Breaking from Chesapeake

Local news station WVEC reports:

A document filed this afternoon in Chesapeake Circuit Court shows detectives found marijuana in the house on Redstart Avenue where Ryan Frederick lived.

[…]

The return on the search warrant Shivers attempted to serve was filed Wednesday. According to a document filed in Chesapeake Circuit Court, two hours after the shooting, police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan among other things at Frederick's home.

In a search affidavit, Det. K.S. Roberts wrote that a confidential informant told police Frederick was growing and selling marijuana in a detached garage at the house.

Officers did not report finding the "complex hydroponic watering system," packaging material and a digital scale they thought might be inside and part of a marijuana growing operation.

New information released from police Wednesday states Det. Shivers and the other narcotics officers involved in serving the search warrant at Frederick's home were all wearing body armor with the word "POLICE" displayed on the front of their covers, along with their police badges. Additionally, the officers were also wearing helmets with "POLICE" written on them.

A Chesapeake Police spokeswoman said the narcotics team knocked on Frederick's door and announced themselves as police before forcing their way inside.

They are not saying how much time they waited between the knock and attempting to enter the house.

A few questions: Why did it take nearly five days to get this information out? And why, if the informant claims to have seen the "complex hydroponic watering system" 72 hours prior to the raid, didn't they find any of that equipment? How much marijuana was found?  Was there a controlled buy, or was this raid done solely based on information provided by the informant?

Comments

[Bingo]

What kind of monster would bring lights, transformers, and a fan to a peaceful neighborhood?

Will someone please think of the children!

$5 says all they found was a bong and a dimebag.

[John-David]

"an undisclosed amount of marijuana" is certainly worth the trouble.

[jimmydageek]

Transformers? Joints in Disguise?

[jimmydageek]

As for "lights" - Are they enforcing the incandescent ban already?

[KenK]

"$5 says all they found was a bong and a dimebag."

Reason enough to shoot the perp down like a mad dog. After all, he also had lights!

[Episiarch]

It took them 5 days to come up with exactly what we knew they were going to say anyway?

Maybe they needed time to find something in the house that could remotely support the need for a raid. I'm surprised that they didn't build a hydroponic unit in the garage. They had 5 days.

[gorak]

Any word on what the suspect says the cops were wearing?

[Timon19]

It took them 5 days to answer the very basic questions that were raised in Hit & Run, both in the original post and the comments, almost in the order they were brought up?

Hmm...

[Episiarch]

Another thing that always gets me is that they always claim they announced. Not only is it almost impossible to verify, I have noticed that in many of Radley's stories where there are neighbor witnesses, they all always say there was no announcement.

And realistically, why would they announce and lose the element of surprise? Easier just to lie about it later.

[Nate]

Any word from the suspect whatsoever?

[Taktix?]

I know why it took so long.

When the cops don't find anything, they have to get a template response like the one above faxed to them from the Fraternal Order of Police. Coincidentally, that same day Officer Dumblefuck got a jelly donut jammed in the fax machine, thinking it was a toaster. It took the rest of the department four days to figure out why their faxes were coming out all purple.

[Jack]

Nate, he's being otherwise occupied having the shit whomped out of them

[Steve Verdon]

What exactly are these transformers? This sounds weird...unless his house is wired for something like 66kV.

[Isaac Bartram]

Any word from the suspect whatsoever?

Not if he's getting remotely competent legal counsel.

[Nate]

good point

[Brian Courts]

Why did it take nearly five days to get this information out?

Well, as I said yesterday:

Looks like it's taking the police a little longer than they had expected to dig up all the "drugs, hydroponic equipment, or drug paraphernalia" that they um... "found" at the site. They probably had to call around to neighboring jurisdictions for help when they realized their reach had exceeded their grasp with this ambitious warrant.

I'd guess they finally realized that they had to say something after five days and since they still had not been able to round up all the stuff they would have "found", they had to go with "finding" only what they had available in the police stash that night - as someone said, a dime-bag and a bong (I bet one of the cops had to run down to Home Depot or something for a couple heat lamps).

[Nate]

What the hell is up with the shoe? Just one shoe? This is surreal.

[Warren]

police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan among other things at Frederick's home.

This is cryptic. An "undisclosed" amount of marijuana decodes to one or two roaches in the ashtray. Six lights? What kind of lights? If we're talking six 1000 watt High Pressure Sodium lights, then yeah, that's enough to fill a garage. Smoking devices decodes to bong and a roach clip. And what about that fan? Are we talking oscillating fan to strengthen stems and prevent mold from growing plants, or a 250 cfm Blower to remove the heat from those 6 kilowatt lamps?

