Drug Raid/Self-Defense Case Brewing in Columbus, Ohio

Last Thursday night, police in Columbus, Ohio raided what they thought was a crack house. Though initial reports say some illicit drugs were found, the police thus far haven't been forthcoming about what type or how much. It's starting to look like the place was instead a gambling house.

When the police busted in, two men—who now say they thought they were being robbed—fired at the door. Two police officers were wounded. Both are likely to survive. The two men are being charged with attempted murder. The police say they announced twice before battering down the door, but at least one witness not in the house at the time says he only heard an order from one officer for "knockers" to break out the windows.

One of the two men who fired at the officers is a former Ohio State University football player named Derrick Foster. Foster says he was playing dice at the house when he heard a loud bang at the door, then heard someone say the place was being robbed. That's when he fired his gun at the men breaking down the door.

Foster hardly fits the profile of a crazed cop killer. He has no criminal record. He isn't suspected of drug activity. He has a legal concealed carry permit for the gun he used in the raid. He works a $60,000/year job as a code inspector for the city of Columbus. His last performance review described him as "an asset to the Near East Side." The other suspect's record is quite a bit more spotty. Still, if Foster genuinely thought the place was about to be robbed—and I think it's more than reasonable to believe him when he says that he did—it's reasonable that the other man would too, criminal record or no.

One again we have a someone facing serious charges for shooting at police during a volatile, confrontational forced entry raid to serve a drug warrant. Again we have injured cops, and again we have a guy who otherwise would have no motivation to want to harm a police officer. But instead of questioning if it's a wise policy to put an ordinary citizen in the perilous position of having to determine in the heat of the moment if the men breaking in on him are cops or criminal intruders, the state has again decided to prosecute the citizen—for making the kind of error in judgment it rarely prosecutes police for making under similar circumstances. And the raids will undoubtedly continue.

Comments

[Libertarian Jim]

I must admit that my race is Caucasian and I'll bet Mr. Foster is a minority.

I would like to see a statistical analysis of No Knock Raids based on racial breakdown.

The prosecutor is now in a predicament. Either he prosecutes the suspect or lose support from law enforcement and ruin his career. This is what we call a justice system?

[ktc2]

I stopped refering to it as a "justice system" many years ago Jim. I think we should all refuse to give it that bit of legitimacy in our discussions. It is now simply a "legal system" wherein the law no longer serves justice but is an end unto itself.

[J Golden Rockwell]

"Though initial reports say some illicit drugs were found, the police thus far haven't been forthcoming about what type or how much."

This, in itself, is an indication that the cops stuck their toe in the fan.

If there were enough drugs to warrant the raid, there would have been a press conference to show the table loaded with the dope, guns, cash, etc that had been found. When they don't do this, it's because they found so little that they would be laughed at.

Care to bet -- if I dare use that word -- that the "tip" came from someone who wanted revenge after losing money in the games . . ?

[Phillip Conti]

why does a code inspector make $60k a year?

[Audrey B]

I know I'm not the first person who read this story and thought this to themselves, but: Damn, not again!

[tarran]

They were right; they were being robbed.

The valuables that the gang calling itself "the Columbus PD" were after wasn't cash, jewelry or electronic gear, but drugs.

But it was a robbery nonetheless.

The fact that the dangerous Columbus PD gang was not trying to profit from their thefts but to destroy the stuff they stole for moral reasons is not a mitigating circumstance.

It just means they are no different from other criminal gangs like the Your Muslim Bakery in Oakland which is, aside from auto theft and murder and rape of underage girls, is well known for breaking into liquor stores and trashing them because alcohol consumption is morally wrong.

[stuck in 200]

It's pretty well established now that the police can do what they want to citizens with impunity. In rare cases where the citizen involved is unusually sympathetic or the police misconduct is 3rd or 4th standard deviation stunning there may be some consequences for law enforcement, but that's become more unusual than man bites dog.

