Tonight on The Independents: Red Meat Wednesday, With Ron Paul, Robert Bryce, Jedediah Bila, Tom Shillue...and Rick Santorum!

Successfully resists making ancient Internet joke in alt text. |||Tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, repeats three hours later) starts off with what is sure to be a robust exchange of views with once and future GOP presidential hopeful (and inveterate libertarian-basher) Rick Santorum, who will be discussing his new book Blue Collar Conservatives: Recommitting to an America That Works. For a partial list of Santorum's previous affronts to libertarianism, click here.

Party Panelists tonight are comedian/singer Tom Shillue and Token Lefty Rick Ungar, who will talk about senatorial candidate Ben Sasse's GOP primary win in Nebraska, why feeding homeless people is a crime, and the $1.2 billion Obamacare contractor that pays its employees to do nothing much at all.

Beloved ex-congressman Ron Paul will come on to talk about the effects that state-legal pot is having on Mexican drug cartels; author/energy analyst Robert Bryce talks about his new book Smaller Faster Lighter Denser Cheaper: How Innovation Keeps Proving the Catastrophists Wrong; and guest co-host Jedediah Bila will help tackle the question of what you would do if you found out your significant other's father was a serial killer.

Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN; follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, tweet out during the show and it might be used. And click on this page for more video of past segments.

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  • GILMORE||

    WTF

    I think people were still posting on *last nights* thread when they put this up

    That said, my latest variation on the Boko Haram meme =

    https://imgflip.com/i/8p6qv

    trying to perfect this

  • Monty Crisco||

    ^ I up-twinkled this

  • sloopyinca||

    The thing that really gets me about those guys is that their song "A Whiter Shade Of Pale" is so overrated that they turned to a life of Islamic terrorism. I mean, it's still being played in movies from time to time so they ought to just accept the level of notoriety they've achieved and stop the terrorism.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Overrated? What, you don't like Bach.

  • sloopyinca||

    I like my Bach to be more...Bach-y and less hippie.

    Drug-addled hippies and classical music just don't go together. As witnessed by their turning to islamic fundamentalism and kidnapping.

    Unless these are the guys that hijacked flight 370 and they're gonna stick all the girls on the plane and fly them somewhere else as the SEALs close in on them. Then they'd be freaking awesome.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I suppose you don't like Al Beatles, either.

  • ||

    GILMORE, as much as I loved the full-fledged Cash Money Millionaires edition, I think your first effort was your best, copy-wise.

  • GILMORE||

    I agree that these sorts of things really don't "get funnier" with age.

  • Army of the 12 Monkeys||

    I might have chuckled at a "Jazz Hands for Jihad" meme. Or maybe "Loco for Boko".

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Freed from the shackles of watching the Pens stumble inconsistently through the playoffs, I will watch this show. Although I don't think it's going to be live, is it?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    You'll get to see another frothy piece of shit from Pennsylvania, so maybe this won't be the best transition?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I sat behind him at a Pens game once at the old Civic Arena. Make of that what you will.

  • Tim||

    Penis game?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The internet is no place to be crass.

  • Tim||

    Reason comments are a symphony of crass. Who else takes to rape jokes with such...gusto?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    90% of the Internet gives the other 10% a bad name.

  • Tim||

    I'm part of the majority. AT LAST!

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Usenet HyR commenters are like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.

    – Gene (spaf) Spafford (1992)

  • Sudden||

    Now that's how you take the puck and score. You win one internetz Serious Man

  • BigT||

    Haven't you guys figured it out yet? Matt posts this a short time after they finish recording it - that's why it's early, so he can go drinking, whoring, and drug-abusing (lucky man).

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Gilmore would add, "and shopping for clothes at the Bargain Bin."

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Don't look at me, *I* didn't say it!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Oh, and also, THIS POST IS UP TOO EARLY.

  • ||

    I've manically shouted at the wind and barked at Mars but does Matt hear its yelps and cries?

    Nooooo.

  • ||

    Over/under on seconds it takes for Santorum to call Matt a homo: 40.

  • Brett L||

    Sometimes I wonder if Santorum just isn't intelligent enough to figure out there's a difference between libertarian and libertine.

  • RBS||

    Maybe, but plenty of people who are allegedly smarter than Santorum can't seem to figure it out either.

  • LynchPin1477||

    He graduated from Penn State, as did I. I should sue him for devaluing my degree. Oh well. It's a better school today than it was when he was there.

  • sloopyinca||

    I bet Santorum was big in the football locker room a decade ago.

  • Army of the 12 Monkeys||

    Not at first, but then he grew.

  • Dweebston||

    +6"

  • Tim||

    He's not that hardcore. He's Ned Flanders.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Over/under on hammy tears quip: 60 sec

  • Loki||

    Over under on seconds before one of the hosts makes an anal sex joke: 0.5

  • Ska||

    As long as it's not described as an inappropriate anal sex joke.

  • Idle Hands||

    Over.
    Over/under longest Kennedy allows him to talk without interrupting him: 10.5 sec

  • ||

    I'll take the under.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    More important bet: will Kennedy be able to resist making a 'Santorum' joke or pun?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I'm sure this show is too classy for...

    Oops, I *thought* I could complete that sentence without giggling.

  • Army of the 12 Monkeys||

    I'm not sure it is possible to complete that sentence, after seeing last night's after-show.

  • Tim||

    "And now we invite you into our Sanctum Rick Santorum..."

    Wakka wakka.

  • Soros' Wank-noose||

    Has Rick ever been on Stossel? If not, I am choosing to see this as a win for both the show AND the libertarian brand to get him on and have, well, whatever is going to happen.

    Gonna go positive before I go negative realistic

  • Hyperion||

    SWEATER VEST! Hey, that was my idea, where's my hat tip?

  • GILMORE||

    The easiest question for Rick Santorum which no one will ever ask,

    "So = Why don't you have a job in politics anymore?"

    also = Why is it Lefties never, ever, ever, ever, ever actually have to defend their failed policies?

    Meaning = I to this day can not find a single fucking liberal who will admit to having ever supported Ethanol.

    And when I ask why then they don't seem to be at all interested in agitating to UNDO the fucking policy, they condescend to let me know that "there are far worse things in the world".

    Forget the ()#*$@# communist, Independents = get a Lefty who actually will DEFEND SHITTY LEFTY POLICIES. Like, say, 'shutting down charter schools!'. No other show on television will strap a lefty into a chair and force them to answer direct questions: Why can't You!?!