It sounds as though there just might be a sizable grow-op here. But then why no mention of gallons of fertilizer/nutrients, water pumps, reservoirs, etc.

[jimmydageek]

New information released from police Wednesday states Det. Shivers and the other narcotics officers involved in serving the search warrant at Frederick's home were all wearing body armor with the word "POLICE" displayed on the front of their covers, along with their police badges. Additionally, the officers were also wearing helmets with "POLICE" written on them.

Based on previous articles, I was under the impression that shots were fired before Mr. Frederick had a chance to SEE that they were cops

So, which is it?

What about the reports that they were plain-clothed undercover cops?

Too much contradicting stuff here.

[Taktix?]

Wait a minute, so this guy had spare lights and mechanical equipment in his garage?

Hang em!

[Andrew]

To copy what I said in the previous discussion...

From the article: The return on the search warrant Shivers attempted to serve was filed Wednesday. According to a document filed in Chesapeake Circuit Court, two hours after the shooting, police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan among other things at Frederick's home.

Most likely translation: one joint, 6 desk lamps, three power strips, an old bong, and a couple of ceiling fans.

[sage]

What exactly are these transformers? This sounds weird...unless his house is wired for something like 66kV.

Nah, it's what you would expect. The transformers are actually ballasts which are required in the use of HID (high intensity discharge) lamps. Chances are this guys had two types: Metal Halides for the growth cycle, and High Pressure Sodium for the flowering part. You commonly see both types of these lamps lighting parking lots and places like Home Dept and Costco. They cost a lot when firing up, but they are very efficient in how much light you get per watt of power.

[Brian Courts]

What about the reports that they were plain-clothed undercover cops?

I'd bet that report was wrong. The chance to play soldier and use all their military-type gear with body armor and helmets against a non-violent, non-threatening, "easy" (oops) target is just too much to resist. That's the reason all the sensible options for serving a warrant and searching the home (like waiting until the guy leaves, arresting him, then simply walking in, etc.) are never used. They want the rush of excitement that comes with a military type raid.

Of course these guys are typically, less than heroic, shall we say, (see Columbine) so they'd prefer to only hit "soft" targets like senior-citizen poker players, but sometimes they misjudge the level or resistance (or, more likely, they're just incompetent and a single, startled homeowner turns out to be a much better shot than these goons with their night-vision gogles and semi-automatic rifles).

[Reinmoose]

Thank goodness they raided his house!
I always knew those reefer fiends to be violent!

[Eryk Boston]

I'd be interested to see a study of how many drug related items (foil, lithium batteries, cold meds) can be found in the average household.

[FrBunny]

"Are we talking oscillating fan to strengthen stems and prevent mold from growing plants, or a 250 cfm Blower to remove the heat from those 6 kilowatt lamps?"

[Plans long weekend at Warren's place. Packs Cheetos.]

[Monkey Of Fear]

Just a quick note . . . I am actually a resident of the City of Chesapeake. I am in the military, a recent transplant to the area, arriving here in October. So, I can speak with just a smidgeon of authority about local matters here.
What I can say is this: Chesapeake has the reputation in the greater Hampton Roads area as being generally low-crime as compared to neighboring cities like Portsmouth or Norfolk. The first thing I noticed about Chesapeake, and it never ceases to amaze me, is the ubiquitous police presence. You pass a police vehicle every thirty seconds while driving down side streets in the area of Great Bridge. Granted, city hall and the local jail is nearby. But the presence fans out from there and continues throughout the entire region. I have frequently wondered why there were so many damn police patrolling residential neighborhoods, ones where the average home value exceeds $300,000. It truly looks and feels like a mini-police state. Being in the military, I have lived in communities all across the nation, and I have never observed anything remotely like the overwhelming police presence in this city. Just an observation from a Chesapeake resident . . .

[GILMORE]

holy sheet

A whole day, and ONLY ONE RON PAUL RELATED POST????

I have been to the mountaintop, and I have seen the promised land!

[Monkey Of Fear]

Just a quick addendum to the above post . . . I know that there may be many ready replies to my observation about police patrolling in well-to-do neighborhoods. However, I must say that the police presence is thorough and basically uniform throughout the area: rich, middle-class, and even the few small pockets of poorer neighborhoods.

