Michigan Mayor Who Shut Kid's Hot Dog Stand Is Sad Because the Media Are Mean to Him

Kurt Dykstra, the mayor of Holland, Michigan, is sad. The media, including "opinion-based sites like The Blaze, owned by Glenn Beck, and Reason.com, owned by the libertarian Reason Foundation," have depicted him as a bad guy, just because he shut down the hot dog stand of a 13-year-old kid who was trying to make money to keep his family from becoming homeless. “People have said some colorful things about my character, or lack thereof.”

“It’s certainly a story that, at first blush, seems tailor-made for this kind of treatment,” he said.

Ya think? Anyway, here's the mayor's perspective, as explained by Michigan news site MLive:

The problem is, that’s only one side of the story. From the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance dates back decades and was drafted at the behest of downtown businesses that pay additional assessments to cover the cost of free parking downtown, and other improvements, like heated sidewalks courtesy of Holland's winter "snowmelt" system.

Yep, too bad no one has really let the city tell its side of the story. Oh wait, I think I remember reading something about that at Reason.com, owned by the libertarian Reason Foundation. In fact, it was an excerpt from an email from a city official defending their actions, quoted it at length. Let's read it again:

The downtown business owners annually pay substantial assessments (often reaching into the thousands of dollars) for improvement and maintenance of the free parking lots, amenities and events, and “snowmelt” to keep the downtown alive and well – and these assessments are on top of their regular property taxes.

With that in mind, it is understandable that these businesses, historically at least, have been reluctant to allow mobile vendors into the downtown area to benefit from the environment the brick and mortar businesses have created, compete with them for customers, but not contribute to the substantial capital and operational costs of the downtown. 

Again, hearing this side of the story doesn't make the behavior of Holland's mayor excusable. If anything, it makes the whole thing more shocking: The city has repeatedly insisted that its behavior is justifiable because they are providing protection to the people and businesses who pay more in taxes. Meanwhile, Nathan Duszynski is out of work and out of his house.

Meanwhile, there's a new video from the Mackinac Center, which has been following the case closely:

You can help Nathan out by going here.

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  • sarcasmic||

    firsteen!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The problem is, that’s only one side of the story. From the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance dates back decades and was drafted at the behest of downtown businesses...

    No problem with that, now is there?

    Besides, is not the owner of the parking lot that gave him approval one of those downtown businesses?

  • R C Dean||

    “People have said some colorful things about my character, or lack thereof.”

    If by "character" he means "sexual habits", he has us pegged (so to speak).

  • Brett L||

    Sounds like he'd rather be on the other end of the pegging to me.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    I have heard it said by some people that Kurt Dykstra likes to be pegged.

  • mr simple||

    Me too. That's 3 sources now, which I believe makes it common knowledge.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    There are persistent rumors that mayor Kurt Dykstra frequents male transvestite prostitutes.

    While I have no reason to believe that Mayor Kurt Dykstra frequents male transvestite prostitutes I do believe that it is up to him to prove that he does not frequent male transvestite prostitutes.

    Failure to do so on his part is creating a perception of impropriety on his part.

  • WWNGD?||

    Ahhh so he was confused by the term "Hot dog stand"

  • Restoras||

    Really? I've heard from reliable sources that this guy is a ravenous fornicator of sheep.

  • Proprietist||

    Those poor sheep...

  • Joe R.||

    If the mayor gets any more upset, he might start hanging around the comments section saying he might as well vote for Obama.

  • Mike M.||

    He's not by any chance related to Lenny Dykstra, is he?

  • Restoras||

    Doubtful. Mayor Dykstra has an emminently punchable face, whereas Lenny has a faced that has been punched over and over again. I am also willing to bet that Mayor Dykstra would crumble in fear at the presence of any fist, whereas Lenny would likely welcome fisticuffs of any nature.

  • Brett L||

    With that in mind, it is understandable that these businesses, historically at least, have been reluctant to allow mobile vendors into the downtown area to benefit from the environment the brick and mortar businesses have created, compete with them for customers, but not contribute to the substantial capital and operational costs of the downtown.

    What? Dinosaurs hate change and are using the government to excuse and protect their ossified business model from competition? When did this start happening?

  • wareagle||

    I think we're missing the point - now that the youth and his family are homeless, the wonder of the nanny state can spring into full action. Look, any family depending on a kid for its survival is a family too stupid to be given a chance at self-sustenance. No, the boy's hot dog stand was clearly a cry for help, for the help that only mother govt can provide. Anyone criticizing the mayor hates children. And probably kills puppies, too.

  • Brett L||

    When did the cops start criticizing the mayor?

  • wareagle||

    when their hot dog stand - and favorite new potential shakedown target - was shuttered.

  • ||

    Poor baby. Maybe he shouldn't have gone into politics in the first place.

  • Hugh Akston||

    And just how else is he supposed to make a decent living without contributing one goddamn thing to society? Hm?????

  • Whiterun Guard||

    He could write for Reason!

    OH SNAP!

  • Mr. FIFY||

    What a fuckin' pussy.

    I wonder if he's a Democrat.

  • sarcasmic||

    nope

  • o3||

    in holland?

    not a hot dog's chance in hell

  • R C Dean||

    Republican.