We're far past the point where the pattern has been established. What's the program for doing something about it? Is there anyone with the influence to change it (politicians, activists, whatever) making this a talking point? How do we protect such leaders and movements from becoming targets of the legal system for "unrelated" reasons?

[Jawbreaker]

Having lived less than a block from where this happened, I can say it is certainly reasonable to expect an unannounced banging at the door to be a home invasion of some sort.

[Episiarch]

There will never be a change in these policies--NEVER--until police are held accountable for fuckups as much as regular citizens.

So, basically, this will never change. Happy Sunday!

[Colin]

These stories are becoming a broken record . . .

[J sub D]

-for making the kind of error in judgment it rarely prosecutes police for making under similar circumstances.

Rarely? Do any of the illustrious commenters have knowledge of a police officer being charged with murder, attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon or something similar, for shooting a citizen during a chaotic confrontational episode like this one?

That is a serious question. A link to a reputable source would be appreciated.

An aside - Over the last few years, Radley Balko has ruined more of my Sundays than the Detroit Lions. No small achievement there.

[sv]

J sub D - if you are just looking for instances where officers are charged, look no further than the Sean Bell case in NYC. Those cops were charged with manslaughter and reckless endangerment, if I'm not mistaken. It wasn't a raid / home invasion, but it was a pretty chaotic scene. bell and co. unarmed, but apparently talking shit, unmarked/plainclothes cops firing 50 shots, bell killed. cops acquitted of all charges.

[P Brooks]

The valuables that the gang calling itself "the Columbus PD" were after wasn't cash, jewelry or electronic gear, but drugs.

I would be willing to bet [D'oh!] the cops seized any cash they could lay their hands on, and the rightful owners stand a near-zero chance of ever getting it back.

[sv]

PS - i haven't heard anything about bell & company being involved in the prostitution etc. these cops were investigating at the strip club outside which this all happened, or in anything illegal when it happened, so they were just regular citizens rather than criminals.

[Rick Henry]

This is ridiculous. It's so frustrating when things like this happen. I hope some day America changes for the better. People shouldn't be criminalized for doing something in the privacy of their own home that is completely non-violent. I loathe the nanny state.

I have a friend who is going through police academy right now. He and I were talking the other day about it, and he mentioned that police basically can't be charged with anything while on the job. If an officer runs a red light, with or w/o his lights on, even if he's not chasing a criminal, and he hits you, then you are responsible for paying the damages. That is completely fucking proposterous.

Damn.

-Rick

[Neil]

I notice some people like to focus on all the mistakes cops make.

But the far-left legalization extremists like George Soros et. al never tell us how many raids go on every day without incidient, or how many tons of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin were stopped from polluting the minds of our countrymen.

[sv]

most of the cops i've met have been honest and fair, and of the mistakes made in performing that obviously difficult job, i'm sure that the vast majority are really, honest mistakes. but shouldn't there be disincentives, consequences, for when police make serious mistakes? i'm talking about things like the no-fault-ever car-crash scenario Rick mentioned above, or much more importantly, the deprivation of a citizen's very life at the hands of a panicky cop. what if a cop really is guilty of negligence or manslaughter in the line of duty? even if we don't focus on criminal prosecutions, some better institutional practices or oversight is necessary. i'm a dark-skinned young man living in NYC, so even though i am law-abiding, this is more than a political or theoretical concern for me.

[Garth Strait]

Let's face it: we live in a Police State, and the majority of our fellow citizens, by supporting the drug war and backing police paramilitary tactics, are fine with that.

[Episiarch]

Neil!

[Dave B.]

I'll bite, Neil - How many tons of cocaine, marijuana and heroin are being kept out of American bodies by these raids? Keep in mind that the people sent to prison by them still have access to drugs, as do any people who live in an area with more than one dealer.

I'd guess that drug consumption is almost completely unaffected by successful raids. If you have hard evidence to the contrary, I'd love to know about it.

