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Marching with Michael Moore
After a rally, union toughs get a sneak peak of Capitalism: A Love Story
Life can take you on funny paths. Sometimes things just happen. For example, last week I marched with Michael Moore to end capitalism.
I was in Pittsburgh to cover the AFL-CIO's annual convention. The week before the event, organizers tacked a late addition onto the schedule: the first American showing of Moore's latest film, Capitalism: A Love Story.
Moore himself dropped in for the premiere. At a convention reception, the tubby populist spoke wistfully of his hope that the nation's governors would call out the National Guard to stop corporate leaders and union busters. And then Moore led a march through the streets of Pittsburgh to the Byham Theater, where the movie was being shown.
I followed along and found myself in the company of about 500 union members and left-wing activists. They were shouting chants like, "Hey-hey, ho-ho, insurance companies have got to go!" Without intending to, I even ended up sitting just behind Moore in the theater.
The film itself is about what you would expect: a two-hour polemic raging at the state of the economy and the malefactors that got us into it, identified as the titans of Wall Street (especially Goldman Sachs) and the regulators and lawmakers on Capitol Hill, especially the George W. Bush administration. Much of it features interviews with people being evicted from their homes or being laid off from their jobs. And Moore certainly isn't afraid to hit the sentimentality button. The interviewees are often weeping. The moment of hope arrives with—you guessed it—the election of Barack Obama, who is portrayed as a populist warrior who will reverse all of this.
For the members of the AFL-CIO, it was a huge hit. Many hope that it will take off the same way Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 did.
But Capitalism: A Love Story goes in two unexpected directions, both of which may elicit a mixed reaction from Moore's core audience.
First, Moore is a radical ideologue before he is a partisan Democrat. His film hammers congressional Democrats pretty hard for leading the effort to pass the Wall Street bailouts last year. Moore fudges a little on this, portraying the opposition that sank the initial House vote on the bailout as comprised exclusively of progressive Democrats. In fact, it was mostly Republican opposition that killed it. (That opposition crumbled after the markets subsequently tanked.)
Still, DVD copies of Capitalism: A Love Story are not likely to be passed around at Christmastime by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), or even House Financial Services Committee chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.). All of them are portrayed as either dupes or water carriers for Wall Street scoundrels.
Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) gets a particularly serious shellacking. The film dwells at length on his being a "friend of Angelo," i.e., Angelo Mozilo, the former Countywide Financial CEO who made below-market loans to the politically well-connected.
After the premiere one union activist asked Moore about the fact that two other people he criticizes in the film, National Economic Council chairman Larry Summers and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, are in Obama's administration now. Moore responded by saying that he imagined Obama had—figuratively speaking—hired bank robbers to advise him on keeping the bank from getting robbed.
"That's my hope," Moore declared.
The line got a laugh but it points to the fact that conservative tea party activists aren't the only ones upset with Washington. With the Democrats in charge of Congress and the White House, elements of the left are now beginning to hold them responsible for the state of the economy and the promises they have made. While they all still hate George W. Bush, the days when that was enough to unify the left are fading.
The film's second unexpected direction is to go beyond just shaking a finger at Wall Street and Washington. Moore doesn't simply call for new regulations. Instead, he explicitly states that "Capitalism is evil and you cannot regulate evil." Something must replace it.
He doesn't exactly say what should come next, but he does lay some pretty heavy hints. Towards the end of film he interviews Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the Senate's only (avowed) socialist. As far as Moore is concerned, Sanders' ideas "sound like America."
Warthole|10.6.09 @ 3:26AM|#
Michael Moore = big fat dog turd made up with frosting on it
When you bite into it, you find it's still a big fat dog turd, not a cake.
Jonas|9.21.09 @ 4:40PM|#
Yeah, I kind of lost interest about half-way through, but I kept reading. It was worth it just for the last paragraph.
Attorney|9.21.09 @ 4:44PM|#
Towards the end of film he interviews Sen. Bernie Sanders
(I-Vt.), the Senate's only (avowed) socialist. As far as Moore is
concerned, Sanders' ideas "sound like America."
Barf.
dennis|9.21.09 @ 4:45PM|#
Moore's cozy relationship with the hypothetical socialist overlords he wishes for would no doubt assure that he would get to keep all the cool shit he acquired selling his schlock in a mixed market economy.
|9.21.09 @ 4:49PM|#
Whenever the subject of Micheal Moore comes up, this is all I can raise as a mental image.
|9.21.09 @ 4:52PM|#
First, Moore is a radical ideologue before he is a partisan
Democrat. His film hammers congressional Democrats pretty hard for
leading the effort to pass the Wall Street bailouts last year.
