircraft propellors.

      Alexandru Ciurcu invented alongside Just Buisson the reaction engine.

      Anastase Dragomir invented the ejection seat for jet pilots.

      Rodrig Goliescu inventor who built the first avioplan, an airplane with a tubular fuselage.

      Petrache Poenaru invented the fountain pen.

      Ioan Cantacuzino his discoveries were relevant in the treatment of cholera, epidemic typhus, tuberculosis, and scarlet fever.

      Eugen Pavel: inventor of the Hyper CD-ROM, a 3D optical data storage medium with a claimed initial capacity of 10 TB and with a theoretical capacity of 1 PB on a single disc.

      Nicolae Paulescu: the discoverer of insulin.

      Oh yeah, lets not forget Nicola Tesla the inventor of the 20th century who is an istro-Romanian from Croatia also known as Vlachs, his name is clearly Romanian and of Romanian decent although asimilated Serbian as many of our other brothers and sisters over the border in fromer Jugoslavia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Ukraine and of course Russia.

      This is but the tip of the iceberg you ignorant turd.

  8. From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really

    Umm, Dracula? Caucescu? Nadia Comaneci? The Numa-numa song?

  9. The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because it doesn’t have a Lot to say on the issue.

    [Groan] Some things just aren’t punny, dude.

  10. Epi-

    I always thought that your sister was hot!

  11. Me too, mike!

  12. Laws legalizing sibling incest discriminate against only children.

    I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to fuck.

  13. Ram it up your poop chute, Warty.

  14. I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to fuck.

    In the age of “Change!!”, I’m sure it’s right around the corner. Taxed at 90%, you know, just in case you enjoy it.

  15. Warty, are you a devil worshiping son of a bitch or something?

  16. Other Matt,

    Shouldn’t it be a targeted tax on people who have 3 or more hot sisters already?

  17. I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to fuck.

    That’s already been taken care of.

    Here in the New American Collective, we’re all brothers and sisters.

  18. Holy shit, this one is even better.

    “Mr. Zappa, do you think that rock music has any responsibility for 3,000 teenagers getting pregnant a day?”

    “No.” *blinks*

  19. So I’m already married to my sister? Where’s the fun in that, Barack?

  20. Interesting.

  21. In other news a dramatic jump in banjo sales in Romania.

  22. Here in the New American Collective, we’re all brothers and sisters.

    Exactly. It’s not constructive to have laws against incest here if they’re just going to be taking the children from birth for mass education. How are you supposed to know your brothers and sisters from your “brothers and sisters?”

  23. Shouldn’t it be a targeted tax on people who have 3 or more hot sisters already?

    I need to target these people and become friends with them.

  24. From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really, comes this week’s big international news story:

    During the fall of the Iron Curtain, the Romanians did give us the most definitive and satisfying end to communist rule.

    Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal…We cannot help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing them.

    Are we absolutely certain that Valerian Cioclei is really a goverment official?

  25. Umm, Dracula? Caucescu? Nadia Comaneci? The Numa-numa song?

    Numa-numa came from Moldova. Which is why the rest of the world didn’t give a shit when Russia did an Abchazia against them.

  26. This thread is making the doggie-human lovestory thread lonely.

  27. Jamie,

    Be tasteless, rude, and offensive,
    Live in a swamp and be three dimensional,
    Put a live chicken in your underwear,
    Get all excited and go to a yawning festival.

  28. I advice against incest, but consenting adults should be able to legally marry if they want.

  29. From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really

    Does the largest building in Europe count?

  30. Whatever you say about Rick Santorum, you can’t say he didn’t warn us about this.

  31. Feel like hatin’ on the motherfuckers who want to decriminalize incest?

    This, and the “onslaught of boobs?” I like the new guy.

  32. Wow, maybe Mary Ruwart should moved to Romania and run for president.

    The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because it doesn’t have a Lot to say on the issue.

    Which is probably a good thing because Romania is an ORTHODOX Christian nation which means the opposition to such “reforms” will be considerbaly stronger and more ferocious.

    You bring up the Vatican to make snarky point and you Cosmos only make yourself look stupid. Try finishing school next time.

  33. From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really

    They brought us Ionesco.

