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My House Judiciary Subcommittee Testimony Against the "Preserving a Sharia-Free America Act"
I will be testifying against this proposed legislation - which would authorize exclusion or deportation of all or most non-citizen Muslim immigrants.

Tomorrow, I will be testifying against the proposed "Preserving a Sharia-Free America Act" at a hearing before the US House of Representatives Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution and Limited Government. My written testimony, already submitted to the Subcommittee is available here. Here is an excerpt from the Introduction, summarizing my testimony:
I am grateful for the opportunity to address some of the important issues raised by the proposed "Preserving a Sharia-Free America Act." My conclusions about this bill are clear and unequivocal: It is manifestly unconstitutional, in violation of the First Amendment. In addition, the vast majority of immigrant adherents of Sharia law – a category that includes all or most Muslims – pose no threat and there is no good reason to bar them from the United States.
The proposed legislation states that "Any alien in the United States found to be an adherent of Sharia law by the Secretary of State, Secretary of Homeland Security, or Attorney General shall have any immigration benefit, immigration relief, or visa revoked, be considered inadmissible or deportable, and shall be removed from the United States." This provision amounts to blatant discrimination on the basis of religious belief. As such, it violates both the Free Speech Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.
In addition, expelling virtually all Muslim immigrants would needlessly harm many thousands of people and is not necessary to combat terrorism or any other threat to the United States. Far from seeking to undermine America's liberal democratic values, most Muslim immigrants – like those of other faiths – have come precisely because of those values. If enacted, the legislation would harm national security by playing into the hands of radical Islamists and terrorists.
The rest of the testimony covers the constitutional and policy issues in more detail, including explaining why there is no immigration exception to the First Amendment which allows exclusion and deportation of immigrants on the basis of their speech and religious beliefs. It also explains why discrimination on on the basis of religion is unconstitutional even with respect to rights and government benefits that are not themselves constitutional rights. These points are supported by Supreme Court precedents backed by conservative justices.
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Sharia law? Republicans are so desperate for an issue we have to deal with made up spit like the threat of Sharia law?
Yes.
I think it has something to do with the globalizing of the far right. In Europe a lot of the bigotry is Muslimbaiting.
The US did that 20 years ago, but some are thinking we may be due for it again.
Hence Somalis.
You don't think it could actually be something about Muslims, instead? Like, every country they're in control of being a hellhole, and rational people not wanting their own countries to become hellholes?
The UAE is a hellhole? Jordan? Saudi?
Yeah, Some of them are prosperous hellholes, thanks to oil, mind you.
UAE Freedom House rating:
5/40 for political rights
13/60 for Civil liberties.
Jordan Freedom House rating, a bit better:
12/40 political rights
22/60 Civil liberties.
Saudi Arabia Freedom House rating:
1/40 political rights
8/60 Civil liberties.
For local contrast, Israel:
34/40 Political rights
39/60 Civil liberties.
Or let's look at the best of the lot, the majority Muslim country with the best rating, Sengal:
30/40 Political rights
39/60 Civil rights.
Hey, not bad! Comparable to the worst EU member, Hungary:
24/40 Political rights
40/60 Civil liberties.
By contrast,
USA:
34/40 Political rights
50/60 Civil liberties.
UK:
39/40 Political rights
53/60 Civil liberties. (With a note that there are troubling trends.)
France:
38/40 Political rights
51/60 Civil rights.
Yes, I stand by what I said: If you like being even minimally free, the last thing you want is for your country to become more like a Muslim country. Unless I suppose your country is already a hellhole, in which case you might pray you end up like Sengal.
There are lots of Muslims that cause problems in Europe. A much lesser proportion in the USA though, at least arguably.
Ask the people of germany, Sweden, Britain, France, Belgium what they thing of the importation of a culture that wants to destroy western civilization.
A culture that has very high rate of rape,
A culture that treats women as slaves,
A culture (religion ) that believes that infidels should be killed.
Does anyone screaming bigotry notice the hatred toward the religious right from the left, yet the embracement of a culture that adheres to extremism vastly worse than the religious right. Or the embracement of a culture that tramples women's rights.
So I assume your testimony concludes with a call for the abolition of 1st Amendment, 5th Amendment, and 14th Amendment protections for the practice of Islam and its practitioners via constitutional amendment at the end?
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions.
That Somin is allowed to give testimony to Congress is a disgrace.
"So I assume your testimony concludes with a call for the abolition of 1st Amendment, 5th Amendment, and 14th Amendment protections for the practice of Islam and its practitioners via constitutional amendment at the end?"
Where do you get that, denizen? Have you read the bill that Professor Somin links?