[J sub D]

Neil,
Go fuck yourself, you solidified pool of sebacious sweat.

[Neil]

For all you far-left leagliazatin advocates, you should study what happened to China when their country ended up addicted to Opium. They went from a great power to a fifth-rate nation within a century. The British knew that, thats why they were pushing opium to the Chinese.

Its the same reason many Islamofascists are behind the drug trade in the United States today. By polluting our minds and bodies they can weaken our resolve to fight the global conflict. The War on Drugs and the War on Terror is really the same ball of wax.

[Rick Henry]

I didn't mean to completely come down on the police. I have had a few really bad, but also a few really good experiences with police and the justice system. And hell, even one of my friends is going to be an officer. My problem is when police are above the law. One thing I didn't address previously was the catch 22 with the situation. We all see the obvious problem of the police being basically untouchable, but if you have an officer always afraid to do their job for fear of being prosecuted even if they had the best of intentions, then it could potentially cause them to become less active towards real criminals. I don't think the big problem is corrupt officers, so much as it is a problem of policy in lawmaking in the first place. It's an incredibly difficult situation to deal with properly, and no matter what you decide, there will be drawbacks to either side of the argument.

Once again,
Damn.

[Neil]

J Sub D where does legalization end? Are you going to let people buy not only marijuana but cocaine, heroin, and LSD over the counter no questions asked?

[Naga Sadow]

When was China a great power, Neil? Even now, their still not even an industrial superpower.

Thanks J sub D. Sebacious. I like it. Word for the day. I'll end up using before I'm off work later.

[Naga Sadow]

Neil,

People already buy those drugs. Idiot.

[Naga Sadow]

Neil,

Whether its over the counter or on a street corner, people will get the drugs they want.

[Neil]

Yeah and people murder and steal from eachother too. Doesn't mean we should legalize murder or robbery.

[Naga Sadow]

Neil,

No one's arguing to legalize murder or theft. Where is your moral equivalency argument?

[Neil]

The far-left legalization advocates always say "oh well people use drugs even when they're illegal".

Yeah well, they commit all kinds of other crimes that are illegal too. That was my point.

[Episiarch]

OK, I've had it. Whoever is behind Neil, just admit it, get your compliments, and end my curiosity.

[Naga Sadow]

Far left legalization advocates? Sounds awfully similiar to "vast right wing conspiracy". Other illegal crimes? Such as?

[Kolohe]

Its the same reason many Islamofascists are behind the drug trade in the United States today. By polluting our minds and bodies they can weaken our resolve to fight the global conflict.

If there was such a thing as the 'Al Queda East India Company' you may have stumbled upon an interesting historical analogy.

As it is, if Deadwood isn't lying to me, there were plenty of dope fiends in the population that spread from sea to shining sea during the same period as the opium wars.

[Naga Sadow]

Episiarch,

I suspect that "Neil" is an FBI, ATF, or DEA agent. Keepin' tabs on the "radicals" and what not.

[Neil]

Its not a secret

[Neil]

Er, its not a secret that George Soros a far-left liberal activist and billionaire is funding many of these legalization outfits.

[tarran]

Well, given the drugs were outlawed because

1) Black men who smoked marijuana thought they were just a s good as a white man, and women who liked Jazz (the gangster rap of the 30's) were known to get high and have sex with black musicians

2) Chinese people liked opium and the U.S. governemnt had a policy of doing everything needed to keep Asiatics (as they called them) from permanently settling in the U.S.

Essentially, I think neil is trying to preserve the purity of the white race. He and his friends may have lost the battle to keep people of different races from marrying each other, but they are not going to surrender and allow the U.S. to become a free country where people are allowed to do what they want so long as they are not injuring another.

It is notable that people who are into national socialism of the type that McCain promotes tend to frown on people taking drugs or behaving in other unhealthy ways since they want their cannon fodder to be as healthy as possible when they show up at boot camp.

