Drug Policy

Drug Czar to Milton Friedman: Drop Deader

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The San Diego Union-Tribune's Chris Reed, fulfilled the dream of a lifetime by interviewing drug czar John Walters. The exchange, wonderfully rich in "libertarian griping," is invaluable. Here's a snippet:

I said to Walters that by any possible statistical reckoning of deaths, car wrecks, suicides, drownings, crimes of violence, etc., alcohol is vastly more destructive in the U.S. than all illegal drugs combined. I asked if he disputed this.

He didn't answer me directly even after I reposed the question. Basically, he said that while alcohol may be a big and destructive problem, the fact that alcohol is legal doesn't mean you don't try to reduce the use of other, illegal drugs. He said "the danger of marijuana today" is far greater than in the old days, thanks to its potency.

Did he in any way acknowledge the oddity of having a war on drugs that don't kill all that many people while tolerating drugs (alcohol, tobacco) which fill up graveyards 24-7?

Nope.

I said that many libertarians object to the drug war not just on the grounds that government shouldn't tell people what they can put in their bodies but on the grounds that the execution of the drug war routinely involves assaults on civil liberties. I cited past drug czars' eager touting of confiscation policies, in which a family could lose its only car without even a court hearing if one member were caught driving the car while in possession of pot. Did he see the drug war as diminishing civil liberties?

Walters offered a broad defense of asset-forfeiture tactics as being "designed to reduce the demand in a tangible way. … I'm not going to say" that "laws sometimes aren't misapplied," but claims that civil liberties are a routine victim of the drug war are "great misrepresentations" and a "great mischaracterization."

He said the "magnitude of the injustice" suffered in some cases was exaggerated.

Read the full thing here, especially the parts where the drug czar says the Milton Friedman's age-old critique of the drug war is just wrong, and feel good about someone speaking truth to power, at least for a glorious few minutes.

And then cry for all the damage wrought by America's longest war, for all the people rotting in jail, for all the lives utterly ruined by idiot bureaucrats such as Walters.

NEXT: Mixed Bag in the Middle East

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  1. I have a dream: Ron Paul takes the oath of office on January 21st, 2009, walks from the podium and signs an Executive Order that totally dismantles the DEA and BATFE.

    Then I wake up in a wet spot.

    I love dreaming.

  2. de stijl,
    Sadly no. This guy.

  3. He didn’t answer me directly even after I reposed the question.

    The slimy little bastards NEVER do. Nor do they have enough self-awareness to pose the question: if the cause I’m fighting for is right, why is it endangered by the truth?

  4. I don’t think I can read the full article. I’m already mad enough to toss my monitor through a fucking window.

    Why doesn’t Walters tell the families of the people that died in botched raids how their lives were merely “great misrepresentations” and a “great mischaracterization.”

  5. He’s a czar.

    What did Friedman ever do? Win a Nobel Prize? Be named by the Washington Post as one of the greatest minds of the 20th century?

    Feh! Fiddlesticks on that!

  6. When did the drug war start?

    If a date can be agreed upon, since that date:
    How many people has the drug war killed?
    How much has it cost?

    Put it on a t-shirt. “Americas Longest War”
    Profits to NORML, November Coalition, etc….

    /probably been done already, but what the heck…

  7. Is that gin blossoms on his face, or just bad lighting in his official portrait?

  8. The “magnitude of injustice” was exaggerated??

    I have no qualms initiating acts of injustice against you, what is really the crime is when you exaggerate the magnitude of the injustice.

  9. de stijl: Yes, he would make a MUCH better drug czar.

  10. Say whatever you want about the War on Drugs, you libertarian types, but at least we’re trying to keep those dangerous substances out of the hands of our children. Isn’t it worth the effort? Why are all you libertarians constantly defending the rights of drug dealers? And another thing: Alcohol is legal. Cocaine and meth are NOT. That’s why they’re so bad.

    rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

    Holy fuck, cognitive dissonance just split my brain wide open. Sorry. That was hard to write.
    Anybody got a joint?

