Militarization of Police

Kenneth Jamar

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Jamar is a Huntsville, Alabama man who suffers from severe gout, has survived two heart attacks, has a pacemaker, and is hard of hearing. He miraculously survived a botched SWAT raid on his home in 2006, in which police broke down his door, broke open his bedroom door, then opened fire on him when he mistook them for criminal intruders, and met them with a gun. The raid put him in intensive care for two weeks, and nearly killed him.

Federal and state officials were actually looking for Jamar's nephew, who lived a few houses down. The nephew was so obviously dangerous, police eventually arrested him in his front yard, without incident, when he came out to watch them drive his uncle away in an ambulance. The police insisted the raid went exactly as planned, and subsequent investigations exonerated everyone involved.

The police reports say Jamar met them with "aggressive resistance," which they "neutralized" by shooting him twice in the chest, once in the groin, and once in the foot. Family members described Jamar as a semi-invalid who "couldn't get up to make himself a ham sandwich."

Jamar is now suing. But he's having some difficulty with his lawsuit. Not because it lacks merit, but because the city of Huntsville is refusing to turn over any documents related to the case, including those associated with the internal investigation. The city claims the documents are "too sensitive" for public consumption, and that the city is protected by an "executive privilege" claim in Alabama's state constitution. Doesn't seem like the kind of posture the city would strike if it had nothing to hide.

A judge will rule on the matter later this week.

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  1. The city claims the documents are “too sensitive” for public consumption…

    Unless they turn to ash spontaneously on contact with sunlight, I’m gonna go ahead and call bullshit.

  2. Keep it up, Radley.

    Drip drip drip.

  3. ..when he mistook them for criminal intruders..

    Anyone who doesn’t knock and nor is invited in is a criminal intruder. In the War on Citizens we gotta start fighting back….

  4. Bah, just another isolate incident, like the one yesterday and the one before that, and those several last month and quite a few last year and….

  5. Jamar, Jamar…

    What’s that, Polish? Scots-Irish?

    Oh, no, bad joe! We need to be color-blind and pretend not to know that!

  6. They shot 16 bullets and only hit him 4 times. I mean, I’m glad that Mr Jamar isn’t dead, but why do we give these imbeciles guns if they are poor shots in addition to being trigger happy?

  7. Radley, I’m a cosmopolitan, urban McArdle-reading kind of libertairan–how are you so good at making me want to go buy guns and live in the woods

  8. Hiding behind excutive privilage. Wonder where they got that idea?

  9. Another good story on the topic. I’m curious about:

    The nephew [the suspect actually sought] was so obviously dangerous, police eventually arrested him in his front yard, without incident

    Where does the info on the police decision come from? The first Lima thread from yesterday spent a lot of energy on the point that dangerous perps are better apprehended outside their homes.

    Also Jack, I’m with you on that too. When I have some money and more permanent residence situation I’m getting some guns. End of story.

  10. I dunno Jack, if we get another clinton in the White House you may find the BATF&E is willing to make house calls to your little cabin in the woods.

  11. When I have some money and more permanent residence situation I’m getting some guns. End of story.

    Ventifact – a 12ga loaded with 00 Buckshot is ideal for close quarters and the two best/standard models (Remmington 870 or Mossberg 500) are only ~$300. Get someone experienced to take you to the range (assuming you’re not already experienced).

  12. The police reports say Jamar met them with “aggressive resistance,” which they “neutralized” by shooting him twice in the chest, once in the groin, and once in the foot.

    Quel bete vicieux! Quand je l’attaque, il se defend!

  13. Fuck, fuckity, fuck. Goons. Every last one of them.

    I know I cracked wise at Wyoming’s expense the other day, but WY is looking better and better all the time. I’m guessing the entire state’s SWAT team member population doesn’t add up to Lima’s.

    Add to that, it’s a helluva lot prettier than NH. Forget the Birkenstock NH crowd guys. Let’s put the Free State project in Wyoming!

  14. Executive privilege?? What, did the Governor lead the raid?

  15. Ventifact – a 12ga loaded with 00 Buckshot is ideal for close quarters and the two best/standard models (Remmington 870 or Mossberg 500) are only ~$300. Get someone experienced to take you to the range (assuming you’re not already experienced).

    Won’t penetrate body armor.

  16. Won’t penetrate body armor.

    They’re like turkeys, you gotta aim for the neck.

