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Birthright Citizenship Re-Examined (from an Originalist Perspective)
Professor Michael Ramsey revisits the original public meaning of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause.
Noted originalist scholar Michael Ramsey has a potentially important new paper on birthright citizenship: "Birthright Citizenship Re-Examined," forthcoming in the Notre Dame Law Review. This article is something of a sequel to Ramsey's 2020 paper, "Originalism and Birthright Citizenship."
The draft of "Birthright Citizenship Re-Examined" is available on SSRN. Here is the abstract:
In 2020, I argued in Originalism and Birthright Citizenship that the original meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment's Citizenship Clause guaranteed U.S. citizenship to almost everyone born in the United States apart from the children of foreign diplomats and (at the time it was adopted) tribal Native Americans. President Trump's 2025 executive order purporting to exclude from birthright citizenship the U.S.-born children of temporary visitors and of persons not lawfully present in the United States has brought the issue to the forefront and inspired prominent originalist counterarguments. In particular, two leading originalist-oriented scholars—Kurt Lash and Ilan Wurman—separately argue that the original meaning's citizenship guarantee is narrower than I contended.
This Article responds to these new originalist assessments of the Citizenship Clause. Notably, although these scholars both reject the broadest reading of the Citizenship Clause, they disagree between themselves as to the clause's correct reading and scope. Professor Lash's account would exclude U.S.-born children of parents unlawfully present in the United States (thus defending the executive order only in part). Professor Wurman argues that the clause may guarantee citizenship to U.S.-born children of alien parents only if the parents are lawful permanent residents; this approach would find the President's executive order consistent with the clause's original meaning.
Evaluating each of these contentions in turn, this Article concludes that neither of them is persuasive. Rather, this Article reaffirms the conclusion that the Citizenship Clause's broad language ("All persons born… in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States….") encompasses all U.S.-born persons over whom the United States exercised sovereign authority at birth.
This article, like other recent work, adds to the ongoing debate about the precise scope of the Fourteenth Amendment's citizenship clause.
I continue to believe the arguments for the conventional account are more compelling than the revisionist accounts that would undermine the scope of birthright citizenship, particularly if one believes the question should be answered by the original public meaning of the clause, as opposed to a living constitutionalist theory. I also believe the question that is most up for debate is not the operation of the clause itself, but the extent to which Congress may adjust the contours of birthright citizenship by using its Section Five power to define or redefine what it means to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Yet because Congress has made no effort to enact such legislation, that is not a question that bears on the proper resolution of Barbara v. Trump, the case the Supreme Court will consider this spring. It is rather a question for another day.
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This is a very easy case. It is undisputed that after 14A was ratified all children of immigrants were citizens. This is because there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Congress can not make a subset of a population and then deny them rights they already had.
WAG on the upcoming case:
6-3 with maybe the same lineup as the tariffs.
Within the 6, a split decision. 3 say, as you do, that it's straight from the constitution. 3 say the president has no authority on this and they don't need to resolve whether Congress could do it.
What do you predict?
I will hold my prediction until after oral arguments.
City of Boerne established that only the courts can determine what "subject to the jurisdiction" in 14A means. Thus, whether the president has the authority under 14A would entirely depend on what that meaning is. Thus, SCOTUS can't escape defining "subject to the jurisdiction" by saying the president doesn't have 14A authority.
On the other hand, SCOTUS could limit its holding that "subject to the jurisdiction" in 8 U.S. Code § 1401 means Trump's EO is not legal. That is, Trump does not have statutory authority while leaving the 14A question unanswered (it's possible that the statute provides greater birthright citizenship than 14A).
Here we go again.
Obfuscating the argument with terms such as 'immigrants' instead of the more precise 'alien without legal entry', will end the debate. This is the true argument - aliens without legal entry can never be citizens nor their offspring born here. Not having legal entry bars their being under the jurisdiction of the USA.
Your argument is not a constitutional argument, since it isn't based on the text or any of the accepted meanings of "jurisdiction". It's simply an announcement of your policy preferences, which (tough luck) are prohibited by the 14th Amendment.
You make up an engineered one-time only definition of jurisdiction that bizarrely involves parentage and allegiance. That's no more valid than if I define "jurisdiction" as "parents aren't Republicans" or "parents believe in transgender rights".
Not having legal entry bars their being under the jurisdiction of the USA.
Fuckwit, this would mean that the US would have no right to charge them with any crimes, for want of jurisdiction.
The "no such thing as an illegal immigrant" bit is gratuitous.
Birthright citizenship was the traditional rule. One amicus brief, e.g., discusses 'gypsies,' who were considered "illegal immigrants" in Britain. A gypsy child born on British soil, however, was still considered a British subject. More here:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/25/25-365/395294/20260203111938269_260104a%20AC%20Brief%20for%20efiling.pdf
Antebellum policy included keeping certain people out. A state, e.g., might bar people with certain diseases or public charges. If they broke the law and came in, they would be "illegal immigrants."