  11. The problem with welfare programs like the DEA or the ONDCP is that the beneficiaries (the so called employees of those make-work programs) are encouraged to develop antisocial, slothful and self-destructive habits. After a few years, many beneficiaries are afraid to look for real productive work, have a sense of entitlement that others sould support them, and develop hostile attitudes towards their neighbors.

    The kindest thing one can do to the most antisocial of the bunch is to cut them off from benefits cold-turkey. Unfortunately, in the case of programs like the DEA and the ONDCP, the beneficiaries are given weapons and training on how to use them. Furthermore, a gang culture is encouraged wherein the welfare beneficiaries are sold a myth that they are warriors protecting society. The gang culture encouraged among welfare recipients like John Walters translates into a proclivity toward criminality and difficulty in earning a living through honest work. Thus, it is highly likely that should the welfare checks from the U.S. treasury get cut off, one would find many DEA agents taking up lives of crime and predating on the citizenry in more dramatic and undeniable a manner.

    It is a shame the guys like John Walters have chosen a life of parasitism and dishonest predation and turned their backs on civilized society. All that wasted potential…

  12. man is it possible to wish someone gets cancer inside of cancer? like a hard shell of cancer and then a soft, gooey nougat of cancer on the inside?

  13. wait alcohol is much more destructive than all other drugs combined? That’s obviously because it’s legal and readily accesible. If we make these drugs legal and readibly accessible we will see damage unlike anything ever seen.

  14. “””He said the “magnitude of the injustice” suffered in some cases was exaggerated.”””

    Come on people, you haven’t learned to understand this administration yet. Some cases are exaggerated like when the guy is crying
    injustice becuase he was busted with a joint.

    If you ask Walters about Radley’s work he would play dumb, and at best say “that is not what I was referring to”.

    These guys are actively try to get you to think they are saying something they are not. Such as we don’t torture. Oh, but those so called torture techniques are not really torture under our definition.

    To understand what Walters really means you would have to get him to define every word he used.

    The Bush admin does not work from the same dictionary as everyone else. It’s a requirement.

  15. I was just about to curse Radley for making my blood boil when I realized Nickie G authored this post. A pox on you overlord of the black leather jacket. I’m too pissed to concentrate at work now.

  16. hell, TrickyVick, it’s not just the Bush admin, it’s every goddamn Russian Potentate we’ve had since these administrative agencies were created.

  17. Last time I debated a DEA agent, he said that he was only trying to get the guys who made a profit off of drug dealing. I was flabbergasted. I knew there was a pinko commie streak in the DEA, but I didn’t realize how fundamental it was to their thinking.

  18. He said “the danger of marijuana today” is far greater than in the old days, thanks to its potency.

    Where do I get this stuff that’s so much more potent than the Hawaiian and Northern California sinsemilla I was smoking in the ’70s? That fuckin’ lie pisses me off every time I hear it.

  19. Clinton doubled the number of hemp arrests when he was in office, and he was a former pot head.

  20. He said the “magnitude of the injustice” suffered in some cases was exaggerated.

    Fuck that lying piece of shit!

    REMEMBER KATHRYN JOHNSTON!

    Ask her relatives if “the magnitude of the injustice” was exagerated?

  21. And then cry for all the damage wrought by America’s longest war, for all the people rotting in jail, for all the lives utterly ruined by idiot bureaucrats such as Walters.

    Blaming bureaucrats such as Walters makes no sense. He’s just doing the job we’ve hired him for, and if it wasn’t him it would be somebody else.

    The WoD is simply the way we control the poor people that our dog-eat-dog system of economics produces. You gotta take the good with the bad, I guess.

  22. “””Where do I get this stuff that’s so much more potent than the Hawaiian and Northern California sinsemilla I was smoking in the ’70s?”””

    The influx of Amsterdamish hydro? But that’s a maybe at best. I’ll give you old school Tai, Panama Red, and Ozark skunk bud too. (I think the latter was a hillbilly’s attempt at replicating the North CA sinse) But I have no idea what I’m talking about. At all.

  23. Fuck that lying piece of shit!

    REMEMBER KATHRYN JOHNSTON!

    Ask her relatives if “the magnitude of the injustice” was exagerated?

    Not our fault. That woman died because of the drug dealers, not because of the narcs.

