The Volokh Conspiracy
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The FCC Chair's Unprecedented, and Constitutionally Problematic, Response to Jimmy Kimmel
And Trump's much more extreme one. [EV writes: I bumped this post from yesterday, because it struck me as especially timely and substantively valuable.]
On Monday Jimmy Kimmel said:
We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger-pointing, there was, uh, grieving on Friday − the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism, but on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this. Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief: construction. Demolition, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend; this is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish, OK? And it didn't just happen once. And then we installed the most beautiful chandelier. Responses you wouldn't believe. Who thinks like that, and why are we building a $200 million chandelier in the White House? Is it possible that he's doing it intentionally so he can be bad about that instead of the Jeffrey Epstein list?
Yesterday, FCC Chair Brendan Carr said:
Public interest means you can't be running a narrow partisan circus and still meeting your public interest obligations. That means you can't be engaging in a pattern of news distortion.
It appears to be some of the sickest conduct possible. In some quarters, there's a very concerted effort to try to lie to the American people about the nature of one of the most significant, newsworthy, public interest acts that we've seen in a long time.
Frankly, when you see stuff like this — I mean, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the F.C.C. ahead.
A few hours after Carr's remarks, ABC indefinitely suspended Kimmel's show.
And this evening, Donald Trump said of broadcasters:
They give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away.
What Is the FCC's Statutory Authority?
47 U.S.C. 301 grants the FCC control over the radio spectrum and directs the FCC to grant licenses to use specified frequencies for a specified number of years. So wireless broadband providers, satellite television providers, local broadcast stations, etc. must obtain FCC licenses. Licenses are generally very valuable (broadband auctions for initial licenses have yielded more than $200 billion to the Treasury), and a licensee really wants to be able to renew its license and to sell it to someone else who will then be able to renew it (otherwise, the buyer would not pay very much). This creates two principal levers the FCC uses to control licensees.
First, under 47 U.S.C. 310 the FCC must approve any proposed transfer of a license as long as it finds that "the public interest, convenience, and necessity will be served thereby." This was the source of the FCC's leverage with respect to the CBS/Skydance transaction: CBS wanted to transfer the licenses for the local TV stations it owned, and the FCC had to approve. As readers know, the FCC did approve that transfer after (in the words of the FCC press release) Skydance committed not to have any DEI policies, to "ensur[e] that the new company's array of news and entertainment programming will embody a diversity of viewpoints across the political and ideological spectrum," and to invest new capital. And of course the FCC approved the transfer shortly after Stephen Colbert's show was cancelled – at a minimum creating an appearance problem (or an opportunity, for those who want future transferees to fear the FCC).
The second key source of authority is 47 U.S.C. 309, which specifies that the FCC can similarly deny renewal of a license if the FCC does not find that the licensee "has served the public interest, convenience, and necessity."
Is This Consistent with the First Amendment?
At this point a key question may occur to you: how can it be consistent with the First Amendment for any FCC renewal or transfer decisions to turn in any way on the content, much less the viewpoint, of a licensee's speech? Content-based regulation of cable television providers (whose systems often require rights-of-way from a government) or websites that transmit content via wireless frequencies would be subject to strict scrutiny, which is nearly always fatal, and viewpoint-based regulation is always invalidated. Indeed, even without the use of any rights-of-way or frequencies (which the Court never mentioned in its cable and internet cases), the Court would apply strict scrutiny. (And by the way, the Court has invalidated the regulation of knowingly false speech -- indeed, particularly offensive false speech, in the form of lying about receiving military medals.)
So how can the FCC look at content under sections 309 and 310?
The answer in the case law has been that in FCC v. Pacifica Foundation the Supreme Court held that broadcasting is subject to less rigorous First Amendment scrutiny primarily because it is uniquely pervasive, and secondarily because it is uniquely accessible to children. And in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, the Court allowed mandates that broadcasters host speech the government deemed valuable, based largely on spectrum scarcity. (Red Lion does not suggest that scarcity justifies restricting harmful speech, but rather justifies requiring broadcasters to air valuable speech.)
Denying a renewal or transfer based on viewpoint goes beyond Pacifica and Red Lion, and there is a reasonable argument that neither decision extends that far. Even if they did, it would not follow that the Supreme Court would permit such actions.
Pacifica and Red Lion have been subject to persuasive criticism for years. As to Pacifica, broadcasting is just another medium of communication. The government powerfully argued in cases involving cable television, the internet, and telephones, (all of which Congress chose to regulate) that those other media are just as pervasive, and just as available to children, as broadcasting, and in each case the Supreme Court rejected the government's argument and invalidated the regulation under strict scrutiny, making it harder and harder to defend Pacifica.
Regarding Red Lion, to quote from my Internet & Telecommunications Regulation casebook, "almost all resources —e.g., wires, labor, steel, land, and investment capital —are scarce in that (a) if given away at no charge people would request more of them than is available and (b) if we could create more of them, that additional increment could also be put to productive use." Indeed, in some respects radio frequencies are less scarce than land: the range of usable frequencies has increased more than 10-fold in the last 50 years – as if we had discovered 10 new usable Earths. And the Court declined the opportunity to apply Red Lion in later cases like Miami Herald v. Tornillo (newspapers) and Moody v. NetChoice (social media), making it harder and harder to defend Red Lion.
As Justice Thomas noted in FCC v. Fox,
Red Lion and Pacifica were unconvincing when they were issued, and the passage of time has only increased doubt regarding their continued validity. The text of the First Amendment makes no distinctions among print, broadcast, and cable media, but we have done so in these cases.[Internal quotation marks omitted.]
FCC commissioners and staff are aware of the First Amendment problems with content-based FCC decisionmaking, and the broader governance concerns raised when government wields so much power. Indeed, the FCC repealed the Fairness Doctrine (whose legal hook was the threat of non-renewal) and later (after much prodding from the D.C. Circuit) the Personal Attack and Political Editorial rules (which were similarly predicated on the threat of non-renewal) on First Amendment grounds. And see the final block quote below. Many people (myself included) expect that if the Supreme Court squarely confronted Pacifica and/or Red Lion, it would overrule them.
But the costs for a licensee to challenge a non-renewal or transfer denial are very high. The Court has made it clear that only it can overrule its cases, so a licensee would face months if not years of delay on a transfer (often fatal to transfer deals) or on a renewal, with no guarantee of success. The obvious incentive is for the private party to do what the government wants. That is why Trump had leverage over ABC, leading it to settle a very weak lawsuit. That's how things work in lots of countries we don't want to emulate.
Would This Be an Ordinary Application of FCC Standards?
First things first: Trump said the quiet part out loud tonight – he thinks that broadcasters have been too critical of him and thus maybe their licenses should be taken away. That has never happened, and here's hoping it never will.
Now to Carr's stated focus – news distortion. First, it has been applied only to news shows (which of course Kimmel's show is not). Second, the FCC has created guardrails around it that seem to exclude Kimmel's monologue. As the FCC stated in rejecting a news distortion complaint against a Fox television station in 2007:
In evaluating whether an allegation of news distortion impacts the licensee's ability to serve the public interest, the Commission analyzes both the "substantiality" and "materiality" of the allegation. An allegation is "material" only if the licensee itself is said to have participated in, directed, or at least acquiesced in a pattern of news distortion. An allegation of news distortion is "substantial" if it meets two conditions: it is deliberately intended to slant or mislead; and it involves a significant event and not merely a minor or incidental aspect of the news report. It is sufficient for a petitioner to raise a "substantial and material question of fact" as to intent, and the Commission cannot require a petitioner to demonstrate "intent." However, the Commission determines in the first instance whether the evidence submitted raises a substantial question of fact.
