A Response to "Nick Gillespie’s Dishonest Daily Beast Article Discredits Him"

Earlier this week, I wrote a story for The Daily Beast titled "Nostalgia Act: The Great Sarah Palin Revival Tour of 2013." The story was reposted at Reason.com on June 20 as well. The thrust of the piece was that, despite recent comments by the former Alaska governor and Republican vice-presidential candidate that were favorable toward libertarian ideas, Palin is not particularly libertarian. With particular reference to the speech she gave at last weekend's "Road to Majority" gathering of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, I argued that she is more of a populist than anything like a libertarian. On social issues, after all, she's against marriage equality and pot legalization, and in her recent remarks seemed dead-set against letting more immigrants legally enter the country. The politician she name-checked at the Faith and Freedom Coalition was Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), a Tea Party favorite who is also unambiguously against immigration reform and who just this week came out in favor of invading Syria (to grab that country's chemical weapons). Interestingly, Palin voiced support for NSA leaker Edward Snowden and reluctance to enter Syria, but did so in a way that seemed more partisan than principled (go here to check her various statements about Iraq, Afghanistan, and foreign policy more generally).

I noted as well that if the GOP is actually interested in capturing more independent and younger voters (as various official party spokesmen and members have said), they would do better to look toward libertarian-leaning House members such as Reps. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) and Thomas Massie (R-Ky.). They, along with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) aren't down-the-line libertarians but they are not only smart, youthful, and self-evidently electable, they favor decentralizing power and cutting spending. When it comes to gay marriage, for instance, each believes in devolving the matter to the states or getting the government out of the certification business altogether. That's despite them all being believing Christians of various denominations (and all, like Palin, generally anti-abortion).

In my article, I questioned Palin's dedication to reducing government spending, citing a 2010 article for Reason in which I had written that

As a former governor of a state that receives about $14,000 in federal money per resident (only the District of Columbia gets more) and whose total spending increased 16 percent between 2007 and 2009, she is not very credible as a fiscal conservative.

That figure, along with the larger points of my Beast piece, elicited a response from Stacy Drake of Conservatives4Palin.com titled, "Nick Gillespie’s Dishonest Daily Beast Article Discredits Him." Labeling me a "hater" whose "disdain" for Palin links me to "a long list of leftwingers and BIG government republican’s [sic]," she particularly took issue with my characterization of Palin's spending as governor.

In fact, she argues, "Between 2007 and 2010, Governor Palin cut state spending in Alaska by 9.5%" (emphasis in original). Drake then links to a 2009 post at Conservatives4Palin that says the following:

Governor Murkowski’s last budget FY2007: $11,697,400,000

Governor Palin’s latest budget FY2010: $10,570,000,000

Total reduction in spending between 2007 and 2010: a whopping 9.5% or $1,127,400,000

Via Twitter, I sent Drake a link to this chart I generated at the site US Government Spending, which shows total spending by state and local governments in Alaska rising from $11.66 billion in 2007 to $14.52 billion in 2009 (in nominal dollars). Those figures are in turn based on Census data showing that state-only spending in Alaska rose from $9.2 billion in FY2007 to $10 billion in FY2008 to $11 billion in FY2009 to $11 billion again in FY2010. That comes to roughly a 20 percent increase in spending between 2007 and 2009 (my original benchmark in my 2010 story) and again in 2010 itself (for a chart of that, go here).

For an alternative accounting of spending in Alaska, I went to the state's OMB archives. There I found that in FY2007, total authorization to spend (including permanent fund) was $11.7 billion (line 47). In FY 2008, which would have been Palin's first budget, the figure came to $11.5 billion (line 54). In FY2009, total authorization to spend came to $12.9 billion (line 53). In FY2010, that figure dropped to $10.6 billion (line 57). That's about a 10 percent decrease in spending between 2007 and 2010.

I don't know what explains the difference between the Census data and the Alaska data, which show radically different results; I am adding a note about the disparity to the article. But Alaska's data shows a sharp decline in spending. Had Palin finished a full term instead of dropping out with 18 months to go, we'd have a better sense of whether the 2010 number was the beginning of an effort to consistently drive down spending over time.

Further notes on the reaction to my story:

Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit dings with me a charge (I think) of "oikophobia," which he says is common among Palin's critics. As someone who has written about Palin a fair amount over the years - and someone who panned Joe McGinniss's vile biography of Palin in the Washington Post - I've always been taken aback by hostility that Palin evokes and I don't consider myself a "hater" towards her. By the same token, I see no reason to soften criticisms of her because her enemies all-too-often trade in lower-than-low insults.