  24. I seem to remember that one primary arguemtn in favor of outlawing marijuana back in the day was that Negro jazz musicians (the gansta rappers of the 20’s for the social conservatives of the time) were seducing white women with the aid of marijuana smoke. See all these misguided white women would go to jazz clubs instead of staying home and working on heightening their womanly virtues, listen to jaz, smoke some pot and lose all inhibitions, then the Negro musicians would pollute them with their seed by [pornographic fantasy born from repressed sexuality redacted].

    Yep, that’s why Benedict Arnolds like John Walters want to throw away the freedoms are ancestors fought so hard for.

    But it’s okay, he pins a flag on his lapel, which completely negates his betrayal of his country.

  25. Clinton doubled the number of hemp arrests when he was in office, and he was a former pot head.

    As near as I can tell, today’s drug war is driven by a bunch of old boomer hippies who saw the error of their ways as much as anything else.

    Just one more reason to hate my generation.

  26. And then cry for all the damage wrought by […] idiot bureaucrats such as Walters.

    Not to defend Walters, but it’s important to remember that without the idiot, craven politicians who passed the laws, that positions like Walters’ wouldn’t exist.

    And as much as I enjoyed (really!) Scooby’s cheap shot, “gin blossoms” (Rosacea) is an heredity-linked condition that can be exacerbated by alcohol consumption, but alcohol is neither the root, nor only, cause of outbreaks.

  27. As near as I can tell, today’s drug war is driven by a bunch of old boomer hippies who saw the error of their ways as much as anything else.

    I don’t know if it’s “the error of their ways” so much as it is snobbery: “Back in the day, I smoked a lot of pot with no ill effects. But I’m special, you see. I can handle it, whereas lesser folk can not. Therefore, now that I’ve outgrown my pot-smoking phase I’ll do my best to imprison (for their own good) those who have done the same thing I did.”

  28. tarran-

    “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.” — Harry J. Anslinger, first commissioner of the United States Bureau of Narcotics

  29. He said “the danger of marijuana today” is far greater than in the old days, thanks to its potency.

    Where do I get this stuff that’s so much more potent than the Hawaiian and Northern California sinsemilla I was smoking in the ’70s? That fuckin’ lie pisses me off every time I hear it.

    I think this argument is borne more out of ignorance than outright lies. I think that, up until recently, the DEA types thought the different names for different strands of pot were nothing but slang terms.

    They simply discovered that pot has varying grades of potency, and turned it into a “trend” toward more potent pot.

    These people are as clueless as they are evil.

    By the way, Czar and Tzar are Russian-ized versions of the word “Caesar.” Nothing more tyrannical than that. (Saw it on History Channel’s “Land of the Tzars” special. Great Show!)

  30. So, boys and girls, I have three questioms –

    1) What are the odds that John Walters will sit down to a lengthy, 1 on 1 interview with Chris Reed?
    2) What are the odds that Chris Reed is being investigated as we discuss this.

    3) What are the odds that Chris Reed wwill get framed by the drug warriors?

    Bonus question – Do I sound paranoid or reasonably suspicious?

  31. The drug war is driven by an establishment that has become addicted to it.

  32. The criminal known as “B-Stupid” was sentenced to 25 years in federal prison this week.

    Ivory Harris was convicted of drug and firearms charges. The U.S. attorney’s office said Harris boasted about dealing drugs on his MySpace page.

    On top of the drug charges, Harris has also agreed to plead guilty to a murder charge. Sentencing for that crime will take place in an Orleans Parish court in a few weeks.

  33. “”””There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.””””

    I’ll take Gene Krupa over Harry Anslinger any day.

  34. you see, the reefer actually slows down the jazz musician’s sense of time, allowing him to fit in those extra notes that shouldn’t be there…

  35. The Bonus bonus question is did J sub D and I just made that list?

  36. “””The drug war is driven by an establishment that has become addicted to it.”””

    Warren wins.

    We need to start a 12 step program for drug warriors.

