But Without Government, Who Would Steal Huge Amounts of Property and Ruin People's Lives for Absurd and Indefensible Reasons?

Sure, we'd still have some wretched villainy from the private sector, but it rarely has the resources or will to devote to life-destruction on the level of this story of the theft of Shannon County, Missouri's, Camp Zoe, as told by William Grigg:

Entrepreneur and musician James Tebeau, whose Camp Zoe concert venue was one of Shannon County, Missouri’s largest employers, has accepted a plea agreement in which he will forfeit his 350 acre property and serve a prison sentence for “maintaining a drug-involved premises.”

Tebeau played bass in an ensemble called the Schwag Band and hosted a number of concert events including the annual “Schwagstock” festival. The agreement stipulates that Tebeau neither participated in drug sales, nor did he profit from them. Yet he faces a prison term of two and a half years and the loss of his property.

According to the Feds, Tebeau’s crime was to permit the sale of marijuana, LDS and mushrooms, while instructing employees to evict people who sold heroin, cocaine, crack, meth, and nitrous oxide. However, the same can be said of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, which abetted the sale of many controlled substances for four years following an August 2006 arrest of two people at the camp for selling hallucinogenic mushrooms. Over that four-year period, informants employed by the State Police conducted hundreds of undercover purchases, including many of the hard drugs Tebeau was seeking to ban from his premises.

Why do we hire people to sell buy drugs to fuck up people's lives for selling drugs? It's the only way to do it, alas, since people involved in a mutually desired trade of drugs for money usually aren't going to turn themselves in....

Besides, it's all thoughtcrime anyway. Selling the right drugs with the right permission is cool, while using certain words marks one as guilty:

The “Justice” Department’s press release (which was reproduced nearly verbatim by the few media outlets that covered the story) made a point of noting that Tebeau “was aware that the term `schwag’ was a slang term for low-grade marijuana and he purposely adopted that name for his music festivals and band.” If this is evidence of evil intent, the Feds should begin criminal proceedings against the Doobie Brothers and the management of any venue where that classic rock band performs.

Be of warm heart, liberals, because it's true: it takes a village to raze a peaceful village:

At about 7:30 a.m. on November 1, 2010 – a few hours after the finale of the annual “Spookstock” music festival -- a multi-jurisdictional task forceinvaded Camp Zoe. According to one eyewitness, "Every letter of the alphabet was represented…. There were people from the DEA, the IRS, the Highway Patrol, from Homeland Security, the local police and country Sheriff's Office. There was a group from the Rolla Police Department, which is two counties away from here." 

One camp staffer was briefly stopped by police on nearby Highway 19 as he was driving his children to school. He was separated from his wife and children at the point of an M-16 rifle. The detainee was taken into the camp and briefly questioned before being released.

Camp Zoe was placed under lock-down while the raiders rummaged through every corner of the campground, intimidating staff and visitors and seizing personal items (including cash). As this was going on another federal contingent was dispatched to clean out the personal and business accounts of Jimmy Tebeau, the musician and entrepreneur who owns and operates the campground.

The Feds "just siphoned away all of his money, and then filed a civil asset forfeiture lawsuit seeking to seize his property," protests attorney Dan Viets, who has volunteered to represent Tebeau. "This would mean that he wouldn't have the money needed to fight the seizure in court." The Feds clearly sought to confiscate Camp Zoe from the beginning, and they took exceptional care to guarantee that Tebeau couldn't mount an effective defense of his property.

All's well that ends well: peaceful entrepreneur who enriched many lives through his hiring and the services he provided destitute and in jail, and the government--without whom we would have enjoyed none of this, at our expense--has a bunch more cash and land. They might need it to launch the next vital life-destroying assault on the innocent.

From a longer Grigg report on the Camp Zoe case:

"If they succeed in seizing Camp Zoe, we can expect the same tactics to be used against music venues nation-wide," Dan Viets told Pro Libertate. "This is a major test case that is being watched very carefully by people who hold music festivals and other large events, and who might find their property and profits subject to seizure without even being accused of a crime, let alone convicted of one."

Reason archives on asset forefeiture.

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  • NeonCat||

    I'm hoping with Romney's election LDS will no longer be a crime.

  • plu1959||

    Damn you to hell, NeonCat!

  • db||

    I heard Spock did a little too much of that in the '60s.

  • SKR||

    What? Selling mormons is disgusting. Those hippies were into some twisted shit.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    What? Selling mormons is disgusting. Those hippies were into some twisted shit.


    Case-in-point: Elizabeth Smart.

