Sudan Shows Its Tolerance

Yesterday Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir pardoned Gillian Gibbons, the British schoolteacher who last week was found guilty of insulting Islam by letting her 7-year-old students name a class teddy bear Muhammad. Sentenced to 15 days in jail, light punishment compared to the six months and 40 lashes she could have gotten, Gibbons was freed halfway to her release date and promptly returned to the U.K. (Apparently she got credit for time served awaiting trial.) Gibbons' defense attorney explains:

This was all political. The government did this to show they are tolerant. They don't need any more problems with the world and the international media.

The sad thing is that Bashir does look pretty tolerant compared to his constituents. "On Friday," The New York Times reports, "hundreds of Sudanese in Khartoum, the capital, protested what they considered a lenient punishment and called for her to be put to death."

Comments

[P Brooks]

hundreds of Sudanese in Khartoum, the capital, protested what they considered a lenient punishment and called for her to be put to death

MADD should get those people on their mailing list; they sound like just the sort of hysterical pinheads MADD caters to.

[joe]

People on the streets of Khartoum would have never heard about this case if the government hadn't publicized it.

The regime is playing good cop-bad cop with the western media. They see the good deal the Saudis have going - hey, we're the ones keeping these crazies in line, you need us! - and they're doing the same thing.

[jkp]

The government of the Sudan couldn't have gotten away with this if Islam was not (as some wit observed,) a religion of peace but rather, a virulent meme that corrupts the minds of all it infects.

Honestly, can't 'insult' the name of Muhammad? What -- is he supposed to be Voldemort or something? Please.

[Guy Montag]

For your own "My name is Muhammad" stuffed bear, see the earlier story about this and follow the link I posted.

Merry Christmas!

[Guy Montag]

Well, slightly easier follow the links and, please, have a great Festival of Lights.

[matt]

Joe's nailed it. Not killing this British woman will be the Sudanese government's first positive PR move in years.

Between this and my personal theory that Chavez intentionally tanked a meaningless election to make himself look "democratic", it appears that the world's outlaw regimes are starting to master American-style spin.

[thoreau]

joe beat me to the punch.

When you see the people under a brutal government protesting in the streets because the government was insufficiently brutal, don't take that at face value as a spontaneous display of fanaticism.

Innate fanaticism may play a role. State propaganda may also play a role. State-created social conditions that limit opportunity and drive people to extremism may play a role. Deliberate state suppression of more liberal strains of religion may also be at work. And then there's always the state-funded "agents provacateurs" in the crowd.

Anyway, these are complex phenomena. Don't just assume that "all those people are crazy" or that their leader is the "reasonable" one here.

[Ken Shultz]

"The sad thing is that Bashir does look pretty tolerant compared to his constituents. "On Friday," The New York Times reports, "hundreds of Sudanese in Khartoum, the capital, protested what they considered a lenient punishment and called for her to be put to death."

This is where I'm usually tempted to ask why we'd want to democratize a place like this, but if the Sudanese people I've known are any indication, and I've been told they are, then those hundreds of Sudanese calling for Gibbons' death are on the fringe.

We have our own fringe that calls for all sorts of crazy things too.

[sv]

meanwhile, an ongoing refugee crisis involving millions and government-backed seek-and-destroy ethnic cleansing missions against civilians are just so old news.

[thoreau]

Ken-

Even if there are a lot of crazies in a place, I still think it's good if they transition to democracy. Not at the barrel of an American gun, mind you, but I'd still applaud any home-grown effort. Democracy, at least in the liberal form often called a "republic", is not just about holding a vote and giving absolute power to the winner. It's about the devolution of power from an elite to the governed, and the periodic process of holding rulers accountable and removing them via non-violent means.

Elections might not be great ways to identify and empower the wisest, but they're excellent ways to remove power from a corrupt inner circle and hold the rulers accountable to those whom they govern, with periodic opportunities for non-violent power shifts. That's a hell of a good idea, no matter what attitudes the populace has.

It isn't a guarantee of good outcomes, of course, but I'd rather have those processes than not have them. And in the long run, I think it's harder for the state to effectively foster radicalism in such an environment.

