House Raw Milk Bills Give Hope to Farmers, Consumers

Rep. Thomas Massie introduced two raw milk bills this week, with bi-partisan sponsorship and support. "It's a great issue because it's about freedom," says Massie.

MilkFoter / CC BY-SAEarlier this week, Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.) introduced an important set of bills that would loosen slightly the FDA's stranglehold on the interstate shipment and sale of raw milk. In another welcome development, Massie said he intends to introduce other "food freedom"-themed bills later this year.

Rep. Massie, a farmer who raises and markets grass-fed beef, was joined in sponsoring the bills by Rep. Chellie Pingree (D–Maine) and a total of eighteen other House members from both sides of the aisle.

According to a release put out this week by Rep. Massie's office, the bills—the “Milk Freedom of Act” and the “Interstate Milk Freedom Act”—are intended "to improve consumer food choices and to protect local farmers from federal interference."

The bills would prohibit the federal government from interfering with the interstate traffic of raw milk or its sale between farmers and consumers in "states where distribution or sale of such products is already legal."

The reasons behind the FDA's ban in the sale or shipment of raw milk in interstate commerce are interesting, if not widely known.

As I detailed in a 2012 column, the FDA's ban is a relatively new phenomenon. "[I]t wasn't until 1987 that FDA regulations mandated that unpasteurized milk could no longer be sold across state lines. The agency had successfully bucked pressure to implement such a ban but was forced to do so thanks to a federal judge’s 1986 ruling in a lawsuit launched by Public Citizen, the group founded by Ralph Nader. Without that lawsuit, it’s at least debatable whether a federal ban would be in place today."

As Rep. Massie told me when I spoke with him by phone this week, the raw milk ban is a case of a court stepping in to demand an administrative agency (here, the FDA) take action where Congress has not acted.

"Here you have essentially a law that's on the books that came out of the judicial and administrative branch, and never came through the legislative branch," Massie told me from his Kentucky farm. "I'm trying to remedy that situation."

"What good purpose does it serve for the federal government to prosecute someone for taking food from one state where it's legal to another state where it's legal," Massie asked rhetorically of current FDA policy.

Advocates for increased access to raw milk—me included—support Rep. Massie's bills while also recognizing that their passage would be the first of many necessary steps.

In a release issued by Rep. Massie's office this week, the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund's Pete Kennedy congratulates the congressman for introducing the bill, while also recognizing that the bills' chief benefit is "starting the process" toward greater access for farmers and consumers alike.

That process would be lengthy. One thing these bills would not do, for example, is provide relief to farmers and consumers in states where raw milk is tightly regulated or plainly illegal.

Sadly, this week brought for me a reminder of how such farmers continue to struggle against overly burdensome regulations.

I first became acquainted with Steve, an Illinois farmer who asked that I not use his last name for this column, by email last year. Steve, who was selling raw milk from his farm direct to consumers, wrote to tell me about an onerous Illinois bill that would have required small farmers like him to obtain a permit, which would require at least $20,000 capital investment to obtain, and to curtail sales to no more than 100 gallons per week. That would have been effectively the end of raw milk in Illinois.

Steve told me at the time that the regulatory miasma had him thinking about selling off his dairy cattle.

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  • ||

    This is just going to make it harder to crack down on the Amish.

  • Ted S.||

    OT: Iceland has a committee of names that determines what are legal names to name Icelandic children. (This is, of course, thoroughly unlibertarian.) The latest crop of naming decisions has accepted "Scrooge" for a boy (they also accepted "Elvis Aaron", and rejected "Missile" for a girl.

    Missiles are clearly male anyhow, what with being phallic symbols.

  • Rich||

    Interesting. Thanks, Ted!

    Eldflaug (‘Missile’) was rejected in part because it may cause children bearing the name unnecessary ridicule. Maxime, Maxine, Layla, Zoë and Alex were rejected.