[Alice Bowie]

Keep Dope Alive !!!

[Episiarch]

I have frequently wondered why there were so many damn police patrolling residential neighborhoods, ones where the average home value exceeds $300,000.

I lived in Montgomery, NY, in Orange County for a while. Exactly the same. Wealthy town at the very edges of a non-insane commute to NYC. Cops everywhere. There were: Village of Montgomery cops, Town of Montgomery cops, Orange County Sheriff cops, and State cops.

[PoliceLink]

I know. I know. You're all hella disappointed that the discussion thread where we kick your worthless civilian butts has been closed down.

But do not despair. We bemoan your lack of respect here:

I am offended that so many "claim" to support LE and disregard everything ask of them , I am offended that civilians appear ignorant and can't seam to follow the most basic instruction * If Your not a cop, don't post in ask a cop* . ..I am offended that "supporters" can't figure out the best way to "support" these LEO's is to do as we are asked .

We drum out others who do not fit here:

CalTom is some liberal hippie from CA who wants the criminals to be treated nicely and patted on the head. In his spare time he creates new indentities on PoliceLink.

And, inspired by the death of Heath Ledger, we have some friendly police thoughts for Ms Spears here:

and in some cases they truely believe they are above the law! I seriosuly think we should put Britany down. She needs to be uthinized (sp??)

Protect and serve. Protect and serve. Learn to spell.

In that order.

[GILMORE]

Eryk Boston | January 23, 2008, 5:13pm | #
I'd be interested to see a study of how many drug related items (foil, lithium batteries..

Uh.

Lithium batteries??

hmm.

Electro-dope?

Serious, I dont have the first clue. People zap themselves for kicks? What the fuck would one do with lithium batteries?

Kids these days. I used to think i was hep with 'grass' and 'ex' etc. For all i know toad-licking is back in fashion

[Episiarch]

For all i know toad-licking is back in fashion

Give up the toad now/ooh ooh ooh

[NoStar]

The purpose of the second search was to plant evidence not found during the first search.

[Eryk Boston]

Gilmore, they are used in making crystal meth. My point was that most households are loaded with things that are used in making or using drugs and I'd be curious as to any precise studies that have been done.

[zig zag man]

"They want the rush of excitement that comes with a military type raid."

...and the added benefit of being able to stack on more charges if the suspect resists or defends himself. There FIFY.

"My point was that most households are loaded with things that are used in making or using drugs and I'd be curious as to any precise studies that have been done."

Probably not, for the same reason that a gun which was not used in the sale of drugs could be used to stack on more charges, everything can be used as parapherna or to produce drugs and everyone is a suspect. New professionalism and all you know.

[zig zag man]

paraperna = paraphernalia

[Dello]

I'm my day, all a cop had to do was throw down a dime bag and call it good. These days they have to throw down the entire grow operation...

[bill]

Meanwhile, items missing from the Chesapeake Police evidence room, "marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan".

[zig zag man]

Miltary style no knock raids are designed to annoy, harrass, humiliate and do anything to show the proles that the police control them. There's nothing they can do about it short of an on the spot death sentence from the jack boots for defending themselves or the judge for killing a cop.

[matt]

say what you will, but at least this doesnt seem like a personal-usage case. regardless of sophisticated equipment or whatever, he had a grow operation in his garage. besides being a dumb idea it happens to currently be illegal.

don't get me wrong I'm not saying a frickin swat team should have been sent into his house. but this isn't exactly grandma curing her glaucoma.

[J sub D]

don't get me wrong I'm not saying a frickin swat team should have been sent into his house. but this isn't exactly grandma curing her glaucoma.

Just to be contrary, when ... my friend sold marijuana, he didn't consider himsrlf a lawbreaker. He thought he was performing a public service. He considered himself a patriotic, moral American, every bit as good as Grandma. At least, that's what he told me.

[Al Federber]

"...it happens to currently be illegal."

What isn't?

[R C Dean]

police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan among other things at Frederick's home

Officers did not report finding the "complex hydroponic watering system," packaging material and a digital scale they thought might be inside and part of a marijuana growing operation.

This is consistent with someone running a three-light rig (you use one set of lights for growing, then switch them out for flowering, who has either stopped growing or between crops. Probably stopped, since he doesn't seem to have the hydro rig anymore, but I'm not sure why he kept the lights. Still, the lights, even the hydro rig, are perfectly legal. Not to mention the fan. If I'm the DA, I'm not happy with my chances of hanging anything more than a minor possession case on this guy.