  • ||

    Meaning = I to this day can not find a single fucking liberal who will admit to having ever supported Ethanol.

    Al Gore apologized for his support of ethanol and it was rather entertaining.

    I'm really confused by your use of "=" is it like db and his periods?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.

    Shorter version - "I'm a whore"

  • GILMORE||

    "I'm really confused by your use of "=" is it like db and his periods?

    Yes, I have a problem.

    I go goofy with punctuation in my internet-talk. As in, use way too much of it in attempt to add 'vocal inflection'. Sometimes its effective; sometimes its very distracting. Its hardly ever 'editor-correct'

    In this case, maybe its a case where Hyphens are better? Or maybe just drop the whole 'clause setup'? I don't know.

    I internet-type how I talk, not how I 'write'.

    Somewhere, there's a grad student who has already done their (unreadable) masters thesis on this topic.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Some guy already gave a TED talk on how texting is more like speaking than writing. Get with the times.

  • ||

    I'm really confused by your use of "=" is it like db and his periods?

    jesse I love you but step off GILMORE and his personal punctuation preferences.

  • BakedPenguin||

    You like it? You really are the worst.

  • ||

    This isn't about who is the worst, but about GILMORE being the best.

  • GILMORE||

    Well at least *someone* noticed.

    (brushes that dirt off his shoulder)

  • ||

    It wasn't a criticism, I'm just trying to understand his brilliance, jeez Nicole, you really are the worst, no matter what Serious says about kibby.

  • sarcasmic||

    Leftists truly believe ad hominems to be compelling arguments. So when you see them personally attacking critics of their policy, in their mind that's defense of the policy.

  • Libertarian||

    I'm in the middle of reading Mencken's "Chrestomathy." God, how I wish he were around today.

    What he said about the vaunted farmer:

    "No more grasping, selfish and dishonest mammal, indeed, is known to students of the Anthropoidea. When the going is good for him he robs the rest of us up to the extreme limit of our endurance; when the going is bad be comes bawling for help out of the public till. Has anyone ever heard of a farmer making any sacrifice of his own interests, however slight, to the common good? Has anyone ever heard of a farmer practising or advocating any political idea that was not absolutely self-seeking–that was not, in fact, deliberately designed to loot the rest of us to his gain?"

  • GILMORE||

    This is reminiscent of the speech Kikuchiyo (Toshiro Mifune) makes in Seven Samurai about the essential venality and greed of farmers*...

    And @#$*(@()#* OMG here's a bunch of kids re-enacting that =

    http://youtu.be/e_oPwkDF35g

    The Internet: it has Everything.

    (*Note: best scene by best actor in best movie ever made of all time in any language.)

  • PapayaSF||

    Great book. Read it last year.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "Rick Santorum"

    What on earth would induce him to appear on *this* show?

    "who will be discussing his new book"

    Oh, of course. If I were promoting a book, I'd do any show I could. If only to get viewers to hate-buy my work.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "So, you guys want to ask about my book?"

    http://www.joyforevermore.com/.....Daniel.jpg

  • Injun, as in from India||

    I hope someone asks Santorum if he would consider taking a job in the private-productive sector, instead of going through the revolving door of government and lobbying. I want to see him foaming at the mouth with a frothy mix of...

  • Pathogen||

    "with a frothy mix of...

    Oily discharge?

  • Tim||

    If Godzilla were real, he'd step on this show.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Then he'd wash his feet thoroughly.

  • Jerry on the sea||

    Kennedy & Matt should wear matching pink sweater vests just to troll Santorum.

  • Monty Crisco||

    "Allegedly smarter than Santorum"... talk about damning with faint praise! Wow, should be a dime-size hurdle, that one, with that sancticmonious asshat... he's a helluva huckster, though!

  • Pro Libertate||

    I remember Santorum's son well. The one with the thousand-yard stare. I wonder if he's killed anyone yet?

  • sloopyinca||

    This isn't Massachusetts, Pro Lib.

  • Loki||

    Note to Kennedy (or Matt or Kmele): I will give you just about any sum of money, and I'm sure others in the H&R commentariat would be willing to kick in a few buck apiece if need be, for you to call Rick Santorum "Dicky Cumfarts" to his face tonight.

    Let's make this happen.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Payable in Bitcoin?

  • Loki||

    Payable in Bitcoin, blow, hookers, or fresh orphans for their diamond mines. Or cash, just no credit cards. Wouldn't want it to be traceable.

  • ||

    So is this thread where I come to observe the peanut gallery while the show is airing? Talking pundithead shows are not my thing, but I'm up for reading about what Frothy Rick has to say as told by the reason commentariat.

  • ||

    GOOBA GABBA GAY MARRIAGE
    WAKKA WOOGA LIBERTINES
    OOGA BOOGA JESUS

  • ||

    Thing is, I've never heard of him confronting libertarians to their faces before. It's always behind the printed word or a podium. I wanna hear about some smackdownage, goddammit.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Derp Wednesday (courtesy of Raw Story). From an article that actually criticizes Picketty:

    pjwhite • 5 hours ago
    Capitalism does not generate wealth. Workers generate wealth, and workers deserve to benefit from that wealth.

    Agamemnon_man • 4 hours ago
    Warning, Warning (paid for talking point): "Piketty ignores the wealth creation component of economic outcomes in his analysis."

    phatkhat • 2 hours ago
    Why is this rightwing hit piece on Raw in the first place? It is blatant 1% bullshit.

    JennOfArk • an hour ago
    Such a lot of bullshit just to avoid stating the obvious problem (labor has been systematically undervalued in the global economy for the past 30 years while capital has been overvalued) and solution (raise wages). Solves both sides of the "problem" as they see it, that "The role of an economy is to generate wealth and distribute that wealth equitably."

    This neither adds nor subtracts from the total wealth as it stands at the current time, though it does start to move more of it away from the 1% when wages go up. As the wealth gets reapportioned through higher wages, it will lead to higher demand for products and services across the board, which will generate more jobs and more wealth.

    This shit is only hard if you're trying to avoid fixing it
  • ||

    Great, now I'm actually going to go read Raw Story.

  • juris imprudent||

    I had no idea you were that easy.