Moore fudges a little on this, portraying the opposition that sank
the initial House vote on the bailout as comprised exclusively of
progressive Democrats. In fact, it was mostly Republican opposition
that killed it. (That opposition crumbled after the markets
subsequently tanked.)pork was added to the
bailout
FIFY
@|9.21.09 @ 4:53PM|#
Warty | September 21, 2009, 4:44pm | #
What's funnier than hipster glasses on a fat man?
Fat guy in a little
coat?
|9.21.09 @ 4:54PM|#
Caption Contest!
"I'm so hungry. Please put a polish sausage right...heeeeeere!"
|9.21.09 @ 5:00PM|#
Warren,
Yes, pork was added. But most politicians thought that the bailout
was unpopular politically, but believed the warnings of all the
"responsible" financial analysts that the world was doomed unless
the bailout was passed. The pork was necessary to get them to vote
for it, to soften the political backlash in their districts, but
the fear of Great Depression II and the scaremongering is why it
passed.
smartass sob|9.21.09 @ 5:06PM|#
What's funnier than hipster glasses on a fat man?
Oh, I don't know - maybe a dishonest, snotty-mouthed, socialist,
fat guy getting smacked in the mouth with the wide side of a
two-by-four?
Walter Jameson|9.21.09 @ 5:07PM|#
"It's not my fault. Capitalism turned me into a fat wealthy capitalist."
|9.21.09 @ 5:13PM|#
John Thacker,
Yes that's the way it was advertised. But the opposition
(correctly) rejected the thesis that the bailout would prevent
GDII. They were turned by the tried and true method of bribery.
Almost every economist in the |9.21.09 @ 5:15PM|#
But the opposition (correctly) rejected the thesis that the bailout would prevent GDII.
We disagree.
Mango Punch|9.21.09 @ 5:16PM|#
Moore is ahead of the curve:
I heard Socialists at the upper echelons of the 'revolution',
generally come out well ahead economically... maybe I should hop on
this band-wagon now while it's fresh!
Worst case capitalizm will pay me the big bucks for my
anti-capitalist documentaries...
Best case, socialism will pay me even bigger bucks as king!
Mango Punch|9.21.09 @ 5:20PM|#
Caption Contest!
"Michael Moore and the Invisible Man: A Love Story" [now on
Blue-Ray and DVD, rated X]
Tricky Prickears|9.21.09 @ 5:22PM|#
but the fear of Great Depression II and the scaremongering
is why it passed.
I dunno. Was it me, or did Paulson truly have the "deer
in the headlights" look in his eyes?
I hear a lot of Progressives complain about "Capitalism", but when
you press them for an alternative, they come up with co-ops or
something, and community gardens. I can't seem to explain to them
that Capitalism is the best way to fight "Capitalism".
|9.21.09 @ 5:23PM|#
Someone needs to re-release that Kelsey Grammer movie, An American Carol, the same weekend that Moore's latest crap fest comes out. Send a message by crushing it at the box office! American Carol - easily the funniest movie since anything with Larry the Cable guy in it. Git R Done!!! (They should change the name of this blog from "Hit N Run" to Git R Done - has anyone else thought of this yet?
BakedPenguin|9.21.09 @ 5:25PM|#
He looks so much like Peter Griffin it's scary.
Yeah, but a ten minute fight between Moore and a giant chicken
would actually be funny.
MNG|9.21.09 @ 5:29PM|#
Well, this fact certainly says something good about capitalism: under capitalism you can actually get rich and famous by denigrating capitalism. Imagine a communist anaology to that!
MNG|9.21.09 @ 5:32PM|#
Moore's a great capitalist. He anticipated a demand for
something that was not being met. Despite not being loaded he
combined hard work, willingness to take risks, and an eye towards
his consumer to create product after product that made him
wealthier and wealthier.
Of course, his product is that capitalism stinks.
But really, that's a beautiful thing about capitalism imo.
Michael Ejercito|10.5.09 @ 6:45PM|#
Capitalism is not an "ism." It is closer to being the opposite of an "ism," because it is simply the freedom of ordinary people to make whatever economic transactions they can mutually agree to.
Mango Punch|9.21.09 @ 5:35PM|#
"Moore's a great capitalist"
True, but there are some people who I wish the invisible hand would
punch in the face, rather than give them a hand job...
