The Volokh Conspiracy
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Supreme Court Rejects Constitutional Challenge to State Limits on Sex Transition Treatments for Minors
The Court's majority avoids the larger question of whether laws targeting transgender individuals should be subject to heightened scrutiny, but Justice Barrett did not.
The Supreme Court issued five opinions today, most notably its decision in United States v. Skrmetti, rejecting a constitutional challenge to a Tennessee law prohibiting certain medical treatments for gender dysphoria for minors (e.g. puberty blockers and hormones).
The decision produced 112 pages of opinions. Chief Justice Roberts wrote for a 6-3 Court. Justice Alito concurred in part and concurred in the judgment. Justice Thomas and Justice Barrett each wrote separate concurrences (the latter of which Justice Thomas also joined). Justice Sotomayor wrote the principal dissent, joined by Justice Jackson in full and Justice Kagan in part. Justice Kagan also wrote a separate dissent.
Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Roberts concluded that the Tennessee law did not target transgender individuals as a class. Accordingly, his opinion did not reach the question of whether a law that did target transgender individuals is subject to heightened scrutiny. With heightened scrutiny off the table, the Court applied rational basis review, which the Tennessee law easily satisfied.
Justice Sotomayor's dissent disagreed with the majority across the board, concluding that the law did target transgender individuals, should be subject to heightened scrutiny, and failed heightened scrutiny. Interestingly enough, Justice Kagan agreed with the first two parts of the dissent, but did not think the Court should reach the third question. Rather, Justice Kagan urged, the lower court should have been given the opportunity to apply heightened scrutiny in the first instance.
Justice Alito only concurred in the judgment because he concluded, like Justice Sotomayor, that the law should be understood as one targeting transgender individuals, but he concluded that heightened scrutiny was not required and agreed with the majority that the law satisfied rational basis.
Writing separately, Justice Barrett argued that even if the Tennessee law were interpreted to target transgender individuals, it should not be subject to heightened scrutiny because transgender individuals should not be considered a suspect class. In short: "The Equal Protection Clause does not demand heightened judicial scrutiny of laws that classify based on transgender status. Rational-basis review applies, which means that courts must give legislatures flexibility to make policy in this area." In this she was joined by Justice Thomas.
Justice Barrett's concurrence in Skrmetti (as well as her dissent in Perttu, rejecting the Court's expansion of jury trial rights under the PLRA) are interesting to note given recent claims that she has "drifted" to the left, or was never a particularly conservative justice.
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Nice parting shot!
Did the woke doctors and woke institutions include the requirement of adult genitals in order to experience a sexual climax in the consent form? I would like to see a recording of the doctor explaining what a sexual climax is to an 8 year old boy, and that he he will never have one if he is before Tanner Stage 2 of puberty. If that fact is missing from the consent procedure and consent form, I would support litigation to retrieve the dollar value of never having a sexual climax for a life time, destroyed by these wokes. Sue the trans supremacist adults, like teachers, that indoctrinated the child into this hideous medical disfigurement.
“I would like to see a recording of the doctor explaining what a sexual climax is to an 8 year old boy, and that he he will never have one if he is before Tanner Stage 2 of puberty.”
Pretty sick kink to cop to.
Touché, Malika!
That recalls the late Lewis Grizzard's anecdote about his foot washing Baptist grandfather preaching at the Pleasant Grove Baptist Church in Georgia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cATtYuduJkU (beginning at 4:15) The punchline: "Damn, brother, I don' believe I'da told that!"
NG -Are you praising Malika because he is advocating making a kid a eunuch or is the praise for not telling the kid its going to make him a eunuch?
joe’s brain is not small.
However, it is small in comparison to a broad range of fruit, such as nectarines or limes.
Hi, Malika. I reported your comment, and I cannot find it anymore. I would like to know if others can still see it. The legal system is not protecting our kids. All chomos like the teachers that indoctrinated the disturbed kids and the doctors that profit off their distress should be visited. Their Democrat supporters of child mutilation, like the sick people here, should be reported.
This was part of the formal complaints filed against the programs in my state that engaged in these mutilation procedures. They listed the justiciable damages. The sick fuck Democrat regulatory bodies nitpicked and rejected them. I included a threat of an aggregate claim by these children against these agencies for taking tax money and returning nothing of value, honest services fraud.
Call it a coincidence. These underage gender change programs have stopped operating.
You are surprisingly wise to be anonymous.
I am praising Malika for calling out Supremacy Claus's perversity in wanting to view a recording of an interaction between a doctor and his young patient discussing sexual matters.
but you are not condemning the advocacy of making the kid a eunuch
I think this fellow may have had a lobotomy.
Made up Malika Makes Medical Diagnoses by Telepathy!!!!
Remember folks, the writer of the Frank Fakeman character performed here got caught with an elaborate story about being raised and educated here for decades but wrote like a third grader because he was left handed, or English was his second language, etc.