    Maxime and Maxine were rejected because they sound too much alike, Layla because it may lead to sexual promiscuity and reminds the Committee of Eric Clapton, Zoë because it is too short, and Alex because everybody knows Alex is a boy's name.

  • Brett L||

    C'mon, Zoë is obviously racist because Serenity. You'd think such a strong woman would have a following in Vikingland.

  • Rich||

    It's also racist because it's similar to Zoo, and that's where animals live.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    What if you want to name your Icelandic kid Muhammad?

  • Rich||

    Good question.

    They *did* reject Krishna.

  • Hydra||

    How is it unlibertarian? No one is required to call the person by the name on their official government paperwork.

  • Rich||

    Exactly. They're required to call the person by their approved nickname.

  • Rich||

  • mr lizard||

    Wow that does not even require translation... It's like playing Jeopardy with Sean Connery.

  • Rich||

    "I'll take 'THE RAPISTS' for $1.36 trillion, Trebek."

  • General Butt Naked||

    If you like your ANAL BUM COVER, you can keep your ANAL BUM COVER.

  • Rich||

    *** coffee kicks in ***

    The correct Holder link

    Sorry, mr lizard!

  • LynchPin1477||

    Sebelius was joined by Amy Speace, a 46-year-old singer-songwriter who was able to find insurance on the exchange for $30 a month with a $500 deductible, thanks to a tax credit. Speace said she did not at first think she would be eligible for insurance on the exchange because she already was covered by a high deductible plan through a musicians group. Despite that coverage, she nearly had to declare bankruptcy a few years ago when she developed laryngitis and ended up owing $5,000 in medical bills. She was only saved from bankruptcy by the help of a charity.

    If you can't amass $5,000 in savings or equity by the time you are 46, then GTFO. I saved that much before I was 19.

    And if she was able to find help from a charity, what is the big deal?

  • Rich||

    I saved that much before I was 19.

    I'm thinking you're not a "singer-songwriter".

  • LynchPin1477||

    Well I sing, and sometimes I improvise. And I'm guessing I've had as much success as she has.

  • Rich||

    See? It's that damned "songwriter" thing. ;-)

  • ||

    Unfortunately this isn't limited to the "singer-songwriter" crowd. I think I read somewhere that close to 50% of people aged 45-55, the people should getting ready for retirement, have less than 10k in savings. And like 75% had less thank 100k. Those are very scary numbers and I know whose pockets they are going to try to pick.

  • General Butt Naked||

    It's nuts. I talk to guys at work that have been there a long time making pretty good money and they don't have dime one saved for retirement.

    These guys are 15-20 years from retirement and are leveraged to the max. They seem to like to one-up each other on who can have the newest car or most expensive harley. Their monthly auto expenses are more than my entire month's budget and they don't make that much more than I do.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    They're all in debt to their eyeballs.
    It is scary.
    I always wondered how these guys are affording a new car every three years, new quads every summer, new snowmachines every winter.

  • General Butt Naked||

    It's scary because I know that when it's time for me to retire, these are the people that'll be saying, "I ain't got nuthin', I'm just a poooooor old man, I worked hard my whole life, and because of the (corporations, economy, team red, team blue, the mexicans, the jews, the banks, whatever...) I'm gonna be forced to eat the cat food to stay alive... *blubber*"

    And the politicians will line up to give them the "fair shake" they never got. Which is code for taking the money from the people that saved and invested. Because, fuck those kulaks, yo.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    That kulak translates to fist brings a cherry that sundae.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    to that sundae.

    Damn thumb typing.

  • Hydra||

    Uzani's army with fists open.

  • Robert||

    Cats eat blubber? Reminds me of that cat cartoon with the beached whale.

  • Hydra||

    I would totally invest in a retirement savings account, if I were confident the fedgov wasn't going to want that money sometime during the next 35 years.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    If it comes down to that, I have an IRA that I can liquidate in less than an hour. When the IRS tries to get the early withdrawal penalty, I'll send them a check for 0$ with the memo "NO".