Note: I had originally misidentified Drake as male and have changed the text. Apologies on that score.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • RBS||

    Her fanboys are just as bad as her critics.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Exactly. This is what you get for wading into the Sarah Palin fever swamps Nick.

  • ||

    It gets him page views, though.

    If you are getting worked up about Palin in any way, shape, or form, you are an idiot and need to reassess your priorities. Jesus fucking Christ the KULTUR WAR morons are stupid.

  • SIV||

    It gets him page views, though.

    Page views from people who then learn Nick Gillespie is a sloppy journalist and a statist asshole.

  • ||

    Seriously?

  • SIV||

    Sloppy journalist=RTFA and for that matter "fact check" dozens of Gillespie posts. He is not so much disingenuous as really fucking sloppy, repeating discredited tweets and Salon articles as matters of fact

    Statist asshole? Do you think Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal are "next generation GOP leaders liberty-minded folk should be excited about"? Should a "libertarian" be pushing hard for a bill that promises to put a Border Patrol agent every 1000 feet along the Mexican border?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    And let that Two Minute Hate be a lesson to you, Nick Gillespie, about what happens to those who do not love Big Brother sufficiently.

  • ||

    Uh oh, where's John to tell Nick that he's just "A BIG MEANIE!!!"?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Stacy is a girl's name.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I HAVE.

  • GILMORE||

    Stacy Andrews, 6'6", would like to correct you

    http://prod.static.giants.club.....rticle.jpg

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    Fuck her.

  • RyanXXX||

    "Excuse"? What does that mean in this context? That Reason should trash everything Greenwald writes because he isn't a capital-L Libertarian?

    I'd take Greenwald over the three Repubs you mentioned any day

  • ||

    Let me be clear...

    Sarah Palin does not have a single libertarian bone in her entire body. She is as socon as socon gets.

    She is directly responsible for hijacking/derailing the Tea Party movement, which in its infancy actually had some libertarian potential.

    Fuck her with Lindsey Graham's dick!

  • Irish||

    Yes, I can't stand Palin either. The point is that when progs agree with libertarians, Gillespie never writes a hand wringing post about whether or not we should embrace them. It only happens with conservatives.

    I also think that throwing Cruz in with Palin is just ridiculous. Palin's endorsement did help Cruz during fundraising, but Cruz and Palin have very little in common. Cruz is much smarter, closer to libertarianism, and is less of an idiotic populist. Throwing Cruz in with Palin and saying libertarians shouldn't support Cruz was just bizarre.

  • Cytotoxic||

    She is directly responsible for hijacking/derailing the Tea Party movement

    No she's not.

  • ||

    The fuck she didn't.

    When the TP first started it was about fiscal responsibility, limited government and adhering to the constitution. When that cunt realized it had legs she proclaimed herself TP and started blathering about social issues.

    She, PERSONALLY, made Tea Party mean far right nutjob.

    Fuck her with John McCain's dick (and bring the Viagra).

  • Irish||

    Well, if Lindsay Graham is already fucking her, I assume that John McCain's dick would be pretty close by.

    Yeah. Good luck getting to sleep tonight, H&R.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Jesus Christ, Irish. Between this and the White Indian/Santorum fanfic, it's like you're trying to become the next Sugarfree.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I think it was more institutional than anything Sarah Palin did.

    SOCONs are the largest advocacy group in the GOP, as far as grassroots activism and voter-motivated initiatives go. They wanted a piece of the pie, and when it comes right down to it, established libertarian groups like CATO and Reason didn't even offer up so much as a fight for the heart and soul of the Tea Party. FreedomWorks is the only organization that I could see consistently fighting for the Tea Party to stay the course on fiscal discipline. Palin is a very small part of the party: she has her supporters, but the Tea Party is bigger than her and the change in the Tea Party can't be explained by her rise.

    I will also point out that the Tea Party is still the only group running candidates who are halfway decent. It's not a completely lost cause.

  • Irish||

    The TP gave us Paul, Cruz and Massie. Amash also got endorsed by the Tea Party, although I don't think he considered himself part of the group.

    The Tea Party also supported nutcases like Bachmann and O'Donnell.

    The Tea Party is too diffuse of an organization to say 'They stand for X.' I saw Emily Ekins on Fox talking about the TP, and she pointed out that there are libertarian tea partiers, and then there are conservative tea partiers. They all agree on fiscal discipline, but there's a wide range of beliefs on social issues.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    The Tea Party at its best is a nascent, immature version of the NRA: a single-issue advocacy group for limited and Constitutional governance.

    At its worst, it's all the factions that make up conservatism tearing each other apart and endorsing various batshit insane or unelectable pols out of spite moreso than purpose.