[Episiarch]

No, "Neil" is performance art by--probably--VM. He cannot be real, as he is too much the exemplification of a neocon. It's too perfect, so it has to be an excellent hoax.

[Naga Sadow]

Kolohe,

There have always been drugs, drug users, and drug abusers. Alexander the Great was a drunk. Marcus Aurelias was an opium addict.

[Naga Sadow]

Funding legalization outfits you say? The capitalist in me knows its wrong but me thinks I wanna rent seek from the billionaire.

*shuffles papers around, places DARE poster on his wall*

[ktc2]

Could be, or more likely just some right wing loon looking for a debate. Sorry "Neil" there is no debate, the facts are in, the lies are old. There is not even so much as a "good faith" position left in favor of prohibition. It continues to be a complete failure that does more harm than good.

[TJIT]

Neil,

Actually the advocates for legalization include lots of conservatives. These are the folks who have taken the time to understand the situation on the ground and remember their basic economics. They realize how much damage drug prohibition is causing to civil society.

And here is a clue for you. If you can't keep drugs out of prison you are not going to keep them out of an open society.

The only question to be answered is how much additional damage do you want to cause to society by going through the motions of drug prohibition.

[Mike]

Neil,

When exactly was China a third world country? Isolationist, yes, but third world....not so much. Those opium smokers invented gun powder, and were not so far behind us on nukes you recall. Opium has been around a long, long time Neil, the British didn't introduce it to the Chinese, the opposite is true.
China, and most of Asia for that matter, is a throughly fucked up part of the world, but don't let your arrogance get ahead of you, they kicked our asses back below the 38th in Korea(with the help of narcotics, btw)So you might watch the name calling. Oh, and China was never part of the British Empire, unlike most of the rest of the world-how'd that happen? Its not like the British just left third world countries alone.

Besides, this thread is about police abuse of power, not drug legalization-something that effects the left and the right.

Jackass

[Naga Sadow]

Neil,

Why not place your telephone number on the thread like Dondero? When I use it to look up your address and make an unsubstantuated "tip" to your local police department, no worries right?

[Kolohe]

Naga-
Agreed. That was what I was trying to say in the last sentence.

When looking up the facts on the opium war - in wikipedia, of course - I found it interesting that the last paragraph of the 'war' section could have be written by Neil (and I'm guessing the chinese version of him)

[Neil\'s Spartan Ancestor]

PREPARE FOR GLORY!!!

[Naga Sadow]

A Chinese Neil? Too much my friend. LOL

[Untermensch]

I understand that they are also trying to poison Neil's precious bodily fluids...

[Steve U]

Neil: "...or how many tons of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin were stopped from polluting the minds of our countrymen."

Not to mention all the white women saved from the depradations of darkies/spics/chinks.

[ktc2]

"And the raids will undoubtedly continue."

Of course they will. Who's going to stop them? The only people who would benefit from stopping them are "we the people" and nobody in politics or the legal system gives a damn about them. They only pretend to close to elections.

The politicians and judges get to look "tough on crime".

The police get more neat gear, more power, more ill gained forfeiture money and get to play soldier against almost always defenseless people to boost their egos all with out any negative consequences to themselves (okay, except the EXTREMELY rare officer shooting).

So who is going to stop it?

[Michael Pack]

The Columbus PD had problems a few years ago.They involved in so many high speed chases and accidents over trivial matters.there were many people hurt and a few killed. What changed the policy wasn't public outrage,but,the insurance companies.They were getting stuck for the bill to repair the damage caused by the police.In Ohio,if a cop hits you and their at fault your insurance pays.Fully one half of all Ohio State Patrol accidents the trooper is at fault.Great training.

[DroneMonk]

We've graduated from crypto-fascist to proto-fascist.

All hail the state!

I will now set myself on fire...

[the innominate one]

Neil, you ignorant slut.