The bill on its face, at least as to aliens already present in the United States, flagrantly violates the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. Allowing the Secretary of State, Secretary of Homeland Security, or Attorney General to make unilateral, unreviewable determinations violates the First Amendment Petition for Redress of Grievances Clause, as well as the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause and the various provisions of the Constitution which have been interpreted to establish the Separation of Powers. The predictable disparate impact upon Muslims violates the Equal Protection component of the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause as well.
Allowing Cabinet secretaries to determine whether someone has violated 18 U.S.C. § 1001 runs afoul of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments regarding the rights of the accused in criminal proceedings.
Again, aliens do not have a First Amendment right when it comes to their admittance or remaining in the country. I realize many people are trying to invent one, including you and Somin here.
Aliens are also not owed the due process you think they are. Especially to have every immigration grievances adjudicated by an Article III court. Jurisdiction stripping is not a violation of the separation of powers here.
As people such as yourself like to remind us regularly, immigration decisions are civil, not criminal proceedings. Sorry not sorry.
As the Supreme Court said in Agency for International Development v. Alliance for Open Society (2020), a First Amendment case , the rights protected by the Constitution simply do not apply to extra-territorial aliens, “It is long settled as a matter of American international law that foreign citizens outside US territory do not possess rights under the US Constitution.”
It may be bad policy. It may be really rotten policy. But immigration is a matter of foreign policy, and the political branches have plenary power over foreign policy, however unwise, impolitic, or just plain dumb.
Right, foreigners have no USA constitutional rights to invade the USA.
This awful bill would expel legal Muslim immigrants already in the US.
It was a mistake to let them in. We can only expel the ones who are here.
MAGAs are the biggest bigots on the planet.
"Biggest bigots"? What a cunning linguist.
I agree they are bigots, but you'll find profoundly worse in many of these dictatorships around the world, as well as all nominal democracies lousy with corruption, and Europe, I'd wager.
This is not a contest, just a sad state of reality.
Ask the rape victims in Britain by grooming rape gangs of "asian:" men if they are bigoted.
I mean, it was a mistake that your mother didn't abort you, but that's what we're stuck with.
It was a mistake to let them in. We can only expel the ones who are here.
But you can't expel the ones who are here, on the basis of their speech or religion, because once they are here the constitution protects them.
As the Supreme Court said in the piece quoted above, “It is long settled as a matter of American international law that foreign citizens outside US territory do not possess rights under the US Constitution.” Note those key words, "outside US territory". As soon as they set foot in the US they do possess those rights.
They do have rights and they have obligations to follow American laws, and the misogyny, polygamy, and pedophilia of Sharia contradicts American law. See the Mormons as an example.
If misogyny were illegal than all MAGAs would be in jail, starting with Trump.
Legally, you actually CAN expel the ones who are here, on the basis of their speech, if the speech demonstrates that they were likely inadmissible in the first place.
Big if.
You would have to show that they were inadmissible in the first place, and you would have to do it on the basis of their speech abroad, before they came here. And you would have to show that they were inadmissible under the policies in place at that time, not the ones you've got now.
"You would have to show that they were inadmissible in the first place,"
Pretty much.
"and you would have to do it on the basis of their speech abroad, before they came here."
And I'm not so sure about that. I think speech after admission actually CAN be considered evidence that you were inadmissible before admission.
"And you would have to show that they were inadmissible under the policies in place at that time, not the ones you've got now."
Hm, probably. Though there are formal vs informal policies, and you might be able to make the case that they were formally inadmissible at the time, and that any contrary policy was just a policy of prosecutorial discretion which created no legal right.
To be clear, I think Trump is probably reaching too far. But I also think he can legally go a lot further in the direction he wants to go than Ilya would claim.
“It is long settled as a matter of American international law that foreign citizens outside US territory do not possess rights under the US Constitution.”
It may be bad policy. It may be really rotten policy. But immigration is a matter of foreign policy, and the political branches have plenary power over foreign policy, however unwise, impolitic, or just plain dumb.
Did you read this part:
The proposed legislation states that "Any alien in the United States found to be an adherent of Sharia law by the Secretary of State, Secretary of Homeland Security, or Attorney General shall have any immigration benefit, immigration relief, or visa revoked, be considered inadmissible or deportable, and shall be removed from the United States." (emphasis added).
Note "Any...adherent of Sharia law."
So a Muslim can be deported for obeying dietary laws? Or praying?
What about a Jew who keeps kosher and observes the Sabbath?
A Catholic who goes to confession, or contributes to the church?
Jews and Catholics do not believe in religious control of the legal system, as Moslems do. Keeping kosher or going to confession are obligations among the observant followers, but not considered legal obligations.