  • Coeus||

    It appears from testimony that Mitchell's stake president at the time tried to discuss the issues with him.

    Ok, mormons just got cooler. Any religion with a President of Steak is pretty cool.

  • fish||

    Thank god this menace has been show the proper path by a wise and benevolent government.

  • NeonCat||

    Good thing Burning Man is on Federal land, although part of me would love to see BLM offices raided for their part in the criminal conspiracy.

  • fish||

    T o n y how many people do you think the feds will "help" with the proceeds from this raid of holy purification?

  • WarrenT||

    The more people who rub up against government the more people who learn to hate it and the people in it.

    It is only a matter of time before the switch gets flipped and enough people realize that government is a net liability and withdraw their support or do choose a more active path.

  • ||

    sorry. i see this as classic reason myopia. you are extrapolating from yourself and mebbe your fellow travelers, to the mean.

    ime, the more people who rub up against govt, the more who tend to support it. they may not LOVE it, and they can certainly joke at its inefficiences, but in my area, we run 'citizen's academies' which are very popular and succesful way for average joes to attend a police academy of sort and interact with cops. the vast majority give the feedback as positive and say their respect for police increases after attending same. that's what THEIR surveys said.

    we also allow ridealongs, and have a vibrant reserve cop program

    i often recommend to people that are critical of cops, that they do a ridealong. ime, their opinion is usually changed for the better.

    i see your post as a classic example of reasonoid logic "i think this way, therefore others do"

    similar to how i have had to eviscerate claims, yet that are still made, at the level of public distrust, outrage, disrespect etc. of the police.... polling data shows that to be utter hogwash, but when you are a reasonoid and can completely surround yourself with likethinking fellow travelers, it's easily to delude yourself as to the state of reality.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Needz moar "You eee-diotz"!

  • Citizen Nothing||

    a vibrant reserve cop program


    This really made me laugh a lot, for some reason.
    Yes, ime (if I may borrow a term), those reserve "cops" are usually quite vibrant.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Or perhaps he meant "vibrative," you know, like Barney Fife.

  • Pip||

    "we also allow ridealongs, and have a vibrant reserve cop program"

    Next time beat them up, steal their property and shoot their dog before you have them fill out the survey, fuckwad pig.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    People who attend the 'citizen's academies' give positive feedback.

    Potemkin Village anyone?

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Dog owners, is my guess.

  • ||

    You know, no offense, but you rely an awful lot on "surveys" when making arguments. I'm not convinced that surveys for anything accurately reflect jack or shit, due to the problems of demographics and sampling bias, etc.

    Heck, those people probably wouldn't be attending your academy at all if they didn't already have a somewhat positive disposition towards LEOs.

  • RBS||

    Pretty much, why else would anyone willingly surround themselves with cops?

  • sarcasmic||

    the vast majority give the feedback as positive and say their respect for police increases after attending same.

    No shit. Do you think people who are fearful and distrustful of police are going to attend your 'citizen's academies'?

    Of fucking course you get positive feedback.

  • Pip||

    The overwhelming majority people in my neighborhood HATE cops. Some so much that they shoot and kill them.

    True story.

  • ||

    And I would include surveys pumping up things that I support in that, also. Surveys say a majority of people support gay marriage, but it fails in most state referendums. Surveys say that most people are OK with legalizing pot (even if only for medical), and yet progress is glacial, and the Feds still keep their boot on it.

    Basically: don't trust surveys. Stated v. revealed preferences, and all that.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    we run 'citizen's academies' which are very popular and succesful way for average joes to attend a police academy of sort and interact with cops. the vast majority give the feedback as positive and say their respect for police increases after attending same. that's what THEIR surveys said.

    IOW State propaganda still works.

    ime, the more people who rub up against govt, the more who tend to support it.

    I guess it depends on which side of the gun they're on when they rub government.

    And it doesn't surprise anyone that you think getting rubbed by citizens is good for both of you.

  • OO=======D||

    To be fair, they have very soft hands. Almost like a little boy's.

  • WarrenT||

    Are you drunk?

  • WarrenT||

    That was to dunphy, fucking comments architecture.

  • sarcasmic||

    On power, yes.

  • WarrenT||

    So not only is he taking Fascistomin he is taking Delusionol as well.

    There is no way someone could have gone through what they did on that day and come out of the experience with a higher regard for cops.

  • sarcasmic||

    But Officer Dunphy has assured us that he's not like the others.
    Why, just the other day someone threw the business end of a shovel at him, and he didn't kill the guy!
    He would have been perfectly justified, but he used his superior faculties of restraint to not take the person's life.

