He Did Not Have a License to Kill Either

In addition to "the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths," Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik blamed Arizona's gun laws for Saturday's shooting rampage in Tucson. "I have never been a proponent of letting everybody in this state carry weapons under any circumstances that they want," Dupnik said at a news conference yesterday, "and that's almost where we are." He called Arizona "the Tombstone of the United States." Taking its lead from Dupnik, The Washington Post explains just how wacky Arizona's gun regulations are:

Arizona gun laws, which have been criticized by gun-control groups, permit any law-abiding resident older than 18 to buy or possess a firearm. To buy a handgun, as opposed to a rifle or shotgun, federal law requires the buyer to be at least 21....

Guns are permitted almost everywhere in the state except a business or doctor's office. The state rifle association lists restaurants that permit concealed weapons. Guns are permissible inside the state Capitol and many other public buildings.

State law permits gun owners to carry a concealed weapon into establishments that serve alcohol as long as the gun owner isn't imbibing. Concealed guns are permitted on school grounds while picking up or dropping off a child, as long as the weapon is unloaded and the gun owner remains in a vehicle....

Arizona gun laws were relaxed further in 2010 when Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signed a National Rifle Association-backed bill repealing a state law requiring gun owners to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. State law now permits anyone 21 or older and legally qualified to own a firearm to carry the weapon without a concealed-to-carry permit.

The logic here may be even harder to follow than the reasoning that links the Tucson murders to Sarah Palin. If Arizona did not allow law-abiding adults to carry guns in public, how would that have deterred a man bent on assassinating a member of Congress in a Safeway parking lot?

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  • yonemoto||

  • Maurice||

    It not the least bit shocking that this is the same guy who refuses to enforce the state's immigration laws. He seems to have a real hard time understanding what his job entails and what it doesn't.

  • ||

    I'm going to play amateur psychiatrist (all the kids are doin' it!), and hypothesize: the sheriff is just like every other cop in this country, and believes disarming the populace will make his job easier and safer.

  • ||

    You are right, and so is the Sheriff. You people must understand that we at the government are more experienced at law making and enforcing, s please leave these decisions to us. We know what we are doing.

    Persons of lower status, as implied by our legal system, should not be allowed to carry weapons.
    http://youareproperty.blogspot.....ystem.html

  • JoshINHB||

    Nah,

    He's trying to distract people from the fact that his office ignored death threats from Loughner.

    http://www.reuters.com/article.....geNumber=2

  • Michael Ejercito||

    I'm going to play amateur psychiatrist (all the kids are doin' it!), and hypothesize: the sheriff is just like every other cop in this country, and believes disarming the populace will make his job easier and safer


    Somebody should ask him how New York City's gun laws made Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond, and Sean Bell safer.

  • Cecil||

    "If Arizona did not allow law-abiding adults to carry guns in public, how would that have deterred a man bent on assassinating a member of Congress in a Safeway parking lot?"

    Because a lunatic bent on mass murder will certainl think twice about breaking a law prohibiting concealed carry? Oh, wait...

  • ||

    Arizona gun laws, which have been criticized by gun-control groups

    Stop

    the

    fucking

    presses

    !

  • ||

    Dupnik appears to be more involved in this story that he would like.

    http://thechollajumps.wordpres.....ks-office/

  • Amazing||

    Any substantiation of this report anywhere else?

  • kinnath||

    Summary please -- blocked at work

  • #9||

    Basically he has been making threats for a while but Dupnik just said, nothing to see hear go about your business as usual...

    "Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability."

  • kinnath||

    Thanks

    When the first reports of prior death threats came out, I wondered how this guy was not on a no-buy list for weapons.

    Not that I necessarily agree with the existing waiting periods and background checks, but isn't this case the reason for having these kinds of checks?

  • ||

    Because unless he is subject to an EPO, has a domestic violence conviction, is a felon, or has been committed to a mental hospital by a judge, there is no list.

  • cynical||

    So... why wasn't he committed to a mental hospital, at least temporarily? He was obviously schizophrenic and apparently scared the hell out of some people.

  • ||

    why is palin denying that those were crosshairs on her website? why does it matter to her or any gun nut? hummm....