  • Hydra||

    You've obviously got balls of steel, but investing in gold, silver, lead, antibiotics, toilet paper, etc allows one to blend in with the overspending hordes. Meaning you're less likely to look through your peephole at a SWAT team with the memo "YES".

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Choices.

    Should I buy that new car or save for retirement? Should the wife keep working or quit and squirt out a third kid? If you've got two people working, there is absolutely NO reason you can't save one paycheck a month. People tend to live WAY above their means and give absolutely no thought to their futures.

    FUCK THEM! Their choice...they can live with the consequences.

  • Virginian||

    FUCK THEM! Their choice...they can live with the consequences.

    Yep, and they will....with a little bit of help from the government.

  • Hydra||

    Why save for a future that may never come?

    And all that physical shit the grasshopper bought is going to be a lot harder to confiscate than a bank account or a stock portfolio that the ant diligently put the fruits of his labor into.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    But having kids isn't a choice! I mean, except for when you choose to have sex, and choose to skip birth control, and choose not to have an abortion, and choose not to give up for adoption.

  • AlmightyJB||

    "I know whose pockets they are going to try to pick."

    People who saved. I mean it's only fair. Inequity.

  • Cytotoxic||

    That's the promise of cryptocurrency.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Nashville Mayor Karl Dean also joined Sebelius, saying that after the Affordable Care Act passed the city pulled together a team of people who are holding 200 events each month to provide information about and help with enrolling in a health insurance plan.

    I'm dubious of that number, but let's run with it. They still need the Secretary to encourage people to sign up? Maybe people just aren't interested...

  • Rich||

    I googled around a bit on this "200 events each month" stuff but found only the same verbiage everywhere.

    I call typo -- "20 events each month".

    Unless, of course, a tweet counts as an "event" -- then "200,000 events each month".

  • LynchPin1477||

    Sebelius said 520,000 uninsured Tennesseans would qualify for expanded Medicaid.
    The state estimates that 181,700 Tennesseans would qualify for expanded Medicaid. State and federal health officials were not immediately able to account for the discrepancy between the two estimates.

    This is my shocked face.

  • Rich||

    "I don’t have any idea how to respond to your shocked face.”

  • LynchPin1477||

    To say they can't account for a difference of 338,300 people is pretty mind boggling. Presumably they are both looking at some form of census data with demographic and income information. Presumably they are both applying some eligibility criteria to determine who would qualify. Presumably those criteria are defined by law.

    It should be fairly simple to find out which of those presumptions is wrong, or to identify the difference in data or criteria they are applying.

    And yet I'm utterly unsurprised that they can't get it right.

  • Rich||

    This kind of crap happens all the time.

    Those "State and federal health officials" should get a whopping 30 minutes to rectify their numbers or be fired.

  • Hydra||

    Maybe the state was counting teeth instead of people?

  • phandaal||

    Because Gummint, that's why:

    Needs to be recalculated? OK, they'll get right on that after their 2 hour lunch break, provided it can be done by sending one email to their supervisor before they go home at 3. To expect anything more than that is inhuman and completely unreasonable. They didn't sign up for this kind of stress! Time for sick leave.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Molyneux rebuttal of a randian's insistence on government.

    I think the randian guy hasn't checked his premises.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Only made it halfway through that. He's seriously maddening.

    Typical anarchist. Never acknowledges that there are people/other countries who will not follow the NAP.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Yeah I'm not going to watch this 'rebuttal'. Fact is Binswinger crushed their premises.

    All force is a monopoly; I don't want to live in Somalia; anarchism is a form of collectivism.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Fact is Binswinger crushed their premises.

    Binswanger mostly made assertions that either appealed to authority or only had the weight of being his opinion. The article was in the cherished past time of making up positions for libertarians then beating the fuck out of those strawmen. And quoting Ayn Rand quips is not a form of citation. It's like arguing with a jesus freak over evolution that constantly cites the bible.

    As for your second sentence, I don't really know what to say.