  37. He said “the danger of marijuana today” is far greater than in the old days, thanks to its potency.

    This is the bullshitiest bullshit what ever shit out of a bull. Stronger means better. It means you smoke less. There is no such thing as overdosing on marijuana. Every single thing about marijuana being stronger makes is LESS of a danger. The drug warriors greatly exaggerate “how much more potent MJ is today”, and it’s total bullshit to begin with.

    I can’t believe they are allowed to open their mouth without getting bitchslapped by every reporter they talk to.

  38. Lying in the defense of tyranny is not a vice!

  39. But it’s okay, he pins a flag on his lapel, which completely negates his betrayal of his country.

    Wow. You’re right, I didn’t notice that before. I retract all my statements about Walters.

    He’s a really swell fellow!

  40. “you see, the reefer actually slows down the jazz musician’s sense of time, allowing him to fit in those extra notes that shouldn’t be there…”

    Man!

  41. Basically, he said that while alcohol may be a big and destructive problem, the fact that alcohol is legal doesn’t mean you don’t try to reduce the use of other, illegal drugs. He said “the danger of marijuana today” is far greater than in the old days, thanks to its potency.

    I dunno, yeah maybe he dodged the question. To me, it sounds like he didn’t dodge the question. I could rephrase the above for him:

    “No, I don’t dispute this, but who cares, that doesn’t mean we can’t clean up the garbage caused by illegal drugs. Besides, the potency of Marijuana is increasing and [catching up] to alcohol.”

    Do I agree with his sentiment? Hell no, but by omission, he answered the question: He doesn’t dispute the assertion.

  42. I also can’t take credit for my last statement as it was paraphrased from Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical”

    HILARIOUS!!

  43. I think this argument is borne more out of ignorance than outright lies. I think that, up until recently, the DEA types thought the different names for different strands of pot were nothing but slang terms.

    Au contraire, mon ami….

    I don’t think the DEA is ignorant on this issue. As a matter of fact, they are trying to exploit the ignorance of people regarding the more potent pot that is available today. Hence the “This isn’t your father’s pot” PSA’s of recent vintage.

    While the ads are seemingly directed to current pot smokers, the real target is their parents. As most lay folks, even former pot smokers, aren’t well versed in pharmacology, they won’t understand that the higher potentcy pot only gets you high more quickly. The DEA wants you to think it gets you higher than the pot of 20-30 years ago. It doesn’t. The DEA knows this. The ad is intended to alarm parents by making them believe “new pot” is more dangerous than their “old pot”.

  44. Clinton doubled the number of hemp arrests when he was in office, and he was a former pot head.

    jtuf, that’s because being a drug warrior buys votes.

    Clinton also presided over the beginnings of adding cigarettes to the drug war, and now he’s campaigning to fight our new front on the drug war: obesity and substances which cause it (trans-fats; soda etc.). Oh, largest steroid bust in history just announced.

    People like Chris Reed keep opening up their mouths about the dangers of alcohol, and they’re gonna reap the law of unintended consequences: some over-active legislator will move to ban that, too.

    The drig war isn’t shrinking, or even being weakened. It’s expanding exponentially right in front of our faces.

  45. Oh, largest steroid bust in history just announced.

    Put Standard Libertarian Disclaimer #4 here.

    If you do steroids for muscle mass gain, you’re an idiot!

  46. If you do steroids for muscle mass gain, you’re an idiot!

    The best part is that all the roid-heads said I was an idiot for smoking pot, back when I was in High School.

    I’m sure 5% of them died prematurely from heart attacks by now, and 100% now have tiny penises. Who’s the idiot now, acne boy.

    ***Of course, they should have every right to put that poison in their veins, but that doesn’t mean I have to like them***

  47. The Bonus bonus question is did J sub D and I just made that list?

    TrickyVic, Do you think the DEA monitors this site? In a free country like ours?

    ***Of course, they should have every right to put that poison in their veins, but that doesn’t mean I have to like them***

    That’s Standard Libertarian Disclaimer #4.


  48. “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.” — Harry J. Anslinger, first commissioner of the United States Bureau of Narcotics

    What a dumbass Anslinger, that’s ECSTASY not mary jane.

