Now that You Mention It…

Fark headline:

Minnesota Twins postpone groundbreaking for new $1.1 billion stadium due to I35 bridge collapse. Apparently up until this week they didn't have any more pressing construction projects on which to spend that money.

Two-thirds of the stadium is publicly funded. The land was acquired through eminent domain.

Comments

[Bee]

Thor has spoken.

[Abdul]

Blaming the Minnesota Twins, eh?

This bridge collapse has Barry Bonds' name written all over it.

[de stijl]

Two-thirds of the stadium is publicly funded. The land was acquired through eminent domain.

I know it's blasphemous to support it because of the two facts mentioned above, but if you'ever been to a baseball game at the HHH Metrodome you may be willing to overlook these things.

[Cesar]

But...but...if we only repealed the Bush Tax Cuts For The Wealthy? we could fund both!!!!11one /sarcasm

[jf]

That is indeed a great headline.

Although I thought that city planners were infallible and knew what was best when it came to these things. Didn't they have a well-formed plan?

[Bee]

Checking this morning's headlines, BTW, the body count still seems miraculously low. For which I thank any god that cares to receive my gratitude.

[Cesar]

jf-

Clearly if the right people were in charge the plan would have worked!

[Michael Pack]

Let me see,taxpayers fund the NBA,MLB,NHL,NFL,ADM,MADD, but can't fix a bridge.

[P Brooks]

When the pork barrel has no bottom, there is no need to bother pretending some projects are more important than others. Git'cher free lunch here!

[Brian E]

Radley shoulda linked Peter Bagge's May cartoon Let's All Give Money to the Rich Man!

[Minion of URKOBOLD]

PEEK A BOO JF, THE URKOBOLD SEES YOU!

WOMBY!!!!!

[Lamar]

Boy, I can't wait until bridges start collapsing in Orlando! Our county and city governments are dumb as shit and are doing the same thing. The only difference is that they are giving the money to Rich Devos, a certifiable fruitcake fundie who founded a legal but morally questionalbe pyramid scheme.

[joe]

What makes you think city planners had anything to do with this?

Oh, right - you don't know what city planners do.

[Lamar]

Perhaps he meant city planners in the generic sense of "local government", in which case, he has a valid point.

[Sal Paradise]

"Oh, right - you don't know what city planners do."

Um, they post on Hit and Run all day?

[me]

Better a baseball field than a bridge in Alaska or subsidies to millionaire farmers.

[Pro Libertate]

Sal Paradise,

That's only the ex-city planners.

We pre-collapsed a couple of bridges here in Tampa--that's 'cause we're smarter than silly Minnesotans. And we have more lakes--ha!

[joe]

Oh, no, I posted on Hit and Run all day back when I was a City Planner, too.

Lamar,

That would be a better statement.

All the planners I know HATE big, expenseive stadium projects.

[crimethink]

joe,

I think it's guilt by association. Maybe if you planners didn't attend all the same parties as stadium proponents, this wouldn't have happened.

[Michael Pack]

me,your forgetting the fact that, because all of their places of buisness are publicly funded,taxpayers are paying the salaries of sport stars.If a NFL team,for example,had to build their 400 million dollar stadium do you think players would make what they do?They are the true welfare queens.Plus the value of a team is inflated due to the inflow of public funds.

[VM]

ProGLib - you're thinking of EX LION TAMERS.

[Dan T.]

At least libertarian baseball fans in Minnesota will be able to request tickets to sit in the third of the stadium that is not publicly funded.

[joe]

crimethink,

The political class who make these decisions seldom invite the hired help to their parties.

[Seitz]

But...but...if we only repealed the Bush Tax Cuts For The Wealthy? we could fund both!!!!11one /sarcasm

Interestingly, with what we've spent on the Iraq war so far, we could have built new state of the art stadiums for pretty much every professional sports franchise, and for every division athletic program in the country.

[Cesar]

Interestingly, with what we've spent on the Iraq war so far, we could have built new state of the art stadiums for pretty much every professional sports franchise, and for every division athletic program in the country.

Or we could have, you know, balanced the damn federal budget and begin to pay off the debt we owe. But hey, that would require fiscal sanity.

[Mutts]

::Two thirds of the stadium is publicly funded.

Looks like they also did two thirds of a job maintaining the bridge. God bless Governor Haircut and his government efficiency initiatives.