    For that we should be forever grateful.

  • Pip||

    Did someone light the pig signal? Because I didn't see it.

    Also, (OT) there is a huge crane a few blocks from my office. It's a good 200 feet high and about two blocks long. There was a thunderstorm this morning, but the crane worked right through it. How come they don't get hit by lightning?

  • WarrenT||

    are we talking about a giant bird that is somehow employed because I need to see some pics of that.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    If only there was some sort of device, like some sort of metal rod attached to a grounding cable, that you could put on top of things to keep them fromg being damaged by lightning.

  • Pip||

    "but in my area, we run 'citizen's academies'"

    Does your wife, Morgan Fairchild attend and help out? I'll have to ask the next time I do her.

  • ||

    Self-selected sample group, nuff said.

  • WarrenT||

    Self-selected sample gruppen.

  • Raston Bot||

    Self-selection bias arises in any situation in which individuals select themselves into a group, causing a biased sample with nonprobability sampling. (wikipedia)

    But I can't tell if Dunphy was just yanking our chains by providing such an obvious example after calling out HnRers for self-selection bias.

  • ant1sthenes||

    "ime, the more people who rub up against govt, the more who tend to support it. "

    Non-shitty local government, maybe. The feds? Even other feds hate the feds.

  • aelhues||

    In general, I support cops. It is my belief that the majority of them are simply trying to do a good job. However, I don't really see how your response relates to the post. It wasn't berating cops, except sorta on the side. It was berating the policies. What justified the raid? What justified property confiscation? Whatever it is that does justify these actions, really needs to be revamped.

  • R C Dean||

    It is my belief that the majority of them are simply trying to do a good job.

    I used to believe this, but now I believe that they are thoroughly tribalized and infected with an "us v. them" groupthink and bias. If you're on the right side of the thin blue line, you get treated very differently than if you are a "civilian".

    Fuck that. The rule of law means "no double standards"; without the legitimacy of the rule of law, people who do what cops do are not entitled to any deference or social regard. No cop who sees another cop break the law without treating them exactly like they would a "civilian" who broke the same law is a good cop.

  • SKR||

    My anecdotes are not regarding cops, but the building department. Every client I have ever taken there has come away at least a little more disgusted by government.

  • dehaul||

    I don't personally hate cops - I hate these boneheaded policies that put both cops and citizens in peril when no crime against another person has occurred.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Were there any ride-alongs when your colleagues "beat the Mexican piss" out of that guy in Seattle? Or do you only take them to the dog and pony show?

  • Cavpitalist||

    I've been on a ride-along, doing drug interdiction. We sat on the side of the interstate all night, and when the cops saw a minority in a van, we pulled them over. If they acted suspicious, the cops started pulling apart the vehicle.

    I asked if it wasn't illegal to pull people over without cause, and I got a laugh and a "everyone touches the center line at some point".

    That's my one experience, which means that it is the sum of all policework.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Dan Viets is an exceptionally good lawyer, taking many of these cases pro bono. Not many people know how hard he works and for how little money. I salute you Dan for your tireless advocacy for individual drug rights and for taking these cases on your own time. You are a true hero my friend.

  • Brian D||

    That'll teach him to, uh, start a band and, er, allow people onto his property.

  • ||

    How did ProL get an interview with the guy? Does that make him our King now or something?

    I for one welcome my new overlord.

  • BakedPenguin||

    A different PL than our guy. Lawyers with their Latin and all that.

  • SugarFree||

    Lawyers with their Latin and all that.

    Just like Hogwarts!

  • ||

    Satanists!

  • Pro Libertate||

    No, no, we use real Latin. Like the church. In fact, the secret is that the American bar is the successor institution to Roman Catholicism. I can and have excommunicated people. Like sloopyinca.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Yes, but you are Satanists, aren't you? It would explain a lot, actually.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Don't be silly.

    First there was nothing. . .then there was Calvin! Calvin, the mighty god, creates the universe with pure will! Form utter nothingness comes swirling form! Life begins where once was void! But Calvin is no kind and loving god! He's one of the old gods! He demands sacrifice. Yes, Calvin is a god of the underworld! And the puny inhabitants of earth displease him! The great Calvin ignores their please for mercy and the doomed writhe in agony! Have you seen how absorbed Calvin is with those tinkertoys? He's creating whole worlds over there! I'll be he grows up to be an architect. Calvin, the mighty god, creates the universe with pure will. Life begins where there once was void. Calvin is no loving god, he demands sacrifice. Calvin is a god of the underworld. The puny inhabitants of earth displease him. Calvin ignores their pleas for mercy, and the doomed writhe in agony.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    I recently learned that on the back of The Essential Calvin and Hobbes, the town Godzilla/Calvin is destroying is Chagrin Falls, OH. It's actually a beautiful depiction of the cute little downtown (with Calvin about to destroy/eat "The Popcorn Shop.")
    True story.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I, too, would destroy parts of Ohio.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Just give me 15 minutes warning.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Just parts. After all, Armstrong must be protected, and he's in Ohio.