  49. Did anyone notice that Walter’s didn’t actually offer any evidence to back up his points that “‘magnitude of the injustice’ suffered in some cases was exaggerated” or that Friedman’s critique of the War On Drugs was wrong. All he does find new and better ways to say “No, it isn’t” to everyone on of Chris Reed’s points:

    The entire article reminds me of the following:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

  50. J sub D,

    I thought #4 was, “No, libertarian does not mean libertine.”

    *checks Libertarian handbook…*

    Nope, you’re right…

  51. I’m sure 5% of them died prematurely from heart attacks by now, and 100% now have tiny penises. Who’s the idiot now, acne boy.

    Yeah, but they still married that hawt cheerleader you were in love with when you were in chess club.

  52. I’m sure 5% of them died prematurely from heart attacks by now, and 100% now have tiny penises. Who’s the idiot now, acne boy.

    Yeah, but they still married that hawt cheerleader you were in love with when you were in chess club.

    Perhaps, but now that she’s crapped out six kids, which she has to back into the Geo once a month to pick up the family welfare check, well… you get the idea.

  53. …pack into the Geo…

    Dammit, I’ve read too many joe posts today, his inconvenient errors are starting to rub off…

  54. which she has to back into the Geo once a month to pick up the family welfare check, well… you get the idea.

    Nope, she’s that overly coiffed real-estate agent in business-professional attire and driving the H2.

  55. Oh Stacey, I never got to read you that poem I wrote for you…

    *sniff, sniff*

  56. Taktix? – You got a handbok? Jeez, now I’m ticked off!

  57. I hate coming into a thread late. It’s like sitting in the back of the classroom among the note-passers and spit-ball throwers.

    What I wanted to say is that what I hate about the War on Drugs is how it’s funding terrrorists right here in the ‘hood where the Little Woman and I live. It’s making it very difficult to be a gentrifier and grow property values.
    Besides, we don’t like our neighbors having such a revolving door relationship with the nearby jail.

  58. Dunno…(this hairless ape scratches head)…sure seems like you and this here Mr. Walters is tryn’ to paint one of them thar “left-liberal caricatures” that Mr. Sullum was dun talkin’ on yesterday in reference to Big ‘toni.

    This man sounds like a fine upstanding patriotic Amerikan to me.

  59. Yeah, but they still married that hawt cheerleader you were in love with when you were in chess club.

    Soon enough she’ll have sagging breasts, stretch marks and a fat ass. We can go at this all day…

  60. 3) What are the odds that Chris Reed wwill get framed by the drug warriors?

    Bonus question – Do I sound paranoid or reasonably suspicious?

    You’re unreasonably cautious. This should read:

    3) What are the odds that Chris Reed wwill get shot by the drug warriors?

  61. Soon enough she’ll have sagging breasts, stretch marks and a fat ass.

    Which will be removed with the plastic surgery she’ll get as soon as the family court rules thqt she can take her soon-to-be ex-husband for everything he owns.

    Then it’s off to Aspen with the pool boy she’s been fucking for the last few years.

  62. Interesting that there was more than one comment saying, more or less, that Walters is “just doing his job.” That is entirely irrelevant to any of the criticism he so rightly received in the article and in the comments. After all, I thought we were past giving people a break for simply following orders. Obviously, that a large percentage of the population is ignorant, stupid, foolish or apathetic (or all of the above) enough to continue to support the so-called “War on Drugs” (more a War on Freedom) is the cause of its continued existence. That fact hardly absolves those charged with its prosecution of responsibility for the morality of their actions.

    Walters, by freely accepting his position and seeking to carry out its immoral mission, is by all rights a brutal thug and deserves every bit of condemnation thoughtful people can heap on him without any need for equivocation or qualification. It’s times like these that I almost wish I could believe in hell because he, and every other so-called “War on Drugs” goon, would surely be destined to rot in it.

  63. tarran sez: were seducing white women

    BINGO! Give that man a kewpie doll. The war cry of the early, ignorant savages with tiny wee-wees was that some overly pigmented males would use [opium|weed|cocaine] to seduce white women.

