Trial Begins for Officers Accused of Beating Kelly Thomas to Death in California

It’s been more than two years since Kelly Thomas, a schizophrenic homeless man, died after a brutal beating at the hands of police officers in Fullerton, Calif. Today, after community outrage, the retirement of the city’s police chief, and the recall of three Fullerton City Council members, two of the six officers involved in the incident face the music. Their criminal trial has begun.

Courtesy of Reuters:

The trial of two former California policemen charged in the beating and stun gun death of a mentally ill transient began on Monday with opening statements about the deadly confrontation that touched off protests and political upheaval in a Los Angeles suburb.

Prosecutors say the two officers, who approached Kelly Thomas to question him about reports of vandalized cars near a bus depot, turned a routine police encounter into an unnecessary and savage beating that cost the unarmed homeless man his life in what represented a flagrant abuse of authority.

Former Fullerton officer Manuel Ramos, 39, is charged with second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in the confrontation between Fullerton police officers and 37-year-old Thomas on the night of July 5, 2011.

Jay Cicinelli, a 41-year-old ex-corporal with the Fullerton Police Department, is charged with involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force. Both men have pleaded not guilty.

Defense attorneys were expected to argue that Thomas had a history of violence and resisted the officers' attempts to detain and question him.

ReasonTV’s Paul Detrick is at the courtroom for the trial, but the judge has banned the media from live-tweeting the happenings. Below, ReasonTV shows how important citizen outrage and public recording of police officers were in trying to bring about justice in this case:

 

Our previous coverage of the Kelly Thomas case can be found here.

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  • Paul.||

    Jay Cicinelli, a 41-year-old ex-corporal with the Fullerton Police Department, is charged with involuntary manslaughter

    What's the "involuntary" part?

  • Meerkatx||

    Kelly kept striking Cicinelli's fists with his face. Obviously involuntary.

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  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, they weren't trying to kill him. They were just trying to beat the shit out of him.

    Actually, that charge suggests they're really going for a conviction here. If they'd gone with a charge that had a higher hurdle for the jury, he'd be more likely to get off...

    With involuntary manslaughter, they don't have to prove intent.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Why exactly did it take two years for these two (only two???) to be brought to trial?

  • Paul.||

    Officer safety.

  • Cyto||

    I can't believe the guy who walks up to Kelly, shakes his fist in his face as he sits passively on the curb and tells him "this is gonna fuck you up" moments before they actually do beat him to death hasn't been charged.

    Just suppose that you and 5 friends at a bar confront some guy and you walk up to him, shake your fist in his face and tell him that "this is gonna fuck you up". You and your friends then proceed to beat him to death. All caught on camera. You think for one second that you walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist? You think for even a moment that you get anything less than first degree murder?

  • Ken Shultz||

    How does that answer why it took two years to go from a pre-trial hearing in December of 2011 to a to a trail in December of 2013?

    Your list of dates isn't even a distraction. It just means nothing.

  • Ken Shultz||

    So, what we've learned is that it takes two years to go from a pre-trial hearing to trial.

    Thank you for your worthless timeline.

  • ||

    Defense attorneys were expected to argue that Thomas had a history of violence

    Wasn't Thomas known for being explicitly non-violent? And wasn't he something like 135 pounds?

    "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Mr. Thomas was known for his violent behavior. He was often compared to the ferocity of Paul Reubens and Mickey Rooney."

  • Paul.||

    Maybe he had the gut-punch wit of Don Rickles.

  • ||

    More like Dane Cook.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Apparently Thomas hit his grandfather with a fireplace poker, but it also sounds like Officer Ramos had a history of harassing him too.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    How is that or his theoretical history of violence relevant in this case.

    Unless that is the pigs knew his history - which makes the encounter and murder even more indefensible.

  • db||

    A history of violence would probably matter more if there weren't audio and video of him begging them to stop and them continuing to mercilessly beat him into a coma until he looked like a slaughterhouse floor.

  • ||

    Well, yeah. But still, a chihuahua with a "history of violence" is a lot different than a Rottweiler with a "history of violence".

    I'm just surprised that the defense is taking this tack, but then again, it's probably all they have. I hope these cops get the book thrown at them, but it's doubtful.

    Yo quiero Taco Bell.

  • 0x90||

    If, by "the book" you mean "buckets of human excrement, laced with rusty razor blades," then I agree.

  • R C Dean||

    Too late. The book would call for first degree murder charges.

    You know, like any non-cop would get for this.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Or at the very least second-degree charges.

    Involuntary manslaughter is...laughable.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Paul Reubens was caught punching the clown that one time.

  • ||

    I thought he was punishing the pope.

  • SugarFree||

    He was pounding the popcorn monster.

  • db||

    "Just...jackin' it."

  • ||

    Are you sure he wasn't clearing the snorkel?

