Musk Says He Bought Twitter 'To Help Humanity,' Pledges Not To Let It Become a 'Free-for-All Hellscape'

Plus: Charlottesville cracks down on city employee speech, judge dismisses "blackout challenge" lawsuit against TikTok, and more...

"The bird is freed." Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter is now official, and the Tesla CEO and world's richest man has already started making changes. Musk has reportedly fired some of the social media company's top executives.

"On Thursday night, Mr. Musk closed his $44 billion deal to buy the social media service," reports The New York Times. "He also began cleaning house, with at least four top Twitter executives — including the chief executive and chief financial officer — getting fired on Thursday."

"Twitter also is expected to become private Friday, dissolving its current board of directors and ending public trading of its stock," notes The Washington Post.

Musk has publicly pledged to make a number of changes, including restoring former President Donald Trump's account and making the site more open to diverging viewpoints.

Yesterday, Musk—who has been critical of the way Twitter "censored free speech"—tweeted "the bird is freed."

Musk also offered more in-depth commentary about his "motivation in acquiring Twitter," stating that the main reason "is because it is important to the future of civilization to have a common digital town square, where a wide range of beliefs can be debated in a healthy manner, without resorting to violence."

"There is currently great danger that social media will splinter into far right wing and far left wing echo chambers that generate more hate and divide our society," Musk continued. "In the relentless pursuit of clicks, much of traditional media has fueled and catered to those polarized extremes, as they believe that is what brings in the money, but, in doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is lost. That is why I bought Twitter."

Musk said he wasn't in it for the money but "to try to help humanity."

Dear Twitter Advertisers pic.twitter.com/GMwHmInPAS

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) October 27, 2022

 

 

He promised not to let Twitter become a "free-for-all hellscape, where anything can be said with no consequences!"

It will be interesting to see how Musk manages to walk the line between free speech and "free-for-all hellscape." There is certainly room for social media platforms to do a better job of this than they have been in recent years, as pressure from the government and activists has corresponded with crackdowns on a growing swath of content. But while many complaints about content moderation can surely be attributed to political pressure, part of the problem stems simply from the difficulties of trying to police a staggeringly massive level of activity.

"Sometimes it's difficult to get across to people 'the scale' part when we talk about the impossibility of content moderation at scale," as Mike Masnick wrote at Techdirt last year. "It's massive. And this is why whenever there's a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it's not personal. It wasn't done because someone doesn't like your politics. It wasn't done because of some crazy agenda. It was done because a combination of thousands of people around the globe and still sketchy artificial intelligence are making an insane number of decisions every day. And they just keep piling up and piling up and piling up."

That might not be true in high-profile cases, like with Trump, or the Hunter Biden laptop story, etc. But in general, much of what gets attributed to deliberate action and animosity is much more likely a product of technology, human error, or nonideological differences in human judgment happening at the lower levels of Twitter's power chain.

Musk can easily fix the high-profile cases, but the rest will be much more difficult.

And Musk's stated goal of making Twitter "the most respected advertising platform in the world" may also run into conflict with making it a haven for free speech. Companies are notoriously skittish about what content appears around their ads and have long tried to exert control over traditional media platforms (like magazines and TV stations) if content isn't to their liking.

Still, I'm excited—if not terribly optimistic about his chance of success—to see Musk try to effect some wide-scale change on Twitter.

---

FREE MINDS

Charlottesville cracks down on city employee speech. Charlottesville, Virginia, "effectively bars city employees from commenting as private citizens on a broad range of matters of public concern, including questions of community safety and governmental efficiency," warns the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE).

Under Charlottesville's new policy, employees must "refrain from conduct, on- and off-duty, that will undermine City government objectives or impair the proper performance of governmental functions." Barred conduct includes anything that interferes with "discipline or harmony among co-workers" or "undermines close working relationships that are essential to the effective performance of an employee's job duties."

These broad directives could allow city employees to be punished or fired for a wide range of speech and conduct. "The policy means that city employees now exercise their First Amendment rights at their own risk, even off the clock," suggests FIRE:

Under the policy's broad terms, city employees could now face discipline for speaking out on their own time—including criticizing dangerous or unsafe working conditions, disagreeing with biased or ineffective departmental decision-making, or simply voicing opinions their bosses don't like.

Let's say you're a city employee. Your boss and coworkers all have "Blue Lives Matter" bumper stickers on their cars. How comfortable will you be posting an invitation to a Black Lives Matter event on your Twitter account? Could that "impair harmony" with colleagues? It might, so you decide against it. The result: The policy has chilled your speech.

Or imagine you're a Charlottesville police officer. You're concerned that officers with little experience are receiving leadership roles. You voiced your concerns on Facebook—and now you've violated the personnel policy, even though you were discussing an issue that impacts community safety.

---

FREE MARKETS

Judge dismisses "blackout challenge" lawsuit against TikTok. A federal court has dismissed a lawsuit against TikTok brought by a parent whose daughter died of asphyxiation after attempting a "blackout challenge" she had seen people do in TikTok videos. The girl's mother, Tawainna Anderson, contended that TikTok and parent company ByteDance were liable because the app's "predatory and manipulative" algorithm "pushed exceedingly and unacceptably dangerous challenges."

Anderson's lawsuit echoes another suit against TikTok, which Reason's Joe Lancaster wrote about in July:

Earlier this month, the respective parents of two girls filed suit against social media platform TikTok and its parent company, ByteDance. According to the suit, the girls died while imitating behavior from videos that TikTok knew were dangerous and should have taken down. It asks for a jury trial and unspecified monetary damages….

Unique among platforms, TikTok features "challenges," in which users film themselves doing certain tasks or activities and then encourage others to do the same. Typically they will all use a unique hashtag to make the videos easily cataloged.

In this case, the parents allege that their children, an 8-year-old girl and a 9-year-old girl, each died while taking part in the "blackout challenge" in which participants film themselves holding their breath or asphyxiating until they pass out. In fact, in just over 18 months, at least seven children have died after apparently attempting the challenge.

Lancaster noted then:

Even if TikTok were directing dangerous content to people's FYPs, it's not clear whether the platform could be found legally liable at all. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act protects online services from legal liability for content posted by its users. While TikTok may host the videos, the law states that it cannot "be treated as the publisher or speaker" of any content provided by a user.

The lawsuit tries to circumvent this restriction by claiming that by offering images, memes, and licensed music that users can incorporate into their videos, "TikTok becomes a co-publisher of such content." This is a common misreading of Section 230: In fact, there is no distinction between a "publisher" and a "platform" in the eyes of the law. Besides, a platform cannot be the same as a user solely because it supplies the user with tools to make videos.

Anderson's lawsuit also tried to circumvent Section 230, stating that it was not seeking to hold TikTok "liable as the speaker or publisher of third–party content" but instead "to hold [them] responsible for their own independent conduct as the designers, programmers, manufacturers, sellers, and/or distributors" of the app and its algorithms.

Judge Paul S. Diamond of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania dismissed this argument. Anderson "cannot defeat Section 230 immunity…by creatively labeling her claims," wrote the judge. "Although Anderson recasts her content claims by attacking Defendants' 'deliberate action' taken through their algorithm…courts have repeatedly held that such algorithms are 'not content in and of themselves.'" More here.

---

QUICK HITS

• Yes, you can yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

• The U.S. economy grew sluggishly over the summer, per the latest government data. Gross domestic product rose 0.6 percent, for a 2.6 percent annual rate of growth.

• LOL: "San Francisco is considering softening a ban on publicly funded contracts and travel in 30 states that don't share its liberal values on issues such as abortion and transgender rights, as officials question whether the prohibition is having any effect beyond likely costing the city tens of millions of dollars."

• Colorado voters will get to decide whether to decriminalize psychedelics. "Colorado's Proposition 122 would decriminalize noncommercial activities related to the use of 'natural medicine' by adults 21 or older," notes Reason's Jacob Sullum. "It defines 'natural medicine' to include psilocybin, psilocyn (another psychoactive component of 'magic mushrooms'), dimethyltryptamine (DMT, the active ingredient in ayahuasca), ibogaine (a psychedelic derived from the root bark of the iboga tree), and mescaline (the active ingredient in peyote)."

• Facebook's fortunes continue to plummet:

MONOPOLY WATCH: "Meta Platforms was worth around $922 billion at the end of 2021, but is currently worth around $272 billion, a shocking 70-percent decline in less than 12 months." https://t.co/bcvo9pqXrV pic.twitter.com/BgrbD03WsR

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) October 27, 2022

• We're siccing anti-terrorism units on people who pay for sex now.

• "California will soon decriminalize jaywalking, which will do away with enforcement of a policy that critics say allows police to punish pedestrians with needlessly expensive fines, often in racially-motivated ways," writes Reason's Emma Camp.

• Giving massages without a license can get you felony criminal charges in New York.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter is now official...

Fascism imminent.

[JimboJr]

If the left has to hear an opinion that isn't curated to be 100% in compliance with their worldview, a fascism happened. We must pursue relentless silencing of others' views and speech to prevent fascism from happening.

That makes complete sense to the left.

[Don't look at me!]

Everyplace must be a safe place.m

[JimboJr]

and if we have to break everyones fingers so they cant type mean things, well...eggs, omelets

[evacore]

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[Rob Misek]

“It will be interesting to see how Musk manages to walk the line between free speech and "free-for-all hellscape."”

Simply criminalize lying.

[5.56]

Like the Germans do when somebody denies the holocaust, you irrelevant, whiny stormfag?

[DissapointedLion]

So you're one of those snowflakes who belives "d3 jUicE" are running a children's blood oligarchy.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO TELL PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR CRAZY PILLS?

[TheReEncogitationer]

Greetings, Disappointed lion! If you're new here, Rob Misek is our resident Holocaust Denier and easy pickings. Please point and laugh at your leasure. 🙂

[Rob Misek]

Not at all. If lying were criminalized then due process would require that any statement be refuted before being considered a lie.

If one thing is obvious, none of you have ever refuted the logic and science that I have provided to refute the bullshit holocaust story.

The following points refute key elements of the holocaust with logic and science. This is because all stories creating the holocaust narrative defy logic and science.

There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. Any activity that demonstrates and shares evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.

Jews have published books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging piles of gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.

But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it years later.

And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.

Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.

The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.

The story is told by one Jewish
survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.

She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.

They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.

Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.

There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.

There are military aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.

Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school

Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.

Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of.

Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?

The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.

The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.

Are you performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?

Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system used for years before the war employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.

Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.

Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.

According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.

Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.

If Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.

Which stupid lie is more believable? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.

Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. Only to coerce sympathy to raise money. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.

The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.

There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.

The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.

These Jewish leaders are admitting it. Are they lying?

“We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.

“The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”

Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.

The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.

[Ignore me!]

Rebuttal: GFY

[Rob Misek]

Hahaha. Pathetic.

[Rob Misek]

Jews and Nazis are very similar. In fact history shows that Jews have behaved worse for a much longer time.

Both part of satanic secret societies, Jews claim ownership of the Freemasons, Nazis the Thule society.

Nazis considered themselves the master race, Jews the chosen people.

In fact Nazism was the result of the behaviour of Jews.

What’s a Jew without the bullshit Nazi narrative?

Only what you can’t refute, above.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

The Holocaust is fully proven. Some shit article from another Nazi sympathizer wack job doesn’t disprove the mountain range of evidence to the contrary. Now toddle off and kill yourself.

[Rob Misek]

I’ve demonstrated how disproven it is.

Neither you nor anyone else has ever refuted anything that I’ve said.

[TheReEncogitationer]

With you as the Anti-Lügen Übersturmfuhrer, right?

Say, have you hired The Artist Formerly Known As Ye But Eternally Known As Shit to be your little SS Jackboot-Shine Boy?

At the rate he keeps going, he'll be reduced to doing pay-per-view bum fights with David Duke in the dying medium of cable TV! 🙂

Hi! Good Night and Fuck Off, Nazi!

[Rob Misek]

It looks like Musk and Misek are on the same page.

I like feeding bleating trolls what they can never refute and laughing when you choke.

Like I’m laughing at you now. Hahaha.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Well Musk makes shitty electric cars, appeases Putin's murderous aggression, and takes space junkets while subsidized by Taxpayers, so he's about as big a low-life as you and his $Billions don't change that!

Fuck Off, Musk and Fuck Off, Misek The Nazi!

[Rob Misek]

Sounds like sour grapes.

Regarding your feeble request. No. Hahaha.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

His posts were getting too long. Had to mute him.

[Rob Misek]

That bigotry button was made for you.

[Vernon Depner]

At 4:00 Misek will make all the evil people TWO FEET TALL.

[Overt]

"Everyplace must be a safe place.m"

His 'm' confuses and frightens me. BAN HIM!

[Zeb]

I'm pretty sure it's some kind of white supremacist dog whistle.

[HorseConch]

I only trust people that have twitter profiles alerting me that they are fighting fascism. Much like ANTIFA, nobody that self-identifies as being opposed to fascism could ever be a fascist.

[Ignore me!]

Only people identifying themselves as members of the Anti-Bad Guy League can guide us to the truth.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

It’s like ‘Wuv’.

[Utkonos]

I have to edit out that m thing all the time. Stupid phones!

[TheReEncogitationer]

Have you caught the CD Boxed Set of The Greatest Hits of M?
https://youtu.be/gPoiv0sZ4s4

It’s right next to the CD Boxed Set of The Greatest Hits of Gary Numan.
https://youtu.be/Im3JzxlatUs

As they say, blink and you’ll miss it! ?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And a pure place.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

That makes complete sense to the left.

Well, yeah, it's been the core of their ideology for about 20 years now, once the New Left finally took over academia:

"Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance: ... it would extend to the stage of action as well as of discussion and propaganda, of deed as well as of word...
The whole post-fascist period is one of clear and present danger.
Consequently, true pacification requires the withdrawal of tolerance before the deed, at the stage of communication in word, print, and picture. Such extreme suspension of the right of free speech and free assembly is indeed justified onlyif the whole of society is in extreme danger. I maintain that our society is insuch an emergency situation, and that it has become the normal state of affairs."

This isn't meant to be ironic. They actually believe this, and they act accordingly. That's why any opposition to them is deemed to be fascist, and eventually builds in to a massive backlash against them, because as marxists they believe in perpetual revolution and don't know when to back the fuck off.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That's why I find all the diversity, equity, and inclusion bullshit so annoying. Like good post-modern social Marxists, they use these words but mean things very different from what the rest of us think the words mean. In fact, you might be tempted to think they are speaking with intentional deceit.

[Utkonos]

This does indeed go back to Marx himself, a master hijacker of semantics.

[JimboJr]

"Such extreme suspension of the right of free speech and free assembly is indeed justified onlyif the whole of society is in extreme danger. I maintain that our society is insuch an emergency situation"

Funny that as brilliant as Sam Harris thinks himself to be, he essentially got baited into this line of thinking himself. You would think he would be familiar with this, as its been used by so many throughout history. He fell into the intended trap the progs set.

All you have to do is be duped into thinking that X bad thing is, in his words "a meteor headed toward earth", and then you can justify stripping any and every human right away, because after all, humanity/society is at stake. Any means necessary.

Every time they call someone a 'fascist' it wreaks of projection.

[TheReEncogitationer]

If Sam Harris, one of The Four Horsemen of Atheism, said this, he sure as Hell doesn't speak for me as a Libertarian Atheist who knows all-too-well the value off the Individual Right to free expression. If he were alive today, Christopher Hitches, a.k.a. The Hitch, would give Harris a right good Hitch-slapping over that.

[Mother's Lament]

If Hitchen's weren't already dead, they would have had to kill him.

[JimboJr]

"If Sam Harris, one of The Four Horsemen of Atheism, said this,"...

He argued that its OK to censor truth when the stakes are this high, because Trump getting democratically re-elected would be a 'meteor headed toward earth' event. People cant be allowed to know the truth because they might not make the correct choice, in his mind.

The more concerning words redrocks quoted I am fairly certain is Marcuse.

And new-Atheism would have probably tarred and feathered Hitchen's at this point, as its long been taken over by woke brainrot. Hitchen's was the old guard.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, it's from Marcuse's "Repressive Tolerance." I've quoted them here before because it's literally the keystone of the left's worldview now.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Well. really, New Atheism was a term used by an article in Wired Magazine to describe The Four Horsemen (Christopher Hitchen, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett.).

The arguments The Four Horsemen used weren't new, but classical ones dating to Pre-Socratic times, introduced to a new modern audience, and applied to the Post-9/11 world. (Might I add, the arguments are as valid today as in the days of the Pre-Socratics.)