Section 326 of the Act prohibits the Commission from censoring radio communications, and the First Amendment to the Constitution strictly limits the Commission's authority to interfere with the programming decisions of licensees. In light of these limitations, and because journalistic or editorial discretion in the presentation of news and public information is the core concept of the First Amendment's Free Press guarantee, "the Commission's policy makes its investigation of an allegation of news distortion 'extremely limited in scope.'" In showing an intent to distort, "[i]t is not enough to dispute the accuracy of a news report…or to question the legitimate editorial decisions of the broadcaster." Allegations of deliberate distortion must be supported by extrinsic evidence "such as written or oral instructions from station management, outtakes, or evidence of bribery." With respect to a report's accuracy in particular, the Commission has stated that it possesses "neither the expertise nor the desire to look over the shoulder of broadcast journalists and inquire why a particular piece of information was reported or not reported." To do otherwise "would involve the Commission deeply and improperly in the journalistic functions of broadcasters."
In the Matter of TVT License, Inc., 22 F.C.C. Rcd. 13591, 13592 (2007).
Third, the FCC has found distortion in only eight cases since 1969, and just once since 1982. Fourth, in none of those cases did the FCC revoke the license based on the distortion. A representative example involved a "letter of admonishment" that had no impact on the licensee (and proved to have no impact on its future renewals) despite the FCC
finding "repeated instances of deceptive programming broadcast by the station" in five different news programs over a two-year period. Deceptions included staff members concocting letters and phone calls that were presented on the air as having been issued from viewers, supposedly spontaneous questions by members of studio audiences which were prepared by staff members and fictitious interviews with various people misidentified as members of the public.
The only finding of news distortion since 1982 was a similar letter of admonishment in 1993 for NBC
staging a segment of a "Dateline NBC" report on unsafe gas tanks in General Motors trucks. The report showed video of what it called an "unscientific" test crash in which a GM truck exploded into flames after being hit from the side. GM's investigation found that NBC producers had rigged the test by attaching incendiary devices to the truck's gas tank.
The most recent attempts at news distortions were A) a claim, piggybacking on the state court determination in Dominion Voting System's suit against Fox News, that a Fox television station disseminated false statements about Dominion, and B) claims that CBS distorted the news by airing different footage of Kamala Harris's response to the same question on 60 Minutes and Face the Nation. The FCC rejected all these challenges shortly before Trump took office without holding any hearings, as it should have. It began all the orders by stating:
The freedom of speech and the press is enshrined in the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and is necessary to promote the vigorous dialogue necessary in a representative democracy. When the government — including Congress, the Courts, and the Executive Branch (and States and local government) — seeks to curtail the freedom of expression on ""matters of valid public interest," doing so implicates the very heart of speech that the First Amendment is meant to protect. Accordingly, for nearly a century since the Commission's inception in 1934, the Communications Act has expressly prohibited the Commission from engaging in the "power of censorship," or issuing regulations or conditions that "interfere with the right of free speech." It has instead plainly recognized that "[b]roadcasters—not the FCC or any other government agency—are responsible for selecting the material they air" and that "our role in overseeing program content is very limited." Moreover, "the Commission does not—and cannot and will not—act as a self-appointed, free-roving arbiter of truth in journalism."
In the Matter of Preserving the First Amendment, Application of Fox Television Stations, LLC for Renewal of License of WTXF-TV, Philadelphia, Pa (Jan. 16, 2025).
(By the way, that last quotation was from a 2020 order rejecting a challenge to the airing of allegedly false statements about Covid-19 by President Trump and others.)
The only remotely analogous FCC action was Carr's decision, upon becoming chair, to reopen the challenges to CBS's handling of Kamala Harris's answers (but not to Fox's statements about Dominion). But it would take chutzpah for Carr to claim that his Kimmel comments are not unprecedented simply because he did something roughly analogous nine months ago.
The bottom line: treating Kimmel's statement as news distortion would be unprecedented. Indeed, that understates the point. The idea that his statement resembles anything the FCC has punished as news distortion is somewhere between strained and frivolous.
[Edit to make explicit that the first two limits on news distortion knock out application to Kimmel's monologue.]
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You want to see something weird? Watch Kimmel's brutal takedown of Trump that's alluded to in the OP here, where Trump is asked about his reaction to Kirk's death, and Trump pivots to the White House construction. It's the weirdest fucking thing I've seen, and Kimmel's observations are both hysterically funny and totally on-point. It's like Trump couldn't even pretend to care for 60 seconds to give a shit about Kirk when giving a live off-the-cuff response to a reporter's question. Instead, after about 10 seconds of a rehearsed response; Trump started talking about what was really important...the crap he is building at the White House.
Trump doesn't really give a shit about Kirk, other than milking the poor guy's death for the maximum political advantage. But he wants to punish anyone and everyone who doesn't mourn publicly. Although Trump doesn't have an authentic bone in his body; he wants everyone else held to some impossible standard.
I'm genuinely gratified to see some genuine conservatives from my Republican party start to revolt at this (hopefully not too little and too late). The woke cancel culture on the right here has been particularly ugly. And, from people who politically matter--like people running the FCC--utterly despicable.
It's like Trump couldn't even pretend to care for 60 seconds to give a shit about Kirk
Like, when on 9/11, as a consequence of the towers falling, he claimed to now own the tallest building in south Manhattan.
He's a narcissistic prick. A real piece of shit.
Kimmel is not authentic or funny. Kimmel was the one trying to milk Kirk's death to score political political points.
"Trump doesn't really give a shit about Kirk, other than milking the poor guy's death "
I think that you are wrong about that. He needed Kirk to get the House in next year's election, and he knows that.
But sure, Trump is an asshole and the ballroom is all about him.
When my late husband died, I talked a lot about trivialities at first, because my grief was too raw to articulate. I got flak for it, but it's a real experience, and the flak came solely from those who had not suffered such a loss.
1. Sorry for your loss, of course.
2. My guess is that, since you are an actual human being with actual human emotions and responses; probably all your friends who observed you would have told you that you seemed "off" in some way(s). You had a flat affect. You weren't responding normally. Etc.
3. Different people respond differently to trauma and to sadness and to loss. Of course they do. But I seriously invite you to watch the video of Trump responding to this question. It is fucking wild. My own opinion is that his response is how a sociopath would answer, but I admit that I'm projecting, based on the 10,000 examples of Trump being an awful sack of shit during the past 40 years he's been in the public spotlight. But, regardless of whether or not he is showing emotional or mental imbalance; I think that just about everyone who watches and listens to it agrees that it's just a weird response. It's the inability to display empathy for longer than the attention span of a goldfish that's most disturbing to me.
Donald Trump is the best President in my lifetime at expressing a certain range of emotions. Anger, rage, hatred, vindictiveness, revenge. When he speaks to these, his body and his tone of voice has an authenticity that speaks to his followers' inner cores, and touches even those who hate him politically. But Trump is utterly incompetent at expressing love, or regret, or empathy, or forgiveness, or a wide wide wide range of emotions. Sure, if someone else writes out a speech, he can read it, like someone--with a gun just off-camera--reading a hostage video. But those always come across as inauthentic at best, and laughably hypocritical at worst.
And I thought Trump's response was a classic example of this. Yeah, he gave a valiant effort at showing empathy. That lasted about 10 seconds. But then his brain shifted to what was really important: Donald Trump, and crap that Trump builds.
It's a cliche that one of the President's unofficial official duties is Mourner in Chief. At this; Trump may be the worst in history. Certainly, the worst in modern history. When I think of W. Bush in New York after 9/11, or Obama singing "Amazing Grace" after Charleston . . . I still get goosebumps at the power our presidents have to unify us after difficult times. Does anyone, ANYONE, think that Trump has that ability? (My totally unprovable fear is that, if--God forbid--there is another 9/11-type attack--Trump's first instinct will be to immediately blame Democrats for it, and to try and pit half the country against the other half.)
