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Eleventh Circuit Rejects Trump's Defamation Lawsuit Over CNN 2022 "Big Lie" Statement
President Trump "complained that, by using the phrase 'Big Lie' to describe his claims about the 2020 presidential election, CNN defamed him."
From Trump v. CNN, Inc., decided today (correctly, I think) by Judges Adalberto Jordan, Kevin Newsom, and Elizabeth Branch:
In 2022, Plaintiff-Appellant Donald J. Trump filed a defamation suit against Cable News Network, Inc. (CNN). He complained that, by using the phrase "Big Lie" to describe his claims about the 2020 presidential election, CNN defamed him….
To be clear, CNN has never explicitly claimed that Trump's "actions and statements were designed to be, and actually were, variations of those [that] Hitler used to suppress and destroy populations." But, according to Trump, this assertion is implied in CNN's use of the phrase "Big Lie." Further, he argues, the phrase "could reasonably be interpreted … by facets of the CNN audience as accusations that [Trump] is doing exactly what the historical record shows [that] Hitler did in his monstrous, genocidal crimes against humanity." And, the argument goes, these accusations are false statements of fact because Trump did not do exactly what Hitler did. Hitler engaged in a monstrous genocide; Trump "exercis[ed] a constitutional right to point out concerns with the integrity of elections."
Trump's argument is unpersuasive. First, although he concedes that CNN's use of the term "Big Lie" is, to some extent, ambiguous, he assumes that it is unambiguous enough to constitute a statement of fact. This assumption is untenable. Although we haven't squarely addressed the point, case law from other circuits is persuasive. In Buckley v. Littell (2d Cir. 1976), the Second Circuit held that, by using the terms "fascist," "fellow traveler," and "radical right" to describe William F. Buckley, Jr., the defendant was not publishing "statements of fact." Buckley, 539 F.2d at 893. Rather, the court ruled, the terms were "so debatable, loose and varying[ ] that they [we]re insusceptible to proof of truth or falsity." Similarly, in Ollman v. Evans (D.C. Cir. 1984), the D.C. Circuit held that when the defendant called the plaintiff "an outspoken proponent of political Marxism," his statement was "obviously unverifiable."
Trump argues that the term "Big Lie" is less ambiguous than the terms "fascist," "fellow traveler," "radical right," and "outspoken proponent of political Marxism." But he does not explain this assertion. If "fascist"—a term that is, by definition, political—is ambiguous, then it follows that "Big Lie"—a term that is facially apolitical—is at least as ambiguous.
Second, Trump's argument hinges on the fact that his own interpretation of his conduct—i.e., that he was exercising a constitutional right to identify his concerns with the integrity of elections—is true and that CNN's interpretation—i.e., that Trump was peddling his "Big Lie"—is false. However, his conduct is susceptible to multiple subjective interpretations, including CNN's. As we held in Turner, one person's "subjective assessment" is not rendered false by another person's "different conclusion." In Turner, the defendants stated that, on at least one occasion, the plaintiff, James Turner, offensive line coach of the Miami Dolphins, participated in the "homophobic taunting" of one of his players. Turner argued that this statement was false because his conduct was a "harmless 'joke,' as opposed to homophobic taunting." We rejected his argument, concluding that the statement "[wa]s the [d]efendants' subjective assessment of Turner's conduct and [wa]s not readily capable of being proven true or false."
Just as the Turner defendants described Turner's conduct as "homophobic taunting," CNN described Trump's conduct as his "Big Lie." Just as Turner viewed his own conduct as a "harmless 'joke,'" Trump viewed his own conduct as the exercise of a constitutional right. As in Turner, so too here. CNN's subjective assessment of Trump's conduct is not readily capable of being proven true or false.
Trump has not adequately alleged the falsity of CNN's statements. Therefore, he has failed to state a defamation claim….
Eric P. Schroeder and Brian M. Underwood, Jr. (Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner LLP) and George S. LeMieux and Eric C. Edison (Gunster, Yoakley & Stewart, P.A.) represent CNN.