[Warren]

"hundreds of Sudanese in Khartoum, the capital, protested what they considered a lenient punishment and called for her to be put to death."

Holy crap! What is this, the fifteenth century?

[Della]

I the UK we don't have a jaywalking law, and consider the whole idea of having a law about where you can cross the road silly. In the US jaywalking can get you weeks in jail, you can even get beaten up for it. Are you going to get rid of your jaywalking laws because we consider them silly?

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/police_violence_historian_pinned_and_beaten_for_jaywalking.htm
http://www.9news.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=80741

[Alice Bowie]

it's amazing that we spent Billions and Billions of Dollars to hang Sadam on YouTube for being a tyrant. And yet, the IDDIE AMINs, Robert Mugabes, Omar al-Bashir, and GW Bushes are praised and/or ignored.

[J sub D]

They see the good deal the Saudis have going - hey, we're the ones keeping these crazies in line, you need us!

Damn that's cynical thinking, joe. Not necessarily wrong, but cynical.

[Taktix?]

Look. I'd had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah."

[lunchstealer]

You're just making it worse for yourself, Taktix.

[Ali (aka iih)]

Yeah, those people on the street are angry because they are Muslim and that is what their faith tells them to do. Evil evil people. Those who say they hate the West for the bombing of the med factory, and for the constant and furthering of (what they perceive as) UN hostilities are nothing but whimps. Interventionism in peoples' affairs is fair game and legitimate. Keep going at it to eliminate the root cause of this evil. Oh, yeah, and internal politics has nothing to do with it either.

[/sarcasm]

On a serious note, my opinion that the protesters are petty, stupid and extremist was not sarcasm. These people need to grow up and live in the modern way. [no sarcasm here]

[Guy Montag]

Nail him up! Nail some sense into 'em!

Ooops, wrong scene.

[zig zag man]

Now that the Sudanese are all tolerant and stuff, I'm sure it will become a tourist mecca. Ha! I kill me.

[lunchstealer]

This was all political. The government did this to show they are tolerant. They don't need any more problems with the world and the international media.

And I will show that I am not a thief by returning all of your lunch except the desert and the juice box, which of course I have already consumed. Please note that further lunchtakings can be avoided by not naming your bologna sandwich 'Mohammed' or by leaving the country and never returning. Or by not ever having lunch again.

[Guy Montag]

thoreau,

Elections might not be great ways to identify and empower the wisest, but they're excellent ways to remove power from a corrupt inner circle and hold the rulers accountable to those whom they govern, with periodic opportunities for non-violent power shifts. That's a hell of a good idea, no matter what attitudes the populace has.

Do you mean like Gaza?

(no, I am not claiming that democracy is impossible in that part of the world)

[Taktix?]

Worse? Worse? How could it be any worse? Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!

[Guy Montag]

lunchstealer,

I named my prosciutto and pancetta sammich Muhammad.

Please pass the Tabasco?

[Grand Chalupa]

I can think of no better example of the twisted, masochistic liberal mind than this lady's reaction to her situation.

It's even more sickening than the Sudanese rabble.

Go study the demographics (children born in Islamic countries compared with the West) and stories like this of how PC has turned people's minds to mush. Then come back and tell me you're optimistic about the future of the world.

[lunchstealer]

I've only got Cholula.

[lunchstealer]

STOP SAYING JEHOVA!

[Abdul]

Those who say they hate the West for the bombing of the med factory, and for the constant and furthering of (what they perceive as) UN hostilities are nothing but whimps.

So, when the protesters claim to want a severe penalty for a British woman who insulted Islam by naming a teddy bear after the prophet, what they're really saying is that they are really angry at the US for bombing a medicine factor a decade ago, and the UN for "hostilities" in issuing strongly worded reprimands for Darfur?

Sudanese must be a rich and complex language to have such wide-ranging meanings.

[Grand Chalupa]

On a serious note, my opinion that the protesters are petty, stupid and extremist was not sarcasm. These people need to grow up and live in the modern way. [no sarcasm here]

Seems to me the only thing you hate more than Muslim extremists is people daring to oppose them.