  • OO=======D||

    Didn't he join the Manson family after the moon walk?

  • Nephilium||

    That would be because Bill Watterson lives in Chagrin Falls. He used to go to the local bookstores, pick up Calvin and Hobbes books, and autograph them randomly. He stopped doing this when the local bookstores would then take the book off the shelf and sell the autographed books at a premium.

  • Pi Guy||

    The Essential Calvin and Hobbes is prominently displayed atop my book shelves.

    More wisdom there than in the bible.

  • ||

    A different PL than our guy.

    *whispers* that was the joke ; )

  • SugarFree||

    Fuck you and your so-called jokes. This place isn't some backwoods chat-room!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Sorry. My humorometer has been malfunctioning recently. I blame the election. Also, fried chicken.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Fried chicken is what makes this country great. Don't go ruining it, too.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I am now your god.

    I'm not Will Grigg, who hosts the Pro Libertate/Freedom in Our Time blog. I got the tag from a family motto, but it's hardly unique to us.

  • JW||

    It's getting hard to give a shit about the misfortune of people who, in all likelihood, aided and abetted the creation of the status quo and its police state, with repeated votes for the current political class, just because they were the right color TEAM or they promised free biofuel made from unicorn dung or to kick out them dirty ferriners.

    You actively helped create this monster, pardon me while I have a relaxing drink while it eats the villagers. Don't come running to me for help.

    If I'm completely wrong here and it turns out that Tebeau is a libertarian or the like, then accept my humble apology and I will gladly eat my words in his case. However, the overall point remains.

  • John||

    I doubt this guy supports the drug war.

  • JW||

    That's my point John. People have been voting for TEAM RED/BLUE because they were promised free ponies of some kind, in spite of the evidence of the carnage of everyone's liberties being right out in the open, if anyone ever bothered to look. They voted over and over for the power mongers and con men, outright rejecting alternatives like Gary Johnson or Ron Paul and embrace the same class of fools again in the next election.

    Libertarians have warned people over and over about the dangers of the growing powers of the state and the irreparable it will bring, if it continues to grow unchecked and not cut dramatically back. But we get called nutjobs or "dangerous" because we don't believe in unlimited welfare or armed border fences.

    It directly affects me and my family as well, and what is happening is not only outrageous, but was easily avoided. But people wanted their entitlements and shiny new tanks. So fuck the status quo'ers. Let them burn.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Yeah! Like in the Taggart Tunnel!
    Bwahahahahah!

  • ||

    Exactly. If you are someone who voted for Obama, you are a moron, but he did say he would lighten up the WOD. If you vote for him again, FUCK YOU, and if you get busted for drugs and have your land seized, FUCK YOU even harder and suck it up, bitch. Because you knew what he was like and voted for him anyway.

    Partisanship is a disease, and it's getting terminal.

  • Pro Libertate||

    The first time was stupid. To do it again is evil.

  • ||

    But, but, Obama makes jokes about pot legalization. Isn't that light enough for you?

  • Killazontherun||

    His surrogates go around whispering in all the right headstore forum niches that Obama has a secret plan to end the WoD after the election, so it must be true.

  • ||

    Why do we hire people to sell drugs to fuck up people's lives for selling drugs?

    Minor clarification...we hired people to buy, not sell.

    Carry on...

  • RBS||

    They do it both ways, except they usually sell fake drugs.

  • crazyfingers||

    This was posted on several Grateful Dead/hippie forums I read, and probably 75% of the replies defended the government action in some way, calling this poor guy an "idiot" and implying that he deserves it.

    It was just further proof to me that most on the left are nothing more than wannabee fascists who will cheer on government thuggery even when it poses a direct threat to their chosen lifestyles.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    I seriously doubt that the hippies are cheering for this. Provide some examples and I might change my mind.

  • fried wylie||

    yeah, I'm thinking those comments are probably made by hippie-haters who only visit the sites to troll hippies.

  • OO=======D||

    "to troll hippies"

    A hippie drill is more effective.