The difference is that murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc. are illegal because those behaviors infringe on the rights of others. Someone taking any kind of drug for recreational purposes does not, in and of itself, constitute violation of others' persons or property rights.

[mch]

"IN/TAC officers are trained for such raids and make eight to 12 a week across the city, police said."

8 to 12 such raids A WEEK? In one city in Ohio. That many a year in the country is worth a hard skeptical look.

[bigbigslacker]

I fail to see how people advocating free markets for drugs are "far-left". That would be the same plank that would like to outlaw or regulate cigarettes out of existence on the basis they are bad for you and the people selling them are inherently evil. Intolerance and sticking ones nose in everyone else's business is spread pretty evenly across the political spectrum. Unfortunately, those sorts seem to be drawn to certain professions.

[ktc2]

So what's the next step? If these situations are so dangerous what's next when this fails or because too dangerous FOR OFFICER SAFETY?

Just get a warrant, blow up the entire house without warning and sift through the rubble and bodies for evidence?

[ktc2]

So I guess far right would be subsidizing the drug industry?

Drug cartel welfare? (Pretty much what prohibition is)

And far left would be subsidizing drug buyers?

Pot stamps?

[Bart]

Hey, where the white women at?

[von Laue]

OH HAI GUYZ: If you argue with Neil, then you just really like to type words on the internet. There's no other serious reason to do what you're doing. He's a really obvious fake.

[Calidore]

Neil,

One argument you seem to be making is that the Qing dynasty stagnated because of the opium trade. What evidence do you have for this exactly? It is my understanding that China was stagnating long before the Opium Wars and that the outcome of the Opium Wars were merely a sympton of government policies which had led to economic stagnation in the 17th and 18th centuries. Do you have any evidence to counter my statement?

[Calidore]

Neil,

In other words, China stagnated in the 17th and 18th centuries in siginificant part because it curtailed trade with the outside world, because of overtaxation, and like measures. This also coincided with dramatic population growth and the pressures such brings to any society. Opium had little to do with it.

[Timmy]

"Just get a warrant, blow up the entire house without warning and sift through the rubble and bodies for evidence?"

Hell, why bother with a warrant? Just declare the suspects are enemy combatants and be done with it.

[Not A Fan]

"Neil" is performance art by--probably--VM.

No, there isn't enough of that Viking Moose vibe to be him. You know, the whole "letting random non sequitur shit plop out of my brain means I'm really creative" thing.

[ktc2]

Because obtaining the rubber stamp from some judge who never even looks at the papers involved makes it all "constitutional".

It'd be too much bother to get Bush (and cronies) to personally declare "enemy combatant" status on every poor household in the country.

[ktc2]

Oh wait, nm. Here is the next step:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354107,00.html

Of course the 9 inJustices of the SCOTUS will have to declare their use to not be a search, which they'll gladly due for the "war on drugs" and "officer safety", you know compelling interest of the state and all.

[J sub D]

J sub D - if you are just looking for instances where officers are charged, look no further than the Sean Bell case in NYC. Those cops were charged with manslaughter and reckless endangerment, if I'm not mistaken.

sv, I'd mometarily forgotten that. Now that you've kindly jogged my memory, I also recall that some accused the prosecution of throwing the game. As I wasn't in the courtroom, that's an interpretation I can neither honestly support nor oppose.

[ktc2]

J sub D,

I found it revealing that none of the cops wanted a JURY trial. I don't think they would have fared as well, even with today's perversley manipulated juries.

[Warmongering Lunatic]

Why the hell should it matter if they yelled "Police" or not? I imagine 4 out of 5 home-invasion robbers are perfectly capable of yelling "Police!" if they choose to. Properly identifying yourselves as police should require something more than yelling the word.

If you knock down someone's door and you get shot, well, that's just your fucking tough luck. If you don't want to be mistaken for a thug by an armed civilian, don't fucking act like one.