The Woke rot came later with the Atheism + Movement, whose writings conspicuously have little to no Atheist content and much more Social Justice Warrior/Radical Feminist/Intersectionality shit. This is the group that attacked Dawkins over Elevatorgate and attacked Harris over questions of I.Q. and "Race."

I have had rumbles with Atheism + types on another Forum and I think I even encountered a precursor on Mailing Lists in the Nineties. Yeah, Atheism +-ers are real assholes.

[Truthfulness]

Deus vult!

[JimboJr]

"The Woke rot came later with the Atheism + Movement"

Ya I guess this is what I was referring to. Was thinking about calling it new, new atheism. Regardless, its the dominant cancer of the movement, as the progs are to the US as a whole.

And its telling that Harris has fallen into their trap, as Trump broke his brain so hard he just cant come back. So many bad things in history happened because someone justified it as "listen, it would be nice to have these freedoms, but X is an existential threat" and there was a time that the intellectuals of atheism would have easily understood this threat. But still, someone in as high regard as Harris falls for the lunacy that so many sub 100 IQ folks fall for every day.

[Truthfulness]

Both wokism and so-called new atheism are rooted in Marxism and should have no influence upon society.

[Ignore me!]

No probably about it, tarred and feathered for sure. These cretins would have no love for Hitch.

[Ignore me!]

The emergency, conveniently, never ends.

[Moonrocks]

Twitter's Private Company status: revoked.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

We joke, but a I guarantee Cabinet Secretaries have people going through Musk's files at the Justice, Labor, Homeland Security, Commerce, and Defense looking for anything they can use against him.

As someone pointed out the other day, Frum's article arguing that Starlink needed to be nationalized was a warning shot from the Cathedral to Musk that being a Made Man is not going to protect him, and that he better not go too far off the reservation or he'll get whacked.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

We could hope that Musk's Dr. Evil alter-ego has prepared some surprises, like Starling satellites that turn into space lasers.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're already giving Bezos a heads-up that Musk's DoD contracts for satellite launches could be up for grabs.

[rbike]

Brazos hasn’t been to orbit yet. Not even close. Just burning cash for ???? When your mission statement is slow, purposeful advancement (turtle logo) you can justify any expense and delay in operation. And Bezos has hired a lot of people willing to move slowly. Like NASA today. Sad.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

I didn't know musk was jewish

[Utkonos]

Or is he?
https://www.sajr.co.za/ever-wondered-if-they-re-jewish/

[TheReEncogitationer]

Ve-e-e-e-e-ry interesting! But who is this Mpho Phalatse Mo-Fo? 😉

[TheReEncogitationer]

Perhaps Kurt Waldheim, Jr. could answer that question on the old "Who Is The Jew" feature of "The Howard Stern Show."

[DissapointedLion]

I guess attaching the lasers to shark's heads was too espensive...

Musk is a cheapskate.

[ElvisIsReal]

They are already going after him

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/elon-musk-under-federal-investigation-tied-twitter-deal-twitter-court-filing-2022-10-13/

Elon Musk is being investigated by federal authorities over his conduct in his $44 billion takeover deal for Twitter Inc (TWTR.N), the social media company said in a court filing released on Thursday.

While the filing said he was under investigations, it did not say what the exact focus of the probes was and which federal authorities are conducting them.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Probably something about not obeying the democrat party. But that part might be in invisible ink.

[Eeyore]

I think it would be amusing if he Twitter break the algorithm that forces people into bubbles, so they see opinions they don't really want to.

[DissapointedLion]

One one hand, echo chambers no more. Huge improvement as we can hope radicals would be softened and unradicalized.

On the other, no, I don't fucking believe in your astrology BULLSHIT, and if it's not Final Fantasy related I don't want to hear the words "crystal" and "healing" in the same breath.

[John C. Randolph]

I saw some idiot on twitter just now call Michael Malice a fascist. That's about like calling Kim Jong-Un anorexic.

Lefturds have no idea what "fascist" even means.

-jcr

[TheReEncogitationer]

If he allows these great stories below on Twitter, we'll know for sure he's not a Woke Fascist:

Replay: Verdict for Darrell Brooks trial in Waukesha Christmas Parade
https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/waukesha/news/waukesha/2022/10/26/darrell-brooks-verdict-livestream-of-waukesha-parade-trial-decision/69592751007/

Saying “Da JHVH-1 made me do it!” Won’t help either, Thank The Void!

‘My conscience is clear’: Waukesha killer Darrell Brooks says it was ‘God’s will’ that massacre happened
During the closing argument, Darrell Brooks, 40, said that he never asked himself if ‘this’ was intentional because he knows it wasn’t
By Jenny Anna Mathew
Updated On : 19:07 PST, Oct 25, 2022
https://meaww.com/waukesha-parade-killer-darrell-brooks-says-it-was-gods-will-massacre-happened-closing-argument

Damnit! What's up with Reason and The Commentariat! It's been 3 days now and NO ONE has anything to say about the Darrell Brooks verdict in Waukesha? After going on non-stop about Kyle Rittenhouse?? What the Hell, Man?!?

[Mike Laursen]

Definitely being discussed on Twitter. I just saw several tweets, and not from leftist perspective, either.

[Libertariantranslator]

Another Robert Dear busted for murdering as a conscript in the Army of God. So the Grabbers of Pussy lost a sojer. Their loss is humanity's gain.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

This is one of your dumbest and most unaware posts yet, Hank, and that's saying something.

[Doug1943]

So now believers in free speech, if they are not on Twitter, should join immediately. And everyone should get all their friends to join. The ThoughtPolice would like to see Twitter's user-base decline ... we need to make it go up. [And while you're on there, follow me at @Doug1943, and I'll follow you back.]

[R Mac]

I actually signed up when he first announced he was buying it.

[blardo]

Fuck Trump, Biden, and all the other status quo big-government politicians. Fuck everyone who supports them.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Happy hour's not for another 8 hours yet.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

What does fucking have to do with happy hour?

[Uilleam]

Your idea of happy hour doesn't seem very fun.

[R Mac]

Everything?

[Dace Highlander]

It's definitely not about holding muh beer!

[Mike Laursen]

Agreed, but what brought this on?

[Don't look at me!]

LOL!

[Brandybuck]

Someone finally realized Trump wasn't actually their personal savior? I've been saying Fuck Trump for years. And fuck Biden, and DeSantis, and Newsom, and fuck whatever fucker runs your state and blardo's state and everyone in congress. Hell, fuck everyone down to the level of municipal dogcatcher.

[Unable2Reason]

Since we're fucking all these people, maybe we need a hook-up culture?

[DesigNate]

Nobody that post here thinks that.

[Super Scary]

Well, people think that people here think that and that is just as bad as actually thinking that. Sometimes even worse!

[Mother's Lament]

It's Brandybuck's "reality" and who are we to question it.

[Uilleam]

We used to have a term describing a conflict between what a person thinks and reality.

[R Mac]

Ableist!

[Utkonos]

You know who else ended up with a wee bit of a gap between what he thought and the actual reality surrounding him?

[Hank Ferrous]

More or less the definition of strawman...

[JesseAz]

One you say daily. The others you say as an aside when you get called a leftist. Totes equal.

[R Mac]

Fuck Brandyshit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He also began cleaning house, with at least four top Twitter executives — including the chief executive and chief financial officer — getting fired on Thursday.

One can only imagine the payroll savings from that alone.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The best news of this is that head of legal policy, trust, and safety Vijaya Gadde (aka head censoring asshole) was fired and is no longer at Twitter. Fuck her and the jackass she rode in on. I hope the door didn't just hit her ass on the way out, I hope it knocked her off her feet.

[JesseAz]

The war against successful women continues.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Her turn is over.

[Utkonos]

Tarts like her deserve high turnover!

[TheReEncogitationer]

Don't let her turn over on me! 🙂

[Ignore me!]

She didn't make the saving throw anyway.

[Mr. Bumble]

Unfortunately they all left with a pretty substantial payday.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Might not be a bad thing, if she uses that money to stay the fuck away.

[Moonrocks]

Since when do religious zealots stay the fuck away?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

When communist dictatorships demand it. Unfortunately our current communist dictatorship still probably see her as useful.

[Commenter_XY]

I found that move - canning the four C-Suite execs - 'Positively Karmic'. I wonder if Elon did the deed himself, personally - and fired them.

[R Mac]

While still holding the sink…

[Uilleam]

One can hope.

[John C. Randolph]

They might be collecting massive fuck-off fees. The WSJ mentioned a figure of $100M for the three most incompetent executives to ever fuck a company up in Silicon Valley.

-jcr

[PatriciaBuchman]

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??? ???? ????.????…….>>> Topcitypay

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The U.S. economy grew sluggishly over the summer, per the latest government data. Gross domestic product rose 0.6 percent, for a 2.6 percent annual rate of growth.

While inflation rages at 8%. Buttplug most butthurt.

[Mr. Bumble]

Funny how most of the reporting touts the annualized rate rather than the monthly rate, which is pretty weak and probably will be revised downward after the election.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The dipshit (Buttplug) tried to claim it isn't stagflation yesterday. Never mind that this is the very definition of stagflation.

[Don't look at me!]

The definitions have been altered. Pray I don’t alter them further.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Darth Insidious aka Joe Biden.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

I thought he was Darth Retard?

[Uilleam]

Darth Bidet

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

What about the chocolate ration?

[Uilleam]

It has been raised to 20 grams a week comrade!

[Utkonos]

Goes great with Victory Coffee!!

[TheReEncogitationer]

And gin with cloves. Winston Smith's favorite!

[TheReEncogitationer]

Can't forget cubes of cheese to go with the chocolate... as long as you keep Switzerland in the Memory Hole.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Stagflation is a period of stagnant economic growth accompanied by persistently high inflation and a sharp rise in unemployment.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/stagflation/

You prove your idiocy every day.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Oh, and speak of the devilish pedophile. Here's the asshole himself.

You seem to have missed the fact that a fairly large number of people just dropped out of the statistics and aren't even looking for a job anymore. If included, they'd be part of a higher unemployment number than the "official" unemployment numbers. As usual, you're full of shit, but then again, a buttplug would be full of shit.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

I recall when Fatass Donnie posted a quarterly GDP number of 2.6% he bragged his ass off:

"We have a GDP, on Friday -- it got very little mention, although I guess in the business areas it did. But it got, I think, very little mention. 2.6 is a number that nobody thought they'd see for a long period of time.... And 2.6 is an unbelievable number, announced on Friday."

His Cultists were always 'TRUMP HAS THE STRONGERST ECONOMY IN HISTRY" !!!!!

2.6 was one of his BEST numbers. But you propagandists kept yelling the same worshipful shit.

Now you fucking retarded cultists are singing a different tune.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yes, because using all caps at differing times really bolsters your argument.

You do know that inflation was about 1% when Trump boasted about a GDP increase of 2.6%. You fail Econ 101, basic math, and life yet again today.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

He’s also a liar who fucks kids and gets off on watching other people fuck kids.

[DesigNate]

You pulled this same shit under Obama. Completely ignoring whenever the numbers got revised down and claiming strongest economy ever!

People aren’t as dumb as you and can actually notice the world around them. But then, you’re a demfag piece of shit.

[R Mac]

A pedophile, a racist, and a liar walk into a bar.

The bartender says: What’ll you have, shrike?

[Overt]

A few years back SPB posted kiddy porn to this site, and his initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead SPB keeps showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get him to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate, and link to the evidence of his wrongdoing.

https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836

Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.

[perlmonger]

I say mute him. Nobody should dignify anything he says with a response.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

I enjoy constantly pointing out that he’s a proven pedophile.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And you deserve the Full Rosenbaum, you hicklib pederast.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

The average voter does not give a rat's ass about the GDP. They care about how much things cost.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Any democrat trying to use GDP numbers to convince people the economy is good shows how out of touch they are.

Please keep touting the GDP and ignore inflation, it will lead to republican victories.

[BestUsedCarSales]

One thing that's interesting to consider is how Republicans will react to this. I think signs are getting pretty bad for at least a few years, and Republicans won't be able to obviously change that over any short-term amount of time. A lot of our issues are infrastructural and are things like the pandemic ending. Things that take time to resolve.

I have no idea though, I'm very unclear on what, if anything, Republicans have planned to do any time soon.

[Idaho Bob]

I have to protest the "8%" number. Everything I buy is up 20-30% (gasoline is 2X) over the last year.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I think that's just "core" inflation, not including fuel and food.

[Moonrocks]

Just redefine "inflation" and it magically disappears!

[Marshal]

It worked for illegal aliens.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

We should declare all the democrats dead. At least legally. Then they aren’t eligible for any government services or support. Plus their stuff can be taken.

[Eeyore]

Fuel and food are not core. Lol.

[Utkonos]

I was thinking the same thing.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Maybe ya'll digest through the skin, but food is in my core. 🙂

[Griffin3]

Wait until you have to buy heating oil. Mwu-ha-ha-ha!

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Already seen it with natural gas.

[Fats of Fury]

My gas bill tripled from last month, with a small increase in use.
Fuck Joe Biden, this is directly on his head.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

On that note, what are we supposed to do when they cut off NG? The same assholes eliminating petroleum products pushed millions of people onto NG furnaces for decades. How is that going to work?

These people are clearly not deep thinkers. No wonder we’re advancing headlong into a nuclear war.

[Mike Laursen]

Thank goodness heating oil isn’t a thing in Idaho or anywhere out west.

[R Mac]

Cite?

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

He’s not wrong for once. I’m in eastern WA and oil furnaces are rare. I had a rental that originally had one, but it was switched out to a gas furnace decades before I bought the place. The only reason I was even aware of this was because the tank was still present. Had to cut it up and remove it since took up some space.

Most people here have FAG furnaces (something to get Tony excited). So if the democrats are allowed to persist that will become a nightmare too. With no solution.

[Uilleam]

Mike really is this dumb.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Do a search for heating oil in Iowa.

I found five heating oil dealers in Iowa.

[Claptrap]

Midwest isn't out west. Have you ever even seen a map?

[Idaho Bob]

There are two heating oil dealers in the Idaho panhandle.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Then why does it have ‘west’ as a descriptor? Is it not considered the middle of the Western United States?

By your definition only the west coast would be West. Idaho would have to go.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It dates to when the Midwest was the Northwest Territory (pre-1803). As "West" was pushed, well, further west, it became the Midwest.

[Claptrap]

It's Mike's definition, I'm just running with his smug sense of superiority.

To me anything past Philadelphia is "out west."

[Mike Laursen]

The concept of what was "west" kept chaining as America was settled.

[R Mac]

Your initial comment about heating oil was still stupid.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

I live in WA, we don’t consider Iowa as part of the west.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Go look up how they get the 8% number, it's just a grab bag of items over a larger swath of things. You can find the definition, and argue over the use of it (people in fact do, because food inflation is different). It's worth reading about though.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

As butthurt as the boys on the Little League team he coaches?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yes, you can yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

But can you yell COVID?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That'll get your state shut down if you have a Democrat for a governor.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Not the way the ones currently campaigning are telling it.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

That was Republicans, especially DeathSantis. They're also the ones defunding the police. Any suggestion otherwise is dangerous misinformation.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

You can
They can then call you a domestic terrorist

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Sure, but you can't yell "vaccines don't work as claimed!"

[ElvisIsReal]

Then they will explain that nobody ever once said that vaccine would stop the spread.

[DissapointedLion]

Then why can't I point out Akira Toriyama's business with Jeffrey Epstein?

[Fist of Etiquette]

The U.S. economy grew sluggishly over the summer...

Who knew that the strongest economy ever could be had so quickly via slow motion.

[Griffin3]

I’m with zerohedge on this one. The numbers are going to be quietly revised downward after the midterms. The growth is a lie.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Actually, since most of the "growth" is an export/import surplus (and most of the exports are oil and gas), it's already a lie, in what most people might think of as GDP growth.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...as officials question whether the prohibition is having any effect beyond likely costing the city tens of millions of dollars.

No one said virtue was cheap for taxpayers.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Colorado voters will get to decide whether to decriminalize psychedelics.

Lack of adequate oxygen isn't enough?

[Don't look at me!]

That’s the reason they are thinking about it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, it's easier to get high when you're high!

[A Thinking Mind]

He promised not to let Twitter become a "free-for-all hellscape, where anything can be said with no consequences!"

Man, could you imagine such a world? I'm glad we've got so many wise people protecting us from things other people say.

[Griffin3]

Hell scape, hoo ha ha!