  17. sing it wit me:

    Sweet Home Alabama…

  18. Good grief Balko. Every other day it seems, you’re telling us about some poor bastard, terrorized by a SWAT team. Why don’t you write something more uplifting? Writing only about the isolated incidences of innocent people getting shot by the police, distorts the reality of all the guilty people shot by cops.

  19. …innocent people getting shot by the police, distorts the reality of all the guilty people shot by cops.

    Cops are always saying that you have to walk in their boots. Would make you realize that we’re all guilty people waiting to be shot.

  20. Warren–If the cops shot 100,000 obviously guilty people and 1,000 obviously innocent, would it really matter how many bad guys were clipped?

  21. Executive privilege?? What, did the Governor lead the raid?

    That’s what I was wondering as well.

    it would seem like Sovereign Immunity would be the better way to defend against the lawsuit

  22. Well, if the city won’t produce whatever exculpatory evidence they may have, then the petitioner’s case is basically unopposed. He was shot, and is due some pretty massive compensation.

    -jcr

  23. TrickyVic said:
    Executive privilege?? What, did the Governor lead the raid?

    Nice one.

    Keep up the good work Radley.

    Come on everyone can we say “Negligent Discharge”? There you go, I knew you could.

  24. distorts the reality of all the guilty people shot by cops.

    Out of curiousity, just when did “due process” come to mean “if the cops break your door down, you’re guilty”?

  25. Before you grab that shotgun and move to the cabin, and spend too much time thinking about the best type of shot, you might want to meditate on the fact that we’ve seen a lot of these stories that involve the victim grabbing a gun, and it doesn’t seem to accomplish very much.

  26. joe is right. This problem will be solved by people like Radley exposing the situations to the harsh light of public scrutiny.

  27. oooh, how I hate those ambulance chasing plaintiff’s lawyers!

    *ooops, wrong thd*

  28. Out of curiousity, just when did “due process” come to mean “if the cops break your door down, you’re guilty”?

    To answer your rhetorical question, I think the reasoning goes: Cops initiate massive violence (battering rams, flash-bang grenades, heavy weaponry and armor), if you defend your family, you are guilty no matter what. The heavily armed invaders are innocent no matter what. Of course it’s simple, they don’t grasp complexity.

  29. The constitution of Alabama is from 1901 with 799 amendments. Obviously, some parts are ignored.
    SECTION 182

    Certain persons disqualified from registering and voting.
    The following persons shall be disqualified both from registering, and from voting, namely:

    All idiots and insane persons; those who shall by reason of conviction of crime be disqualified from voting at the time of the ratification of this Constitution; those who shall be convicted of treason, murder, arson, embezzlement, malfeasance in office, larceny, receiving stolen property, obtaining property or money under false pretenses, perjury, subornation of perjury, robbery, assault with intent to rob, burglary, forgery, bribery, assault and battery on the wife, bigamy, living in adultery, sodomy, incest, rape, miscegenation, crime against nature, or any crime punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or of any infamous crime or crime involving moral turpitude; also, any person who shall be convicted as a vagrant or tramp, or of selling or offering to sell his vote or the vote of another, or of buying or offering to buy the vote of another, or of making or offering to make a false return in any election by the people or in any primary election to procure the nomination or election of any person to any office, or of suborning any witness or registrar to secure the registration of any person as an elector.

  30. Out of curiousity, just when did “due process” come to mean “if the cops break your door down, you’re guilty”?

    well, the “process” in this case is a search warrant. Breaking your door down is considered not to be a process problem right now because of Hudson v. Michigan. However, there is reason to believe that the court may come to regard this as a process problem if courageous journalists (and the lovable scamp journos who report on them) continue to fight cases like this one. For example, this wikipedia entry explains the reservations that many of the Supreme Court justices had in Hudson:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_v._Michigan

  31. They shot 16 bullets and only hit him 4 times. I mean, I’m glad that Mr Jamar isn’t dead, but why do we give these imbeciles guns if they are poor shots in addition to being trigger happy?

    And remember: this is the Special Weapons And Tactics team. Regular cops are far, far worse.

    I will now pull another one of my “cops are fucking idiots and bad with guns” stories out.

    I belonged to a private indoor range in Orange County NY. Part of the deal with the town (the deal was “don’t try and shut us down you statist anti-gun fucks”) was to allow the local police a few weeks each year in which to have exclusive use of the range a few hours a day for practice. This range used an angled steel plate backdrop to drive bullets down into a sand trap. If the backdrop became too pitted, it was possible for a bullet to come back at you, but unlikely–but even so range rules barred magnums and jacketed bullets to prevent large pits in the backdrop.