[thoreau]

First, nobody is stoning anybody until I say so, even if--and I want to be very clear on this--even if they do Jehova.

Second, to Chalupa: My Iranian colleague has a brother who's a dentist.

[Guy Montag]

Cholula? Yummie!

Then come back and tell me you're optimistic about the future of the world.

I am optimistic about the future of the world. Now please pass the ammo. I will nead more after I finish this sammich fit for Jehovah.

[thoreau]

AARRGGHH!!! Typo!

CORRECTION:

First, nobody is stoning anybody until I say so, even if--and I want to be very clear on this--even if they do say Jehova.

[Guy Montag]

I will nead knead more after I finish this sammich fit for Jehovah.

There, fixed.

[BakedPenguin]

The regime is playing good cop-bad cop with the western media.

I didn't RTFA, but in one of the previous article I'd read, it gave the game away that all the protesters had printed signs free from grammatical errors.

I mean, the US has ~ 90% functional literacy, and whenever our nutjerbs (right or left) get together to protest, there's plenty of homemade mistakes.

[Minion of URKOBOLD]

CAREFUL DOKTOR T!

THAT DENTIST IS ONE BAD MOFO!!!

hier.

He once nearly wet himself against the Chicken of Bristol (mixed deliberately)

[Guy Montag]

BP,

I didn't RTFA, but in one of the previous article I'd read, it gave the game away that all the protesters had printed signs free from grammatical errors.

Did anybody have an "Evil Bert" sign?

[J sub D]

STOP SAYING JEHOVA!

STOP MISSPELLING JEHOVAH, HERTEC!

[J sub D]

Make that HERETIC. joe's law is evidenced once again.

[joe]

I mean, the US has ~ 90% functional literacy, and whenever our nutjerbs (right or left) get together to protest, there's plenty of homemade mistakes.

Get a Brain, Morans!

[R C Dean]

Of course, the hypothesis that the Sudanese government is a cynical tyranny and the hypothesis that Sudanese society is descending/has descended into barbarism are not exactly mutually exclusive.

Absent some evidence to the contrary, I'm going to continue to believe both are true.

[P Brooks]

Elections might not be great ways to identify and empower the wisest, but they're excellent ways to remove power from a corrupt inner circle and hold the rulers accountable to those whom they govern, with periodic opportunities for non-violent power shifts. That's a hell of a good idea, no matter what attitudes the populace has.

Do you mean like Gaza?

I shouldn't....

Our good friends at Fatah were doing such a terrific job of running the show, it's utterly unfathomable that Palestinian voters would vote for any not-Fatah government.
Is that what you meant?

[Taktix?]

In addition, an I mean no offense to Muslims, but fuck Mohammad.

I don't really mean that, but I like to say it from time to time, just to reaffirm the fact that I can without being sentenced to death...

[Guy Montag]

Our good friends at Fatah were doing such a terrific job of running the show, it's utterly unfathomable that Palestinian voters would vote for any not-Fatah government.
Is that what you meant?

Well, just something a bit more peaceful than the Arafat funeral anyway.

[Alice Bowie]

Yea zig zag man

I can't wait for the TOURISM to BLOW UP in Sudan..ha ha ha

I got 2 put it on my "next vacation HOT SPOT list" which includes KABUL and Johanesburg...oh yea, let's not 4-get Newark, NJ.

[Guy Montag]

Taktix?,

That act is an unauthorized use of the Muhammad teddybear. I suggest a different, er, toy.

[joe]

There's an old joke, Taktix.

An American and a Russian are arguing politics during the Cold War. The American says, "I can stand on the steps of the Capitol and say, Richard Nixon is a fool! Down with America!"

So the Russian shoots back, "Me, too! I can stand at the gates of the Kremlin and shout, Richard Nixon is a fool! Down with America!"

Way to stick it to the man there.

[Guy Montag]

Sudan is on the cutting edge of k-rad hacking.

[Neu Mejican]

Ali (aka iih),

I think you will find this interesting:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/Atran07/index.html

A well thought out and researched presentation of radicalism, its roots, methods, and a good "to do" and "to avoid" list. I think it echoes many of Ali's points from past threads.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Guy Montag, I love the BEAR! Ain't that America?