Think about how sad and mentally ill someone would be to make up that kind of thing on an anonymous website. What a pathetic weirdo.
This is the kind of person (persona?) that Trump attracts. Talk about delusions!
Your comment was reported. You turned a legal consent procedure to inflict a tragic mutilation of children by unethical, woke, ideologue doctors into a voyeuristic sexual act. Most of these children have other mental disorders and are gullible victims of this transgender supremacist scam. The legal system is not protecting our kids from people like Malika. Only self-help remains. All you chomos need to get visited.
Unemancipated minors are unable to provide informed consent. The exceptions are for treatment of STIs and pregnancy (of course, pregnancy instantly emancipates a minor).
If they cannot consent to having a hangnail removed, why are they allowed to have their bodies permanently mutilated? If they desire such mutilation, they can get it at adulthood (if they still want).
The law treats FtM and MtF the same. No discrimination...
Gender dysphoria is not a protected class.
I'm not sure that equal protection is the best argument here. I think getting medical treatment and having bodily autonomy are both fundamental rights, at least insofar as the state shouldn't be permitted to prevent them based on prejudice. But the courts haven't really paid much heed to that either.
The ban is not based on prejudice.
The ban is based on bad medical outcomes.
Sotomayor calls it a "categorical ban on lifesaving medical treatment".
Sotomayor doesnt know what she is talking about. Similar to the 100k hospitalized kids.
Sotomayor is the second dumbest person on SCOTUS.
Alito gets to be number one at something I guess!
He's the most awesome White Surpreme
I think I'll take Sotomayor with me to my doctor and demand that he implant an IUD in me. When he is incredulous, I will have her explain to him that what he is doing is sex discrimination. If I was a woman, he would have no issue implanting an IUD into me but is only refusing because I am a man.
This, according to Sotomayor, is classic sex discrimination.
Minors cannot consent to real lifesaving medical procedures (blood transfusions, for example). Permanent mutilation? Sure, why not!
And who pays for the mutilation? It's not cheap. Follow-on hormonal therapy isn't cheap, nor is psychological therapy.
If unstable adults want to mutilate themselves, that's one matter. I would hope someone would intervene but if someone is bound and determined to harm themselves, 'tis hard to prevent.
But we're not talking about adults here. The subject is children, who should not suffer life altering medical procedures because some ideologically driven parties want to push a trans agenda.
I don't see a constitutional issue with banning it for adults. States can regulate medical procedures as well as other activities. They can tell some quack doctor not to cut my arm off just because I am paying him money. Slapping the label "medical procedure" on something isn't a magic word that insulates it from laws.
States have the power to stop people from mutilating themselves.
One person’s mutilation is another person’s rhinoplasty.
That is actually a more insightful comment than it first appears to be. I think the medical community needs to reexamine its ethics (primum non nocere?) and morality with respect to destruction of healthy tissues/organs even of consenting adults, but you are correct that there is a continuum between "transgender medicine" and traditionally acceptable plastic surgery and sterilizing procedures such as elective hysterectomy following a birth.
I’m more of an autonomy for adults kind of guy, YMMV I get.
Consistently? You support the right to take hard drugs, prostitute oneself, etc? Many people do.
I do favor legalization of “hard drugs” and prostitution for adults.
and the Add-a-Dick-to-me apparently
One adults mutilation is another persons rhinoplasty...
Minors cannot give informed consent.
"But we're not talking about adults here. The subject is children, who should not suffer life altering medical procedures because some ideologically driven parties want to push a trans agenda."
Riva, you're a liar and the truth ain't in you. Genital surgery was not at issue in the case before SCOTUS whatsoever. The District Court opined:
L.W. ex rel. Williams v. Skrmetti, 679 F.Supp.3d 668, 681 (M.D. Tenn. 2023) [footnote omitted], rev'd on other grounds, 83 F.4th 460 (6th Cir.). No one appealed that issue.
If anyone ever administers an enema to Riva, the remains could likely be buried in a cigar box.
Riva's comment -"But we're not talking about adults here. The subject is children, who should not suffer life altering medical procedures because some ideologically driven parties want to push a trans agenda."
NG's comment - "Riva, you're a liar and the truth ain't in you. Genital surgery was not at issue in the case before SCOTUS whatsoever. The District Court opined..."
NG - where did Riva state genital surgery in his comment ?
NG - who is the liar ? riva or the person that made up something that wasnt said.
In the paragraph preceding the one I quoted, Riva wrote:
The juxtaposition of the two paragraphs -- especially the references to "mutilat[ion]" of adults and "life altering medical procedures" by "some ideologically driven parties [who] want to push a trans agenda" is a dog whistle for genital surgery.