You’ve clearly never heard of common-good constitutionalism.
Or the
ideaobservation politics are religions, giant clusters of ideas aka memes, evolving to gather a critical mass to grab at power so they no longer need rely on mere persuasion.Islam considers the entire globe under the control of Allah and his legal system.
No, traditioal Judaism has a system of law analogous to Sharia. It also has courts to decide questions of law and make and enforce judgments. The question of what is or is not kosher, for example, is a legal question, and when a rabbi is asked such a question, the rabbi is acting as a legal advisor or judge, consulting a body of precedent issued by more prestigious rabbis who effectively function as appellate courts, although they are consulted by the rabbis themselves when there are difficult questions rather than appealed to by litigants.
As far as you're talking about Judaism, this is a little bit right and a bunch not really right. There are definitely parallels between sharia and halacha; both address things that most Americans would think of as religious questions (dietary restrictions, how to observe various holidays, appropriate dress, etc.) as well as things that most Americans would think of as secular (inheritance, business matters, etc.) But a beis din — a Jewish court, which in the U.S. is deemed an arbitral body — does not decide questions like "Is this kosher?" It decides the same sorts of questions that secular U.S. courts would decide. Torts, contracts, etc. And a rabbi who gives you advice is neither acting as a legal advisor nor judge.
But I digress from the topic of this thread. I suppose that by "adherent of Sharia law" the bigots mean someone who wants to chop off the hands of thieves, stone gay people — although most of the people who think that would approve of stoning gay people — and ban pork.
Anyone who wants to eat crap food and go a whole day with no modern conveniences is only punishing themselves.
I understand why Islamophobes would want this route rather than a clearly unconstitutional ban on Muslims. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks Sharia law itself needs to be banned. Does someone think there is any real chance of any jurisdiction ever replacing the judicial system we have with Sharia law?
(Of course some will whine that Islamophobes are trying something clever. You partisan hacks can buzz right off.)
Sharia law is a legal system, not a religious belief. Islam includes a lot of religious and non-religious beliefs. Keeping out believers in incompatible legal systems is more like keeping out Communists, which the USA constitution permits.
You're both wrong and bigoted.
Sharia law is a legal system, not a religious belief.
No shit sherlock. That's why I said
What I don't understand is why anyone thinks Sharia law itself needs to be banned. Does someone think there is any real chance of any jurisdiction ever replacing the judicial system we have with Sharia law?
There is no separation of church and state in Islam.
Nor in evangelical Christianity.
Nor in the other power-grabbing religions of Democrats or Republicans.
Their churches have all the pieces, promises to make your life better, after a 5 year plan instead of after you die, down the road, help the poor and sick, that other religion over there are a bunch of hellbound dupes lead by actively evil demons, standing on the corners loudly praying so everyone can see them.
Again, Judiasm has a legal system which is every bit as comprehensive as Islam and includes civil law, family law, and much else. Catholicism’s system of law is not as comprehensive as Judiasm or Islam, but it too has both an extensive body of law and professional lawyers and judges.
Further, well-established Supreme Court precedent treats religious law as every bit as much part of a religion as any other tenet.
Outsiders don’t get to gerrymander thee definitin of “religion” so as to exclude religions they don’t like. While there can be arguments about something somebody newly comes up with, if historical world religions have commonly done something, it’s not just open to say it isn’t a religious thing. And legal systems are something multiple historical world religions have done.
It’s like saying Christianity is fine, the problem is belief in Jesus. It’s just not open to say belief in Jesus isn’t really a “religious” belief.
Here too don’t get to define religion to your convenience. You can’t claim that something you don’t like isn’t “religion” as an end run around the First Amenfment.
There is a special exception for people outside US territory, and for people who entered here illegally it might be arguable. But for people who came here legally, it’s completely out of bounds to deport them because of their religion.
The constitution gives only “the people” the right to petition their government. This limitation potentially lets government restrict lobbying by foreigners who aren’t legal residents, and may perhaps justify some restrictions on their political speech. But whether or not that’s the case, the Religion Clauses have no such limitation. They apply wherever constitutional rights apply.
There are a few cities (suburbs of Detroit) where the Muslim population is high enough to be a potential test case.
So far limited to a few Muslim-friendly ordinances: loosening noise limits for calls to prayer, taking down city-flown pride flags. One now allows home animal sacrifice if it's otherwise humane.
Nothing like sharia. On the other hand, system-level changes might require enough pull at the state level, which there's not enough Muslim population to acquire.
I live in the Detroit area. Muslims, well, middle easterners, are all over the place now, not just Dearborn.