    Libertarians could have played a big part in shaping it into the former, and as is FreedomWorks is doing good work on maintaining its focus.

  • ||

    The Tea Party is too diffuse of an organization to say 'They stand for X.'

    And that was their downfall. The grassroots supporters should have stepped up and gone on record from the very beginning proclaiming "THIS is what we stand for." Before the mainstream pols had the chance to turn it into whatever served their immediate purposes.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The grassroots supporters should have stepped up and gone on record from the very beginning proclaiming "THIS is what we stand for."

    They did, and you hate them for it.

    There's a lot of overlap between fiscal conservative positions and so cons.

    Libertarian purists, like you, are the ones that blew it but sticking to your exclusivist cultism rather than build situational coalitions.

  • ||

    Purist?

    I don't think you've been paying attention. I think everyone should be able to come to the meetings. Hell, even the anarchists. Once we rule the world we can start fighting amongst ourselves about whose brand of libertarianism is best. Until then, all are welcome.

    But OTOH, I am smart enough to realize that socons are NOT libertarians in any way, shape or form. They would do to social liberty what the progressives have done to fiscal liberty.

    If you want to call yourself a libertarian, your philosophy must promote ALL liberty, for everyone. If it doesn't, you're simply a conservative with an identity crisis.

  • Azathoth!!||

    But OTOH, I am smart enough to realize that solibs are NOT libertarians in any way, shape or form. They would do to all liberty what the progressives have done to fiscal liberty.

    See how easy?

    Put 'social' in front of it and it undermines the word.

    Libertarians stand for liberty. Not 'social' liberty and fiscal liberty. They stand for liberty. They act with the idea of liberty first.

    'Social' liberals are, ever and anon, exposed as statists. They mouth the words, to get the dimwitted to support them, but every 'social' liberty is used as a club. Each acceptance of diversity is used to keep like minded people apart and fighting over inconsequential trivialities while statism marches on.

  • Cytotoxic||

    She, PERSONALLY, made Tea Party mean far right nutjob.

    I really thought you were smarter than this FDA. Get this through your head: in today's mediascape, not adhering to TEAM makes you a nutjob, period. Dissent is dangerous and must be othered. And it will be. Palin is nothing. It's hilarious because people like you are the source of her power, which is...the illusion of power.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    No he's not, but people like him are the source of the establishment's power.

    Palin's appeal was and is that she is outside of the two party power elite, which one would think would appeal to 'libertarians'. She had and has somewhat inconsistent political beliefs, except that she has consistently been opposed to centralized state authority, which also seem like it should appeal to libertarians.

    And the linking of her to McCain's fascism is seriously flawed analysis. McCain picked her, not the other way around, and likely did so to get her out of Alaskan politics as a favor to his buddies there. She was an effective reformer in that corrupt state.

    The media attacked her because they recognized that she represented a real threat to the establishment duopoly, using the tired meme that she was an idiotic racist, blah blah blah.

    The narrative is completely ridiculous and the fact that so many 'libertarians' fell for it hook, line and sinker is pathetic.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Hey, Todd Palin used to be registered with the Alaska Independence Party, which sounds kind of libertarian. So she may well have had a libertarian bone in her body.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I'm a big fan of carrot-and-stick. Suck Greenwald's dick whenever he writes libertarian content on the War on Drugs? Great, but it seems like Reason's idea of carrot and stick is to save the carrot for card-carrying progressives and to save the stick for libertarian-leaning Republicans.

  • ||

    SP is NOT a libertarian leaning anything.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I'll disagree with you there (and BTW, neither is Greenwald), but I'm thinking more of Ted Cruz as the archetype of a libertarian-leaning conservative Republican.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Yes she is, whether you want to believe it or not. Palin is improving slowly but steadily.

  • David Emami||

    Going over her positions that I know of...

    For libertarian position: gun rights, jury rights, government spending & taxes, socialized medicine, environmental regulations.

    Against libertarian position: drug rights, abortion rights, gay marriage (due to wanting to make it a federal issue).

    Not perfect, but it sure looks like "leans libertarian" to me.

  • SIV||

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    Government spending & taxes: yeah...I'm going to want to see a federal budget outline before I take that bait. I was told Paul Ryan was a fiscal conservative, too. I tossed the Republicans long, long ago for lying to me about fiscal conservatism. They're only fiscally conservative when a Democrat is president.

    Somebody somewhere in the thread made the death metal-Bon Jovi comparison. I'm thinking Palin is "Never Say Goodbye" and I'm more "The Thing That Should Not Be" (not death metal, but I'm fucking stuck on that song lately. Plus, I hate the Cookie Monster stuff).