The proponents of the prohibited treatment here are the minors, their parents and a physician who want to act in the best interest of their children and patients -- not "some ideologically driven parties."
You do understand that surgical mutilation is not the only sick procedure that can permanently harm children, don’t you NG? Puberty blockers can cause permanent damage as well. And of course, there is the long term psychological harm. Given the mental instability of many commenters here, they should be able to relate.
As for the informed and dedicated experts advising these obscene trans procedures, try and read the case. Their bs is adequately exposed, at least in the concurrences.
"But the courts haven't really paid much heed to that either."
Basically not any heed at all, or medical regulation in this country would look radically different.
"I think getting medical treatment and having bodily autonomy are both fundamental rights."
Should parents be allowed to sterilize their children, or to castrate their health children for non-gender reasons, like increased life expectancy or reduced risk of testicular cancer?
The healthy is doing some work in your comment, I don’t think any parents were contemplating the treatments at issue for Ss and Gs, but rather because their kid seemed miserable and doctors were telling them this might help. Now, in that situation I tend to think parents should have a great deal of say, but I get for lots of folks that whole “parents rights” thing is so 2021….
So, parents have the right to permanently mutilate a mentally disturbed child? And this from someone who supports schools pushing a trans/gay agenda on students against the will of parents. You're not actually a font of intellectual integrity, are you sport? You've got a shit of leftist "intellectual" integrity but that's kind of the opposite.
“And this from someone who supports schools pushing a trans/gay agenda on students against the will of parents.”
It looks like you’re responding to me but this must be directed at someone else, because I don’t support that
“You've got a shit of leftist "intellectual" integrity”
Riva bot needs a diagnostic run right away!
Not sure I understand your point. At least you can fall back on parroting crazy Dave’s buffalo bill inspired insult. Nice that you two get along. Did i say nice? I meant kind of sick but you and crazy Dave are adults and what you do together is none of my business. I respect your autonomy.
You’re not sure you understand my point? That I haven’t and don’t support what you said I did or that your last sentence was gibberish?
This bot really needs checking!
You've made a whole stream of comments here. If you have a position on something, I sure don't really know what the f it is, other than that maybe you're trying to show how much an asshole you are? But keep on parroting the demented insults.
My insult, by the way, is not the buffalo bill level sick demented insults you like to parrot. And it is well founded because you really are an asshole. I don't think I'm the first one to point this out to you. And I won't be the last. Now go away. We're done here.
“If you have a position on something, I sure don't really know what the f it is”
And yet you opined as if you did. You were wrong. Get that diagnostic bot!
The sole issue before SCOTUS was the Fourteenth Amendment equal protection clause. The Plaintiffs (minor children, their parents and a physician sought certiorari on substantive due process issues as well, but only the Department of Justice's cert petition (which did not include any SDP issue) was granted.
"The healthy is doing some work in your comment, "
Huh? It's a hypo in response to WNI's bodily autonomy argument. I'm not suggesting people are doing that, I'm asking if people have the right to.
My point is it’s not very apt because of course most procedures for healthy kids are unnecessary, that’s not what these parents were facing.
Necessary or not, they may have some benefits. Do children, or parents acting on behalf of their children, have a right to avail themselves of those benefits?
Parents are already performing gender assignment for intersex infants. They're amputating infant foreskins. These things are already happening.
This may have some ethical relationship with parents who refuse necessary medical care for children for religious reasons. I don't see much difference between surgeries that sterilize or castrate healthy children and refusal of surgeries required to maintain health. OTOH, hormone blockers are not a permanent change but a stopgap measure to let the child mature enough to make the decision for themselves.
Suppose a state were to criminalize the circumcision of a minor for purposes of religion, but not for secular purposes. Under the reasoning of SCOTUS here, that would not offend the Fourteenth Amendment equal protection clause.
Although I found Sotomayor's argument that SB1 classifies on the basis persuasive, I don't think your conclusion follows from the Court's reasoning. The Court found the law classified on the basis of the medical reason for the treatments (rather than sex). In contrast in your hypo, the law classifies on the basis of a religious reason for the procedure.
But even if I am wrong, that law face strict scrutiny under Free Exercise doctrine.
That is why I omitted any discussion of a free exercise claim from my comment.
I think your hypo law likely fails under EP too.
"Parents are already performing gender assignment for intersex infants. They're amputating infant foreskins. These things are already happening."
So what?
"OTOH, hormone blockers are not a permanent change but a stopgap measure to let the child mature enough to make the decision for themselves."
1. They can certainly have permanent effects.
2. They prevent children from maturing. A child who is chemically castrated will never have a sexual experience; how can he decide that he doesn't want to have sexual experiences?
So what? Pretty blithe for mutilation of infants!
It’s not mutilation.
Twelve Inch, suppose I agree with the conservatives here who think that this is permanently damaging mentally ill children for no good reason. I don't think that, but for sake of argument let's run with it.