  • You're Boring||

    Don't be its porn

  • Pip||

    stupid much?

  • OO=======D ~~ ~~ ~ ~||

    Hey OhioOrrin, take me out of your mouth and click this link you god damn moron:

    http://bigjournalism.com/dloes.....rosshairs/

  • Montani Semper Liberi||

    "I'm going to kill the Congresswoman."

    "But dude, how are you going to get a gun in there? Don't you know Arizona requires you to have a CCW permit?"

    "Ah, shit, hadn't thought about that. Let's go play some Fallout."

  • ||

    Fallout: New Vegas--it saves lives!

  • jester||

    Seems to me that according to gun banners, Arizona should be subject to a wild west shoot-out about once a week. Funny how crazed gunmen occur in strange places like Scotland, Germany, North Carolina, etc.

    Nice reference to Tombstone. Certainly better than the Mecca metaphor.

  • ||

    Tombstone is about 30 minutes outside Tucson. So it's sort of funny him calling Arizona the Tombstone of the US. People in his county make money off of Tombstone tourism.

  • Robert||

    At first I thought that meant the USA was dead.

  • ||

    The interstring thing is that the shootout at the OK corral happened because Sheriff Behan believed Frank McLaury was violating Tombstone's gun control ordanance of the time.

    Had there been no gun laws in AZ, the incident never would hane happened. Mayor Daley of Chicago used to critize the wild west as well - as if the 1800s Western US didn't have the same type of oppressive gun laws. Someone might want to pick up a history book on occasion.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    In Missouri, during the drawn-out CCW debate, the leftist hand-wringers were CERTAIN! dead bodies would be stacked like firewood on every street corner.

    Couple of years later, and they're still CERTAIN! CCW holders will snap en masse at any moment.

    Fuckers.

  • jester||

    'en masse' is a French borrow phrase. Only the French act ant-farm 'en masse'. [Gratuitous xenophobic comment for the day]

  • Mr. FIFY||

    I hate to use French slang, but it seemed to fit the moment.

  • hmm||

    Give him a break. This deeply moral and ethical sheriff lacks the funding to be considered an expert in the philosophy of individual rights and logic. He's doing god's work and helping the flock see the light.

    Fucking control freak morons.

  • ||

    Would any state's gun laws have prevented this guy from buying a gun? He was crazy and had a few brushes with the law -- would that have been enough to get him on a "no sell" list?

  • Tim||

    I wonder if he was ever reported to the SHeriff's office as a potentially dangerous lunatic? They wouldn't hold that back would they?

  • Mike Laursen||

    I'd like to know that, too. The more common argument I'm seeing from political pundits/bloggers is that he should have somehow been blocked from buying a gun because he was known to be mentally unstable. (The Dupnik article doesn't make that argument.)

    I have doubts it would be feasible to track people with known mental problems/incidents of potentially violent behavior, but I'm curious if any state tries to.

  • SFC B||

    I'd bet $5 that HIPAA prevents any effort to track mentally ill people who have not already committed a crime.

  • Mike Laursen||

    A quick and dirty Google search seems to show that it is not a violation of HIPAA, and it is up to each state to decide whether it wants to report mental illness to the Federal gun check database.

    Not even going to post the link to the source, 'cause I'm not claiming to know anything about the topic. Just saw one article, which I may have misunderstood.

    Wonder if Arizona reports stuff like that. Even if they did, of course, some mental health professional (or someone) would have had to thought of and taken the time to enter something about Loughner.

    Several articles on this shooting have mentioned that schizophrenics aren't usually violent, although he did exhibit behavior that others found threatening, or at least disruptive.

    Sad the ratio of editorials to serious reporting on details like we're asking about.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    I have doubts it would be feasible to track people with known mental problems/incidents of potentially violent behavior, but I'm curious if any state tries to.


    Why not just intern them in camps, like what was done to persons of Japanese descent in the 1940's?

    The Supreme Court has already established that it is constitutional.

  • Mike Laursen||

    Jeez, dude. I wasn't advocating anything. Just trying to learn some facts. Mellow out.

  • Old Mexican||

    If Arizona did not allow law-abiding adults to carry guns in public, how would that have deterred a man bent on assassinating a member of Congress in a Safeway parking lot?