I can't believe they didn't find any "packaging material". The guy didn't have a single ziploc sandwich bag in the house?

[Brian Courts]

say what you will, but at least this doesnt seem like a personal-usage case. regardless of sophisticated equipment or whatever, he had a grow operation in his garage.

I don't see how that is relevant. So what if he's using it himself, growing it for himself, growing it for himself and friends, or growing it to sell to others not able to grow it so they can enjoy it too? The fact that such behavior is illegal is absurd in the first place, but none of those things seems worthy of any moral distinction, so why bother to point it out?

besides being a dumb idea it happens to currently be illegal.

Well, for one thing, it seems the reason one might call it "dumb" is precisely because it is illegal and not worth the risk of getting caught. So what else "besides" that fact makes it dumb? Of course even if it is dumb for a reason other than its its illegality, that would have no moral bearing on the issues at hand, so again, what is the point of mentioning it?

don't get me wrong I'm not saying a frickin swat team should have been sent into his house. but this isn't exactly grandma curing her glaucoma.

Agreed, and so what?

[R C Dean]

say what you will, but at least this doesnt seem like a personal-usage case.

One light rig? Sure, personal use. Three? Tough sell.

[Taktix?]

Just to be contrary, when ... my friend sold marijuana, he didn't consider himsrlf a lawbreaker. He thought he was performing a public service. He considered himself a patriotic, moral American, every bit as good as Grandma. At least, that's what he told me.

There's something to be said for civil disobedience, no?

[Richard Grieco]

Another PloiceLink thread to curl your toes:

What if you were sitting in your Investigation Principles class and another student that is in that class walks by smelling like marijuana? And she or he sitsw down and ask the person beside her if she smells like weed, and the person says yes. The smoker then rubs lotion on hands in an attempt to cover the smell. What would you do?

http://www.policelink.com/discussions/32/topics/7763

[Steve Verdon]

One light rig? Sure, personal use. Three? Tough sell.

Actually in reading R C Dean's comment that isn't how I read it, that the different lights are used at different times. I defer to others expertise on this one, tho'.

[J sub D]

There's something to be said for civil disobedience, no?

I thought so. It wasn't that profitable but ... my friend smoked for free. Not exactly the kind of thing they would have sent a SWAT team in on during the '70s. In some ways, that was a saner time.

[Andrew]

I'm at work and can't look through Radley's archives, but didn't he once report on a case where someone was shot by raiding cops who later said they found all kinds of drug paraphernalia, which turned out to be plastic sandwich bags and the like?

[Isaac Bartram]

If I'm the DA, I'm not happy with my chances of hanging anything more than a minor possession case on this guy.

Doesn't much matter. The State has a lock on the murder one rap. Unless he gets extremely good representation (unlikely) and an unbiased jury (again unlikely) Ryan Frederick is going to die.

And there will be people cheering - dancing in the streets, even - for his death.

Two pointless deaths. I'm done.

[Isaac Bartram]

Andrew

I don't know about anywhere else, but in Florida, those arrested with routine possession are also charged with possession of "drug paraphernalia" for the baggy that the pot was in.

I guess it lets them make it look more serious that way.

[Nate]

Its only civil disobedience if you are trying to get caught. Nothing but love for your dope-selling friend but MLK he ain't.

[bob]

The saddest thing about this story is that it won't be the last time innocent lives are destroyed or lost in our insane prohibition of marijuana.

There are no winners in the war on (some) drugs. Only victims.

[OrpheusRed]

"It sounds as though there just might be a sizable grow-op here."

Or the guy was into reef-keeping as all those bits are standard kit when keeping coral. I'd wager on a grow op honestly; but you never know. Reef-keepers are a little funny in the head.

[Typographers for Sobriety]

Alice Bowie | January 23, 2008, 5:21pm | #

Keep Dope Alive !!!

Oh.

That explains it.

[LevStrauss]

Seems like a simple shakedown. Of course its an undisclosed amount. The weight always gets lighter from the dealer to the evidence locker. Nobody apparently complains during their trial that there was indeed more drugs than reported. Go figure. Now cash, I've never heard anything about that.

[Troy]

I don't care if he was growing it. Someone is dead because a stupid laws are being brutally enforced. What ends justifies this means?

I like how our legal system can, with the straightest of faces, actually entertain the argument that having big "Police" letters written all over you makes the slightest difference.