    So the fucking cops were practicing one year. In spite of the huge signs saying “NO MAGNUMS OR JACKETED BULLETS” they were using…jacketed bullets. Then they were–get this–standing 7-10 feet away from the backdrop and doing diving rolls during which they would shoot at the targets. Jaw on the floor yet?

    So, one of the idiots’ bullets sprayed back on them and injured them. What did this particular cop do?

    Sue the range.

    True story.

  32. Radley, I’m a cosmopolitan, urban McArdle-reading kind of libertairan–how are you so good at making me want to go buy guns and live in the woods

    Google “randy weaver”

    You’re much better off in a small (under 20,000 population) town. It also helps if you live in one of the 40 right-to-carry states and have a concealed handgun license.

  33. –if courageous lawyers (and the lovable scamp journos who report on them)–

  34. ..you might want to meditate on the fact that we’ve seen a lot of these stories that involve the victim grabbing a gun, and it doesn’t seem to accomplish very much.

    You’re right of course, when it involves a SWAT team. But how do you differentiate between uniformed thugs and non-uniformed thugs? I’m not advocating shooting police at all, only home invaders. If those invaders are the non-uniformed variety your odds are good. If they’re tax-payer funded you’re dead.

    So do you never respond and risk death at the hands of a non-uniformed invader but (probably) survive if they’re uniformed? Or do you prevent death at the hands of a non-uniformed invader and risk almost certain death at the hands of the uniformed ones?

    It’s a gamble, but I’d rather do something.

  35. Certain persons disqualified from registering and voting.
    The following persons shall be disqualified both from registering, and from voting, namely:

    All idiots and insane persons;

    Well, that would cut out 90% of Congress, the President and his advisers and most of the Governors.

  36. …innocent people getting shot by the police, distorts the reality of all the guilty people shot by cops.

    Mustn’t distort reality. – names/dates/locations of same please…?

    On the other hand, there’s always that old historical technique: “shot trying to escape.” Of course that would be allowed after a person had been properly tried and found guilty. Ain’t that how one gets to wear the label “guilty” in the first place? At least technically… (or should that read “at least constitutionally and legally”?)

    Then and only then can a person be shot as a guilty person, and only when attempting escape. Innocents, of course need not meet those stringent requirements in order to be shot.

  37. Again – thanks radley. Good work.

    ….*”Executive Privilege”*…. where have I heard that before? It’s become the hallmark of the “if it makes us look bad, we dont have to answer to you” government.

    Citizen shoots at cop by accident = citizen is menace to society and likely can/will/should be killed on the spot for the good of the community

    Cop shoots citizen by ‘accident’ (although he came screaming through the door in the middle of the night in an insane rush) = One of Our Best Doing His Job Bravely

    Hey, you cant make an omelette without shooting a few innocent people. How were we supposed to know there might be someone other than criminals ready to be shot inside? Criminals often have criminal families. And neighbors. Going in the wrong door is more like, ‘taking a staged approach’ to the bust. Drugs are bad for you too.

  38. Remeber years ago when the John Birch Society crusaded against Civilian Police Review Boards, saying that the local Attorney Generals were the officials required by law to look into official misconduct? It is pretty clear that the AGs don’t give a damn so it may well be high time for libertarians to ally with others and start agitating for Review Boards.

  39. LibertyPlease,

    By all means, grabbing your gun when un-uniformed people break into your home is probably a good decision.

    But thinking that buying a gun so you can shoot at the police if they break into your home is going to protect your freedom or life runs counter to the evidence.

  40. “Doesn’t seem like the kind of posture the city would strike if it had nothing to hide.”

    For those words to appear on the Reason website would be amusingly ironic if it weren’t appalling hypocrisy.

  41. For those words to appear on the Reason website would be amusingly ironic if it weren’t appalling hypocrisy.

    Please explain.

  42. Yes, well, America is based on the idea that we distrust government power. Therefore, there is, if you will, a presumption of guilt for government action.

  43. By all means, grabbing your gun when un-uniformed people break into your home is probably a good decision.

    But thinking that buying a gun so you can shoot at the police if they break into your home is going to protect your freedom or life runs counter to the evidence.

    True, in reality I prep for the non-uniformed variety. But it steams me that the uniformed invasions are tolerated in a “free” country. The unreasonable banter about buying a gun to defend against them is just talk. I recognize that there is no hope.