    Still a fuckin' pussy.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    There was a fifty-fifty chance he was either, and being either is just as likely to result in the actions this pussy perpetrated.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Since this was anti-entrepreneur in nature, I naturally assumed Hizzoner was Team Blue. They hate small businesses and working-class people - unless they are union and solid Democrat in nature.

  • sarcasmic||

    On the other hand you could look at it not as anti-entrepreneur, but as protecting established business, which is a Team Red family value.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    That's true, too. Maybe Hizzoner is a miniature version of Mayor Bloomberg?

  • mr simple||

    But Bloomberg is independent; he fucks everyone equally.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Which makes him the perfect Red/Blue fusionist mutant, mr simple.

  • R C Dean||

    Its all TEAM BE RULED, anyway.

  • Hyperion||

    Team Blue don't got nothin on Team Red when it comes to some good ol cronyism.

  • wef||

    The city has repeatedly insisted that its behavior is justifiable because they are providing protection to the people and businesses who pay more in taxes.

    Reserving to themselves the supposed legitimate monopoly over the use of violence, the thugs innocently assert the goodness of their protection racket. They cannot understand how some people can be so unreasonable.

  • Brutus||

    I wonder what the additional marginal cost of keeping up the infrastructure, removing snow and protecting the hot dog stand poses to the City of Holland, especially since the store where the kid set up is already paying those fees.

  • ||

    Waaaaaa! All I wanted to do was protect my cronies and get re-elected! And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for this meddling kid and his hot dogs.

  • ||

  • John C. Randolph||

    Yeah, my heart fucking bleeds for a thug who gets called a thug.

    Customers aren't property, and any restaurant that can't compete with a hot dog stand shouldn't even be in business. Fuck Kurt Dykstra, and fuck any business that uses the government to eliminate their competition.

    -jcr

  • Sheldon J. Plankton||

    ...any restaurant that can't compete with a hot dog stand shouldn't even be in business.....

    And who exactly is the kid competing with? The BM hot dog shop? "You know what honey? I was in the mood to buy a diamond ring but screw it. Let's get a hot dog and go home."

  • Marshall Gill||

    If only this would actually work.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "The law dates back several decades or more, said Meyer, and was drafted at the behest of downtown businesses who pay additional assessments to cover the cost of free parking downtown, and other improvements like heated sidewalks.
    'They say (food wagons) are an unfair advantage,' said Meyer, because they do not have the same taxes and fixed overhead costs as the brick-and-mortar establishments. There are a couple other places downtown that sell hot dogs."

    http://www.mlive.com/business/.....hot_d.html

  • Bee Tagger||

    IF I was his speechwriter:

    "This is Holland, Michigan not Michigan, Holland, people. How long until the hot dog stands turn into hot doobie stands? We need laws to keep our community safe!"

  • Whiterun Guard||

    That's awesome. When I am mayor of Holland, you will be my speechwriter.

  • Fluffy||

    I would note that his concern for the downtown property owners apparently does not extend to the property owner who gave the kid permission to park his hot dog cart there.

    Because fuck that property owner, right?

  • mr simple||

    They probably don't have the proper permits for food sales. That would require some more forms, a couple trips to various city offices, a permit fee, an inspection fee, licensing fee, an extra penaltax, and whatever else they can squeeze out. Do you want the poor city officials, inspectors, licensing board, and their drones to starve?

  • ||

    WE'RE ALL STARVING LICENSING COMMISSIONERS NOW.

  • sarcasmic||

    Do you want the poor city officials, inspectors, licensing board, and their drones to starve?

    No. I just want them and their families to die in a fire. With full bellies.

  • ||

    So he thinks he did nothing wrong. Hilarious.

  • sarcasmic||

    See here! That punk-ass kid could have put all kinds of people out of work if his little hot dog stand stole customers away from established businesses.
    What the fuck? You want these cooks and waiters to be in the unemployment lines?
    You heartless fucking bastard! What kind of a monster are you?
    Besides, do you really expect some teenager to follow the health code rules?
    So not only do you want to put people out of work, you want people to get sick as well!
    Fuck you, Warty! Fuck you!

  • Hugh Akston||

    Procedures were followed. The lawr was upheld. Nobody is at fault for this incident.

  • ||

    Silly libertardians111!! Dont'cha know the Revolution was fought so that we could have government officials engage in rabid cronyism and ruin kids' food stalls?

    What a cadre of malignant cunts. Fuck them with a barbed club.

  • mr simple||

    Is there a band called Malignant Cunts? Because there should be.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Warm-up band for Pussy Riot, maybe?

  • wareagle||

    do Butthole Surfers comes back to close the show, or are they better suited to opening it? Vexing questions. Plus, I get a chance to use 'vexing'.

  • SugarFree||

  • Zeb||

    It's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't done.

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    So - you clicked on the link?

  • Zeb||

    No, just a Butthole Surfers fan.

  • ||

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GOR5gvQwDI

    That might be them, frontlined by a younger Kurt Dykstra, whining about shit.

  • Sheldon J. Plankton||

    The guy can't possibly understand how stupid he looks, can he? He really needs to just shut his mouth.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Whiney douchebag whines.

    How dare those outlanders criticise me?