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    My friend who was in AK government described her as a "Denmark conservative" -- in essence, lousy when it comes to spending but very, very good on regulation and other size of government fiscal issues.

  • SIV||

    I was told Paul Ryan was a fiscal conservative, too.

    Paul Ryan voted for TARP and the auto bailouts. His "fisc-con cred" was solely based on proposing limiting the growth of entitlements as part of an increasing budget. He was only a Tea Party candidate to the media.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Francisco d Anconia| 6.21.13 @ 6:14PM |#

    SP is NOT a libertarian leaning anything.

    That's your ignorant bias showing.

    She would be the most libertarian president ever (not saying much) if she ever attained that office.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Plenty of gay libertarians would be happy to give Glenn both the carrot and the stick.

  • Mike M.||

    Personally I want Nick Gillespie to explain his comments about Christie, Rubio and Jindal.

    The explanation is that he he has no more intention of supporting Rand Paul than any other republican, because he knows where his bread is buttered.

    The other guys mentioned can be fairly easily dismissed, but he REALLY doesn't want to have to come up with an intelligent-sounding credible explanation for why Paul isn't good enough for him.

  • Irish||

    Get ready for another 200 comment pissing contest. I am so psyched.

    Honestly, what would we do without the vile horror visited upon us by Sarah Palin threads?

  • Killazontherun||

    I could care less about Palin. All the power in the world she has right now comes from the on-line traction of articles written about her.

  • RBS||

    Yeah, why mention her at all? She has no job, isn't running for one and certainly isn't any kind of "leader" of the liberty movement.

  • SIV||

    Yeah, why mention her at all?

    Nick is suffering from oikophobia. He can't help himself.

  • Jayburd||

    I think she still holds a gillnet permit.

  • MWG||

    You mean you COULDN'T care less!

    Sorry, just trying to set the pissing contest off before John gets here.

  • Killazontherun||

    I already have an official grammar correcting stalker, thank you very much.

  • Brandon||

    Yeah, back off, MWG!

  • Hugh Akston||

    Talk about abortion?

  • MWG||

    How about the theory that Palin has had multiple abortions?

    Discuss.

  • Irish||

    I hear that she once aborted a late-term fetus and then circumcised it postmortem, just out of spite.

  • Killazontherun||

    BIGGEST THREAD EVER!

    Wait, and used the foreskin for her thick crust pizza topping!

    Which she enjoyed while quaffing down a microbrew.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    I hear fried foreskins taste excellent when dipped in artisnal mayonaise.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    No way. We can't have BIGGEST THREAD without someone mentioning either the Santorum kids or a certain Caucasian with anarcho-primitivist views...

  • Irish||

    What if Santorum's crying daughter IS White Indian?

    Stay with me. The girl was very pale, so the white part is obvious. One day, little Girltorum stumbles upon H&R.

    "This seems like an interesting site! I like it's orange color scheme," she says, holding her identically dressed doll close to her chest.

    "Wow! There seems to be an article about me!"

    She begins to read. Slowly, a fury grows as the collective hatred of H&R commenters infects her.

    She leans back in her chair, a slow smile creeping across her face.

    'Sarah Santorum* is dead,' she says finally. 'Only White Indian remains. I shall have my vengeance.'

    *Yes, I did look up Girltorum's name for this fan fiction.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    What if Santorum's crying daughter IS White Indian?

    Not likely, unless her tears were sparked by a huge pile of litter in the back of the conference room where her dad was making his concession speech.

    Even then, I doubt the sincerity of a White Indian who doesn't restrain him or herself to a single, poignant tear and a meaningful look when faced with such ecological devastation.

  • Irish||

    You clearly weren't listening. She became White Indian after that concession speech.

    Get the chronology write, city-statist.

  • Irish||

    Get the chronology write right

    I promise that I'm normally a good speller in my day to day life. Something about posting her saps me of my ability to use the right words.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    It's OK, Irish. Not all of us can reach the level of Marcotte-like prose and spelling.

  • Brandon||

    I thought White Indian was the sad woman from dallas?

  • Cytotoxic||

    Jesus that's creepy and hilarious at the same time.

  • SugarFree||

    'Sarah Santorum* is dead,' she says finally. 'Only White Indian remains. I shall have my vengeance.'

    I support this interpretation of events.

  • hotsy totsy||

    Made with GMOs!

  • ||

    I can't believe she mutilated a baby by having it circumcised. Clearly the child was bullied.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    How many babies does it take to paint the White house red?

    Depends on how hard you throw them.

  • Bruce Majors||

    An Aleut delicacy.

