The Volokh Conspiracy
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Trump's Shameful Betrayal of Ukraine
It's a terrible decision for both moral and pragmatic reasons.

Today is the third anniversary of the beginning of Russia's full-blown assault on Ukraine, on February 24, 2022. Sadly, over the last few weeks, the Trump Administration has moved towards abandoning Ukraine to its brutal enemy. Trump has essentially adopted the Kremlin line on the war - blaming Ukraine for Russia's aggression, and made a series of concessions to Vladimir Putin (foreclosing Ukrainian membership in NATO, letting Russia keep the territory it occupied, etc.), without demanding anything from Russia in return. The Administration has been trying to make a deal under which the US will have rights to much of Ukraine's mineral resources. But they aren't offering any security guarantees or continuation of military aid in return. On top of that, as part of a broader assault on legal immigration, Trump has suspended the highly successful Uniting for Ukraine program, under which Americans are able to sponsor Ukrainian refugees to live and work in the US.
This shift is reprehensible on both moral and strategic grounds. Most conservatives back US support for Israel's war against Hamas, because of the horrific atrocities of the latter. Russian atrocities in Ukraine are comparably awful, and on a much larger scale. Russian forces have brutally massacred civilians, tortured and executed prisoners, and kidnapped thousands of children.
Don't take my word for it. Take that of the millions of people who voted with their feet seeking to escape oppressive and murderous Russian occupation. When Russia has taken territory, millions flee. When Ukraine is able to regain it, only a handful of collaborators do the same. That should tell us all we need to know about which side is in the right in this war. Volodymyr Zelensky's government has some serious flaws. But it is a liberal democracy vastly superior to Putin's increasingly repressive dictatorship.
As regular readers know, I am a native speaker of Russian, a language also known by most Ukrainians. Over the last three years, I have spoken to numerous Ukrainian refugees with a wide range of backgrounds: Christians, Jews, and Muslims; ethnic Ukrainians and members of minority groups (including ethnic Russians); supporters of President Zelensky, and supporters of opposition parties. They differ on many things. But all agree on the horrific brutality of the Russian government, and that Ukrainian rule is far preferable to it. We should listen to these people, not the propaganda emanating from the Kremlin, and now echoed by the White House.
Letting Russia take more territory will predictably result in more atrocities of the kind we have already seen. And the survivors will be subjected to horrific oppression.
The pragmatic case for backing Ukraine is also compelling. Letting Russia win will predictably incentivize further aggression. Moreover, a Russian victory will give a boost to authoritarians worldwide and weaken the forces of liberal democracy.
The idea that Ukraine and the West, rather than Russia, are at fault for the war is utterly ridiculous. Those who claim that Russia attacked because of the possibility that Ukraine might join NATO have the causation reversed. Ukrainian interest in joining NATO was a product of Russian aggression, beginning with the seizure of Crimea and part of the Donbass in 2014. If Putin's goal was to prevent Ukrainian NATO membership, he could have "achieved" it simply by leaving Ukraine alone. But his real objective is to bring all of Ukraine under Russian control. Don't take my word for it. Take Putin's own words outlined in his numerous statements to the effect that Ukraine has no right to exist outside Russian dominance.
Putin's regime is one of the main enemies of the United States and the West. Any Russian forces damaged or destroyed in Ukraine are ones we don't have to face elsewhere. From that perspective, US expenditures in Ukraine are actually a bargain. Since January 2022, the US has given Ukraine approximately $119 billion in assistance, less than 1% of the federal budget (about $7 trillion per year), and a tiny fraction of the US defense budget (which is about $841 billion per year, as of 2024). Thanks in part to US aid, the Ukrainians have killed or wounded hundreds of thousands of Russian troops, and destroyed large quantities of equipment. There is no other way that the US could have so greatly weakened one of our major enemies at so little cost.
The US and its allies could reduce costs still further by funding Ukraine with the $300 billion in Russian government assets currently frozen in the West.
Claims that Ukraine must give up because they cannot win run up against the evidence that Ukrainian forces perform well when given the supplies they need. Over the last year, Russian forces have suffered huge casualties and made only modest gains, despite the fact that Ukrainian forces were hamstrung much of the time by a suspension of US aid engineered on specious grounds by congressional Republicans. The Ukrainians have even managed to capture substantial Russian territory in Kursk, and hold it against repeated counterattacks. With more assistance, Ukrainian forces could do better.
Even if some sort of negotiated ceasefire is unavoidable, it makes no sense to make preemptive concessions in advance without demanding anything from Russia in return. At the very least, we should demand Russia withdraw from at least some of the territory it has occupied, and return Ukrainian prisoners and kidnapped children.
Nor can Trump's move be defended on the grounds that it will bring "peace." Any ceasefire without reciprocal Russian concessions is likely to be only a prelude to a renewal of the war after Russian replenishes its forces. Such an arrangement would not give Putin any incentive to give up his goal of taking all of Ukraine.
Those who claim helping Ukraine is a diversion from countering China in the Pacific would do well to remember that our Asian allies - including Taiwan - believe helping Ukraine is in their strategic interest. They know that weakening Russia also weakens China (for whom Russia is a key ally), and that showing resolve in Ukraine helps deter China, as well.