That doesn't change the overall issue. It's an unnecessary red herring.
The 14A was ratified in 1868. The law that predates it is not relevant. 14A was written to change the law, not maintain the status quo.
The history shows there WAS such a thing as an illegal immigrant. The 14A doesn't erase the possibility of illegal immigrants.
The history is also relevant to help understand the text, including "subject to the jurisdiction."
The core change is to erase the artificial exception outlined in Dred Scott to the traditional broad rule. The history is relevant there too.
State's don't set citizenship rules post 14th amend though do they? I .e, a state may have domicile rules or other things for how to establish legal residency in the state but the 14th says all persons born in the US are citizens of the united states AND the state where they reside. So I think a state cannot do or offer less than the constitution commands (i.e, the 14th amend sets the floor).
That appears correct.
There is still no such thing as an illegal immigrant.
"subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
If the U.S. has jurisdiction to tax or draft someone, that person is subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.
If that person is the child of tourists that are not subject to U.S. taxation or drafting but that remain subject to their own countries' laws, that child does not become a U.S. citizen.
Immigrants, whether illegal or not, are required to pay taxes. Their kids are citizens. Visitors, such as tourists, are not similarly subject to U.S. jurisdiction and their kids are not citizens.
1. What is your text or precedent justification to limit it to "tax or draft"? Why not "haul someone into a US court" which is the usual definition?
2. Do you think tourists might by some gasoline? Gasoline has a federal tax and they pay it. Sounds like that meets your requirement.
3. And as always and every single time this comes up: the 14th Amendment does not mention parents at all. The jurisdiction in question is over the child, not the parents. Please separately and cleanly show why you are justified in equating the two.
Let's not forget that at the time of the 14th Amendment's passage, there was no federal income tax. Federal tax revenue came from duties on imports and from excise taxes, which weren't paid directly by individuals, but were incorporated into the prices of goods that they purchased. Citizens, non-citizen immigrants, and tourists from foreign countries all equally paid those taxes when they bought stuff; so "subject to U.S. taxation" seems to have little or no relevance to the original meaning of the Amendment.
That's right. Jurisdiction in the 14A meant not subject to a foreign power. It had nothing to do with taxes.
Hear! Hear!
The biggest problem with the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means what it says argument is that Congress contemporaneously made laws allowing people born or naturalized in the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof to renounce their citizenship.
That's a big problem for the renunciation law, not for the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment.
IANASCJ but if I were, I'd say the most Congress can do is exempt birthright renouncers from things that were at Congress' discretion anyway. They remain citizens and can claim the rights of a citizen anytime regardless of any words said or actions taken, here or abroad.
Even on dual citizenship, the most Congress can theoretically do is punish US birthright citizens, as citizens, for acquiring dual citizenship. No part of the punishment for this, or any other crime, can be loss of US citizenship.
It's a big problem for both, and the renunciation law isn't being challenged right now.
It's evidence that despite what the plain meaning appears to be, the clause throughout its history hasn't been interpreted as an exhaustive list of who counts as a citizen, and that there might be some room for Congress to control edge cases.
I suppose you could argue the Sotomayer unconstitutional amendment theory, that renunciation of citizenship is a fundamental right, and can't be abrogated by the 14A.
the clause throughout its history hasn't been interpreted as an exhaustive list of who counts as a citizen
True but all that means is that Congress can extend citizenship to more than those required by the 14th Amendment. Any defining of the edges of the set of citizens needs to totally enclose the 14th Amendment.
that renunciation of citizenship is a fundamental right, and can't be abrogated by the 14A.
That's not my argument. Mine is the somewhat the opposite: the 14th Amendment is specifically what forbids renunciation for those covered by the birthright clause. Congress could let naturalized citizens renounce, although I think creating such distinctions is harmful policy.
IMO once someone is a citizen, there should be no distinctions under any conditions. If someone lied on their naturalization form, put them in prison for perjury, but they keep the citizenship. But that's just my preferred policy, Congress has control over naturalization.
First off—being born in America has nothing to do with NBC because Adams offspring were born overseas and obviously sons of American diplomats could become president.
So citizenship of parents is important to NBC and thus at least one parent must be a citizen because otherwise a family could take their baby away and America has no power over that baby if neither parent is a citizen. So Rubio and Haley have older siblings that aren’t NBC and so why would they be NBC just by not being born in Canada or Cuba like their older siblings??
Logic error. You are mixing up all A are B with all B are A.
All citizens via the birthright clause are natural born citizens.
That does not mean that all natural born citizens got via the birthright clause.