  • Irish||

    Such a lot of bullshit just to avoid stating the obvious problem (labor has been systematically undervalued in the global economy for the past 30 years while capital has been overvalued) and solution (raise wages). Solves both sides of the "problem" as they see it, that "The role of an economy is to generate wealth and distribute that wealth equitably."

    I'm sure the billions of people who have risen out of poverty since the 1980's are so upset about their labor being 'undervalued' that they're crying into all the food that they can now afford.

  • sloopyinca||

    Well, I've officially exhausted my job opportunities in California. We're packing up the homestead as we speak and heading toward that giant sucking vortex on the Potomac. At least the wife's skill set is in high demand there.*

    *I will find the first person that makes a sexual/pregnancy joke here.

  • ||

    At least you know there's a bunch of us assholes to take care of you when you get here!

    Where should we have our Welcome Banjoes & Sloopy To the Biggest Shithole on Earth Party?

  • sloopyinca||

    Not sure yet. With the luck I've had lately it'll be somewhere in SE.
    Her job prospects are all set. Anybody got anything for me? Or am I going to have to fully pursue my dream of writing for H&R?

  • Pro Libertate||

    I hear the Secret Service has some openings.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm sure they already have my resume on file. If they want me, they know where to find me.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Seriously, how about Cato?

  • ||

    And the Mercatus Center.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'd kill to work for either of those. I'd honestly prefer to get a gig at Reason if they'd have me. I've written enough and many of them know me. It's not really far-fetched.

    Anybody have any connections/stroke with any of the libertarian-leaning orgs that I might exploit?

  • Pro Libertate||

    I don't know how it is now, but you used to be able to do freelance research work for Cato. Probably pays shit, but it might be a way in. And, of course, if you want to be a Reason serf, you can submit articles for publication.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Also, here's Cato's jobs list, which includes a call for papers.

  • ||

    You might see if someone like Justin Amash needs a legislative assistant or something. Isn't Ron Paul's PAC here also? I'll see if I know anyone at Mason, but I'm not really plugged into the movers & shakers in DC

  • sloopyinca||

    Pretty sure RP's PAC is in Texas.

    I'll troll Capitol Hill and the .orgs, but I have reached out to Reason's HR (Amy Pelletier) and Mercatus about a MA fellowship I would quite enjoy.

    Cross your fingers for me.

  • SweatingGin||

    If you end up in MD (ugh), you should make an exception to the usually username, and instead put it as "sloopy,md".

    Then give medical advice/impersonate a doctor

  • sloopyinca||

    It's too late to resuscitate my amateur gynecological practice. I got off lucky the last time.

    No, I think "sloopyinhell" will suffice.

  • Big Chief||

    Have you ever considered teaming up with Balko? You seem like a natural fit for his beat. I'd think with him being in Nashville he might be able to use someone in DC.

  • sloopyinca||

    He's writing for WaPo. I doubt he'd need someone local.

    Having said that, I did just send him an e-mail. I wonder if he remembers me and dunphy going at it on his threads?

  • ||

    What's yer profession? How committed are you to keeping your principles in tact no matter what? I find as a libertarian in the DC area, I have to have some flexibility in that area, as much as it irks me.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm pretty ardent, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking the system down from within. Kara's going to work for a law firm (haven't decided which one yet) doing patent prosecution.

    I honestly want to write if at all possible.

  • ||

    Cato and Mercatus, then. Get your resume in there. They usually have some sort of openings, even if they're junior-level.

  • ||

    I will find the first person that makes a sexual/pregnancy joke here.

    So...you?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    *I will find the first person that makes a sexual/pregnancy joke here.

    Would a joke about 'The Handmaiden's Tale' count?

  • Brandon||

    I know how she can make 14 dollars the hard way.

  • Brandon||

    Seriously, squirrels? THIS comment you allow?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    When is the going away party?

  • sloopyinca||

    Not sure there's time for one. Long Beach this weekend perhaps? We're planning on pulling out Saturday.*

    *Third cross-country drive in a 2 week stretch and Kara's driven a grand total of 1 hour.

  • Virginian||

    *Third cross-country drive in a 2 week stretch and Kara's driven a grand total of 1 hour.

    Fuck the TSA right?

  • sloopyinca||

    Pretty much, man.

    Well, that and we actually have courtesy for fellow travelers and wouldn't want Baby Reason and Baby Liberty on a cross-country flight going batshit.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I drug my kids for that reason. If they need it.

  • Tejicano||

    Man, If I were back in the US right now - assuming you'd be swinging through ABQ - I'd offer to loan you three of anything in my arsenal just to know you guys would be safe the rest of the way. I even have a buddy from the Marines who is just outside DC where you could have dropped them off on that end.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I think Sloopy's got that covered.

  • Tejicano||

    But coming out of the PRK I suspect he has constraints that my hardware doesn't. At the very least I would lend him full-capacity mags for whatever hardware hs does have.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Best wishes for both of you!

  • sloopyinca||

    Thanks.

  • Irish||

    At least the wife's skill set is in high demand there.*

    I didn't know having terrible taste in men was in such high demand in Washington.

  • sloopyinca||

    That's not a career, its her lifestyle. There's a big difference.

  • Dweebston||

    I'm hoping to move to San Francisco this fall... for no better reason than I've a friend willing to put me up. Any chance I can pick up a job you've foregone?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I'm in the middle of reading Mencken's "Chrestomathy." God, how I wish he were around today.

    Mencken was in very large part responsible for the monster I am today.

  • GILMORE||

    The Squirrels
    be eatin mah posts

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Where should we have our Welcome Banjoes & Sloopy To the Biggest Shithole on Earth Party?

    Jefferson Memorial, duh.

  • ||

    You fuckers are retarded. The space museum, clearly.

  • ||

    Which one, though?

  • ||

    I don't know, I've only been to one. Whichever has the most Neil Armstrong memorabilia.

  • Swiss Servator, CH yeah!||

    +1 baseball bat

  • ||

    No alkiehol allowed at the monument to the Founding Father that was a committed vintner!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    SANTORUM [to agent]: OK, what shows do I plug my book on today?

    AGENT: Well, there's Jim and Bob's Morning Blab in Peoria, the Book Hour on EWTN, and the Independents...

    SANTORUM: Never heard of that last one, is it any good?

    AGENT: I'm not sure I'd call it good, but they really seemed eager to have you on.