  • Cytotoxic||

    No it isn't. He logically refuted common anarchist positions and explained why they are stupid. There was no 'appeal to authority' or strawmen. Your claims otherwise are just your way of expressing butthurt.

    The article was so good, Imma link to it and quote it again.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ha.....ernment-2/

    The wielding of force is not a business function. In fact, force is outside the realm of economics.

    The shootout at the O.K. Corral was not a case of “competition.” Actual competition is a peaceful rivalry to gain dollars–dollars paid voluntarily in uncoerced trade.

    Governments are necessary–because we need to be secure from force initiated by criminals, terrorists, and foreign invaders.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Pearl Harbor was a lie?

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Dianne Feinstein is the Worst Congressperson, Exhibit F

    Feinstein has been a consistent advocate of banning BPA in food and beverage packaging, even though the claim it is dangerous is questionable and there seems to be no alternative that can do what BPA does for us at a reasonable cost.

    http://www.politico.com/news/s.....Page2.html

  • db||

    I.bet she has a campaign donor that offers an alternative. Jus' sayin'.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Dianne Feinstein is the Worst Congressperson, Exhibit G

    Feinstein not only voted for, but led the push for, the re-write of FISA which granted the White House permission for warrantless wiretaps. She is currently pushing for a bill to retroactively authorize the illegal FISA activity revealed by Edward Snowden.

    http://www.senate.gov/legislat.....vote=00309

    http://www.theamericanconserva.....bout-fisa/

  • Rich||

    “One of the biggest misconceptions about NSA is that we are unlawfully listening in on, or reading e-mails of, U.S. citizens,” the National Security Agency told CNN

    Yes, yes, we know -- it's all *perfectly lawful*.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Pause the thread, I have to pee.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Make room for his Excellency, the General! Summon the royal piss-boy!

  • General Butt Naked||

  • Rich||

    Sheesh, General, why don't you just use a chamberpot like the rest of us?

  • General Butt Naked||

    That's a good idea.

  • Rich||

    Pause the thread, I have to empty my chamberpot.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    I hope everyone is washing their hands and singing the alphabet song before they're coming back.

  • LynchPin1477||

    You can't bring your laptop into the bathroom?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Carrying a laptop in addition to having to hold my enormous dong would probably throw my back out.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    See, that's why we need Google Glasses with voice commands.

  • Rich||

    "What are *you* looking at?!"

    /guy in the next urinal

  • db||

    Government, if it has to exist, should be like Kickstarter. No policy.or.law should be.implemented until enough donations to cover its.full cost have been pledged by constituents. No law should be.perpetual with th3 exception of guarantees of basic.liberties.

  • Rich||

    No policy.or.law should be.implemented until enough donations to cover its.full cost have been pledged by constituents.

    Nice. But why not

    No policy.or.law should be.implemented until enough actual cash to cover its.full cost has been provided by constituents.

  • db||

    Well, I presume the pledged donations are actually held in escrow prior to reaching 5he limit. Or penalties would.be assessed for pledging falsely. In addition, in case the "no.perpetual laws" clause was.unclear, every so often (5 yr or so) the funding would have.to.be re-pledged.

  • Hydra||

    Meet 18F, the federal government's new agile software development office, based on "lean startup principles".

    "We favor experimentation, customer feedback and analytics, and iterative design over a sequential 'waterfall' model," says the office's website, which launched earlier this week. "If startups and companies like General Electric can do it, why not the U.S. government?"

    Frederic Bastiat, Lysander Spooner, and FA Hayek were unavailable for comment.

  • Rich||

    They could get healthcare.gov running in 29 minutes.

  • General Butt Naked||

    "If startups and companies like General Electric can do it, why not the U.S. government?"

    Umm, maybe because when you have a gun to your "customers'" heads the incentive to innovate and please just isn't there.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    I can't see how the government as product owner can steer any agile process.

  • Hydra||

    "I want to be scrotum master!!" -- Biden

  • SweatingGin||

    The post-it walls will be epic. They might even need a bigger building to hold all the post-its.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Hi 18F. We r 30M/F interested in meeting open minded people such as yourself. Plz send pics.