And the food is wonderful! Don't anyone deport them!
One thing I miss since moving from Michigan are the Dearborn hams. But I don't think the Muslims are responsible for them.
Yes, actually I think there is some chance. Because Muslims punch way above their weight class when it comes to political violence, and multiple countries have demonstrated that sort of political violence works. Political elites tend to accommodate minorities that are violent, not oppose them.
It's not an immediate threat, nation-wide, might happen to some degree locally, but, yeah, could happen if we let the Muslim fraction of the population keep increasing.
Because Muslims punch way above their weight class when it comes to political violence, and multiple countries have demonstrated that sort of political violence works.
What concessions have been gained by Muslim political violence?
Seen any cartoon images of Mohammed lately?
I also don't hear the N word much.
I don't see that as moving the needle towards sharia law.
"I also don't hear the N word much."
But you do see depictions of black people?
You don't seem to get the difference between an image depicting someone and a slur.
And, you see, that's how it works. Piss Christ is just "edgy", because Christians won't respond to it by murdering you. Piss Mohamad is off the table hate speech, because Muslims will. No other reason.
Terrorism actually works, and Muslims are very good at it.
Piss Christ was 40 years ago, Brett. It's really sad how you have to save up grievances for that long.
I'm not allowed to give famous examples?
Cartoons make Muslims emotional.
Presumably, the same reason why people object to any vaguely Christian laws or symbols... separation of church and state.
Why don't we ask the 10's of thousands of victims of UK Muslim grooming gangs why this might be necessary or perhaps the pre civil right act blacks of the US South. Yes, US law will be supplanted locally when some ethnic/religious group outside US norms holds sway implicitly if not explicitly. This isn't a problem when it's Orthodox Jews or the Amish but it is a concern when a not insignificant portion of that culture believes in no shit by any means necessary acquisition of power or at least compliance and sees everything first tribally then religiously and way last, secularly.
10's of thousands of victims? You threw in an extra factor of 10 there, I think.
It sucks. It was over a decade ago. It was not religion that was driving it.
Your whole 'Islam is full of steely eyed fanatics' thing is like 20 year old bigotry, so I guess it makes sense.
"It was over a decade ago."
I think you misspelled "It has been over the course of decades." Are you under the impression it ended?
You one of those who subscribes to the critical mass of Muslims theory, wherein they plot to see, normal till they reach like 10% and then begin to bring more in and agitate in a long game to bring in Sharia?
That seems like it would ring your conspiracy bell.
You're one of those who want to turn a blind eye to what's actually happening in countries that make the mistake of admitting too many Muslims.
A blind eye by most every leftist!
The definition of "coexist" for Islam is submit. Sarcastro and his fellow leftists fail to see the obvious.
Somin says that 59% of USA Moslems are foreign-born, and that the vast majority are not trying to kill or subjugate us. That's right, they do not have the political power yet. Their belief system is to wait until they do. In the mean time, they bait us into importing millions more Moslems. Why? Can someone please explain to me why we are importing millions of Moslems?
Somin says that tariffs cause recession, unemployment, and rampant inflation. Somin also says there is no difference between legal and illegal immigrants. You know Ilya Somin is lying because his lips are moving.
I'm confident the post on the 5th Circuit habeas cases will be out any day now.
>manifestly unconstitutional
How do you distinguish 8 CFR 316.11 (restrictions on Communists)?
OK, one is correlated with a religion, but the other impacts core political speech/beliefs, so tie??
The difference is that 8 CFR 316.11 is only about naturalization, and there is no right to be naturalized. Congress is given plenary power to make any rules it likes about naturalization, so it can say communists are not to be granted this privilege. Presumably it could also exclude Jews or Moslems from naturalization, if it wanted to.
It also has plenary power over immigration, so it can ban the immigration of communists, Jews, or Moslems. But it can't penalize those who are already here for their advocacy of communism, Judaism, or Islam. It doesn't have to let them be naturalized, but it can't cancel their visas and deport them.
If they cannot be naturalized, then eventually their visas will expire, and they will have to go.
No, permanent residence status never expires. https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-we-grant-your-green-card/maintaining-permanent-residence
That page lists several criteria for terminating green cards. More could be added.
What does "an adherent of Sharia law" mean?
Does it mean someone who wants to institute Sharia law by force? By an amendment to the U. S. Constitution?
Does it mean someone who wants to set up Sharia law, but only *after* most Americans have voluntarily converted to Islam?
Does it mean someone who signs arbitration agreements providing that the arbitrator will use Sharia law to guide his decision?
Farily vague terminology.
There are several possibilities, and they are all bad. There are about 50 Moslem countries, and we do not want any of their legal systems.