    Gun laws are very restrictive in Mexico, yet politicians are shot every year. So which logic would the Washington Post and Dupnik follow then?

    The reason the news about the shooting of congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords caused such consternation is because it is such an extraordinary event, even with all the guns that exist in the US. Instead, in a supposedly gun-free country like Mexico, the gunning down of politicians is almost taken as routine.

    So a more reasonable conclusion would be that the high availability of guns actually LOWERS the number of crimes against politicians, not raise it.

  • ||

    I was just thinking about Mexico.

  • ||

    Just admit that you were thinking about Salma Hayek.

  • ||

    Stay on target, dude.

  • ||

    Shhh... don't use the word 'target', you're going to get someone shot.

  • Old Mexican||

    Salma Hayek? She's old.

    Better set your crosshairs on her:

    http://www.prohaircut.com/gall....._32708.jpg

  • OO=======D ~~ ~~ ~ ~||

    You dirty, dirty old man.

  • jester||

    dirty old Mexican, you mean.

  • ||

    You are missing the subtext of ProL's extreme mammary fetish and the cross reference with Salma. It's OK, you'll understand these things in time.

  • ||

    I could set my crosshairs on the hollow of her throat. I will lay odds she looks great in pearls.

  • ph||

    but haven't you heard, Mexico's gun violence is due to guns being smuggled in from the north. If we had a continent-wide gun ban, there would be no gun violence in North America.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: ph,

    [B]ut haven't you heard, Mexico's gun violence is due to guns being smuggled in from the north.

    Yes, I have heard that. If guns have to be smuggled, that tells you that they are not available in Mexico. Instead, almost anyone can have a gun in AZ, yet people do not shoot politicians in AZ at the same rate (not even close) than Mexico's.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Then we could just import our illegal guns and gun parts from Russia and China....

    Oh wait, we already do that.

  • New York||

    Why can't Arizona be more like us?

  • Arizona||

    Because we don't like the taste of eurosemen.

  • #9||

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....s_by_state

    looks like AZ is 9th for Gun Violence. not too bad for a state in the middle of a drug/gang war.

  • LarryA||

    Note that AZ is two below Illinois, which prohibits both open and concealed carry. Also lower than California and Maryland.

  • robc||

    From that list, its hard to say if AZ's laws are stricter or looser than KY's laws.

    For example, in KY, you cant conceal carry into a bar or the bar part of a restaurant. But you can into the rest of the restaurant and I dont think there is anything that prevents you from drinking while carrying.

  • LarryA||

    The Brady Scores call it a tie. Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, and Oklahoma all score 2/100. Utah is the only 0/100.

  • Old Mexican||

    In addition to "the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths," Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik blamed Arizona's gun laws for Saturday's shooting rampage in Tucson.

    I blame the availability of iPods for the increase in jaywalking instances. So there!

  • ||

    Lacking appears to be any comment about whether these laws (and AZ in general) actually have more murders. How's the murder rate in gun-friendly Montana and Vermont? Compared to Maryland and DC?

  • #9||

    As my link about shows VT is about the lowest. Montana is in the bottom half. Maryland is a scary place to go to.

    interesting thought that almost half of VT's homicides are by knife. What the hell does that mean?

  • J.T.||

    Louisiana!

  • West Texas||

    Is a shithole!

  • West Texas||

    (and all of the nice friendly people I know from Louisiana will admit this readily...)

  • ||

    Would any state's gun laws have prevented this guy from buying a gun?

    When you buy a handgun, they do an *instant* background check, by phone, which is a federal requirement. Presumably, if he had been adjudicated incompetent, the guy in the FBI call center would have picked up on it, and told the guy behind the counter not to complete the transaction.

  • jester||

    Of course, there is no such thing as a black market for guns. At least not in the US where guns are perfectly legal.

    (irony-deficient: get yer RDA)

  • Mike M.||

    This fool Dupnik has apparently been in the office for 30 years and turns 75 tomorrow. I think it's about time that the folks in Pima County give him a nice retirement party and send him off to the golf course.

  • Jeffersonian||

    What came to mind as I listened to Dupnik ramble on was: Grandpa Simpson.