[mad.casual]

New list of 'greatest tricks':
1. The First Amendment
2. Convincing the world he didn't exist
3. Convincing the world that even if he did exist, he's the good guy

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Convincing the world he didn't exist.
Admitting to the world that he does exist but it's not as bad as you say.
Convincing the world that not only does he exist, but his existence is the very definition science and healthcare.

[mad.casual]

Convincing the world that not only does he exist, but his existence is the very definition science and healthcare.

Immaculate zoonotic conception™ - Dibs!

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Goddammit, am I finally gonna have to watch that movie now?

[CE]

4. Orange face

[Brandybuck]

Gosh, sounds like the Commentariat.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

You just have a sad when people here don’t tolerate your nonsense. Although admittedly, you’re only a third level leftist.

[Uilleam]

Ya but he's right on the line between 3rd and 2nd level.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

He needs more wokie xp’s to level up. Maybe an antifa riot raid run would push him up a level.

[Mother's Lament]

A CNN+ subscriber, an Atlantic reader, a midwit, a bien pensant, a Mourning Joe acolyte.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

He still has that veneer of civility. The mask isn’t completely off yet. So perhaps he maintains some delusions about being ‘neutral’.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We're siccing anti-terrorism units on people who pay for sex now.

Gotta go where the work is.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Every unlicensed BJ threatens national security.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

It does in Hunter Biden’s case.

[Anomalous]

Giving massages without a license can get you felony criminal charges in New York.

This really rubs me the wrong way.

[Mr. Bumble]

No happy ending for you.

[Don't look at me!]

Came here to say it.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I came too.

[Don't look at me!]

This guy gets it.

[R Mac]

It’s cum all the way down.

[Griffin3]

I have been showing my sons the "Crime Squad" video series, about enforcing all these dumb laws (with puppets!). Makes a bigger impression than just telling people about them.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

You know what else people have demonstrated with puppets?

[R Mac]

The holocaust?

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

But… but…… Gruppenfuhrer Misek has decreed there was no Holocaust. He linked some obscure article from someone nobody has ever heard of that counters the massive amount of records, eyewitness accounts, and forensic videmce.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

A lack of self worth?

[Quicktown Brix]

Statler and Waldorf as role models for Reason's commenters?

[TheReEncogitationer]

I always wanted to be like them when I grew up...and I still do! 🙂

[Benitacanova]

What it's like Being John Malkovich?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Sigh. Imma be watching old movies all weekend.

[Hank Ferrous]

Pfft. Unless it's problematic low-budget exploitation, why? I offer up Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS.

[Fist of Etiquette]

California will soon decriminalize jaywalking...

For non-protestors?

[Griffin3]

For non conservative protestors.

[Hank Ferrous]

The important question is, will CA 'decriminalize' the unavoidable or unintentional motorist-pedestrian collisions that are likely to increase? If the state permits pedestrian crossing at any point on any street, then the state is responsible in part for accidents involving pedestrians not in crosswalks. That's my take anyhow.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

You left out skin color.

[Hank Ferrous]

Or media/progressive talking points, though less important than skin color. For example, the dickhead in Charlottesville didn't ram the crowd. He hit a car that hit a car, that hit the crowd. Still a dickhead, but if anybody other than somebody the left hated were involved, the point would have been important.

[Sansos]

Hilariously jay walking is one of the safest ways to cross a street because pedestrians actually pay attention to the traffic.

[Hank Ferrous]

Generally true. Pedestrians do seem to believe that the laws of physics are superseded by their feelings. I find this is also true of people w/ tiny vehicles who cut off large trucks.

[DissapointedLion]

As a pedestrian who actually takes their time to check there's no 1-3 Metric tons worth of metal/plastic/glass/human flesh coming my way (barring the very few times I was dumb enough to forget about it), I feel a strange lack of being offended.

The fact I have at least a grasp on Newton's 2nd law of motion helps though.

[Truthfulness]

You're letting your feelings get to you and you've forgotten about it.

[I, Woodchipper]

I have no problem holding pedestrians liable for collisions that occur outside crosswalks and ALSO not giving out jaywalking tickets.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

For homeless meth addicts, because they're the only ones doing it.

[Utkonos]

So THAT’S why the chicken crossed the road!

[TheReEncogitationer]

A chicken on meth would be self-beheading, assuming it wasn’t chasing Lilliputian Critical Mass-holes who used Preparation-H. 🙂

[TheReEncogitationer]

Speaking of, you know who else experimented with meth on his troops?

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Decriminalize? Not legalize?

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

MSNBC's O'Donnell Compares John Fetterman to FDR & Winston Churchill

[InsaneTrollLogic]

O'Donnell is delusional.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

He must have stroked out too

[JimboJr]

Kamala and Joe going to campaign with Fetterman after his disastrous performance.

Between the current POTUS, VP, and a potential future Senator, they cant put a coherent sentence together.

Fuck ill take Trump's ramblings back. At least they were funny.

[Moonrocks]

The fellating from our state media is making North Korean state media blush.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It really is fucking incredible how desperate these people are to get this broke-brain sasquatch in to one of the highest offices in the land. It's almost like they know he'll be a rubber stamp for whatever the Dems put in front of him.

I seriously fucking laughed when I saw he wore the exact same outfit for his debate that he did for his meeting with Biden. You couldn't get your daddy to spend another $5 on a tie from Goodwill, you useless mooch?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Be fair. For people with mental impairment, change is hard. They can be more comfortable with a wardrobe filled with identical pants, shirts, shoes, etc.

[Quicktown Brix]

AAhh, that explains my closet.

Einstein wore the same clothes everyday too. I was hoping I'd pop out a unified field theory one day, but your explanation makes more sense.

[Quicktown Brix]

"It really is fucking incredible how desperate these people are to get this broke-brain sasquatch in to one of the highest offices in the land."

Also true for republicans with their carpetbagger phony crook. But I'm sure he wears the finest taylored suits that scammed money can buy.

No good choice here, but I'll give a 50.00001% to Oz for being the opposition party.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

"carpetbagger phony crook" Is Hillary running on the Repub ticket there?

[Mike Laursen]

Hmm, Trump and Hillary Clinton used to be buds. Let's go with their both being carpetbaggers!

[R Mac]

Fucking idiot, you can’t be a carpetbagger running for president.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Ableist!

[Quicktown Brix]

"Is Hillary running on the Repub ticket there?"

Well, both fit the description. And they agreed on most issues before Oz red-pilled while crossing the Delaware river for the primaries. Oprah must be kicking herself for making him famous now.

[CE]

When your baseline is Harris and Buttigieg, the bar of perceived competence gets a bit blurred.

[Hank Ferrous]

For a good chuckle, read through Volokh's open comments thread yesterday. The suggestion that fetterman is less than capable is due to partisan bias. The idea that the Senate is a place where debate occurs is wrong, and based in partisan bias. The usual suspects there are gaslighting, misusing terms, and accusing others of the things they are doing. Damned good time.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Funny how any criticism of Fetterman, regardless of the circumstance, amounts to "Republicans are cruel."

If the left didn't have double standards, it wouldn't have any at all, but it's useful to understand that they'll always have an excuse or a complaint, and that they're always shifting the goalposts. It saves a lot of time and frustration to simply treat their assertions as illegitimate and disingenuous from the get-go.

[DesigNate]

Some of our erstwhile posters are confused by this.

[R Mac]

Mike Liarson is a squawking bird named Dee and should be treated as such?

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

I’ve started imagining Mike as a more political Deandra Reynolds.

[R Mac]

Ding ding ding!

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Then the correct response is always “Dee! You bitch!”

[Hank Ferrous]

This one of the more prolific VC commenter's go-to comments now. 'No changing goalposts.' Same guy that aggressively changes goalposts with every comment, more or less, when he (?) is losing the argument. Comical doesn't begin to describe the place. Lurking there is a guilty pleasure.

[Commenter_XY]

I started that thread, Hank. Personally, I find the mocking of Fetterman to be degrading. That is wrong. To be sure, Fetterman should have dropped out in May, before the primary and Team D could have put in a party candidate. He did not, and they did not. What a f'ing mess. Fetterman will likely lose based on the HORRIBLE debate performance. However, 500K Team D people have already voted by mail.

And here we are in American society....corroding our national spirit watching people mock Fetterman for his condition. And treating it like an entertaining blood sport.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Something about Americans confusing politics, religion, and sports.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Personally, I find the mocking of Fetterman to be degrading.

It might be degrading, but the fact is that he's persisting in continuing his election run, and that speaks volumes about his lust for political power, and the venality of those in his orbit to continue the dumb charade that he has all his mental faculties. Like with Biden, the DNC could have done the decent thing and not run a neurologically deficient individual for the office. But since that's the route they're taking and Biden and Fetterman are going along with it, they deserve all the mockery they're getting.

If it's degrading, the problem is entirely self-inflicted. Nothing wrong with feeling bad for the guy, but that doesn't mean he should be in position to be a US Senator.

[R Mac]

^

[Commenter_XY]

Red, you're right. He is persisting. That bothers me.

And yes, I completely agree this is his choice. But no, I don't want to see him mocked and degraded; I do not want that for any human being. The man should get well, and try again in a few years.

[R Mac]

He had horrible beliefs before the stroke. Why do you want him running again later?

[Commenter_XY]

He would be defeated, easily.

[R Mac]

Fair.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Totally understand. The right thing to do, for his family if nothing else, would have been to pull out and let Conor Lamb or some other party hack take over, so he could rest and try to recover. A stroke is nothing to brush off, and the likelihood he's going to work himself into another one is getting pretty high.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Progressives and marxists deserve to be degraded

[perlmonger]

I promise I'll stop mocking him as soon as he stops being on TV trying to have a direct say in how my life gets run. Until then, the sawdust headed golem is still lumberingly waltzing about on the live-fire range.

[ElvisIsReal]

Seems reasonable.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

He was a malignant Marxist shitweasel long before his stroke.

[Hank Ferrous]

XY, agreed, but the response to you was what I am commenting about, not your points. There were, and are ways of stating that fetterman is less than capable that are not rooted in bias. Period. This was denied. Period. These points were made; there was also some mockery, some of which was unkind. Say what you will, fetterman has a history of being a douchebag. He has had a stroke, and deserves a bit of sympathy as he tries to cope with recovery. But not for anything else. This is more or less the level of give and take at VC between the anointed and the unclean. There is a toxic culture at VC, much like on any social media platform. And much like the social media platforms, those who are the worst offenders are the folks who claim to be the most interested in the rights of others.

[Commenter_XY]

Hank, yeah you are right about that = responses. I made the point that Fetterman cannot do the job of a Senator on medical grounds. Simply put, the ability to speak extemporaneously in a coherent manner is an absolute requirement for a Senator. The ability to communicate with verbal nuance is a requirement for a Senator, especially when communicating with foreign leaders (which Senators do). It is not partisan politics to correctly point out that Mr. Fetterman is not able to do either.

I feel pity for this man, because he is being mocked for his condition. That should not happen. The right thing to do would have been to drop out in May, prior to the primary, and have Team D pick their candidate. It is a highly unusual circumstance; Team D would be within their rights to put in a party candidate. That did not happen.

Fetterman will lose the vote on November 8th, but may still win. A number of people who watched that debate debacle will change their votes. That said, there are already 500K mail-in Team D ballots in the bank. They've been returned.

And the election officials are already saying it will take a week to count the votes. A week. Think about that one. You think maybe some extra ballots are gonna be 'found' after November 8th? 🙂

[Fist of Etiquette]

You go to war with the army you have.

[perlmonger]

"John Fetterman isn't fit to visit the graves of FDR or Churchill. No, we mean that literally, the stroke impacts his ability to travel. Whereas FDR was a wily, manipulative crook, and Churchill a drunken oaf, Fetterman is just a literally brain damaged semi-vegetable."

See, comparisons are possible.

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

For the times, they are a-changing...

The cable show that has **the largest audience of younger Democrats** -- meaning self-identified Democrats between the ages of 24-54 -- is... the Tucker Carlson Show

[A Thinking Mind]

You can't deny the power of hate-watching.

How many conservatives watch Joy Reid, or The Young Turks? I'm genuinely curious.

[Mother's Lament]

I can predict a Young Turks take with 100% accuracy.

[Moonrocks]

Pretty much this. Probably one of the reasons Tucker Carlson is so popular is because he presents topics that you won't find anywhere else in the mainstream media.

[HorseConch]

It's good to know that the largest single group of young democrats are at least seeking varied opinions and news. I'm sure that's a small sliver, but better than not.

[Nardz]

Almost nobody?

[damikesc]

Based on ratings, for Joy Reid --- not many.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Maybe one or two.

[R Mac]

Who?

[perlmonger]

I can deny it. 😉 Mostly because I can't do it. I flat out cannot watch blithering morons or screeching harpies or blithering, screeching, moronic harpies, for that matter.

I mean, I know people do it, but I don't understand how. Something about it just grates me really badly. Maybe I'm just too coddled by the ability to change the channel these days.

*shrug*

[JimboJr]

there is a reason Tony comes on here spouting "IS THAT WHAT TUCKER TOLD YOU TO THINK?!?!"

I think he might be one of the only people in the comments that actually watches Fox/Tucker

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I suspect half of Fox's audience is just shitlibs hate-watching.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Well, it's clear that none of them are watching CNN

[damikesc]

Only FNC show I routinely watch is Gutfeld. Everything else is hella sporadic at best.

[Dakotian]

Same here. And that's mostly because I was a fan of RedEye.

[John C. Randolph]

Seems like every time I gainsay some stupid shit coming from an NPC's mouth, they accuse me of watching Fox News, as if "Fox News" is a magic incantation that negates any fact I happen to cite.

NPCs really can't conceive of anyone coming to their own conclusions instead of taking marching orders from a Zampolit like they do.

-jcr

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Tony masturbates to Tucker’s show daily. He’s always raving about him here.

[JesseAz]

We're siccing anti-terrorism units on people who pay for sex now.

J6 parades were there to pay hookers? I guess congress people are essentially whores. So I'll allow it.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

ENB was also fine with the FBI going after parents who attend school board meeting. But now that hookers are involved, fbi bad

[Overt]

” And this is why whenever there’s a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it’s not personal. It wasn’t done because someone doesn’t like your politics. It wasn’t done because of some crazy agenda.”

Uh, no.

If this were written in 2020, I might have chided ENB with a statement like, “Well that didn’t age well.” But we know now that a lot of the censoring going on in social media WAS personal. It WAS Politics. It WAS a crazy agenda pushed by the government. ENB should pause a few minutes to actually, you know, read the articles that Reason posted on the matter.

If there is one thing that is painfully clear, it is that Masnick has proven himself to be completely wrong. His entire theory was that what conservatives saw as biased moderation was really good old fashioned moderation at scale. But we know now this was wrong. It isn’t automation. It is actual manipulation by the government and liberal elites who weaponized the scaled systems to advance their political agendas.

Back 2 years ago, Masnick was a great voice for Lefties like ENB who ostensibly support free discourse to excuse what was clearly a liberal censoring bias. When Musk first went to buy Twitter, Masnick provided exactly the semi-credible techno-babble to allow Good Thinking Bluechecks the ability to both support private actors, and defend liberal censorship as “necessary”.

But we know that isn’t the case any more. We know through FOIA requests that the Federal and State governments have been deeply involved in pushing the censorship of content- both political and other- to support their agendas. What Masnick wrote has indeed not aged well. But for ENB to reprint it without saying “And he was 100% off base” is just terrible, bad journalism.

[A Thinking Mind]

It was propaganda that the government outsourced to private actors under government orders. It was fascism, the very thing we've been told to be on guard for for the past 6+ years. Large platforms serving as an arm of the government to spread government propaganda.

The first clue should been when they were censoring people who wanted to say that COVID was made in a lab. That was well over two years ago, now, it was early in 2020 when that started. The agenda was naked and obvious even then. All the extra stuff about government participation in it is just the floodgates opening on what we already knew was going on.

[Overt]

"It was propaganda that the government outsourced to private actors under government orders."

I liken it to the Christian Apologists who are constantly trying to push Intelligent Design. ENB goes back to Masnick again and again because his is the only pasta of liberal apologia thrown against the wall that has sorta stuck. Unfortunately his techno-babble and conjecture have all expired over the past few months.

I spent an hour or so reading through a bunch of Masnick's posts, and it is clear that he is hell bent on pushing this notion of "Twitter/Facebook/Google are just dealing with a very hard problem, and if they didn't, why the entire internet would be one big 4Chan!" The comments are full of gaslighters who will insist that the Biden Laptop story wasn't ACTUALLY censored, or if it was, it was just for a few hours while the algorithms settled. (This only works if they memory hole the fact that the NYP account was locked so that they couldn't respond to criticism.)