  • Ska||

    It's amazing how hard people cheer for the establishment who is so ready to ass fuck anyone that stands in the way.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    In the future, we will all be Sodomites.

    And loving it..... lol

  • RBS||

    I'm sure they will all say the same thing next time some cop busts up The Lot.

  • John||

    Why can't there be some rich libertarian who would buy this property in the seizure sale and give it back to this guy?

  • ||

    You should've told them: Me today, you tomorrow.

  • ||

    WTF? John's post wasn't even here when I replied to crazyfingers.

  • MOFO.||

    If you oppose armed raids and the seizure of property to prevent victimless crimes, then you just want to live in Somalia.

  • ||

    And if you don't support perpetual anarchy you automatically support this raid. See, two can play at that kind of stupidity.

  • MOFO.||

    The Somalia strawman is so well worn, it deserves to be mocked. The next time someone trots out "support perpetual anarchy" as a strawman, ill be sure to mock that as well.

  • ||

    No point in supporting perpetual anarchy; if people ever find themselves in a state of lawlessness they will happily accept a protection racket from warlords, knights, samurai, whoever is willing to provide it. People always sacrifice freedom for security because you can't live in a system of chaos.

    What libertarians refuse to accept is that we need to keep force under control. "Abandon government." Then what? Criminals will arrest themselves? Come on. You cannot have freedom in a free for all society in which anybody can do acting they like. Now, you present your own strawmen for why an anarchistic society won't be that way. Why lawlessness really isn't lawlessness, how you will use force when you claim you despise it, how you deal with the great paradox of anarchy - or if you want to skip that paradox just explain how we are supposed to function without ever using force or simply allowing whoever has the biggest guns rule. And explain why it won't be that way in a society in which all can use force and there are no restrictions on its use.

  • ||

    And forget Somalia; most of Africa was without adequate government in the 20th Century. You should see the wonderful life of the people of Sierra Leone under the RUF: they would stroll into town, amputate limbs, force children to murder their own parents as part of a dehumanization process and kidnap them to use as child soldiers. When they were used next they were drugged up on cocaine. It's a pity there were never any cops to stop this, but on the plus side there was no police brutality.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I guess you don't understand what the word "initiation" means.

  • Coeus||

    You should see the wonderful life of the people of Sierra Leone under the RUF:.....It's a pity there were never any cops to stop this, but on the plus side there was no police brutality.

    ??? The RUF were the cops.

  • R C Dean||

    What libertarians refuse to accept is that we need to keep force under control. "Abandon government."

    What Derpy fails to recognize is

    (a) Libertarians are not anarchists.

    (b) Its the statists who don't want to keep force under control, and the libertarians who do. "Limited government" = "institution authorized to initiate force is under control".

  • ||

    Libertarians are a mixed bag, but a frighteningly large number seem to be anarchists or just so angry at government they want to destroy it rather than fixing it. MOFO certainly seems like an anarchist to me and the title of this article is highly suggestive of irrational anti-government sentiment.

    And statists are in favour of using force? No shit, the sky is also blue. I just don't believe in the two extremes of absolute chaos and absolute control. We don't have to have a society in which everybody is the property of an elite or everybody must protect themselves from psychopathic rebels who can do as they please because there are no laws that say they can't.

    I just wish there was a single person who understood the concept of using force to protect rights. It seems nobody from the furthest left to the furthest right does. I guess everybody wants things there own way and the libertarian version of that is "I'm so benevolent that I'm going to let everybody else have their own way alongside me." Good luck with that.

  • Coeus||

    just so angry at government they want to destroy it rather than fixing it.

    Shrinking it is fixing it. The problem is that power and corruption go hand in hand. You can't fix corruption by giving more power to the corrupt. Yet, when people talk about "fixing" government, their solutions always involve exactly that.

  • dehaul||

    I think you are trolling Derpy, but I'll respond anyway.

    I don't know which libertarians you are talking to, but usually the line that is draw is that government should keep from inflicting harm on others...

    If the Tebeau guy was running a rape camp where he unwillingly took people to his camp to be raped, then I would be happy to see the government take him out. This would be the concept you talk about - using force to protect rights.

    But he wasn't doing that. He was allowing people to consume substances on his properly that the government has arbitrarily called "bad." If anything, the government trampled on the rights of individuals to put substances in their own bodies.

  • ||

    I've said it here before I'll say it again: calling a person a troll the instant a person disagrees with you is the reductio ad Hitlerum of the 21th century and it doesn't make you look good. And it seems to be rather prevalent here.