Made my morning.

[Bugs Bunny]

Get a Brain, Morans!

That's MAROONS, Doc.

[Taktix?]

Way to stick it to the man there.

True. While I certainly am not really risking anything, I do enjoy celebrating my 1st Amendment protections. Another old saying, "if you don't use it, you lose it."

[Guy Montag]

Is your Muhammad bear a Ron Paul contributor?

[parse]

Here's something I don't understand about this story: if naming that bear Muhammed is enough of an insult to the Muslim religion to send hundreds of protestors in the streets calling for the teacher's death--how did a class full of 7 year olds end up voting to give that name to the bear? If I read a story that said some third grade class in the U.S. voted to name their schoolroom teddy "Fuck U. Motherfucker," I'd wonder what was up. This is apparently a whole lot worse than that--but I haven't heard any Sudanese even suggesting the children get detention.

[Jamie Kelly]

I'm sure there are places in the South where you'd be killed for naming a Teddy bear "Martin Luther King Jr."

[.]

or naming a brown bear jesus

[.]

After the whole comic thing, I think we should be happy that all of the middle east, and most of Britain, isn't burning yet.

This is progress. I don't think anyone has died over this yet.

[Jamie Kelly]

I think we should be happy that all of the middle east ... isn't burning yet.

Why?

[Guy Montag]

or naming a brown bear jesus

Quite a common Hispanic name. Where exactly would this be a problem in reality, versus your imagenation?

[.]

it was a joke

[Guy Montag]

k

[.]

and brown wasn't a reference to hispanic people

[.]

it was also a poor joke, now that I read it again.

[BakedPenguin]

Did anybody have an "Evil Bert" sign?

No, but I did find this out about Fozzie the Bear.

[Guy Montag]

it was also a poor joke, now that I read it again.

I saw someone make a longer comment, on the same thing, in another thread and they sounded serious. I thought this was a continuation, but I do not recall it being your handle.

[.]

"Why?"

Because that would mean all the oil is probably burning too.

[Jennifer]

There's an old joke, Taktix. An American and a Russian are arguing politics during the Cold War. The American says, "I can stand on the steps of the Capitol and say, Richard Nixon is a fool! Down with America!"

So the Russian shoots back, "Me, too! I can stand at the gates of the Kremlin and shout, Richard Nixon is a fool! Down with America!" Way to stick it to the man there.

How's this: "Fuck Mohammed, fuck Jesus, fuck Buddha and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, fuck George W. Bush and that asshole Dick Cheney and fuck every elected or appointed official in this formerly great country of ours."

There. I might get banned from Hit and Run for saying that, but I haven't the slightest worry that I'll spend a single second in jail, or pay a penny in fines. And I damn sure know I won't be sentenced to multiple lashings, let alone death.

[Mohammud the Apostate]

"Honestly, can't 'insult' the name of Muhammad? What -- is he supposed to be Voldemort or something? Please."

Turns out, it's a small penis thing. Ever see any muslim male porn stars? Of course not. Why do you think they dream of virgins? Because, as Drum said in Mandingo, "there afraid someone bigger and better has been there first.

[Guy Montag]

and the Flying Spaghetti Monster

That one might get you into serious trouble. Some of the more radical Greenpiece members worship her.

[Russell Seitz]

Maybe she should have named it Joe Smith
http://www.adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2007/12/question-of-the.html

[Ali (aka iih)]

Seems to me the only thing you hate more than Muslim extremists is people daring to oppose them.

Be my guest, feel free to oppose them.

[Ali (aka iih)]

So, when the protesters claim to want a severe penalty for a British woman who insulted Islam by naming a teddy bear after the prophet, what they're really saying is that they are really angry at the US for bombing a medicine factor a decade ago, and the UN for "hostilities" in issuing strongly worded reprimands for Darfur?