How about a more fundamental objection to the “news distortion“ argument: late night talk show programs are not news programs.
Right -- that was my point in listing that limit first. But I can make that explicit.
Number2, aren't they though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXNJ3V9lzg
We all get it, you're a leftist so any and all lies in service of the narrative and Leftist power are to be defended at all costs. Sorry Charlie but Kimmel was going out on pure failure of his own and I don't remember you catching the vapors over Elizabeth Warren's threats or Biden's outright censorship so excuse me if I discount everything you have to offer as pure partisanship.
We all get it, you’re incapable of independent thought and will regurgitate even the most absurd propaganda without question.
So you're just going to ignore Iger's problems with Kimmel for his tone and the affiliates pulling out and the annual losses to keep the shill. Got it, reality isn't a thing you concern yourself with.
Social, the issue is the violation of a crucial aspect of our Constitution by someone purporting to be a public servant who (in order to obtain his position and pay) expressly acknowledged that his first, foremost and constant duty was to "support and defend" our "Constitution" against "all enemies, foreign and domestic" and to "bear true faith and allegiance" to our Constitution. See 5 U.S.C. 3331. Carr not only failed to support and defend our Constitution, he attacked and undermined it. So did his (mob) boss.
The issue is Carr's and Trump's misconduct, i.e., their jawboning. See https://eternallyradicalidea.com/p/jimmy-kimmels-cancelation-is-an-outrage
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/what-jawboning-and-does-it-violate-first-amendment
Leftist power? You mean the broadcasters? You know there are lots of right-wing power too, like the fossil fuel industry for one.
The broadcasters e.g. Sinclair are right-wing anyway. They are exerting their "right-wing power" in this very situation.
Better start holding them accountable for the murders of the Minnesota legislator couple!
Claiming that broadcasters should lose their license if they air criticism of the president is the most un-American thing I have every heard from a US President.
That this remark is either being ignored or endorsed by the bulk of those on "the right" is case for real concern. Freedom of expression is not just for those expressions you agree with.
I'm surprised to hear that you say that the remarks have been either ignored or endorsed by the right. It has been my impression (albeit not based on any kind of systematic survey) that at least mainstream right-leaning blogs have been no less critical of them than left-leaning blogs. Most of the right-leaning blogs I have seen have been very critical (as they should be), although perhaps less inclined to throw words like "fascist" and "Nazi" around in the process. I have been very pleased to see that the right-leaning sources have opposed censorship of the left (in a way that has often been lacking when the shoe was on the other foot). I am also glad to see that so many on the left, who have been relatively quiet about censorship over the last decade, believe that even speech one disagrees with should be protected from censorship. I am not all that worried that Trump's (and Bondi's and Carr's) remarks portend a cutback on free speech, as I think that too many Trump supporters would go ballistic. I guess Trump is a uniter after all :).
If tone deafness were a blog post comment.
I hope you are right.
At least Ted Cruz gets it.
Looking at Real Clear Politics today seems to support my assessment that it is generally either being ignored or celebrated on "the right". Perhaps you have better examples?
Things might get broken. Things break, you know.
Perhaps you have better examples?
Apparently not.
At least you have the example of Obama and Biden as great unifiers.
Well, it wasn't a President, but there was a presidential candidate that wanted to amend the Constitution to prevent people from making movies criticizing her. Fortunately, she lost.
As I was pointing out above, ignoring or endorsing.
I suppose I should add, just engaging in whataboutism.
What's more fun here, that OneInch does the Whatabout or that in doing so he implicates Hillary (D) as a Presidential Candidate who wants censorship while eliding the GOP Presidential candidate who's NAME IS ON THE FREAKING LAW.
I do feel for OneInch and his ilk. Imagine getting up in the morning and feeling like you have to toady to a feckless idiot like Trump. It's a terrible gig, why do they do it, I don't know.
"while eliding the GOP Presidential candidate who's NAME IS ON THE FREAKING LAW."
What are you talking about? I don't support the law. All I'm saying is it could have been worse.
Don't you agree?
"I do feel for OneInch and his ilk. Imagine getting up in the morning and feeling like you have to toady to a feckless idiot like Trump. It's a terrible gig, why do they do it, I don't know."
Why? We do it to save people like you from getting up in the morning and realizing you helped elect a president that amended free speech out of the Constitution.
You're welcome!
Lol, to tar Hillary, as a terrible speech nominee, with the law without mentioning it's the MCAIN-Feingold law is pretty amazing mental gymnastics.
"We do it to save people like you from getting up in the morning and realizing you helped elect a president that amended free speech out of the Constitution."
“We’ll probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly.”
“It’s hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe we’ll go after ABC,” Trump said.
lol, to quote another one of your Dear Leaders, Heckuva Job, OneInch!
"Lol, to tar Hillary, as a terrible speech nominee, with the law without mentioning it's the MCAIN-Feingold law is pretty amazing mental gymnastics."
Lol. It's also the McCain-FEINGOLD law, so what?
SCOTUS said it was okay though, so sorry. We lost.
"almost all resources —e.g., wires, labor, steel, land, and investment capital —are scarce..."
Not to mention paper and ink.
While that's correct, the electromagnetic spectrum is different than those other examples in that there's no historical concept of private ownership of specific frequencies.
It's a shared resource that needs some form of regulation to prevent the chaos that would prevail if anyone was able to transmit on whatever frequency they wanted. Of course, that doesn't mean that the US government can engage in content-based censorship, as appears to be happening here.
All resources are shared, until the government gives people the exclusive right to use them.
Like you say, there's no more reason to allow the government to censor content broadcast on X frequency than to require people not to print bad thoughts on paper made from trees out of Y forest.
So the threat by the FCC head was wrong. Just say it.
Look, I know you think I'm some wild eyed Harris supporter, but as I've said before, I'm a registered Republican here in MD. The only campaigns I've donated money and time to is Hogan and Steele.
Trump's a lawless idiot. When he's an idiot, say it. Trump's a true coward and if his base calls him out he will change. I know you want to roast the transgenders and DEI so very badly, but you can get that without all the idiocy that comes with Trump. There's no need to prostrate yourself at his feet.
"So the threat by the FCC head was wrong. Just say it."
You figured that out all by yourself, Sherlock? Yes, the threat by the FCC was wrong.
Yes - the threat from the FCC was wrong
though the left is far more upset with the wrong actions of the FCC than the murder of Kirk
"A few hours after Carr's remarks, ABC indefinitely suspended Kimmel's show."
OR
A few hours after discussions where Kimmel refused executives urging him to issue an apology, and in the face of 15% or more of the affiliates refusing to carry Kimmel's show, combined with dismal ratings, ABC indefinitely suspended Kimmel's show.
Not so much "free speech" as purely commercial speech. Kimmel is/was an employee, and has bosses. Ignoring them is always a bad idea.
ABC/Disney paid big bucks to use "the public airwaves".
The pattern from the preceding Democrat FCC chairman? Patterns are clear: Coordinated advertiser boycotts. Public celebrations of people losing jobs and businesses. Two sets of rules — the Left can lie (Russia hoax, Covington kids smear, Jussie Smollett, etc.) and laugh about it, but the Right gets destroyed. Accountability only ever goes one way. The Left has spent the last decade perfecting cancel culture, destroying jobs, nuking shows, wiping platforms off the internet, and laughing while people’s lives were ruined. But sure… Jimmy Kimmel smugly lying about a political assassination? Totally fine.
Roseanne Barr – Fired by ABC/Disney and her hit show Roseanne canceled overnight in 2018 after one tweet. Hundreds of cast and crew lost their jobs.