Mike M.|9.21.09 @ 5:48PM|#
Welcome to the topsy-turvy, Alice in Wonderland reality of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, where the world's greatest capitalists are radical far-left commies.
|10.14.09 @ 4:59AM|#
Didn't you see the part in Bowling for Columbine where all the peolpe in metro Toronto leave thier doors unlocked 24/7? Talk about Alice in Wonderland! This film I'm sure is no different.
|9.21.09 @ 5:53PM|#
So my Comp 2 group is doing a presentation on this movie (after
it comes out everywhere, obviously). Any suggestions on how to take
it, and how to not sound completely pissed off at Micheal
Moore?
Also capitalism is not evil, it is the only truly good and ethical
economic system. It respects personal property, and rewards those
who have ability. So, yeah, judging by the way I see capitalism,
talking about Moore objectively is going to be harder than skiing
up a mountain.
MNG|9.21.09 @ 5:54PM|#
Capitalism promotes people's self interest even when that
self-interest is harmful to capitalism's survival! But of course
capitalism incentivizes people to sell anything that sells, even
anti-capitalism or what not.
This point was made to me when Nike used the Beatles song
"Revolution" to sell shoes made by ten year olds working 10 hour a
day shifts in Bangladesh...
MNG|9.21.09 @ 5:59PM|#
"Also capitalism is not evil, it is the only truly good and
ethical economic system. It respects personal property, and rewards
those who have ability."
Dude, this is not going to be a very controversial statement here.
Hell, if you added "and lucky" at the end I'd agree with that
statement.
"Any suggestions on how to take it, and how to not sound completely
pissed off at Micheal Moore?"
I had to watch Bowling for Columbine in college. While I am pro-gun
rights I tried to fairly see Moore's points. Some were stupid and
awful (when he got K-Mart to stop selling hunting ammo and when he
ambushed Heston, whom we now know was ill at the time), others,
after thinking about them, were not (the part where he crushes pat
answers why our murder rate is so high [video games? well they have
those in Japan but theirs is not high; divorce rates? well they are
high in Europe but the murder rate is low; etc, interestingly he
even undercut his own point about gun control by having a segment
in which he says Canada has 7 million guns for 10 million families
yet still has very low murder rates]).
|9.21.09 @ 6:03PM|#
Capitalism promotes people's self interest even when that
self-interest is harmful to capitalism's survival!
Didn't Lenin say something about rope merchants along these
lines?
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 6:34PM|#
Incidentally - I just watched the 2007 Documentary,
"Manufacturing Dissent" - I recommend.
YouTube
provides!
jtuf|9.21.09 @ 6:35PM|#
I might see Capitalism. It depends on how Mr. Moore
responds to this e-mail I sent him.
Dear Sir,
I would like to see Capitalism: A Love Story, but I don't want to pay for a ticket. Please mail a free ticket to: ...
BeesInTheBrain|9.21.09 @ 6:40PM|#
"The election of Barack Obama, who is portrayed as a populist
warrior who will reverse all of this"
If this is true, then will the FEC ban this movie from the airwaves
during the 2012 election?
|9.21.09 @ 6:46PM|#
I haven't read the comments so excuse me if it's been mentioned before, which it most certainly has. But what do capitalism and the bailouts have to do with one another? It seems as if the bailouts were a total slap in the face to anyone who believes in the free market. So I wouldn't go showing a movie about it and calling it capitalism because it is far from it.
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 6:51PM|#
The problem is that Michael Moore doesn't understand the slightest bit of what capitalism actually is. Unfortunately, neither does his audience.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 7:04PM|#
The moment of hope arrives with-you guessed it-the election of Barack Obama, who is portrayed as a populist warrior who will reverse all of this.
Wow, Michael Moore turned government propagandist.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 7:06PM|#
All of them are portrayed as either dupes or water carriers for Wall Street scoundrels.
In fairness to Michael Moore, they are.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 7:09PM|#
One final note: Just before the film started, Moore asked the audience to turn off any recording devices because the studio did not want bootleg versions of the film getting around. Apparently this socialism stuff has its limits.
Fuck that! The film belongs to the People!
Paul|9.21.09 @ 7:11PM|#
MNG, Reason did a very similar article on Columbine a few years ago... at least I think it was Reason. Anyway, it was noted (I've never seen the film) that Moore was even introspective about 9/11 in that so much damage was caused by 19 guys with boxcutters.