  • Irish||

    Related: Center for a stateless society thinks that anyone who is in favor of GMOs is a shill for Monsanto.

    This is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever read.

    In the mainstream libertarian movement, accusations of “statism” typically focus on a fairly predictable set of targets. Anyone who complains of racism, sexism or other social justice issues, the economic exploitation of workers or degradation of the environment is reflexively accused of statism on the assumption that exploitation, injustice and pollution could only be problems for people who hate freedom.

    What a fucking idiot. No one thinks it's wrong to complain about racism or sexism. It's wrong to use racism and sexism as a convenient excuse for the expansion of oppressive state power.

    Meanwhile, agribusiness interests in a dozen states are pushing so-called “Ag Gag” bills that would criminalize whistleblowing and undercover investigation of animal cruelty in factory farming operations.

    I don't even know what to say to this. A GMO business trying to stifle first amendment rights is obviously horrible, but it has nothing to do with whether GMOs themselves are safe. It's a total red herring.

  • Aloysious||

    A Left Market Anarchist Think Tank & Media Center

    Sounds idiotic.

    Read it. ugh. They are Leftists, first and foremost. icky.

  • R C Dean||

    Yeah. Proggies who hate corporations like to label themselves left-libertarians or left-anarchists.

    But they are still proggies, and their corp-hatred always seems to require that BigGov become BiggerGov.

  • Hydra||

    Bo Cara something.

  • Irish||

    ARREST CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS! shrieks impotent Gawker dipshit into the uncaring void.

  • LynchPin1477||

    That's terrifying, and I don't even count myself in the skeptic/denier crowd.

    He cites the case of those Italian seismologists being convicted of manslaughter *as a good thing*!

  • Irish||

    Progressives are so pro-science that they advocate for the arrest of scientists who get something wrong.

    Since no respectable scientist has ever been wrong, Gawker is just improving science by getting rid of the slackers.

  • LynchPin1477||

    No one is trying to stifle free speech. We're just having a conversation on some common-sense authoritarian reforms.

  • phandaal||

    Someone mentions people dying because they can't keep their insurance, to the sound of a mighty WHOOSH over Weinstein's cavernous head.

  • Irish||

    I didn't even realize it was Weinstein. He is the absolute worst person at Gawker, a position for which there is a ton of competition.

    Every time I read an article in which he is being horrible, I think back to that other article where he threw a hissy fit about how poor he is. Then I laugh because it's obvious this piece of human slime deserves his poverty.

  • Cytotoxic||

    He will always be miserable and tormented. There is justice. At least background levels of justice.

  • sarcasmic||

    Any suggestions for a site to get cheap ammo online?

    $22/50 adds up real quick.

    .38sp if it matters.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I peruse Natchez and they often have deals.

    Here's 50/$16, but you'll have to wait as they're out of stock.

    I might put myself on the notify list as that's a pretty good deal.

  • sarcasmic||

    Bookmarking the site. Thanks.

  • ||

    www.gunbot.net tracks the prices at a bunch of different sites.

  • SweatingGin||

    I hit up ammoman several years ago, quite like it. Usually fairly bulk.

  • sarcasmic||

    Another bookmark. Thanks.

  • db||

    Ammoman, as someone.suggested, or Cope's Distributing http://copesdistributing.com/

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Cheaper then Dirt. Pick the warehouse closest to you for cheaper shipping.

  • Tötmacher||

  • politicsbyothermeans||

    Robert Farago is a twat.

  • Agammamon||

    I usually use this aggregator

    http://ammoseek.com/

    The cheapest they show is $0.25/round (a thousand round lot for $250)

  • sarcasmic||

    After some googling that's where I ended up.

  • Sevo||

    CA senators told to get out! (with pay)
    "Senate suspends Calif. state Sen. Leland Yee, 2 others"
    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/ar.....357627.php

    One of whom is already convicted.