Gina Carano – Fired from The Mandalorian in 2021 for social media posts that didn’t fit the Left’s politics. Dropped by her agency too.
Megyn Kelly – Fired by NBC in 2018, her morning show canceled after comments about Halloween costumes.
Dave Chappelle – Netflix employees staged a walkout and demanded his comedy special be pulled for “transphobia.” The Left tried hard to cancel him.
Joe Rogan – The Left pressured Spotify to drop him, running coordinated campaigns and advertiser boycotts over COVID discussions.
Tucker Carlson – Taken off Fox News in 2023. Liberal activists bragged about advertiser pressure campaigns that helped force him out, costing thousands of downstream jobs.
Parler – Apple, Google, and Amazon colluded in 2021 to wipe the entire platform off the internet. Tens of thousands of small creators and businesses lost income overnight.
J.K. Rowling – Blacklisted from events, attacked by activists, and pressured out of projects for speaking her mind.
Donald Trump banned by Twitter and Facebook.
The Democrats went after a rodeo clown for wearing an Obama mask for goodness sake.
Patterns are clear:
Coordinated advertiser boycotts.
Public celebrations of people losing jobs and businesses.
Two sets of rules — the Left can lie (Russia hoax, Covington kids smear, Jussie Smollett, etc.) and laugh about it, but the Right gets destroyed.
Accountability only ever goes one way. The Left has spent the last decade perfecting cancel culture, destroying jobs, nuking shows, wiping platforms off the internet, and laughing while people’s lives were ruined. But sure… Jimmy Kimmel smugly lying about a political assassination? Totally fine.
Wow, you mentioned the FCC in your rant's opening sentence but then failed to realize that none of your examples have the slightest to do with the FCC? Soggy brain strikes again.
the biden administration bypassed the FCC for the covid mislabeled covid "misinformation", the hunter laptop, etc.
This is a really pathetic failed whatabouting. It's not even clear what it means, but there was no "biden administration" when the hunter laptop nothingburger story appeared.
Someone doesnt like their double standard getting exposed
seems you also forgot obama 's treatment of Nakoula Bassely Nakoula.
Do you see a distinction between private action, e.g. boycotts, and governmental actions suppressing speech? No? So not very libertarian, are you?
"President Donald Trump on Friday reiterated his claim that critical television coverage of him is “illegal” and pushed back on criticisms that his administration was taking actions that chill free speech.
“When 97 percent of the stories are bad about a person, it’s no longer free speech,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, complaining about an apparent asymmetry between his victory in the 2024 election and his treatment by media organizations. It was not immediately clear what statistics or laws he was referencing."
Botaglove, that reminds me of something Ben Franklin published about Trump and tyranny (well, at least it was about tyranny and traitors (betraying our Constitution), which is what Trump is about).
“That Men ought to speak well of their Governours is true, while their Governours deserve to be well spoken of; but to do publick Mischief, without hearing of it, is only the Prerogative and Felicity of Tyranny: A free People will be shewing that they are so, by their Freedom of Speech."
“Without Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as publick Liberty, without Freedom of Speech; which is the Right of every Man, as far as by it, he does not hurt or controul the Right of another: And this is the only Check it ought to suffer, and the only Bounds it ought to know."
“This sacred Privilege is so essential to free Governments, that the Security of Property, and the Freedom of Speech always go together; and in those wretched Countries where a Man cannot call his Tongue his own, he can scarce call any Thing else his own. Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech; a Thing terrible to Publick Traytors."
Silence Dogood, No. 8, The New-England Courant, July 9, 1722 (quoting Cato's Letters)
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-01-02-0015
I know that you got a job, Ms. Cheney
But your husband's heart problem's complicating
So the FCC won't let me be
Or let me be me, so let me see
They tried to shut me down on MTV
But it feels so empty without me
Oh, look the FCC censoring people! Thats totally new (sarcasm).
The thing is: Kimmel is no Eminem.
My personal favorite is Pedro Pascal. Where was he when Disney cancelled Gina Carano?
I am a free speech absolutist; nobody should be canceled by the government. Performers should only get cancelled for bad ratings**.
Still, most of this hyperventilating is coming from anti-Trump people who were silent when the progressives were canceling the right. Censorship for me but not for thee.
The censorship wheel goes around and then comes around.
**Kimmel will find a home the same way Tucker Carlson did.
The FCC issued a fine against a radio station under a longstanding rule, then reconsidered and dropped it. Totally the same thing.
The most telling part of these events is getting some attention, but too little. It is Trump's insistent personal participation, shown by apparently pre-scripted confrontations with journalists, not just entertainers. That can be explained only by inference that Trump's intent has been to inflict fear as broadly as possible. There is no ambiguity left when Trump leans toward a journalist during an interview, insults the journalist, and threatens prosecution.
What remedy can there be for that conduct? What remedy would a Supreme Court sunk in pro-Trump partisanship support? What will Trump do if the Court continues unwilling to rein him in?
I think those questions answer themselves, and the answers point to only one course of action. Trump v. United states was ill-considered when handed down, and has proved disastrous since. It in effect abolished every Constitutional constraint on the Executive, short of impeachment and removal from office—which remains the same practical impossibility it has proved to be throughout U.S. history.
Trump is thus totally unconstrained, but has to be stopped. It would be far better for the nation if Trump were thwarted peacefully instead of by violence. The choice of which—or an alternative to dither—will be up to the Court. The Court will act, or no peaceful constraint will happen. If violence ensues, the nation suffers whatever unpredictable effects violent happenstance delivers. History teaches that chaos created by violence can last a very long time, for decades or even centuries. Suffering tends to increase during such intervals, not recede.
The present crisis in the US is thus an unprecedented emergency, which only the Court can address, and only if the Court chooses to act in an unprecedented way. The Court must revisit Trump v. United States on its own initiative, and announce what is already obvious beyond dispute. Trump v. United States was improperly decided. The Court must reverse that egregious error, and restore application of criminal liability to the Executive. Nothing short of that appears available to check the accelerating descent of this nation toward political disaster.
For those disposed to insist instead on deliverance by accustomed process, please explain what process you think will prove useful, and what makes you think it could work better than Supreme Court intervention.
Once more: that's still not a thing.
Nieporent — It's a thing the moment it happens. And you still have not suggested what could prevent it, or even what ought to prevent it. I think there are arguments which weigh against doing it, but I doubt anyone at this point can come up with an argument which outweighs doing it.
Stephen, please see my reply to David. SCOTUS cannot sua sponte decide a matter. But SCOTUS clearly can reconsider and correct their prior conduct or contentions by simply granting cert. when a party files a petition that would permit SCOTUS to do so.
The truth, however, is that SCOTUS doesn't need to do anything. Lawyers, judges and law professors need to pay more attention to what SCOTUS actually did and actually did not do. They need to tell the truth about what SCOTUS actually did and didn't do.
For starters, SCOTUS essentially "gave" Trump immunity for not much at all, if anything. SCOTUS said presidents have absolute immunity for performing "core" duties and might have immunity for performing "official" duties. Nothing for which Trump was being prosecuted or for which he might be prosecuted even possibly could be a core or official duty.
As Article VI emphasizes, the first, foremost and constant duty of "all executive and judicial Officers" (state and federal) is "to support" our "Constitution" in everything they do. As Article II more particularly emphasizes, the president's first, foremost and constant duty is to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to "the best of" his "Ability." That is Trump's first, foremost and constant core duty. Nothing Trump does to violate that duty even possibly can be the performance of an "official" duty, much less a "core" duty.