  • SusanM||

    cannonizing the bishop

  • Generic Stranger||

    Taming the yogurt monster.

  • Anvil||

    Herman-ing his "Pee-Wee"

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    I'd be interested in going over to the Santa Ana courthouse and watching this trial in person.

  • ||

    So, they didnt take a plea. They are going to trial. This tells me that, in spite of the whole murder being on video, they expect to get off. I will be stunned if they dont.

    Whatcha wanna bet the jury never sees the video?

  • Game of Gnomes||

    2 of the talk radio jocks here in LA are doing daily (I think they said daily) updates at 5 Pacific on this trial. They have the same disdain and venom that many posters here have for dirty cops. At the very least maybe some listeners will think twice about bootlicking.

    Their reporter in the courtroom said a female juror teared up when they were shown pictures of the bloody scene and taser. It turns out she worked with the mentally disabled. Unfortunately, she is an alternate.

  • Game of Gnomes||

    So I guess what I am trying to say is maybe there is hope that justice will be served

  • ||

    The trial of two former California policemen

    Does this mean that they were allowed to resign -- and collect pensions?

  • SugarFree||

    Defense attorneys were expected to argue that Thomas had a history of violence

    Sounds good. The prosecution can read the IAB files on the cops into the record, right?

  • db||

    Mumble mumble personnel records mumble confidentiality mumblemumble right to privacy.

  • ||

    OFFICER SAFETY.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Union contract.

  • CE||

    So if you ever beat someone up or threatened someone yourself, you obviously deserve to be summarily beaten to death if you don't identify yourself to officers and cooperate fully?

  • Andrew S.||

    Of course. Why don't you want those officers to go home to their families at night, hater?

    Something something haterati something something incomprehensible acronym something something surfing.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Geez - this was two years ago?

    Back when I was a fresh-faced newcomer to H&R, this story was one that turned me against cops.

  • Agammamon||

    Ah yes, the early days. Back when you were just a guy trying to make your way in a post-apocalyptic world.

    Exposure to us has turned you into the crazed leader of a gang of gay-boy berzerkers and smegma-crazies.

  • SweatingGin||

    For some reason I thought you had been here forever.

    I've lurked here almost forever, only occasionally commenting until the last year or two when the obsession got worse.

    Watched Salty Ham Tears and commenter freedom/xss day up close.

  • Ted S.||

    Two years round here just feel like forever.

  • ||

    Aww, I was just reading the articles when Salty Ham Tears happened.

    I don't know how I managed to misunderstand this site for so long. The articles are just a vehicle for the comments.

  • Warrren||

    Yup.

  • SweatingGin||

    Once you gaze deep into a thread like that, not even Postrel can pull you back.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Can someone explain the Salty Ham Tears meme? I think I started commenting here around the 2010 midterm elections but I don't recall that.

  • ||

    I learned the details in this thread.

  • ||

  • Irish||

    BEHOLD!

    Scroll down like 80% of the way to see the part where Freepers show up.

    Rick | November 12, 2006, 3:28pm | #

    Oh the pleasure I will take watching you sick little freaks shit, piss, and cry as you put to death for treason. Just remember who will be blamed when several American Cities are destroyed by nukes. The groundwork has already been laid, helped along by your allies in Iran, N Korea and Al-Queda, with their public statements of thanks to the democrat party. The finger of blame will be put squarely on liberal freaks like you. Why do you think that Bush isn't that upset with the narrow loss of both houses? You have now paid your nickel to be on the Titanic as it sinks (think about it). So enjoy pounding your pud over the disappointment of an 8 year old child, I suspect that it will be nothing compared to what you will be feeling soon.

    Well, he convinced me. Think about it.

  • Irish||

    Homosexuals like Sanchez should avoid wallowing in evil publicly. It only confirms what conservatives say about their heartlessness, sadism, and utter depravity.

    Free Republic really is the worst place on the internet. It's a step down from Democratic Republic.

  • Irish||

    Demographer | November 13, 2006, 1:27pm | #

    Most libertarians are childless potheads, homosexuals, computer professionals or policy wonks. Their movement is a bigger abortion than liberalism.

    ??? That's the first time I've ever seen computer professional thrown around like a slur.

  • ||

    Well, let's analyze his statement. Just here on this board we have childless potheads, homosexuals, computer professionals, and...do we have policy wonks? Sometimes, some posters here are two or three of those things. Just look at me!

  • Irish||

    I think Laura has something to say to you, Epi:

    Laura | November 15, 2006, 4:16pm | #

    You people are reprehensible creatures. You don't even know how vile and sick you all are or how wrong it is to hurt children. You think making nasty comments about Santorum's children is funny. As I've said and will continue to believe, and as has been proven here, libertarians are creatures devoid of concience, ethics or morals. Thank God America will never subscribe to your warped ideology.