    SANTORUM: Well, I don't know if they agree or disagree with me, but at least they'll let me talk!

    AGENT:

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    ...I can't promise that.

  • Big Chief||

    Sure, you'll be fine as long as finishing a sentence doesn't matter to you.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Why is Ungar coming on? To make Santorum look bright and honest? Ungar is a mentally-challenged troll. If you don't make mincemeat of him I'm forsaking this show.

  • GILMORE||

    " If you don't make mincemeat of him I'm forsaking this show."

    We're beginning to sound like abused spouses who never leave.

  • Army of the 12 Monkeys||

    We're beginning to sound like abused spouses who never leave


    We don't know how to quit you, Independents !

  • GILMORE||

    Setting Abused Spouse-Syndrome aside for a moment =

    is it possible that having discarded, godforsaken ex-political shit-floggers like Santorum or Carlos Danger as guests is maybe *less productive* than, say, 'lesser known' and far less revolting human beings who might be able to actually able to contribute to some kind of productive policy discussion?

    I'd never heard of this Bryan Suits guy before he showed up, and I've liked his appearances so much I think he should be a regular.

    by contrast, nothing out of the mouth of Anthony Weiner has done anything but reinforce my utter disgust and contempt for him.

    I don't expect any better from Santorum; nor do I think Ungar - who writes that Government Spending is Part of GDP, and GDP is Good, Therefore DERP!MOAR!!.. is going to say anything remotely approaching 'intellectual honesty'

    In other words - these shitbags do not really provide any real value, and I feel like giving their odious ideas airtime does no one any good. They don't even make good Piñatas since TI wear kid-gloves with guests.

    So why not use the platform to allow a wide variety of 'small(er) time' libertarian personalities to get their voice heard?

    I'm really having a hard time seeing why that would be *less* appealing to a broad audience than the current "TMZ-lite" programming.

  • Big Chief||

    Do you have a newsletter, or TV show, that I could peruse?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Master shipbuilder who spent years fighting the Newport Beach City council for the right to restore a 72 foot long boat on his own property, has died of cancer

    A master shipwright who spent the last years of his life fighting Newport Beach City Hall over whether he could restore a 72-foot boat in his residential yard has died.

    Dennis Holland lost a battle with prostate cancer Monday night, a family friend told the Daily Pilot. He was 68.

    Holland became an Orange County celebrity in the early 1980s when he spent 13 years building a replica of a 118-foot Revolutionary War-era tall ship in his yard and launched it in Newport Harbor.

    [...]
    In 2006, Holland moved the Shawnee into his backyard, this time in Newport Beach.

    "Once you're committed to a boat like her, it's like a marriage,” he told The Times. “If there are obstacles, you don't tear the marriage apart and say, 'I just can't make it work.' "

    But when the work dragged on, neighbors complained, and the city sued Holland, saying a residential neighborhood wasn't the place for a 72-foot ship undergoing long-term restoration.

    In 2012, Holland agreed to dismantle the Shawnee, and an Orange County Superior Court judge appointed an official to enforce a deadline.

    By December 2012, everything down to the Shawnee's ribs were stripped and hidden from the neighbors' view

    Sad. Hope somebody finishes it for him.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

  • Irish||

    New York Times fires Jill Abramson for being 'pushy' and demanding she be paid the same as her male predecessor.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Oh man, this is just brilliant. I guess this proves what I've long felt. Liberals don't actually believe any of the things they tell the rest of us they believe.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    "Spare me your flimsy 'iceberg' excuses. I demand a state room as big as Bill Keller's. NOW."- Jill Abramson, Titanic passenger

    — David Burge (@iowahawkblog) May 15, 2014


    [removed][removed]

  • PapayaSF||

    Brilliant.

  • ||

    Why do you think they project insidious motives and bad behavior on everyone else? Because they assume we're all as lying, venal, and false as they are.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    McDonald's 'hires' 7000 new automated, touchscreen cashier terminals for its European market

    McDonalds recently went on a hiring binge in the U.S., adding 62,000 employees to its roster. The hiring picture doesn't look quite so rosy for Europe, where the fast food chain is drafting 7,000 touch-screen kiosks to handle cashiering duties.

    The move is designed to boost efficiency and make ordering more convenient for customers. In an interview with the Financial Times, McDonald's Europe President Steve Easterbrook notes that the new system will also open up a goldmine of data. McDonald's could potentially track every Big Mac, McNugget, and large shake you order. A calorie account tally at the end of the year could be a real shocker.

    The touch screens will only accept debit or credit cards, adding to the slow death knell of cash and coins. This all goes along with an overall revamp of McDonald's restaurants worldwide aimed at projecting a modern image as opposed to the old-fashioned golden arches with a slightly creepy (to my taste anyway) clown guy hanging around the french fries.

    This is a McDonald's cashier. This is a McDonald's cashier on a $15 minimum wage.

  • kibby||

    Guess we'll have to find new career paths.

  • ||

    Sad. Did I not post my pics from the Berlin train station?

    I know I sent it to my proggy friend who was waving the increased minimum wage banner.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I warned everyone that drastically raising the minimum wage would mean fast-food robots.

  • BigT||

    Habs kicking Bruins in great game tonight.

  • ||

    Speed kills.

  • Swiss Servator, CH yeah!||

    I am gorging on the laments and tears of Bruins fans, as we speak!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Uh, if I can't comment reliably on this episode why bother watching it?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!

  • Irish||

    One of the great joys of the shitty left-wing governments currently ruining the planet has been watching Instapundit get progressively more hardcore:

    POSTCARDS FROM VENEZUELA: “The guardsmen beat them with their fists and the butts of their rifles, taking away their personal belongings before setting fire to the car.” If I lived in Venezuela, I’d find out where the guardsmen lived, and shoot them when they walked out the door in the morning. That is, of course, the proper response to dictators and their minions of every stripe, even Hollywood-backed socialists.
  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    I see the squirrels are still at it.

  • ||

    Yup.

  • SweatingGin||

    Santorum Warmup

    Damnit... The squirelz are back?

  • Fluffy||

    Progs: "WE DEMAND THAT YOU REDUCE EXECUTIVE PAY!"

    OK, so we took advantage of turnover at the NTY Managing Editor position to lower the executive pay for that position.

    Progs: "WE NOW DEMAND THAT YOU NEVER REDUCE EXECUTIVE PAY...FOR WOMEN!"