[Seitz]

Or we could have, you know, balanced the damn federal budget and begin to pay off the debt we owe. But hey, that would require fiscal sanity.

Yeah, or that. I was just trying to provide some perspective. Thought I'd like to see the government pay for new stadiums at UC Riverside and the University of Illinois, but I'm selfish.

[joe]

Cesar,

I had that same thought last night. Jack Cafferty asked viewers to email in with their ideas of what we should do, instead, with the money we're spending on the Iraq War.

My answer: We don't have to come up with a bunch of ideas for what to do with that money. We're already doing it. If we end the Iraq War, we can do everything we're doing now, except the national debt won't be growing faster than inflation.

[ChrisO]

If a NFL team,for example,had to build their 400 million dollar stadium do you think players would make what they do?

Let's ask the Washington Redskins, who play in a privately-built stadium, and who have gained a reputation for overpaying players.

Apart from a few markets, the owners soak the public simply because they can, not because they need the money to pay players.

[XON]

"Or we could have, you know, balanced the damn federal budget and begin to pay off the debt we owe. But hey, that would require fiscal sanity."

Hell, it would just require a little regular sanity. . .

[joe]

Robert Kraft and the Patriots are another example. After the state refused to build him a stadium, he was going to move the team to Hartford. When that deal fell through, he came back, built a great stadium with private funding, and is hailed as the best businessman in the NFL. I think the state spent $10 million on roads and sewers, to back up his $400 million investment.

[Brandybuck]

The only difference is that they are giving the money to Rich Devos, a certifiable fruitcake fundie who founded a legal but morally questionalbe pyramid scheme.

What?!?! The guy who spent his entire career promoting "free enterprise" is on the gub'ment corproate dole? The damned hypocrite should go back to selling soap!

[seer]

I know it's blasphemous to support it because of the two facts mentioned above, but if you'ever been to a baseball game at the HHH Metrodome you may be willing to overlook these things.

This. The Metrodome is evil to every one except the Twins and they owe it to everyone to get a new stadium.

[Michael Pack]

Jack Kent Cooke was a man of princple.He refused to take tax dollars,he didn't think it proper.His family had to seel aftr his death due to estate taxes.Dan Snyder bought the team and it's assets.The NFL shares much revenue between teams[TV nad such].Every team lives on the dole.The NFL could not exsist as it is without public money.Oh,tehPats are know for being very tight fisted with players,and pay for their stadium.

[joshua corning]

What makes you think city planners had anything to do with this?

Lets see...city planners plan for roads....

Instead of planning for a deficient bridge, which collapsed, then planned for a stadium.

[Ammonium]

If Minneapolis has city planners planning their roads, they've got big problems.

Not to mention that the city probably has very little to do with that bridge.

[Chavez is a thug]

"What makes you think city planners had anything to do with this?

Oh, right - you don't know what city planners do"

And I guess you do. That is another area I must add to your ever-growing list of subjects in which you are an expert.

[chris]

Slightly OT, but the stupidity of one throwaway remark really annoyed me. The Patriots are NOT tight-fisted. They're smart-fisted. Over the last several years, they have always spent to near the cap. That they choose to spend WISELY and try to avoid overpaying players based on sentiment does NOT make them tight-fisted. When they decline to overpay, lazy journalists declare them cheap.

As an ex-Bostonian, I was happy that the state told Kraft to piss off--I'd rather see the Red Sox leave than have the state build them a park.

[Cruz]

"What makes you think city planners had anything to do with this?

OH - they have a LOT to do with it.

"Two-thirds of the stadium is publicly funded. The land was acquired through eminent domain."

Well I hope this will be a big blow to the Maloof's. Good. They have acted like a bunch or arrogant schmucks in Sacramento.

[Keith]

The public money for that stadium is coming from a Hennepin County only staidum tax. If the bill to assess that tax had been defeated the money would never have been collected at all.

[JorgXMcKie]

I know what (most) city (urban) planners do. They attempt to use the law (and zoning ordinances, etc) to force citizens to do with their personal resources that which they would otherwise not do. This is because planners know more and know it better than individual resource holders. For instance, the sheeple should use mass transit whether it makes sense or not, and they should live in high-density settlements whether they want to or not.

Planners are, of course, are exempt.