The fundamental question is what is the extent to which parents have the right to damage their children. And parents do damage their children in lots of different ways, sometimes intentionally and sometimes out of ignorance and stupidity. I've done enough family law to have seen it.
"They fuck you up, your mum and dad
They may not mean to, but they do
They give you all the faults they had
And add some extras, just for you."
So the question is where to draw the line between what is acceptable and what is not. Do parents who feed their children a diet of nothing but junk food, making them obese and giving them heart disease before they're 40, go too far? What about parents who are hostile to education and raise kids who are functionally illiterate, with no prospects in life?
I do not find this an easy question. In general, I lean in the direction of parental rights, despite having seen first hand just how much damage bad parenting can do. But here's my question for you: If you think parents should be prevented from providing their kids with gender-affirming care, what principled line are you drawing to ensure it really is a principle and not just anti-trans prejudice?
It has been decades since my daughter reached the age of majority, but if such an issue had come up before then, I know beyond cavil that her mother and I would have been better decision makers than the clowns of the Tennessee General Assembly and the Governor.
This isn't a decision of whether to let your kid stay out until after the movie or after a snack after the movie. Nor is it one about whether she can borrow the family car.
These are serious and life altering decisions that the state has rightfully decided that they are outside the zone of reasonable parental authority. It is garden variety legislation.
Parents have wide authority up to a certain point---beyond which the state takes over. You elect people to make these distinctions.
"If you think parents should be prevented from providing their kids with gender-affirming care, what principled line are you drawing to ensure it really is a principle and not just anti-trans prejudice?"
It's not a principle. As you say, it's line drawing by an elected legislature. I support allowing parents to circumcise their children, I don't support allowing parents to remove their children's healthy genitals. I support allowing parents to pierce their children's ears, I don't support allowing people to cut their children's ears off.
I don't need to draw the line, I just need to know what side the important parts are on.
There’s that healthy again. Was the foreskin unhealthy? Why is circumcision not “mutilation?”
What about ear pinning?
Circumcision survives because it's been around for a long time and has the endorsement of all three monotheistic religions. If today, someone were to propose for the very first time that male infants should have their foreskins removed, that person would be lucky not to end up on the sex offender registry
That’s my suspicion as well.
It wasn't that long ago that someone proposed that female children who want to be boys should have their breasts removed.
No, the foreskin isn't unhealthy. Circumcision is removing the healthy foreskin of an infant.
To be clear, which part am I wrong about? Are you claiming that parents who follow their faith and have their healthy child circumcised should be imprisoned and have their kid taken away, or should parents who have their healthy child's genitalia removed entirely not be imprisoned and keep their kid?
Since you can't change your biological sex, the majority was correct.
As to the last paragraph, yes, to cite the NYT piece:
“It’s a mistake by ignorant conservatives and wishful liberals to believe she’s moderating,” said Noah Feldman, a Harvard law professor who befriended her when they clerked at the court. Like others who know her, he said that both the right and the left had misread her. “She’s exactly the person I met 25 years ago: principled, absolutely conservative, not interested in shifting.”
and
But few of Justice Barrett’s alliances with liberals have come in marquee cases. “People are treating her as a cipher and projecting liberal desires on her, like we want her to be like John Paul Stevens or Souter,” said Melissa Murray, a New York University law professor.
“I’m waiting for a case in which her break with some of the other conservatives really makes a difference,” said Michael C. Dorf, a law professor at Cornell.
She sometimes breaks with other conservatives when they are not conservative enough in her view on a subject.
Prof. Murray and her fellow "Cassandras" on the Strict Scrutiny Podcast might be preferred to the so-called one on this blog.
I think there is an important difference. As I read Bostock, it addressed only transgender behavior as behavior. A man dressing in woman’s clothes isn’t analytically different from a black person sitting in the front of of the bus; both are engaging in behavior traditionally associated with one sex/race and frowned on when the other sex/race does it. As I read it, this interpretation was critical to the ruling’s textualist approach and hence its claim to legitimacy, because it enabled the Gorsuch majority to make its ruling strictly “about” sex without introducing any new, extra-textual concept or category.
Under this interpretation of Bostock, a man fired for coming into work dressed as a woman once would have as much of a Bostock claim as a man who always does. Behavior, not identity or status, is what the law is about.
But Skrmetti’s take on Bostock talks about transgender identity and status as things separate and distinct from transgender behavior. One can identify as a transgender person without engaging in any transgender behavior, or engage in transgender behavior without any transgender identity. If Bostock protects only transgender status, then presumably it doesn’t protect the merely casual cross-dresser.