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    And reason has to have THE GALL to complain about obamacare.gov!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Prediction: Hoops.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Well I guess one thing is for sure, in Libertopia, commenting sections on websites will be shoddy at best.

    Figure it out Reason.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The Passion of the Santorum.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    TOGETHER WE ARE ALL WHITE.

  • kibby||

    Wow, he hasn't even opened his mouth & I already want to punch him in the face.

  • ||

    He looks like a weasel.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

  • ||

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Jedediah may be the coolest name EVAH!

  • ||

    He's calling us liberals!!! OH NO!!!

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    SoCal is burning. Jeez.

  • ||

    There is nothing new under the sun.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    One of my best friends lives in Fallbrook, which is right between 4 different fires. He's calling me every hour with updates. I wish I could go down there with my phantom to get some aerial footage.

  • ||

    Shit, a friend of mine got sent home from work early because of those fires.

    You should've chosen a different weekend to be on your deathbed.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    7 days of Biaxin, and I should be OK. I'm drinking beer, so I'm not dead.

  • ||

    Isn't alcohol contraindicated with most antibiotics?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    IDK about most, but it's fine with Biaxin.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Is she ramping up to go into attack mode?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I don't Santorum realizes that the United States thrived when it was arguably its most libertarian.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    *I dont think

  • Virginian||

    Plus America will get more socon in a lot of ways if thinks do move in a libertarian direction. The huge amount of bastardless children and unwed mothers is entirely a result of the government giving out free money to any dumb bitch who has kids without getting married or getting gainful employment.

    Turn off the free money for bad decisions, and people will make a lot fewer bad decisions.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #1

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Wow.

  • ||

    I had the under. Did she beat it?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Double wow.

  • GILMORE||

    Interrupt Faster!

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Hole plugging?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Kennedy got him to admit Americans have holes.

  • Bobarian||

    And that he wants to plug them all

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    That made me chuckle

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    I hate this man with the white hot passion of 1000 suns!

  • kibby||

    Yes, this.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    He just insulted your marriage. How many suns was that?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #2

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #3

  • ||

    True Happiness: Doing what Santorum thinks you should do

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Libertarians and libertines are the same thing. You tell her, Senator!

  • kibby||

    Lorenzo Valla has a bone to pick with you, douchebag.

  • kibby||

    Lorenzo Valla has a bone to pick with you, douchebag.

  • Sevo||

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #4

  • ||

    She is holding out remarkably well at just having rage face while he goes through his marriage spiel.

    She didn't make it all the way through.

  • ||

    Kennedy, needs to learn how to be a host.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #5

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    What could make this segment better? Abortion.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Kennedy is gonna blow!!!

  • BigT||

    Sanctimonious, staggeringly stupid.

  • ||

    Marriage: Whatever Santorum tells you it is.

  • kibby||

    Okay, so couples who can't have babies should not be allowed to get married. That's completely logical!

  • Sevo||

    How 'bout the ones that don't want to?

  • kibby||

    I'm sure Santorum would like them to be lined up against a wall & shot.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    I have never wanted to violate the NAP so much in my life.

  • GILMORE||

    Kennedy seems to have a tad trouble being the 'dispassionate' interviewer, methinks?

  • Bam!||

    Did I hear the teaser correctly? Not a single E! Network segment today?

    (Lets see if the squirrels will let this get by.)

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    The squirrels kept me from noting Interruption #6

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    That segment coupled with Reason's inability to host a comment section *cough cough the cornerstone of this website* is really pissing me off.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Why was she getting worked up? Were his answers surprising her?

  • ||

    Hi, my name is jesse, and I have an alcohol problem.

    I did not have a suitable alcoholic beverage prepared before watching Rick Santorum speak.

    *sits back down on folding chair, buries face in hands*

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    In Sanatopia, no adoptions for Jesse

  • ||

    I'll just go to the gay adoption black market where they launder the children they've stolen from loving, Christian, two-parent families anyway.

  • Sevo||

    I knew it! I KNEW it!

  • kibby||

    Science hasn't invented something strong enough for that yet.

  • Sevo||

    jesse.in.mb|5.14.14 @ 9:14PM|#
    "Hi, my name is jesse, and I have an alcohol problem.
    I did not have a suitable alcoholic beverage prepared before watching Rick Santorum speak."

    Well, none of us have enough for Santorum, unless we work in a liquor store.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Let's see if the purported comedian makes me crack a smile.

    So far, I've only slightly grinned once at a Independents comedian.

  • Pathogen||

    I beginning to suspect that Ricky was probably not Kennedy's first choice for that guest slot..

  • Sevo||

    I'm afraid that TI really doesn't have a lot of choice at this point.
    The possible guests are prolly not breaking down the doors to get on quite yet.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    This sucks. I'm going out to get beer. It's really hot, and it has been 2 weeks since my last beer. It is going to taste so incredible....

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Matt Welch: Matt Bevin will be senator over my dead body!

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption #7

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Bobarian||

    This fellow is full of feces

  • Pathogen||

    It's just feces.. all the way down, with you.

  • Bobarian||

    Feces and sqrlz.

  • Atanarjuat||

    Compared to other lefties, this guy has a deep understanding of Republican vs. Tea Party politics.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I don't want to live in a world where the leftists diss philosophers.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Okay, this show is 1000 times better than last night's.

  • Pathogen||

    I wonder if Rick is screaming at whoever lined him up with this gig, right about... now

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Scott and Cabinet members met Tuesday on that proposal and another by FPL to add two nuclear generators to its Turkey Point facility. The plants would generate enough power for an estimated 750,000 homes. The utility needs the new power lines to carry the additional electricity away from the facility.

    Do it

  • Pathogen||

    FP&L is notorious for sending whatever shit on down the line, brown outs, overloads and all. The load managers are a pain in the ass.. I say do it as well.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I liked Bryce better the first time I saw him, when he was Maxwell Smart.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption 7.5

  • ||

    Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Rick? I imagine he's probably ideologically more closely aligned with you than he is with us, but do you find his willingness to bring government to bear for his ideology bothersome or is that a plus?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I don't like his big-government stuff, e.g. his "team player" vote for big-government Republican programs.

    He's not the kind of SoCon I like.

    I prefer a SoCon like Rand Paul.