  • R C Dean||

    I think you mean auslanders, nein?

    For the fascism.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Uitlanders. It is Holland, afterall.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    The mayor is just embarrassed because this kid can do something that he can't: create value.

  • Joe R.||

    That's probably the most biting (and accurate) insult so far, and it would fly right over that turd's head.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The downtown business owners annually pay substantial assessments (often reaching into the thousands of dollars) for improvement and maintenance of the free parking lots, amenities and events, and “snowmelt” to keep the downtown alive and well

    Without central planning, this place would be a ghost town!

  • ||

    Long live Grandfather Lenin, fuckers!

  • wareagle||

    seriously...kid acts like he built that hot dog cart or something.

  • ||

    It's one thing to recognize that a zoning ordinance's roots were blatant protectionism.

    It's another thing to defend it and/or to say "Sorry, the law is the law, and we're just all stuck doing nothing about it."

    I believe this makes Kurt Dykstra a Sheep Fu.....

  • ||

    It's another thing to defend it and/or to say "Sorry, the law is the law, and we're just all stuck doing nothing about it."

    Well as Dunphy would say, process is all that matters, not results. If you start worrying about results, you get...COMMUNISM!!!

    I believe this makes Kurt Dykstra a Sheep Fu.....

    He's skilled in martial arts combat with sheep?

  • Spoonman.||

    Aww, is the widdle pawasite sad?

  • Chloe||

    Aww, does the little baby need his blankie

  • ||

    I'm betting his blankie's taxpayer-financed.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    If you think this story is revolting, imagine it happening a million times, or so, over nation-wide.

    Once that happens, you can start to understand the current predicament we're in.

  • Aresen||

    Threadjack:

    Science Fiction Author Harry Harrison has died:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/st.....-obit.html

  • sarcasmic||

    Gotta love a bank robber who subscribes to the broken window fallacy.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    The Stainless Steel Rat for DNC Chair!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    “It’s certainly a story that, at first blush, seems tailor-made for this kind of treatment,” he said.

    I repent my ignorant kneejerk nihilism.

    Plainly, this

    is

    a

    top

    man.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Harry Harrison croaked?

    That sucks.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "The problem is, that’s only one side of the story. From the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance dates back decades and was drafted at the behest of downtown businesses that pay additional assessments to cover the cost of free parking downtown"

    Yeah, but it's a homeless kid with a hot dog stand. Surely, this is causing enough grief to make an exception and let him reap some benefits from the other businesses extra taxes.

  • R C Dean||

    From the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance dates back decades and was drafted at the behest of downtown businesses that pay additional assessments to cover the cost of free parking downtown bought and paid for, dammit!

  • The Hammer||

    The sad thing is that about half the comments support the mayor unquestioningly. Because the alternative is apparently CHAOS!!!!!

  • Raston Bot||

    Apparently every square inch of Holland, MI outside of that special business tax zone is an AIDS-infested shithole of mud roads populated entirely by thieves, murderers, and rapists. At least that's what I gather from those comments supporting Dykstra's position.

    I'd say the Mayor was doing that kid a favor redirecting his entrepreneurial spirit away from that cesspool and into more fertile, business-friendly towns.

  • ||

    Apparently every square inch of Holland, MI outside of that special business tax zone is an AIDS-infested shithole of mud roads populated entirely by thieves, murderers, and rapists.

    Without free parking and heated sidewalks.

  • Juice||

    Donated $10. I won't miss it, but maybe they can use it.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Dykstra is a goddamn liar.

    The kid set up on the property of a sporting goods store if I remember correctly, a sporting goods store that is paying taxes just like the downtown restaurants.

    If the kid set up in the public way, Dykstra "might" have a point. But the kid set up on private property that was already zoned commercial.

    The worst part is the kid TRIED following the rules and was told by the rule enforcers that he DID follow the rules properly.

    Then the rule enforcers decided to change their mind because... well we can only speculate about the corruption behind the change of mind, but the fact is Dykstra is lying about it.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "The law Duszynski ran afoul of says mobile food vendors have to be located adjacent to, and be a part of an existing business that already has a food service license, said Phil Meyer, director of community and neighborhood services."

    "Duszynski and his parents said they went into the city clerk’s office recently to inquire about permitting and were pointed to the Ottawa County Health Department, which took over permitting for restaurants and food vendors in the area this spring.
    The family left believing they had all their bases covered. They were never told about the downtown Commercial-3, or C-3 zoning at the heart of the issue, they said."

  • CampingInYourPark||

    They got insurance and set up a DBA. They got a permit from the county and, because Douglas Johnson is a lawyer, were confident that Duszynski’s age would not surface as an issue because the law allows children to work for a family business.
    Meyer and Dykstra said the clerk they spoke to at City Hall realized after they left that the zoning might be a problem, but did not have a direct phone number. Instead, she left a message for them at Reliable Sports.
    “Apparently, that message either never got conveyed or was ignored,” said Meyer.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Apparently the kid's step-father is not so much a lawyer

    "Stepfather of would-be teen hot dog vendor jailed"

    "His wife, Lynette Johnson said the charge is for practicing law without a license and stems from Douglas Johnson’s work as a paralegal."

    http://www.hollandsentinel.com.....her-jailed

  • Hugh Akston||

    *gasp* You mean the stepfather is also working without permission from his social betters? Now we can see where the kid learned his anarchistic ways.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "You mean the stepfather is also working without permission from his social betters?"