In addition to rewarding Russian aggression, Trump's betrayal of Ukraine has also poisoned relations with our European allies, most of whom strongly support Ukraine and fear further Russian aggression against themselves. Losing their trust and support far outweighs any possible gains from a deal with the Kremlin. It isn't Making America Great Again. To the contrary, it is weakening and isolating us.
The outcome here isn't cast in stone. Trump might perhaps at least partially reverse course. Ukraine might be able to persist with European support only. Despite Trumpian claims to the contrary, the Europeans actually have given more aid to Ukraine than we have. They would do well to seize the $300 billion in frozen Russian state assets (most of which are held in Europe) and use them to at least partially fill the gap created by withdrawal of US aid. Still, the Europeans cannot quickly - if ever - fully substitute for US support.
There is still time to change course. But if Trump persists in withdrawing support from Ukraine without demanding any reciprocal concessions from Russia, the consequences for both Ukraine and America are likely to be dire. The reversal may well go down in history as one of the worst American foreign policy decisions, simultaneously evil and stupid.
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Ilya is correct, even if he could not resist the temptation to work in "vote with your feet."
Nothing Trump or any of his officials have said suggests they want to stop the war because funding is better spent elsewhere. Trump doesn't even know how much the US has spent. Instead, he has actively parroted Russia's justifications for the war.
The only silver lining is that maybe his delusional appeasement strategy will convince Europe to start providing for its own defense.
Or maybe Putin will sweep across Europe and finish what Hitler started. The difference between Trump and Neville Chamberlain is that Chamberlain was merely stupid. Trump on the other hand is evil; he doesn't care who wins so long as he makes money off it.
Chamberlain got Great Britain on a path to preparedness, which was decisive in the ultimate victory over the Nazis. Maybe he was wrong, but I don't think it's fair to call him stupid.
I suppose preparing for a war that should have been prevented in the first place is something.
Prevented how?
By standing up to Germany at Munich. Although some have made the argument that the UK needed the extra year to prepare for war, Germany was not prepared for war in 1938 either, and Hitler's generals were at least contemplating moving against him if he tried to start a war then. But then Chamberlain threw Hitler a lifeline.
With a mega-disclaimer about the impossibility of accurate counterfactuals, Germany was rearming rapidly. I think intervention when Hitler reoccupied the Rhineland in 1936 would have likely succeeded in deposing him. By Munich in 1938 things were a lot iffier. Of course, by 1938 it was also more obvious that he needed to be stopped.
That was broadly my thinking too. By 1938 it was probably too late to avoid another war.
Maybe; maybe not. Chamberlain was faced with an extremely difficult position. In hindsight, Germany wasn't as strong as it looked. Their main fighter plane was approaching obsolescence. (The Me-109's was upgraded throughout the war, but everyone knew the FW-190 was a better plane, at least against Western fighters. The Brits didn't know that the Ju-87 wasn't much of a threat, nor was the Me-110. German tanks sucked also.)
But England withstood Germany, alone from June 1940 through June 1941. Chamberlain deserves some credit for that.
"But England withstood Germany, alone from June 1940 through June 1941. Chamberlain deserves some credit for that."
Churchill deserves a little credit for that as well, given that he was Prime Minister during that time :-).
That was the time of his famous speeches:
'Blood, toil, tears and sweat' - May 10 1940
'We Shall Fight on the Beaches' - June 4 1940
'This was their finest hour' - June 18 1940
'The Few' - August 20 1940
You can find those on youtube ... if you have never heard them except for the sound bites, they are pretty masterful.
In fairness to Chamberlain:
"But this portrayal does Chamberlain a gross historical injustice. For all his undoubted flaws, including his vanity and self-delusion about Hitler, he deserves a large amount of credit for the RAF’s success in 1940. Far from leaving our defences ill-equipped, he was the leader responsible for ensuring that Britain had the planes ready for the titanic struggle against the Luftwaffe. For most of the 1930s, while he was prime minister and chancellor, his decisions provided the funds for the RAF’s expansion and ensured the money was focused on fighters. As he wrote to his sister Ida in July 1940: “If I am personally responsible for deficiencies in tanks and guns, I must equally be responsible for the efficiency of the RAF.”"
There is a lot to say about Chamberlain and appeasement which goes beyond the simplified stereotype.
You've pointed out he may have felt Britain was not prepared at that moment. Others claim the western allies were more than prepared as Germany may not have been fully ready to go.
No matter.
The current situation is nothing like that. The US is a powerhouse of wealth, resources, advanced tech, and warehouses of things ready to go.
In short, we are the exact opposite of the state of the western allies in the run up to WWII. We can do this, and with just supply chains, no boots on the ground needed.
The upside of the military industrial complex, I suppose. The US has a policy of having the best trained, best equipped troops. Let the other nations throw human waves against each other.
Trump is shameful. His supporters who buy into the twice-parroted rationalizations should be twice-shamed.
Concern about Ukraine troops, so give in to evil? WTF!
Concern about Russian troops, a concern their leader does not share, and could end instantly by withdrawal? Quadruple shameful.
Don't bother with D-Day. We will kill lots of German troops. WWWWWWWTF!
Money better spent here? Of all the things to skimp on, freedom in Europe is far from first in line.