I don't think that it is necessarily a Propaganda effort set by the government. There are millions of hack writers out there looking for a hook to get their shit viral. There are millions of hack Bluechecks out there retweeting and sharing- always looking for the message that will stick when thrown against the wall. Masnick was good for that until it was revealed just how much the government was driving moderation, and how much people at these companies were bending over backwards to support it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Masnick demonstrated in real time that he's a colossal fucking poser when it comes to internet freedom, and is just another regime shill. Amazing how one of their Made Men acting just a little bit heterdox instead of spouting the same banal regime-approved catchphrases is suddenly a threat to all of democracy.

If anything, the reaction to this by the nation's power institutions is elegant proof that they are all acting in the specific interest of the Democratic party and its agenda. Literally nothing they say can be taken at face value because it's all in service to the DNC. This isn't something that can be resolved with any kind of legislative or even democratic solution, because they won't respect it anyway if they come out on the losing end.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

” The comments are full of gaslighters who will insist that the Biden Laptop story wasn’t ACTUALLY censored, or if it was, it was just for a few hours while the algorithms settled.

Like how the algorithms never 'settled' on the Steele Dossier.

[R Mac]

“The comments are full of gaslighters who will insist that the Biden Laptop story wasn’t ACTUALLY censored,”

Mike Liarson comments on Masnick’s articles?

[BestUsedCarSales]

Also, as someone who uses 4chan still, it's on average better than Twitter. People keep saying this shit, when they're really thinking of basically two parts of the website. /b/ (random) and /pol/ (politics) which are cesspits. And even then I wouldn't say they're dramatically worse than twitter, they're in a similar category of noise making device.

But for discussion about, say, DIY it's way better than twitter. It's not that close. Though I think that has to do with the fact that threaded conversations linearly descending from a single topic post is a better format than every message being it's own letter to respond to.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

If you don't support the government and big corporations working together to quell political dissent and disseminate propaganda, you are a fascist.

[JimboJr]

"content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it’s not personal"

Imagine writing this now, post-COVID, after the govt got caught (successfully) lobbying a 'private company' to kick off somebody who *didn't* violate any TOS, because that individual was interfering with their propaganda.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

There's a reason people accuse ENB of being a partisan hack and a dumb cunt. Not that I would ever call her a dumb cunt, but that's what people say.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

We know through FOIA requests that the Federal and State governments have been deeply involved in pushing the censorship of content- both political and other- to support their agendas.

Shit, in the case of the fake Facebook "whistleblower," they were right out in the open with it. Notice how no one has seen hide nor hair of that bitch on the news since her big media splash? The whole thing was a fucking work to get people amped up to censor anything going against the regime.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And I’ll add that the assertion “It wasn’t done because of some crazy agenda” is either sheer willfull ignorance, or a flat-out fucking lie. Because we have plenty of evidence now, such as the Google execs trying to reassure their employees that they’d do a better job to ensure something like Trump getting elected wouldn’t happen again, as well as the shadow-bans and deplatforming, that there WAS an agenda at play.

The response to ANYHTING regarding speech in the online public square is, “Close your eyes, leave the screen, or turn off the computer/smartphone.” Save the moderation for content that is actually criminal, and if it is criminal, then you better notify the po-pop about the crime being committed and work with them get charges filed. Otherwise, you’re full of shit about the actual danger and are just exercising it based on personal bias (looking at you, Matthew Prince).

[Minadin]

https://twitter.com/nobodyweb3/status/1514565059674050567/photo/1

[buybuydandavis]

All the cool kids were up to their eyeballs in Deep State cryptofascism because Orange Man Bad.

Sam Harris just said the quiet part out loud.

But their hatred of Orange Man was really just hatred by proxy of the "smelly Walmart shoppers" who voted for him and *won*. How dare they vote against their betters! How dare they think they were part of The People of Government of, by, and for The People!

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015. That means living British citizens helped pay for the ending of the slave trade.

[JimboJr]

A really based PM would ask black people to pay reparations to the Englishmen who financed their freedom, which was bought from a reluctant pro-slavery Africa

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

A really obnoxious PM would sent black people to Africa to demand reparations from the tribes that actually sold people to the slave traders.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And warn those nations that if they don't pay for the sins of their ancestors, Great Britian will colonize, er, appropriate their resources to pay for it in the name of sohshull jizztiz.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

With 189 years of interest.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

So they will start now paying the USA reparations for press ganging our saliors?

[perlmonger]

It also means living Black Brits helped pay for the emancipation of their own ancestors, in some cases, presumably.

[buybuydandavis]

The descendants of those who *liberated* slaves are supposed to pay reparations to the descendants of the slaves their ancestors liberated.

23andme says that Black Americans have on average 20-25% European lineage in their DNA.
Given demographics, immigration, racism, and laws against miscegenation, it's likely most of the European lineage in Black Americans descended of US slaves comes from US slave owners, giving Black Americans more slave owner heritage than your average White American.

Slavery was a human universal. We all owe a debt to those who *ended* it. The liberators. Not the slaves and the slave masters. The slave liberators.

It's rather peculiar to be told that I owe someone money because my ancestors liberated theirs from slavery. If there's going to be a settling of accounts for the past, payment should go in the other direction.

I'll take mine in gold or bitcoin.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Giving massages without a license can get you felony criminal charges in New York.

Is prostitution a felony? Because, if not, when caught just say you're running a rub-and-tug.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Prove it!

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Just claim you're an illegal immigrant and they'll leave you alone.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

"Musk Says He Bought Twitter"

You might have noticed many of our progressive #Resistance allies expressing alarm. Allow me to explain what's happening. Generally there are two types of Democratic voters:

1. Low-info voters operating under the badly outdated assumption that Democrats and "the rich" are natural enemies.

2. Savvy well-informed voters who understand Democrats are objectively the pro-billionaire party.

When you see famous progressives pretending to be upset about the world's richest person buying Twitter, they're almost certainly members of group #2 who are trying to fool group #1.

#OBLsFirstLaw
#BillionairesKnowBest

[buybuydandavis]

They're terrified that one of *theirs*, the billionaire ruling class, has gone off the reservation.
It won't take many to even the playing field.
They know they don't have the numbers.

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

Musk fired Vijaya Gadde.

She's the one that instituted all the censorship and random and not so random bannings

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That may be the most awesome news to come out of all of this. She has earned and deserves no less. It's only a shame that we can't tar and feather her as well.

[Mother's Lament]

She really deserves it.

Of course ENB attributes some of her best work to "algorithms".

[R Mac]

https://reason.com/2022/10/28/musk-says-he-bought-twitter-to-help-humanity-pledges-not-to-let-it-become-a-free-for-all-hellscape/?comments=true#comment-9765677

[CE]

Don't worry, she gets a hefty severance package.

[Anomalous]

Bye Felicia!

[JimboJr]

And even though she is going to play the victim card here, lets be honest. She has amassed a pretty nice little fortune by being the defacto propaganda czar at Twitter, and will land at some prog outfit with another huge, unearned salary.

[mad.casual]

unearned salary

Not 'unearned salary', 'sum of ill-gotten wealth'. She earned every penny as an apparatchick.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Like any whore.

[perlmonger]

Hey now. Most whores provide a valuable service, even if it's little-appreciated. Vijaya was more like a Soviet Apparatchik. No need to sully whores by associating them with the likes of her.

[John C. Randolph]

You're getting her mixed up with Kamala Harris.

-jcr

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

No, whores are often hot and give excellent head.

[perlmonger]

INNA GADDE VIJAYA, BABY!

[I, Woodchipper]

this is so great. This woman is a little stalinist and she would absolutely send you to the gulag for wrongthink if she could.

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

Chemjeff apoplectic with rage

The Brits issue some sanity on underage transgender transition

"The United Kingdom's National Health Service now says that most children claiming to be transgender may be going through a "transient phase."
The NHS plans to begin restricting gender-affirming treatment of minors who claim to be transgender, according to a report in The Telegraph.
Restrictions will be placed on puberty blockers, and medical doctors — not therapists — will be expected to lead the provision of transgender services."

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Why would I be angry?

They are probably right. Most kids claiming to be transgender probably are just going through "a phase".

I've never said that I LIKE gender reassignment surgery or that I LIKE it when kids are treated for gender dysphoria with surgery and drugs. I just don't think it should be **ILLEGAL**. I would not expect you to understand this, since you are just a social conservative who continually conflates what you think is moral with what ought to be legal.

It's YOUR team that is apoplectic with rage that someone, somewhere is doing something that you think is immoral - so angry that you want to use state violence against them to prevent them from doing so. That is you and your team. Not me.

Restrictions will be placed on puberty blockers, and medical doctors — not therapists — will be expected to lead the provision of transgender services.”

Good. I completely approve of this decision. Let doctors and parents and patients and counselors decide whether or not to get treatment. They ought to follow an established standard of care, and I'm in favor of a government regulation that would require this. What I don't support is making it entirely ILLEGAL and throwing parents and doctors in jail over attempting to treat gender dysphoria in manners that you don't personally approve of. Not even are they trying to make it illegal.

Why do you and your team want to go farther than the UK here? Why do you want to make it entirely illegal? Not even lobotomies are illegal. Not even bloodletting via leeches is illegal. Why should this be illegal?

[Mike Laursen]

“I’ve never said that I LIKE gender reassignment surgery or that I LIKE it when kids are treated for gender dysphoria with surgery and drugs. I just don’t think it should be **ILLEGAL**.”

This used to be something one didn’t have to explain, since we are on a libertarian website.

[JesseAz]

The problem with Jeff’s defense is both of you defend against it even outside the question of legality. You both push studies that state surgery has a benefit even when the problems of those studies are pointed out to you. This is defending the action, not the legality. You both also push for gender dysphoria and a positive outlook to transition to be present in schools. Again you defend the actions, not the legality. Lastly you refuse to acknowledge the arguments and harm the surgeries and medications cause despite being shown the evidence many times. Again this is you defending the act of gender reassignment and not the legality.

You two are full of shit.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

::"This is why these things are beneficial!"::
::"We never explicitly said in a notarized document that actually like this stuff!"::

For all their preening about "principles," their stances sure are malleable. Note how chemfat tries, badly and obviously, to weasel out of his weeks-long defense of these procedures.

[JesseAz]

I just don't know who they think they are tricking here. Why the leftists here think other people on the site can't remember their arguments even a day ago is beyond me. Their arguments are not over the legalities of it. They never have been. But when everything crashes around them they claim their arguments were always something else.

[DissapointedLion]

What evidence again?

Why is there no longer a distinction between "live and let live" and being on the let live side? why are you so obsessed with it?

You sound like you REALLY need to speak about what Ze Mother did to ya...

[Mike Laursen]

Conservatives have a long track record of being opposed to boob surgery for girls under 18, long before transgender issues came along.

Oh, wait, that’s right. They never gave a crap about it.

[JesseAz]

Can you find one comment supporting cosmetic procedures for breast augmentation?

And are you still confusing masecyomies with breast tissue reduction?

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Wow, you slayed that strawman. Well done.

[Mike Laursen]

Oh, really. Strawman?

Please cite an example of conservatives ever making an issue of girls under 18 mutilating themselves with boob jobs when it was for cosmetic rather than trans purposes.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Please prove this negative."

[Mother's Lament]

Please cite an example of girls under 18 being given cosmetic boob jobs unrelated to transgender surgery.

Your strawmen are running away from you.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Britney Spears?

[R Mac]

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

[Mother's Lament]

I'm sure Disney would've if they could've, but that was just a push-up bra.

[R Mac]

I volunteer to confirm.

[Don't look at me!]

Cite examples of it happening.

[Overt]

"Oh, really. Strawman?

Please cite an example of conservatives ever making an issue of girls under 18 mutilating themselves with boob jobs when it was for cosmetic rather than trans purposes."

Notice that Mike has turned from defending his own statements, and is now shifting to declaring what "conservatives" believe. This is a common form of trolling, because he never has to own up to his own statements. Instead, he is trying to put others on the defense- making up shit in his head, then daring others to prove him wrong. And when someone does, he will memoryhole this whole conversation again, and move onto another attack of the same type.

In case it isn't obvious to the thread, this is a complete bullshit attack. We aren't talking about breast augmentation with minors. We aren't even talking about conservatives. We are talking about whether or not it is moral for parents, doctors, and society in general to push young girls to permanently remove their mammary glands in order to "affirm gender".

Mike doesn't want to talk about THAT, because it will make him look like a freak. Instead he wants to engage in ad hominems, equating (reversable) breast augmentation or breast reduction (done for medical reasons, and not the same as a full mastectomy) with mastectomies and vilifying conservatives for not protesting.

[DissapointedLion]

This whole thread is beyond retarded.

How on Belzebumon's motorcicle did this article go from Elon Musk to transgender issues to fallacy fallacy fallacy fallacy fallacy fallacy ... fallacy fallacies.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Please show me where conservatives champion young girls getting breast implants?

I mean, it’s gone from conservatives are prudes in that they only want G rated movies and people to have sex after they are married, to conservatives are hyper-sexists championing young girls to get breast implants.

I just can’t with the straw manning, gaslighting, false contextualizations, and straight disingenuous arguments anymore.

[Mike Laursen]

“Please show me where conservatives champion young girls getting breast implants?”

I never said they championed it. I said they didn’t care. But now suddenly breast surgery is permanent mutilation! And a major culture war issue!

Do you understand, logically, the difference between negative numbers, positive numbers, and zero? Then you can understand the distinction between my saying some political fraction never cared about an issue (analogous to zero) and what I didn’t say, that they promoted breast surgery (analogous to positive numbers).

[Briggs Cunningham]

Show me an example of a girl under 18 getting a boob job. It doesn't happen. So, no conservatives havent' made an issue of it.

[perlmonger]

I mean, I'm sure it's happened at least once, but I'm certainly not aware of a rash of it. I'm also certainly not going to search for it, because there are things I don't need to appear in my history there, and "breast implants for 14 year old" is on the list.

[JesseAz]

Shrike probably has the saved links. Or are they too old?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

For Shrike? Too old.

[Claptrap]

You went to the wrong high school.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Please show me where this general broad stroke group of conservatives are okay with girls under 18 getting breast implants?

You make this wild claim that says I could go into a church filled with Christian conservatives and they all (or most) would be cool with a 16 year old girl getting breast implants. Please show me where that is?

This is a complete strawman that you have built to try and establish some bizarre level of hypocrisy that doesn't exist. And why are you doing it, to defend gender surgeries for minors, even though you claim to not like them and only have a problem with a law against them.

The problem is you are flailing on this issue and are grasping at whatever argument you can to deflect or distract from the actual issue. I know no conservatives who are cool with girls under 18 getting breast implants. Moreover, I don't know of many conservatives who are okay with girls over 18 getting breast implants.

And the other side of this coin is also your equating mastectomies and gender reassignment medical care as being in the same ballpark as breast implants. They are very different procedures.

So, you first wrongly conflate issues. Then you develop a strawman to slay in order to, what, defend gender medical procedures on minors? I don't know. All I know is you are flailing here and need to just cut bait.

[Mike Laursen]

"Please show me where this general broad stroke group of conservatives are okay with girls under 18 getting breast implants?"

It was certainly never made a central issue in Republican campaigns.

[JesseAz]

When was there an entire community pushing for plastic surgery of minors?

You're an idiot Mike.

[Mike Laursen]

"You make this wild claim that says I could go into a church filled with Christian conservatives and they all (or most) would be cool with a 16 year old girl getting breast implants. Please show me where that is?"

I made no such claim. They certainly didn't care enough to make it a culture war or election campaign issue.

[JesseAz]

This makes zero sense. It is a rationalization for your strawman, nothing more. Was there ever a group pushing for teachers/parents to push for their kids to get plastic surgery?

[Mike Laursen]

"And why are you doing it, to defend gender surgeries for minors, even though you claim to not like them and only have a problem with a law against them."

I'm not defending gender surgeries for minors.

First of all, no minors are getting genital surgery, so that leaves "top" surgery. I am defending letting the parents, doctor, and the child themselves decide, while I and others mind our own business and stay out of it.

[JesseAz]

This remains a lie no matter how many times you state it. You have been given WPATH statements as well as hospital statements. You are relying on confidential medical information to push a false talking point.

[Mike Laursen]

"Moreover, I don’t know of many conservatives who are okay with girls over 18 getting breast implants."

Like the conservatives who back Donald Trump, former host of the Miss Universe Pageant?

[JesseAz]

Do you have a single citation of an underage Miss Universe having surgery?