  • ||

    Ok. That's basically what I figured, but wanted to make sure I hadn't misread your position.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Happy to help!

    "Fusionism" is my bag - morality as the foundation of freedom, freedom as a bedrock of morality.

    Immorality in itself isn't a reason for the govt. to kick in your door, shackle you, and cage you.

    Government officials should spend so much time on being moral themselves that they will have limited time to police the peasants' morals.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Are you saving yourself for marriage?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Suppose I didn't - I would be opposed to the Police for the Promotion of Virtue and the Repression of Vice coming after me.

    (Though if I go after a married woman, I might want to repress myself in various ways)

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    That's no fun. Be fun.

    A story about playing "just the tip" will suffice.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Not saying I did or didn't - I'm saving it for my memoirs, which you can go an buy like everyone else.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption 8

    (I added up two half-interruptions)

  • GILMORE||

    The Independents Attire Review, 14 May 2014

    A Cure for Curiosity-Edition

    - Kennedy: Time for a confession: I don't really know shit about women's clothes. I'm not sure what's even going on around her neck. I was getting a little "Flying Nun" vibe for a second, but angry screeching at Santorum pretty much sent Sally Field into a nose-dive. Frankly, the Mid-Century/Mad Men vibe that is currently in vogue with women's fashion is hit or miss for me. Come back to the 1980s KK... they loved you.

    - Matt: OMG a pink shirt? Who would have guessed. And with a light blue tie. The innovations never cease. (sigh) It hardly matters that spotted/striped Navy or Purple ties tend to work best - even if he owned anything that worked, we can be sure they'd be saved for something far less appropriate.

    - Jeebadeeba: Let's call her "Jebba The Hot" - cause she's repeatedly come on the show dressed to kill. Which makes sense; who wants to be the Bullpen Independent? We're getting strong "PUT ME IN, COACH" signals. We also like the neck-candy - jewelry being something of a rarity here aside from the everpresent ear Hula-hoops. Laurels for Jeepers: Kennedy scared me earlier, and Matt has depressed me, so she gets a double+ for just being *hawt*. Kudos sister.

    Thank You

  • Atanarjuat||

    I've got your organic protein shake right here.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Dear Kennedy,

    You can wait until the guest leaves and then go on a rant about how wrong he was.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I like his attitude about Fukushima. Most thinking people should come to the same conclusion. And people who pay attention to the studies and understand radiation interaction with DNA would realize that it should have been even less of a disaster than it was and continues to be.

  • Bam!||

    How the hell is Common Core paying for advertisements?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    People at the local level do it.

  • SlV||

    Why are all the Common Core teachers fat chicks?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Just asked my wife that very question.

  • Sevo||

    'Cause the ones that eat like horses sing like birds!
    Ooops. That was opera singers...

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    So?

    Da bitch fat.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    He thought he was calling 411.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Welch is charming the fuck out of the ladies tonight.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    He's charming the fuck out of me tonight

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Ron Paul appearing below the fold? What's up with relegating the doctor to the second hour?

  • GILMORE||

    Isn't that 'the sorta-serious half'?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    And you weigh, what? A buck, a buck ten?

  • SweatingGin||

    I looked up her website hoping to find her height (turns out she's the same age as me).

    Never look at her the same: "Lou Dobbs taught me how to knot a tie :)"

  • Bam!||

    That looks like the start of spank porn.

  • SweatingGin||

    You don't need to tell us about your Lou Dobbs fantasies.

  • Tejicano||

    Ok... Now I'm really going to watch the reply on this (can't watch the live show in the office here).

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    She's gorgeous.

  • SweatingGin||

    I don't disagree, just was looking for her height to throw in a guess. And I typed out and then deleted research findings on that.

  • Atanarjuat||

    He's totally going to try to touch her boobs with the back of his hands. Also, what Bam! said.

  • Sevo||

    I can't tell what he'd doing there, but I sure wouldn't mind doing it.

  • SweatingGin||

    Tuning in late, and a quick search through -- no ham tears comments when Santorum was on?

  • Pathogen||

    He barely got to speak, Kennedy was all over him like a cheap suit, when he did..

  • BigT||

    WTF were you watching. Santorum filibustered Kennedy

  • Pathogen||

    My feed was stuttering, one minute he was trying to babble on about abortion and adoption, while Kennedy was going out of her way to interrupt him, then he pissed and moaned about it, then she said check out his book (or don't.. she didn't give a shit).. the end. That's what I got from it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Speaking of chubby wubbies, Manufacturing Marvels is doing a "show" on Walmart fatty scooters tonight.

  • Bam!||

    Ron Paul, and his aura, is back.

  • SweatingGin||

    From the Ron Paul situation room!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    RoPaul's aura isn't quite as fuschialicious tonight. Things are getting late there in the ether I guess.

  • BigT||

    Bruins dead. Thang Zod

  • Atanarjuat||

    I like how Welch calls him Dr. Paul, and the label on the screen says "former congressman". Political titles should not be for life.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    He worked really hard for that title.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Don't let them hide the shame of their previous profession. Brand them for life.

  • GILMORE||

    Ramblin Ron seems to have forgotten the question was about Mexico about 2 seconds after he was asked.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    At least he wasn't interrupted!

  • GILMORE||

    Interruptions bounce off his aura

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Ask what Teve Torbes is going to do on tax reform.

  • Atanarjuat||

    I realize he was in the military, hospitals, etc., and I spent the last few years in the music business, and those worlds don't really have much in common, but how the FUCK have you never at least seen marijuana?

  • BigT||

    He means seen as a party favor, not its effects or stoned people

  • Cytotoxic||

    What was yesterday's after show like?

  • Bam!||

    Awkward.

  • kibby||

    We don't speak of that!!!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    It's a blank space on the map.

  • Army of the 12 Monkeys||

    Let's just say there were several awkward pauses, and Kennedy was still in the room.

  • GILMORE||

    ALSO, YOU CAN HIJACK AN AIRPLANE WITH THE MICROTOUCH 1

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I don't want him kicking a soccer ball at my barbeque.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption 9

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Interruption 10

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    This comedian isn't funny, but at least he's not a progressive.

  • GILMORE||

    I fail to see the difference when his idea of "public space" is "ban all activity that I find unpleasant"

  • Bam!||

    When they avoid E! Network segments, they can put out a half-decent show.