Lots of conduct purportedly under "color" of "law" or "custom" is criminal, and Trump cannot have immunity from prosecution for such criminal conduct. It is a federal offense for any purported public servant to act “under” mere “color of any” legal authority or purported “custom” to “willfully” deprive "any person" of "any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution” or federal “laws” (18 U.S.C. § 242) or to “conspire” with anyone to “injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person” in "the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to” him “by the Constitution” or federal “laws” or because such person “exercised” such “right or privilege” (18 U.S.C. § 241).
In addition to all the foregoing, the SCOTUS decision in Trump v. United States was essentially an unconstitutional "advisory opinion" to the extent that it pretended to decide whether Trump could be prosecuted for anything at issue in that case. If the SCOTUS justices actually had dared to state in their opinion that Trump could not be prosecuted for anything at issue in that case, they would have clearly and irrefutably violated the same language of Article III quoted in my reply to David. SCOTUS had no power to decide whether ANY actual conduct of Trump at issue in his case actually was a core or official duty or whether it was conduct for which Trump could be prosecuted.
As Article III emphasizes "the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make." SCOTUS had no "appellate Jurisdiction" to decide any issue that had not been decided previously by a lower court.
Stephen, I revised my reply to you.
The same thing that could prevent SCOTUS from tomorrow finding Joe Biden to be guilty of conspiracy to murder Charlie Kirk and ordering him executed on the spot.
David, instead of such unlawyerly arguments, why not say something substantive? Why not simply show Stephen the governing statute, 28 U.S.C. § 1254?
"Cases in the courts of appeals may be reviewed by the Supreme Court" ONLY, in relevant part, "By writ of certiorari granted upon the petition of any party to any civil or criminal case, before or after rendition of judgment or decree."
Because he's not asking a legal question.
Nieporent — It took you a while, but I think you are beginning to understand me. I was not asking a legal question.
But take another look at your reply, which it is all too easy to agree with. Because at this point there is nothing except incredulity to prevent SCOTUS from doing either what I proposed, or SCOTUS doing the execution of Biden nonsense you mentioned. SCOTUS already proved with Trump v. United states that it is willing to do whatever incredulity cannot prevent, and the law be damned.
Your argument seems wistful—a hope that regular legal order might be restored, and SCOTUS consent to be governed by it. If I believed that was about to happen, I would not suggest such an unconventional alternative. Do you think that is about to happen?
No. SCOTUS in Trump v. U.S. was deciding a case. It may have issued a terrible decision (spoiler: it did), but it did what courts do. What you are proposing is that it do something that courts don't do. At that point you've left the realm of meaningful discussion. If the rule of law doesn't exist, then your proposal — SCOTUS reversing its decision — would have no effect at all.
Nieporent — I defer to you on the law, but disagree on practical effects. I think there is a difference between an Executive acting with assurance that SOCTUS backs Trump v. United States, and an Executive unable to count on such backing.
Nor do I think, as you seem to do, that there will any time soon be a distinct line to separate, "rule of law," from variously inflected alternatives. If you compass Trump v. United States within your own notion of rule of law, then we differ on that too. I insist there must be more to rule of law than procedural orthodoxy wielded to thwart justice and baffle politics.
Stephen, I understand that you don't of think anything going on in the US today as presenting any legal question. But what you think or want to think about some higher power does not alter the fact that the issues being discussed are legal issues. It also does not alter the fact that you did ask a question that has an answer that is controlled by our Constitution and federal law. So David's contention that "[w]hat you are proposing is that it do something that courts don't do" isn't the answer. The answer to your question is that what you're proposing is something every SCOTUS justice and virtually every federal judge and many lawyers know SCOTUS cannot do. So you might as well just get on board with that and stop talking about some alternate reality.
Stephen, I understand that you don't of think anything going on in the US today as presenting any legal question.
Even reading through the inadvertent language muddle, what rejoinder can there be but, "Yikes!"
Stephen, fyi, don't take offense when I put words in all caps. That's for David's benefit, not yours. David represents that he is actually is a lawyer who has "practiced law" for 25 years, including before two federal district courts. Yet, he writes like a mean teen who has had too much to drink, and he apparently understands our Constitution and federal statutes and rules governing courts not even as well as many first-year law students. That's why he writes the way he does.
I would try to explain to you that lawyers do not write the same way professionally that they do in casual discussion, but no actual lawyer writes the way you do in either context.
David, for the sake of your clients, I truly hope that is true of you. Just look at your conduct here. You are arrogant and antagonistic to try to cover up the fact that you just don't know the law. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd just show Stephen so he wouldn't keep making the same mistake. You can't show because you don't know.
David, why don't you show Stephen why? Amendment X and Article III say it pretty succinctly:
Federal public servants have ONLY the limited "powers" that were "delegated to the United States by the Constitution."
In relevant part, all federal "judicial Power shall extend" ONLY to actually "Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution" and federal "Laws" and actual "Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party." According to federal court rules of procedure (federal law) every case or controversy must be initiated by a party filing a complaint or a petition in a federal court.
In other words, the People did not (by our Constitution) vest any power in any
federal court to sua sponte review or decide any case or controversy.
Jack Jordan — Nieporent does tend supercilious, but you will not impress many around here by denigrating his legal acumen.
Stephen, what legal acumen? The only person I'm hoping to impress is David, himself. If he truly is a lawyer, I would think he'd want to act like he had more self- respect. When I was working, I never even would have thought to hang out on a site posting comments. Even now that I'm not working, I would not even do so just to say absolutely nothing substantive.
Stephen, watching you and David pretend to discuss constitutional issues reminds me of James Madison's warning:
"A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or perhaps both. Knowlege will for ever govern ignorance: and a people who mean to be their own Governours, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
Jack Jordan — You may not be able to get this from reading Nieporent, but he knows I am mostly not attempting to discuss constitutional issues. I discuss mostly historical issues, and issues relating to the history of political philosophy, with the latter in the context of pre-founding era understandings.
I think both kinds of inquiry have capacity to add insight to the sorts of chronologically subsequent focus you insist upon. I think we are not connecting well. Your sense of relevant historical context differs from mine.
Among the conclusions you assert are many you take to be canonical constitutional principles. Many were not canonical during the founding era. Many were not yet dreamed of.
The founders remained in doubt until long after ratification whether their creations would succeed at all. None seemed willing to prescribe their handiwork as ideal. Some founders finished their Constitutional Convention convinced they had done merely the best work their at-variance interests permitted, and curious to see what would happen. I take that as the spirit most representative of the sense of the participants as a whole.
Much remained in question. Crucially, all the points of comparative thought available to them lay in the their past, none from their future.
Your assertions match commonplace—if sometimes questioned—presumptions about constitutional meanings destined to earn agreement only later, mostly much later, long after the founding era. That kind of information cannot be historically relevant as insight into founding era expectations, because time's arrow forbids it. The founding era was a time of choosing among options disagreed upon in some cases, or totally novel in others.
There is much more to this. At the time of the founding, the first question any of the participants had to answer was not, "What is the ideal form of government for a nation?" It was more like, "Where do nations come from in the first place, and how is it possible that the few are everywhere seen to govern the many?" That was the question James Wilson—and many other founders besides—took as their point of beginning. They did that because before they started consulting other authorities, they had to justify their own authority, not only to the nation they endeavored to serve wisely, but to themselves.
Stephen, you may not understand your own words, but you are, in fact, "attempting to discuss constitutional issues." You did so the last time I wasted hours corresponding with you, and you clearly did so in this thread Your contention to the contrary is actually absurd. You seem to be incapable of understanding what you purport to discuss.
In this thread, you repeatedly insisted on speaking of an absurdity (suggesting SCOTUS should sua sponte decide an issue that isn't even properly before SCOTUS). I showed you the parts of our Constitution and the law that prove your suggestion is absurd. You're simply delusional about what is possible.