    Every male on this board deserves to have their dicks cut off.
  • ||

    Ha, she fell victim to my trap! I'm not a libertarian! Ha ha ha ha!

    God, that butthurt tastes delicious. So does the Seahawks' 20 point lead over the Saints.

  • SIV||

    I count 4

  • ||

    It should be. Dirty fucking computer professionals. Doing all their computery things.

  • lap83||

    Maybe Overly Suave IT Guy stole his girlfriend.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    In my neighborhood Computer Professionals have to sign up with a registry. That way we can check and see how close they live to us normal people.

    It's for the children, really.

    And wouldn't calling something an "abortion" imply that it died before it could really get going?

  • Generic Stranger||

    Jesus....we've had threading since 2009? It doesn't seem like it's been that long...

    I think I started posting shortly before the threading started, sometime in '08 or so. Didn't use this handle, though.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Did rick actually say that Bush wanted several US cities to be nuked in 2006 to punish "liberals"?

    Just remember who will be blamed when several American Cities are destroyed by nukes. The groundwork has already been laid, helped along by your allies in Iran, N Korea and Al-Queda, with their public statements of thanks to the democrat party. The finger of blame will be put squarely on liberal freaks like you. Why do you think that Bush isn't that upset with the narrow loss of both houses?

    Sure looks like it.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    That thread is quite the clusterfuck. How many people who comment here today were around back then?

  • Irish||

    Ken Shultz | November 8, 2006, 7:52pm | #

    I'd probably cry like that too if I thought I might have to move back to Pittsburgh or some other god awful, Pennsylvania place.

    Hi, 7 year old Ken!

    GILMORE | November 8, 2006, 6:39pm | #

    "I'll give Julian a pass because it seemed to me he knew he was being crass and heartless but he felt what he felt and decided to get a laugh out of it."

    Oooh, how Big of you.

    Gilmore!

    Pro Libertate | November 8, 2006, 6:04pm | #

    Aaa aaa aaaa. Is that near Castle Aaa aaa aaaa?

    You know, another way of looking at this is that at least people here are mocking some kid rather than lusting for her. The Gore and Bush children have to be kept in protective custody, even though they are adults.

    ProL is like 300 years old, isn't he?

  • ||

    At the very end of it there's a check-in where someone asks how people's lives had changed between the start and the end of the thread.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    WHERE DID THE VIKING MOOSE GO

  • Ken Shultz||

    He splits time between his hideout in a hollowed out volcano and his moonbase.

  • Ted S.||

    I don't recall when I first started reading, but it looks like my first comment was October 5, 2009.

  • mr lizard||

    Don't worry kids. Even if all of these assholes die peacefully in bed, they'll do so with rotted souls and full diapers. Surrounded by estranged heirs looking upon them with relief that at least the world is finally rid of such an abomination.

  • Agammamon||

  • Warrren||

    Trent Dilfer just spent two-three minutes just trashing the Seahawks secondary. Made a convincing case that there will be no stopping Jimmy Graham tonight.

  • Mike M.||

    Dilfer surely knows that Seattle has what might be the best secondary in the NFL, so this makes no sense to me.

    They're doing a very good job so far against one of the best offenses in the league. Of course, playing in Seattle helps a lot with that.

  • Warrren||

    Dilfer was wrong! My world is upturned!

  • RishJoMo||

    I say off with their heads already! Off with em!

    www.AnonTru.tk

  • Sevo||

    OT:
    AP has decided Obo's water is getting a bit heavy:
    "Updated healthcare.gov gets mixed reviews"
    "You can get to a point, but it does not allow you to select any plans, you can't get eligibility (information). It stops there," she said. "The thought of it working as well as it was didn't last long."
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/med.....028961.php
    AP didn't bother to mention that Obo lied about it being "fixed".

  • Warrren||

    If you want a working website you can have it.

  • mr lizard||

    It's like trying to watch a porn video in 1995.

  • Dweebston||

    They're called jpegs, and it's not a video format.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    I think we've reached the point where even his supporters don't really believe him anymore. They support his lies because they think they share the same goals.

  • SweatingGin||

    Who wants to host a Newtown Anniversary Party?

  • mr lizard||

    Damn I just cleared out my pile of dead monocle polishers.

    Speaking of... Has anyone looked at that asperger ninja's Online gaming account. Specifically any conversations he might have had with other gamers?

  • Ted S.||

    It makes me want to bake a cake and decorate it with a "chalk" drawing (in icing) of a dead child's body. And a target or two.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Raffle of 27 guns and have the proceeds donated for the benefit of children's mental health programs.

  • Anvil||

    I will. Everyone has to pack their own lunch and gun though.

  • SweatingGin||

    OT: Maduro shows his vision of socialist Venezuela

    Article has a few bonus policies. Car manufacturers must inform the government of their weekly production. They'll finally have enough information to solve the socialist calculation problem!