  • Big Chief||

    Along with that, when they also avoid the latest fad story (Clippers, Endless missing jet story, etc.) it's actually a GOOD show. I agree with GILMORE's comment above, instead of getting hacks like Santorum and Weiner, get some lesser known libertarians or others with interesting ideas. Welch and Kmele seem to have the firepower to engage on any subject, and Kennedy has the ability to keep it entertaining and moving along.

    But I know my preferences are not those held by the general public. So it would probably do worse in the ratings even as I like it more.

  • sloopyinca||

    What's this about a missing jet?

    BY the way, I took your advice upthread and dropped Balko a line.

  • GILMORE||

    The "party panel" is so shitty that the 'comedian' is a bigger dick than Progtard Ungar. Who would have guessed?

    on top of that - the pacing of this show is such that they spend 10 seconds on fairly important policy issues, then have a 10 min incoherent yapfest about some people feeding homeless people in a park.

  • Atanarjuat||

    I'm so used to Janeane Garofolo-type lefties, who are shockingly hysterical, ignorant, and humorless, it's refreshing to come across someone like, well, whoever this guy is.

  • GILMORE||

    Don't worry = go read his columns. He's just as bad if not worse.

  • Virginian||

    So I'm rewatching Breaking Bad. I kind of like Ted. Keeping his business afloat by outfoxing the IRS? Love it. I think the writers saw how sympathetic he was, so they made him do the stupid thing he did.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    AH! Lou Dobbs.

  • GILMORE||

    D-D-D-D-Daaaaaaaaaaaaabbbs

  • Sevo||

    Didn't want to interrupt, but GLOBAL WARMING!
    CA gets a high pressure area that results in three days of hotter than normal temps, with today predicted to be the OMG-WORST! Lefty columnist jumps on band wagon, points to the weather as evidence of AGW, concern-trolls that Rethugs are needlessly upset about AGW (ignoring that people in Chicago are wearing coats, for pete’s sake), tosses in gratuitous KOCK BROS!
    http://www.sfgate.com/entertai.....475550.php
    And SF peaks at a RECORD-BREAKING 88*!.
    Supposed to cool off tomorrow; I guess all the CO^2 I didn’t emit today fixed things.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I guess all the CO^2 I didn’t emit today fixed things

    I'm afraid to ask: What CO2 didn't you emit today?

  • Irish||

    Technically, there is an infinite amount of CO2 I didn't emit today.

    I could have emitted infinity CO2, but I did not.

  • Sevo||

    "I'm afraid to ask: What CO2 didn't you emit today?"

    See that blown 520CI puppy right over there? I only drove it to the store and back.
    I usually do burn-outs up and down the block.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Block meaning really really steep hill?

  • Irish||

    I didn't watch today. Did Rick Santorum teach Jesse to repent his sinful lifestyle and bathe in the light of the lord instead of in the ejaculate of Hungarians?

  • GILMORE||

    no - shockingly, Rick said he'd had a transformative experience; he now enjoys wearing women's clothing, is pro gay-marriage, and thinks recreational weed use is 'groovy'. AND Kennedy and him just had the best time laughing about their former differences of opinion! it was heartwarming.

  • Sevo||

    I'm sure there'll be a re-play!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Yeah, Santorum said all that, but Kennedy also changed her politics and announced that she had joined the Family Research Council.

    She called Santorum a libertine pothead, and Santorum said Kennedy was a theocrat who hated fun, and he was going to manipulate Google so as to make sure any search of her name would bring up stories about a drug-abusing womanizer whose little brother drowned a girl.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    And whose *other* brother tapped both Marilyn Monroe and Martin Luther King.

  • ||

    instead of in the ejaculate of Hungarians?

    I went to Hungary during my "no game" phase. Germans are significantly in the lead for my Euro-score.

  • Virginian||

  • SusanM||

    Ayn Rand was a bestselling novelist, and the most successful modern popularizer of libertarian ideas

    That whirring noise you're hearing is Rand spinning in her grave...

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Right. So what did I miss?

  • Pathogen||

    The ejaculate of Hungarians..

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Eh, you got a little something on your face...

  • ||

    Book by May 22 and Delta is having a fare sale LAX to Phoenix. $69 each way, but you have to book round trip.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Thanks for the tip, but I already bought a one-way ticket from Tucson to LAX on Southwest for $89. I was pleasantly surprised that the price dropped by $35 from the previous day.

    So I'm all set as far as transportation goes.

  • sloopyinca||

    Shit, dude. You could have rode with us on Friday or Saturday. For freezies!

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    That would have been nice, but she herself is going to Ohio for a week and a half starting tomorrow.

    So Memorial day is the closest available day.

  • ||

    LA to Columbus is $186 each way on Delta.

    (I still have the fare sale page up)

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Wrong city. Columbus is actually nice.

  • ||

    Wait, isn't Warty in OH?

    Should we fear for kibby's safety?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Yes, Cleveland, of which Lakewood is a suburb.

  • kibby||

    But I'm not going back to Lakewood -- staying with family in a little suburb further inland. Family who lives in the stone age & doesn't understand how nice having internet access is, so I may be scarce 'round these parts.

  • ||

    Warty is like a border zone. He can freely probe you at 300 miles from his location.

  • kibby||

    I'll keep that in mind when I see glowing eyes staring in through my bedroom window.

  • SusanM||

    $69 each way,

    Is that a joke? ;)

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    After taxes, the joke doesn't work.

  • SusanM||

    The you really get fucked...

  • juris imprudent||

    And "round trip" was the punchline.

  • SusanM||

    So that's what an "around the world" is called these days.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

  • GILMORE||

    we noted = "Jedda the Hawt"

  • juris imprudent||

    Why am I reminded of all TV show's images of the secret wall inside the lair of a stalker?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Nice thing about Google Images is you don't need clutter up an entire wall for each woman.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I can hook you up with a common core teacher if you're interested.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    From what I've seen, that is probably more to John's taste.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

  • Tejicano||

    What do I look like to you? Cap'n Ahab?

  • Tejicano||

    Yeah. I might have to restucture my life and start watching TV again.

  • ||

    How do you even pronounce that name?

  • Tejicano||

    Yummy? Scrumptious?

    I'm trying to keep it polite here, OK?

  • GILMORE||

  • Pathogen||

    Huh.. I did not know that...

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    What he refuses to admit is that the Egyptians stole everything from the Nubians.

    Knowledge is Power!

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    It appears the ownership of the Pittsburgh Penguins feels head coach Dan Bylsma is one member of the organization that should take the fall for this year's early playoff exit at the hands of the New York Rangers.

  • Pathogen||

    "My work here is done.. Darwin.. Away!"

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    "Officials say Wardell, Kelly and six to eight other friends were hanging out together when the man came up with the ill-fated idea to try on the old flak jacket."

    Darwin indeed. Body armor expires much in the same way as a gallon of milk. If you find an old flak jacket, it isn't going to work properly.

  • Agammamon||

    Tell that to the Navy. We get the Vietnam era leftovers. Even the *Marines* don't use gear as old and crappy as ours.

  • Tejicano||

    Maybe not anymore. When I got to my first unit after Marine Boot Camp in 1976 that unit was still using 1941 haversacks with a tent roll. A lot of the "newer" gear was Korean era junk.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Sorry. To clarify, old body armor won't work properly. The more you perspire into kevlar, the less effective it becomes.

    I know very little about flak jackets.

  • Agammamon||

    Oh, I agree with you - but we still got the old junk.

    Typically it goes Army gets the shiny new toys, when they're old and not shiny anymore the Marines get them. After the Marines have busted them they get passed on to the Navy.

  • Tejicano||

    IIRC the chemestry of kevlar thread breaks down with time and exposure to stuff like sweat and rain. Physical action can also loosen up the weave leaving gaps that can fail.

    Military flak jackets are only used for gun (mortar/artillery) crews to (hopefully) protect from shrapnel if/when they have an incident on the gun line. People within the kill zone are toast regardless but those outside that zone have a better chance with a flak jacket on.

  • Agammamon||

    Its less the sweat and rain than the constant flexing of and between the fibers that breaks them up. The fibers are tough, but brittle.

    Sun (well, UV) ain't good for them either but the actually Kevlar layers are sewn inside the nylon outer.

    If *properly* stored, a vest will remain functional for years. Wadded up in a box in your garage, not so much.

    Of course these morons were probably using a flack vest anyway - most likely daddy's surplus, surplus service issue that he didn't turn in and was already decades old when the he left the military.

    We use Kevlar mooring lines, get 'em soaked in seawater and then put them away wet in a dark dank place (yeah, I know - not supposed to but often there's not place to leave them lying out to dry) and they'll still function for years.

  • Pathogen||

    "..Military flak jackets are only used for gun (mortar/artillery) crews to (hopefully) protect from shrapnel if/when they have an incident on the gun line.."

    I have no doubt that's true, but I was led to believe that the flak vest issued in Vietnam were also used to protect occupants from spalling inside the hulls of APCs (and probably helos too.. to a lesser extent).

  • Agammamon||

    Spall is basically shrapnel.

  • Tejicano||

    Flak jackets are too hot to be wearing in tropical environments if you have to be out pounding the ground. You are weighing the minor probability of stopping a small piece of shrapnel against the near certainty that you will become a heat casualty. The heat is even worse inside a vehicle.

    I couldn't imagine wearing one for a helo ride since you would want to ditch it after arrival - the helo crew definitely would not take it back for you. Helo crew might wear them - but they are generally at moe risk from incoming small arms fire rather than shrapnel.

    I was in 81mm mortars so I wore one while on the gun line. It didn't seem to make sense wearing it anywhere else.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    G-night kids.

  • Agammamon||

    OK - my problem(s) with this story.

    1. As usual, the reporter can't be bothered to confirm whether it was a flack jacket or a bullet-proof vest. Two very different things. A flack jacket is to protect you from shrapnel - small, razor-sharp, low-mass pieces of debris from grenades/mortars, etc. while a BPF is actually intended to stop bullets (up to a certain energy depending on its design - these guys were idiots for not confirming that the jacket was intended to counter the gun they used).

    2. 'Involuntary Manslaughter'? WTF happened to assumption of risk in this country. If the witnesses agree (and there's no evidence to counter) that this was a consensual situation where no-one actually expected or intended anyone to die, then Breach of Peace would seem to be the appropriate charge (since being a fucking moron is still not illegal in this country).

  • Pathogen||

    1)Agreed. Even without the breast plate, a ballistic Kevlar vest of 3a or better should stop a small caliber pistol round, and prevent penetration to the heart. A cracked sternum would be another mater. From perusing the article, I would assume that it was a surplus flack vest, which I agree would be functionally useless to the dangerously stupid in such a situation.

    2)They're laying it on thick in hopes of getting her to cop to a lesser charge, without a fight... of they're praying for a gullible jury...

  • Tejicano||

    Truth. A flak jacket and a bullet-proof vest have about as much in common as an apple and a road apple. There is probably no small arms bullet that would be stopped by a military flak jacket at close range.

  • Pathogen||

    I dislike the inaccuracy of such articles, and take them with a grain of salt. These are the same people (journalists) who believe that all pistols are 88 magnums, and all rifles (other than flintlocks) are machineguns.. and sentient..

  • Dweebston||

    What did I miss? I'm dying killing vaguely interested in a link.

  • Agammamon||

    Look at the link just above from Pathogen - my reply here got posted in the wrong place.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Last

  • kibby||

    I'm fairly certain that honor should belong to me.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

  • kibby||

    I will triumph over your petty attempts to be last.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    You should really go to bed now. You will be driving a lot tomorrow and need to be well-rested.

    It would all of our hearts here at Hit & Run (mine especially) if you fell victim to an accident due to want of sleep.

  • kibby||

    It would what all of your hearts, now? (This is why you need me looking over your shoulder as your official spellchecker!)

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    It would break my heart. And then the rabble here would break my legs because my lack of prudence in my affections for me you caused you to have a fatal accident and thus deprived the world of the rare Female Libertarian.

  • Tejicano||

    "...the rabble here would break my legs.."

    Well, to be pedantic we would be starting somewhere in that vicinity.

  • ||

    my affections for me you caused you

    Put the rubber cement away, Serious.

  • Tejicano||

    Being on the other side of the Pacific I can easily kick this can as far as you want to - and one kick more. But I won't. Please take the last shot, S'il vous plait.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Merci beaucoup. Fin!

  • Pathogen||

    And... Done!

  • Agammamon||

    Or is it?

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    400?

  • Tejicano||

    Only if there are enough of us left to play.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Fin.

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