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Leftist judges…
Two Trump appointees and an Obama appointee. The decision was barely 8 pages...
Alabama, Georgia, and Florida are well known antifa hotbeds. Worse than California, really. Probably impossible to find a conservative judge in the 11th Circuit.
Maybe Josh Blackman will weigh in to denounce these traducers of our leader.
What do I know? Maybe the Supreme Court will weigh in to protect the integrity of our public discourse by prohibiting these kinds of overwrought criticisms of our elected president.
I think the court got it right. "Big Lie" does sort of lean into it a little bit but on the whole it is subjective enough to be an opinion. I don't think the average person knows enough history to equate that with Hitler, even though I'm sure that was CNN's intent.
CNN were the ones selling the Big Lie and their viewership is showing it.
Got 'em.
More vibes..
Where?
MAGA's "IKYABWAI?" motto strikes again.
I beg to differ :
Trump's argument is unpersuasive. First, although he concedes that CNN's use of the term "Big Lie" is, to some extent, ambiguous, he assumes that it is unambiguous enough to constitute a statement of fact.
Leaving aside the Nazi stuff, which may be where the big bucks are hoped to be found, if you accuse someone of a "Big Lie" you are necessarily accusing them of .... a "lie".... and so necessarily of deliberately saying something that they believe to be untrue. That accusation - that they are serving up a deliberate falsehood - concerns a matter of fact, not opinion. It is a factual claim about their state of mind.
It does not, strictly, matter whether the thing lied about is true or not, so there is no work to be done to prove it. I could lie that I am the son of Greta Garbo, and if - to my surprise - it was lated proved that I was indeed the son of Greta Garbo, it would still have been a lie.
All that matters is whether the alleged liar believes it to be untrue. And that is precisely the thing that courts are required to find - as fact - in say a perjury trial.
Certainly, it may be difficult to prove one way or the other, since it can only be proved by inference, but the nature of the animal is definitely that of "fact"
It follows that the core of the court's reasoning is misguided :
"....the Second Circuit held that, by using the terms "fascist," "fellow traveler," and "radical right" to describe William F. Buckley, Jr., the defendant was not publishing "statements of fact." Buckley, 539 F.2d at 893. Rather, the court ruled, the terms were "so debatable, loose and varying[ ] that they [we]re insusceptible to proof of truth or falsity." Similarly, in Ollman v. Evans (D.C. Cir. 1984), the D.C. Circuit held that when the defendant called the plaintiff "an outspoken proponent of political Marxism," his statement was "obviously unverifiable."
True, but "lie" is not like "fascist" etc, it is not a term that is debatable, loose and varying. The term itself is quite clear, even if proving a lie is difficult.
Trump argues that the term "Big Lie" is less ambiguous than the terms "fascist," "fellow traveler," "radical right," and "outspoken proponent of political Marxism." But he does not explain this assertion. If "fascist"—a term that is, by definition, political—is ambiguous, then it follows that "Big Lie"—a term that is facially apolitical—is at least as ambiguous.
No it doesn't. Or rather the bigness of a lie may be a matter of opinion. But the "lie-ness" of a lie is a matter of fact.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/16/rudy-giuliani-georgia-defamation-settlement-00198755
Here's the double standard.
That was an accusation specific people were fraudulent election ballot workers.
Ironically, part of the Big Lie.
What you are saying is correct as a matter of strict dictionary definition, but when commenting on a public figure you have to use a little bit of context. If you do that you see that what CNN is saying is that "In our opinion, based on what we have reviewed, we believe that Trump is lying."
It would be like me saying that "OJ is a murderer." Now I wasn't there so I can't say that with any personal knowledge, but most people would interpret my statement as "Based upon the review I have taken of the evidence, it is my opinion that OJ is guilty of murder."
And it would not be a very free country if I couldn't say that (or had to carefully lawyer ball it) on a matter of public debate.