  • SweatingGin||

    What did socialists use for light before candles?

    Electricity!

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    I linked an article for the PM links that described the thriving black market for Americano dollars.

    Venezuelans will fly out of country, purchase US dollars on credit with their Venezuelan cards, fly back, and then sell the dollars for a 200% markup on the black market.

    Shit is really getting out of hand and it's going to be ugly when it all comes crashing down.

  • SweatingGin||

    Missed most of the links.

    I thought they were cracking down on that, but maybe not. Of course, might be the only way to get hard currency in.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    The article was a bit ambiguous. It described flying out of Caracas as 'virtually impossible' now but I'm not sure if that's due to a government crackdown or just not enough airlines to meet demand.

  • ||

    t described flying out of Caracas as 'virtually impossible' now but I'm not sure if that's due to a government crackdown or just not enough airlines to meet demand.

    I recall the latter: all flights are booked for like three months in advance.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Maine Governor wants to ease child labor laws so kids can work during summer

    HuffPo freaks the fuck out:

    shwicksdad
    POLITICAL PUNDIT·2,138 Fans
    Business can get away paying kids rock bottom wages claiming they have no skills and the jobs are entry level. What better way to keep from having to pay an adult a decent wage then to have an enlarged pool if unskilled labor you can justify paying nothing, keep them all part time, pay no benefits on and call all the jobs entry level? Do you geniuses have any clue why we have 49 million people on food stamps? Because you won't hire and pay adults to work at a decent wage where they can support a family without food stamps, that's why. But you jokers just keep worrying about finding new and better ways to make sure you get more for yourselves while the social welfare rolls keep growing

    I wonder how this guy feels about immigration

    Damothedevo
    SUPER USER·238 Fans
    Typical gop professing to help people while as a by product they can lower wages and working conditions. "Oh my did that happen? Hevens to betsy I only wanted to help the children"

    connie_o
    SUPER USER·1,652 Fans·An Independent Thinker
    The Republican party won't be satisfied until they take us back to the dark ages. With the high unemployment number there are plenty of adults looking for work so this is just an attempt to work children at a lower pay rate to save money

  • SweatingGin||

    Business can get away paying kids rock bottom wages claiming they have no skills and the jobs are entry level. What better way to keep from having to pay an adult a decent wage then to have an enlarged pool if unskilled labor you can justify paying nothing, keep them all part time, pay no benefits on and call all the jobs entry level?

    Think he is a "retired" life guard? Short-order cook? Early 50s assistant manager at a fast food restaurant?

  • Sevo||

    I think he's a 'public servant'.

  • The Bearded Hobbit||

    Mom grew up in northern Maine, potatoe country. She mentioned that it was common practice for school to let out for several weeks during harvest season so that the kids could help out.

    This wasn't called "oppression" this was called "opportunity".

    ... Hobbit

  • Sevo||

    Mowing grass, raking leaves, baby-sitting, shoveling snow.
    Yep, I'm gonna hire an adult, pay the minimum wage and the health-care benes, too! Just so s/he can support h/is-er family of 5!

  • SweatingGin||

    Not just any adult! One who, in the 3 or more years from age 15 to 18 or higher (say, 26, when he's off his parent's insurance) has not managed to acquire ANY skills that would make him more productive than the minimum wage!

    Including things like "Showing up!" and "not stealing!"

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Don't forget their 3 kids and lack of a husband.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Maine Governor wants to ease child labor laws so kids can work during summer

    HuffPo freaks the fuck out:

    shwicksdad
    POLITICAL PUNDIT·2,138 Fans
    Business can get away paying kids rock bottom wages claiming they have no skills and the jobs are entry level. What better way to keep from having to pay an adult a decent wage then to have an enlarged pool if unskilled labor you can justify paying nothing, keep them all part time, pay no benefits on and call all the jobs entry level? Do you geniuses have any clue why we have 49 million people on food stamps? Because you won't hire and pay adults to work at a decent wage where they can support a family without food stamps, that's why. But you jokers just keep worrying about finding new and better ways to make sure you get more for yourselves while the social welfare rolls keep growing

    I wonder how this guy feels about immigration

    Damothedevo
    SUPER USER·238 Fans
    Typical gop professing to help people while as a by product they can lower wages and working conditions. "Oh my did that happen? Hevens to betsy I only wanted to help the children"

    connie_o
    SUPER USER·1,652 Fans·An Independent Thinker
    The Republican party won't be satisfied until they take us back to the dark ages. With the high unemployment number there are plenty of adults looking for work so this is just an attempt to work children at a lower pay rate to save money

  • Ted S.||

    They freaked out twice.

  • ||

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...now that is what I like to see. Seahawks touchdown off of a sack and fumble.