More fundamentally, as I see it the claim to legitimacy is shot. All the cases used as precedent were about behavior; the idea was this is just a natural extension of them, not something new. But once we introduce a new concept like sexual identity or status that’s distinct from sex into the mix, we’ve gone away from a simple analogy to a black person sitting in the front of the bus, we’re introducing completely new words and legsl concepts, and we’ve gone off the text and what its language can support.
If Bostock protects status and not behavior, would the Civil Rights Laws still protect the black person who sits in the front of the bus or the man who dresses as a woman only occassionally, without its being part of his racial or sexual identity?
So you are saying that under Bostock I couldn't fire a man if he engages in gay sex at work or home (behavior) but I could fire him if I hear that he is gay outside of work and I never see it --or indeed even if he is celibate but attracted to other men (status)?
Or do I have that backwards. I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making.
This is such a weird analogy. Do you know why black people once didn’t sit in the front of the bus?
A better example would be a black guy getting fired for being Carlton from the Fresh Prince.
Now you're telling Race-ist Jokes? no fair not giving the Punchline.
Did you hear the one about the Jew, the Catholic, and the Colored Boy who go to Heaven??
"A man dressing in woman’s clothes isn’t analytically different from a black person sitting in the front of of the bus; both are engaging in behavior traditionally associated with one sex/race and frowned on when the other sex/race does it."
So, can't fire a white guy for wearing blackface to work, because a black guy could get away with it?
I thought the funeral home case was particularly egregious, "He's creeping out our customers!" seems like a pretty solid occupational requirement case in such a heavily customer relations dominated industry.
"So, can't fire a white guy for wearing blackface to work, because a black guy could get away with it?"
Isn't that a pretty straightforward application of the reasoning in Bostock?
Seems like it would be, I'm questioning whether it would actually get applied that way.
We've heard all these "behavior" arguments before when sodomy laws and same-sex marriage were before the court.
The core issue with trans persons (and LGB persons too) is that they exist outside of the conservative, traditional gender roles for men and women.
This interpretation is the opposite of what Bostock says:
Bathrooms,, locker rooms, etc. come under a traditional privacy exception, and the Court did not address the continuing validity of that exception.
How about dress codes. That's behavior and wasn't decided in Bostock. What was decided is (my emphasis) "an employer who fires someone simply for being homosexual or transgender has discharged or otherwise discriminated against that individual because of such individual’s sex."
Hence my comment above. It would seem silly that an employer could treat an employee differently because he engages in gay sex (behavior) versus his gay orientation (status).
The Venn diagram on those two are almost a circle.
I agree, but as often is the case, the justices like to leave questions not needed to dispose of a case to be answered on another day.
My main point was ReaderY's interpretation that Bostock was about behavior and not status is wrong.
Essentially, "We decline at this point to follow our reasoning to it's ultimate conclusion, (Because who knows if we'll be in a mood to be consistent?) and will thus pretend everybody can't see what that ultimate conclusion is already."
As an aside I have never read a "those laws are not before us today" opinion that was good. This line is always used because the logic of the opinion is poor, leads in shocking and unwarranted directions, and the Court just doesn't have a ready answer to deal with it.
What did Barrett have for breakfast the morning she drafted her opinion? You have to practically beg for her to come to any result at all but in a case that disposes of a rather major issue without deciding it, she wants to write an advisory preview opinion that transgender status is not subject to heightened scrutiny. That's stunning for any Justice, let alone her.
it's open season on trans people, apparently. laws can be passed with the specific, stated intent of hurting trans people - rather than having to claim it's "protecting kids" - and that's all hunky dory! laws banning HRT for adults at any age, specifically drafted to make us suffer, would presumably be Constitutional. next up: sodomy laws, probably.
The stated and actual intent is to keep a particular clique of doctors, (And possibly parents.) from preying upon temporarily confused minors by performing irreversible treatments to validate that confusion before they can grow out of it.
Dude is a tranny and just pissed they can't crack eggs of unsuspecting children.
Every accusation….
you're right, I'm a "tranny" (classy use of language, by the way.) but I'm not going around transing your kids, dude. and nobody transed me. I just came like this. I was always the pansy who wished I could be a girl. I've been on HRT for a decade and never regretted it.
I'm content living my quiet little life, but people like you think people like me are the spawn of Satan, that we're coming for your kids, and it's scary. it feels like being a Jew in the shtetl and hearing the gentiles talk about blood libel. it's Pride month and I am genuinely worried some nutjob will show up with an AR-15 and mow me down because he thinks he's saving babies from the evil trannies.
not that you'd care. you want us dead, you just don't have the guts to pull the trigger yourself.
"it feels like being a Jew in the shtetl"
Its nothing like that. Your angst is nothing compared to the last 2000 years for Jews.
When did you start HRT? As an adult or a minor?
as an adult. it's the single largest regret of my life. I'd give anything to have started before 18.
and you don't have a Uterus or Ovaries to get Cancer in, and you're also help preventing your Prostrate from getting the Big Casino also.