  44. Duane —

    No hypocrisy about it. Some entities, like *people*, have a right to privacy that ought to be respected; other entities, like *governments*, have no such right.

    Citizens are entitled to scrutinize the government’s decisions, which necessarily entails access to all information leading to those decisions.

    People can legitimately have things to hide from their fellow man that are not related to wrongdoing. Governments cannot. Therefore, the “nothing to hide” argument does not apply to the first but does to the second.

  45. Won’t penetrate body armor.

    Alternate loads – slugs and 00.

    you might want to meditate on the fact that we’ve seen a lot of these stories that involve the victim grabbing a gun, and it doesn’t seem to accomplish very much.

    The victims seem to have a good faith belief that they are dealing with home invaders, not cops. Armed home owners have a pretty impressive record of dealing with the former, joe.

    The alternative is to disarm yourself and throw yourself on the mercy of whoever kicks down your door. If you’re lucky, it’ll be cops and they’ll just shoot your dog.

    And maybe your wife and one of your kids.

  46. Eh? Not really. All government action needs justification, especially in the court of law. That’s why (in theory) the burden of proof is on them to show that you were in the wrong.

  47. And maybe your wife and one of your kids.

    I’m OK with the wife, but do I get to pick which kid?

    😉

  48. That was a response to Duane but I was beaten many times over!

  49. For those words to appear on the Reason website would be amusingly ironic if it weren’t appalling hypocrisy.

    No hypocrisy at all. Perhaps you should look up what that words means.

  50. SECTION 14

    State not to be made defendant.
    That the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity.

    I see this but it says the feds and the city of huntsville were in on the raid. Not the state.

  51. Thanks for the advice. And really I’m not into the woods-cabin bit, though a smaller town would be nice in many ways. And of course I have no intention of buying home-defense weapons to kill cops with. Still, there’s a side of me (the part that imagines a worst-case-scenario) that says it’d also be ideal to have a big semi-auto rifle, for, you know, those catastrophic government abuses that won’t ever happen and won’t ever need to be countered. But hey, nothing would prevent that over the long term like gov’t knowledge that folks have guns..

  52. But hey, nothing would prevent that over the long term like gov’t knowledge that folks have guns..

    Why do you think there are ever more gun-control laws and bans?

  53. Not because people plan government abuse, but because they don’t consider it possible. Or we’d all be libertarians…

  54. “possible” = “likely” / “as serious as private abuse” in most cases actually…

  55. Joe’s right.

    By the time the cops are in your house, it’s too late to defend yourselves against them.

    The time for anticop violence is before they get to your house.

    OK, that was snark, before anyone freaks out.

  56. Still, there’s a side of me (the part that imagines a worst-case-scenario) that says it’d also be ideal to have a big semi-auto rifle, for, you know, those catastrophic government abuses..

    Check out the Ruger Mini-14 & Mini-30. They have the practically indestructible Garand-style actions, are inexpensive (~$500), and accurate enough. Look for the factory 20rd magazines though, the aftermarket magazines are a crapshoot.

  57. I’ll keep that in mind too, thanks. Still, it doesn’t hurt to clarify that we aren’t all crazy kooks, for other posters and for whatever mainstream readers might wander through here. Joe and thoreau are right, the only effective way to address this stuff is actually to take civic action, not military action. Hmm, we could tell the authorities that little secret when it comes to the (real) perils of drug use…

  58. ..the only effective way to address this stuff is actually to take civic action, not military action.

    I agree, but they keep going with all this war talk, and heavily arming themselves…

  59. for those of you into the cabin in the woods deal. Some parts of north Idaho are very remote, affordable and in rather temperate climates with up to 18-20 weeks good growing season.

  60. I’m (sorta) from northern Idaho. I had dinner at a guy’s house who grew almost all his own food, but he’s not a full-time farmer or anything (he and his wife are both biochem researchers I think). Heh. Small world.

  61. Lived in St. maries for awhile. Lovely country.

  62. RC, that whole bit about the difference between “when they break into your home” and “planning on shooting at cops” just zoomed right over your head, didn’t it?

  63. RC, that whole bit about the difference between “when they break into your home” and “planning on shooting at cops” just zoomed right over your head, didn’t it?

    He responded to my comment about 00 buckshot first, then your comment about not planning to shoot invading cops. I think they were seperate responses in the same post.

    However, that first commetn about alternating loads of slugs and buckshot could apply to non-uniformed invaders. It is standard practive to load a shotgun as such in case an intruder barricades themself and is not necessarily intended to defeat body armor.