  34. yeah, once I took a “would you have been a Nazi” test on the interwebz. It said I would have expatriated like Einstein, but I don’t think any of my cousins would marry me.

    Haha, “Lot”… that’s so great…

  35. ‘From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really’

    The jet plane was invented by a romanian 😉 Henri Coanda. One of the biggest invention in the history…

  36. From the country that brought you…well, not much of anything really, comes this week’s big international news story:

    think again! the tragedy of Romania is to be roulled by some simply stupid people. this has happend for more than 70 years… the media and people do not agree with this. but think again please (or search google): henry coanda, nikola tesla, traian vuia (even if you watch discovery, vuia had the first flight), herman obert (was him german? so what is sibiu for obert?), brancusi, etc. etc…

    so I will rephrase this: “the country where everyone took everything”

  37. If you would ask Romanians what they think about decriminalizing incest, an overwhelming majority would say they are against the idea and not only because of religious reasons. So please don’t depict the country as some backwater full of retards with no morals whatsoever.

    As about what Romania brought to the world some readers already mentioned Eug?ne Ionesco, Henri Coanda, Nadia Comaneci to name a few.

  38. reason? Where exactly you can find reason in an article chocking with misleading quotes and ignorance? Free minds, free markets, exiled intelligence. From the country who brought you this: http://www.happyfish.ro/bucharest_facts/informatie_genetica/

  39. Mr. Winkler, if you don’t know …almost nothing (because Comaneci and Dracula won’t make your general knowledge a medium-level one. You’ll have to read books, not newspapers in order to accomplish an upper level), that doesn’t means Romania “brought nothing”. I could send you a long list of Romanians who “brought” something-if you’ll ask me, but right now I want to ask you a question: what about homosexuality? Is that moral because most of occidental people agree with it and let it be legal?
    I don’t think we should accept a law which allows incestuous relations, but I can’t agree with ignorance and hate neither. And I can’t accept that living in a rich (poor) country can automatically made you clever (miserable). Maybe your country is on the wave now, but -personally- you may need to go back to school just a little bit more.

  40. It seems everyone has overseen a little something….hap…Tesla was Serbian

  41. @Alex: Tesla was serbian of romanian etnicity.

    Most people here would rather write something idiotic than search a little bit on Google. Romania brought you some stuff, maybe not a lot but enough – from vaccines to aviation and jet engine – for a tiny country always in the shadow of some empire. And it is not catholic! And is not at all as religulous as a certain “advaced” country. And ranks numbers 6 in the world as internet speed, as opposed to number 30 for US. And the vast amjority of people live in real cities, not in countrside or suburbs. And (still) has a very good educations system. And free health care.

    Europe in general has a lot of liberties and laws that would be considered in the country with a Bible belt against god and nature. On the other hand incest is really a lot less common than in the same bible belt.

    I really don’t understand the problem with sex between consenting adults. Who cares? Jeff Winkler? I understand why they should not have kids or marry, but sex? The present law punishes sex, not making kids.

  42. I would ask proponents of anti-incest law to explain why I or anyone else should ever have paid a penny to attempt to enforce laws against it.

    Maybe the cost of stopping them is less than the increased health care cost of caring for their children, and the weakening of the gene pool by said children.

    On the other hand maybe it’s not. Maybe the social stigma is enough. just like with many drugs, before they were illegal it’s not like their use was widespread. (And of course we will spend money as a society to help those kids and to make life easier for them, even if some of us think we shouldn’t.)

    Not to mention that such sex is often a symptom of childhood abuse either by the sibling or a parent, where the weaker partner cannot trust others and turns only to their sibling. they need help. Unlike drugs where you hurt yourself, this could be one person hurting another, though maybe not conciously.

    It is like bigamy. Is bigamy really ever “consenting adults” no it’s not. It’s almost always abuse of young girls by men decades older. We can’t simply ignore that can we?

    If we think about it as stockholm syndrom, would we not help that person even if they are an adult and are freely choosing to be with their abuser?

    I don’t know, I’m torn on these issues since I always think of them as most often one person being abused or taken advantage of.

  43. I’m proud of Romania, for once. Usually, it sports the latest in non-freedom, but I love the fuss this is generating.

    I can’t see why a libertarian would oppose incest if between two consenting adults. And Anais Nin based her literary career on it..

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