Ukraine caused this? This is bordering treasonous, aping the nonsentient talking point from a European and American belligerent.
Why he does it is sus, as the kids might say. Why his followers bite is enjoyment at 100% contrarianism, defeating the other side in every effort, at all costs.
One guy around here, maybe more, "I like Putin." Tucker, too. I don't know what else to say at this point.
Ukraine.
Is.
Not.
Our.
Issue.
The EU has plenty of cash. They can deal with it. End NATO as well as it provides the US literally no benefits.
Russia sure is our issue. And we have an agreement with Ukraine.
Amazing how many of the generally right-win types are doing 'America First' 2025 style.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/_35FdfU6stMfSIeGeXetrbUk8dE=/media/img/posts/2017/01/seuss/original.jpg
"Russia sure as fuck is our issue."
How so? Europe is something we should be divorcing ourselves from as quickly as humanly possible. E. Europe is OK, but W. Europe is a fascist shithole.
"And we have an agreement with Ukraine."
We are working on a mineral agreement. No, we do not have any alliance with them. At all. Biden agreed to fund them indefinitely, but they DID pay his family a LOT of money, so that seems sketchy.
We should definitely be encouraging them to increase their military spending, then!
We shouldn't. We should leave NATO and tell them to go fuck themselves. Close all European bases with zero warning to our "allies" who refuse to abide by their agreements.
This is something in your head, which is apparently shoved far up Trump's ass, which is where he pulled this notion from.
"This is something in your head, which is apparently shoved far up Trump's ass, which is where he pulled this notion from."
Are ALL of the other members of NATO hitting the minimum military budget requirement?
Why, no. Most are not.
We should leave. They cannot be trusted to live up to their word.
There. Is. No. Minimum. Military. Budget. Requirement. You. Idiot.
"There. Is. No. Minimum. Military. Budget. Requirement. You. Idiot."
No requirement. But there is an agreement by all Nato countries to spend 2% of GDP on defense.
If Ukraine is not our issues why is Krasnov doing what he can to get Ukraine to surrender to Russia while attempting to extort $500bn in minerals?
If you want to say, it's not our issue, then stay the fuck out, don't suck Putin's dick, and talk quietly to Ukraine about how theu might eventually repay money loaned to them.
You can't have it both ways.
France and Britain both abandoned their duties under the treaty they had forced on Germany. France refused to counter Germany's puny military reoccupation, Britain signed away naval supremacy without consulting France. There were other failures. However practical his Czechoslovakia appeasement was for rebuilding Britain's military, especially the air force, it would have been unnecessary if Britain had done her duty beforehand.
Yes, but the fact is that they hadn't "done their duty." What if Hitler had conquered Britain?
He could no more have conquered Britain than Japan could have invaded Hawaii or California. Learn some logistics.
Um, even with the new Spits, the Luftwaffe, by bombing radar stations and radio towers were beginning to turn the tide. But then the pilot of a damaged He-111 dropped its bomb load (accidentally) over London. The Brits retaliated, and then Goering pursued the idiotic desire to wipe out cities vs. defeat the RAF. Had the Luftwaffe defeated the RAF (which was very possible), they probably could have starved out the British.
* Britain had a navy too.
* The HOME CHAIN radar stations had been attacked often enough without result that the Germans gave up attacking them. They were pretty hard to damage and easy to repair.
* British airplane factories were outproducing German airplane factories.
* German fighters didn't have enough range to be effective over Britain.
* German bombers didn't have the range to hit all British airplane factories.
* German airplanes were fighting over Britain; their pilots bailed out over enemy territory and were lost, while British pilots lived to fight another day.
* Germany had no troop ships which could cross the channel.
* Germany had no way to keep an invading army supplied.
* Germany had that genius Hitler in charge, who gave up and attacked that weaker foe, the USSR.
Germany had no chance of invading Britain.
The Churchill government for sure didn't consider it impossible in 1939 and 1940. Very much the opposite, they were expecting an invasion. Roosevelt didn't consider invasion of the US impossible either, hence the Japanese-American internments. Of course that was from Japan, rather than Germany.
Also, Neville Chamberlain made terrible mistakes in dealing with Hitler, but he was very far from stupid.
You're wrong. When Germany was focused on airfields, radar, radio stations, RAF losses started to be heavier than German losses. Then Goering bombed Coventry.
The U-boats combined with air power could have made Britain lose the war (or sue for peace) through starvation.
"Or maybe Putin will sweep across Europe and finish what Hitler started. "
Russia can't beat Ukraine. Despite the weakened state of EU defenses based on their reliance on US, Poland or France alone can beat Russia.
Oppose Trump on Ukraine if you wish, but don't be stupid.
Also recall that Congress cut off aid to South Vietnam in the 1970's, so there is precedent for this sort of action.
Right, with the result that North Vietnam captured South Vietnam in no time. Which is largely what will happen in the Ukraine without US assistance.
And now you leave out the part about sweeping across Europe and finishing what Hitler started.
Ho Chi Minh never had territorial ambitions for all of Europe. Hitler did and Putin does.