    And no the RUF weren't cops *facepalm* they were psychopathic rebels in search of blood diamonds who could exist in lawless Sierra Leone because they had AKs and the people didn't. And that wasn't about rights it was about wealth. Cops are people you call to get rid of criminals. Some cops are good, some are bad, but even in police states real cops exist to arrest criminals. You could count on the cops of the Soviet Union to throw burglars in jail just as you could expect them to throw subversives in the gulags. Everybody knows the difference between cops and insane rebels.

  • Coeus||

    Cops are people you call to get rid of criminals. Some cops are good, some are bad, but even in police states real cops exist to arrest criminals.

    Facepalm all you want, (in fact, do it more anyway, it might just knock your head out of your ass.) Cops are the people who enforce the rules of those in authority, backed with the threat of violence. If they want to jail people who break their rules or just kill them, they're still the same thing. It's guys with guns doing what their leaders tell them, without regard for the feelings or thoughts of those they rule.

    Look at what you're saying here. The guys are going around with weapons stealing from and abducting people for reasons that the people they're stealing from and abducting don't agree with. How is that any different from what happened in this story?

  • ||

    Yeah who needs the threat of violence, criminals just need a stern talking to. Seriously though in a society without those horrid cops things are not pretty for peaceful people when they have to deal with criminal thugs on their own. It's not the utopia you claim it is; that's why people put up with tyranny rather than let criminals rule. I'm not saying that tyranny is the answer but anarchy, rule by the worst thugs with the most power, is the worst possible state to be in.

  • Coeus||

    I'm not saying that tyranny is the answer but anarchy, rule by the worst thugs with the most power, is the worst possible state to be in.

    The two situations you describe are functionally identical. Both are the result of using thugs with guns to violate the non-aggression principle. For some reason you threw the word anarchy in to describe the second situation. I suggest you look up the word. I'm a minarchist, myself. You might want to look up that one as well. Judging by what you've written, you might find a lot to like.

  • Coeus||

    Yeah who needs the threat of violence, criminals just need a stern talking to.

    That's a strawman, as no one said that.

    Seriously though in a society without those horrid cops things are not pretty for peaceful people when they have to deal with criminal thugs on their own.

    At least I'm legally allowed to defend myself from the non-cop thugs. When consensual interactions between adults are discouraged with threats of violence, imprisonment and arbitrary seizures of property, there is no difference cops and robber barons.

  • np||

    You seem to be confusing anarchy for chaos. In fact anarchy implies ordnung, it's the complete opposite of chaos. Let's look the original meaning from its etymology: an - archy = no rulers, vis-a-vis mon-archy or olig-archy

    We don't have to have a society in which everybody is the property of an elite

    Anarchy means no one is the property of anyone else. It implements the full force of self-ownership.

    everybody must protect themselves from psychopathic rebels who can do as they please because there are no laws that say they can't.

    Again, anarchy does not mean anyone can do as they please to everyone else. What it does mean is that everyone is free to do what he wants for himself and voluntarily with others. But aggression is met equally with aggression.

    You're claiming what prevents crime--real crime anyways--are "laws". Well fuck, laws don't enforce themselves you know. They can just as effectively be implemented or secured with private security, whether by yourself, in cooperation with others or by hiring or contracting out private police (and usually with private insurance)

  • ||

    "Again, anarchy does not mean anyone can do as they please to everyone else. What it does mean is that everyone is free to do what he wants for himself and voluntarily with others. But aggression is met equally with aggression."

    That happened in Sierra Leone. The problem is that "aggression meeting aggression" doesn't work very well when one side are filthy rich blood diamond funded rebels armed to the teeth with AKs and rocket launchers and everybody else are dirt poor peasants. This is what I mean by "whoever has the biggest gun rules".

    And "aggression meeting aggression" with two roughly well armed sides is usually refereed to as war. Not cool.

    And yes laws need to be enforced, but in a marketplace of violence everybody creates their own rules. Libertarians who understand that prohibition is evil and futile should understand: just look at business in the drug world. Look what happens when businessmen have to use force for themselves. It's not a pretty sight and once again the biggest psychopaths like Pablo Escobar and the loonies behind Zeta are the winners, not the most productive and talented.

  • MOFO.||

    No, i am, in fact, mocking exactly the argument you are presenting here, that libertarianism == anarchy. That anyone who opposes government excess or abuse wants to live in Somalia.

    As i said, its a well worn strawman, one that you seem both eager to continue and unaware that you are employing.

    People like you are exactly why i mock, because you actually think you are making a point, you actually believe that shouting "Somalia" is the same as refuting libertarianism. I couldnt have asked for a better response from you if i had authored it myself.