That's not the facts of the case, as was pointed out in the open thread.
But go off I guess. You do hate those trans people!
puberty itself is irreversible, whether it's natural or HRT. most trans kids don't grow out of it. but you? you hope your kid is one of the rare exceptions. because if they're wrong and you're right, you can still love them. and if they don't snap out of it? if they hate their body and the irreversible changes caused by natural puberty? well, then they're a tranny, so their life is worthless to you anyway.
*fingers crossed *
thenotoriousrbg 21 minutes ago
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Mute User
it's open season on trans people, apparently. laws can be passed with the specific, stated intent of hurting trans people -
Notorious -
Have you ever thought about getting a grasp of basic science?
Let this guy with his accounting degree explain!
Not my fault you dont understand basic biology facts.
Only a chump goes to an accountant for “biology facts.”
Not my fault you dont understand basic biological facts.
Only a chump goes to an accountant for “biology facts.”
Rest assured that this accountant can not help you with your embarrassment , insecurities or other mental shortcomings due to your lack of knowledge of basic biological facts
Can’t help with writing skills either, I see!
I studied neuroscience in college. I worked on algorithmic protein and drug design. I've studied the whole SRY->DMRT1->FOXL2 signaling cascade for embryonic sex differentiation, the quaternary structure of the androgen receptor complex, the action of neurosteroids on GABA receptors, the effect of sex hormones on bone remodeling, the effects of IGF-1 on breast development.
I could always learn more, though. I mostly concentrated my studies on researching experimental, more effective HRT. but you're right, I should probably study lab-grown organs and tissue 3D-printing.
It's not that complicated, if you're a Dude and you chop off your Schlong, you're not a Chick, you're a Dude with a chopped off Schlong.
I agree this decision would extend to a law which bans HRT for treatment of gender dysphoria in adults.
But at the same time, Bostock is still good law so you can't fire someone for being transgender. And, there are only 2 votes (Thomas and Alito) for not applying Bostock to the Equal Protection clause, plus a third (Barrett) for gender identity not being a quasi-suspect classification independent of a Bostock argument.
Is is however clear that Barrett is not going to be friend of the transgender given wvattorney's observation there was no need for her to write that concurrence given she rarely goes beyond issues needed to dispose of a case.
banning HRT would be a much more devastating outcome than permitting employment discrimination. I can find a different job, but I can't live without HRT. we'd all either turn to the black market or emigrate.
Moving to a blue state should suffice.
unless there is a Federal ban.
That would take 60 votes. Democrats won't let it happen.
You know how many gallons of Horse Piss they have to get to make one .625mg Premarin tablet???
Still have to pass the rational basis test.
LOL, I was going to say the same thing--see how liberal Barrett is today!
I haven't fully read the opinion but I wonder what effect this will have on the "men in women's sports" questions in the lower courts.
It seems that with all of the "assuming without deciding" the Court did and declining to reach certain issues, it won't change much on that front.
since the case was only about the medical treatment, it should not have touch on the issue of men in womens sports.
In the grand scheme - men in womens sports is trivial compared the much broader issue of the horrendous belief and encouragement of chemically and surgically mutiliating children is providing proper medical care.
Well, I see where you're coming from. But if, say, the judiciary decided that 800lb metal robots capable of 50mph could not be excluded from NFL games - perhaps because this is discrimination against their nerdy, weakling, four eyed designers - I expect some folk could become at least slightly annoyed.
So I wouldn't quite be dismissing the men in women's sports thing as "trivial." Maybe "not quite so important" would do the job.
Lee - sorry if my statement was misinterpreted.
Men in womens sports is not trivial
However it is only trivial in comparison to the much broader issue of the advocacy of chemically and surgically mutilating children.
“Men in womens sports is not trivial
However it is only trivial”
Lol
Trivial "in comparison"
work on your reading comprehension
And yet you wrote it is not trivial.
Work on your writing skills.
Trivial "in comparison"
work on your reading comprehension
And yet you wrote it is not trivial.
Work on your writing skills.
you truncated the full statement - and repeated it twice
lack of ethics and dishonesty on your part
To match your lack of writing skills.
It’s no better in full.
You literally first state in non-qualified fashion it is not trivial, then you follow up with “it is trivial in comparison…” Any fifth grade English teacher would flag that goofy writing.
The sports issue (Trump withholding funding to states that permit trans women to compete in women's sports in schools) is a statutory question under Title IX. Trump claims Title IX requires a prohibition of trans women. Whether it does has little or nothing to do with this case.
I agree with that. However, my state prohibits biological boys from competing in girls school sports. We are currently under an injunction from the Fourth Circuit that has stayed that law. We see biological boys winning high school girls' track meets and such.
I just wonder if this decision, that this is not sex based, would impact the Fourth Circuit decision such that the injunction should be lifted.