Natural born just means citizen at the time of birth, as opposed to going through naturalization. US law grants citizenship to children born overseas to citizen parents. Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen but he did not get it via the 14th Amendment.
Ted Cruz and George Romney might not be NBCs because their parents were exiles and had an adversarial relationship with the American government. But John McCain is an example of a NBC born overseas.
the fact that this debate persists just shows why birthright citizenship needs to go.
some worthless spics show up at the u.s. border and falsely claim asylum. they're released into the united states to await their court hearing, years out. in the meantime, the little 5'5 biped indigenous sticks his tiny little pecker into his duck shaped wife's nasty vag. 9 months later, a little brown indigenous baby comes out of the disgusting woman's body in a u.s. hospital, as our expense.
that defective biped should not be a u.s. citizen.
Please don't respond to the troll, that's what they want. Just mute.
While the comment was inelegant at best (not gonna try and describe it at worst) the substance carries weight with a significant number of people. Legal immigrants basically have to show at least a minimum level of ability to support themselves and not rely on public welfare; or at least that is what is true in theory.
America has one of the most open borders of any country anywhere. As a cruiser (on my 42 foot sailing catamaran) I have traveled to many countries and gone through customs multiple times. One topic that often comes up with sailors relates to entering a country and finding work even if you entered legally. The bottom line is every country I have ever legally entered had what is termed 'don't break my rice bowl' attitude.
Mute as many posters as you want but (correct or not) there is a widespread feeling illegal aliens should not be granted de facto/de jure citizenship if they have babies and ignoring that feeling is a fools errand.
As an aside the 14A is a piece of shit that was only passed at the point of a gun with some crazy Schrödinger's Cat 'they are states and they are not states' at the same time.
The 14th amendment doesn't grant the parents citizenship. Its the fucking child. You are typing in English - so you can read it. Read the fucking words and rub your two salty brain cells together and THINK.
And the comment above yours is not just inelegant. Its racist drivel. Minimizing that comment is bullshit. Its like saying the Hindenburg disaster was a fine air ship trip with a mildly displeasant landing. Be better.
Reading comprehension is your friend. My point was 14A was passed using force of arms and a crazy disqualification of elected representatives so they could be replaced by lacky representatives who would vote as they were told. If an illegal alien has kids that are granted citizen ship the illegal alien can then petition for family reunification and get citizenship. Your ignorance is shocking.
If your position is that 14th Amendment isn't even an amendment and you aren't bound by it, then it's kind of pointless for you to have an opinion on what a non-existent amendment means. And even more pointless for anyone to listen to your opinion.
You're also fail to understand the difference between ordinary law and the constitution. Family reunion is a law, not derived from any 14th Amendment requirement. Congress is not required to make the parents into citizens because of the 14th Amendment. It's amazing that you could be so stupid and then call someone else ignorant.
My position is 14A only passed because of 5A violations. There have been books written about all the issues with its' passage. No one with an IQ above room temperature would dispute the 5A violations. Your ignorance is shocking.
The comment is racist. End of story.
I'm actually not so sure. Jussie keeps creating new handles, throwing out grotesquely caricatured stuff like this, and vanishing. Almost like the objective is just to keep messages like this as visible as possible so as to then be able to maximally hand-wring about same.
How is your day going Justin Smollett?
This is simple. The people who don't agree with the principle of birthright citizenship are basically saying, because I disapprove of birthright citizenship, it can't be allowed, regardless of the law.
What they should be doing instead is trying to get a constitutional amendment passed removing BC.
See my post from above about 14A being a piece of shit. If Trump stationed troops in state legislatures and made states not states if they did not vote for an amendment preventing birthright citizenship would you say that is a big OK. 14A is a piece of shit and there is no way to sugar coat it.
Then get a constitutional amendment passed repealing the parts you don't like.
Also, the circumstances were very different from your hypothetical. The Confederate states were actually enemies of the US and lost a war. That is not the case in your hypo
Can I post armed federal troops to assure the legislators vote the way I want and remove those who don't vote as I say.
The southern states left the Union on their own. Accepting the US constitution is a legitimate condition of re-entry.
Were the states in the Union or not in the Union, can't have it both ways unless you are Schrödinger's Cat.
Jeebus what a dumb argument. How can a Congressman take the oath of office, if they aren't a Congressman? The answer is that taking the oath is exact point at which they become a Congressman.
The readmission of those states was simultaneous with, and defined by, their ratification. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 automatically readmitted states when they got all the boxes checked off, and ratification was one of the boxes. NC ratified on July 4, 1868 and that is exactly the date listed for their readmission, because that's when they ratified.
You are simply wrong on the historical facts. The Southern states elected representatives who would not vote for 14A (it failed in the first vote) so the feds simply kicked them out saying the Southern states were not states (even when maintaining the position they did not legally leave the Union) and disqualified the elected representatives and many white voters from voting while assuring new elected representatives would vote for 14A. This was a clear 5A violation.