    Yes, Dr. Akston

  • sarcasmic||

    "This guy and his punk-ass stepson are making us look bad. Investigate him. I'm sure you'll find something. Three felonies a day and all that."

  • ||

    Three? Hah! Cut Amateur Hour short, bro, and follow us into the land of triple-buttfuckery: Local, state, and federal. I'm sure we can find at least three felonies for the guy on each of the three levels of government!

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "A third website says Douglas Johnson will run for governor in 2014. Douglas Johnson ran for governor in 2008, Lynette Johnson said, but didn’t finish his campaign because of his then-wife’s medical trouble. She also said that website was not supposed to be up yet."

  • CampingInYourPark||

  • ||

    I'm really disappointed that none of the autistic programmers here have made a Dijkstra's algorithm joke yet. Fuck you, nerds.

  • Brett L||

    I'm not autistic, I just don't talk to people I don't like, which is everyone.

  • ||

    Presactly.

  • Paul.||

    Aren't many of those programmers left. They're all HTML Python Script kiddies earning $85k a year creating ActiveX components for e-Commerce sites.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Because the alternative is apparently CHAOS!!!!!

    Some moron was here at HnR claiming this kid would be thin edge of the wedge.

    "Sure it's just one cute kid today, but next week the sidewalks will be choked with FIVE HUNDRED HOT DOG CARTS!"

    Oh, the humanity!

  • ||

    And why the fuck would that even be an issue? And why would it happen in the first place?

    Do these livid retards even live in the real fucking world, or what?

  • R C Dean||

    Sounds like Tulpa?

  • Paul.||

    Sounds like Somalia!

  • Fluffy||

    So what if it did happen?

    If 500 vendors with 500 carts descended on his downtown, all of a sudden he'd have himself an agora, and it would be the most happening spot in the state. He'd need to use TAP financing to build parking garages for the people driving in from all over his part of the state.

  • ||

    NYC passed some harsh legislation back around the turn of the century because supposedly all the cart vendors were cluttering the place up too much.

    The voters supported it, but they were the same voters patronizing these places every day and giving them money. Even back then, before the New Deal, people were already begging the gov't to prevent them from doing something they felt helplessly compelled to do (buy food from a stand).

  • ||

    In other words, mental retardation has been an issue throughout human history.

  • Paul.||

    Typical bully. Beats up on someone and then when he gets popped in the mouth, cries about how he has been attacked.

    For your viewing pleasure:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEqniEvNcnk

  • Caleb Turberville||

    I love it when the bully's henchmen tries to intimidate the fat kid, but after the body-slamming, he doesn't want to have anything to do with him.

    If you ask me, the bully needs better henchmen on the payroll.

  • Proprietist||

    "You don't have to say anything. I know how it is. I'm no longer the cool kid. Now you all think I'm a fahahahahahag." [begins to wail] "My school life is over 'cause now all the guys don't think I'm coooohoohoohoohoohooooool." [wails some more]

  • wareagle||

    if govt is not actively helping people achieve homelessness, how else will the nanny state generate its own demand. You folks act like all homeless people create themselves. There are bennies to be doled out and none of that can happen if this kid's enterprise helps the family keep a roof over its head.

  • ||

    OT: http://reason.com/24-7/2012/08.....ar#comment

    The statists have officially graduated to Full Retard Level X-treme HURRRRRR. Kill them WITH FIRE.

  • Brett L||

    You're the one guy using 24/7, huh?

  • ||

    I'm just cooler than you, foo'. Don't hate on me just 'cause I'm a badass like that.

  • ||

    TASTEEOS

  • BakedPenguin||

    But the law banning heroin not be branded has done so much for stopping its use!

  • ||

    Well, duh! Why do libertarians hate small children? It's all for the children, after all!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Me fail English? That's unpossible!

  • ||

    I make hot noodle soup while you wait, Mista American?

  • mr simple||

    Proof:The EU will publish a draft revision to its 2001 Tobacco Products Directive in the fall, and may introduce more stringent rules on packaging as well as extend legislation to newer tobacco products such as electronic cigarettes.

    Words fail.

  • ||

    It's the European Union, Simple. Take the US federal government, magnify the retardation and delusional idiocy tenfold, and you've got a pretty good idea of what those morons spend their days doing.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Yeah, instead of making the taxpayers pay to save failed companies, they make the German taxpayers pay to save failed nations.

  • ||

    Just wait, however, until we're taxed to shit to bail out California, man! That'll be truly awesome awesomeness!

  • Restoras||

    China will be bailing out CA, not us.

  • ||

    Oh, you'll bail. Don't think you won't bail!

  • LTC(ret) John||

    I'm looking for a bucket as we speak...er, type.

  • Killazontherun||

    The hatred and destructive actions they commit on the tobacco industry is just a proxy for everything the socialist want to do to every other industry and the free market but can't get away with in the open just yet.

  • ||

    Yeah. The tobacco companies are unpopular anyway because they murder black kids, or something, so let's fuck them in the ass, and when the time's right, we'll fuck everybody else in the ass, too.