Where is your evidence that Putin has territorial ambitions for all of Europe? At most, it appears he has territorial ambitions for the former Soviet Union, which you'll note excludes most of Western Europe. And who cares what his ambitions are? The real question is whether he has power to attain those ambitions. Dude couldn't beat a backwards military running mostly Soviet era equipment at the outset and still can't after years of NATO slow-walking more modern equipment. He sure as hell can't even take Poland.
Can anyone explain what strateigic importance the Ukraine has that South Vietnam did not?
Can anyone explain how South Vietnam had any strategic importance that vanished the moment it was conquered?
It's also important to note that the EU and US only supplied as much equipment as it took to keep Russia from winning. They great care in attaching strings and limiting supplies to prevent Ukraine from winning.
I've seen no evidence of Putin's desire to conquer all of Europe. Where is this evidence?
The former government of Afghanistan would also like a word...
Not true. The South Vietnamese held out for a while.
but don't be stupid.
You may as well implore the wind not to blow.
Wuz, my husband once recommended you see a geriatric neurologist. You never did, did you?
Was your husband practicing medicine without a license, in a different state, and without having the patient? I can think of lots of recommendations for you, such as stop hiding behind your husband's reputation and stand for yourself, but I doubt you'd follow any of them.
Did I give you any facts that would support him practicing medicine without a license in a different state and without seeing the patient? Is recommending someone get help practicing medicine without a license?
Congratulations. Wuz is no longer the most ridiculous contributor to this thread.
Wuz is no longer the most ridiculous contributor to this thread.
That means a lot coming from the sockpuppet account of someone who is so mentally ill that he actually believes that pretending to be his imaginary wife is actually fooling someone.
If I cared about your opinion I would be devastated.
If I cared about your opinion I would be devastated.
You appear to not even care about your own lost sanity, so I certainly wouldn't expect you to care about much of anything else.
If indeed this were a sockpuppet account and you busted me for it, why wouldn't I simply abandon it and open a new one?
There is zero reason for me to engage you further. Say and think whatever you want because you're going to anyway. You can't follow basic logical arguments, you remember things that were never said, and it's not just me you can't seem to have a civil conversation with.
As for Russia and the rest of Europe, time will tell. I think disaster is coming, but I'd be only too happy to be wrong about it. We'll find out soon enough.
why wouldn't I simply abandon it and open a new one?
Because that would be a sane and grownup course of action...but no sane grownup would be playing the game you're playing to begin with.
Wait, so opening multiple sockpuppet accounts is sane and grownup, but sticking with just one isn't? At this point you're not even trying to make sense.
,i>Wait, so opening multiple sockpuppet accounts is sane and grownup
Unfortunately, your alter-ego is no more literate than the primary voice in your otherwise empty head. Which part of...
"but no sane grownup would be playing the game you're playing to begin with."
...did you fail to comprehend?
A Woman of No Importance: "There is zero reason for me to engage you further."
Yet you do.
For the same reason I engage you: It's like watching a slow motion train wreck; you can't just look away from it. May I ask what is your interest in defending Wuz? You sure seem heavily invested in what had been a dispute between him and me, though not as invested as you are in appeasing Putin.
Seek professional help. Seriously.
Careful! You wouldn't want to be "practicing medicine without a license", as Stupid solemnly put it above.
If Putin's ragtag army can sweep across Europe, then maybe they deserve it.
Putin's ragtag army would have conquered Ukraine three years ago without US assistance. And he does have nuclear weapons.
And he does have nuclear weapons.
And nobody else does?
The point is that having nuclear weapons by itself elevates Russia above the level of rag tag.
The point is that having nuclear weapons by itself elevates Russia above the level of rag tag.
Only if you assume that those weapons would be used, guaranteeing Russia's (and most everybody else's) annihilation.
Russia says they would use them. Why shouldn't we believe them?
Russia says they would use them. Why shouldn't we believe them?
The fact that they have incurred the massive losses they have so far without turning Kyev to glass, and a recognition of the tendency toward saber-rattling? Besides, all of this silliness is driven by the baseless and utterly irrational premise that Russia has plans to "steamroll" through Europe.
Russia has been saying they'd use nukes for three years! They didn't mean it then but they certainly mean it now!
You're assuming Putin is rational. I seem him as more like the crazy ex boyfriend who decides to commit murder suicide rather than let his girlfriend break up with him.
Well, you certainly seem to know what it's like to be inside a crazy person's head.
No, I've never been inside your head. I'm told your proctologist keeps mistaking it for your butt.
Yet he's not used his nukes in three years. For that matter, neither has his recent ally, Kim, who has been supplying troops and weapons. Putin has to be pretty desperate to rely on North Korean soldiers and weapons.
How do we feel about Pakistan? They have nukes. It's pretty clear they would be wiped out by every other nuclear power on the planet.
Beyond any particular Russia/Ukraine issue, one almost certain outcome of Trump's "simultaneously evil and stupid" parroting of and capitulation to Russia this week, will be an explosive (metaphorically speaking, at least for a while) expansion in the number of currently non-nuclear nations pursuing nuclear weapons of their own.
If they have any proximate nuclear-armed neighbor countries with expansionist goals, rationally, considering Ukraine's likely fate under global Putinism/Trumpism.
Numerous ambitious rogue Indian, Iranian, North Korean, and Pakistani nuclear weapon experts will have excellent career prospects over the coming decades!