[Chris Potter]

Why the hell should it matter if they yelled "Police" or not? I imagine 4 out of 5 home-invasion robbers are perfectly capable of yelling "Police!" if they choose to. Properly identifying yourselves as police should require something more than yelling the word.

Sort of like a 100-pound woman driving along a dark, empty country road in the middle of the night is expected to pull over immediately for any unmarked car with flashing blue lights, or else risk being charged with resisting arrest.

It's funny how "safety of the officer" is seen as justification for giving police vast room for error in their duties, but no concept of "safety of innocent people" seems to be active to give 'civilians' leeway in their dealings with cops.

[Shirt]

re: Ktc2@4:51

...and of course it will become a felony offense to destroy them. Hell, they could deputize the little critters and make their destruction a capitol offense! They'll have grand funerals for them and hundreds of LEOs will attend to show their solidarity with their automated brothers in arms. The excuse that you thought it was a real spider, snake, etc. will be disrergarded.

[avocado diaboli]

"I imagine 4 out of 5 home-invasion robbers are perfectly capable of yelling "Police!" if they choose to."

Solution: Increase prison sentences for impersonating an officer.

[ktc2]

Shirt,

LOL. Yeah, it'll be like Minority Report with the spider things.

[ktc2]

A.D.,

Sounds like the police have solved the problem. By NOT yelling POLICE! or attempting to identify themselves in anyway the (illegal) thugs wont because it'd be a sure give away that they aren't cops.

[Chris Potter]

Shirt,

I think the rationale the SCOTUS has been using is that using an animal or device that can relay no information to officers besides the presence of an illegal substance or the occurrence of an illegal act is not a search for 4th amendment purposes.

You may disagree with that rationale, but it would seem to exclude streaming video from "spy"-ders.

[Michael Ejercito]

I stopped refering to it as a "justice system" many years ago Jim. I think we should all refuse to give it that bit of legitimacy in our discussions. It is now simply a "legal system" wherein the law no longer serves justice but is an end unto itself.

So why do you submit to it?

[Michael Ejercito]

What's the program for doing something about it?

Here is a few hints.

Our criminal justice system can not function without a financial system to pay the enforcers, roads and rails to bring in food to feed the enforcers, water treatment plants and aqueducts to provide the enforcers with clean water, sewage treatment plants to ensure that the enforcers live in a sanitary environment.

[J sub D]

It's funny how "safety of the officer" is seen as justification for giving police vast room for error in their duties, but no concept of "safety of innocent people" seems to be active to give 'civilians' leeway in their dealings with cops.

It's also funny that citizens are held to a higher standard in confusing, chaotic situations that those "highly trained professionals" are.

I though it was a gun. I didn't realize it was a remote control.

I though he was going for a weapon, I didn't realize he was grabbing a towel because he was standing there naked in the bathroom.

I shot the woman holding a baby because ...
Who knows what lame excuse will be trotted out in that one.

Highly trained professionals. Lte's give them automatic weapons, grenades and turm 'em loose on society.

[juris imprudent]

I shot the woman holding a baby because ...
Who knows what lame excuse will be trotted out in that one.

Will? Google "Lon Horiuchi".

[J sub D]

Will? Google "Lon Horiuchi".

Actually, I was referring to Tarika Wilson in Lima, Ohio. I decided to find out about the case since it came up. Now remember these two guys in Radley Balko's post are being charged with a felony, attempted murder. So let's find out about Tarika's killer, shall we?

From the Channel 24, an NBC affiliate in Toledo -

Sgt. Joseph Chavalia, the veteran officer who fired the fatal shot, pleaded not guilty to negligent homicide in Tarika Wilson's death and to negligent assault in the injuries to her 1-year-old son, whom she was holding. If convicted of both charges, the maximum penalty would be eight months in jail.

Wilson's family said the 26-year-old was an unarmed, innocent bystander in the SWAT raid. Her brother and the Lima NAACP office said Monday that the misdemeanor charges should have been more severe.