  • OO=======D ~~ ~~ ~ ~||

    You dirty, dirty old man.

  • Almanian||

    If Arizona did not allow law-abiding adults to carry guns in public, how would that have deterred a man bent on assassinating a member of Congress in a Safeway parking lot?

    HAHA! Your Jedi Mind Tricks™ won't work on me, Reason! If law-abiding citizens weren't allowed to carry guns in public, then NO ONE AT THAT GET TOGETHER WOULD HAVE HAD A GUN! ERGO - NO ONE GETS SHOT!!

    Try again, "Reason", if that's your real name....

  • OO=======D ~~ ~~ ~ ~||

    !!!KNIRD

  • ||

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....03644.html

    If ONLY we had Mexican gun control laws, where there is only one store to buy guns from, and rigorous and tough enforcement.
    Why, we would have the same benevolent and pacifistic society, where murder scarcely occurs, and if it does occur it is a wife bopping a husband on the head with a frying pan, not drug gangs that slaughter with impunity. If only we were as safe as the Mexicans...with there wise, wise, WISE gun laws...so, so safe...

  • LarryA||

    Arizona gun laws, which have been criticized by gun-control groups,

    The Brady folks only give California 79/100.

    Last night one of the news programs did an hour on the event. They actually quoted a guy who was carrying in a nearby store. He said after hearing the shots he came out of the store with his hand on his gun, but didn’t draw because the shooter was already down, tackled by people in the crowd.

    Note the difference between that and the Virginia Tech shooting, where the students and professors did exactly what they were trained to do. Nothing.

  • ||

    He said after hearing the shots he came out of the store with his hand on his gun, but didn’t draw because the shooter was already down, tackled by people in the crowd.

    Textbook weapons handling in action, right there.

  • ||

    Sheriff Nupdick carries a gun, and he is surrounded by other nupdicks carrying guns. So, he's all like, hey, don't carry guns you guys. OK Barney, when you stop, I'll stop.

  • ||

    As I just found out today, as of last July, if you're over 21 you don't need a concealed carry permit anymore.

  • Brady Bunch||

    If Arizona did not allow law-abiding adults to carry guns in public, how would that have deterred a man bent on assassinating a member of Congress in a Safeway parking lot?

    Come on, Jacob! What part of "not allow" don't you understand?

  • KPres||

    Hmmm.....

    Arizona has the 2nd lowest murder rate in the country.

    As has been said 1000 times, allowing citizens to carry guns PREVENTS more crimes than it enables.

  • jester||

    Stop exagerating. It's been said zillion times.

  • sevo||

    Hey, Dupnik!
    "This shouldn't happen in this country, or anywhere else, but in a free society, we're going to be subject to people like this. I prefer this to the alternative."
    Up yours!

  • Jerry||

    Loughner was caught by bystanders, while Dupnik's sheriff's office was probably having a Saturday morning picnic.

  • jester||

    Eating fucking donuts while working a speed trap. Give me a break!

  • Dello||

    "Concealed guns are permitted on school grounds while picking up or dropping off a child, as long as the weapon is unloaded and the gun owner remains in a vehicle...."

    Really? That's down right Draconian!

    In Washington state, I legally pick my kid up IN the school with a loaded weapon under my coat.

  • IceTrey||

    One of the guys holding down the shooter till the cops got there ran out of the Safeway with is hand on his concealed weapon ready to confront the nutjob. Several other witnesses were also armed. It seems only the fact that his gun jammed kept the shooter from dying of lead poising.

  • LarryA||

    That and the fact that in the middle of a crowd it's usually faster and safer to tackle the shooter than to pull a gun and shoot him.

  • Virginia||

    i just got my wife to STFU after reminding her of the 81 y.o. woman who scared off the serial rapist w/ her shotgun. so fuck the WashPost authoritarian shitrag.

  • JB||

    Dupnik is a walking, talking piece of shit.

    I'm not sure what makes him more retarded: cop, government employee, or old fucker.

    Get the fuck out and don't collect social security on your way out.

  • ||

    Remember, criminals are not criminals because they break laws, they're criminals because they dress gangsta!

    Everybody obeys all of the laws, we just keep police around because it would be unfair to them to make them unemployed.

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