[Mike Laursen]

"And the other side of this coin is also your equating mastectomies and gender reassignment medical care as being in the same ballpark as breast implants. They are very different procedures."

The argument that has been made here several times is that breast surgery is mutilation, so we need laws to prevent all breast surgeries for minors. If breast implants aren't as bad as breast removal or reduction, it means maybe we don't need laws when a boy who identifies as a girl wants breast implants. By your own logic.

[R Mac]

So. Much. Squawking.

[JesseAz]

It is amazing how you don't understand basic science and how tissue reduction is not a masectomy.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Breast implants are also reversible and don't affect the ability to breastfeed.

[BYODB]

I know some posters think they have to 'disprove' or 'call out' their behavior, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. You're raising your blood pressure to 'fight' 30 year old children.

It would sure be nice if everyone would just mute the repeat offenders who are incapable of discourse, but I suppose that's why most of you are here; to debate mental midgets.

Maybe think on that a bit.

[damikesc]

"Conservatives have a long track record of being opposed to boob surgery for girls under 18, long before transgender issues came along."

Never had pop culture applauding it and legit plastic surgeons would not do them as girls are still growing. Most do not like doing boob jobs below age 25 without some outstanding circumstances.

[Mother's Lament]

Mike's practicing a rhetorical trick popularly called "lying".

[Mike Laursen]

So, then the rarity of breast surgery for transgender issues would also be a reason not to make a major culture war issue, since you’d be making a big deal over something that doesn’t happen very often. Right?

[JesseAz]

Masectomies have increased 400% in the last 3 years.

You are literally defending mutilation of children despite you saying you only want to discuss the legality above.

[DissapointedLion]

1) Sauce I mean source?

2) Breast Cancer. Gotta wonder if that has anything to do with this, no, seriously, I wonder about it, but then again some Heads of State (former and current) in the American continent seem to believe: "There're no children with cancer in Ba Sing Ze".

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

This is White Mike shorthand for, "Please don't criticize the destruction my lefty boos are committing. I actually support this, but am trying to play it off like I don't because I'd sound like a fucking psycho if I did."

[DissapointedLion]

Go home Dan Brown you're drunk, antimatter doesn't work that way.

[Mike Laursen]

"Never had pop culture applauding it"

Never had pop culture applauding high school girls with big boobs? Am I the only one who saw movies like "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

First statement: “Conservatives have a long track record of being opposed to boob surgery for girls under 18, long before transgender issues came along.”

Response: "Never had pop culture applauding it and legit plastic surgeons would not do them as girls are still growing."

Second statement: "Never had pop culture applauding high school girls with big boobs? Am I the only one who saw movies like “Fast Times at Ridgemont High”?"

Note how White Mike dishonestly tries to shift the argument from pop culture celebrating teenage boob jobs, and omitting the second part of damikesc's statement about normal medical ethical practices, to a gross generalization pop culture celebrating high school girls with big boobs.

That's because White Mike fully supports teenage girls having masectomies and the medical industry encouraging their body dysmorphia to believe they can change their gender.

[Truthfulness]

He'd make great friends with Shrike!

[DissapointedLion]

Oh, my bad, you're not Dan Brown, you're Joan Karen Rowling.

GET AWAY FROM ME YOU BITCH, YOU WON'T INFECT ME WITH THE GAYS AND RETROACTIVELY CHANGING MY SKIN COLOR!

[R Mac]

This spin is amazing to watch.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Moving the goal post on that strawman.

[A Thinking Mind]

The goal post is mounted on a high-speed train moving as far away from his original comment as possible.

[DesigNate]

The amount of balls it takes to pivot that strawman so quickly…you have surprising agility, I’ll give you that.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Am I the only one who saw movies like “Fast Times at Ridgemont High”
I think you ought to watch it again, Mike. Not any real boob enhanced girls in the movie that I remember. Go watch Phoebe Cates again. Nude and naturally small.

[Mike Laursen]

Conceded!

[docduracoat]

Here in south Florida We are doing plenty of breast augmentation surgery as high school graduation gifts.
So at least our plastic surgeons are fine with doing breast surgery on 18 year old girls.

[Mike Laursen]

Or sometimes 17, like many high school graduates (including me).

[A Thinking Mind]

So how was the surgery? Successful I take it?

[R Mac]

It turned him entirely into a boob.

[perlmonger]

I don't think that required surgery, though.

[Gus Valgus]

Are you bragging about graduating high school at 17?

[R Mac]

Yes.

[Mike Laursen]

No, I wasn't. Just stating a fact that some people are not 18 when they graduate.

[JesseAz]

And how many of those 17 year olds you are citing got surgery?

[John C. Randolph]

That really creeps me out. Implants are repulsive at any age, but mutilating 18 year olds who need mental health care, not surgery, is just a shitty thing to do.

-jcr

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Oh, wait, that’s right. They never gave a crap about it.

I'll stand in for *checks notes* the run-of-the-mill culture warrior conservative.

Yes we fucking did.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

And gee, I wonder... I wonder if there's a fundamental difference between breast augmentation surgery and removal.

[Mike Laursen]

I find it hard to believe you are unaware of breast reduction surgery.

Do you really want to go down this road with your debate. Because you’d basically be saying it’s OK with you if a boy who wants to be a girl gets breast implants.

[R Mac]

Wow.

[JesseAz]

Weeks of not knowing the difference between removing tissue and removing glands.

How ignorant can he be. Let's watch.

[Uilleam]

You lost the original argument AND your straw man argument. You're really lame dude.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I find it hard to believe you are unaware of breast reduction surgery.

You're goddamned straight I'm aware of breast reduction surgery, and if you're comparing breast reduction surgery (which should not be undertaken without the involvement of the parent) to breast removal surgery, you're the GasLighter Supreme here.

Do you really want to go down this road with your debate. Because you’d basically be saying it’s OK with you if a boy who wants to be a girl gets breast implants.

Yes, I want to go down this road on this debate, and trust me, you don't. A boy who wants to get breast implants without the knowledge or consent of his parents should not be allowed to do so, and probably shouldn't be allowed to do so WITH the consent of his parents.

That's the point you're running the 26 mile marathon to intentionally ignore

[Mike Laursen]

Where is all this "without the consent of parents" stuff coming from?

Where did I or chemjeff ever advocate for that?

[JesseAz]

There are groups in Virginia encouraging kids to run away from their parents. Teachers are pushing the ideology without consent of the parents. The very things you and jeff have defended.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

You have advocated for minors to get it, so there's that.

[Ignore me!]

This is the rhetorical dodge you and GroomJeff constantly resort to: "We pop up again and again to run cover for particular positions and attempt to discredit others, but no one may infer our actual ideological positions from this unless we explicitly state them in so many words." Personally, I don't care what you or Jeff believe. Your positions on any issue, which you are almost never honest enough to actually state, don't interest me. What I object to with you both is that you constantly attempt to derail discussion of legitimate concerns by people who are willing to state and defend their actual positions on these issues, and your primary method of derailing these discussions is to mischaracterize the other people in the discussion and what they're actually saying.

[Mike Laursen]

“Yes we fucking did.”

Really? It was never brought up in election campaigns or talked about incessantly on social media.

Conservatives seemed satisfied with good old American principle of minding their own business.

[DesigNate]

Probably because it wasn’t happening at the numbers we’re seeing for removal. Or it wasn’t an issue that Progressives were pushing hard in the media the same way they’re pushing trans shit.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Man, you've really driven off the cliff here with this gaslighting bullshit. The more I think about what you just said, the more insanely stupid it is.

I'm trying to imagine if there had been a debate where someone was saying,

"Young, underage children should be able to get titty surgery, and they should be able to do it without their parents' knowledge... and if a girl wants titty surgery, the teachers, school system and counselors should "affirm it" because titty augmentation surgery is "healthcare". These young girls have a self-esteem problem, and the only thing that will fix it is if their titties are bigger".

There is literally no conservative (or sane liberal-of which there are vanishingly few) who would be on board with that. Conservatives have almost always been very skeptical of young children engaging in elective procedures outside their parents' knowledge, yet one side of the aisle has been pushing it for literally decades.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

^This

[Mike Laursen]

LOL, the only way you can respond to my criticism of the Republicans sudden culture warrioring interest in teenager's breast surgery is to change what I said. I never:
* said anything about "they should be able to do it without their parents’ knowledge"
* teachers, school system and counselors (in fact, I've said here before more than once, that I don't approve of public schools pushing transgender idealogy)

MY position is that we should leave the government out of breast surgery decisions, leaving it to the parents, the child, and doctors. As we were perfectly fine with doing before it became a culture war issue.
*

[JesseAz]

Sudden? You mean when the entire left has been trying to normalize it for a decade? You really are ignorant.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Did polls change or something that's causing you to walk your prior positions way back?

[Don't look at me!]

Firing the top execs at Twitter is already having an effect.

[Mike Laursen]

chemjeff’s comment is in no way inconsistent with his comments on this topic on previous days.

[Don't look at me!]

Inconsistency is the only constant.

[Mother's Lament]

Who the hell do you think you're tricking?

[JesseAz]

He tried to temper it to the last few days, so like 2. I don't even remember Jeff commenting on it the last few days. So just ignore the last few months, and let mike set the exclusionary terms.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Maybe in the previous days, but I've actually argued with him about his support for such medical interventions. That's why I asked about his change of tune. And I guess I could ask you why you've changed your tune as well?

[JesseAz]

Because he can no longer claim it is just conservatives against it with polling showing 80% against gender assignment surgery and europe pulling back on it.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

This wild rush from people on the left to glom on and be cool with mutilating kids to virtue signal to a cultural fad is so beyond my comprehension.

[DesigNate]

It’s like they think we can’t go back and read their full throated bleating about icky conservatives and their trying to stop these practices.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I never changed anything.
I don't personally support gender reassignment surgery but I don't think it should be illegal.
Studies have shown that it can be beneficial to some patients. Not all, not all the time, but some.
Since you are not a libertarian it may be hard for you to understand that just because I may not approve of someone else's decision doesn't necessarily mean I want that person thrown in jail.
Get it?

[mad.casual]

Most kids claiming to be transgender probably are just going through “a phase”.

'It was a mostly probably consentual genital mutilation.' - chemjeff

Seriously, how long and hard do you work to actively retard yourself before you give up?

[Briggs Cunningham]

Just like Shreek never said he liked fucking children, he just said it shouldn't be illegal. Only you could say that children have the mental capacity to consent to life altering drugs and multination like it was some kind of a reasonable position.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The parents are the ones doing the consenting.

[Truthfulness]

And yet it's the left that advocates not needing parental consent.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Immoral? Try permanently mutilating.

[DissapointedLion]

Wait, you're being rational on the internet, not ideological rational but EMPIRICALLY rational.

I know it's good but the lack of (I hope) Righteous Indignation leaves me somewhat empty.

[Truthfulness]

There isn't anything rational on transgenderism, let alone having kids make permanent changes to their body in order to "validate" their feelings when in reality there's no scientific basis behind "transition". Why the hell do you want to defend that guy?

You should repent.

[DissapointedLion]

Relationship with Musk's delusions of grandeour?

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

They're everything that they claimed Trump was

Nancy Pelosi attacks media merger — after getting big campaign donation

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Classic Marxist tactic: accuse your enemy of what you are doing.

[buybuydandavis]

Leftists Always Project

[Kungpowderfinger]

In somewhat related news, it turns out there’s worse things than having a deplorable put his feet up on your desk:

https://kcra.com/article/paul-pelosi-attacked-at-home/41801411

An intruder violently beat Pelosi’s husband in their home (Nance was out of town).

Fox News is reporting leftist slogans were spray painted on their home, while CNN reports “While the circumstances of the attack are unclear, the attack raises questions about the safety of members of Congress and their families as threats to lawmakers are at an all-time high almost two years after the deadly Capitol insurrection”

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

the attack raises questions about the safety of members of Congress and their families as threats to lawmakers are at an all-time high almost two years after the deadly Capitol insurrection

But the multiple SWAT'tings of Margery Taylor Green or whoever were totes okay.

[damikesc]

Tim Pool has had eight swattings in the last year or so.

[perlmonger]

You'd think they'd have the address written down as a "We should double check" by this point.

[buybuydandavis]

You'd only think that if you thought they were honest.

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

She has the wrong letter after her name.

[Kungpowderfinger]

Whoops, leftist graffiti was from last year.

[Don't look at me!]

No mention of the baseball game shooting.

[Dace Highlander]

Sorry but Paul threw himself down a flight of stairs after Nancy saw the latest polls. She called Paul on the phone and said I'm coming home, I need some comforting. You're going to make Mama feel good...real good.

[HorseConch]

No mention of who the supsect is, so I assume he's not sum ultra-maga semi-fascist.

[Moonrocks]

Yeah, it's pretty surprising how little coverage this is getting.

[Utkonos]

I see reports he is in surgery with a fractured skull.

[perlmonger]

> (Nance was out of town).

Pity.

[ElvisIsReal]

Wow they managed to write an entire article insinuating it was right-wing violence, and also managed to leave out the lefty slogans......

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Never let a good crisis go to waste. Especially when a compliant media will edit the facts as needed.

[Eeyore]

Both men were holding hammers. Odd.

My money is on Nancy putting the hit out on her husband herself.

[Mike Laursen]

Can you provide a link? I've looked at a few different Fox News articles on the attack, and none mentioned leftist slogans.

[R Mac]

How about you go fuck yourself instead?

[Don't look at me!]

Pledges Not To Let It Become a 'Free-for-All Hellscape'

Like the reason comments section?

[JesseAz]

Reason. Where alcoholics and pedophiles have a say too.

[JimboJr]

Dont forget Holocaust deniers!

[InsaneTrollLogic]

What a combo, sarc (a), Buttplug and Jeffy (p), and Meisk (h).

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

All this Reason comment section stuff is pretty mild. If you really want to see some shit-flinging, go to any forum that talks about cars or guns.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

The comment section was a lot more fun before 2015.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Shit, I used to participate in Usenet back in the day. There was enough shit flinging for a lifetime in alt.atheist and talk.origins.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

What's funny is that all the shit that got posted on Usenet boards is ultimately what led to Section 230 getting written up.

[Overt]

I do miss the actual substantive debates that used to go on here. Sometimes we can find them.

But it is miles and again better than the barely legible bruh-speak that you find on 4chan or reddit these days.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

I mostly miss the literary genius of SugarFree and Agile Cyborg

[Uilleam]

Agile Cyborg's rants were either Zen level enlightened or completely mad. Interesting either way.

[DesigNate]

SF had a way with words that could chill a grown man to the bones.

[docduracoat]

That is 100% not true.
I follow the truth about guns, the firearm blog and ammoland and the reason comments are much more hostile than any of those

[sarcasmic]

Reason comments: Home for pathetic assholes whose lives are so miserable that they can only feel good about themselves by being mean to strangers on the internet.

[Uilleam]

Sarcasmic has lit the bat signal guys. You better pay attention to him or he'll feel left out.

[Gus Valgus]

Self-exclusion?

[Mother's Lament]

Says Sarcasmic, on Reason, while being mean to strangers like a pathetic asshole.

Self-awareness is definitely not his superpower.

[sarcasmic]

Too funny. You take personal offense and think I'm being mean to you when I refer to "pathetic assholes." Dude, that's you. Not me. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Uilleam]

Self-awareness still isn't his superpower.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Never was.

[R Mac]

Dude, he said nothing that indicates he took personal offense, just called you out for your hypocrisy. *

*I take no personal offense by your comment.

[Mother's Lament]

"You take personal offense and think I’m being mean to you"

No I didn't. Reading comprehension also isn't your superpower.
I called you a hypocrite. No personal offence necessary to reach that conclusion.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Got a mirror there, sarc?

[Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force]

Then go somewhere else. Discussion improves when you and the Marxist shitposters don’t show up.

[DesigNate]

As they should (as long as what they post isn’t actually illegal).

[DissapointedLion]

Psychological projection is the process of misinterpreting what is "inside" as coming from "outside". -Wikipedia

[Truthfulness]

And yet it actually works at times. It's called "first impression".

[Not Robbers=Nut Rubbers]

And this is why whenever there's a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it's not personal. It wasn't done because someone doesn't like your politics. It wasn't done because of some crazy agenda. It was done because a combination of thousands of people around the globe and still sketchy artificial intelligence are making an insane number of decisions every day.