  • Rrabbit||

    How about the theory that Palin has had multiple abortions?

    In Russia.

  • Killazontherun||

    In fact, I wished he would ignore her, and write and focus on his problems with Cruz. Cruz has a better standing with libertarians than Palin, and if Gillespie thinks that is problematic, ditch the out worn, tread bare material on Palin and focus on that. He may even be able to win me over though I still believe its too soon stick a fork in Cruz and declare him done.

  • Killazontherun||

    out worn, thread bare material on Palin

  • Kurt||

    worn out, threadbare

  • Bruce Majors||

    He could go back to having debates on TV with Ann Coulter. What do you have against brunettes?

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    It's Friday. I have whiskey. I'll think of something.

  • Killazontherun||

    Fortunately for libertarian-minded voters, Palin and Cruz are hardly the only fishes in the sea. As the recent report on young voters from the College Republican National Committee pointed out, the GOP is flush with next-generation leaders, among them Chris Christie, Rubio, and Bobby Jindal.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....-2013.html

    And you still don't see a problem with that, Nick? On what planet is Cruz a less viable choice than Christie when you are limited to the choices put forth there?

  • Mickey Rat||

    "Ted Cruz (R-Texas), a Tea Party favorite who is also unambiguously against immigration reform..."

    Cruz is effectively opposing one of Gillespie's pet issues, therefore he is among the Unforgiven.

  • JeremyR||

    They are for full open borders. Anything less isn't good enough.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Besides opposing the WOD, the free movement of people is at the top of the LP list.

  • SIV||

    Anything less isn't good enough.

    Why are they supporting the current "reform" plan then?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Expanding welfare and requiring a federal permission slip to work are a small price to pay for open borders.

  • SIV||

    Reason specifically supports the current Gang of 8 comprehensive reform senate bill. Nick just admitted it.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Expanding welfare and requiring a federal permission slip to work are a small price to pay for open borders.

  • SIV||

    Don't forget a Border Patrol agent every 1000 feet. I am so not looking forward to driving around SW Texas inside the "internal perimeter".

    Would these cosmotarians support a Federal Medical Marijuana bill that also incresed DEA agents 1000%? "Perfect is the enemy of the good" and all that consequentialist shit.

  • Jayburd||

    Fuck the fence and the Agents, just take down those 'free lunch signs' Downtown Harry Browne used to talk about.

  • Killazontherun||

    This bill coming up is terrible. Any good bill has to ditch the '86 law that penalizes people who hire those without documents. That law enslaved us all to the mire of an over documented life, making it difficult for those who just want a fresh start after screwing up in one locale to move to another. That was an important social dynamic that helped make this country thrive in previous generations that no longer exists. If it doesn't reverse that trend, and this bill doesn't do so, and in fact, adds more teeth to the surveillance, documentation agenda then I in good faith as a libertarian cannot support it.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    The current bill is complete and utter shit. It expands the police state tremendously, places impositions on employers that harm employees (in a recession, no less), provides pardons for those who came here illegally, and doesn't even fix immigration laws so that low-wage immigrants can work here! There is nothing redeeming about the bill as far as I can tell, and I'm big on the idea of liberalizing immigration law.

  • SIV||

    Yet it is the editorial policy of Reason (the electronic version anyways) to support the current proposal.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Those are small prices to pay for more welfare clients.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Because Nick is a KULTR WAR tool and he doesn't realize it.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt any longer.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Angling for a high paying gig with the fascist press.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Hey, the kids are about to start college. And all the Obamanoid journalists are buying million dollar condos and two million dollar houses (see my blog).

  • GILMORE||

    These constant reference to the earlier article about Palin are simply a trap to create more John-Abuse. It is cruel and inhumane.

  • Hash Brown||

    If you just ignore them, they'll go away.

  • Tony||

    Ohh, good, thank you, yes.

  • OldMexican||

    Not here, Tony. There are plenty of Turkish baths out there for your private enjoyment.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Also, Sista Sarah loves the pork - see her avid support for the Bridge to Nowhere.

    Of course, John loves her for the Kulture Wars and her steadfast Christo-fascism.

  • RyanXXX||

    Say what you want about Palin's politics, intellect, or experience as governor....

    I would still stick a finger in her butt

  • Killazontherun||

    And out popped a kid. You're screwed for eighteen years, Little Jack Horner!

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    I'm guessing those eggs are past their sell-by date.

  • Pro Libertate||

    The Urkobold insists there's a Sarah-Bristol sex tape.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Hey, don't steal my shtick.

  • mahamison||

    And thus you and your ilk has degenerated to the lowest form of argument, saying sexual innuendos just to score a point.