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 7:14PM|#
"So apparently Michael Moore is portraying the bailouts -- that's right, the *government bailouts of Wall Street* -- as an example of "capitalism"! Um, hello? He can't be that stupid; no one is THAT stupid. He is promoting th...is kind of confusion deliberately."
- Tom Woods
|10.6.09 @ 2:00PM|#
That point can never be made enough. And to distinguish free market capitalism (individualism powered) vs crony capitalism (collectivism powered).
|9.21.09 @ 7:38PM|#
In a free market society, it is enough to have the funds. The suppliers of paper are as willing to sell it to the Daily Worker as to the Wall Street Journal. In a socialist society, it would not be enough to have the funds. The hypothetical supporter of capitalism would have to persuade a government factory making paper to sell to him, the government printing press to print his pamphlets, a government post office to distribute them among the people, a government agency to rent him a hall in which to talk, and so on.
Perhaps there is some way in which one could overcome these difficulties and preserve freedom in a socialist society. One cannot say it is utterly impossible. What is clear, however, is that these are very real difficulties in establishing institutions that will effectively preserve the possibility of dissent. So far as I know, none of the people who have been in favor of socialism and also in favor of freedom have really faced up to this issue, or made even a respectable start at developing the institutional arrangements that would permit freedom under socialism. By contrast, it is clear how a free market society fosters freedom.
- Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom
Some Guy|9.21.09 @ 8:00PM|#
After the premiere one union activist asked Moore about the
fact that two other people he criticizes in the film, National
Economic Council chairman Larry Summers and Treasury Secretary
Timothy Geithner, are in Obama's administration now. Moore
responded by saying that he imagined Obama had-figuratively
speaking-hired bank robbers to advise him on keeping the bank from
getting robbed.
"That's my hope," Moore declared.
So was he implying that he hasn't paid even a tiny bit of attention
as to the bank robbing they've been doing in the last 8 months, and
he's just hoping that they have changed course from the Bush
bailouts? If that's not what he means, then it makes no fucking
sense.
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Paul|9.21.09 @ 9:56PM|#
It's not the bank robbing I'm worried about, it's the Paul robbing that's getting on my nerves.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 9:59PM|#
So far as I know, none of the people who have been in favor of socialism and also in favor of freedom have really faced up to this issue, or made even a respectable start at developing the institutional arrangements that would permit freedom under socialism.
They have faced up to it, and simply deny that these effects will
come about. The supporters of Campaign Finance Reform, for
instance, really believe that with the right people in charge,
speech will not be chilled based on political reasons, or more
accurately, reasons for which they disagree.
In healthcare, they believe that in a system that's "not about
money" they truly believe that with the right people in charge,
decisions will be made based upon compassion and need, and the
outcomes will be better and more fair than free market
outcomes.
hmm|9.21.09 @ 10:07PM|#
...with the right people in charge
One of my favorite points in any discussion, or argument.
|9.21.09 @ 10:18PM|#
While many liberals have mocked conservatives for claiming
that the left's agenda is socialist, Moore's response is, "Yeah,
so?"
So every iteration of socialism implemented by man has been a
monumental exercise in oppression, misery and death. Fucking
moron.
|10.6.09 @ 2:03PM|#
Oh not every nation goes monumentally socialist so they don't get monumentally oppressive. For example the US still has some freedom left. But give them time.
The Libertarian Guy|9.21.09 @ 11:17PM|#
Don't you just love how a prick like Moore can USE capitalism,
to GAIN from it, amass a personal fortune... while trashing it like
it was a disease to be eradicated.
***
"Imagine a communist anaology to that!"
Well, MNG, at least in this admittedly-imperfect capitalist
society, we don't get shot for poking fun at our elected officials.
Like in, say, North Korea.
Joe C|9.21.09 @ 11:17PM|#
Caption contest: "Documentary" filmmaker Michael Moore seen sitting on a twinkie.
|9.21.09 @ 11:19PM|#
Given the opportunity, I would collapse into a quivering heap of exhaustion long before I ever got bored of punching Michael Moore's doughy face.
The Libertarian Guy|9.21.09 @ 11:26PM|#
No, violence would be wasted on even a monumental hypocrite like
Moore.
If he TRULY gave a shit, he'd give all his proceeds to charity, or
split it with the government, and live in poverty.
That disheveled, frumpy look isn't fooling people who know what
he's really about... making a buck trashing the country that gives
him the ability to make said buck.
smartass sob|9.21.09 @ 11:56PM|#
Caption contest: "Documentary" filmmaker Michael Moore seen
sitting on a twinkie.