I hate to get all quantum on everyone but the fact is that there is only a probability that the folks knocking down are cops. So they expect me to collapse my wave function as quickly as it happens in real life. The legal system will actually entertain reaquiring me to make an accurate, instantaneous measurement on reality when I am at most epistemlogically vulnerable. Well, yet another reason to have contempt. THIS is why I do drugs!

[Troy]

Sorry about the indefinite article.

[LevStrauss]

But yeah this guy is completely fucked. Funny how marijuana itself doesn't kill anyone but many die around it. Black markets kill. You want to make something real profitable, make it illegal and your profit margins skyrocket and creates incentive for this kind of business. Beer distributors don't shoot at each other anymore and the country is better because of it. With alcohol prohibition we had harmful moonshine and hard liquor ruled over beer because it was easier to transport. Now we have crack and meth. Prohibition doesn't just create the deadly black markets, it also makes the product more harmful and expensive for the consumer in addition to more addictive in many cases. Add that to the fact that there is no victim in the suspected crime, and now there are two. This is what we suck money out of the economy to pay for?

[Ken Hagler]

"...police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers, smoking devices and a fan among other things at Frederick's home."

Looking around my apartment, I see six lights (seven if you include the one the kitchen area that I don't use and hasn't got a lightbulb), a fan in the AC unit built into the wall, and too many transformers to count.

Oh, and as a photographer, I also have a whole bunch of lithium batteries.

[zig zag man]

"Prohibition doesn't just create the deadly black markets, it also makes the product more harmful and expensive for the consumer in addition to more addictive in many cases. Add that to the fact that there is no victim in the suspected crime, and now there are two. This is what we suck money out of the economy to pay for?"

Another consequence of the war on some drugs is the fact that cannabis users are singled out in drug testing because it stays in ones system for an extended period of time.

Because of this, many people are taking jobs which require no drug testing or working off the books and are making less taxable income and therefore paying less in taxes. The ax cuts both ways.

Marginalizing productive and hard working cannabis users actually hurts the economy as well as creating problems due to the black market.

[Andrew]

Now that I'm home from work and could take out my copy of Overkill, I've found what I was talking about earlier. It's the Clayton Helriggle case that Radley describes in detail. To quote him:

"Immediately after the raid, police told
local reporters that they'd found marijuana,
pills, weapons, drug paraphernalia, and drug
"packaging materials" at the home. The pills
proved to be a bottle of prescribed codeine.
The weapons were Helriggle's legal handgun,
an old shotgun, and a .22-caliber rifle, not
particularly unusual for an Ohio farmhouse.
The "packaging materials" turned out to be a
box of sandwich bags. And police found less
than an ounce of marijuana. No charges were
filed against any of the house's occupants." (Overkill, page 72)

[Bill Cooke]

I think it is funny that these cops have a page dedicated to "respect" as if we have some sort of an obligation to respect them. I remember not too long ago when I was a prosecutor in Baltimore. I had a crazy home invasion case. The cops on the scene did not initially believe the victims and threatened to arrest them for filing a false complaint. Eventually a detective was assigned, only (I'm convinced) because one of the victim's was the sister of a detective. The detective assigned did virtually nothing and when I asked him to do more for the case he accused me of "disrespecting him." I told an older retired cop who worked for my office about this. He laughed and said "respect? Gangsters care about respect." Good cops do their jobs and don't bitch and moan.
ps - check out my link. I have a book there and despite my problems with some police it is dedicated to the Baltimore City Police Department.

[juris imprudent]

Yeah, well the cops in Atlanta claimed to have found dope in Kathryn Johnston's home too.

Oh, that certainly was cynical, wasn't it?

[Bill Cooke]

The problem is it is hard to know what to believe. Cops are capable of lying. Trust me. But then again they usually don't. I am a bit disturbed that it took so long to release these "facts." I would want to hear from the defendant (although of course he doesn't have to say a word) and any other witnesses. There was one report that he shot through a shut door. Even if he suspected that the person on the other side was a burglar he still should not have shot without knowing and if true that could make it manslaughter or even 2d murder(although that may be a stretch). On the cop site everyone is jumping to the conclusion that this guy is guilty of 1d murder and should be executed. We should be careful about jumping to the opposite conclusion. Still, that doesn't mean that we still can't condemn the war on drugs and police raid tactics in general.

[Les]

Bill,

Baltimore, huh? What's your opinion of "The Wire?"

[Bill Cooke]

I'm a humble civil servant. I can't afford HBO.