This is stupid....when one content decision seems partisan, blame it on human error, AI, algorithms. When legitimate news stories (Biden laptop) or quoting what others say (LibsofTikTok) or a humor site (Babylon Bee) get banned and it's all one side of the conversation getting banned while a New York Times editorial board member who is a minority, LGBTQ woman, who just happens to also be verifiably racist, is a voice to be amplified, it at least appears to be part of "some crazy conspiracy" "because someone doesn't like your politics".

[Mike Laursen]

“That might not be true in high-profile cases, like with Trump, or the Hunter Biden laptop story, etc.”

[Social Justice is neither]

Fuck off ENB. the algorithm does not pop out of the aether it is directed by people with agendas. To highlight a claim otherwise as you do is either pure ignorance or pure evil in service of pushing proggy propaganda.

Imagine the excuse that the iranian mullahs did nothing wrong since they're just acting on the algorithm of social mores. Gays tossed off building, not personal. Women stoned to death, not personal. Tossed in jail for disagreeing with the regime, definitely not personal. It's all just magic.

The amount of pure evil you can justify when you remove all consequence from chosen actions is apparently point for progs like ENB.

[Mother's Lament]

"Fuck off ENB. the algorithm does not pop out of the aether it is directed by people with agendas."

Nobody can be this ignorant. She's deliberately trying to gaslight us.

[JimboJr]

Ive thought for a while she is positioning herself for a gig at one of the prog outfits as the one with the 'libertarian' angle on things. Like how Welch gets to make the rounds on Bill Maher and whatnot. She is leaning so far left nowadays she might just trip and fall into a comfy chair at Wapo.

[Mother's Lament]

The WaPo may be a DNC narrative control organ, but they still expect a certain level of intellectualism and talent that I believe she falls far short of.

Maybe she should aim for Teen Vogue.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

but they still expect a certain level of intellectualism and talent

(Citation Needed)

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

What about boobs?

[Social Justice is neither]

Taylor Lorenz proves this is not true.

[Claptrap]

They keep her around for other reasons. Functionally she’s the daughter of an inner-party member – her actual output doesn’t matter in the slightest.

Note: that’s not spam but an archive of a Twitter thread that was scrubbed because… reasons.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Because someone got pissy and contacted Vijaya Gadde to scrub it off Twitter and give @FearTheFloof a ban.

Let’s reiterate, shall we?

Taylor Lorenz was born to mega rich developer Walter R. Lorenz (65) and Anne Lorenz (67) & raised in a $5.7 million dollar mansion. Her sister is Brook Lorenz of CNN.

But it’s her uncle that’s the big story here. You see Taylor Lorenz’s mom and uncle were mega rich children of a very powerful politician… and R. McDonald (her uncle) is the owner / founder of the WayBackMachine internet archive.

Actually the Internet Archive, not the WayBackMachine – @FearTheFloof corrected this later (I have it saved as an image).

Trying to find info about any of these people on the internet in nearly impossible. Taylor Lorenz even had her uncle exempt her twitter account from the WayBackMachine. Once she deletes her tweets they are literally wiped from the internet forever.
Now that’s power you can’t buy

For the record Taylor Lorenz was born October 21st 1984 in New York, NY… making her 37 years old.

She’s 38 now. And she limits who can reply to her tweets.

[Claptrap]

She's also a zero-COVID dead ender. Lovely girl.

[JimboJr]

Felecia Somnez on line 2

[Eeyore]

Maybe Reason needs a spin off, Teen Reason.

[buybuydandavis]

Who else is old enough to remember the Pre Woke Reason?

[buybuydandavis]

Don't be so hard on her.

She's a professional gaslighter for The Regime. A gal has gotta make a living.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

"The U.S. economy grew sluggishly over the summer, per the latest government data. Gross domestic product rose 0.6 percent, for a 2.6 percent annual rate of growth."

"Sluggishly"?! Reason's leading economics expert was thrilled about these numbers the other day.

#BestEconomyEver

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Sluggish is the new awesome.

[Mother's Lament]

Reason Rundown

Democrat blows whistle on alleged ballot harvesting scheme, Florida opens criminal probe

Former candidate for Orange County commissioner describes widespread vote trafficking operation in Orlando area, authorities see enough evidence to warrant criminal probe.

[A Thinking Mind]

No "wide-spread" fraud.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That kind of fits in with this:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/elections/ct-mailed-ballots-lawsuit-20221028-zvojvgcqmrc2disat3se2soc4i-story.html

The lawsuit, led by four-term U.S. Rep. Mike Bost of Murphysboro echoes some of the rejected court challenges filed by former President Donald Trump in other states in the lead-up to the 2020 presidential election that he falsely [sic-me] contends was stolen. Bost is being assisted in the suit by a nonprofit conservative advocacy organization that has backed a number of Trump’s efforts.

At issue is a 2015 state law that allows vote-by-mail ballots to be counted if they are received within 14 days after Election Day if they were postmarked on or before the final day of voting. If the ballots lack a postmark or if it is illegible, ballots can be counted if the voter dated and signed the ballot on or before Election Day.

The lawsuit contends the Illinois law violates federal law that establishes the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November of even-numbered years as Election Day for federal elections. The suit further contends that the Illinois law subjects Bost to harm, including expenses for post-Election Day poll watchers and the possibility mail-in ballots counted during the 14-day period “dilutes” “timely” votes cast up to and including Election Day.

In defending the state law, the Illinois attorney general’s office, headed by Democrat Kwame Raoul, counters that the Illinois statute is “crucial to ensuring the voting rights of millions of Illinoisans who avail themselves of the right to vote by mail.

No, Raoul, it's crucial that you keep the law so you can stuff the ballot boxes after everything has been counted. This is corruption central, aka Illinois. Of all states, this one needs international observers due to the amount of vote fraud that's taken place over the decades.

[perlmonger]

14 days after election day!? WTF!

"Election We'll Get Around To It Eventually"

[HorseConch]

For it being such a fundamental right and duty, they sure don't give a shit if it is perceived as secure. ID is racist, voting on a Tuesday is oppressive, having guaranteed early voting days is Jim Crow 2.0. At least we can relax and not have our TV's cluttered with the NBA on election day any more.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Chicago. Illinois. Democrats. Secure elections? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

They don't want nobody, nobody sent to count those votes. This is a group that's committed vote fraud since the Griffin sailed and was lost on the Great Lakes.

[ElvisIsReal]

And with no postmark!

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

My cousin worked for Cook County "collecting" ballots. He lasted 3 years befor he stopped and thought, perhaps this is not moral

[The Margrave of Azilia]

What *would* a free-for-all hellscape look like?

Hmmm...I wonder if there are any real-world examples I could cite?

[JesseAz]

Chuck E Cheese?

[A Thinking Mind]

Any polling station in Georgia?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Chicago during the George Floyd Riots.

[JimboJr]

or any random weekend?

[Mike Laursen]

Tik Tok, apparently.

WTF would anyone think an asphyxiation challenge is a good idea.

[Jerry B.]

Darwin, perhaps?

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Bad parenting?

[JesseAz]

Try it and let us know why someone would do it.

[DissapointedLion]

Remember when I accused you of projecting?

Quote Erat Demonstratum.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

America pre-New Deal / Progressive Era?

[Don't look at me!]

Buttplug’s basement?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Not so sure about the free-for-all, but it would be hellish.

[mad.casual]

What *would* a free-for-all hellscape look like?

Martha's Vineyard?

[Aloysious]

Before they kicked out the icky people, or after they kicked out the icky people?

[Mike Liarson]

If by kick them out you mean fed them pizza and gave them a place to sleep for the night, sure.

[mad.casual]

As a break from risking heat strokes in the field, getting mangled by implements that you keep operating season-after-season-after-season, and losing digits in sub-freezing cold, our local school or church would host what is, apparently, a ‘free-for-all hellscape’ for the community. You had to get on a list to get a protracted stay in at an NG barracks, though. Probably one of the perks of being an indispensable and iconic American tourist location.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Read the username a little closer

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Walmart on Black Friday?

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

SQRLSY's mind?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Chaotic, yes. Not so sure about hellscape so much as just plain nutty.

[R Mac]

Germany when the heat’s turned off?

[Utkonos]

Germany? Hellscape? You know who else?
^I’m trying to make a single coherent sentence out of those, but I’m drawing a blank…

[TheReEncogitationer]

Please don't lose your touch, Utkanos. I'll help:

You know who else made Germany into a Hellscape?

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Very nice, but I was thinking of certain comment sections.

[Utkonos]

Well, a lot of assholes do shit up the comment sections on a lot of YouTube videos…

[BestUsedCarSales]

I always wonder that with something like Twitter in particular, because Twitter is so... bubbly. Basically that's going to be true of any big website, but the website is mostly a huge portion of bubbles.

One amazing consequence of this I see is people not even knowing what's one Twitter. Like, I consistently see folks talk about how if Musk gets Twitter porn is going to be everywhere on the website. But it already is. Porn is allowed on the website. It's just in a bubble, just like most of these types of sites.

[Mike Laursen]

Elon Musk’s purchase of Twitter is now official…

Not possible. I have been told many times by right-leaning “libertarians” in the commentariat that the Democratic Party controls all major social media, and free market mechanisms can never do anything to counter the liberal stranglehold on social media.

[Mother's Lament]

They do, you retarded fuck. Look at all the internals Musk is releasing from Twitter's previous regime. It demonstrates exactly that.

And it took a surprise $44 billion hostile takeover to weed them out. That's not natural market forces you gaslighting fuck.

[JesseAz]

You too can fight against leftist capture of media if you're a billionaire!

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Buy your own Twitter?

[Mike Laursen]

Or make your own, like Trump did.

[Uilleam]

Trump made a Twitter? You don't really understand anything that is spewing out of your pie-hole, do you?

[DissapointedLion]

Is your sarcasm detector faulty?

[Truthfulness]

On the contrary, Mike really believes the strawman nonsense he spouts out. Why shouldn't we call him out on that? Don't defend that scum.

[JesseAz]

Cite? And why are you using statements in a present tense made in the past as a gotcha against current present happenings?

Youre not intelligent Mike. Just an ignorant leftist who can't deal with reality.

Musk also isn't right wing dumbass.

[A Thinking Mind]

Where's your citation that anyone in these comments ever said those words, or words to that effect?

[Zeb]

Well, when you are the richest guy in the world, you accomplish a bit more than most.

[Kungpowderfinger]

We’ll see what the FBI has to say about that.

[rbike]

Cite? Who said this Sea Lion?

[Don't look at me!]

Sarc wannabe.

[I, Woodchipper]

Cite?

[Mother's Lament]

"And this is why whenever there’s a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with... It wasn’t done because someone doesn’t like your politics. It wasn’t done because of some crazy agenda.”

We have all the internal messaging now + Project Veritas footage demonstrating exactly that, you gaslighting liar.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Quote from Fatass Donnie on the announcement of 2.6% GDP in 2017:

"We have a GDP, on Friday -- it got very little mention, although I guess in the business areas it did. But it got, I think, very little mention. 2.6 is a number that nobody thought they'd see for a long period of time.... And 2.6 is an unbelievable number, announced on Friday."

"Indeed, when the president says "nobody" expected to see quarterly growth of 2.6 "for a long period of time," that plainly ridiculous. As recently as last fall, which really isn't that long ago, we saw 2.8% growth.

Throughout the Obama era, most notably after the Great Recession ended, we saw plenty of individual quarters in which growth topped 4% and, at one point, 5%. Barack Obama didn't do much to pat himself on the back, and the Democratic White House didn't tout the figures as "unbelievable." They were simply seen as evidence of a domestic economy that was growing steadily."

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-policy-illiteracy-includes-the-basics-economic-data-msna1007636

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Another skillful demonstration of #DefendBidenAtAllCosts Category A: change the subject (to Trump).

"msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show"

No way! You're a fan of Rachel Maddow too? She's just a terrific journalist. I was especially impressed when she realized Russians were literally controlling the US government months before Mueller's investigation proved exactly that.

#ItsMuellerTime

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

You know, it is a sign of how pitifully weak the Democratic outrage machine is to be reduced to a meek little carpet-munching Rhodes scholar. You noticed that too.

The GOP does it right. Get a bunch of angry loud-ass uneducated rednecks to talk about how rough they have it to convince everyone how America is shitting on them.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

It's always fascinating seeing just how hate-filled you leftist are. Explains so much about your ideology.

[Briggs Cunningham]

The GOP does it right. Get a bunch of angry loud-ass uneducated rednecks to talk about how rough they have it to convince everyone how America is shitting on them.

Says the only admitted racist on the entire board.

[Mike Laursen]

Elon Musk says he is going to reinstate Trump’s Twitter account. Trump now owns his own competing Twitter clone, TRUTH Social, and has publicly stated he would not come back to Twitter.

So, will he or won’t he?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

I hope the Con Man does come back to Twitter and not confine himself to some obscure conservative shit-hole.

More and more people can see how full of shit he is on every topic he comments on.

The Cult will never leave him - but others are catching on.

Fatass Donnie is a lying con man. Even some Republicans see it.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Will he be able to Tweet from prison though?

Recall that you predicted almost a year and a half ago he'd be going to prison "soon."

#TrumpDocuments

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yes, the Oracle of Dogdick(head), Georgia made this prediction. What a seer.

#TheBirdIsFree

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

The walls are closing in. Just wait until the next BOMBSHELL at the J6 hearings.

[Sevo]

turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a slimy TDS-addled pile of shit, a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Trump publicly states a lot of things.

[Mike Laursen]

He certainly does. I would really hate to be his lawyer, trying to get him to shut up about pending lawsuits.

[I, Woodchipper]

who cares?

[mad.casual]

What?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You really are retarded. Inflation was close to 1% at that time, not the 8% we see today.

[Mother's Lament]

It's like he thinks our memories don't extend beyond the current news cycle.

[Mike Laursen]

Facebook's fortunes continue to plummet

It’s OK. Zuck can still be a virtual billionaire.

[Ra's al Gore]

Senate Report Concludes Covid Came From "Research Related Incident"
https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/its-official-us-senate-report-concludes

A Senate Committee on Health Education, Labor and Pensions Minority Oversight Staff interim report from October 27, 2022 titled “An Analysis of the Origins of the COVID19 Pandemic” has revealed that the origins of Covid were more likely based in a lab as part of a “research related incident” and not zoonotic.

The report was the result of a “bipartisan Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee oversight effort into the origins of SARS-CoV-2”. It provides a lengthy analysis that reviews “publicly available, open-source information to examine the two prevailing theories of origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus”.

[Moonrocks]

The Senate is full of Crazy Conspiracy Theorists.

[Hank Ferrous]

Assertions that there are no 'qualified' reports, no evidence showing lab leak as a viable cause in 3, 2, 1...

[HorseConch]

Definitely need a citation on this one or Lying Mike isn't buying it.

[R Mac]

Who could have seen this coming?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The Psychic Hotline?

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Ray Charles?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Shame social media had to censor that information 2 years ago. But it wasn't personal.

[Utkonos]

If only all of this had gone down 22 years ago I could have down a great Al Gore rhythm pun…

[Utkonos]

OK, see, that is the Truth NOW about what happened back then…But it wasn’t the Truth BACK THEN about what happened back then.
I hope that clarifies matters. (If not, enroll in Remedial Dialectics ASAP)

[buybuydandavis]

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

[damikesc]

"That might not be true in high-profile cases, like with Trump, or the Hunter Biden laptop story, etc. But in general, much of what gets attributed to deliberate action and animosity is much more likely a product of technology, human error, or nonideological differences in human judgment happening at the lower levels of Twitter's power chain."

Perhaps, but the one-sided way this is done gives me doubts. When all "errors" go one way, they cease being errors.

[Briggs Cunningham]

And suddenly it is just so hard to police social media platforms. You would think simple rules like "no explicit sex or nudity", "no direct threats of violence", and "no posting of copyrighted or illegal material" would be very simple to enforce. They only seem to get difficult when the left is enforcing them and the mistakes and double standards always go the same way. Funny that.

[Moonrocks]

You would think simple rules like “no explicit sex or nudity”, “no direct threats of violence”, and “no posting of copyrighted or illegal material” would be very simple to enforce.

Apparently not, because while the totally unbaised moderation algorithm is uncannily good at squashing stories inconvenient to Democrats, it's incapable of find, for example, massive child porn rings.

[Briggs Cunningham]

And the hundreds of death threats that JK Rowling, the most famous author in the world gets. It seems to miss those for some reason.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

On the other end of the spectrum, we have drama queen Taylor Lorenz whining about these kind of threats.

https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/1585840327817981953?t=_bDAPR9u1X6tU8vZoPppKQ&s=19

I’m getting more rape threats in the DMs than normal, but can’t log off and miss the chaos!