Citizens injure officers breaking into their home? Felony attempted murder.

Cop kills unarmed woman holding a baby? Misdemeanor negligent homicide.

As ktc2 pointed out, it's a legal system, about laws. Not a justice system.

[TB]

The Tree of Liberty is looking withered these days. It's time to water it.

[sv]

TB,
doesn't the rest of that go, "with the blood of patriots"?

[Travis]

Episiarch is right Neil is a fraud.

[Self Governor]

The difference between anarchy and a policestate is that with anrachy one knows that it is the right thing to open fire when masked men bust down one's door.

[johncjackson 3rd]

Of course its been a non-stop police SWAT PR barrage/victory parade ever since.

The "brave" officers who "saved" their fellow officers lives from these bad bad men, The local news riding along with the SWAT ( well actually called in/TAC or something like that)teams in their all-black unmarked paramilitary uniforms, the news anchors cheering on the home invasions along with bloodshed in iraq,- yeah I'd say the policy isn't going to change any time soon.

The perception is these tactics are needed to deal with these violent cop killing drug dealers...

[Elemenope]

doesn't the rest of that go, "with the blood of patriots"?

You catch on quick.

[Hat Pines]

Have any of you read post-apocalyptic fiction? they give great ideas on the conditions in which a police state can collapse into chaos.

[sv]

An important point is brought up by commenters who point out the media's fawning hero-worship of SWAT-cops and paramilitary tactics in dealing with suspects, and the public's seeming acceptance that in general law enforcement/judges 'know best' and have too many restrictions on them as it is (every action movie too, in the Dirty Harry vein) -- fear is mainstreamed in our society. the protectors (cops) are the only ones keeping the howling masses of suspects/crooks/sociopathic armed-to-the-teeth-psycho-killer-drug-dealers at bay. i think a common response to all this is probably, you see the danger of keeping guns in the home? if they didn't have guns then this wouldn't have happened in the first place. only the brave policemen should have guns.

[robc]

sv,

doesn't the rest of that go, "with the blood of patriots"?

Im pretty sure it is "with the blood of patriots and tyrants".

Important 2 words you left off. After all, they are who we are discussing.

[John C. Randolph]

how many tons of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin were stopped from polluting the minds of our countrymen.

Last I read, drug interdiction catches something like five percent of the drugs consumed in the USA. So, for all we spend and all the liberty we've lost, anyone who wants to scramble their brains can still do so.

It's time to end the war on drugs. There are far too many civilian casualties.

-jcr

[John C. Randolph]

If you can't keep drugs out of prison you are not going to keep them out of an open society.

IIRC, the only regime I know of that nearly succeeded in stamping out drugs was the Taliban in Afghanistan. If I have to choose between some of my neighbors offing themselves with drugs, or cops killing innocent people, I know which one I'd choose.

-jcr

[Aresen]

It's time to end the war on drugs. There are far too many civilian casualties.

-jcr

And that's the bloody shame of it. The cops no longer think of themselves as citizens, but as soldiers. In an occupying army.

[Cactus]

If they can't be held accountable by the justice system then they have to be discouraged by making these raids as costly as possible by ensuring that as many of the home invaders come out in body bags as possible. The first time an innocent home owner greases the entire entry team and it makes national news then maybe the situation will be addressed. As of now all of the whining and bitching isn't doing a damn bit of good. The politicians and generals in charge of the paramilitaries aren't listening and the courts don't seem to want to hold them accountable.

[Hat Pines]

This is right, Cactus. why should we even respect the authority of the courts? Without the sheriff they are nothing. It is clear that the sheriffs are enemies of America.

[sv]

robc,

good point. i forgot the full aphorism.

this conversation's veered off into less pragmatic territory, although the helplessness we feel at the hands (guns) of the state leaves us few alternatives. i'm waiting for some federal authority to do a God-like takeover of this particular URL and announce that we're all under investigation for sedition.

boo!