As for your purported critique of what I purportedly write, are you thinking at all about what you're saying? You wrote:
"Your assertions match commonplace—if sometimes questioned—presumptions about constitutional meanings destined to earn agreement only later, mostly much later, long after the founding era. That kind of information cannot be historically relevant as insight into founding era expectations, because time's arrow forbids it."
Did you actually write that about anything I actually posted? If so show me what words I posted that you think your writing addresses. In this thread and my lengthy previously exchanges with you, I typically quoted literally the Constitution, itself, as well as James Wilson, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, Chief Justice Marshall. So show me the words that I've posted that warrant your assertions.
Jack Jordan, I write on a premise that history is about inferences drawn in response to properly-formulated queries, referencing particular times, places, and persons, about a past which has necessarily been forgotten. That is a formal description of an activity you do not understand. Least of all do you understand the limits that specific kind of process puts on what can and cannot be understood about any particular times, places, and persons in the past.
But this you ought to be able to understand. If the conclusion you assert is found nowhere in the historical record except from some later time and place than your query examines, then that later reference is inadmissible in any process to infer a relatively antecedent occurrence.
Thus, all your references to, for instance, constitutional law precedents handed down post-ratification, are irrelevant to consideration of pre-ratification occurrences. That is likewise true of quotations from founding era figures, for all those quotations evidenced from post-founding era sources.
That includes even quotations which purport to be recollections of what happened previously, during founding era activities. Those can be properly useful as inferences about the state of understanding at the later time their provenance indicates. They are not proper evidence for inferences of activities prior to that time. You are forced to that conclusion by the commonplace insight that nobody acting prior to that later recollection could have any awareness of it.
To assert the contrary supposes people engaged in the events of their own times, unlike ourselves, were capable to be influenced by their unknowable futures. Which is absurd.
That means you, as a would-be historian of the founding era, commenting with an eye to guidance for present constitutional conclusions, must confine your evidence and inferences to examples relevant to pre-founding contexts. Or to contexts analyzed in fine-grained chronological detail during contemporaneous founding era activities. But you must never rely for inference on anything subsequent to those times, unless your intent is to shift your focus deliberately to those later times, and then call your prior, earlier focus a well-known predicate. But you cannot do that without first demonstrating that it was well-known predicate. Which means your shift to a later frame of reference enlarges your historical problem instead of simplifying it.
For anyone who has followed that formal method of query and inference about a forgotten past, what you write here amounts to announcement that you have not. I commend that method which you have not followed to your attention.
If you do decide to undertake something like it, what you discover will doubtless surprise you. I can be sure of that, because it is not long before that method teaches every would-be historian who tries it to read for surprises. What those surprises show is the extent to which disregard for chronologically-limited inferences has muddled commonplace present understandings about what happened in the past.
History cannot be properly understood as an undifferentiated lump of everything which happened in the past. To attempt that is a commonplace activity. You see it practiced on this blog, and in courts of law, including the Supreme Court. You have done it yourself. But if you anatomize its methods, you discover they are invariably founded in present attentive interests, not in any notion of properly supported inferences about a forgotten past. That means they are not about history at all.
Stephen, the things you write are simultaneously exceedingly pretentious and astonishingly absurd.
Take, for example, your first sentence: “I write on a premise that history is . . . about a past which has necessarily been forgotten.” Is it even possible to actually mean that? If so, please explain what you meant?
Why do you think that you, alone, have discovered the sole and complete truth "about a past which has necessarily been forgotten" by every other person alive? What truth "about a past which has necessarily been forgotten" do you think that you, alone, have discovered? State even one such truth.
Take another example:
“all [my] references” to “constitutional law precedents handed down post-ratification, are irrelevant to consideration of pre-ratification occurrences. That is likewise true of quotations from founding era figures, for all those quotations evidenced from post-founding era sources.”
Do you truly mean “irrelevant”? Do you truly mean that when someone writes or speaks to describe what they or someone else did or thought (including to explain why they did something) their explanation is “irrelevant”? If so, the entirety of your own writing to purport to explain why you wrote what you wrote was “irrelevant.”
According your irrational theory of irrelevance, it is the mere statement in words about what a person did or why they did it that makes such statement “irrelevant.”
Once again, federal law is relevant. The Federal Rules of Evidence (written by lower court judges and approved by SCOTUS and Congress) establish an appropriate test for relevance, which I’ve modified very slightly to be more clearly relevant to your theory of irrelevance.
Rule 401. Test for Relevant Evidence
Evidence is relevant if:
(a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and
(b) the fact is of consequence in [understanding] the action [taken].
What principles support your theory of irrelevance, i.e., cause you to think that whatever a person says or writes about what that person or anyone else did or why was “irrelevant”?
Stephen, your thoughts and words are remarkably reminiscent of those of Voltaire's Pangloss in Candide. See https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/candide/character/pangloss/
Voltaire illustrates two major problems inherent in Pangloss’s philosophy. First, his philosophy flies in the face of overwhelming evidence from the real world. Pangloss is ravaged by syphilis, nearly hanged, nearly dissected, and imprisoned, yet he continues to espouse optimism. He maintains his optimistic philosophy even at the end of the novel, when he himself admits that he has trouble believing in it. Voltaire advocates the induction of ideas from concrete evidence; Pangloss, in contrast, willfully ignores any evidence that contradicts his initial opinion. He also produces illogical arguments to support his preconceived notions, justifying the consumption of pork by saying that “since pigs were made to be eaten, we eat pork all year round.”
Stephen, a bank robber once explained that he robs banks because "that's where the money is." https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/02/10/where-money-is/
What, if anything, about his post hoc explanation causes you think it was irrelevant? Does anything about it even cause you to think it was false?
Stephen, in this thread you repeatedly said that you thought SCOTUS could and should do something that clearly is prohibited by our Constitution. Then you tried to justify doing so by saying that you think you are "not attempting to discuss constitutional issues." By doing so, you revealed that you almost certainly simply don’t know what is in our Constitution. That’s ok. It’s ok to not know and to try to learn.
It’s not ok for you to pretend that our Constitution is irrelevant to issues just because you don’t know or don’t care what our Constitution says. You did that in this thread, and you have done so repeatedly in my discussions with you.
Our Constitution is not what you pretend it is. It is not merely an ancient historical document that merely provides evidence of what people thought or did more than 200 years ago. Our Constitution is, in part, a legal document that, every day, actually governs the functioning of our systems of law and government. It’s “power” as you put it, includes limiting the power of all our federal, state and local public servants every day.
The foregoing is the very point of Article VI expressly emphasizing that our "Constitution" is paramount as "the supreme Law of the Land," and further emphasizing that "the supreme Law of the Land" includes two lesser legal authorities, i.e., federal "Laws" that were "made in Pursuance" of our Constitution "and all Treaties." It’s also the point of Article VI expressly emphasizing that ALL state and federal legislators and "all executive and judicial Officers" are not merely bound BY our Constitution, they are "bound" to always in all official conduct "support" our "Constitution."
The foregoing is the point of Article II expressly emphasizing that the president's first, foremost and constant duty is to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to "the best of" his "Ability," and the foregoing duty specifically includes the duty to always "take Care that the Laws" enacted or approved by Congress are "faithfully executed."
The foregoing is the very point of Article VI emphasizing that “the Judges in every State” are “bound” by "the supreme Law of the Land" despite “any Thing” that potentially could be construed as any type of authority “to the Contrary.” It’s also the point of Article III emphasizing that federal “judicial Power” can “extend” no further than permitted “under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties.”
The foregoing is why 5 U.S.C. 3331 emphasizes that every executive branch employee below the president and every judge always must "support and defend" our "Constitution" against "all enemies, foreign and domestic" and always must "bear true faith and allegiance to" our Constitution.