But, according to Twitter on her posts…

Who can reply? People @TaylorLorenz follows or mentioned can reply

What an asshole she is.

[Hank Ferrous]

I think this instance of the shit started w/ the 'believe all women' phase of pop feminism. Zerlina maxwell, sarkeesian, marcotte, antirationalists of their ilk who were embraced by the atheist community. I suppose the argument could be made that it started w/ the temperance movement, and any back and forth between the suffragettes and temperance scolds. Lorenz is a lying asshole, whose every statement is taken as fact by some, because vagina.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Fun fact--her uncle set up the Wayback Machine, so she had a deal set up that none of her online history can be archived. You have to take screenshots whenever she says something stupid because it gets blocked on archive.

[Moonrocks]

The Wayback Machine has been politically compromised for a while. Try archive.today.

[American Mongrel]

Started with the abolitionists and since they were actually on the side of good, they got the benefit of the doubt when they moved on to ruining the country.

[Briggs Cunningham]

Just hope she never has any real authority. She is a first rate monster.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The internet is a real case study in why nerds should never be given any kind of power whatsoever, because they'll gleefully abuse it due to the humiliation of not being one of the cool kids in school.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

See: Bill "Let them eat bugs" Gates

[perlmonger]

As a nerd, I can say that this... might well be accurate, yeah. Then again, I don't want power, either. I just want left alone.

[I, Woodchipper]

Also the twitter DM rules are that you can only get a DM from someone YOU follow, if i remember correctly. She is fuucking lying here.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I would think no, actually with the "threats and violence" same for "pornography" though I will repeat that pornography, at least drawn pornography, is all over the website.

I actually think the better system for Twitter isn't less rules, it's actually more. But have them explicit, have them understandable, and make clear which one is applied for a given ban or post deletion. Take away the whim and vagueness that moderators hide behind currently.

[I, Woodchipper]

Death threats from transos to TERFs are just free expression yo, cant you understand?

[Ra's al Gore]

Top Dems Urge Biden To Nationalize Oil & Gas Industry
https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/top-dems-urge-biden-to-nationalize

At a Houston conference last week, Jason Bordoff, Dean of Columbia University’s Climate School, called for the “nationalization” of oil and gas companies. “Government must take an active role in owning assets that will become stranded,” he said, “and plan to strand those assets.” By “strand” Bordoff meant “make financially worthless.” Bordoff made the point at least twice during the confrerence. Bordoff’s call shocked many in the audience. “Jason is smart, well-informed, and well-connected to the Biden Administration,” said someone who was at the conference, “so these comments are scary.”

[creech]

You didn't mention if this socialist Bordoff walks everywhere he goes, refuses to use electricity, and eats only cold food prepared from his own manure-fertilized garden.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That better be self-sourced manure.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Defund the academy?

[perlmonger]

And bury the members for carbon sequestration purposes. No need to execute them first.

[DesigNate]

Cause that won’t end horribly. Just ask Venezuela.

[Ra's al Gore]

Democrat Blows Whistle on Alleged Ballot-Harvesting Scheme, Florida Opens Criminal Probe
https://tennesseestar.com/2022/10/28/democrat-blows-whistle-on-alleged-ballot-harvesting-scheme-florida-opens-criminal-probe/

“So what happens is in our community when absentee ballots are mailed, you the candidate or any political party can find out when the absentee ballots are mailed and to whom what happens is these ballot harvesters, they know which batch has gone out, they go to the door and they ask you for your absentee ballot,” Harris told the “Just the News, No Noise” television show on Wednesday night.

“Well, in communities that don’t look like me, no one does this,” she said, referring to white neighborhoods. “But in our community it’s kind of like an accepted practice that the man is coming by to pick up my absentee ballot or the lady is coming to pick up my absentee ballot.”

In her sworn affidavit, Harris identifies specific individuals who direct and act as ballot brokers and were paid to collect ballots and provides intricate details on how the system allegedly works, along with emails, receipts, video footage and other evidence.

“Ballot brokers typically work up to a year in advance,” she stated. “Ballot brokers visit individuals in their residences and assists the individual with filling out a request for a mail-in ballot. After the mail-in ballot arrives, the voter is instructed to wait for the ballot broker returns to the individuals residence. They are asked to not seal the certificate envelope.”

“In rare circumstances, if the voter has filled out the ballot and sealed the envelope certificate, the ballot broker will take the ballot and then steam open the sealed envelope,” the affidavit added. “The ballot broker will either correct any votes, if necessary, that were not voted according to their wishes or just throw them out.”

Harris described how, much as in Wisconsin, vulnerable patients in rehabilitation centers and nursing homes in Florida were targeted for ballot trafficking.

[Marshal]

L

[perlmonger]

But, is there enough of this going on to technically count as "wide-spread"? Because, as we all know, there's no wide-spread voter fraud going on.

[Briggs Cunningham]

That might not be true in high-profile cases, like with Trump, or the Hunter Biden laptop story, etc. But in general, much of what gets attributed to deliberate action and animosity is much more likely a product of technology, human error, or nonideological differences in human judgment happening at the lower levels of Twitter's power chain.

It is just a coincidence that only people on the right were ever banned. It is just differences in human judgement. I can't quite decide if ENB is willing to tell such an absurd bald faced lie or worse she is so stupid she actually believes that.

[Mother's Lament]

The former. Lying for the regime is a moral virtue amongst the blue checks.

[Brandybuck]

National pants shitting event (plus beard rending) going on because a billionaire is buying twitter. "Oh noes! Twitter won't be controlled by the 'people'!"

Okay, last guy in charge of Twitter was... a billionaire. Dorsey.

So I'm not understanding the Left here (and much of the Right as well). Twitter is still going to remain a public corporation, the evil thing the Left has hated since the time of Marx because it's all about capital accumulation. Not a privately owned business. And it's switching control from one aloof billionaire to another aloof Billionaire.

So the spark to the national pants shitting event is not that a billionaire is buying a public commons of some sort, but that one particular billionaire is doing it. Which billionaire is doing the buying? The dude pushing electric cars and home battery storage as fast as he possibly can. The dude that is leading the on-the-ground charge against climate change. If we get off of petroleum based automobiles it won't be because of politicians it will be because of Elon Musk.

But apparently he doesn't want to limit speech on that 'public commons' and so has become the most hated man alive. I don't get it.

Or rather, I do get it. For the Left (and much of the Right) it's not about what they do, it's what the say. Words are everything. It's about the shibboleth of a certain Rhetoric. It's better that we all bake to death with the right words in our mouth than, God forbid, some dude with the wrong words goes and finds some solutions. Fuck the Left (and much of the Right).

[Briggs Cunningham]

Or rather, I do get it. For the Left (and much of the Right)

Sorry but you still don't get it. Your "pox on both houses" bullshit just shows you to be a left wing shill. Whenever the left does something undeniably wrong, the party line for people like you is "well both sides are terrible". Both sides may be terrible but in this instance the main threat to free speech and expression in this country comes from the left. I realize pointing that out causes you to have a pants shitting event, but sometimes life is like that.

[Sevo]

Brandyshit deserves nothing other.

[Mike Laursen]

Agree with your general sentiment that it’s not that big a deal. One correction: Musk is claiming he intends to take the company private, as soon as today. (Not sure he can just snap his fingers and make that happen so quickly.)

[Don't look at me!]

It’s amazing what you can make happen with money.

[Don't look at me!]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-27/tesla-engineers-visit-twitter-office-to-review-code-for-musk

Imagine what they might find.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Apparently whatever they found was enough for Musk to clean house at the top immediately.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

I'm guessing they found spb hard drive?

[Longtobefree]

"Twitter is still going to remain a public corporation, the evil thing the Left has hated since the time of Marx because it’s all about capital accumulation. Not a privately owned business."

Just for a change, you could read the article - - - - - - - -

"Twitter also is expected to become private Friday, dissolving its current board of directors and ending public trading of its stock," notes The Washington Post.

Surely you trust WaPo?

[BestUsedCarSales]

The best half-joking/half-real comment I've seen along this is that there is a contingent of people to whom Twitter is their world, and so to them Musk is buying the world.

[R Mac]

Was it directed to ENB?

[Mike Laursen]

That's a good way of putting it.

[Marshal]

in general, much of what gets attributed to deliberate action and animosity is much more likely a product of technology, human error, or nonideological differences in human judgment

This is not true. The overwhelming majority is much more likely a result of differing standards applied to In-groups vs Out-groups as described in Scott Alexander’s internet famous essay on Slate Star Codex. People instinctively scrutinize those they disagree with to a far greater degree than those they generally agree with. The left understands and uses this to their advantage. So when Anita Sarkissian used the gamer gate controversy to pressure twitter into adopting a community review board she did so with the express intent of ensuring the censors would be entirely left wing. Her appointment to this board, supported by the the left activism of the tech industry, ensured her vision would become reality. This didn’t happen by accident, it was the result of specific activism.

We see the results of this in high profile cases, but there’s no evidence other issues are decided any differently. This assertion is simply wishcasting.

[mad.casual]

The overwhelming majority is much more likely a result of differing standards applied to In-groups vs Out-groups as described in Scott Alexander’s internet famous essay on Slate Star Codex. People instinctively scrutinize those they disagree with to a far greater degree than those they generally agree with. The left understands and uses this to their advantage.

Got a more concise citation? Alexander's Essay*s* can be lengthy and cover a range of (seemingly) unrelated topics.

IMO, this is otherwise known as 'good faith' and the exploitation of it is better/more concisely described by Specific Ambiguity or just 'bad faith'.

[Marshal]

The second sentence is my summary ( you’re right, his original is longer than necessary).

The gist is that we judge our peers, the in group, far more leniently than others, the out group. He delves into many reasons why including that we better understand their positions and inherently trust them more. But the key is that we apply a standard to the out group that our in group would fail if we only applied it to them. The whys are interesting but ultimately not relevant to recognize or understand the impact (they are to people who want to overcome it).

As to it’s accuracy you can see the impact across supposedly nonpartisan media and institutions. They complain about misinformation while publicizing the most obvious misinformation campaign in US history without even recognizing the conflict. Sarc and Laursen (among others) demonstrate it every day in just about every comment.

This is why the left spends so much effort “othering” anyone non-left. They know their own views do not achieve the standards they demand of opposing views and once all views are judged consistently theirs will lose support.

[Hank Ferrous]

I'd point out that it extends beyond merely 'othering' the outgroup, in this case, those holding views that non progressive/left-leaning people view as acceptable. It includes rewriting history, redefining language, and setting sociopolitical scales that suit their views. This is one reason why there was the discussion here about allsides listing npr and the hill as neutral news sources when they are clearly liberal/left in bias. I suppose one could include this type of behavior in 'othering,' though I say it is simply dishonest attempts at strengthening their positions.

[mad.casual]

you’re right, his original is longer than necessary

So, his 'internet famous essay' really is the whole blog and not a specific post? [reading postponed until later]

But the key is that we apply a standard to the out group that our in group would fail if we only applied it to them.

This makes it seem like good faith is inherently bad and one should assume the worst actions even from in group peers. I'd prefer the ambiguity definition as I don't think any amount of effort can pin down any/all unstated assumptions now and forever. It's possible to not apply a standard to your in group because the standard doesn't exist, or exists as indistinguishable from nothing, between the two of you and it isn't until in group opposition acting in good faith (the reason for the 1A) focuses on it or out group/bad faith exploits it that it becomes an issue.

[Marshal]

No it’s specific. I’m not in a position to post a link but if you google ssc in-group out-group you’ll find it. He deleted the blog when the NYT doxxwd him but he left a few high profile essays up (including this one and his Motte and Bailey essay).

I don’t think he intends it as you describe. Is more a proof that the standards applied to the out group are provably inappropriate because we don’t apply them to our in group.

[mad.casual]

He deleted the blog when the NYT doxxwd him but he left a few high profile essays up (including this one and his Motte and Bailey essay).

Gathered that. Wasn't sure 'in-group' (e.g) was accurate enough. Thx.

[perlmonger]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

[mad.casual]

It will be interesting to see how Musk manages to walk the line between free speech and “free-for-all hellscape.”

LOL

Facebook’s fortunes continue to plummet

We’re siccing anti-terrorism units on people who pay for sex now.

Admittedly, I can’t put my finger on exactly what (except maybe in the last one: ‘People? Are the sexworkervictims suddenly not people now, ENB?’) but it feels very much like there’s a narrative shift going on. Like something between a) ENB internally/intrinsically making an actual, principled, not-explicitly-feminist libertarian shift, b) ENB hoping not to be a part of a Twitter purge-wave, or c) the combination of the two, ENB really wanted to avoid being forced to tow the Twitter line and is now free to stop.

My guess is B, but others can decide for themselves and only time (until the next citation of David French cite, abortion article, or article defending a transgender mother drowning her 3-yr.-old son) will tell.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I don't understand your point. Could you clarify?

[mad.casual]

It's subtle, maybe a figment of my imagination. We've still got Bustle-level stupidity about autonomy, algorithms, and the people wield them but, drilling down:

LOL: "San Francisco is considering softening a ban on publicly funded contracts and travel in 30 states that don't share its liberal values on issues such as abortion and transgender rights, as officials question whether the prohibition is having any effect beyond likely costing the city tens of millions of dollars."

We just saw ENB 'LOL' at SF having narrow its 'civil libertarianism' scope, stay in its lane, and do business with States and municipalities literally enacting A Handmaid's Tale, right? In an AM links with no other mention of abortion? Something seems... off.

We're siccing anti-terrorism units on people who pay for sex now.

A sex worker positive story about only men, who aren't 1000% fabulously out and proud, and doesn't get righteous about women's agency as sex workers by demanding that they be free from even the barest of consequences of their actions? Again, something's off.

Maybe grasping at straws, but it doesn't feel like her usual self-defeating/anti-libertarian feminist grasping at Twit-storms.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Ah, I got it. I think you're seeing trends where none exist. Maybe it's you're just hoping the website will shift back into a more positive direction.

[Vernon Depner]

I almost never understand what he's trying to say.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Under Charlottesville's new policy, employees must "refrain from conduct, on- and off-duty, that will undermine City government objectives or impair the proper performance of governmental functions." Barred conduct includes anything that interferes with "discipline or harmony among co-workers" or "undermines close working relationships that are essential to the effective performance of an employee's job duties."'

I would settle for barring public employees from voting in municipal elections.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1586005782965161985?t=vzGsGY0w2CVhPH-WCrERWg&s=19

The Left isn’t worried that they’ll be banned or targeted. They know that isn’t going to happen and nobody is calling for it. They are simply worried that other viewpoints will be heard. They know they cannot compete in a free and open ideological marketplace.

[Moonrocks]

Better way to phrase that: They don't fear being censored, they fear not being able to censor others.

[Nardz]

Totes really happened...

https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/1585840327817981953?t=_bDAPR9u1X6tU8vZoPppKQ&s=19

I’m getting more rape threats in the DMs than normal, but can’t log off and miss the chaos!

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Taylor Lorenz is so full of shit. Of course, she can get her uncle just to wipe the interwebs for her.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The irony here is that it’s only from those she allows to comment on her stream.

Who can reply?
People @TaylorLorenz follows or mentioned can reply

What a fucking drama queen.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

So literally everyone hates her, then?

[Moonrocks]

Maybe the leftist circles she runs with are just rape-yer than regular people.

[Briggs Cunningham]

That or Lorenze's fantasies are a bit rape-yer than she lets on. She is getting more rape threats and wouldn't want to miss them.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

AOC's already admitted to having fantasies of being deep-dicked by beefcake Republicans, so it's not a surprise that someone in her same socio-political class would feel the same way.

[Briggs Cunningham]

I would bet my mortgage payment that that and being gang banged by a bunch of black dudes are her go to sexual fantasies.

[R Mac]

Would libertarians suffice?

[I, Woodchipper]

Also, there is ZERO chance twitter will somehow start allowing rape threats via DM

[mad.casual]

I’m getting more rape threats in the DMs than normal, but can’t log off and miss the chaos!

I'm having trouble reading this as anything other than, "My drinks are getting roofied more than normal, but I can't stop drinking and miss the chaos!"

[BestUsedCarSales]

You should probably just read it as a lie.

[mad.casual]

I thought my interpretation kinda belied the old alcoholic "I am not an alcoholic. I don't have a problem, *you've* got a problem. I can quit any time I want!", uh, rubric, but apparently not.

Roofying drinks is bad and people shouldn't do that, but whether they are or aren't, she should lay off the Twitter.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

'You've got a drinking problem.'