Would that be before or after he ate it?
|9.22.09 @ 12:26AM|#
Thanks MNG, yeah I had to watch Bowling for Columbine in high school. Hated his message, but Moore makes some good points. And I don't think capitalism has anything to do with luck, it's all about who sells good stuff and who buys it.
BoycottMoore|9.22.09 @ 1:19AM|#
Not that this audience needs to be told not to give their money to Michael Moore, but please spread the word about the boycott. http://www.boycottmoore.com . Don't feed the pig!
Tony|9.22.09 @ 1:45AM|#
So every iteration of socialism implemented by man has been a monumental exercise in oppression, misery and death. Fucking moron.
Oh come on, the exercise in oppression, misery, and death I
witnessed in Paris was only just momentous.
Tony|9.22.09 @ 1:48AM|#
interestingly he even undercut his own point about gun control by having a segment in which he says Canada has 7 million guns for 10 million families yet still has very low murder rates]).
The message was ambiguous, and not just anti-gun. I think the
causal factor he discovers is America's culture of perpetual
media-driven fear.
J D|9.22.09 @ 2:18AM|#
"So every iteration of socialism implemented by man has been a
monumental exercise in oppression, misery and death. Fucking
moron."
Do you consider Canada, the UK, France, and Germany (among others)
socialist? I don't think things are as black and white as you seem
to believe.
Sean W. Malone|9.22.09 @ 2:55AM|#
I wouldn't consider most of Europe actually all that much more
socialist than the United States is - it's a few degrees more, but
the whole "mixed economy" thing is basically the same across the
board. The increased level of government intervention for various
European nations is basically the measurement of their lowered
standards of living/productivity. Not that shocking, but not to the
point where they are starving either. But I wouldn't want to live
in most of the places people live in Copenhagen, Helsinki, or
Stockholm - and there are only a few places in the UK, Germany
& Spain that would make much sense to me.
Regardless, the more control government has over people's lives,
the less individuals have and pretty much by definition, the worse
people's lives are. I don't know what the line is that takes a
nation over the edge into North Korea territory, but the mixed
economy thing is a huge drag on productivity, prosperity and
freedom all by itself.
Aurini|9.22.09 @ 3:33AM|#
What makes Socialism here in Canada (and presumably Europe,
though Britain makes me shudder) tolerable is that it's been a
long, slow development going hand-in-hand with culture - we're in
the frozen north, it's in our blood to take care of one another,
and this gradually got perverted into government-run
healthcare.
So although Canada *technically* has a lot of socilist elements,
and a Charter of Rights that isn't worth spit, we've got a long
history of civil law and behavioural standards going back to the
Magna Carta; in practice we're more free than you Yanks are at
times. The government is more likely to censor your freedom of
speech, but you're less likely to get attacked for what you're
saying.
Mind you, I'm still emmigrating down to Nevada one day and buying a
shitload of guns.
The Libertarian Guy|9.22.09 @ 9:11AM|#
"I think the causal factor he discovers is America's culture of
perpetual media-driven fear."
On BOTH sides of the extremist ideological aisle, right?
fred lapides|9.22.09 @ 10:02AM|#
the nature of comments in media postings usually a good marker
for the sort of people reading that source. In this instance: wow.
snarky, venomous, nothing thoughtful.
The general position--Moore ought not make money--is just plain
silly. Many years ago, a guy who was an American Marxist tired of
arguing against the system and turned his attention instead to
helping the working class out by making them profit from the
system. Name: Berny Cornfeld. Idea? mutuala funds for the
masses.
Why should Moore (like him or not) not make money to enable him to
make more films when he lives in the system he is dealing with?
|10.5.09 @ 4:58PM|#
Because he isn't living in accordance with the principles that he's trying to ram down everybody else's throats. It's like a rapist preaching celibacy. Do you really expect me to respect that? If so, why?
|9.22.09 @ 11:23AM|#
Do you consider Canada, the UK, France, and Germany (among
others) socialist? I don't think things are as black and white as
you seem to believe.
Those countries are welfare states, not socialist. So is the United
States for that matter.
|10.6.09 @ 2:07PM|#
It''s a continuum but if that's your criteria then yes, Venezuela, Cuba, the former USSR, et al.. socialism does cause monmumental misery.
Robert|9.22.09 @ 11:46AM|#
He looks so much like Peter Griffin it's scary.
He doesn't just look like him, he also
acts like him. Through a bullhorn, Peter Griffin
would probably even sound like Michael Moore.
|9.22.09 @ 12:36PM|#
Ugh, Michael More was in my town, and I didn't even get a chance
to boo?