He failed to conquer Ukraine three years ago before they had major US assistance... Don't forget that we were supplying the Ukrainians with pretty shitty weapons (Stingers, etc.) for a year before we starting sending anything remotely modern. The great Russian bear is pretty pathetic on the conventional battlefield.
Russia may indeed have nuclear weapons. How many of them still work as designed given the poor state of their conventional weapons? Even if they work, the US has just as many nukes that are constantly tested. The French and British nuclear forces are not to be trifled with either. And don't forget that Putin's supposed ally, China, has repeatedly warned him not to fire his nuclear arsenal.
"Even if they work, the US has just as many nukes that are constantly tested."
Not quite correct. They are continually examined for any deterioration. The US does not conduct nuclear tests since the early 1990's
Harsh but true. Western Europe has unilaterally decided to dis-arm themselves. We need to distance ourselves from that increasingly fascistic shithole.
Putin is 72 years old and reported to have health issues.
Hitler was 45....
Trump does not know shame.
Yes, but he has an excuse.
You mean his imbecility?
Yup. Shamelessness has always been Donald Trump’s superpower, and the permissions structure its viral infectiousness built among his followers, the secret to his success.
Distressingly, a lot of people will now follow Trump's rewriting of history and recasting of right vs. wrong.
Russia was wrong to invade.
...now what?
Plenty of bad things happen.
Those bad things are ALSO not our problem.
Giving away the store before negotiations start seems insane. But it makes perfect sense if what is being "given away" is the outcome that is actually desired. There is no 4D chess being played here. Trump and Vance have laid out the result they want. No one in the administration or their party will be able to stop them. Hardly anyone will even be willing to try.
But he wants the minerals, no? Obviously a signal to Putin that he's not getting the whole. Plus, the $300bn in assets for reconstruction is nothing to sneeze at.
Just to pre-emptively debunk another Trump talking point, Zelenskyy's approval rating is 57%, higher than Trump's, and polls indicate that Zelenskyy would win a hypothetical fair presidential election, albeint that he would need a second round.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/02/19/zelenskyys-approval-rating-grows-to-57-debunking-trumps-4-support-claim
Whether this poll and “euronews” can be trusted is one question. (Wonder how much euronnews got from USAID? Just curious). The poll likely doesn’t reflect the views of the families who don’t want to sacrifice any surviving sons to this meat grinder. And I wonder if the little man who suspended elections cares all that about polls, as opposed to money.
If you are actually naive enough to trust any polling numbers coming out of a dictatorship, please make me an offer on any bridge you desire. I can get it for you cheap.
Zelenskyy would win a hypothetical fair presidential election
That fact that you had to qualify that with "hypothetical" ought tell you something.
Yes. It tells me that there are no other specific candidates that you can poll.
That's like claiming a groundhog is a reliable weather forecaster because there were no other specific animals to ask.
Again, if true --- why is he refusing to hold an election he is required to hold?
Putin is bad. Zelensky is not some paragon of democratic virtue.
He is required not to hold it. The Ukrainian constitution does not provide for elections when there's a state of martial law.
And WHO declared martial law in Ukraine?
Why, Zelenskyy. Shocking.
And there is nothing in the Ukrainian Constitution that forbids PRESIDENTIAL elections during martial law. The Parliament, yes. President? Not really, no.
You think you've scored some sort of point here? Like, Zelensky just did it for no reason, for the sake of staying in power?
I see no evidence to the contrary.
Could it have something to do with the ongoing Russian attack?
My understanding is that Ukrainian law does not require an election to be held in these circumstances. Is that incorrect?
My understanding is that Ukrainian law does not require an election to be held in these circumstances. Is that incorrect?
That is correct. The better question would have been with regard to declaration of martial law and the fact that it is still on-going...the merging (by Zelenskyy) of all Ukrainian TV stations into a single platform, the suspension of 11 opposition political parties, etc.
It's almost as if the Russian invasion is still ongoing, but I'm sure that's unrelated.
IIUC, it's not that it doesn't require elections, it forbids them.
See "Ukrainian law prohibits holding elections in wartime". They footnote their sources, but the sources are in Ukrainian, which I don't speak, and google translate won't translate. If anyone is fluent in Ukrainian I'm all ears.
Yes. It tells me that there are no other specific candidates that you can poll.
And why would there be any candidates for an election that isn't taking place?
You really are just about as dumb as it's possible to be while still being able to remember to breath.
I'm going to have to abandon my "Trump misunderstood" theory about how he arrived at his 4% approval figure. There is no evidence whatsoever supporting it.
According to Zelensky, the figure comes directly from the Russian propaganda Trump has been mainlining. Unfortunately, that makes sense.
"Just to pre-emptively debunk another Trump talking point, Zelenskyy's approval rating is 57%, higher than Trump's, and polls indicate that Zelenskyy would win a hypothetical fair presidential election, albeint that he would need a second round."
USAID funded about 90% of Ukraine's "media". No, that "poll" does not mean anything.
If he'd win --- why is he refusing to hold an election, as he was required to do for a while now? We held elections during wartime.
The premise is made up, and there's no logical connection between the premise and the conclusion anyway.