  64. *pinches bridge of nose, sighs*

    I hate to say it, but in a gun thread, on a libertarian forum, I’m about to agree with the token Democrat, joe.

    Getting into a shootout with a SWAT Team at 4am is probably not going to work out like it should, and the place to fight this crap is through the system.

    That said, there’s also some horrendous gun advice in this thread.

    Neither shotgun slugs or buckshot will penetrate kevlar vests. The best you’ll get with slugs is blunt-force trauma.

    The Mini-14 is an utterly abysmal piece of crap. Inaccurate, prone to malfunctions, and hampered by a company that thinks you should be limited to ten-round magazines. By Ruger’s own admission, it’s nothing more than the world’s biggest plinking rifle.

    To say nothing of the fact that touching off a rifle round in a house without hearing protection is going to cause an absolutely tremendous level of hearing damage to yourself and your loved ones.

  65. He responded to my comment about 00 buckshot first, then your comment about not planning to shoot invading cops. I think they were seperate responses in the same post.

    Yes. The “Thanks” was for the weapons advice, all around.

  66. I don’t think ANYONE here has said that the way to defeat SWAT excess is through shooting them as they come in your door. Did I miss a post to that effect, or a chorus of agreement to it, because there seem to be a lot of people arguing against that idea when it has not really even surfaced. ?

    Also, the rifle was for more long-distance situations, not in the house — those worst-case-scenarios where the word “resistance” refers to a group as well as an act.

  67. Stories of police excess make me want to obtain guns in the short term because increasing power to authority is not merely an absolute problem (i.e. the gov’t is too militaristic) but a relative problem. That is, a country allows this strength in authority because they trust authority over personal choice — i.e., I’m worried that gun ownership will be too restricted for my taste if I wait to long to take part. Maybe that’s unfounded. I don’t know.

  68. It’s not completely unfounded. But there’s more to the equation than just acquiring and hoarding hardware.

    The best rifle in the world doesn’t do you any good if you don’t know how to use it.

    Hence it’s a good idea to attend training courses from people like Louis Awerbuck, or to get into competitive shooting.

  69. The best shot in the world with the best gun in the world won’t make himself any safer against SWAT raids.

    Best case scenario, it takes longer to kill him, and he dies a killer himself. Whoopie.

  70. Joe, iirc, in most of the cases where people shoot back at the SWAT teams, they usually don’t end up dead.

    For instance, I think Radley reported a story a few weeks ago where a guy shot back at the cops with a shotgun, and he didn’t end up dead.

  71. No, he ended up charged with attempted murder. IIRC.

  72. Being charged/convicted as a cop-killer would be not too far off from shot to death, various circumstances depending. So, yeah, just say no to shooting cops…

  73. joe is right. This problem will be solved by people like Radley exposing the situations to the harsh light of public scrutiny.

    Or maybe land mines…

  74. of course not shooting assumes it is johnny law barging in and not someone intent on killing you because you are between him & “his” take.

    If your town pays for a SWAT team they will use that SWAT team. If your town is under 80k-100k ask yourself, is your town so craptacular that it needs one. If your town does have one, how much money in the last five years has it cost your town financially. (In my town each taxpayer is on the hook for roughly an extra $200 a year or so for police brutality claims with in excess of $2000 per taxpayer in pending litigation claims for the SWAT team — we disbanded them as too expensive).

  75. joe sez No, he ended up charged with attempted murder. IIRC.

    I hate to say it, but so was Randy Weaver. How’d the Feds do with that one?

  76. Randy Weaver got his wife and baby killed, because he thought it would be a bitchin’ idea to arm up to protect himself from the police, too.

  77. What did Jamar’s nephew do to require this kind of action? It’s probably something petty.

    When cops can do whatever they please, and kill people in the process without punishment sounds awful like nazi germany.

  78. Widespread distrust of the police would lead me to believe that if one ever were to get the drop on a SWAT team, you wouldn’t want the lying bastards to do a throwdown or claim you were the aggressor.

    Which means you can’t leave witnesses.

    Unintended Consequences Strikes Again.

  79. US SWAT teams are a joke. Rank amateurs who wouldn’t qualify as janitor for real SWAT teams.

    Anybody can wear body armor and take artillery into a home and start shooting.

    Arrests in this way are executed in an embarrassing way. It’s not necessary to break down the door. At some point the guy needs to leave the house. They can be arrested in a controlled way.