No, Abdul, they are protesting for exactly these things but as narrated by their own leaders! Their own leaders (and probably clerics) are employing tactics that incite fear of the foreigner, who is going there to harm them, and cause them death and misery. This is the government narrative. The protesters are responding to these messages from their leaders. Hmmm... what does that remind me of? Has this technique been employed closer to home and people are falling into this like sheep?

[prolefeed]

Ali -- you're usually a sensible guy, but defending these idiots calling for the death penalty over teddy bear naming would be about the equivalent of me defending Timothy McVeigh because I, too, despise the federal government.

But, I'll defend your First Amendment right to speak up and defend the indefensible.

[Ali (aka iih)]

prolefeed- Where have I defended them? See my comment @ 11:25am. They are an idiotic extremist mob. But the only difference between them and those here who want to bomb the entire middle east is a matter of comfort. They are both lead, through fear, to believe they are under constant threat from the outside world, with the difference being that the sheep here are well off and the sheep there are poor. And poverty, my friend, can lead to a lot of bizarre stuff.

[Dave B.]

I'm sure there are places in the South where you'd be killed for naming a Teddy bear "Martin Luther King Jr."

And more places in the South where you'd be killed for naming a Teddy bear Mohammed, I'd wager.

[Conhugeco]

Holy Shi'ite people, stop making religious insults!

[prolefeed]

prolefeed- Where have I defended them?

Ali -- You seem to oscillate between condeming these idiots and apologizing for them, as I perceive you did here: So, when the protesters claim to want a severe penalty for a British woman who insulted Islam by naming a teddy bear after the prophet, what they're really saying is that they are really angry at the US for bombing a medicine factor a decade ago, and the UN for "hostilities" in issuing strongly worded reprimands for Darfur?

I don't think that poverty is an any excuse for barbaric behavior. Plenty of poor people behave with gentleness and kindness -- a certain Jewish peasant carpenter springs to mind -- and rich people, like Osama Bin Laden, can behave abominably.

I understand and respect your desire to defend your faith, but I think you do that desire a disservice, and harm your credibility here, by apologizing and making excuses for those who clearly pervert the teachings of Islam.

As a Mormon, I don't defend Mitt Romney when he does something d**kish, though I have jumped in when someone unfairly maligns his faith, or unfairly attributes malign motives to him due to their not understanding the LDS culture.

[Guy Montag]

a certain Jewish peasant carpenter springs to mind

I hope you are not talking about Jesus, son of a general contractor who became one himself, and a school-trained Rabbi.

[Ali (aka iih)]

prolefeed- the quote you mention is not mine. It is Abdul's.

May be poor vs. rich is not the right characterization. It really is comfort. Sheep in the West (for one example, look at the all 500 or so people following Tancredo) do not feel as threatened as sheep in the poorer countries. Look at Africa. I really do think that education and global awareness is a big part of it. And these are closely related to wealth. No?

Anyhow, my point is that take ignorance, mix it with fear and you get a lot that extremism. In Sudan, people are just more willing to express it in the streets. That certainly does not condone their behavior.

[Ali (aka iih)]

I understand and respect your desire to defend your faith, but I think you do that desire a disservice, and harm your credibility here, by apologizing and making excuses for those who clearly pervert the teachings of Islam.

In this particular case I was not trying to defend the faith at all. I am just trying to offer some depth to an other very shallow exposition to the troubles in Sudan. I am not making this up. Listen to the BBC. They certainly have a far deeper coverage and understanding of the issues. Or the CBC.

You seem to oscillate between condeming these idiots and apologizing for them

I can not and do not want to apologize for them. If you want to resolve the bigger problems we are facing in the world (including Islamic terrorism), you got to ask the hard questions. One answer is that these people, as sheep, are as blindly driven as the peer sheep elsewhere. But the weaker you are, the more nervous you feel, and the more violent your reaction to petty issues would be. Where in this argument is there an apology for these idiots? (I think this reflects on a sort of "either with us or against us" kind of attitude your taking, and I really do not mean any disrespect --I think you know me well by now.)

[Ali (aka iih)]

If I apologize for anything, it would be the typos and grammatical errors in the previous comment.