Off the top of my head, there does not appear to be a basis for that law independent of sex (such as medical condition).
“We see biological boys winning high school girls' track meets and such.”
You’ve seen this in West Virginia?
A male transgender athlete will participate in a girls’ outdoor track and field state championship meet in a deep red state this weekend.
Freshman Becky Pepper-Jackson qualified to compete in the West Virginia High School State Track and Field Championships thanks to strong performances May 15 at the Class AAA Region I meet.
During that meet, the Bridgeport High School student placed third in shot put (34 feet, 3.75 inches) and fourth in the discus (108 feet, 8 inches). Pepper-Jackson has placed seventh statewide in girls’ discus and ninth in shot put.
Not first place - but podium finishes
Linking must be as difficult as writing for this guy.
"A healthcare provider shall not knowingly perform or offer to perform on a minor, or administer or offer to administer to a minor, a medical procedure if the performance or administration of the procedure is for the purpose of:
(A) Enabling a minor to identify with, or live as, a purported identity inconsistent with the minor's sex;..."
Why wouldn't a simple workaround be to rename clinics as institutes for esthetics/cosmetics for the discriminating trans? Don't ask, don't tell. Just ask the Jews of Nazi Germany. They had to do a lot of subterfuge to live
"targeting transgender individuals"
No, it is aimed at transgender minors. Adult transgender people are unaffected by this law. States have considerable leeway in protecting minors, whom the law recognizes have limited ability to decide what's in their interests.
Although the Court noted this fact, none of the justices took it into consideration in their analysis.
IMO, the whole classification (suspect class) and scrutiny system breaks down when you are talking about a law aimed exclusively at minors. The "suspect class" was because historically certain kinds of discrimination were adopted with invidious intent, mainly race, but also a few others. Minors as a class just doesn't fit into that.
Someday, all these state power humiliations and marginalizations of gay people will end. It is a black stain on our nation, but I feel somehow privileged that I was here to witness it firsthand
Double Non-sequitur. But hey, when rationality fails, claim victimhood.
Well, you're the expert on black stains
I realize the bigoted hatred won't end even after legal emancipation...as you have so embarrassingly demonstrated here, Frankie. Nevertheless, I'm always intrigued to see a racist Jew such as yourself considering your people's terrible history. It proves, like I previously said, we're all savages...none more so than you
Make up your mind, I thought I was a Hillbilly?
Do you agree a law which bans hormone treatments for treating gender dysphoria in adults passes muster under this ruling?
Seems like it. That's why I prefer my analysis.
Once you are an adult, the state's interest in telling you what to do is greatly diminished, assuming you don't harm anyone.
Five opinions. Thanks, C.J. Roberts. You're a hell of a leader.
So, do you want a court where the chief can prevent the other justices from writing separately?
One thing about federalism is that, this decision will probably have less practical impact than anticipated. It will only affect red states in CA4, 7, 9, and 10.
What about the federal government? It's unlikely that any of the Senate Democrats are willing to concede such that they can pass filibuster-proof anti-transgender laws. Reconciliation is an option, but its scope is limited. The executive branch can implement some policies, but they will not be permanent.
Whatever the actual effect is, it's still a big precedent.
Why wouldn't this decision have the same impact in red states in other circuits?
It's precedential impact seems to be limited to medical regulations rather than transgender rights in general.
These four circuits' pro-trans rights precedents would be severely eroded by today's decision. Other circuits already ruled against transgender plaintiffs.
The holding is limited in theory, but it might not matter - because most laws challenged by them don't target transgender people in the text (despite the obvious legislative intent and their practical effects), it's easy to just cite this case and dismiss.
And the concurrences don't help, either.
Actually, decisions of Courts of Appeals and District Courts which had determined that transgender individuals are at least a quasi-suspect class for equal protection purposes will be unaffected by today's decision in regard to that question. Intermediate scrutiny will continue to apply in those jurisdictions.
Chief Justice Roberts delivered a punt that Ray Guy would envy.
What are those precedents in the four circuits?
Grimm v. Gloucester Cnty. Sch. Bd., 972 F.3d 586, 613 (4th Cir. 2020) ("we conclude that heightened scrutiny applies because transgender people constitute at least a quasi-suspect class."), see also, Williams v. Kincaid, 45 F.4th 759, 772 (4th Cir. 2022); Brandt by and through Brandt v. Rutledge, 47 F.4th 661, 670 n.4 (8th Cir. 2022) (finding that the district court did not commit clear error when it found that transgender individuals constituted a quasi-suspect class); Hecox v. Little, 104 F.4th 1061, 1079 (9th Cir. 2023) ("We have previously held that heightened scrutiny applies to laws that discriminate on the basis of transgender status, reasoning that gender identity is at least a 'quasi-suspect class.'" Citing Karnoski v. Trump, 926 F.3d 1180, 1200-01 (9th Cir. 2019)). I don't know what the other circuit precedent(s) recognizing a suspect class are.