  • Game of Gnomes||

    Police officier in fear for his life kills newly married fireman.

    http://www.kansascity.com/2013.....ot-by.html

    Sorry I don't know how to make my links fancy.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    The officer who shot him was in uniform but working another job off-duty when he responded to a reported assault on a cab driver at 12th and Wyandotte streets, Kansas City police said. The officer found a suspect near 13th Street and Baltimore Avenue. When the officer approached, the man started to attack him, police said.

    The officer, who was not immediately identified, told investigators that he feared for his life. He shot Bruno in the chest.

    Police said the officer performed CPR on Bruno, who was a third-generation member of the fire department. He was taken to a hospital, where he later died.

    The officer also was taken to a hospital with serious injuries.

    Yeah, I'm going to have to avoid judgment on this one. Clearly the cop suffered harm during the altercation, so this may have been justified.

  • Andrew S.||

    I'll reserve judgement myself, but I have a bad feeling that serious injuries involved those caused by the firefighter's body striking the officer's fist.

    But that's just because I've become way, way, way too cynical. Or maybe just cynical enough. I dunno.

  • Ted S.||

    Sorry I don't know how to make my links fancy.

    In between less than and greater than signs, type, a href="[URL to your article goes here]". Note that the quote marks are necessary for enclosing the URL.

    Then close the tag by having a /a in between another set of less than and greater than signs. (Unfortunately, H&R doesn't allow you to show the greater or less than signs.) So your link could look something like:

    Game of Gnomes thinks Ted S. is brilliant for showing him how to do HTML links

  • ||

    Well done.

  • Sevo||

  • Ted S.||

    I'd like to think Game of Gnomes is more intelligent or less snarky than Sevo. ;-)

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Or you could use Chrome and Reasonable and do it with a mouse-click.

  • Game of Gnomes||

  • Game of Gnomes||

  • Game of Gnomes||

  • ||

    Link fanciness is a product of either using Reasonable (Chrome, Opera or a Chromium derived browser only), or learning rudimentary html (I suck at html, but can remember the few necessary to comment).

    You might want to try Comodo Dragon, which is based on Chromium, with and emphasis on privacy/security.

    Or just use Opera like Ted.

  • Game of Gnomes||

    Is it bad that I noticed that the officer had injuries and thought maybe he purposely hurt himself after he killed the fireman?

  • Irish||

    Liberal family member tries to sit down conservative family and talk about Obamacare after Thanksgiving dinner.

    Hilarity ensues.

    She actually pulls them into the room by lying to them about taking a family picture.

    This is how a free society dies.

  • ||

    That's funny.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    That has to be a staged satire, right? I mean no one is really that tone deaf and cultish, right?

  • ||

    According to the uploader comments, it's real and unrehearsed:

    I took this video because "I" knew what my liberal relative was going to try to do and I knew how my unsuspecting consevative family was going to react. I just had to capture the moment on video! Btw, that's really how my sister laughs...hence, we don't tell her jokes much. Sorry about the potrait view, didn't know I would post it.
  • Ted S.||

    And of course the comments have the obligatory Canadian engaging in anti-American xenophobia.

    For some reason, multiculturalism never seems to include American culture.

  • Irish||

    That's because liberals don't know what culture is. They think culture and diversity mean 'a lot of people who aren't white.'

    This is why the NHL gets mocked for not being diverse when an NHL team might have people from 7 different countries on it, but an NBA team is the proud owner of one million diversities even if every player comes from the same three cities.

  • Tejicano||

    Yeah, I get a kick out of how most progs I run into seem to give me a bunch of "diversity" cred because I'm fluent in Japanese when the real motivation which originally got me into the language was to get laid when I was stationed here in the Marines. And the reason I stuck with it was to parlay it into a nice gig with a Fortune 100 corporation over here.

  • ||

    So by their logic, liberals should be the biggest fans of soccer in the whole world.

    I don't know what they mock the NHL about. Aside from the rise of black players and players coming from a dozen countries, North American born players come from so many different cultural backgrounds (Native, Jewish, Asian, French-Canadian, Italian, Irish, English, Polish, Ukranian, Greek, etc.) it's also a sport up their alley.

    The fuckers.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    "First of all, I want you all to know how much I love you, even if you don't health insurance"

    WTF???

  • ||

    Holy shite.

    Cult of personality......

  • The Bearded Hobbit||

    "Involuntary manslaughter"

    Because they were going to beat him within an inch of his life BUT NO MORE!!

    ... Hobbit

  • benji||

    Just in time for your Newtown Anniversary Parties:
    http://www.mediaite.com/online.....ry-events/

  • benji||

    Stand as one with the families!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bag14NLCYAAJ9gI.png

  • Sevo||

    That bloody shirt is just too tempting for Obo, isn't it?