  • Paul.||

    By the same token, I see no reason to soften criticisms of her because her enemies all-too-often trade in lower-than-low insults.

    *runs out of room crying*

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    With particular reference to the speech she gave at last weekend's "Road to Majority" gathering of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, I argued that she is more of a populist than anything like a libertarian.

    This isn't a contradiction. Classical liberalism is, contrary to its Marxist critics, highly liberating to the marginalized and those people that the ruling class sees as being shit. Right now, the people the ruling class sees as shit is most of us. Libertarian populism is not a contradiction in terms: it is a feasible and attractive way to implement libertarianism in a democratic system, and can be marketed on that level.

    Oh, but what am I thinking. If libertarians did that, then they might actually be something that extends beyond a Denny's or an internet chat room. They might actually have to be in charge of stuff, thus ruining it for all the people who are in it to feel morally superior to those unwashed who don't even know what Pareto optimality or rational egoism is.

  • Robert||

    I'm afraid Maddox & Lilie, who didn't make a big deal about their choice of the term "populist" in Beyond Liberal and Conservative, nevertheless wound up poisoning the term, implying it to be the opposite pole from "libertarian".

  • Killazontherun||

    I see you are a big fan of Thaddeus Russel too.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Big fan, actually. Renegade History was awesome.

  • sloopyinca||

    Thaddeus Russell? I swear that he was drunkenly hitting on Banjos at a Reason cocktail party when she was 5 or 6 months pregnant last year.

  • sloopyinca||

    Thaddeus Russell? I swear that he was drunkenly hitting on Banjos at a Reason cocktail party when she was 5 or 6 months pregnant last year.

  • SIV||

    she was 5 or 6 months pregnant

    Her tits must of been HUGE

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The problem is that populism is always founded on resentment of what the "other" has that you don't, which mean it inevitable turns anti-capitalist.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Even when the 'other' are government parasites that have stolen it from you in the first place?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The problem is that those parasites usually got their because they're good at manipulating people, so they just get the mob of angry populists distracted with a scapegoat.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Bureaucrats are demagogues now?

  • Hash Brown||

    What's the deal with her neck?

  • GILMORE||

    ligament distortion from chronic blowjob disorder

  • Acosmist||

    Christie is toast and Rubio seems to have a room-temperature IQ.

  • Irish||

    Marco Rubibro is basically a frat boy that went on a bender and when he woke up a few weeks later he'd accidentally been elected to congress.

    I doubt he even remembers the campaign.

  • SIV||

    Rubio seems to have a room-temperature IQ.

    Only if you have a really good air conditioner. One of the vintage models with real freon.

  • Brandon||

    I don't believe Christie makes it 3 more years without a massive heart attack.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    When it comes to gay marriage, for instance, [Massie and Amash] believes in devolving the matter to the states or getting the government out of the certification business altogether. That's despite them all being believing Christians of various denominations (and all, like Palin, generally anti-abortion).

    So did the last Republican Presidential candidate. So did arch-SOCON Rick Perry.

    BTW, so does Palin and (AFAIK) so does Cruz.

    Please Nick, hire someone to factcheck for you

  • SIV||

    Please Nick, hire someone to factcheck for you

    Reason couldn't afford the overtime.

  • GILMORE||

    ""Oikophobia, also ecophobia, is a term used in psychiatry to refer to an aversion to home surroundings. It can also be used more generally to mean an abnormal fear of the home, or of the contents of a house ("fear of household appliances, equipment, bathtubs, household chemicals, and other common objects in the home").[1]

    that makes sense.

    Palin does remind me of a washing machine

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Hey, no fat jokes!

  • Homple||

    Christie is the fat joke.

  • Jayburd||

    He has a good tailor. I think it's Trenton Tarp and Awning.

  • GILMORE||

    I meant "dumb as a..."

  • ||

    OT

    What's the word on this guy? From this, I like him.

    Dr. Ben Carson

  • Irish||

    VERY socially conservative. I don't know what he thinks about legislating morals though. If he's socially conservative but doesn't want to legislate about it, then he's okay by me. I just don't know.

    Unbelievably smart guy though.

  • ||

    Too bad about the socon part. Looks anti-gun too.

    Despite largely expressing conservative viewpoints in his National Prayer Breakfast speech, Carson has also expressed some views at odds with conservatives, such as supporting banning semi-automatic weapons in cities.[22]

    In March 2013, Carson described his opposition to same-sex marriage on Hannity, saying: "Marriage is between a man and a woman. No group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality, it doesn't matter what they are. They don't get to change the definition."
  • Irish||

    Yeah, screw this guy. I'll take him as an ally on economic issues, since, like I said he, he is very smart, but comparing gay marriage to NAMBLA is fucking atrocious.