You seem to be arguing that libel is legally impossible.
(a) "wvattorney13 kidnapped and murdered his neighbor's daughter and then had sex with her dog"
becomes "in context"
(b) "in my opinion, based on what I have observed, I believe that wvattorney13 kidnapped and murdered his neighbor's daughter and then had sex with her dog"
It would hardly be a free country if I could not express my opinion (b) using the words of (a) - really ?
If anything I would argue it the other way round. If I, as a mere citizen, with an audience of no more than a dozen, make a reckless statement using the form of a statement of fact, maybe it's reasonable to conclude "he's just sounding off, he knows nothing."
But if it's a national TV channel holding itself out as a source of "news" and it chooses to use the form of fact rather than of opinion, why should it get the benefit of an automatic assumption that we are not to take it at its word ?
I mean if it begins all its programs with a statement "Listen up folks, we're just spreading mud to amuse our audience, you don't need to take a word we say seriously" then fine. But that's not what they tend to do is it ?
Each case turns on its own facts. You illustrated why that is so. You just posted, on a public message board visible to the whole world that "wvattorney13 kidnapped and murdered his neighbor's daughter and then had sex with her dog" yet you are clearly not guilty of libeling me.
Why? Because no reasonable person would believe that is an assertion of fact about me. That's the only test.
If you said it in the manner in your hypothetical the follow up questions would be around what particular evidence you have reviewed to lead you to that "opinion." If it turns out that the answer is "none" and you made that statement to harm me, then that could be the subject of libel. The labeling of that as "opinion" would fall apart under scrutiny.
Under your view, any accusation of lying would always be actionable.
Wait. What?
That's not how this is supposed to work. CNN's parent company is supposed to give Trump $25M or thereabouts and in exchange Trump will bless some financial transaction that will return many more dollars. Haven't they learned anything from CBS or ABC? The fact that the suit is legally meritless is beside the point.
Shareholders must be pissed about the inability of the CNN leadership to bri^H^H^H make sound financial decisions.
It's a pretty simple, pretty solid opinion. 11th Cir is applying an abuse of discretion standard. Easy for lay readers to understand what's going. Worth the [quick] read.
Nope. The decision clearly states that they applied de novo review. Which is the standard on a motion to dismiss.
Rather, it agreed with the district court that the phrase Big Lie is ambiguous, and hence opinion.
FWIW, I think Trump is partially right, but should still have lost. Big Lie was a technique of the Nazis. The "Big Lie" is a propaganda technique suggesting a blatant falsehood, if repeated frequently enough, will be accepted as truth because its sheer size makes people unable to fathom its untruth. So the phrase does evoke the Nazis.
But just because someone uses on Nazi technique does not mean one is engaged in all evil the Nazis did. Trump can fairly be accused of engaging in Big Lie tactics when he claims the 2020 election was stolen from him. That part, IMO, is pretty accurate. But that does not mean he is doing other Nazi things.
Ope, you’re more right than me. De novo on 12(b)(6), AoD on motion for reconsideration.
Thank you for that simple and clear explanation, BL.
It is massive idiotic hubris to sue a network for calling your actual Big Lie a Big Lie. Trump had zero chance at winning, and the suit was so stupid that CNN could not plausibly settle (bribe).
Was it any stupider than the suits against ABC and CBS that were "settled"?
Not that I can see.
At least he got CNN to admit that "big lie" was just a meaningless epithet.
That is not what CNN said. They said that it did not have the Nazi naming Trump said it did.
Did CNN even say that? I haven't seen their brief, but the closest thing to an actual quote from CNN to be found in the court's opinion is:
where the part in quotes is presumably lifted from Trump's attorneys' brief. i.e. the court is merely recognizing that CNN did not say what Trump's attorneys alleged them to have said.
Just like CNN did not say anything remotely like what Roger S alleges. But since we live in a post-fact world I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by either false allegation.