This almost as tragic as my missing Radley Balko's visit as
well.
More, you're not worth any of our time. If my friend can get us in
for free, my boyfriend and I might go see your movie and taunt it.
Juvenile and sneaky, yes...Just like More.
|9.22.09 @ 1:29PM|#
I fully expect to see this movie without need for buying a ticket. If I am charged, this movie is hypocritical.
|9.22.09 @ 1:39PM|#
I liked another movie: "Stock Shock" because it explains how the whole naked short selling stock market manipulation thing works--through the example of Sirius XM stock. Good DVD. Amazon has it or stockshockmovie.com has the movie trailer.
|9.22.09 @ 1:40PM|#
The message was ambiguous, and not just anti-gun. I think the causal factor he discovers is America's culture of perpetual media-driven fear.
Which explains his ambush interview of Dan Rather near the end of
the film.
LarryA|9.23.09 @ 1:52AM|#
...with the right people in charge
That's actually the fatal flaw in socialism. After you raise a
couple of generations who let the government run their lives, there
aren't any more "right people" capable of running the
government.
Too bad Moore didn't take his union friends on another Cuba field
trip, to talk to the union members down there.
Marc|9.28.09 @ 1:07PM|#
the nature of comments in media postings usually a good
marker for the sort of people reading that source. In this
instance: wow. snarky, venomous, nothing thoughtful.
Ooh ooh! You forgot "poorly spelled and punctuated".
Welcome to the internet, Mr. Thoughtful Pants.
|9.28.09 @ 1:50PM|#
This reminds me of an article in the NYTimes: Briefly, a man identified as a wine seller was carrying a sign reading "Capitalism Kills". Since he's clearly not just a capitalist but a MERCHANT, I have to wonder if whether he a) truly understands what he's saying and is thus, an evil, evil sociopath or b) he's just a bit of a ninny. I'd love to ask him how he defines himself.
Ample Bosoms|10.5.09 @ 4:45PM|#
"This point was made to me when Nike used the Beatles song "Revolution" to sell shoes made by ten year olds working 10 hour a day shifts in Bangladesh..."
Imagine no Air Jordans,
I wonder if you can.
Duncan|10.5.09 @ 4:48PM|#
As much as libertarians might hate to hear this, they have a lot in common with libertarians in a number of areas. Sean Higgins seems shocked that there is a great deal of resentment on the left of bank bailouts. I think both libertarians and liberals are troubled by the idea that rules of the game and the system are designed to protect the powerful from their own mistakes. This is an area where libertarians have almost nothing in common with the Republican party.
|10.6.09 @ 2:20PM|#
Don't conflate dems with liberals or GOP with conservatives.
Libertarians have a lot in common with liberals and conservatives and almost nothing in common with the two parties. Liberals and conservatives otoh do tend to identify with a party and have more team think.
Specifically GOP conservatives tend not to be pro big business and hate big government and dem liberals tend to be pro big government and hate big business.. neither seeing they are the same thing.
03.24.63|10.5.09 @ 4:50PM|#
"In fairness to Michael Moore, they are."
Even a big fat, hypocritical broken clock...
03.24.63|10.5.09 @ 4:55PM|#
“In healthcare, they believe that in a system that's "not about money" they truly believe that with the right people in charge, decisions will be made based upon compassion and need, and the outcomes will be better and more fair than free market outcomes.”
I just watched Dr. Zhivago this weekend. It sure sold me on socialism.
03.24.63|10.5.09 @ 4:57PM|#
"Well, MNG, at least in this admittedly-imperfect capitalist society, we don't get shot for poking fun at our elected officials. Like in, say, North Korea."
The have elections in NK???
|10.5.09 @ 5:00PM|#
Moore reminds me of the propaganda pig "Squealer" in Animal Farm.
"Tactics, comrades, tactics!"
Colin|10.5.09 @ 5:14PM|#
It seems like the film did pretty poorly in its first week in wide release; although, of course, the newswires won't say this.
It tied Drew Barrymore's tepid roller derby film even though it was in twice as many theaters. And it only did about half of what Maher's film did this time last year.
t3knomanser|10.5.09 @ 5:16PM|#
I have to be honest: capitalism and unions are synonymous in my book. Unions are just another corporation.