[joe]

You seem to oscillate between condeming these idiots and apologizing for them

That sounds familiar.

prolefeed, are you "chavez is a thug?"

[prolefeed]

Ali -- reread Abdul's post, and your 11:25 post. Inexplicably missed your [/sarcasm] ending. My bad for mistakenly attributing something to you that you didn't say.

[prolefeed]

joe, I don't post as "chavez is a thug". I post as "prolefeed", with the rare, clearly-meant-to-be-mocking handle, such as "A Fake Dan T.".

And, I've been trying hard to not get into antagonistic flamewars with you (or anyone else here) lately, especially after seeing a few of the uglier exchanges you've been involved in with other folks who take extreme umbrage with your POVs. Trying not to get sucked into the incivility and meanness that occurs here from time to time, even if I do slip up from time to time.

[Stevo Darkly]

Here's something I don't understand about this story: if naming that bear Muhammed is enough of an insult to the Muslim religion to send hundreds of protestors in the streets calling for the teacher's death--how did a class full of 7 year olds end up voting to give that name to the bear? If I read a story that said some third grade class in the U.S. voted to name their schoolroom teddy "Fuck U. Motherfucker," I'd wonder what was up. This is apparently a whole lot worse than that--but I haven't heard any Sudanese even suggesting the children get detention.

Something that might not be clear to everybody:

"Mohammed" is a very common name. Including variants such as "Mahmed" and "Mahomet," etc., "Mohammed" is in fact the most common male name in the world.

The teacher is from the West, and probably didn't realize that while "Mohammed" is a very common male name, bestowing it upon a stuffed bear would be considered improper. It's a culture gap.

It's possible that, if the kids in the classroom were young enough, they didn't realize that it would be improper either.

Or maybe they did it deliberately and are pranking little shits, but are being given a pass (or at least nonlethal punishments not considered to be news) because of their youth.

[Ali (aka iih)]

NM- That is an interesting website you link to. I haven't looked into it yet, but will do when I have the time.

[Ali (aka iih)]

prolefeed- No problem at all.

[Ali (aka iih)]

Stevo- These are possibilities that could very well have happened.

I have probably commited her mistake myself many many times. I have a cousin whose name is Muhammad. I have certainly showed him my sister's teddies (she has a million of them), and might have called one Muhammad (teasing him) at some point or the other. I am still alive.

[T]

So was naming my new brand of pork sausage and bacon "Mohammed's Finest" a shrewd move or not? Market research has been inconclusive on this for me. None of the surveys the marketing guys have sent to the Sudan have come back.

[joe]

prolefeed,

Now that I see you mistook "Abdul's" sarcastic post for Ali's, I take it back. There actually was a plausible reason for you to think he was oscillating between two opposed positions.

So you couldn't possibly be chavez is a thug.

[Guy Montag]

T,

So was naming my new brand of pork sausage and bacon "Mohammed's Finest" a shrewd move or not? Market research has been inconclusive on this for me. None of the surveys the marketing guys have sent to the Sudan have come back.

Perhaps we can team up? Want one of my Hanukkah hams? The season for Ramadan Ribs has passed, as has Passover Pork Chops, but Muharram Hocks are just around the corner!

[April]

" Are you going to get rid of your jaywalking laws because we consider them silly?"

I sure hope so.

[Another Phil]

On a serious note, my opinion that the protesters are petty, stupid and extremist was not sarcasm. These people need to grow up and live in the modern way.

You think people calling for murder need to grow up? What would they have to do for you to admit that they are simply garden variety savages?

[Guy Montag]

The first jaywalking fine I heard of was in Chicago, early 1970s. But I was living there at the time, so it was big news there, might have been old-hat other places.

Nothing like a Leftist Utopia to get measures like this and more.

[Ali (aka iih)]

Perhaps we can team up? Want one of my Hanukkah hams? The season for Ramadan Ribs has passed, as has Passover Pork Chops, but Muharram Hocks are just around the corner!

Haha... I am quite impressed. you know about Muharram and all 🙂 Seriously.

[April]

"I can think of no better example of the twisted, masochistic liberal mind than this lady's reaction to her situation.

It's even more sickening than the Sudanese rabble."