'You're a fucking Mormon, everyone has a drinking problem to you.'

[Longtobefree]

First major change, clearly aimed at silencing the left; the BLUE checkmarks will be replaced with RED thumbs up.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

As long as it’s not the ok symbol.

Talk about a hellscape!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"The bird is freed." Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter is now official, and the Tesla CEO and world's richest man has already started making changes. Musk has reportedly fired some of the social media company's top executives.

Yes, and he started with that lying legal/trust and safety lawyer.

[Dace Highlander]

Coincidentally at exactly the same time that Musk tweeted "The bird is freed" there was an earthquake of 9.1 on the Gutenberg-Reichstag scale as reported by all liberal MSM outlets. Progressives hardest hit.

[Jerryskids]

"Colorado's Proposition 122 would decriminalize noncommercial activities related to the use of 'natural medicine' by adults 21 or older,"

Does this mean my powdered rhino horn and my tiger penis are back on the menu?

[mad.casual]

The word 'noncommercial' is rather... typical. In the current Reason fad: if you go out, pick some magic mushrooms, and slip them into kids' trick-or-treat bag, you're good (on the illegal substance side, poisoning/drugging people is still a crime). If an adult friend agrees to pay you for the knowingly 'magic' mushrooms that you picked, and you accept, you're in trouble.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Commercial is for profit, therefore icky.

[mad.casual]

It will be an interesting 'libertarian vs. weed and asssex libertine' litmus test. Especially if the libertines take the typical "How could anyone oppose (more) freedom?" stance.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

As long as you harvest your own rhino horn and tiger penis.

[BestUsedCarSales]

No, and even in the above case it's only at legally sanctioned healing clinics. Which apparently are non-commercial, and so the government may just be declaring things they like to be non-commercial, and things they dislike to be commercial.
Who knows? It's not particularly libertarian except in the Reason-tinged version meaning "I like drugs any way I can get them, don't care how."

[Utkonos]

The depends. What do you cut your tiger penis with?

[Sevo]

Droolin' Joe seems to think turd represents the voting public:

"Biden zeroes in on economic message as campaign winds down"
https://journalnow.com/business/biden-zeroes-in-on-economic-message-as-campaign-winds-down/article_0b020d8c-e9ac-558e-acb0-a966a103c8aa.html

I guess it's possible that the wreck he's made of the economy is 'good' compared to everything else he's fucked up.

[Moonrocks]

I guess they're going for the "repeat the lie often enough" strategy.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And by good, they mean not zombie-apocalypse everyone eating out of dumpsters Mad Max good.

[R Mac]

Eating out of dumpsters is a good learning experience.

— sarc

[creech]

The Fetterman campaign has complained that Fetterman's poor performance in the debate with Dr. Oz was due to errors in the captioning system selected (and approved by both candidates) by the network sponsoring the debate. So Dr. Oz has graciously offered to debate Fetterman again, allowing Fetterman to make the choice of captioning system and management. What are the odds tough guy, "make them listen in Washington" Fetterman will accept???

[mad.casual]

Meanwhile, inside the Fetterman campaign meeting:

Well, why don't we smooth his head down to nothing, stick a pumpkin under his arm and start calling him Ichabod Crane?

Hello, thank you, and good night everybody!

[ElvisIsReal]

LOL that's a pretty good response. I don't know much about Oz, but he was smart enough to not mention Fetterman's condition and just let the audience see it.

[Think It Through]

Yet The View gals accused him of "bullying" anyway. lmfao

[JasonAZ]

The Eagles!

[Dillinger]

>>Giving massages without a license can get you felony criminal charges in New York.

what if I offer them for free?

[Longtobefree]

As long as the politicians get paid, they don't care if you do or not.
License = bribe = tribute

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Musk said he wasn’t in it for the money but “to try to help humanity.”

While I took great pleasure watching some of the worst offenders in Twitter’s executive sphere walking out to their cars with their belongings in a cardboard box, it’s this I’m-not-in-it-for-the-money that’s kind of the big problem with Silicon Valley. There are simply too many shorts-and-sandal wearing trillionaire tech execs who are in it for that TedTalks-head-mic improving-the-human-condition building-the-New-Soviet-Man reasons, instead of being the swashbuckling free-market just-in-it-for-the-money reasons, while mainline libertarianism cheers on the former while acting like it’s the latter.

I wish Elon Musk well, because he’s going to get a LOT of scrutiny now, because *checks notes* around 97% of active twitter users are Journalists and are not happy seeing more speech in Tech.

Expect a lot of interviews with Taylor Lorenz about her rape threats.

*edit* and as we've already seen, expect a massive, overnight shift away from "they're just a private company, leave section 230 alone".

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yeah, Taylor Lorenz's "rape threats" on Twitter. Just ignore the fact that she limits who can reply to her posts on Twitter so there can't be an such threats whatsoever.

[mad.casual]

While I took great pleasure watching some of the worst offenders in Twitter’s executive sphere walking out to their cars with their belongings in a cardboard box, it’s this I’m-not-in-it-for-the-money that’s kind of the big problem with Silicon Valley. There are simply too many shorts-and-sandal wearing trillionaire tech execs who are in it for that TedTalks-head-mic improving-the-human-condition building-the-New-Soviet-Man reasons, instead of being the swashbuckling free-market just-in-it-for-the-money reasons, while mainline libertarianism cheers on the former while acting like it’s the latter.

I continue to be surprised about how the phrase 'Dead Head sticker on a Cadillac' continues to bounce into my skull.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

There's nothing wrong with altruism so long as it's well-directed and intelligent.

Of course, that definition *would* exclude a lot of what passes for altruism, but not all of it.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

as Mike Masnick wrote at Techdirt last year. "It's massive. And this is why whenever there's a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it's not personal.

Is Techdirt made up of complete retards or just people who are semi-retarded?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

What standard for retardedness are we using? ENB, Buttplug, or Jeffy?

[Moonrocks]

They're just doing a job.

[mad.casual]

Is Techdirt made up of complete retards or just people who are semi-retarded?

Is there a functional difference between a group of complete retards and a group of semi-retarded people catering to the lowest common denominator?

[I, Woodchipper]

it's only a massive job if you're frantically trying too protect the regime narrative.

If you just focus on child porn and death threats you will have an easy time "moderating"

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It wasn't done because someone doesn't like your politics. It wasn't done because of some crazy agenda.

Horseshit. Demonstrable horseshit.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

• Yes, you can yell “fire” in a crowded theater.

But not at a January 6 protest.

[Mike Laursen]

Wow, you had that in your hip pocket, ready to go?

[Don't look at me!]

I’m sure it was hard to find.

[R Mac]

Caw caw!

[Mother's Lament]

I'm glad that touched a nerve, Mike.

[Bill Godshall]

MONOPOLY WATCH: "Meta Platforms was worth around $922 billion at the end of 2021, but is currently worth around $272 billion, a shocking 70-percent decline in less than 12 months." https://statista.com/chart/28552/meta-companies-market-cap-year-end/

That's great news, and is what Zuckerberg deserves after giving millions of dollars to Democrat activists that helped Biden and left wing media propagandists rig the 2020 election so the Big Guy could get a victory (and cash in on Hunter's many deals with corrupt Chinese, Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs).

[mad.casual]

If only it were more causal rather than:
@Markzuckerberg: The younger generation is fleeing FB faster than ever! We need more than an ecosystem, we need a whole virtual reality, that we can moderate, to really get the kids back. Headsets, Avatars! Video conferencing! Remote learning! Teams! The whole 9 yards!
@Millennials: It could work...
@GenX: VR has been tried several times and has yet to find any real footing.
@Markzuckerberg: That was before high speed internet, social media, and modern technology.
@Millennials: Yeah, with more social cohesion and interconnectedness, we could synergize the shared human experiences between different peoples and create a more equitable digital world.
@Boomers: That sounds good.
*Zoomers have entered the chat*
@Zoomers: Brah, that sux. - Sent via mobile device.
@Markzuckerberg: What if I throw more money at it?
*Zoomers have left the chat*
*GenX has left the chat*
@Boomers: How much money are we talking?
@Millennials: As long as we remember that social and cultural equity is the goal, what does it matter?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm skeptical.

Zoomers left before Genx?

[mad.casual]

I’m skeptical.

Damn.

[Surrenders GenX membership card]

[Utkonos]

Let’s face it, we in GenX are just a group of punks.

[I, Woodchipper]

Dont forget the part where they colluded with the regime to ban and censor people the regime doesnt' like. It's WAY more than just "mah private company"

[Dillinger]

if you lose $650billion but are still worth $272billion do you even sad?

[Don't look at me!]

A bit.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Because most of that value is in unrealized gain, and the consequence could be, for instance, him having to sell off his majority share of Tesla, yes. He very well could come out of this badly.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Whoops, I just assumed this was about Twitter.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Now's your chance, Elon! Change out the bluebird for the metal bird from Judas Priest's Screaming for Vengeance album!

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I'm imagining a logo with a completely different kind of "bird".

[Utkonos]

Because he’s searching for middle ground?

[mad.casual]

"There are capitals all over this country that they could've protested at or they could've protested later when the capital was empty. No, their yelling was intended to cause emotional harm and that's not what the 1A protects."

[mad.casual]

Whoops, meant in reply to:

Diane Reynolds (Paul.)

• Yes, you can yell “fire” in a crowded theater.

But not at a January 6 protest.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Have you been watching any of the hearings on the Ottawa emergency order? They're a laugh riot.

During questioning, one police commissioner (or someone very high up-- I can look it up but I'm too lazy) said that the amount of violence was "shockingly low". He went on at some length about how remarkably peaceful the protest was.

Then another police commissioner came on and kept talking about "violence" of the protests. When questioned by the barrister about his definition of "violence" given what the previous official had said, he said the violence was "felt violence" which specifically meant the residents of Ottawa's hurt feelings. I'm not kidding.

[mad.casual]

When questioned by the barrister about his definition of “violence” given what the previous official had said, he said the violence was “felt violence” which specifically meant the residents of Ottawa’s hurt feelings.

Did he go to recruit Logan in the next scene and Hugh Jackman told him to 'fuck off'?

[Krokko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuJzSTNDUGI

[Moonrocks]

The whole point of protesting is to make people uncomfortable

-- Far-Right Insurrectionist

[I, Woodchipper]

"Sometimes it's difficult to get across to people 'the scale' part when we talk about the impossibility of content moderation at scale," as Mike Masnick wrote at Techdirt last year. "It's massive. And this is why whenever there's a content moderation decision that you dislike or that you disagree with, you have to realize that it's not personal.

What a disingenuous load of bullshit.

[JasonAZ]

Funny how that censoring is almost exclusive 1 direction.

Masnick and ENB are far left progressives and they're carrying water for the authoritarians. Don't forget it.

[I, Woodchipper]

wordpress sucks

[Think It Through]

""There is currently great danger that social media will splinter into far right wing and far left wing echo chambers that generate more hate and divide our society," Musk continued.

This is the proper way to look at it -- instead of "build your own."

Same with schools.

Separate-but-equal social media sites or apps, or "go to your own school where they teach what you want" may feel libertarian, but they are NOT the answer.

We need common areas (social media, schools) where all views are heard.

[perlmonger]

In this case, the parents allege that their children, an 8-year-old girl and a 9-year-old girl, each died while taking part in the "blackout challenge" in which participants film themselves holding their breath or asphyxiating until they pass out. In fact, in just over 18 months, at least seven children have died after apparently attempting the challenge.

Think of it as evolution in action.

[mad.casual]

Think of it as evolution in action.

Can I invoke TikTok as Dawkins' Blind Watchmaker as disproof of the internet, human civilization, and free will? Asking for a friend who wants you to know that he knows God's not real.

[perlmonger]

You can roll with that however you want. I just wanted to make the Niven and Pournelle reference. 😀

[BestUsedCarSales]

I wonder if this counts as a trend or not?

[Libertariantranslator]

I liked the old Twitter. Couldn't see or smell it from where I live, and it assembled force-initiating whack jobs somewhere I don't go.

[CE]

That version was gone two years ago though, once they were free to work from home. Which meant they could flee California and work from a state that has a functioning government run by the people they loathe. Maybe even your state.

[CE]

The anti-Musk freakouts by the Far Left is the best part though. Along with watching the rhetorical Mobius-strip logic of how Musk's plans to make Twitter a site for public discourse where people are free to disagree with one another is sure to bring on the Nazi Apocalypse.

[Utkonos]

WELP, RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION J6 & QANON ARE FRONT AND CENTER AGAIN!!
The man accused of breaking into House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s California home and severely beating her husband with a hammer appears to have made racist and often rambling posts online, including some that questioned the results of the 2020 election, defended former President Donald Trump and echoed QAnon conspiracy theories.
https://ktla.com/news/california/ap-suspect-in-assault-at-pelosi-home-had-posted-about-qanon/
I wonder who this is convenient for one week before the big day? (I mean besides home security system companies pointing out to Nancy that her home really should have one!)
Hope tomorrow’s food article isn’t about breweries again, cuz there’s gonna be a lot of beer-holding in the comments section!

[Mike Laursen]

So, what are you hinting at? It was a “false flag” operation?

[Truthfulness]

That has happened before, you know. See Jussie Smollett.

[JimboJr]

Interested if the racist and rambling posts of the Waukesha red SUV driver will be given more scrutiny in this light.

You know, being that he was a BLM supporter, made music with lyrics talking about attacking white people, complained about whites, and then mowed down a bunch of white people...probably not relevant. Not a hate crime, not racist, didnt happen.

[Libertariantranslator]

Wasn't the hammer-beater House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy?

[John C. Randolph]

Interesting to see how quickly the "MAGA nutjob was trying murder Nancy Pelosi" story crumbled now that Twitter isn't suppressing information.

Now, Paul Pelosi certainly didn't deserve to be bashed in the head with a hammer, but if he had been in jail for drunk driving as he did deserve, this wouldn't have happened.

-jcr

[JasonT20]

And Musk's stated goal of making Twitter "the most respected advertising platform in the world" may also run into conflict with making it a haven for free speech. Companies are notoriously skittish about what content appears around their ads and have long tried to exert control over traditional media platforms (like magazines and TV stations) if content isn't to their liking.

And this is why I am highly skeptical that Elon Musk really has such pure motives for buying Twitter. It is fine to say that he didn't buy it to make more money, but it something else for it to become a money sink for him.

And Free Speech is all well and good, but what about privacy? How will Musk deal with policies regarding users' data?

[Vernon Depner]

Damn...I was really looking forward to the free-for-all hellscape.

[Libertariantranslator]

President Herbert Hoover swore to see that the dry laws were faithfully executed even after the Jones Law made beer a felony, bragged in December 1929 that "Capital is becoming more abundant..." now that faith-based prohibitionism had replaced the Rum Evil and replaced the Hellscape. "This is a far cry from the arbitrary and dog-eat-dog attitude of the business world of some 30 or 40 years ago." Herbert Hoover is worshipped by God's Own Prohibitionists as the Right Honorable patron saint of "capitalism."

[Tony]

The US government holds some blame for Elon's runaway ego, considering he owes most of his wealth to being its biggest welfare baby. If he had managed to keep his stupid mouth shut, maybe they wouldn't be shopping around for different brands of spaceship.

It's a depressing spectacle. Maybe it's only my own gargantuan ego that immunizes me from falling lockstep in line with countless internet nerds and government functionaries in assuming some cosmic genius exists where a man-baby stands. All I had to do was watch one vacuous Ted Talk of his to get his number. He's not a smart person. Smart people know what they don't know, and none ever thinks he knows everything.

Now he thinks he knows more than the people at Twitter who have put years of painstaking work into figuring out how to have social media without it being overrun by lies and obscenity. All of that wiped away with the invocation of "free speech absolutism," one of the more high-profile examples of the fallacy "it's so simple it must be true." And "it's so simple only a great genius such as myself and some half-literate jerkoffs on the internet could have come up with it."

[Mickey Rat]

In the Left's view then, Musk took their bribes and had the temerity to not stay bought, so now he is some kind of incompetent madman in their eyes as he won't "keep his mouth shut". Your take on Musk says more about you and your side than it does about Musk.

[SoSoCoCoMoFo]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/30/elon-musk-twitter-baseless-conspiracy-theory-paul-pelosi-attack

Hilarious.

[Mickey Rat]

I seem to remember hearings in which Democrat Congress Members and Senators claimed that moderation was super easy and the platforms were not doing proper moderation for nefarious reasons.

Now this article is saying that it is stupendously difficult and we should not take it personally if our thoughts and opinions get purged.

Stuff it.