Ample Bosoms|10.5.09 @ 5:17PM|#
OT:
"I'll tell you another thing about Glenn Beck. He wouldn't know the difference between a football, a bat and a hockey court."--Democratic consultant James Carville, Oct. 5
Art-P.O.G.|10.6.09 @ 2:34AM|#
What the-? I'm guessing they don't have hockey rinks in Louisiana (that's where Carville's from, right?)?
Attorney|10.5.09 @ 5:21PM|#
If you want a refresher on what you ate for lunch, take a look at some of the adoring comments about this movie & MM on the "Capitalism: ALS" IMDb discussion page.
|10.5.09 @ 5:22PM|#
The problem with capitalism is that the people who want to benefit from it are not smart enough to participate in it. As such, when they cannot put 2 and 2 together, they squeal "not fair" then insist that the people smart enough to participate in capitalism pay for the ineptitude of those not smart enough to compete.
Squirrel|10.5.09 @ 5:24PM|#
If you reload, you'll see that preview has returned even better than before.
Ample Bosoms|10.5.09 @ 5:26PM|#
BRIDGEWATER, S.D. (AP) -- Behind the freezer doors at a meat plant mysteriously abandoned by its owner, the 44 tons of bison meat managed to hold its own for months, masked by the brutal chill of two South Dakota winters.
Once the power was cut and spring thaw arrived, nature took over. And enough rotting meat to fill a high school gym did exactly what you'd expect: It stank.
It stank at the bank. It smelled at the law office. It reeked at the cafe. Even the jewelry store wasn't immune. Everyone in this tiny town could smell it, everywhere they went. A putrid odor so downright nasty the cleaners sent to mop up the gooey mess of liquefied meat - topped by a blanket of swarming white maggots and buzzed by a legion of flies - gave up after two days.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....SECTION=US
t3knomanser|10.5.09 @ 5:37PM|#
Fair point from the commentary: capitalism and socialism are both evil. I think we should just abolish economies and call it a day. Politics can be next.
|10.5.09 @ 7:57PM|#
+1
Even though I posted this as a reply, I still hate threaded comments with the fire of 10000 suns.
Ample Bosoms|10.5.09 @ 5:44PM|#
Caption contest:
I'm tellin' ya, Jimmy Carter has the tightest asshole. Quite the surprise.
|10.5.09 @ 5:44PM|#
Now WTF. Re-posting reason.tv garbage on Hit & Run was bad enough. Now what? The entire Reason staff can't think of anything, or be bothered to, write something?
JB|10.5.09 @ 5:46PM|#
It's beyond ironic that the moron is CHARGING PEOPLE MONEY for a movie about how capitalism is awful.
|10.5.09 @ 5:59PM|#
Literally the shittiest movie I have seen in a while. The only reason I saw it was to do a project on it.
VM|10.5.09 @ 6:03PM|#
Gary Gary Gary
(Not Gunnels, of course)
(or from Weird Science. "OH, GARY, YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE COMBING
YOUR HAIR")
You're blocking again. Hier - try some Gestalt therapy. Yell at this chair for a bit!
|10.6.09 @ 1:48AM|#
Michael Moore is a pile of cheesburgers. Whatever he is for I am against, except maybe seconds.
Babu|10.5.09 @ 6:10PM|#
Clearly Moore has asked people to pirate the movie and not buy the "official" releases: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4301.
|10.5.09 @ 6:16PM|#
I think both libertarians and liberals are troubled by the idea that rules of the game and the system are designed to protect the powerful from their own mistakes. This is an area where libertarians have almost nothing in common with the Republican party.
You've noticed that too, huh? It seems the author of this article took a shot at Bernie Sanders. Well, guess who wrote the Senate version of Ron Paul's HR 1207 Fed Transparency Act.
|10.5.09 @ 7:05PM|#
"I even ended up sitting just behind Moore in the theater."
Does he smell like sweaty cheese? He looks like he would.
TokyoTom|10.5.09 @ 11:05PM|#
I`ve assembled excerpts of Moore`s interviews/reviews here:
http://mises.org/Community/blo.....nment.aspx
He`s certainly right that the system is rotten.
|10.6.09 @ 12:48AM|#
Ever since Vince Chase refused to do Aquaman 2, I've been thinking Moore would be perfect. He'd look great in the suit.
|10.6.09 @ 4:50AM|#
Our Founding Fathers declared that the Liberty in America that the Constitution protects will only persist for a moral and just people.
I would extend that to economic freedom as well (I define capitalism as economic freedom)
As the citizenry degenerates, it will lose more and more.. as teh systems that were designed to be operated by trustworthy perople are coopted by pople who can no longer be trusted.