  • ||

    One of whom is already convicted.

    Yeah, that's pretty special. I can see "innocent until proven guilty" working in case of charges, but conviction means that one is guilty (most of the time).

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    He also gets to use his campaign warchest to pay for personal legal expenses. How on earth is that allowed?

  • Tötmacher||

    You're a pathetic joke.

  • ||

    So you're saying he can't use his campaign funds for legal defense?

  • Pompey||

    Don't feel like sounding off some pants-wetting bleat about the awful life-threatening dangers of raw milk?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    If you can't amass $5,000 in savings or equity by the time you are 46, then GTFO. I saved that much before I was 19.

    But, if you have to use that money to pay your bills, then you won't be able to afford your lifelong dream ecotourism expedition.

    That's not FAIR!

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    That's not FAIR!

    What's not fair is my DVR cut out recording Quali with 5 minutes left because of all the damn rain delays and red flags. I even added an hour.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

  • Ted S.||

    It's Formula 1, which is just a procession these days anyhow.

    I thoroughly enjoyed watching Chelsea lose to Palace.

  • Rhywun||

    watching Chelsea lose to Palace

    Highlight of my day.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Government, if it has to exist, should be like Kickstarter. No policy.or.law should be.implemented until enough donations to cover its.full cost have been pledged by constituents.

    Social justice is about more than paying your bills, you monster.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    It's Saturday, and you know what that means...

    Nancy Pelosi is proud to accept Planned Parenthood's Margaret Sanger Award.

    Pelosi: "To be associated with the great Margaret Sanger - and with other Margaret Sanger awardees- is a distinct honor."

    Prolife leader Lila Rose: "“Nancy Pelosi is really receiving the “Eugenics Award” – the Margaret Sanger Award is a euphemism for exactly this. And the reality behind the euphemism of ‘abortion’ – not a sterile medical procedure, but a violent act that kills a newly forming human being – is no less horrific.”

    http://cnsnews.com/news/articl.....eugenicist

  • Rich||

    "abortion is devastating the African American community ... - and yet ... the black community is blind to it.”

    *** scratches head ***

  • ||

    I thought it was single motherhood that was devastating the African American community.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Because it's either-or?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Rain delays?

    In Malaysia?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    How do the New! Improved! F1 cars work in the rain?

    It occurred to me the other day to wonder if some poor corner worker will get electrocuted by touching a car while standing in the wet grass.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    they slide off into the barriers like any other race car. hence the red flags.

  • Virginian||

    Batman Arkham Origins is ten bucks on Steam, with the DLC pack only five bucks.

    Get it before the weekend ends.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    Do you have a review for
    Construction Machines 2014?


    Become a boss of a construction company. Demolish old houses, flatten the ground, fill foundations with concrete and build new buildings - this is what you do. Sit behind the wheel of different construction machines - from trucks and diggers to huge cranes.
  • db||

    Does it have a bonus Killdozer scenario or is that DLC?

  • Agammamon||

    The game is sooo realistic guys. You start off by having to drive to Home Depot to pick up some day laborers. Then you have to dodge code inspectors looking for bribes and delays caused by immigration officers arresting your work force.

    As you get better and improve your company the game steps it up a bit. Now you have to manage tensions between your unionized workers and the unskilled labor. Dealing with union workers demanding their mandated 10 minute break after every 20 minutes of work when you've got a tight deadline. Add in this complication - Friday was payday, will my laborers come in to work on Monday or are they passed out from a weekend spent tweaking?

    Riveting stuff.

  • Acosmist||

    The immigration laws are enforced in the game? Not very realistic, then.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "If people can agree on those principles across party lines, then there may be hope for us after all."

    Maine and Kentucky? It isn't about party. A lot of things are about urban vs. rural.

    For a lot of urban consumers, I suspect drinking raw milk is like eating rabbit. It's something they just don't imagine themselves doing.

    And rural people understand drinking raw milk just like they understand eating rabbit.