[M]

I'm a humble civil servant.

And I'm reactionary as regards genetic engineering, but this ^ prompts me to set up a cloning lab in my garage and issue a very specific invitation 😉

[Les]

Bill,

Good answer!

[Magic Fluke]

BREAKING NEWS: Janet Reno was spotted racing to the scene in an M1 Abrams tank with a "Free David Koresh" bumper sticker on the turret. According to unconfirmed reports, she was disguised as Romanian weight lifter, Valeriu Calancea.

[Fluffy]

Its only civil disobedience if you are trying to get caught. Nothing but love for your dope-selling friend but MLK he ain't.

MLK? No. John Brown? Maybe a little.

"Civil disobedience" is for hippies who think they're Thoreau. I respect people who simply break unjust laws and then try to evade or resist their enforcement more than I respect some yuppie or college student getting arrested for a misdemeanor for laying down in front of an embassy somewhere. That's not resistance; that's a fantasy camp. A sightseeing trip to the booking desk.

This guy didn't like the law, so he broke it. That's definitely better than blogging somewhere about how drugs should be legal. And it's a lot better than my own, personal, feeble little posture of complaint against the establishment.

[jtr]

Gosh, when the truth starts coming out you all sit back and deny it all. You all live in a dream world of drugs and hate. Grow up this is the real world, and a real police officer lost his real life in this criminal case. Justice will be served at the trial.

[ee]

police found an undisclosed amount of marijuana, six lights, three transformers,

You'll take my transformers from cold dead hands;)

Why is there a specific accounting for the lights and transfomers, but not the plants?

I have a lot more than six lights and three transformers in my detatched garage.

And I am not sure how transformers fit into this. You can provide enough light to grow plants with 120V outlet power. Perhaps the lights were industrial grade and required 240 or 480VAC. This could indicate a commercial growing operation. But anyone patient and sophisticated enough to invest in industrial grade equipment for their illegal farm would likely have surveillance camaras also.

[ee]

Justice will be served at the trial.

The DA will argue for the death penalty and offer nothing less than LWOP. A jury might not have the power to dispense justice.

[Dr. No]

Great one man lost his life and another is going to be serving some hard time in a pound me in the ___ prison. All this for a undisclosed amount of marijuana, grow lights and some drug paraphernalia. Next time the cops should wait for the guy to leave his house and pick him up at work or somewhere else, so he doesn't think someone is trying to break into his house. Or better yet lets just end this stupid war on drugs. We can be doing better stuff with the money we are spending on the cops. And I sure as hell don't like wasting all this money housing people in prison when they haven't really hurt anyone and they could be out working for a living.

[LibertyPlease]

Looking around my apartment, I see six lights (seven if you include the one the kitchen area that I don't use and hasn't got a lightbulb), a fan in the AC unit built into the wall, and too many transformers to count.

Oh, and as a photographer, I also have a whole bunch of lithium batteries.

Were do you live?

[bring the MP5s too, how do I look in this thigh holster? Really, just like the guys in the sandbox? 🙂 Lets roll out!! ]

[Mikestermike]

The real secret is that they found Go-bots, not actual Transformers.

Was it Megatron or Shockwave that turned into a bong?

I guess its evident that there wasn't a Transformer that hid among humans as a hydroponics setup....

[ee]

Was it Megatron or Shockwave that turned into a bong?

I regret being a patsy to the WOD. A few years ago I tossed away a hand-made pottery bong shaped like an antique AT&T telephone.

[DavidS]

So the guy's given an interview to the local TV station in which he:

-Admits smoking pot and that there was some in the house.

-Didn't know who was breaking in: "I didn't know what to do. I don't know what happened. I didn't know. I just wish I had known it was the police coming in."

-Shot at police after they broke down the door.: "When that door busted down, I grabbed my gun and started firing...I didn't know who I was shooting."

-Is co-operating with the police.

[R C Dean]

Actually in reading R C Dean's comment that isn't how I read it, that the different lights are used at different times.

As I piece it together, he had three ballasts and six lights. That adds up to a three-light set up, since you can use the same ballast to run both the growing and the flowering lights.

Trust me on this. 😉

Although, a serious commercial op would be using 1000 watt lamps, and I think you may need different ballasts for the different types of lights.

And there's sure a lot missing from the list of seized stuff if there was an active growing operation.

Grow up this is the real world, and a real police officer lost his real life in this criminal case. Justice will be served at the trial.