  • Ted S.||

    If rounding up the children and putting them in concentration camps where only responsible, government-approved adults can look after them will save even one life, don't we have an obligation to try?

  • Winston||

    YKWE sent children to concentration camps for their own good?

  • SweatingGin||

    South Park!

  • Generic Stranger||

    FDR?

  • SweatingGin||

    Clearly OFA's site has been hacked by gun nuts wanting to make them look crass and heartless.

    Clearly.

  • Winston||

    You Know Who Else celebrated children being shot?

    Besides the owners of monocle factories that is;)

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    SEAHAWKS gonna blow this.

  • Winston||

    Maybes Niles can rub a team member's head?

  • ||

    Did you see that stat at the beginning of the half? The Saints are, what, 0-38 all-time when trailing by 20 at the half and Seattle 28-0? Something like that.

    Those are some numbers.

    Seattle seems to be strong in deep coverage. Which basically takes away New Orleans passing game and big play chances.

  • ||

    If they blow a 34-7 lead they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

  • ||

    You want to walk that back, or are you going to stand by it?

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    I was just trying to piss you off

  • ||

    How can you piss me off when what you say isn't possible? NOW YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    you have my mouth confused with someone else's mother!!!

  • Warrren||

    Same tightness and snaggletooth so it's an easy mistake.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    minus the nicotine stains

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Alright, fourth quarter. Here comes 30 unanswered points from New 'Awh-leens.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    If I were attacked while being part of a human chain defending a church from vandals, I suppose I could get worse attackers than these ladies:

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne.....en-defend#

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    It says the vandals were taking part an annual event "sponsored by the Department of Culture as a 'social interest' event."

  • Cyto||

    Major props to the guys defending the church. They appeared to respond to all the abuse and minor physical assaults in a non-violent manner that also defended their property from vandalism. Well played, gentlemen.

    And a big razzie to whoever put the blur-outs on the video. And the text says the women performed sex acts in front of the men. Double razzie for whoever decided to leave that one on the cutting room floor.

  • ||

    Saw this story a while back.

    Bunch of cunts looking to murder penises.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Nevada prostitutes support Obamacare

    MOUND HOUSE, Nev. — President Barack Obama has at least one segment of America behind his health care law: the legalized prostitutes at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch.

    The girls who work at the Bunny Ranch tell KRNV-TV that it was nearly impossible for them to get health insurance before because of their profession.

    “Having this profession, we aren’t exactly offered group health insurance,” Taylor Lee said. “It’s hard because I do have a pre-existing condition so I really support Obamacare. I’m excited.”

    Caressa Kisses said that insurance providers equated them to illegal prostitutes who have sexually transmitted diseases.

    “We’re independent contractors. We have to get our own insurance but this is truly a blessing,” Kisses told KRNV. “I hope they work the kinks out and that affordable health care happens for all because it is really needed.”

    Brothel owner Dennis Hof, though, does not back Obamacare. He’s worried he might have to provide health care coverage to his employees at his brothels and strip club.

    “What am I going to do? I’m either going to have to spend a lot of money on health insurance because the rates are going up or I’m going to have to face severe penalties, so I’m really perplexed about all of this,” Hof told KRNV.

  • ||

    “I hope they work the kinks out and that affordable health care happens for all because it is really needed.”

    I giggled.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    The community that is home to four brothels is called Mound House. I wonder if that is intentional?

  • Warrren||

    Right in Beautiful Downtown Puddington.

  • amagi1776||

    It's times like these I wish I wasn't against the death penalty.

  • Irish||

    I just found the greatest Ezra Klein comment of all time.

    First he mocks Bush and claims there's no way Bush reads as much as CSPAN claimed:

    BOOKS OF SAND. Chalk me up as one of those skeptics who don't buy, not even for a second, the spin that George W. Bush has read more than sixty books this year (via Steve Benen). C-SPAN claims to have a partial catalog of his reading list, but none of it makes any sense.

    What is his evidence for this?

    This is the claim of someone who wants to project dominance in a field he doesn't understand, and so wildly overreaches. Reading books, particularly nonfiction books, takes a really long time. It's hard, and it's boring, and I say this all as an effete liberal intellectual who likes reading long, boring books but can't, like everyone else I know, seem to finish them.

    I hang around exclusively with morons, and there is no way that anyone on Earth is more intelligent than the drooling dullards I meet in Washington D.C.

    This quote is from way back in 2006, but I could imagine him saying something like this today.

  • Warrren||

    Greatest Ezra Klein anything is like picking the most awesome venereal disease.

  • Irish||

    The issue with the Constitution is not that people don’t read the text and think they’re following it. The issue with the Constitution is that the text is confusing because it was written more than a hundred years ago.
  • Generic Stranger||

    ...so Ezra Klein self-identified as a moron, and didn't even realize it.