You are engaging in subterfuge. Since you have so much trouble with definitions: Deception used to achieve an end.
Under Sharia Law men can unilaterally divorce their wives through talaq (including triple talaq, which dissolves marriage instantly). So you support wife abandonment.
Under Sharia Law a woman’s testimony is traditionally worth half that of a man’s in financial and legal matters. This fits your misogynistic world view perfectly.
Men typically inherit double the share of women under classical Sharia. More support for your misogyny.
Sharia permits polygamy (up to four wives) which is often practiced in ways that disadvantage women—such as in cases where a husband marries multiple women without the first wife’s consent or without equitable treatment.
The Mormons found out how America responds to polygamy.
Sharia allows for husbandly "chastisement" (Quran 4:34), which justifies domestic violence. Sharia councils pressure abused women to reconcile with violent spouses, citing religious duty.
You just love that.
Yes, you got me - I'm pro-wifebeating, even though on the surface it looks like I'm only worried about the scope of a deportation law. /sarc
Question.
In 1764, in response to a massacre of captured Indian prisoners by a group of settlers, Benjamin quoted an admonition by the Prophet Mohammed against killing captives. He later said “If the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.”
Does this make Benjamin Franklin a follower of Sharia?
No, American law also opposes killing captives.
Even if this bill wasn't an excuse to discriminate against Muslims (which I think it probably is), banning Sharia law doesn't make much sense to me. As others have pointed out, it is a very wide tradition, with stuff that relates to property inheritance, dispute resolution, diet, etc etc. There are people who are strict about its interpretation, and people who aren't.
And as far as some of the more heinous things about Sharia go, there's nothing this bill achieves that is new. Presumably, it's already illegal in America to chop someone's hand off, for any reason! You don't get a free pass because you're an extremist Muslim and you thought that was a just punishment for someone badmouthing the prophet Mohammed.
Personally, I am not comfortable with people who believe that blasphemy is a punishable crime. But... people are allowed to think and believe things in your country. You don't punish thoughtcrime!
So yeah, I don't really see the sense in this. It feels like meaningless signalling to me, albeit signalling that could have serious consequences for thousands of people who have done nothing wrong.
It's not banning Sharia law, it's banning admission and residence by aliens who advocate Sharia law. It's very similar to current law regarding communism, actually.
§1424. Prohibition upon the naturalization of persons opposed to government or law, or who favor totalitarian forms of government
Similar restrictions apply to just getting a visa to visit the US.
It's an interesting question: If you take a political ideology which, by itself, could constitutionally be grounds for expulsion or rejection for admission, and call it a religious doctrine, is it now home free?
“ banning Sharia law doesn't make much sense to me. As others have pointed out, it is a very wide tradition, with stuff that relates to property inheritance, dispute resolution, diet, etc etc. There are people who are strict about its interpretation, and people who aren't.”
Did you read that part?
Thought crime support for the very worst libertarian.
Sure, there are bits and pieces of Sharia law that are inoffensive. There are bits and pieces of it that are wildly offensive. Do the former mean we must ignore the latter?
Ilya, you are sitting looser and looser to whether hating America matters.
You say 3 things I cannot take at all seriously
1) 1in 3 Americans can pass a citizenship. How much worse if those 2 are Muslims
2) Why do you say if it becomes a choice between America and say Islam you support Islam !!!
3) Isn't it sily to think none of the Muslims shold be deported ??? I can find you Muslims who think so
Everybody has off days (so said research of Dr. Deming)but yours are beginning to congeal
Immigrants have constitutional rights on a sliding scale, ascending with their connection to and identity with our society. Groups of immigrants who snuck in recently and reject our society have less protections than those who have been here for years and have made efforts to assimilate.
Shaughnessy v. United States ex rel. Mezei (1953): Confirmed that an alien on the threshold of initial entry has no constitutional procedural due process rights regarding admission, allowing the government to exclude or detain them.
Landon v. Plasencia (1982): Found that an alien already admitted to the U.S. who leaves and returns develops ties that entitle them to greater due process rights than a first-time applicant.
United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez (1990): Stated that aliens receive constitutional protections only when they have entered U.S. territory and developed substantial connections.
Johnson v. Eisentrager (1950): Established the principle that an alien is accorded a "generous and ascending scale of rights as he increases his identity with our society".
That's the sort of thing you get when the judiciary grounds the law in their own moral intuitions rather than the text of the Constitution.
Which actually puts the dividing line at "citizenship" not vague connections.
The Constitution doesn’t do that. Congress shall make no law doesn’t distinguish.
The P&I clause very clearly reserves most rights for citizens.