    Yeah, drinking raw milk and eating rabbit is to urban people like gay marriage is to a lot of rural people--it's something they don't understand why people would want to do, and they don't know hardly anybody that wants to do it. So, those that do want to do it are basically othered.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    The raw milk movement here in Los Angeles is centered in some natural food store in Venice. The cops keep busting them and I think the owner is in jail as I write. Not very rural. Also rabbit. Have you been to Animal restaurant on Fairfax? They do rabbit, as well as every other one of God's creatures. Wouldn't be surprised to see nutria there some day. Not rural.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Sign me up. It's called "Animal"?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Ok, checked the menu. The rabbit dish:
    fried rabbit legs, short grain rice, lemon pepper, sour cream gravy

    That looks good. In fact, I would happily order anything on that menu.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    The tuna collar is great. As well as the bone marrow, and the oxtail poutine. You should take your wife for an adult meal. Also, I *hear* if you order certain dishes you get a complimentary tasting of foie gras.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, I appreciate that there are hipster types that drink raw milk and eat rabbit in Los Angeles.

    Out on the farm?

    When you want to keep your kids out of trouble, you give them a .22 and set them loose on the rabbits. And of course they bring them home and eat them.

    Out on the farm, they drink their milk straight from the cow.

    These aren't things hipsters do for their hipster reasons. These are things that everyday people do in rural America every day.

    "The raw milk movement here in Los Angeles is centered in some natural food store in Venice. The cops keep busting them and I think the owner is in jail as I write."

    That's sort of what I'm getting at. In rural America, if they busted everybody that was drinking raw milk (and serving it to their kids), they'd have to arrest every farmer in the county.

    In rural America, local law enforcement wouldn't enforce laws like that. It's a rural vs. urban kind of thing, where urban "tolerance" simply can't comprehend or tolerate what rural people do or how they're living their lives.

    ...just like rural people don't really grok gay people wanting to get married.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "When you want to keep your kids out of trouble, you give them a .22 and set them loose on the rabbits."

    Yeah, I'm sure there are people in Los Angeles who teach their kids how to shoot, too.

    That being said, giving a 13-year old kid a gun and setting him loose--to keep him out of trouble--is enough to get someone to call Child Protective Services in much of urban America. And in urban America, Child Protective Services just might take your child away for doing that, isn't that right?

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    In rural America, local law enforcement wouldn't enforce laws like that. It's a rural vs. urban kind of thing, where urban "tolerance" simply can't comprehend or tolerate what rural people do or how they're living their lives.

    I think this is a better argument. But it still misses the mark. I think urban hipsters and rural farmers can understand each other's cultures. The real schism may be in Law Enforcement culture. In LA, the LAPD is more than wiling to continue to harass and arrest those filthy hippies in Venice (because the law is the law!). But correct, the rural County Sheriff under the same "the law is the law" just rolls his eyes and let's the farmer drink and exchange raw milk.

    Bottom line, it's the State agents that exacerbate these cultural differences.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "I think urban hipsters and rural farmers can understand each other's cultures."

    Those laws in urban America and law enforcement in urban America aren't responding to the concerns of hipsters. They're responding to the concerns and mores of your average urban citizen...

    And your average urban citizen doesn't understand why people want to drink raw milk--just like they don't understand why people want to eat rabbit. It just isn't in their experience of something they want to do, so it doesn't make any sense to them.

  • Ken Shultz||

    As libertarians, we're truly tolerant. I don't have to own a gun or even want to own a gun in order to tolerate other people who do. But, sadly, the rest of the world just isn't like that. If it isn't something they themselves want to do or are doing, then they have a really hard time getting their heads around why other people should be allowed to do it.

    Even on issues like gay marriage, I think that issue only got traction in urban America once so many gay people came out of the closet--now, a tremendous number of people in urban America know someone who's gay. They don't see gay people as some abstract, faceless group--they see discrimination against gay people as happening to Jim in accounting.

    In rural America, it isn't like that, yet. You have much fewer openly gay people about, and for a lot of people out there, gay people are just an abstraction.