Maybe. In my mind, it all comes down to whether the police were justified in kicking his door down, and announced themselves so that anyone inside the house would have had no doubt that it was the cops. If they didn't, I'd vote for self-defense.

[Dave W.]

Maybe. In my mind, it all comes down to whether the police were justified in kicking his door down, and announced themselves so that anyone inside the house would have had no doubt that it was the cops. If they didn't, I'd vote for self-defense. (emphasis added)

I am not sure I understand this. In the above quote did you mean --or-- where you said "and" or did you really mean --and--?

[Bruce Symington]

Dave W: And means and, Or means or. You must be a cop or a wannabe. If either of those two requirements was not met, and I mean provably met, as in video, the citizen was innocent and his actions entirely justifiable. Anyone who believes anything a cop says is a fool.

[John-David]

I hope Fred Phelps can make his way to Chesapeake in time.

[J sub D]

Grow up this is the real world, and a real police officer lost his real life in this criminal case.

Yep, it's sad that a cop got killed in the War on Drugs Sanity. Who could have forseen that smashing into somebody's house in the middle of the night, screaming and doing the level best to create confusion, would result in somebody fearing for their life, and opening fire.

I don't know where you live, but armed home invasions occur in Detroit. Not just the cops, the bad guys do it too. People get killed. Tied up and shot in the back of the head. You think the bad guys might be yelling "POLICE" in an attempt to avoid resistance? You think you are cool headed enough to awake from a sound sleep and immediately determine if they're cops or criminals?

Justice will be served at the trial.

Do you really believe that?

[Nick]

DavidS | January 24, 2008, 6:18am | #

So the guy's given an interview to the local TV station in which he:

-Admits smoking pot and that there was some in the house.

-Didn't know who was breaking in: "I didn't know what to do. I don't know what happened. I didn't know. I just wish I had known it was the police coming in."

-Shot at police after they broke down the door.: "When that door busted down, I grabbed my gun and started firing...I didn't know who I was shooting."

-Is co-operating with the police.

If this is all true, this man has the best lawyer ever. I always wondered why people don't just admit what actually happened, that they didn't know police were coming in, they were scared, they were trying to defend their home, and that yes they light up once in a while like many people do and have done and are not hardened criminals. This will not only save him from execution, but might let him off with much less of a sentence. Surely, he'll get something, but without this, he's likely dead.

[Nick]

Monkey of Fear, it makes sense for a well-to-do town near a crime-ridden city to want a large police presence. It makes it less likely that the crime will spill over into the town. And the town can afford it because of their tax revenues.

Thieves like to take money from people who have it and if there is little resistence in the neighboring town, where no one knows your face, wouldn't you consider that a prime location to steal from and escape back to your own neighborhood? Now, you might reconsider if there are lots of cops around with nothing better to do than stop you.

[Cracker\'s Boy]

Jury nullification.

CB

[Dave W.]

Dave W: And means and, Or means or. You must be a cop or a wannabe. If either of those two requirements was not met, and I mean provably met, as in video, the citizen was innocent and his actions entirely justifiable.

I am confused by what RCD means when he says, "if they didn't [then its a good shoot]" -- specifically how that maps onto his previous sentence. I see three plausible alternatives:

A. If they didn't have justification and they didn't announce effectively, then its a good shoot.

OR

B. If they didn't have justification or they didn't announce effectively, then its a good shoot.

OR

C. Regardless of whether they had justification, if they didn't announce effectively, it is a good shoot.

I think maybe RCD meant C, but that is not clear from his text. My own personal opinion is that option C is the best way to look at it. This may be one of those times when I agree with RCD, but if he meant option A or option B, then I would want to consider that. Much as I am always teaching T., RCD occasionally teaches me.

[R C Dean]

In the above quote did you mean --or-- where you said "and" or did you really mean --and--?

I meant "and". Certainly, if the accused had a reasonable belief that the people kicking down his door weren't cops, then he should have a lay-down self-defense claim.

And, if the raid wasn't justified, then it was unconstitutional and the police weren't acting within their authority. At that point, and I doubt the law is clearly on my side, I still think he's justified in shooting, and I would vote for acquittal. Kind of an "exclusionary rule" deal - the police shouldn't get the benefit for unconstitutional exercises of power.

[R C Dean]

I meant "and".

Arrgh. I meant "or".

[Dave W.]

got it, thnx.

[tarran]

RC Dean,

Actually until about a hundred years ago, the law was on your side.