We have a different constitution than Ukraine. That may come as a surprise to you.
"The premise is made up, and there's no logical connection between the premise and the conclusion anyway."
The concept of "free press", for you, seems exceptionally malleable.
Are you just throwing out random statements here? Wht does the "concept of 'free press'" have to do with your claim about Ukrainian polls?
When the USAID bought Ukranian press presents results that USAID wants...it is immaterial. The polls are as useful as they'd be in Russia.
1) Why does USAID "want" those results?
2) You understand that the entire point of USAID media grants is to sustain an independent media that does not have to report the government line, right?
3) What evidence do you have that any of those polls are unreliable?
Look. If nothing else, there is substantial evidence that they have a reason to hold a grudge against Trump specifically for actions committed in the past few weeks. The fact that they released a counter-poll immediately after a big announcement by Trump at the very least should be looked at with reservation.
Substantial evidence, if they're not professionals.
This is also killing your parents and pleading that you're an orphan territory.
The poll in question was conducted before Trump bullshitted about Zelensky's popularity.
It is decidedly stupid to belittle and antagonize the very people whose support you will need to get what you want. Didn't they teach that in law school?
I've seen "Zelensky shouldn't have belittled and antagonized Trump" endlessly, rather than quotes of what Zelensky said to belittle and antagonize Trump, which was that Trump was believing Russian disinformation. Which Trump immediately confirmed by spouting Russian disinformation.
But yes, shame on Zelensky for believing Trump was an adult and not the 6-year-old from that Twilight Zone episode.
Yup, definitely It's a Good Life in America and Ukraine today.
(From a 1953 short story by Jerome Bixby. The Twilight Zone episode's Trump role was played by Bill Mumy of Lost in Space and Babylon 5.)
Shit, you beat me by 49 seconds!
Please! That Jerome Bixby short story.
I was actually referring to Professor Somin.
Trump's comments are inflammatory, but there is some justification for them--Zelenskyy expects others to bankroll the reconstruction etc. and the continued slaughter. Trump definitely seems to have an anti-war streak.
I don't think Trump's comments are well-advised, but I don't see them as taking Putin's side vis-a-vis where this is all going to come out. Did Obama, by the way, point out all the flaws in the Iranian regime when he was giving away the store?
Europe is going to have to stand up to Russian aggression. It's been weak (Olaf Schulz not allowing the Taurus missiles) as was Biden (the F-16 training should have started immediately).
Zelensky is far from perfect, but he is absolutely right that Ukraine is the West's first line of defense against Russian aggression in the rest of Europe. If Putin won't be stopped at the Ukraine border, then where will he be stopped? Poland? Germany? France? Anyone who thinks he'll stop at Ukraine is delusional. This is 1939 all over again, only with Moscow as the aggressor rather than Berlin.
"Poland? Germany? France?"
Not Germany but the other two, yes. Russia in 2025 is not the Soviet Union in 1944. They can't beat a weak state like Ukraine after all.
"1939 all over again, only with Moscow as the aggressor "
Well, Moscow was an aggressor in 1939 too.
They can't beat a weak state like the Ukraine because the US has spent the last three years heavily arming the Ukraine. Had the US not entered the picture Putin would have won three years ago.
No, his first sloppy and disastrous invasion from the north was stopped by Ukraine alone. Perhaps you have forgotten that one.
Okay, 2.5 years ago, then.
Quiet! They'll never get their appeasement straight with these kinds of interjections.
Let’s be honest, you don’t believe that idiocy. No one who reads it will believe it or be influenced by it. So why post this nonsense? Is there still some USAID grant money that needs to be used up?
Riva, you're the expert on idiocy.
Anyone who thinks he'll stop at Ukraine is delusional. This is 1939 all over again, only with Moscow as the aggressor rather than Berlin.
You think your sockpuppetry is fooling people, so I wouldn't be too quick to toss around the word "delusional".
So, tell us...how exactly is a country like Russia, which still hasn't even conquered Ukraine after 3 full years of trying, and at a cost of nearly 900K troops, >30K tanks and armored fighting vehicles, >23K assorted artillery systems, ~700 aircraft, 28 ships and 10s of thousands of other major pieces of equipment going to steamroll across Europe?
You keep ignoring that it was US aid and arms that kept Putin from rolling across Ukraine in the first three weeks.
I haven't ignored anything (let alone have I "kept" doing so, this being my first comment), you dishonest sack of shit.
You're also as dumb as a bag of hammers. The U.S./European aid (including arms) to Ukraine has been extremely limited compared to what would be brought to bear in the event of an invasion of NATO countries.
Well, Trump has all but announced that he's going to abandon NATO too. And that may have been *your* first comment, but others here made the same point and it has already been refuted, so yes, *you* are continuing to ignore a point that has already been made. Even if you used your first comment to do so.
But so typical of your usual inability to follow a logical argument from A to B to C to D.
You haven't refuted squat.
"Well, Trump has all but announced that he's going to abandon NATO too. And that may have been *your* first comment, but others here made the same point and it has already been refuted, so yes, *you* are continuing to ignore a point that has already been made. Even if you used your first comment to do so."
Why should we remain in NATO? If they will not honor their agreements, why the hell should we?