That was my reaction, too. As soon as I hit British soil, I'd have been very candid about how overreactionary the whole thing was, and I was just trying to teach their freakin' children, but screw you all--teach your own selves.

But no, she's just very sorry she offended anyone. Very sorry, indeed.

[T]

Perhaps we can team up? Want one of my Hanukkah hams? The season for Ramadan Ribs has passed, as has Passover Pork Chops, but Muharram Hocks are just around the corner!

Sounds like a great plan to me. I mean, if these people get so bent out of shape over a freakin' teddy bear a pork chop should cause a fatal myocardial event.

[matt]

As soon as I hit British soil, I'd have been very candid about how overreactionary the whole thing was, and I was just trying to teach their freakin' children, but screw you all--teach your own selves.

But no, she's just very sorry she offended anyone. Very sorry, indeed.

Maybe she Googled Salman Rushdie and let his ordeal inform her behavioral choices.

Fatwa's aren't cool, I don't want one.

[BakedPenguin]

Just in case anyone missed it, let me repost a link to this interview.

[T]

Fatwa's aren't cool, I don't want one.

I don't really want one, but it would be the perfect excuse to buy lots more guns.

[matt]

Again, you don't have English gun control laws to worry about.

[T]

Oh, I worry about English gun control laws, but more on an abstract, theoretical level. Living in Texas, gun control is kind of a non-issue here.

[Guy Montag]

I don't really want one, but it would be the perfect excuse to buy lots more guns.

If you really need any excuse then your guy card is revoked! Unless you need an excuse because of a hot chick, of course.

[Guy Montag]

T,

Do you have to do that whole "retreat" dance crap in Texas, or can you just cap the threat as soon as they start threatening your life like in Florida?

[T]

Nah, I don't need an excuse. Just the money.

The new law just went into effect, so I guess I should read up. AFAIK, the general rule in Texas is you have the right to use deadly force to protect your life and property, especially during the hours of darkness. We have a marvelous test case coming up next town over where the old guy shot two burglars. We'll see how that goes.

[Guy Montag]

the general rule in Texas is you have the right to use deadly force to protect your life and property, especially during the hours of darkness. We have a marvelous test case coming up next town over where the old guy shot two burglars. We'll see how that goes.

In TN, and I think VA too, it is only a right to protect life, you go to jail for protecting just property.

[Neu Mejican]

We have a marvelous test case coming up next town over where the old guy shot two burglars. We'll see how that goes.

Not sure you want that as a test case given the circumstances...then again, it will clarify that you can't use self-defense claims when you aren't defending yourself or your property.

[Mohammed was a pedophile]

"Yeah, those people on the street are angry because they are Muslim and that is what their faith tells them to do. Evil evil people. Those who say they hate the West for the bombing of the med factory, and for the constant and furthering of (what they perceive as) UN hostilities are nothing but whimps. Interventionism in peoples' affairs is fair game and legitimate. Keep going at it to eliminate the root cause of this evil. Oh, yeah, and internal politics has nothing to do with it either.

[/sarcasm]

On a serious note, my opinion that the protesters are petty, stupid and extremist was not sarcasm. These people need to grow up and live in the modern way. [no sarcasm here]"

Yeah, and the fact that Muslims rioted and murdered people over cartoons or called for the execution of Salman Rushdie or murdered nuns for what the pope said or murdered Christians and burned down businesses over a beauty pageant in Nigeria or butchered Catholic students in Indonesia or the "coincidental" fact all of the most oppressive, tyrannical, backward, poverty-stricken nations in the world are all majority muslim has nothing to do not with the fact that Islam is a backward religion founded by a murderous pedophile who converted by the sword rather than with reason, a trait that is still missing from Islam.

/sarcasm

On a serious note, you are a fucking idiot to even imply that calls for executing this teacher had any connection at all with the bombing of an aspirin factory over a decade ago. No surprise that you are in fact a muslim yourself. It must be a requirement of the religion to blame the West and Israel for an endemic backwardness that makes Dark Ages England look positively utopian in comparison.

[Nike Dunk Low]

thanks