    /Eurocrat.

  • ||

    From the kids website:
    IMPORTANT UPDATE:

    I was just contacted by the Glen Beck Show and will be going to Dallas this week to be on his program to discuss not only the problems I have had with my business, but the rules regulations that affect people across our great Country.

    ZOMG! Holy mustard and onions! That's is amazing. I am astounded to learn Glen Beck still has a program.

  • wareagle||

    still big on radio, though it can be very difficult to listen to - it's like an FM morning show where non-clever folks try to be funny. Plus there is an internet tv program. I sorta miss the Fox show with the chalkboards.

  • Chloe||

    I think he still uses the chalkboards on the internet show.

  • Restoras||

    What about on the radio show?

  • ||

    Hey, I'm in Dallas. Maybe I can arrange to meet this kid and then punch him in the face. I'll be on TV!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    With that in mind, it is understandable that these businesses, historically at least, have been reluctant to allow mobile vendors into the downtown area to benefit from the environment the brick and mortar businesses have created, compete with them for customers, but not contribute to the substantial capital and operational costs of the downtown.

    Why not allow the mobile vendors to contribute the capital and operational costs of downtown? Perhaps with a fee? Or does that make too much sense?

  • R C Dean||

    Based on square footage, it would probably come to, say, $1.32/month.

    And since when is it up to the fucking businesses to "allow" anyone to do set up shop in their neighborhood?

  • ||

    Yeah, that one struck me as an awful idea, too. It's the benevolent government that should be deciding who sells and does what and where.

  • Hugh Akston||

    That way there'd be no conflict of interest!

  • ||

    You know that business environment downtown? You didn't create that. Someone else did.

  • ||

    Someone else didn't create that. Obama did. He did that.

    Heil Obama.

  • ||

    Are you sure? I thought it was AlGore

  • Paul.||

    And since when is it up to the fucking businesses to "allow" anyone to do set up shop in their neighborhood?

    The moment they paid their protection money is when...

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Yeah, if they were smart, they'd rent out their business space and all move out to the sidewalk with carts where shit is free.

  • ||

    I like the spineless felating fucks who commented and whined "OMG if we let this kid go then...then.... then holy fuck civilization will collapse and my donations to the mayor's re-election campain would be for naught." I don't kow who disgust me more, the asshole mayor or the cocksuckers eager to swallow the law's cum.

  • sarcasmic||

    I wonder if the city refunded the useless licenses and fees that the poor kid had to get before finally being told that he had to be attached or adjacent to an existing licensed food establishment?

    Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!

    Thank you. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the waitress.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    The city doesn't issue the licenses. It's handled by the county and they don't check city zoning laws.

  • Hyperion||

    From the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance dates back decades

    Ya know, maybe it's just my experience, and someone please disagree with me if their own experience has been much different. But when I was growing up, I don't ever remember any crap like this happening, ever. I remember food vendor carts on lots of corners in neighborhoods I lived in. I remember lots of lemonade stands set up by kids, and I took part in those myself. I don't ever remember anyone getting harassed by cops for that type of activity, ever, let alone being shut down or fined. This crap is purely another unwanted side effect of government grown too big, too arrogant, too crony, and totally out of control.

  • ||

    No, you're correct. This shit has grown exponentially in tandem with the exponential growth of government over the last 20 years or so.

    But this is what government does. Its growth curve is, literally, exponential. It took 200 years for it to even get very big, but once it does, its growth starts to go up fantastically as it enables itself.

    This is why, fundamentally, government is wrong. It can't be kept small. I will always grow too big given time. Minarchists are deluding themselves, because what we have is what you will always get. Sure, the people at the beginning get a great deal, but what they leave for their descendants is what we are all living with now.

  • sarcasmic||

    How do you resolve the fact that groups of people will compete for the monopoly on violence, with the winner becoming government?
    There will always be government.
    You're delusional if you think anarchy can exist.

  • ||

    We always live in anarchy. We have decided to live by certain rules; at any time you can violate those rules and attempt to avoid the retaliation from the other people in this agreement. How is this different from "anarchy" where they have decided on different rules?

    We are all anarchists. Every one of us decides, every day, which rules we will follow and which we will break. If you don't realize that, you're just another chump who has been brainwashed into buying into the existing system.

  • ||

    I'm not sure calling people "chumps" is the best way to get your message across.

    You should call them "shit-eating diseased cunts" instead. Much more impactful.

  • Killazontherun||

    'Chump' just implies that he lead a law abiding life of politician obeyance for the nookie.

  • ||

    I save shit-eating diseased cunt for you, JJ.

  • ||

    ...but what they leave for their descendants is what we are all living with now.

    A world-class standard of living better than at any other time in history and a plethora of technological marvels?

    I keed, I keed!

  • Hyperion||

    Yes, we have that now, but it all started with limited government. We are over the hump now and it is a rapid downwards spiral into economic collapse, mediocrity, totalitarianism, then the final crash at the bottom, and back to chaos and anarchy.

  • sarcasmic||

    It's the cycle of history.
    Great civilizations rise only to be looted and destroyed by the parasite called government.

  • ||

    All I know is, Paul Ryan is so bad, I'm going to vote for Obama.