  • SIV||

    Like comparing Evangelicals to Westboro Baptist.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    A Baptist is a Baptist.

    I grew up in Georgia and live here - I know Baptists cold. I even speak to them in liquor stores.

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all your liquor?

    Invite another Baptist over.

  • Irish||

    Like comparing Evangelicals to Westboro Baptist.

    I agree. I don't know where that came from though. Are you talking about Shrike?

  • ||

    Why won't Baptists have sex standing up?

    People will think they are dancing.

  • SIV||

    In reference to a previous discussion on another thread. Christians who equate Gays and NAMBLA are like gays who equate Evengelicals with Westboro Baptist.

    Both are some mix of ignorance and bigotry.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Alan Keyes v. II.

    Conservatives fawn all over him to establish their "black friend" cred.

  • Irish||

    Does he talk about legislating about his moral beliefs though? If he does, then I agree that I wouldn't want him anywhere near politics.

    If he has no intention of legislating about his moral beliefs, then I really don't give a shit.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Carson is anti-choice and anti-gay marriage.

    Despite the encouragement he has no future in politics unless he moves to a Red State and runs for Congress.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Meh, I see him more as John Bolton, Jr. They don't know anything about his positions, and if they did they probably wouldn't like him, but he once said mean things to a Democrat on TV, so he must be the best person in politics.

  • Killazontherun||

    That's about the best take on him I have seen yet.

  • RagingAlbino||

    Baptists all have a little of the hunger for murder, the minister's especially, and they can slightly satisfy their hunger by sticking people's heads underwater...under God of course.

  • Homple||

    As always, the Libertarians are scared of Palin. The cool kids will laugh even harder at them if there's any hint that Libertarians harbor Palin cooties.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Damn right. She is Bush in culottes. Stupid and proud of it.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Stupid and proud of it.

    You suffer from an enormous amount of projection, don't you?

  • Generic Stranger||

    Well, now we know who's running the Antiwar Libertarian sockpuppet...

  • RyanXXX||

    huh? This guy thinks he's funny "spoofing" me, but just makes himself look like an asshole since I've never expressed anything close to these views. I said something nice about Justin Raimondo once and someone (probably one of the Red Tonys) decided to go full retard over it

  • Cytotoxic||

    Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), a Tea Party favorite who is also unambiguously against immigration reform and who just this week came out in favor of invading Syria (to grab that country's chemical weapons).

    Cruz supported bombing Syria and getting the hell out which is very different from an invasion. Cruz is one of the best in Congress for all his flaws.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Exactly what Obama did in Libya - letting locals rid themself of Qadaffi.

    Glad to see you support the Obama Doctrine.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Bombing people is now 'letting locals do X' Christ you're retarded. And to boot, I never said I supported bombing either Libya or Syria. What is like being a retarded cunt?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You just splooged all over Ted Cruise for supporting the Obama Doctrine and bombing Syria.

  • Cytotoxic||

    NO I FUCKING DIDN'T LRN2FUCKING READ

    Seriously, find the quote that supports your contention. Go fucking find you retard cunt.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    It is just four posts up, you fucking moron.

    Cruz supported bombing Syria and getting the hell out which is very different from an invasion. Cruz is one of the best in Congress for all his flaws.

    Your words.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Palin voiced support for NSA leaker Edward Snowden and reluctance to enter Syria, but did so in a way that seemed more partisan than principled"

    For a huge chuck of the American people out there, especially Democrats, the term "libertarian" means some radical form of Republican--more radical than your average Tea Party.

    Others in Republican party may think of Michelle Malkin and Tucker Carlson as typical libertarians.

    We libertarians look at those people like black metal people look at Bon Jovi. Yeah, most people thought of Bon Jovi as heavy metal. but tp black metal people, Bon Jovi was disco.

    So, anyway, I think it's safe to say that Palin is libertarian-ish from a mainstream perspective. Meanwhile, the Republicans are struggling to stay conservative--and yet sell themselves as something other than what they've been in the past. I think a lot of them are starting to think that the "libertarian" label looks like a good escape hatch--especially since so few people in the mainstream really understand what it means.

    We don't control the language--if enough Republicans start to describe themselves as libertarian, people in the mainstream will start to think we're one of them when we tell people we're libertarian.

    That's okay. We'll just have to start calling ourselves something else.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I'm still partial to "capitalist", but I guess that's got its own baggage with a lot of people.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "individualist" might be a good substitute.