After the Civil War the federal position was the Confederate states never legally left the union. The federal position was also that they were not real states when it came to voting on 14A.
If people want to read a bunch of briefs from various perspectives, check here:
https://www.scotusblog.com/cases/case-files/trump-v-barbara/
The Catholic Bishops' brief is powerfully written.
Any views on how the court will vote? + means pro BC, - means anti, +/- means concurring in part, dissenting in part.
MY view:
JR: + (and writes the decision)
NG: +
ACB: +
EK: +
SS: +
KJB: +
BK: +/-
CT: -
SA: -
Agreed but will the +'s settle the whole thing once and for all by ruling what the clause means?
Or will some of them just say the Prez had no authority to do this, leaving the question open for eternal back-and-forth in Congress.
One issue is that one of the common themes in law is that someone shouldn't benefit from an illegal action. If someone steals $100,000 from a bank and gives it to their child, the government will take back that $100,000 from the child...even though the child didn't necessarily do anything wrong.
Likewise, if someone illegally sneaks into the US to give birth to their child in the US, and "give" them US Citizenship as a result, it again runs into the theme that "someone shouldn't benefit from an illegal action".
Nice idea. However, a constitutional amendment renders that principle void in this specific instance. Get an amendment passed.
BTW, if the government commits the illegal act, should they be permitted to profit from it?
" a constitutional amendment renders that principle void in this specific instance."
Potentially. There's that pesky clause "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
Let's examine a clear situation that is fully considered not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". That is one of "enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory". So, if an army invades and a woman within that army, in hostile occupation of the land, gives birth, the child is not considered a US Citizen. And yet...why not? Do not the laws of the United States still apply in that territory that is seized, de jure? Does the mere act of a hostile army occupying a territory or state invalidate the laws? It does not.
What this argument refers to is the difference in "being subject" in a de facto versus de jure situation. And it falls under the concept that the individual must be de facto a subject.
Let's further consider some sample situations.
In situation one, an armed group of 100 men and 1 pregnant woman cross the border from Canada into Maine, illegally entering. They "occupy" the land, 1 square mile. The woman gives birth. The 102 individuals now leave. Is the newly born individual a US citizen? The hostile army exemption would say no. The individuals in question are not subject to US law, de facto.
But let's lower the number of people. What if it's only 10 armed men (and a pregnant woman)? 5 armed men? 1 armed man? One very angry and armed pregnant woman? When does the individual in question become de facto a subject to US law?
One might make the argument that in order to be "de facto" subject to US law, one must have actually "subjected" themselves to US law. For example, by going through the customs process at the border. As opposed to avoiding it, in an illegal entry.
The 14A was written to make freed slaves into citizens, if born in the USA. It was not to make citizens out of the children of tourists. No one wanted that. The above essay has a lot of opinion, but not much originalism.
14A does not limit itself to former slaves.
And the 2nd Amendment was about muskets and the 1st Amendment was about newspapers and pamphlets.
Bottom line, everyone here has an opinion about what the law should say, makes the assumption everyone else does (or at least should) agree with them, and twists and turns the original text to fit their narrative.
By your argument, if someone is here illegally, they are not under the jurisdiction of the USA. Therefor, they cannot be arrested by American police nor triad in American courts.
Not the first time I have made the argument the 14A is a piece of shit. I see a lot of crap about Trump being a dictator. Problem is the 14A was passed by a real dictator who stationed armed federal troops in state legislators to assure they would vote for it after replacing elected legislators with new ones under the guise of some Schrödinger's Cat thing that states were not states at the same time they were states. Anyone who tries to defend 14A as anything but a pile of steaming dog shit that should be ignored on its face has shit for brains.
And the 14A was never properly ratified.
The president has zero role in constitutional amendments.
"The president has zero role in constitutional amendments."
Who ordered armed federal troops to make sure legislators voted the way the president wanted. How you like it if someone stuck a gun up your ass if you did not post the way they wanted.
False analogy. In the bank example, the bank is an actual victim and is out 100k. Taking that back from the child to give to the bank makes the bank whole.
In the illegal immigrant has a baby on US territory scenario...who is the victim of the illegal entry? You want to punish the baby (by stripping them of birthright citizenship) to punish the parent. Using your example, that would be like charging the baby with possession of stolen property (the 100k) when you know they are innocent and didn't do anything wrong. What does our law tradition say about doing that?
The American people are the victims of the invaders. The aliens are not being punished, but being repatriated to their proper jurisdiction.
Another Marxist Democrat tool to destroy the United States of America, birthright tourism. How many of the Chinese clients of their CCP handlers have the Democrats granted American citizenship to this year. The Biden's sold out the United States cheaply to Xi Jinping.