  • Hyperion||

    But surely you must jest, oh bearded one.

  • Hyperion||

    Must we summon Red Tony?

  • Restoras||

    Well, to be fair, he is pretty awful.

  • Hyperion||

    You are right. Have you noticed how lately it is just like a mad and frantic overdrive rush of the government plunging over the abyss into total insanity? I don't know how else to describe it, but it's madness.

  • sarcasmic||

    When the unintended consequences of shitty rules result in more shitty rules, as opposed to repeal, the growth of these rules is indeed exponential.

  • robc||

    Sure, the people at the beginning get a great deal, but what they leave for their descendants is what we are all living with now.

    Hence the Jeffersonian suggestion to go back to the beginning every few generations.

    Since we didnt do it this time, next time we need to build a time limit into the constitution.

    Year of jubilee every 50 years and reboot.

  • ||

    We still have lemonade stands and vendors and shit. But we're in neo-Confederate flyover oblivion, you see. We're not enlightened like Sacramento or Kurt Dickstroke.

  • Hyperion||

    You haven't evolved yet, but surely you will see the light if only you touch the robes of the anointed one.

  • Christina||

    This whole mobile food vendor controversy is amazingly absurd. If brick-and-morter restaurants are so worried about mobile vendors taking their business they could always, oh I don't know, get their own food trucks.

  • Christina||

    Of course, why compete when you can just get your friend the mayor to crush the competition?

  • Chloe||

    Seriously Christina, it is so much easier to be a crony than actually be innovative.

  • Christina||

    TRUTH! I wonder if rent-seeking is taught in business schools. I would think it comes naturally, but you never know with those B-school kids. They're pretty stupid.

  • ||

    "First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the Teamsters would like to have a little chat with you, and that'll cost you. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boy scouts."

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    Ah, one of my favorite parts of that movie.

  • Hyperion||

    Or maybe something totally revolutionary, like offering services and an atmosphere that the food carts can't compete with for someone not looking for something quick and cheap? But, cronyism teaches envy, greed, and spitefulness, not thinking, entrepreneurial spirit, and innovation.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    What?... Be a feasible alternative to a hotdog out on the street? What kind of mad geniuses do you think these Hollanders are?!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    This is where you end up if you let people whine about "Do-nothing government".

    Go ahead and Do Nothing. Please.

    NOTHING, I tell you.

  • ||

    If the government stopped enforcing food vendor licensing laws, how long do you think it would take for the US to turn into a cratered ruin? A week? Two weeks?!

  • sarcasmic||

    The hospitals wouldn't be able to handle the food born illnesses resulting from vendors operating without licenses to the point where the bodies would be stacked in the parking lot like hardwood.

    The pandemic would kill at least ten percent of the country's population, maybe more.

    Vendor licensing laws what stand between food safety and carnage on a scale not seen since the Black Death.

  • ||

    28 Days Later is actually a showcase of what happens when little brats are allowed to operate unlicensed lemonade and hot dog stands.

    HELP US, GOVERNMENT! YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!

  • ||

    Well, OF COURSE that would happen. I mean, even if everyone who eats there gets sick you're still going to eat there. You HAVE to because the advertising made you.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    M S, Indeed - it appears only one man can save us... I SUMMON MAYOR BLOOMBERG from the vasty deep!

  • Hyperion||

    Damn. After the 45 million that died in the streets last year from no health insurance, there should be lots of empty space left in the country for us soulless heathens to continue on with our unabated hedonism. I wonder if I can use some of those bodies to fertilize my mater plants? Is it best to grind up the bones first, or just dig a big hole downwind?

  • Christina||

    You know this doesn't even begin to tackle the widespread problem of people preparing their own food in their own kitchens without proper government oversight. Think of all the kids eating PBandJs made by people without food safety certifications! I'm surprised the human race hasn't died out completely.

  • Hyperion||

    Life didn't exist before government. In the beginning God said 'Let me create government and then let every creature be totally dependent upon it'

  • sarcasmic||

    What are you talking about?

    God didn't create government.

    Government is God!

  • Hyperion||

    They would PUT US BACK IN CHAINS! IN CHAINS I TELL YOU!!!

  • Killazontherun||

    Wait. Before I can tell you how I feel about that, will Romney/Ryan reinstate the one drop rule?

  • Hyperion||

    I just need to know how many childins died in the sweat shops making the 3 gallons of QT sunless tanning lotion this guy rubs himself down with daily?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    You're right, Res. I think I'll go steal a shopping cart from Albertson's this afternoon so I'll have some way move all my worldly possessions around once the Apocalypse has hit full force. I'll need some lead time to put the big knobbly off road tires and a motor on it.

  • ||

    You can use solar panels to power you cart.

    Except Solyndra's out of business and there'll be a nuclear winter to blot out the Sun.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    If you feel the need, you can use the port-a-john I just put on the sidewalk in front of his house.

  • Hyperion||

    Someone from my generation would have put 2 port-a-johns in front of his house, because we're better than you in case you haven't heard about that yet. In fact, we're the greatest generation to ever live and the smartest, and everything.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "In fact, we're the greatest generation to ever live and the smartest, and everything."