  • ||

    You brought Somalia into this, not me. I think you're a little high on yourself my friend. The only reason the West gives a crap about Somalia is because the inevitable product of anarchy along a coastline, piracy, affects us.

    I prefer the example of Sierra Leone, but since that didn't affect us we ignored it. They're all black anyway. Who cares if thousands or millions of black people murder each other, Israel dude! We must obsess over that tiny strip of land called Israel!

    I wonder what Muslims and Jews, equally well armed, with no government would look like in that region we call Israel today? The Arab states would be begging the IDF to come back.

  • Loki||

    Tebeau’s crime was to permit the sale of marijuana, LDS and mushrooms

    Serves him right for allowing the sale of Mormons on his property.

  • T||

    Mormons are just a gateway to hard drugs, like Catholics or Russian Orthodox.

  • ||

    when i was UC, i spent a lot of time with pot smokers. pot was not our emphasis (We didn't even prosecute any pot sales cases), we simply used it as an "in" to get to the heroin, meth, etc, dealers.

    ime, a substantial # of pot users were indifferent at best, or even FOR the war on drugs, just not pot. the idea of legalizing heroin was not even on their radar. most of them did not fall under the "govt should have no authority to regulate my bloodstream" argument, which is mine and that of libertarians. most were of a "pot is benign and govt. shoudn't mess with it" variety. in fact, many pot advocates were happy with a "spend the money you would spend on pot advocates and go after the REAL bad guys- heroin and meth dealers".

    that's the attitude from a substantial %age of pot users

  • SIV||

    In my experience most stoner chicks think mj should be illegal.

  • nicole||

    For serious? That is...weird.

  • SIV||

    The opinion changes whenever they can't find any or get arrested. "Stoner chick" should probably be replaced by "women who smoke marijuana somewhat more than occasionally".

  • Coeus||

    Most chicks don't buy their own, so they don't care if there's risk involved in the purchase.

  • ||

    Fuck them, too. The "pot's hip, but LSD should be banned under penalty of death" assholes are still prohibitionists.

  • OO=======D||

    "when i was UC"

    No one gives a fuck.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    Wow! You mean to tell me that most pot smokers haven't thought about first principles or anything like that and are merely garden variety populists like just about everyone else?

    That's crazy talk!

  • ||

    All I want for Christmas is for the bureaucrats, politicians, and law enforcement responsible for this to die an agonizing death of some sort. Is that so wrong??

  • E||

    I'm a little confused on why nitrous oxide was placed on his bad list. It leaves your system in less than five minutes and you need to breath 100% nitrous for quit awhile before risking any long term damage.

  • fried wylie||

    Ummm, because it feels good? New to this game, I take it?

  • fried wylie||

    ohhh, wait, HIS bad list, missed that part.

    My guess would be injuries incurred by morons who take their nitrous standing up.

  • RBS||

    Maybe he didn't want a bunch of used balloons all over his property?

  • Rich||

    **cough**Teh Gayz**cough**

  • SugarFree||

    I'm sure gays dig N2O as much as heteros, but you are probably thinking of amyl nitrite, a drug long associated with male gay culture.

    N20 has always been more fun for my money, especially since a friend of mine worked at Dairy Queen and would pass us balloons filled with it out the drive-thru window.

  • Rich||

    I've heard of poppers, SF. But how do you explain THIS?!

  • SugarFree||

    Isn't that really more about monkeys wanting N20, as opposed to gay people? T-shirt comprehension FAIL! The most humiliating brand of FAIL.

  • OO=======D||

    No snorg-tee girl, no buy.

  • sarcasmic||

    I worked at a place that used little blue canisters to charge the whipped cream. Every now and again I'd forget to put the cream mix in there before charging the container.
    Dang! Gotta go upfront and get a balloon from the hostesses so I can slip into the walk-in and dispose of the nitrous.
    I hated those days.

  • SIV||

    I quit a job at an ice cream parlor(30+ years ago)right after huffing an entire case of Reddi-Whip. The same night I had finally till-tapped the wages they failed to pay me. I rang up all the double and triple cones as singles while keeping a running tally in my head and pocketing the difference from the register.

  • BakedPenguin||

    My brother was big into cars as a teen. You used to be able to buy straight nitrous oxide in a tank as a carburetor oxidizer. Unfortunately, by the time I was old enough to want to try some, they'd started adding sulfur dioxide.

  • Brett L||

    Had a friend who while in college on two or three occasions just outright stole full canisters from one of the science buildings. I don't advocate doing this, but I was impressed by the audacity.