[Hat Pines]

this conversation's veered off into less pragmatic territory, although the helplessness we feel at the hands (guns) of the state leaves us few alternatives.
How are the Iraqi insurgents dealing with the tyranny?

[Paul]

Though initial reports say some illicit drugs were found

Well of course they did. Did we expect anything different?

[waylor]

"The fact that the dangerous Columbus PD gang was not trying to profit from their thefts but to destroy the stuff they stole for moral reasons is not a mitigating circumstance."

Actually, Tarran, I think they were trying to profit from their theft. The property forfeiture laws generally allow the stolen goods (the house, the money, the cars, etc.) to become the property of the felonious police department that confiscates them.

[VM]

Hi Epi -

"Kneel" is probably "Edweirdo" and that crowd. Maybe a Dan T incarnation - at least that is our speculation at URKOBOLD. but he's definitely performance art.

Thank you Radley for brining these stories to the light of day!!

[ktc2]

Cactus,

As I said earlier when these type raids become too dangerous for the cops they will simply move on to worse tactics. Tactics far more dangerous to innocent citizens all in the name of "officer safety".

[mediageek]

i'm waiting for some federal authority to do a God-like takeover of this particular URL and announce that we're all under investigation for sedition.

If you aren't on a government list somewhere, you're doing something wrong.

[Barack Hussein Obama]

Execute the pigs.

I approve this message.

[Bill]

I have had it with the double standard. Paramilitary cops breaking into some one's home get shot, which they richly deserve, and the citizen is prosecuted. Paramilitary cops breaking into some one's home shoot and kill handcuffed women and children laying on the floor and nothing is done to the swine at all. WTF, OVER!? If they are even charged, very rare, they always get off completely.

Being a cop is NOT a dangerous job, in fact police officer barely makes the top twenty for dangerous jobs in the US, so stop crying about how tough you have it and man up you sissies.

End the war on drugs and the crime rate in this country will go down over 80%, it is an infringement on your rights as a free person, why you nanny staters go along with this outrage, I will never understand.

[Uzziel]

In Soviet Amerika, the state *knocks* YOU!

-Uzziel-

[Danny]

"Yeah well, they commit all kinds of other crimes that are illegal too."

Begging the question, much? Of course crimes are illegal, and all things illegal are crimes. But if they are not a "crime" in the first place, then they shouldn't be illegal. Responsible drug users, aka responsible drinkers and drug users, are of no consequence to society. The crazies will always be here, but it looks like "Niel" has unfortunately skipped town.

[Marc]

"But the far-left legalization extremists like George Soros et. al never tell us how many raids go on every day without incidient, or how many tons of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin were stopped from polluting the minds of our countrymen."
Too bad. Now they'll have to go back to polluting their minds with government-supported alcohol.

Drugs are drugs. There is no rational reason that drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco are national pastimes, while using most other recreational drugs is a crime. It's simply a matter of irrational prejudice, racism, the greed of the pharmaceutical lobby, and the greed of the alcohol lobby.

Let's compare alcohol to marijuana. Alcohol is toxic, marijuana is non-toxic. Alcohol is physically addictive, marijuana is not physically addictive. Alcohol kills brain cells, marijuana does not kill brain cells. Alcohol destroys the liver. Marijuana has no effect on the liver. Alcohol precipitates acts of violence. Marijuana precipitates acts of silliness. Alcohol makes people think they can drive like Mario Andretti. Marijuana makes people think they are far more impaired than they really are, leading to driving slowly and cautiously.

Alcohol and tobacco, our government-approved recreational drugs, kill almost 600,000 Americans every year. In 5,000 years of recorded history, marijuana has never killed anyone.

It should be up to the individual which recreational drugs he chooses to use, not the government. When there are much healthier and safer alternatives to the recreational drugs of which the government approves, it makes the government complicit in the deaths of millions.