Wow, Malika is really obsessed with Children's Genitals (and cutting them off)
Although I agree that the Court need not and therefore should not have raised the issue in this case, I have long had the view that creating a new suspect category requires a constitutional amendment, and no such amendment has occurred.
When judges get to decide who the persecutors and who the persecuted are, there is too much of a risk that they will identify their personal friends or those they ideologically agree with as the persecuted, and their personal enemies and those they ideologically disagree with as the persecuted.
The people of the Old South, and their personal enemies ex-confederates after the Civil War, claimed to be persecuted by people who simply hated them and abhorred their way of life for no rational reason at all. Calvin famously decried abolitionists for their vile hatred of other people’s way of life for no reason at all other than archaic, superstitious morals that civilized people had long since left behind. The Supreme Court implemented his and similar judgments. Their doing so has long cast doubt on the capacity of Supreme Court justices to declare moral winners and losers and to impose extraconstitutional moral judgments with any more reliability than anyone else.
In this country, many people identify with their work more than their sex life. For many, either marriage or casual dating is simply something one does, while their real identity, their real sense of self, is wrapped up in their sense of vocation. Every year, hundreds of thousands of people resolve conflicts between their job and their marriage by keeping their job and getting divorced.
Why shouldn’t such people be as entitled to choose their partners for the aspects of life they find most important to their identity as people who find their sex life more important? Who commissioned federal judges to roll up the constitution and smoke in order to discern in the resulting penumbral and emanational haze what aspects of their lives people may and may not be allowed to find important to them? Who gave federal judges the power to declare the man who finds working with woman difficult and feels more comfortable in an all male environment a persecutor, while the man who feels the same sense of comfort at home persecuted?
If tomorrow the Supreme Court were change their sympathies, decide to hear the plight of people who need an all-male or all-female work environment to be able to feel secure, be productive, and self-actualize their potential, if based on this sympathy they were to strike down the Civil Rights Act as an animosity-based law violating the right of vocationally gay people to express their natural same-sex preference in the parts of their lives THEY find essential to their identity, how could such a decision be any less legitimate than those made by the current lot? Almost identical rhetoric would be used, just substituting a few particulars. There’s simply no way that the constitution itself inherently finds people with same-sex vocational preference inherently evil, any more than it finds people with same-sex domestic preference inherently good. It’s just a question of who the court’s friends and enemies are. The constitution should not be coopted to serve personal ideas of right and wrong.
As I see it, people who need a same-sex work environment to be productive ought to be as entitled to petition legislatures for relief as people who need a same-sex home environment were. But the Supreme Court has no business playing favorites and choosing one over the other. It should not constitutionalize its members’ personal beliefs about who is right and who wrong in each case. Absent a constitutional amendment warranting differential treatment, the constitution, and the Court, should not take sides but should treat everyone equally.
TBH, no parent of school age children should need an extra reason to leave the shithole called Tennessee.
All this gay bashing made me want to go and see some scenes on Youtube from Brokeback Mountain. Here are the actual first two comments from a fairly powerful scene. As you can see, they live in constant fear. They can't socialize, get cakes, go to the bathroom, give blood, adopt, marry. And now you place their kids under subjugation. Shame on all of you.
"As a gay man who grew up on a real working dairy farm in a rural area (nearest town had 75 folks). This is a hard watch for me. It was a wretched existence and I had a brutal, abusive, father. This movie is good, but it hits too close to home. I was expected to be married by 19 or 20. I dated girls, went through the motions, but ultimately I stayed single. I heard vile things from my father, and I witnessed him kill himself 4 years ago. Before he did it, he told me again what a disgusting disappointment I was. It’s like being haunted thinking about being found out. When I see our current political climate again singling out gays as the target of their agendas it scares the life out of me. God bless. I hope everyone who reads this finds the happiness they deserve."
"I was a closeted high school teen living at home with a very religious upbringing. When this movie came out I knew I had to see it. Our local K-Mart had it on sale and I was a nervous WRECK throughout the entire purchasing process. I thought someone would recognize me and out me to my parents. Luckily enough I made it home unnoticed. I waited for my parents to go to bed then locked myself in my room and popped the DVD in the player. I remember going through every single emotion. Sadness, Anger, Joy, Resentment... But this part in particular, BROKE ME. I cried so much. To think he kept that shirt because it was the ONLY thing he had to remember Enis by. It was a hopeless memoir of their relationship. But it was all he had, and he cherished it. This will always be one of my go to movies. It might not have the ending we want but it makes you appreciate how far we've come."
Sotomayor might have had you chemically castrated. Be glad that she is in the minority.
I guess Jackson is a biologist NOW!