  • RBS||

    Hahaha, a friend of mine stole a thing of ether. I don't really remember what we did with it...

  • Coeus||

    friend of mine stole a thing of ether.

    I was friends with a chemistry professor in college who once procured some for me to take on a spring break trip to Florida.

  • SIV||

    Reagent grade grain alcohol and pure meth courtesy of the organic chemistry lab's precursors and facilities.

  • jasno||

    NO2 use is usually quite visible(balloons) and can be very unhealthy if taken to excess. NO2 mixed properly with O2 is great. Drunk/stoned kids creating brain lesions(yep, it happens) from using too much is not so good.

    Also, Phishheads. Phishheads tend to be big nitrous fans and many folks in the hippy scene don't think highly of them.

  • Romulus Augustus||

    No, there won't be widespread outrage until the drug warriors raid Warner Brothers' studios in Burbank or 30 Rockefeller Plaza in NYC and seize the property because of the coke being dealt on the premises.

  • T||

    Warner Bros. has the lawyers and the cash to tie up an asset forfeiture case for years. This guy? Not so much.

    Whether or not this matters to some grandstanding AUSA, I dunno.

  • RBS||

    Yeah, especially when they seize your property then file the claim.

  • ||

    What's the justification for asset forfeiture laws? Fuck you, that's why, or what?

  • RBS||

    I think the stated justification is the property has been used in furtherance of some crime therefore it is "guilty" as well. The real justification is police dept's need money, so Fuck You, That's Why.

  • Rich||

    According to the Feds, Tebeau’s crime was to permit the sale of marijuana, LDS and mushrooms, while instructing employees to evict people who sold heroin, cocaine, crack, meth, and nitrous oxide.

    *Nitrous oxide*?

    Better charge him with a hate crime, too.

  • Randian||

    Is NO a gay thing? Because the hillbilly town where 8a was raised had discarded whippets all over the streets.

  • Rich||

    It *could* be.

    Hate crime.

  • fried wylie||

    Rolla Police Department

    well, duh, they had to show up.

  • fried wylie||

    Man, how do I get in on this legalized theft racket? I'd love to steal-me some 350-acres of land.

    Oh, I'd have to become a bootlicking statist? Nevermind.

  • sarcasmic||

    To get into the legalized theft racket all you have to do is join the club of people who are supposed to punish thieves.

    Then you can steal whatever you want and no one will do anything about it, because you are the one who is supposed to do something about it.

    As an added bonus you can beat the living shit out of anyone who looks at you sideways, and no one will do anything about it because you are the one who is supposed to do something about it.

    And when it comes time to do your job, enforcing the law, if you don't like the looks of the crime victim you don't have to help them.

    Win, win, win!

  • Paul.||

    "All we need is a president who smoked marijuana, maaan, and all this harassment from the man will stop!"

    Huh wha? Oh, sorry, I was remember stuff said to me in my youth.

  • Pro Libertate||

    What's this Spockstock? A lot of people wearing Vulcan ears getting together and not getting fucked up and acting really logically?

  • Paul.||

    They're stealing your name again. What do you think about an asset forfeiture raid to get it back?

  • Pro Libertate||

    No. This calls for private action.

  • Paul.||

    All's well that ends well: peaceful entrepreneur who enriched many lives through his hiring and the services he provided destitute and in jail, and the government--without whom we would have enjoyed none of this, at our expense--has a bunch more cash and land. They might need it to launch the next vital life-destroying assault on the innocent.

    Tebeau was clearely one of the 1%. I'm sure he deserves everything he's getting at the hands of the feds.

  • WarrenT||

    The well-feds.

  • Paul.||

    I'm quite sure Tebeau is fed up with the whole thing.

  • jasno||

    I just gotta say that throughout the whole ordeal Jimmy has remained one of the most happy, positive, and generally wonderful people I've ever met. It's reassuring to know that, whatever they do to him, they're not going to break his spirit.

    I still find it disturbing that the guys from the Grateful Dead, along with many of their fans, still support Obama so strongly, even after something as bad as this.

  • ||

    There was a group from the Rolla Police Department, which is two counties away from here."

    I lived the past five years in Rolla, and I've never heard of Camp Zoe or Schwagstock. But this doesn't surprise me in the least. City, county, and state law enforcement are often called in for routine traffic violations. You almost never see only one car with flashing lights. Still it's unusual to see local cops from neighboring towns. But I guess if you're actually gonna arrest someone, you throw a bigger party.

    Also, it looks like you crashed the Rolla City server.

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