There are no "agreements" that "they" aren't honoring. Yet another gullible person fooled by Trump's rhetoric into thinking that NATO has dues that these countries haven't been paying.
They are not paying their share of the military obligation.
NATO is simply welfare paid for by US taxpayers.
Fuck Europe. We've lost so many lives and money keeping those morons from killing one another that my patience for them is non-existent.
Canada should ALSO be dealt with in a purely business manner. No more of us even PRETENDING to be fond of them. They want ANYTHING from us? Pay us. Otherwise, fuck off. They've done well sucking on the American teat and that needs to end globally.
How much of the US budget do you think is spent on foreign aid per year?
And you think NATO is just like, our gift to Europe?
Weird bitter little man.
There is no "share" of "military obligation." Look, NATO could have requirements that countries contribute a specific amount of money for military expenditures. But it doesn't. The NATO countries don't owe any particular amount of money to anyone, let alone us.
You are a deeply disturbed individual who knows less about international relations than your average teenager.
It still amazes me how much of Trumpism is just pure ressentiment.
There is no share. BUT as many Europeans now admit, the EU needs to have its own Armed Forces. It should not be the tail of the American attack dog.
The problem for the EU is that raising an Armed Forces would cost of the order of 5% of GDP. That clashes with their spending on social programs.
At that point the US would have an ally rather than client states.
Europe has had its own armed forces for quite some time.
That they no longer trust the collective security and stability of NATO thanks to Trump is not some grand acknowledgement of Europe's longstanding free riding, its Trump making world more chaotic for no reason.
They don't "owe dues". But there is an agreement of Nato countries that those same Nato countries will spend 2% of their GDP on their own defense. Most aren't.
NATO countries have agreed to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. Although it is certainly a good target to ensure NATO members maintain strong militaries, I’m not sure why we would really care how much a country like Montenegro is spending on their military. It doesn’t affect US expenditures either way. Lets say Article 5 is invoked. Even if a NATO member was spending 20% of GDP defense, they still could choose not to help,
The reason we should remain in NATO is because it has huge benefits for the US. For one thing, it creates a market for our weapons systems that we can sell to other NATO members, which supports US workers. But it also makes the US more powerful. We currently spend hundreds of billions of $ per year preparing to fight wars. The fact that we can rely on NATO allies means that we don’t have to spend as much to ensure we can win those wars. Because that is a huge advantage we have that neither Russia or China have access to. If we want to drop out of NATO them we should either prepare to spend even more per year on defense, or we need to change the expectation that we will definitely win wars in the future.
But — to be clear — they've agreed that to be a reasonable target goal, not as a treaty obligation.
Take your meds and learn how English works.
"You keep ignoring"
Yes, once a point has already been responded to, you do keep ignoring it if you then pretend that it hasn't already been responded to.
And that's something a geriatric neurologist wouldn't be able to help you with, sorry.
I do admire your patience, but they are just trolling you.
The U.S./European aid (including arms) to Ukraine has been extremely limited compared to what would be brought to bear in the event of an invasion of NATO countries.
Let's hope so. Now that the US government is openly allied with Russia, there's no telling whether it would do anything at all in the event of an invasion of the NATO territory.
No, that aid arrived after Ukraine turned back that first invasion.
"You keep ignoring that it was US aid and arms that kept Putin from rolling across Ukraine in the first three weeks."
That is utterly false.
In the Cold War, the US sometimes sided with little dictatorships, the argument being at least their little bit of economic might wasn't going in aid to communists.
If nothing else, the same strategy applies here. No rebuilding of the Soviet Empire, thanks.
Obama/Biden! Drink!
You realize there is historical precedent for this- the Congress cutting off all aid to South Vietnam in the 1970's.
Awesome point. Well, Ilya?
And what happened next after the US shut off aid to South Vietnam?
North Vietnam rolled right across the Pacific and conquered Hawaii and California?
Ho Chi Minh had no territorial ambitions for Hawaii and California, as Hitler and Putin did/do for Europe. But then you knew that; you're just pretending to be stupid.
Ho Chi Minh died 6 years before the north conquered the south. His territorial ambitions were irrelevant.
Well, you're the one claiming he may have wanted Hawaii and California.
Yeah, his life long crusade to create a united and independent Vietnam are completely irrelevant to that war and its outcome.
Well, we at least took in lots and lots of refugees from our abandoned ally. Whereas Trump would be turning Ukrainians away like Jews in the 1930s.
You're forgetting some details.
1. Exactly how can Trump demand anything from Russia without threatening war? This is the same attitude that passes laws for the silliest things, then is shocked, shocked to find that enforcement includes the threat of jail and death.
2. Borders in that region have been notoriously flexible for centuries. They are imposed by rules, not chosen by people.
3. Zelensky has canceled elections, shut down newspapers and TV stations, and closed his borders to emigration. This last ought to be especially concerning to Ilya "Open Borders" Somin.
4. Giving NATO membership to a country at war is literally a declaration of war alongside that country.
5. This is literally none of our government's business.
If Ukraine were less corrupt than Russia, I would probably donate money to help them fight the invasion. Putin reminds me very much of Hitler, and his taking of Crimea then invasion of Ukraine very much reminds me of Hitler taking the Sudetenland than invading Czechoslovakia. Even the newness of both Czechoslovakia and Ukraine as independent countries is remarkably similar (20 years for Czechoslovakia, 23 for Crimea/Ukraine). But Ukraine is corrupt, not a democracy, and run by a dictator whose main differences from Putin are no nukes and being younger and healthier.