There was a case where a homeowner shot a policmean who entered his property without a warrant, and the Supreme court ruled taht without the warrant the officer was merely a tresspasser who had unlawfully entered the property.

Of course, all of this could be avoided by respecting the Castle doctrine. when a warrant is served, the police are supposed to do the minimum of damage possible.

In other words, you walk up to the door, and ring the bell. when the guy answers, you hand him a copy of the warrant, explain to him why you're there, and ask him to let you in.

Many of the violent deaths surrounding police work can be traced to the violence of Shock-and-Awe dynamic entries that seem to be in vogue today.

[el profesor er?tico]

This is new...

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7758590&nav=menu45_2_10

Jailhouse interview with the poor guy...

I would love to be on his jury.

[mediageek]

Gosh, when the truth starts coming out you all sit back and deny it all. You all live in a dream world of drugs and hate. Grow up this is the real world, and a real police officer lost his real life in this criminal case. Justice will be served at the trial.

Not hardly. A cop lost his life, and a citizen will have his ruined simply because he chose to grow a plant in his garage.

You have to be a lunatic to think it's justified for the police to execute no-knock warrants over something so patently idiotic as a plant.

[bigbigslacker]

"Now, you might reconsider if there are lots of cops around with nothing better to do than stop you."

If I were thinking about robbing some houses, I'd be more worried about an armed home owner, a neighbor (like the guy in Texas who recently blew away two thieves), and then a dog, in that order. My assumption would be the police will most likely NOT just happen to be driving by while I'm creeping in or out of the window. For somebody who is one robbery away from living on the street, being jailed by the police is about the best bad outcome.

[Nick]

slacker, if you were thinking about robbing houses would you go to the quiet wealthy neighborhood with no police presence or the quiet wealthy neighboorhood with a noticeable police presence? All it takes is one home invasion in an otherwise peaceful town for the police force to be doubled or tripled. My suggestion is a migratory lifestyle if home invasion becomes your occupation.

Besides, it makes the neighborhood FEEL safer, hence the expenditure.

[Steve Verdon]

If I were thinking about robbing some houses, I'd be more worried about an armed home owner, a neighbor (like the guy in Texas who recently blew away two thieves), and then a dog, in that order.

Really, you sure about that ordering? I have a rottweiler and and American pit bull terrier, but no gun. The dogs are always home....

[bigbigslacker]

I'm gonna have to come clean and admit I really have not given enough thought to what I should be looking for on my next home invasion;)

Feeling safer is probably key here. At some point I would expect the annual cost of the extra police protection meets or exceeds the annual loss to thievery, not that anyone was arguing to the contrary. I tend to think many ("many" - is that gutless or what?) thieves like to rob whatever they can that is close to home, but, yeah, given the choice it does seem they would prefer the area with less police presence. That is, unless the houses with more cops in the neighborhood had all the really cool stuff in them.

[el profesor er?tico]

Ryan now has a lawyer - James O. Broccoletti.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/im-not-murderer-they-make-me-out-be

[G]

I actually know Ryan and alot about the story, as well as one of the many reasons he thought he was being broken into. 3 weeks prior one of our friends mothers that lived nearby (2 streets over) to ryan had a home invasion happen, Our friends mother was in the house with others when two armed gunnmen kicked in her door and robbed her at gunpoint right at christmas. Then a week or so later Ryans shed had been broken into. So when the cop did not knock on the door and announce himself (ryans dogs were going crazy)and ryan heard them kicking at the door he immediatly thought about the other incidents and thought he was being robbed. i'm not making excuses for him but i understand where is mindset was. Ryan was not into drugs really or anything major. He did smoke pot but only personally and did not deal it or use other hard drugs. So he would not have thought about it being the police at his door. This is very unfotunate and my heart goes out to the officers family but this incident could have been avoided and handeled differently, the police should have announced themselves, the officer that was shot had on plain clothes and a vest but it hapened so fast Ryan did not see the other cops outside that had police written on them or the mans badge around his neck. I don't believe he should be charged with first degree murder, involuntary manslauter would be more correct of a charge. The origional warrent was on the word a snitch trying to get him some leaneancy and thought he knew something but was wrong on his assumption.
Police seized marijuana, lights, five tub containers, a smoking device, a fan, books and magazines and a pay stub during the search of Ryans home.
As for the lights and containers the police found, Ryan was growing a banana tree as a hobby and was learning how to grow Japanese maple trees to plant in his yard and thats a fact.