    Entering the wrong house, and why do we hear so much about that, is just an amateur mistake to make.

    Americans should be in front of city hall protesting this kind of action. Executive privilege? Give me a break!

  80. The point Joe was that the Feds wanted Weaver for murdering their agents, and the incident was so transparently the fault of the Feds that the defense didn’t even present a case and Weaver was found not guilty. You might want to read Spence’s book on the case.

    You of course will harp on Weaver, ignoring that NONE of the govt SOBs that caused the whole chain of events to occur was ever held accountable – not so much as a letter in their personnel file. Funny how that happens: no one held accountable, lather, rinse, repeat.

    You’re getting to be as predictable (and boring) as Dan T.

  81. The comments on this thread remind me of a recent case from th news where a guy successfully shot a cop who was in his livingroom:

    http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-12/11988201503620.xml&coll=1

    keep those guns locked, gunnuts. an accident is much likelier than a raid!

  82. I’m actually pretty familiar with the case, juris.

    Before the first fed showed up at the Weavers’ place, he loaded up on firepower and decided that he was going to shoot at the police if they even came ’round there.

    Like some people on this thread are talking about.

    dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

    But yes, the feds were way out of line, and they got their own people killed with their bullet-headed tough-guy actions, too.

  83. Betcha didn’t predict that, smart guy. Howz about turning down the smug?

  84. ndy Weaver got his wife and baby killed, because he thought it would be a bitchin’ idea to arm up to protect himself from the police, too.

    Joe – The Feds were so out of line that even the congressional bastards chastized them.

  85. That said, there’s also some horrendous gun advice in this thread.

    Neither shotgun slugs or buckshot will penetrate kevlar vests. The best you’ll get with slugs is blunt-force trauma.

    The Mini-14 is an utterly abysmal piece of crap. Inaccurate, prone to malfunctions, and hampered by a company that thinks you should be limited to ten-round magazines. By Ruger’s own admission, it’s nothing more than the world’s biggest plinking rifle.

    To say nothing of the fact that touching off a rifle round in a house without hearing protection is going to cause an absolutely tremendous level of hearing damage to yourself and your loved ones.

    Er, Mediageek, yours is the first horrendous advice I’ve seen.

    We’ve been discussing defense against home invasions in general and against non-uniformed invaders 00 buckshot/slugs are very effective. Against the uniformed variety I’d still take the 12ga as kevlar doesn’t cover the entire body….

    I’m not sure where you get your info about the Mini-14, but accuracy of the newer models (580 serial numbers) is great. Not MOA great, but sufficient for combat. As for malfunctions, they are known for their reliability (due to the famous garand action). As for the magazine capacities, 20rd mags are widely available. I bought 3 brand new 20rd factory mags last month. Check out gunbroker.com or a gun show.

  86. To say nothing of the fact that touching off a rifle round in a house without hearing protection is going to cause an absolutely tremendous level of hearing damage to yourself and your loved ones.

    Forgot the last one…

    No one has suggested using a rifle for home defense, only for a larger (eventual) conflict. However, if a SWAT team is invading your house with flashbang grenades touching off a rifle round isn’t going to be any noisier…

  87. At some point people are going to start personally hold those police who are involved actively responsible. Someone comes through your door, abuses you, and then says your lucky, don’t let it happen again. What are you going to do? Obviously you can’t get them then. So return the favor, start meeting cops at their house, with their families. Whether it is day or night, whether you do it politely or blow their door down, whether their family is home or not, whether the cop is home or not, is up to you. But we have to start demanding accountablity with possible reprecussions or this will continue to get worse.

  88. If you want to protect yourself from invading cops, take a tip from the NYC chapter of the Hell’s Angels.

    Last year there was an incident in front the Hell’s Angels building. An old lady was aledgedly beaten up by one of the memebers. It brought out the ESU (NYC SWAT), heliocopter, and a dozen or so police cars.

    The Hell’s Angels had the building locked down. The front door was reinforced so the cops’ battery ram wouldn’t work. The cops could not force their way in and it provided enough time for the HA’s lawyer to challange the warrant. The cops had to strike a deal with the HA, which eventually they did. I believe the HA handed over the suspect, but they did it on mostly their terms.

  89. How do you instruct a builder to build your house to be ‘police-proof’ w/o having to educate them / sound crazy?

  90. Not sure. Sounding crazy is better than death.

    For the HA, I know they have beefy reinforced doors. I think they are way ahead of us in the paranoid that the man is going raid their home game. They’ve had decades to prepare.

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