[Jimmie]

Was there not a story reported by Ed Morrissey (at Captain's Quarters) Friday morning that said there was plenty of money available to repair the bridge?

Apparently, a repair was not recommended. Don't blame the Twins or their baseball park. I know it's hip for Libertarians to do that, but it doesn't seem even remotely warranted here.

[celebrim]

As everyone in south Louisiana knows, before Katrina, the single most discussed matter of politics in the state was whether the state should pony up the money to keep the Saints from moving to the other LA.

The money to fix the levies was there. The people of NO just had other priorities. Like, for example, lock and canal expansion to allow access to the city by larger private boats. And a new stadium for a privately owned football corporation.

[Lamar]

City planners might decide where roads go, but (1) their decisions are hampered by myriad variables and (2) they don't decide how much money goes into servicing those roads, at least not past the intial assessment. Joe's pretty much right on this one. They're more concerned with development and sprawl, not how many engineers are testing the worthiness of a certain highway.

[cruz]

The bridge was union built right?

Is anyone else sort of even close to admitting the elephant in the living room?

Unions.

[Will Allen]

Not to defend stadiums built by taxpayers, or the abuse of eminent domain, but this particular property owner who is being "forced" to sell ain't exactly the poster child for anti-eminent domain movement. He lobbied against taxpayer built stadiums, until he realized there was a buck to me made, acquired some property, and then lobbied like hell to have taxpayers build a stadium on the land. Once the bill got passed, he asked for a large price for the land, having known when he was lobbying for the stadium that even if the land was condemned he'd make a very good profit. The guy is a taxpayer-based land speculator.

[Mister Snitch!]

"because all of their places of buisness are publicly funded,taxpayers are paying the salaries of sport stars"

It's encouraging to see at least some people pointing this out. And as others have pointed out - it only happens because some owners can get away with it. So the Twins (or whoever) will 'be forced to' move without public financing? LET 'EM. Let them see if the grass is greener for a third New York team, or another Anaheim-Oakland area team, or if maybe your league of choice can be persuaded to expand to Cuba. Let them GO. And watch the BETTER deals rush in to fill the void when that bluff is called in this sports-saturated country. NEXT!

[davod]

Blame Bush? Sorry

U.S. President George Bush signed a $286.4 billion six-year transportation reauthorization bill Aug. 10, 2005 that covers federal fiscal years 2004-09. Although the details of the reauthorization package are still being reviewed, Minnesota state and local governments can expect to receive about $3.5 billion in federal transportation funding through 2009, an increase of about 46 percent (or about $1.1 billion) over the previous six-year bill. . The $1.1 billion is the same amount it will cost to build a stadium (mostly at goverment expense) in Minnesota.

[JHoward]

Let's see, a number of MN citizens dead.

And these destructive government types aren't under criminal investigation...why?

[Matt]

"because all of their places of buisness are publicly funded,taxpayers are paying the salaries of sport stars"

This statement isn't precisely correct. Just like any other business, teams pay their employees (players) equal to or less than the marginal revenue they generate for the company. For example, Arod is payed 20+ million only because Steinbrenner(sp?) makes 20 million or more from his being on the team.

The question, then, is whether new stadiums increase the potential for players to generate revenue. Perhaps more skyboxes increase the possible payoff for better players. The rest of the extra taxpayer money then goes straight into the owner's pockets, just as, funny enough, GWB benefited from Tarrant County building The Ballpark in Arlington.

So, either way, taxpayer money for stadiums benefits only those who need the least health. With the positive externalities looking non-existent, stadiums will remain a stupid use of taxpayer money.

[Andrew]

Ah, the little liberal empire of Minneapolis/St. Paul (home of Garrison Keillor) appeases the crowds with Bread and Circuses but fails to help maintain the infrastructure.

[red]

Interestingly, with what we've spent on the Iraq war so far, we could have built new state of the art stadiums for pretty much every professional sports franchise, and for every division athletic program in the country.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

Interestingly, with what we've spent on the war on poverty so far we could have given each poor person in the country fifty thousand dollars and a cadillac.

Interestingly, with what we've spent on pre-school education so far we could have given each poor person in the country fifty thousand dollars and a cadillac.

Interestingly, with what we've spent on ethanol far we could have given each poor person in the country fifty thousand dollars and a cadillac.

That is such a fun arguement! Thanks!