    At any rate, if enough Republicans start to call themselves libertarian (as if that were some kind "Republican lite", we'll have to start calling ourselves something else...

    AND it will give us a great opportunity--for a while--to really hammer those Republicans who call themselves libertarian.

    That label may help them with those swing voters out there who don't really know what the term means, but all of a sudden, those Republicans are going to open themselves up to a whole world of criticism from real libertarians--who have a really big voice online.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Ugh no. I am not going to be chased from label to label by these idiots.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Same. I still want liberal back.

  • Ken Shultz||

    That's what I mean.

    Call yourself a liberal, and who these days thinks what you want them to think?

    Call yourself a "classical liberal", and most people think you're using classical as in quintessential. ...like you're a real liberal--not one of those phony liberals like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

    They think you really want to do what they only promise to do.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    They had it coming! Illegal immigrants all of them!

  • Ken Shultz||

    Like I said, we may not get to pick.

    We can denounce them as frauds, but if they want to call themselves libertarian, it's not like we can sue them for copyright infringement.

    Anyway, my loyalty isn't to any particular label. It's to individual liberty. The statists' shit by any other name still smells the same. ...even if they start calling themselves the same name I've been calling myself for decades.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Your attempts at 'clever manoeuvring' will be wasted effort Ken.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Clever maneuvering?

    I was talking about criticizing them for being phony libertarians.

  • ||

    Breaking news. Snowden just officially charged with espionage.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Let the demonization begin.

  • ||

    Prospective New Commenter: Ok, let's dip our toes into the water. Oh this thread has a lot of comments, I bet there's some nice, lively debate in there about issues of substance. Let's take a look now.... MY EYES, MY EYES, DEAR LORD WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN!!!...........
    *expires*

  • Irish||

    Irish| 6.21.13 @ 5:15PM

    Get ready for another 200 comment pissing contest. I am so psyched.

    Honestly, what would we do without the vile horror visited upon us by Sarah Palin threads?

    All is proceeding as I have foreseen.

  • Joe Durnavich||

    I literally fell off the couch during her 2008 VP nomination speech, when Governor Palin mentioned running a surplus in Alaska. I never thought I would ever hear a politician use the word "surplus" unless it was in regards to government cheese. Why is it so hard for other governors to govern? Doesn't Palin at least represent the baseline for what we want from a government executive or legislator?

    Alaska vs. California - Glenn Beck - Governor Sarah Palin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hsMIuOoZkY

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    AK is weird. It is mostly funded by oil taxes, and Palin lucked into a situation where oil prices were at record highs and where there was tremendous expansion in AK. While I do think she was fairly reserved considering the amount of money her government was swimming in, "fairly reserved" in government parlance still translates to "spending just above drunken sailor" levels, unfortunately.

    Still, her administration did start cutting costs when the price of oil went down, making it more reality-driven than 99% of administrations. It would have been interesting to see what she would have done had she had more traditional revenue sources and less of an easy time of it in the beginning of her term.

  • Jayburd||

    Lots of rinos and lots of low info voters up here.

  • Skip||

    Nick, if you post that stupid picture of Palin again, I'm going to uhh... take this swizzle-stick, and uhh... I'll be shoving that right up your pee-hole.

  • mahamison||

    The Tea Party movement would have to be able to merge its different organizations and thru it, its different beliefs and idiosyncracies into a single entity which would be able to accomodate the most popular beliefs of the group such as make the federal government as lean as possible, take care of the trillion dollar deficit that is staring us in the face ( the 2 basic beliefs of the TP), capable of going head to head with either the Dems or the Repubs and other popular beliefs such as Sarah Palins' Platforms:

    1.fighting the legal corruption (or as Sarah said nicely, crony capitalism)

    2. An end to expanding the federal government via a respect for the Tenth Amendment

    3.Repealing Obamacare

    4. No more runaway debt. This necessitates prioritizing and cutting spending.

    5. Energy independence, an “all of the above energy policy.” She distilled it down to this: “America’s economic revival starts with America’s energy revival.”

    6. Making America the most attractive country to do business. Included in this is eliminating all federal corporate taxes, which frees up job-creators but requires that they “stand or fall on [their] own.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Or perhaps you are just jealous because she's cuter in a black leather jacket?

  • Azathoth!!||

    Nick, don't you ever get tired of having your ass handed to you?

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Progressive Puritans: From e-cigs to sex classifieds, the once transgressive left wants to criminalize fun.
  • Port Authoritarians: Chris Christie’s Bridgegate scandal
  • The Menace of Secret Government: Obama’s proposed intelligence reforms don’t safeguard civil liberties

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement