John McCain

As a Matter of Fact, I Like Beer

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Who "won" the debate? As usual, I will not presume to speak for the plain people of Peoria. But sticking to my personal reactions:

John McCain made some genuinely good points tonight. He scored a hit with his attack on Fannie and Freddie, he seemed aware that entitlements are going to be a problem down the road (though his "solutions" were inane), and his comparison of Barack Obama to Herbert Hoover was both surprising and on target. In the economic discussions, he made sense more often than Obama did. But that's a low bar to clear. McCain's repeated calls for the government to buy up bad mortgages, his obsession with the chimera of "energy independence," and his support for the Wall Street bailout should put to rest any lingering suspicion that he has a free-market heart.

In foreign policy, on the other hand, I have to give the edge to Obama. I didn't agree with everything he said, but his comment that John "Bomb Iran" McCain doesn't "speak softly" was as solid a punch as McCain's comment about Hoover. And I strongly suspect that it impressed more viewers.

The winner? As far as I'm concerned, it's Bell's Kalamazoo Stout. I'm on my third bottle.

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  1. As someone who spent my college years in Kalamazoo, I salute your beverage of choice tonight.

  2. If you’re drinking Bell’s and it’s not Two Hearted Ale, I fear you may be the loser tonight, sir.

    Me, I’m drinking bourbon.

  3. Who “won” the debate?

    Israel? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Iran.

  4. I thought Obama won the debate, but America will lose in the election.

  5. I am not going to trust any dimwit here on who won this debate. I am going right to the source, Sean Hannity. He’ll know.

  6. McCain won me over when he said that America has the strongest importers and exporters.

    As a long standing employee at Vandalay industries – where we do both imports and exports – he spoke to my issues as a worker.

  7. Now that health care is a “right,” I can’t wait until all my fellow citizens who want socialized health care to get what they so richly deserve.

    As a veteran, I’m willing to bet that the V.A. medical system has created more libertarians in this country than a free giveaway of Ron Paul bumper stickers. If you want to know what your “universal health care” system will look like, go visit your local V.A. hospital and enjoy a chat with all the broken-down veterans waiting hours to see a doctor who shrugs his shoulders and says, “hmmm … beats the shit out of me what’s wrong with you!”

    As Mr. Spock once observed in one of the better Star Trek episodes, “You’ll find that having is never as pleasing as wanting …”

    I’m sure they’ll be handing out ponies, pie, and chips at the doors of the clinics, of course.

  8. “Now that health care is a “right,” I can’t wait until all my fellow citizens who want socialized health care to get what they so richly deserve.”

    The problem is that YOU will also get the socialized health care that they so richly deserve.

  9. LOVE Bell’s Kalamazoo Stout, and, well, anything from Bell’s. Love. Love. Love. Sorry your experience was sullied with an exercise in political rhetoric, though.

  10. McCain looked like a boob calling for a buyout of mortgage debt and a spending freeze in the same debate.

  11. What is the label that Czech Budweiser is sold under in the United States. Why is it that you can’t sell a beer by the name Budweiser in the United States just because there is a spring water by the same name?

  12. Next, try New Holland’s brews – if you need some where you are, let me know where I should send them in exchange for my subscription.

  13. I got engaged in Kalamazoo. In front of Alfred E Bike. Very romantic.

  14. Was it just me or did McCain talk like he’s been hangin around a certain hockey mom too much?

  15. We broke out the Dos Equis around here, before dipping in to the hard liquor by the end.

    Maybe with an Obama administration I’ll get to drink as much as I want because the government will fix my liver.

  16. What is the label that Czech Budweiser is sold under in the United States.

    Czechvar

  17. I didn’t watch the debate, but Andrew Sullivan said it was a complete wipe-out by Obama. I will continue to trust his objectivity regarding this election.

  18. “McCain looked like a boob calling for a buyout of mortgage debt and a spending freeze in the same debate.”

    Sir, be reasonable. This is a Presidential debate, not an episode of Jerry Springer. Common sense and coherence are not advisable.

  19. Kennedy: I would just like to take this moment to express my fondness for Duff Beer.
    Nixon: I would also like to express my fondness for that particular beer.
    Homer: The man never drank a Duff in his life!

  20. DDP | October 7, 2008, 11:07pm | #

    I didn’t watch the debate, but Andrew Sullivan said it was a complete wipe-out by Obama. I will continue to trust his objectivity regarding this election.

    I remember how much Andrew Sullivan was a gullible, overexcited kool-aid drinker after 9/11 and in the runup to the Iraq War, so I don’t have any trouble at all believing that, like David Horowitz, he’s remained exactly the same a-hole even as his political philosophy has been inverted.

  21. What’s the point in having a townhall debate if Tom Brokaw is asking all the questions?

  22. Bell’s Kalamazoo Stout? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!

  23. Yeah, it was all about Tom Brokaw.

    Gwen Ifill was criticized for letting Palin just talk about whatever, whenever, but Brokaw seems to have overcorrected.

  24. The problem is that YOU will also get the socialized health care that they so richly deserve.

    No, actually I work for a living and pay for private insurance. One visit to the House of Mirrors was enough for me! But go and exercise that newfound Constitutional right, and tell me how it turns out for you!

  25. The highest reported patient satisfaction in the country is with the military’s health care system.

    Number 2 is Medicare.

    Number 3 is the VA.

    Then we get into private insurance.

    Individual anecdotes aside.

  26. “his comparison of Barack Obama to Herbert Hoover was both surprising and on target”

    Yea but he didn’t explain who Hoover was so many americans will miss the point.

  27. I don’t know about how he presidented, but I sure likes his lectric carpet sweepers.

  28. McCain looked like he could collapse at any second – Obama was polished, but vacuous as always.
    The choice is really between the old warmongerin national greatness dude and the plastic negro with no experience.

  29. McCain: fought corruption, fought earmarks, fought lobbyists, fought greed, fought dix. You remember when…

  30. Considering how free and generous the VA is with psychotropic meds, I’m not at all surprised at that statement, Joe.

    Source?

    Keep in mind the ratio of NON-vets paying into the V.A. system through taxation compared to the number of vets who get “benefits.”

    Then, take 300,000,000 people (figuratively speaking) paying into a system that 300,000,000 people will expect full service from, under an Obama plan. Let me know how that satisfaction survey turns out, when the time comes.

  31. My impression was that McCain slightly won.

    He seemed to give more specific information about his policy proposals. Obama, it seemed to me, focused a lot on saying “Bush screwed up all of this stuff:…….and McCain supported him most of time….etc”. Of course, everyone knew he would say that to some extent; but we already know his position on that and there is a point of diminishing returns for statements of that kind.

    Also, there wasn’t much discussion on where we go from here in Iraq, which would have favored Obama. McCain has no clear exit plan or endgame ideas of which I’m aware, most Americans oppose an open-ended presence, and Obama could have challenged his assertion that his timetable would end in “defeat”.

  32. McCain looked and sounded like the doddering old angry white dude beggin for another chance to do things all mavericky and stuff.

    Obama looked and sounded like the energetic, thoughtful, empathetic young man that has a plan to make the U.S. a great nation for everyone.

    just my opinion. I predict the voters will concur in a few weeks.

  33. wow. joe just pointed out that people like free things, and so probably complain less. That is a remarkable finding.

  34. It was three Dewars for me…

  35. Considering how free and generous the VA is with psychotropic meds…..

    So you’re saying their not all bad?

  36. A new national intelligence estimate on Iraq predicts a new flairup of sectarian violence. Kinda puts the ole buzzkill on McCains repeatedly repetitious repeatings that the surge worked. so I guess Obama was right about this facet of the war as well.

  37. BTW, nice Tom T. Hall reference in the headline (for a Town-Hall debate, perhaps?)

  38. “…his comparison of Barack Obama to Herbert Hoover was both surprising and on target. ”

    On target how? The last time taxes were increased in a tough economy was October 1990, when George H. W. Bush raised taxes (remember “Read my lips, no new taxes?”). The economy was in recession July 1990-March 1991.

  39. “I am not going to trust any dimwit here on who won this debate. I am going right to the source, Sean Hannity. He’ll know.”

    In a startling development, it seems that the text message poll on Hannity & Colmes has McCain winning the debate w/ 84% of the vote. This is the type of game changer the McCain camp was hoping for – 84% of the Hannity & Colmes viewership!!!
    Everything is coming up Millhouse for McCain from here on out.

  40. Shannon: Yes, the “last time” bit was screwy. I meant the comparison itself, not the elision of several decades of history between Hoover’s day and ours.

    Sebastian: The world needs more Tom T. Hall references.

  41. I’d give it to Obama narrowly, but I think McCain did a pretty good job anyway.

    Things that jumped out:

    1) Buying mortgages? Did that come out of left field (no pun intended) or what? I mean, I may have just missed it, but it seems like if this is his solution for immediate relief he maybe should have been pitching it in Washington as an alternative to or component of the bailout. Was he doing that? Has he mentioned it before?

    2) I still don’t get why having diplomatic contacts with Iran is such a bad thing.

    3) McCain seemed to focus on a lot of pet issues, whereas Obama took a broader view that in a lot of cases was inclusive of McCain’s ideas.

    4) The “that one” comment is going to get a lot of play but really I think it was just McCain stumbling over his words.

    5) Speaking of which, when Obama stumbled, he just seemed like he was stumbling–when McCain did it, man, he seemed fucking old.

    6) CNN had bloggers in the studio… to blog?

    7) CNN’s pre-debate coverage was ridiculous.

    8) McCain has a reputation as a hawk so I think his “walk softly” line didn’t go anywhere. And Obama nailed him on that anyway.

    9) Obama flat out says he’s going to offer a middle class tax cut. McCain… doesn’t believe him?

    10) Obama’s answer about not starting a war with Pakistan sort of missed the point that military operations on Pakistan soil is actually a pretty good way to start a war. Although for all his talk, I get the impression that McCain only opposes this because Obama favors it.

    11) McCain uh still doesn’t know what a strategy is?

  42. Watching Reason’s favorite candidate’s comm. director on H&C, I was fervently wishing that Hannity had punched that unctous bastard in the face.

    This is what it’s going to be like if Reason gets its way: endless baiting of one form or another.

    If anyone – unlike Reason Magazine – cares about the U.S., get out there and Help Defeat Barack Obama.

  43. If I worked during the golden age of newspapers, I’d be drunk right now. How do they expect journalists to do this crap sober?

  44. In a startling development, it seems that the text message poll on Hannity & Colmes has McCain winning the debate w/ 84% of the vote.

    Funny. Hannity never believed the text polls when Ron Paul was winning them.

  45. I saw Hannity losing it a few minutes ago when he started beating the Ayers connection drum again. He said Obama is friends with a terrorist! Exclamation point!

    I think Obama could wear a hitler mustache the last month of the campaign and if the economy continues to tank, he would still win the election.

  46. “Buying mortgages? Did that come out of left field (no pun intended) or what? I mean, I may have just missed it, but it seems like if this is his solution for immediate relief he maybe should have been pitching it in Washington as an alternative to or component of the bailout. Was he doing that? Has he mentioned it before?”

    I thought it was odd that he treated such a big shift in his overall philosophy as a throw away line.

    “2) I still don’t get why having diplomatic contacts with Iran is such a bad thing.”

    Because 9/11 something something stinking corpse.

    “4) The “that one” comment is going to get a lot of play but really I think it was just McCain stumbling over his words.”

    It reminded me of the scene in “A Few Good Men” when Col. Jessup disrespects the judge and Daniel Caffey. Obama should have said “I am a United States Senator, and you’re going to lose this election you son of a bitch.”

    “7) CNN’s pre-debate coverage was ridiculous.”

    Why, because they have 63 people, all w/ laptops in front of them, trying to all give their 63 different opinions?

  47. “Number 2 is Medicare.”

    I wonder what a survey of the people on the paying end of the equation who don’t have the slightest chance in hell of getting the same level of benefits when they retire that they are having to finance for current retirees would say about the “popularity” of the program?

  48. “Funny. Hannity never believed the text polls when Ron Paul was winning them.”

    Thats just one of the many funny things about Sean Hannity.

  49. “…and his support for the Wall Street bailout should put to rest any lingering suspicion that he has a free-market heart.”

    Remember that no matter what happens, we free market fundamentalists never ever have to question our assupmtions and basic principles and beliefs. Never!

  50. Franklin Harris: If I worked during the golden age of newspapers, I’d be drunk right now. How do they expect journalists to do this crap sober?

    You clearly weren’t paying attention earlier

    Also, the Obama-Hoover comparison intrigues me (though, for reasons stated above involving the age of the reference, it seems like a poor talking point). Does anyone know of a non-wingnut discussion of it? All I can find at the moment are arguments along the line of “Obama Hoover taxes booga-booga!”

    Anon

  51. Sounds uneventful. Glad I missed it.

    What’s to argue? One has image and finesse, the other has substance (misguided, but still).

    Neither have both.

  52. Though technically minor in the whole scheme of things, I was a tad glad to see Obama name Venezuela when presenting a bad ol’ country our oil dollars are flowing to.

    Usually politicians trot out the usual Saudi Arabia or Iran as the boogeyman of foreign oil, but for a Democrat nominee to imply something negative about the leftist heartthrob Chavez took me by surprise a bit.

  53. “I saw Hannity losing it a few minutes ago when he started beating the Ayers connection drum again. He said Obama is friends with a terrorist! Exclamation point!”

    Crap! I missed that. But when saying that did he count out each word in his sentence using his fingers – as if each separate word constitutes a seperate point, rather than just a collection of words leading to one, single point? Because thats my favorite thing that he does.

  54. It was pretty much an Obama blow-out according to the snap polls, assholes like Sullivan aside.

  55. “that one”

    that one what sir? that boy? that misegynist? that black bastard?

  56. OLS watches Hannity and Colmes.

    I didn’t realize he’s so high brow! What a cultured man he is.

  57. Franklin Harris: If I worked during the golden age of newspapers, I’d be drunk right now. How do they expect journalists to do this crap sober?

    You clearly weren’t paying attention earlier

    Well, let’s just say there are things I can get away with while reporting on an out-of-town conference that I can’t get away with in the office.

  58. misegynist

    i guess that’s like the sinful half breed spawn of one word and another, totally different word that god meant to keep apart.

  59. I’m more of a Big Porch Ale or Bell’s Special Double Cream Stout drinker myself, but can’t fault you on the Kalamazoo Stout.

    Prost!

  60. Try Oberon. God I love Bell’s brews.

  61. It was two Pyramid Apricot Ales for me tonight.

    But I didn’t watch the debate. It made the beer go down easier.

  62. This is what it’s going to be like if Reason gets its way: endless baiting of one form or another.

    And this is what it’s going to be like if LoneWacko gets his way: endless `bating of one form or another.

  63. I thought they were both equally boring tonight. I actually fell asleep at one point.

  64. If anyone – unlike Reason Magazine – cares about the U.S., get out there and Help Defeat Barack Obama.

    Ah, but that means you’ll be electing Juan McAmnesty, then. But who ever said you were consistent?

  65. Thanks DDB

  66. BobDobalina, Anthony D,

    Patient satisfaction in countries with universal systems – be they French-style single payer systems or English-style national health systems – is also consistently higher than in America.

    But suddenly, patient satisfaction is no longer a useful measure, I imagine. That’s how it usually works, anyway.

  67. The highest reported patient satisfaction in the country is with the military’s health care system.

    Number 2 is Medicare.

    Number 3 is the VA.

    This kind of flat factual assertion, as always, calls for a link.

    I would say that “patient satisfaction” is usually measured at the provider level, not the payer level. Satisfaction is, of course, a reflection not of quality delivered, but expectations, however low, met.

  68. Last night I dreamed that I passed from the scene
    And I went to a place so divine
    The water was clear and it tasted like beer
    Then they turned it all into wine (Awww)

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