    Precious.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    Jumping fans register a magnitude 1 or 2 quake during Seahawks TD fumble return

  • ||

    You've never been in or around CenturyLink during a game, have you.

    I have tried to see if I can hear them from my deck, but it's just slightly too far and I'm on the wrong side of the building.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Our favorite feminist is peeved that people strawman feminism

    I have a very simple request to put out there for pundits, journalists, scientists, etc: If you’re going to argue with “feminists”, could you take the time to bother quoting even just one who has the argument you claim they have? Paul Bloom is a researcher who wrote a piece for the NY Times arguing against the contention that feeling lust for or even just seeing someone naked necessarily means you objectify and demean them. He feels that this argument needs to be made because of all those terrible “feminists” with their terrible talk about “objectification” and wah.

    Many contemporary feminists agree that sexual desire, particularly when elicited by pornographic images, can lead to “objectification.” The objectifier (typically a man) thinks of the target of his desire (typically a woman) as a mere thing, lacking autonomy, individuality and subjective experience.

    It’s an argument that should immediately raise a red flag because it’s based on an assumption—that feminists believe that only men feel sexual desire—that is so obviously false that it’s laughable. But hey, let’s go with it. Surely he can find some quotes from feminists stating that sexual desire in and of itself—and not sexism—is the problem. For instance, uh, Immanuel Kant.

  • Warrren||

    Strawwoman you mean, right?

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    strawwomyn

  • Warrren||

    I am asahmed.

  • Winston||

    asahmed

    Racist!

  • ||

    W00t! Does this mean I'm off the hook for objectifying men because it isn't sexism?

    I have a college acquaintance I need to enlighten.

  • Agammamon||

    Only white men - because we aren't a protected class.

  • Irish||

    It’s an argument that should immediately raise a red flag because it’s based on an assumption—that feminists believe that only men feel sexual desire—that is so obviously false that it’s laughable.

    Since this isn't at all what he said, Amanda Marcotte is creating a strawman while whining about strawmen.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Let he who has never burnt a straw man strike the first match!

  • Irish||

    Yeah, just what I'd expect a road hating libertarian to say.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    If anything this article shows she has either zero shame or zero self-awareness since a few weeks ago she wrote, on the same website, an article that asserted libertarianism can't work because people would have to know everything.

    Needless to say she did not attempt to refute the work of Hayek or other Austrian economists that have extensively written on the subject.

  • Winston||

    asserted libertarianism can't work because people would have to know everything.

    I suppose governments know everything then.

  • ||

    Well, the NSA does -- except how to filter out a Snowden.

  • Winston||

    Or to stop the Boston Marathon bombers. Or Warty.

  • Winston||

    Enough of your gendered male logic Irish! She feels...Oh wait isn't that a female stereotype.

  • seguin||

    It's like an Inception of stupid.

    Scruntception. Dipshitception...I'll come up with a decent portmanteau for it, by golly.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Howard Dean urges the party base Forward! on Obamacare

    Quoted from CNN transcript:

    I fail to see this has anything to do with the president’s competence, other than the procurement process, which has been screwed up for many years, long before this president ever got into office.
    So I lose my patience with this nonsense. And I do believe that the facts are going to be determined by what happens on the ground. And I think three months from now, a lot more people will have health insurance, and a lot more people will be happy with all of this.

    FTA:

    Former Gov. Dean finally said what Democrats should have been saying for weeks. This is all nonsense. Republicans and their media allies need to be called out on it. Candy Crowley was wrong. We do not need to wait and see if the website works when people are on it. The website has been working for weeks with people on it. Between Sunday and Tuesday of last week, 20,000 people signed up.

    Only an idiot who hasn’t been paying attention, or completely insulated inside the Beltway lazy journalist wouldn’t know that. The Republicans have managed to trump up the ACA website issues to the same level as their other bogus scandals.

    Howard Dean had enough of this nonsense, and he called it out. Democrats out number Republicans in this country, and they to a person should be doing the exact same thing.

  • Winston||

    Brings me back to the days when Dean was considered one of the more libertarianish Dems.

    http://reason.com/archives/200.....-jackalope

    In 2003 Dean had been the relatively obscure governor of Vermont, known for his surprising support of gun rights, military interventions, and fiscal conservatism.

    Well he still supports military interventions so I guess he is consistent somewhat.

  • seguin||

    Forward unto the breach men! SQL to left of me, HTML5 to the right! The charge of the Prog brigade flying into the face of reality itself.

  • Lord at War||

    Between Sunday and Tuesday of last week, 20,000 people signed up.

    At this rate, the "alleged" 45 million uninsured people in this country that this law is helping will all have insurance sometime in 2031.

    Too bad for the 100 million who lose their "plan" next year-- that will only take another 50 years.

  • ||

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/c.....xury-goods

    So is this going to be a thing now? Academics telling tales of poverty woe and why we should by more sympathetic?