It's not the systems of trust that are flawed.. it's rotten American corruption of morality.
I know that will be an unpopular opinion hear, but I believe it to be the case
@|10.6.09 @ 6:53AM|#
"teh systems that were designed to be operated by trustworthy perople are coopted by pople"
That's just awesome.
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|10.6.09 @ 1:47PM|#
~ OUR U.S.CONGRESS AT LEAST DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE ~ THEY AFFORD POORER AMERICANS THE SAME EMERGENCY ONLY HEALTH*CARE THAT ILLEGAL ALIENS RECEIVE ~
AMERICA~LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT~ 45,000 DEAD POOR AMERICANS LEAVE U.S. EVERY*YEAR DUE TO 3rd WORLD HEALTH CONDITIONS ??
** POLITICS IN AMERICA IS VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN OUR MIDDLE~CLASS & WORKING POOR CITIZENS ARE ALL BEING FORCED 2 ALLOW BIG $$$ TO CONTROL THE PEOPLES HALLS OF THE U.S.CONGRESS..
~ SADLY, OUR VERY OWN AMERICAN HEALTH*CARE SATANIC VERSES HAS KEPT 45 MILLION POOR AMERICANS IN 3rd WORLD HEALTH CONDITIONS ~
DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY ~ THE WORLDS SELECT BILLIONAIRES AND THEIR
FRONT CORPORATIONS WILL ALL GET ON BOARD THE NEW HEALTH~TRAIN OF
$$$...**ADDING 45 MILLION MORE AMERICAN CITIZENS TO THE CURRENT
GIVEN PROFIT MARGINS + WITH A FUTURE AMNESTY PROGRAM
(6 months) AFTER NEXT U.S.PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION =
$$$$$$$$$.........
WEALTH~CARE FOR ALL THE HEAVILY INVESTED INTERNATIONAL AND AMERICAN BILLIONAIRES IN THE CURRENT U.S.HEALTH FOR THE WEALTHY ONLY SYSTEM WILL NOT END ANYTIME SOON... IT WILL ONLY BE RE~ARRANGED TO MAKE SURE ALL THESE MEGA CAPITALISTS PROSPER IN JUST ANOTHER FASHION .
THE FINE ART OF DENYING 45 MILLION AMERICANS HEALTH~CARE IN OUR JUDEO~CHRISTIAN NATION IS NOT RACIST AT ALL... IT'S JUST OUR BEHIND THE SCENE WEALTHY ELITE CITIZENS USING THEIR TREMENDOUS WEALTH TO DIRECTLY INFLUENCE OUR U.S. CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES IN KEEPING ALL THE little poor folk down *
AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS ALL ACROSS THE USA HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO COUNT ON THEIR RELIGIOUS FLOCK TO CONTRIBUTE(TITHE)THEIR HARD EARNED MONIES TO THEIR MINISTRIES EVERY WEEK. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES IN THE U.S. ARE MIDDLE~CLASS AND WORKING POOR CITIZENS WHO NOW DESPERATELY NEED THE HELP AND SUPPORT FROM THESE SAME U.S.RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN LOBBYING THE U.S.CONGRESS TO PROVIDE PROPER HEALTH~CARE FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS.
***THERE ARE CURRENTLY AN ESTIMASTED 45 MILLION MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN WITHOUT HEALTH~CARE IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD????
SILENT AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO ALL HAVE HEALTH~CARE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IS MUCH MORE FRIGHTENING THEN THE POSSIBLE DENIAL OF A FUTURE HEALTH~CARE PLAN FOR ALL...
**45,OOO AMERICANS DIE EACH YEAR IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR LACK OF PROPER HEALTH*CARE.
LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS
(424-247-2013)
|10.6.09 @ 3:58PM|#
Um, Douglas...I know you're a mindless retarded troll who doesn't know how to use the internet properly, but I'll bite anyway. If 45k people die each year in the wealthiest country in the world due to lack of healthcare, why didn't they pay some doctors to cure them? If they couldn't afford to pay, they should have been eligible for Medicaid. So, maybe they really died because they were stupid.
Tom|10.14.09 @ 5:20AM|#
I'm a healthcare provider; believe me... not having "healthcare" has a lot more to do with the shitty personal decisions people make than actual poor access. Oh and Douglas really is a Midless Retarded troll.
|10.6.09 @ 3:59PM|#
By the way, Squirrel, the new site still sucks. It took me three tries just to post that comment.
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