Speaking of defamation lawsuits, Hunter Biden had sued erstwhile Overstock.com/current MAGA nutjob Patrick Byrne for defamation a couple of years ago.
On the day of the trial, Byrne fired all his lawyers, sent a brand new set of lawyers who weren't admitted to practice in the district and one was an accused felon out on bail. Byrne himself didn't show up, and then skipped a bunch more court appearances. Now he's in default on a multimillion dollar defamation lawsuit.
From what I know there has been no award of damages (in large part because Byrne has not provided details on how much money he has). Until the court knows his financial status it will not award multimillion dollars in damages. In any case Byrne lost a defamation case in Canada and was awarded a little over a million dollars including 250,000 punitive damages. Hunter's suit aske for one dollar actual damages and punitive damages as well. Not sure where you get multimillion from.
Whether something is a lie or not is susceptible to falsification. But once Trump conceded it was a lie, his lawyers should have known he had a loser of a case. Size and importance are matters of opinion.
"If 'fascist'—a term that is, by definition, political—is ambiguous, then it follows that 'Big Lie'—a term that is facially apolitical—is at least as ambiguous."
Can someone explain this?
I don't get it.
Yes, I can explain. It is the judges, not you, who are confused.
As ReaderY explains succinctly in the comment immediately above yours, and as I explain at much more tedious length further up, whether something is a lie is a matter of fact - ie a fact about the speaker's state of mind, whereas whether someone is a fascist, or a communist, a nutjob, or even - these days - a pedophile or a woman - is a matter of opinion, since those terms are all impossibly vague and possessed of elastic meanings.
Whereas a "lie" is a semantically straightforward animal.
The statement that something is a lie is not a fact about the speaker's state of mind. We know that, because I can proclaim, "The claim that Donald Trump won the 2020 election is a lie." Whose state of mind am I making an assertion about?
Your attempt to import the Costanza argument — "Jerry, just remember: it's not a lie… if you believe it." — into libel law falls flat.
Presumably you could be alleging that anyone in the world who claims that Trump won the 2020 election is lying instead of, say, just drinking the kool aid and truly believing it himself.
But as I say, it is squishy. In addition, as Trump is a public figure, even if we go down this road that the accusation of a "lie" is actionable, he would have to show that CNN engaged in actual malice, that it alleged he lied knowing that Trump really did not lie, or that they said so recklessly.
Believing that Trump is a person of low character who would lie is (an opinion, but also) not recklessness.
"The claim that Donald Trump won the 2020 election is a lie." Whose state of mind am I making an assertion about?
The claimant's. Is this hard ?
Your attempt to import the Costanza argument — "Jerry, just remember: it's not a lie… if you believe it." — into libel law falls flat.
You have it backwards, unsurprisingly. If you don't believe it, and you assert it all the same, then it's a lie. It's inherent in the concept of a lie that the speaker believes what he's claiming to be true, is in fact false.
What claimant? I just made a statement: "The claim that Donald Trump won the 2020 election is a lie." I didn't identify any claimant at all. I'm saying — in accordance with common English usage — that the claim itself is inherently a lie.
It is not at all inherent in the concept. Although sometimes people talk that way, people frequently use the word to mean a falsehood. (That's why people will sometimes describe something as "a knowing lie.")
Your Greta Garbo hypo was even more bizarre; you're claiming that a true statement could be "a lie." That's just not how anyone uses the English language.
In my view, a "lie" can be just as squishy as those other terms. There are lies of omission, lying to yourself, stealing is the same as lying, etc.
Something could be a lie in the colloquial sense but not in the literal dictionary definition sense. Much like communist or even "nutjob."
The REAL "Big Lie," was that perpetuated by Obama, Clinton, Comey, Brennan, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, PBS, NBC, NPR, CBS, the New York Times, and the Washington Post, the COLLUSION DELUSION.
The courts are dealing with that BIG LIE now.
I'd say that thesafesurfer is a day late and a dollar short, but it's more like 8 years late and $500 million short.