The conduct of all federal, state and local public servants everywhere always and constantly is governed by the “the supreme Law of the Land." It makes no sense for you or anyone else to pretend otherwise.
The very dangerous inclination to make our Constitution irrelevant was addressed hundreds of years ago by Chief Justice John Marshall (writing for SCOTUS) in Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803). He specifically addressed the import of the oath required by Article VI, and his pronouncements necessarily are equally relevant to the oath required by Article II and 5 U.S.C. 3331 and any other federal law.
"[I]t is apparent, that the framers of the constitution contemplated that instrument, as a rule for the government of courts, as well as of the legislature.
Why otherwise does it direct the judges to take an oath to support it? This oath certainly applies, in an especial manner, to their conduct in their official character."
Any person violating the oath in Article II, Article VI, 5 U.S.C. 3331 or other federal or state law prescribing an oath to support our Constitution commits “worse than solemn mockery” of our Constitution, and any person who dares “take this oath” without believing it commits “a crime.”
“Certainly all those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be, that an act of [any] legislature" (ANY act of ANY public servant) "repugnant to the constitution, is void.”
Obviously, "the constitution is to be considered, in court, as a paramount law," so courts cannot "close their eyes on the constitution, and see only the law." Any purported "doctrine" to the contrary "would subvert the very foundation of all written constitutions. It would declare that an act, which, according to the principles and theory of our government, is entirely void; is yet, in practice, completely obligatory." It "thus reduces to nothing what we have deemed the greatest improvement on political institutions—a written constitution."
Think about what Marshall said and meant. Your approach (at least in your mind) “reduces to nothing what” Americans “have deemed the greatest improvement on political institutions—a written constitution." Please stop pretending our Constitution means nothing.
David, why not simply show Stephen the governing statute, 28 U.S.C. § 1254?
"Cases in the courts of appeals may be reviewed by the Supreme Court" ONLY, in relevant part, "By writ of certiorari granted upon the petition of any party to any civil or criminal case, before or after rendition of judgment or decree."
"but has to be stopped."
Stephen,
Please be careful. The Secret Service and/or FBI might take that as a True Threat and send armed agents to your door.
On cannot be too careful.
Stay safe,
Nico
Mr. Benjamin, thank you for the many insights you offered with this article. But please note one assertion ("the Court has invalidated the regulation of knowingly false speech") went too far. SCOTUS did not invalidate "the regulation of knowingly false speech." In United States v. Alvarez, SCOTUS said, "The Government has not demonstrated that false statements generally should constitute a new category of unprotected speech on this basis," i.e., on the basis of falsity, alone.
Alvarez (collecting cases) also emphasized that "the Court has been careful to instruct that falsity alone may not suffice to bring the speech outside the First Amendment. The statement must be a knowing or reckless falsehood."
SCOTUS even highlighted that some knowingly false speech can be punished under federal criminal statutes, which don't violate our Constitution. Alvarez quoting 18 U.S.C. 1001 (knowingly false statements in government proceedings); 18 U.S.C. 1623 (perjury); 18 U.S.C. 912 (impersonating a government officer); 18 U.S.C. 709 (abusing names of federal agencies); 18 U.S.C. 712 (abusing words such as “Federal” or “United States”).
I agree that Carr shouldn't have made those comments and that they contradicted past practices and the applicable regulations. Is anyone aware of any actions taken by the commission against the networks? Were there any direct communications, the actual openining of an inquiry, or anything else of that sort?
SKofNJ, there's a term of art for Carr's misconduct: jawboning. https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/what-jawboning-and-does-it-violate-first-amendment
Thank you. I was aware of that term. I'm just not sure that Carr's making those comments on a news program would be enough to demonstrate coercion, or a cause-and-effect between his remarks and the actions taken by the affiliates.
SK, fyi, I posted a reply to Clem, below.
Is anyone aware of any actions taken by the commission against the networks?
Well, there were the bogus meritless lawsuits filed against ABC and CBS and their parent companies. The networks agreed to pay a brib^H^H^H settlement to appease Trump. It's not the FCC, but it's clearly an "action" by the government against the networks.
As for the FCC, they don't regulate the networks, only the affiliates, so they are not going to take direct action against the networks. What Carr and Trump are saying about punishing the affiliates should count as "true threats"; you don't have to wait for a threat to carried out for it to be actionable. So, trying to argue "well, they haven't actually done anything yet" is sticking your head in the sand.
I'm not as sure as you that his comments on a news station are a true threat.
Sarcastro said it better than I could:
I haven't checked, but I think "true threat" is used only regarding threats of physical violence. By you're right that the problem with jawboning isn't necessarily the harm caused. It's the threat it implied. As SCOTUS re-addressed recently in NRA v. Vullo:
"In Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan," SCOTUS "explained that the First Amendment prohibits government officials from relying on the 'threat of invoking legal sanctions and other means of coercion . . . to achieve the suppression' of disfavored speech." SCOTUS focused on the fact that "the coerced party 'reasonably understood' the commission to threaten adverse action" even though "the defendant in Bantam Books, a state commission that blacklisted certain publications, lacked" the “power to apply formal legal sanctions.”
"Bantam Books stands for the principle that a government official cannot directly or indirectly coerce a private party to punish or suppress disfavored speech on her behalf."
Carr said on Benny Johnson’s podcast earlier this week, "Frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, we can do this the easy way, or these companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead."
Robert Corn-Revere, former chief counsel at the FCC and chief counsel of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, said via email, “This is more than regulation by raised eyebrow, which sounds quaint these days. It is regulation by raised fist. Brendan Carr’s threats to ABC sound like statements by a mob boss — not those of a public official who took an oath to uphold the law and the Constitution. The sad fact is that Carr well knows he has crossed the line and is violating the law. He simply has chosen to ignore it.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/brendan-carrs-threats-on-networks-may-be-jawboning-and-courts-dont-like-it-legal-experts-say/ar-AA1MUZvR?ocid=BingNewsVerp
SK, if you want to see the harmful effect of the jawboning, just see the cowering conduct of Jon Stewart (right out of 1984) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXNJ3V9lzg
Are leftists claiming the FCC had something to do with Kimmel getting axed? Is there any evidence for that at all, other than hid contemporaneous remarks?
"FCC said X, and then X happened. Therefore, the FCC caused X."
Humiliating belief system on full display.
Kleppe, the issue is the violation of a crucial aspect of our Constitution by someone purporting to be a public servant who (in order to obtain his position and pay) expressly acknowledged that his first, foremost and constant duty was to "support and defend" our "Constitution" against "all enemies, foreign and domestic" and to "bear true faith and allegiance" to our Constitution. See 5 U.S.C. 3331. Carr not only failed to support and defend our Constitution, he attacked and undermined it. So did his (mob) boss.
The issue is Carr's and Trump's misconduct, i.e., their jawboning. See https://eternallyradicalidea.com/p/jimmy-kimmels-cancelation-is-an-outrage
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/what-jawboning-and-does-it-violate-first-amendment
"He pointed a gun at the bank teller and said, 'Give me all the money in your drawer,' and then the bank teller gave him all the money in his drawer. Coincidence, obviously."
The 'move along nothing to see here' message is not going to play outside of MAGA. But I suppose it gives them some negation to yell when called upon.
Gotta keep the morale up.
To be clear: do you believe that Kimmel was axed because of what Carr said/did? Or if it's a combination of factors, what percentage of responsibility would you assign to Carr?
According to press accounts, ABC told Kimmel to correct his errors, and he refused. Dozens of stations were dropping the show. The show was losing money and ratings. Plus, Kimmel is not funny.