    LMFAO, so true

  • ||

    I want to trade in my sport bike for a bagger for just that reason.

    But then, it would have a shitty Harley air-cooled engine, and I'd rather not break down in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Decisions decisions.

  • ||

    Get a Beemer. The boxers are mechanically bulletproof and the bags are big enough to hold 2 or 3 minor miners.

  • Hyperion||

    You want to trade your bike for a tea party person?

  • ||

    Sure! Have you seen their average net income?

  • Hyperion||

    Well, being funded by them Koch brothers, I am sure they are loaded!

  • Ryan60657||

    If only the kid has slipped Mayor Dykstra a fat envelope of payola, like the other business owners inevitably have done already, he would have his license and be selling hot dogs right now.

  • Killazontherun||

    Story is illustrative of why public property fails in practice. Ideally, we all pay into the system to the best of our abilities and have equal claims to the property deemed to belong to all of us. That conflicts with an another ideal, those that most use a resource or benefit from it should pay more for it. These two conflicting ideals cannot be settled. Once there exist a person who is paying directly more for the resource, then you have a person with an unequal claim to that resource, and a claim is pretty much the same thing as ownership.

    Those businesses own those 'public' streets due to their greater responsibility for their utility. For all intensive porpoises the mayor and police are a private army that is acting in the interest of those property owners though their salary is paid by everyone else. That is not an aberration but simply how public property has to be operationally structured to actually function.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Killazontherum,

    Those businesses own those 'public' streets due to their greater responsibility for their utility. For all [intents and purposes] the mayor and police are a private army that is acting in the interest of those property owners though their salary is paid by everyone else.

    They're actually staking a claim on us customers and not really the streets, K. For all intents and purposes, of course.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "They're actually staking a claim on us customers and not really the streets"

    If downtown was a shithole that nobody wanted to visit then there would be no customers to stake a claim to.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: CampingInYourPark,

    If downtown was a shithole that nobody wanted to visit then there would be no customers to stake a claim to.

    Possible, but the customers are still free-willed individuals who can decide to buy or not buy from those brick-and-mortar businesses, regardless of how many hotdog or taco stands lay around. Unless they can claim they own the place (which can be easily determined) then the space still belongs to the public for better or worse, and the bottom line is that the kid's parents helped pay for part of those streets with their taxes.

    If the city was so concerned about establishing true ownership, then the city should stop levying taxes from families like that kid's to pay for those streets. Either that, or let the kid have his hotdog stand.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "then the city should stop levying taxes from families like that kid's to pay for those streets. Either that, or let the kid have his hotdog stand."

    The city could stop levying extra fees on the businesses and stop providing the amenities to attract customers. If that produces the market incentive for businesses to relocate to a mall, for instance, I don't see how it helps any kid with a hot dog cart.

    There's a reason he has to sell it if he can't have it in this location. Because the people paying city for the extra goodies created an environment people want to be in.

    Again, they are paying more in taxes for having more than just a street in front of their stores.

    It sucks for the kid but I don't see how it's inherently unfair either.

  • Killazontherun||

    You understand that I made no error in either case, correct?

    They are making a claim on the street as to who has access to them to serve those customers. Serving the customers is the purpose of the claim and not the claim itself. You see, I was being careful and disciplined there as I always am in definitional evaluation, you were being a bit sloppy and confusing the matter.

    Replacing 'intents and purposes' with 'intensive porpoises' is an old joke. I used it because I hate the ugly sound 'intents and purposes' mashed together.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "You understand that I made no error in either case, correct?"

    Sure. There is a claim as to who can serve customers, codified in the law. If I want to open a business in Holland, I notice the city will give me some incentive to build it downtown provided I pay a little more than the kids with the hot dog carts. These incentives include, heated sidewalks, free parking, and a few kids with hot dog carts in the parking lot across from my Sonic.

    On second thought, I'll just take my chances next to the interstate.

  • Killazontherun||

    The above was in reply to OM's odd correction. Threading likely obscured who I responding to.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    yeah...excuse the misfire please

  • CampingInYourPark||

    And now the kid has free reign of downtown where hot dog cart utopia exists for everyone with a snowplow.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Killaz-on-the-run,

    They are making a claim on the street as to who has access to them to serve those customers.

    That is, assuming those customers only go there to buy. If the city/businesses really wanted to be sure that only paying patrons visited the streets, they would close them and check people at the entrance for intentions. Since they're not doing that - for obvious reasons - then the businesses cannot claim that their interest is in keeping the streets pristine, as those streets are still public property (as much as I hate using that term.)

    What they really want is to limit the choices of the people that travel down those streets, bottom line. The street thing is just an excuse.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "That is, assuming those customers only go there to buy. If the city/businesses really wanted to be sure that only paying patrons visited the streets, they would close them and check people at the entrance for intentions."

    Actually, there are 3 motives. One is to have businesses in the area and the second is to make the area attractive and convenient for customers. These things are not totally for the benefit of business, because the third motive is to produce revenue for the city.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Agree with this. The issue is most cities want a vibrant downtown business area. It attracts revenue into the city and expands the tax base in order to provide services for ex hot-dog cart owning homeless people. Would the kid be better off if these businesses had just opened in a mall somewhere out in the suburbs? Maybe so.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

  • Hyperion||

    I am totally afraid to click on that...