  • Metazoan||

    Who knows what I was not granted for not enacting the right status behaviors or symbols at the right time for an agreeable authority?

    Oh dear jesus, can grievance mongers understand anything in terms other than authority? I mean, could it possibly be that stores are not authorities, but rather collections of other people who are freely associating and offering trades?

    noo...

  • Irish||

    One thing I've learned is that one person's illogical belief is another person's survival skill. And nothing is more logical than trying to survive.

    This is the dumbest pair of sentences I've ever read. Buying a luxury handbag when you don't have the money, which is what Errol Louis was talking about, is not a 'survival skill.' It's actually the exact opposite of a survival skill since it's an excellent way to destroy your life.

    What's going on here is actually pretty simple. Libertarians and conservatives started using evil right wing logic to point out that people living 'in poverty' actually tend to have tons of items that they don't need and that this kind of undercuts the left's narrative of the poor as living hand to mouth. After all, it's difficult to really feel sympathy once you start realizing the percentage of people 'in poverty' who have an XBox and a flat screen T.V.

    So what did the left do? They started claiming that the fact that poor people own lots of luxury goods is actually further evidence of their poverty!

    You see, those luxury goods are bought because the poor benighted poor people don't have wealthy liberals to order their lives for them. Therefore, we should give the Democrats all the power they want so that they can order poor people around and in so doing improve their lives!

    There is nothing patronizing about the preceding paragraph.

  • Irish||

    Liberal apparatchiks begin ground clearing arguments in favor of death panels.

    We may properly hope that scientific advances help ensure, with ever greater reliability, that young people manage to become old people. We are not, however, obliged to help the old become indefinitely older. Indeed, our duty may be just the reverse: to let death have its day.

    Now the article isn't actually about the health care law. It's actually about increased life expectancy through scientific advancement. However, I am suddenly beginning to see a lot of articles from left-wing news outlets about how we need to set grandma adrift on an ice floe once she reaches 80.

    I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that it's becoming increasingly clear that Obamacare will require rationing that will probably result in the elderly dying younger than they otherwise would. Absolutely nothing at all.

  • Winston||

    *lights the Eduard signal*

  • VG Zaytsev||

    You know who else talked about a duty to die?

  • JeremyR||

    A few years ago I picked up a SF book that looked interesting, about how the crew of a scientific ship vanished without a trace.

    I was very depressed to find the reason was that the crew of the ship had found a way to make people immortal, and decided it was a secret too terrible to share, because there wasn't enough resources.

    Even though the SF universe described in the books had anti-gravity, FTL drives, and spaceships were apparently cheap enough for private people to own.

    I think lefties just hate the whole idea of people. They want to either see them not be born, or die as quickly as possible.

  • ||

    I hate local news, edition 6325:

    Scaremongering story about an alleged trend of teens drinking cooking wine, can't help but descend into nagging about the true danger--salt!

  • ||

  • ||

    This story was fresh two decades ago on the west coast of Canada. Except then it was about homeless winos, not teenagers.

  • Dweebston||

    It's adorable that journalists think teens don't have ready access to better stuff than cooking wine.

  • ||

    But cooking wine is an unregulated menace!

  • ||

    I'd almost be okay with cooking wine being regulated out of existence.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    WaPo's Obamacare boner starts to deflate

    The enrollment records for a significant portion of the Americans who have chosen health plans through the online federal insurance marketplace contain errors — generated by the computer system — that mean they might not get the coverage they’re expecting next month.

    The errors cumulatively have affected roughly one-third of the people who have signed up for health plans since Oct. 1, according to two government and health-care industry officials. The White House disputed the figure but declined to provide its own.

    The mistakes include failure to notify insurers about new customers, duplicate enrollments or cancellation notices for the same person, incorrect information about family members, and mistakes involving federal subsidies. The errors have been accumulating since HealthCare.gov opened two months ago, even as the Obama administration has been working to make it easier for consumers to sign up for coverage, the government and industry officials said.

    Figuring out how to clean up the backlog of errors and prevent similar ones in the future is emerging as the new imperative if the federal insurance exchange is to work as intended.

  • ||

    "The White House disputed the figure but declined to provide its own."

    Having a conversation with this administration is like talking to a teenager about where they were last night.

    You cant get a straight answer about anything. Every question is answered with non-answers, diversions, delays, and obfuscations.

    What a bunch of mendacious fucks.

  • SIV||

  • Warrren||

    Was finally going to watch the Zakarian video but it has disappeared. Odd.

  • playa manhattan||

    Yup, it 404ed for me too... I hadn't heard about it until my brother told me about it at Thanksgiving...

  • ||

  • woodNfish||

    Execute the cops for murder. Why haven't the other 4 been charged? What got them off? I doubt they deserved to get off as most cops are abusive thugs.

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