    Lots of people in rural America, on the other hand, drink milk straight from a cow. There isn't anything weird or abstract about that. It's AVERAGE urban people who can't get their heads around drinking raw milk. The same urban Americans who look at rural America (in an abstract way) and condemn it for being intolerant of the way other people live their lives.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    D'oh! Now I get your argument. Urban hipsters and rural farmers may actually understand each other better than the average urban dweller. I.e., a soccer mom in Redondo Beach is absolutely aghast that hippies in Venice drink raw milk, and aghast that 13 year old's in Fresno have rifles.

  • Ken Shultz||

    +1

  • Auric Demonocles||

    One of my "neighbors" (i.e. guy who lived in the house 1.5 miles away) was a state trooper. My dad would invite him to our Fourth of July party every year, and he would refuse. Apparently he wouldn't go out on his porch on that night, as it faced our pond, where we were setting off illegal fireworks.

  • Robert||

    Drinking raw milk isn't illegal. The laws on that apply only to commerce in the items in question.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Drinking raw milk may not be illegal, but if you live in urban America, and you're feeding raw milk to your children, you might do yourself a favor by not telling anybody about it.

    Because I think there are people who would call Child Protective Services, and CPS may not be as concerned about whether what you're doing is illegal as they are about whether your children are at risk because of some danger you're exposing them to that they've been informed about. They're supposed to do...something.

    That being said,...

    I've seen studies that suggest that the reason children who grow up on farms suffer from autoimmune diseases at a much lower rate than average is in no small part due to their consumption of raw milk. The running hypothesis is about all that bacteria and they hygiene hypothesis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

    I can understand why some people with a genetic predisposition for autoimmune diseases might feed their children raw milk--although I'm certainly not recommending that anybody do so.

  • Robert||

    Rabbit is common in groceries here in NYC, mostly for Italian-Americans I think.

  • Robert||

    It tastes like chicken—expensive chicken that pretty much has to be stewed rather than roasted, broiled, etc.

  • Ken Shultz||

    When you say "common", how common do you mean?

    Average urban Americans don't eat rabbit.

    They don't eat a lot of venison, pheasant, or kangaroo meat either--although I can find restaurants that serve all of that.

  • ||

  • Sevo||

    Piped right to the water heater!

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    'm sorry.but before I am willing to wholeheartedly jump on the raw milk bandwagon I want to see it firly established that if consumers do something risky (like costume unpasteurized milk, or take megadoses of vitamins) and are hit with the expected consequences, they don't get to sue anybody. Don't get your kid vaccinated because you'd rather listen to an over-the-hill pinup girl than medical experts? Then you don't get to sue people when your spawn dies of smallpox. Want to eat unprocessed food? Then you don't get to sue when the ills that food processing was instituted to thwart assault you.

    Think of it as evolution in action.

  • Cytotoxic||

    The WSJ has an opinion article about how Congress will miss Mike Rogers, that voice of common sense in the GOP. Tragically, it's behind a paywall.

  • Homple||

    I wonder who had what on Mike Rogers.

  • Derpetologist||

    I was reading about why beavers build dams. It turns out the purpose is to make a big pool of cold water. They bury fresh sticks in the mud at the bottom and the cold water keeps them from rotting. They basically make refrigerators so they food for the winter.

    It's interesting that a creature with an egg-sized brain can plan for the future better than many people. I think this is because the lazy, stupid beavers never get past the first winter.

    Fun fact: beavers sometimes accidentally kill themselves while cutting down trees.

    http://bobarnebeck.com/journal/deadbvd27dec7.jpg

    http://bobarnebeck.com/course.html

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I just bought a half gallon of Blue Diamond Almond Breeze milk. Am I going to die?

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Not to be a downer, but yeah, you will die some day. :(

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I grew up on a dairy farm. We still drank pasteurized milk, but that's because we choose to (I find raw milk too creamy). We also had alt-text. Those were the days.

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