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Be not your eyes afraid - its funny and harmless.

  • Sevo||

    If one kid gets away with this, why, the next thing you know, there'd be a whole passel of kids learning that business is kinda fun!
    Can't have that.

  • Hyperion||

    Funny comparison, but back when I was in Jr. High, they had dress codes. I know, I am ancient. But one day the principal calls me in and tells me to get a hair cut. I boldly asked why, and the answer was: Because we have to have rules and regulations. What a fucktard.

  • Killazontherun||

    Things I wore to school in the 80's.

    Jack Danial's T's
    Marijuana emblem T's
    Confederate flag with L. Skynyrd Ts
    Iron Maiden Satanic imagery laden T's

    Good fucking times indeed.

  • Killazontherun||

    Oh yeah, and one that said, 'i might not go down in history but I'll go down on your little sister.'

    The only time I was ever made to change my clothes is when I wore a tux under vest with no shirt beneath it. I thought it looked cool when Jeff Beck did it, so I imitated.

  • Hyperion||

    Marijuana emblem - check
    Lynyrd Skynyrd with rebel flag - check

    That was in high school though, and in the late 70s, would never have gotten away with that in the Jr. High.

    Today, those things just get you on DHS list.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Hyperion,

    That was in high school though, and in the late 70s, would never have gotten away with that in the Jr. High.

    Shit, you're older than me. I was in 6th grade back in 79.

  • Hyperion||

    That's right. I am one of the ancient ones, but we were tough. We walked 10 miles to school everyday, barefoot, in the snow, up hill both ways.

  • ||

    While today's whippersnappers ride to school on their iPhones... or so I've heard.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Oh yeah, I was in 8th grade in 1979-1980.

    /fossil

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Killazontherum,

    For all intensive porpoises

    Those porpoises are not so much intensive as they are lecherous!

  • Hyperion||

    Fuck a you porpooisseeeeeeesss!!!

  • Killazontherun||

    I've never been certain what the difference is between dolphins and porpoises (don't tell me! my ignorance has been long invested) but I bet they both keep rape caves.

  • Hyperion||

    And fuck a you dolphiiiiiiiiiiiins!

  • LTC(ret) John||

    One had a movie - Day of the Dolphin. Flipper = Dolphin. They have an NFL team too. Clearly the Dolphin has more pull than the Porpoise.

    No word on rape caves, however.

  • Hyperion||

    Clearly the Dolphin has more pull than the Porpoise

    We'll see how true that is after the Japanese arrive..

  • The Late P Brooks||

    But one day the principal calls me in and tells me to get a hair cut. I boldly asked why, and the answer was:

    "Getcher goddam hair cut, hippy!" he explained.

  • Moogle||

    Oh, please... he's a sociopath like the rest of them. He's genetically and memetically incapable of sadness. He's just doing damage control to save his job.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Kurt Dykstra.

    Fuck off, slaver.

    Oooh, did I hurt your feelings, Mr. Mayor? I hope so.

  • Brutus||

    I think this is a propos here:

    "After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the government then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small, complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence: it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." - Tocqueville

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Oh yeah, I was in 8th grade in 1979-1980.

    I was already a college dropout in 1979. Pesky kids.

    Get off my lawn!

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    UPDATE: Holland, MI dickheads relent - let poor waif sell some dogs on the street.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/gran.....og_ve.html

  • Hyperion||

    Bwhahhahhhaaa. I bet right now they are sitting around pouting and going on about how the internet has went and ruined everything.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "Freedom! Horrible, horrible freedom!"

  • ||

    but how does the kid feel about gay marriage?

  • Nick M||

    Anyone else read the comments over on MLive? I supposed it was curiosity that drove me over there. I should know better than to go into general news site forums by now. I had set my expectations pretty low, but I was still disappointed after reading them.

    There were some people mentioning rent seeking, etc, but there was also:
    attacking the kid's parents for allegedly seeking attention
    appeal to authority
    appeal to tradition
    slippery slope -- hot dog vendor anarchy!!!
    identity based attacks -- e.g. Holland is all Republicans and I'm a democrat, so F you
    this story is a waste of time
    etc

  • Joe Emenaker||

    Oh, please...

    Talk about your double-edged sword... this is a case where the business owners *did* "build that". They pay extra assessments for free parking and other improvements in their business district, and they don't want some other business riding on their coat-tails and enjoying the improvements they paid for.

    Now, I get it. The kid has got a heart-rending story, and lots of people think the rules shouldn't apply to him. Okay, fine. Let's let him sell crack, then. He'll make a *lot* more money to pay for those medical bills that way. My point is, the rules don't apply just to those people who lack a sob story; they apply to everyone. If you want to get on someone's case, jump on the business owners who lean on the city to keep street vendors away from their businesses.

    And you're being a little disingenuous with calling the mayor "sad". It's a straw-man attempt at painting him as a softie who just can't figure out why we can't all get along. I didn't see him say he was sad. I also didn't see him say that he wasn't given a chance to tell his side (like you imply). What he *said* was that, on the surface, the story smacks of "big government stomping down the hard-working go-getter with a great cause", but that there's another aspect to the story... and then he described it. Big deal.

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