Kleppe, you're trying to move the goalposts. Your "defense" also is a mere non sequitur. The problem was the remarkable public confession by Carr that a public servant was abusing his position and powers for a purpose that he KNEW violated our Constitution. Why do you care about Kimmel? We all should care about Carr.
We all should care about crime. It is a federal offense for any purported public servant to act “under” mere “color of any” legal authority or purported “custom” to “willfully” deprive "any person" of "any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution” or federal “laws” (18 U.S.C. § 242) or to “conspire” with anyone to “injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person” in "the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to” him “by the Constitution” or federal “laws” or because such person “exercised” such “right or privilege” (18 U.S.C. § 241).
I think when Trump and the FCC are making threats,
then the result their threats seek happens,
then they boast about how their threats worked
then they start making new threats against other networks...
You'd have to be either an idiot or a huge liar to deny what happened.
Looks like simple economics to me. Kimmel has been irrelevant in the ratings for a long time, and now other companies were refusing to allow his show to be seen. I get that turning him into some kind of free speech martyr is convenient for you but it's abundantly clear that isn't what happened here. Stray comments from Carr don't change any of that.
Kleppe, and nothing that happened to Kimmel changes that the conduct of Carr and Trump violated their oaths and our Constitution. Which is more important to you, Kimmel or our Constitution?
Especially funny as Disney execs were on Kimmel for over a week about his show's tone and the syndication channels were heading out the door to go with his already poor ratings. None of that matters to Leftists though.
Kimmel refused orders to correct an error. He did not even have to apologize. He wanted to further make false and tasteless maga attacks. Many stations were dropping the show. The show had low ratings and was losing money. He was not funny. Yes, those things can get him fired.
This is all fiction.
At the very least, it's utterly irrelevant. It's a complete red herring. Nothing any non-governmental employee did matters. All that matters (as far as we know from information that is publicly available) is what Carr and Trump publicly said. All that matters (as far as we know) is their jawboning.
What matters most is the supreme law of the land, i.e., our Constitution and the relevant federal law. As Article VI emphasizes, the first, foremost and constant duty of every legislator and "all executive and judicial Officers" (state and federal) is "to support" our "Constitution" in everything they do. As Article II more particularly emphasizes, the president's first, foremost and constant duty is to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to "the best of" his "Ability." Trump and Carr are clearly and actively violating their oaths and our Constitution.
The overarching rule is simple and it was stated simply in Amendment X: federal public servants have ONLY the limited "powers" that were "delegated to the United States by the Constitution." All other "powers" relevant here regarding this particular case were "reserved" to "the people."
Amendment I emphatically established that our Constitution did not delegate any power to any federal employee to make or enforce any law that abridges "the freedom of speech, or of the press."
Jack Jordan — The Constitution is not a power, it is a decree. A question remains, what power greater than the US Executive's exists to force the Executive to back down?
Stephen, seriously? Take a wild guess. Seriously. Give us your best guess. Give us your three best guesses. As much time as I've devoted to educating you about our Constitution, by now you should at least have a decent guess or two.
Oh, good, now we've gone to the faux socratic portion of tonight's presentation.
David, why do you even bother to comment? You claim you've been "practicing law" for 25 years. But literally everything except one post that I recall you writing makes you sound like an arrogant fool with an alcohol-addled brain who either never knew or cannot recall how to say anything substantive. In the months I've been reading your comments, I recall seeing exactly one post by you that offered anything worth reading (and that was only barely).
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
Stephen, for starters, consider what SCOTUS said in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943):
"There are village tyrants as well as village Hampdens, but none who acts under color of law is beyond reach of the Constitution."
"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted **1186 to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections."
The "freedoms of speech and of press" are "susceptible of restriction only to prevent grave and immediate danger to interests which the state may lawfully protect."
"Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
[Clearly,] the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority."
It is a "fixed star in our constitutional constellation" that "no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."
What part is fiction ?
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tv/articles/jimmy-kimmel-told-apologize-charlie-210838241.html
Why do you think that matters? Even if there's no causal link, Carr's statements are still a disgrace that would have gotten him fired in any other administration. When statutes talk about firing someone for cause, this is the sort of thing they have in mind.
"When statutes talk about firing someone for cause, this is the sort of thing they have in mind."
But not, say, committing fraud. Right?
Could constitutional scholars seem more effete? Talk about a mere parchment barrier!
I think yiu said it better than I did. It’s like going into a brothel expecting to see a nunnery and complaining the staff doesn’t seem to behaving like proper nuns, replete with long quotes about the rules of proper modesty and propriety. It reflects complete cluelessness about what’s going on, especially in the back rooms.
Saying that what Trump is doing is constitutionally problematic is starting to get about as irrelevantly milquetoast as saying that Hitler seems to be having a problem respecting the civil rights of Jews.
ReaderY, you're right. As you may know, in the legal profession, words such as "constitutionally problematic" are called weasel words. People often use such words to deceive in one way or another.
Even so, you might be missing a very important principle at work here that underlies a crucial reason the First Amendment secures freedom of expression and communication. Our discussions of how Trump or other purported public servants are violating our Constitution and what should be done about their violations can help guide or inspire legislators or even judges and the lawyers writing for judges in particular cases.
Of course, judges are required to be independent of everything except what our Constitution requires or permits them to consider in a case. But it's perfectly legitimate--it even is essential to our systems of law and government--that we push and pull them to do exactly what our Constitution requires them to do.
Article III emphasizes that all federal "Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices [only] during good Behaviour." So many judges presume or pretend that they have "life tenure." They obviously don't, but their presumption or pretense highlights the difficulty in removing a judge who is behaving badly.
It is especially difficult to remove or discipline a federal judge for violating our Constitution and federal law with their so-called judgments, rulings or judicial opinions. Even so, judges typically like to at least appear to be good and wise. Judges typically prefer to not be perceived as being bad or corrupt. For that reason (in part) Chief Justice Roberts included this gem in his 2024 Year End Report (https://www.supremecourt.gov/publicinfo/year-end/2024year-endreport.pdf):
"Chief Justice Taft is the only person to have served as head of the judicial and a political branch. As he put it, 'Nothing tends more to render judges careful in their decisions and anxiously solicitous to do exact justice than the consciousness that every act of theirs is to be subject to the intelligent scrutiny of their fellow men, and to their candid criticism.' ”
Chief Justice Roberts was quoting W. H. Taft, Remarks at the Annual Meeting of the American Bar Association, American Law Register and Review 43(9) 577 (1895) (https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5392&context=penn_law_review).
Taft's remarks were delivered to, essentially, the entire American Bar Association. At that time, Taft was a U.S. Sixth Circuit judge. Later he became President and then Chief Justice. Much more of Judge Taft's remarks are well worth considering and quoting, including the following.
“The judge [sometimes] has a power over which no review can be exercised,” so he often “is amenable only at the bar of public opinion” and “it is unwise to [contend] that public opinion [of a judge] with such power shall neither be expressed nor led.”
"The opportunity freely and publicly to criticize judicial action is of vastly more importance to the body politic than the immunity of courts and judges from [even] unjust aspersions and attack. Nothing tends more to render judges careful in their decisions and anxiously solicitous to do exact justice than the consciousness that every act of theirs is to be subject to the intelligent scrutiny and candid criticism of their fellow-men.… [Regarding] judges having a life tenure, . . . the right freely to comment on their decisions [is] of greater importance, because it [may be] the only practicable and available instrument in the hands of a free people to keep such judges alive to the reasonable demands of those they serve…. [Clearly,] those most competent to express their judgment in such matters [are attorneys] belonging to the great and honorable profession of the bar."
No worries cult members, Trump will just sign an Executive Order overturning whatever the courts decide.