    That particular battle cry lost its luster in the last generation or two, but fear not – the forces of intolerance found a new one. C’mon, you already know what’s coming…

    fur den Kindern MEIN FUHRER

    Oops, ah, I mean “for the children”. We gotta do it for the children.

  64. Soon enough she’ll have sagging breasts, stretch marks and a fat ass. We can go at this all day…

    No, she has an eating disorder, plus a good plastic surgeon. Plus she does high-impact aerobics like, sixteen times a day.

    I mean, it’s no picnic. She bursts into tears at random times during the day, her formerly steroid-using husband is an alcoholic who’s getting some from the 16 year old babysitter because she “understands” him, and she’s got a valium addiction. Other than that, you’re still missing out.

  65. People who think the Democrats are better than Republicans when it comes to personal liberty have been smoking pot.

  66. “What did Friedman ever do? Win a Nobel Prize? Be named by the Washington Post as one of the greatest minds of the 20th century?”

    And to think the man was a heavy user of drugs. Go figure!

  67. There’s some reason to suspect that the alcohol damage is also vastly overhyped, perhaps undermining the comparison. There are better reasons to stop the war on drugs, the chief one being a systemic instability in the system built to wage it.

    However, on alcohol, see the 1981 book by sociologist Joseph R. Gusfield, _The Culture of Public Problems : Drinking-Driving and the Symbolic Order_.

    He has follow-on books generalizing it a little, about how the route to political power is to invent a “public problem” and then take ownership of it.

    He writes very well for a sociologist. Which is to say it isn’t unreadable.

    And a hat tip to my friend F.T.Grampp, on MADD, “If it weren’t for the drunks, a lot of them wouldn’t be mothers.”

  68. Late to the thread, but to pick up on the “they seduce our white women” idea, have you ever REALLY watched the movie Traffic?
    Supposedly it’s an anti-“drug war” movie but it not only portrays most Mexicans (in the movie) badly, it has one of the most racist, button-pushing scenes right out of anti-drug hysteria – the pretty young white women kneeling in front of a huge dark black man….for her next high.

    Tell me again how “Traffic” is a message against the drug war.

  69. Uh, ladies and gentlemen go to the LEAP site and click on the 40 min video by Peter Crist given at a Rotary Club.

    The politicians are only doing the will of the people and he is right.

    LEAP

  70. Stipulating that the war on drugs is pretty much a waste of time and money, if you have a problem with it, you don’t go to the “idiot bureaucrats” (good way to sway them to your side, btw) but rather to the people that ACTUALLY MAKE THE LAWS. He does his job which is to enforce the laws the legislature makes. He has no law making powers.

  71. Supposedly it’s an anti-“drug war” movie but it not only portrays most Mexicans (in the movie) badly, it has one of the most racist, button-pushing scenes right out of anti-drug hysteria – the pretty young white women kneeling in front of a huge dark black man….for her next high.

    Which is used to support the premise that the drug war is an ineffective waste. Nobody ever said it was a pro-drug movie.

  72. tomwright | October 4, 2007, 3:50pm | #
    When did the drug war start?

    The drug war began when James Dobson became a speech writer for Nixon. The Evangelicals had walked out of the Democratic Party to join George Wallace and his American Independent Party. After Wallace lost, Dobson’s followers joined the Republican Party and Nixon rewarded them with the Holy Crusade they longed for…the War On Drugs.

  73. Did he in any way acknowledge the oddity of having a war on drugs that don’t kill all that many people while tolerating drugs (alcohol, tobacco) which fill up graveyards 24-7?

    You might acknowledge that one big reason why certain drugs don’t kill as many people as alchohol and tobacco as that they are outlawed.

    You have actually made a pretty good case for outlawing alcohol and tobacco though.

  74. He does his job which is to enforce the laws the legislature makes.

    We all know that – see my comment above. That doesn’t let him off the hook for being a willing part of it.

  75. The drug war began when James Dobson became a speech writer for Nixon.

    Joe Naborz,

    This is news to me. I couldn’t find anything in a Google search. Do you have a cite?

  76. Jim,

    Do you really think that because drugs are illegal, their availablity is in any way diminished? That people who want to use them can’t get them?

    And tell me, how did that alcohol prohibition work out the first time?

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