Even if Zelensky were a corrupt dictator, he's not a genocidal maniac.
The attempted moral equivalence between Zelensky and Putin boggles the mind.
The trolls have started to believe their own rhetoric.
Show my exact words where I claimed any moral equivalence between the two.
You can't. I didn't. Go ahead, try.
Zelensky is much worse than Putin. We should not support him for one more day. Yes, Zelensky is a corrupt dictator who has sold out his own people, and started a horrible war with Russia.
Are you angling for a Trump administration post or something? Nobody could be this stupid. Dan Bongino maybe on a roid rage.
What's your excuse?
Why are you so afraid of Dan Bongino all of a sudden?
Oh, never mind. We get it.
Ukraine is not asking for your money; Zelensky is asking for your weapons.
That distinction (and its rational effect on the "corruption" allegation) appears to have eluded you.
Weapons are free? Fuel, food, ammunition, payrolls, all free?
What happened to that $100 billion he can't account for?
They're surplus weapons, idiot.
There is no "$100 billion he can't account for."
1. By continuing to arm and support Ukraine. Duh.
2. Borders may have been flexible in past centuries, but they'll all been agreed to for quite some time.
3. The Ukrainian constitution, not Zelenzky, cancelled elections.
4. "Literally!"
5. "Literally!"
Nothing you wrote is true.
Trump's terrible, but his policy doesn't seem that different than what the US has been doing since 2014. If Biden had had the fortitude to intervene in a way that was effective in removing Russia, it'd be a much different situation.
Drink!
Exactly the same, apart from the "cutting off of weapons" thing, presumably...
TY. I don't have the time to review the whole history, but the betrayal of Ukraine started long before Trump.
And while I agree with Trump's overall approach, his revisionist history of Ukraine is shameful.
Trump’s decision has an obvious pragmatic justification. Instead of hanging out with the loser little kids protecting them from the bullies beating them up and taking their lunch money, why not join the winners, the people with the swagger whom the loser little kids fear? Not only do you get the pleasure of helping them beat little kids up and watching them squeal for mercy as you do, you get a share of the lunch money too. Or you can demand their lunch as protection money in exchange for being their “friend” and not beating them up and taking it.
Right now the territories Russia occupies control about half of Ukraine’s mineral wealth , and Trump wants the other half in exchange for “protecting” America’s “friend.” So if Trump and Putin have made some sort of secret deal whereby they each get half of Ukraine’s mineral wealth and the rump Ukrainian state is left too impoverished to be a threat to anybody, de-Nazified and with that dictator Zelinsky removed and a suitable people’s democratic republic type leader installed in a manner similar to what the USSR did to East Germany after WWII, well now, that’s a lot, a lot of lunch money!
What’s so impractical about that? All that lunch money sounds pretty practical to me. Bullies wouldn’t bully if it didn’t work for them to do so.
I mean, the only way the US could possibly have gotten into the business of hanging with the loser little kids in the first place was it was because it was conned. I mean, serious self-respecting very stable genius great people know the winners are where it’s at. This country got totally conned by liberals and DEI and communist people, not just Democrats but traitor RINOS like Abraham Lincoln. It needs to recognize its greatness and start joining the great people and shake down lunch money from the little people like great people have always done.
That has always been Trump’s basic message. He’s never waivered from it.
He even used to keep a book of relevant "winner's" speeches in his bedside table, according to his first wife...
Does he also take amphetamines like the heroes he admires so? It would explain his early morning/late night shit posting on social media.
Between Musk and his ketamine infusions and this fkn guy we are living in an Onion article 24/7. Can't tell if things reported in the news are real or parody. Like the KGB folks claiming Trump is code-name Krasnov; lured in by his first defector wife in the 80s. Shady people making shady claims so not really believable. But Trump's actions make the KGB claim's plausible only because there is no other rational explanation other than Trump's odd tendency to constantly admire and compliment autocrats, authoritarians and actual dictators. WHICH SHOULD BE A HUGE WAKE UP CALL! Trump's constant blabbering about a 3rd term and the fact that rules, regulations, constitutions etc...are mere toilet paper to him doesn't help.
He is, in fact, a foreign policy embarrassment and sounds like a greedy pig whining about how much money the US spent in Ukraine as if the trifling amount of money is more important than people's lives. I am glad he is a few big macs away from a stroke because he can't take all his ill gotten gains with him when Don Jr buries code name Krasnov unceremoniously in the rough at one of his stupid golf courses.
Biden and the neo-cons betrayed Ukraine, leading it into this useless war. Trump is being harsh toward Zelensky but gentle and compassionate toward Ukraine.
Leading Russia into this useless war, surely?
Or are you agreeing with Trump and Putin that Ukraine started the war?
...it probably seemed to make more sense in the original Russian.
A book review (and summary) of the history behind the current state of affairs vis-à-vis Russia and Ukraine, et al. There is much to ponder here:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-first-draft-of-the-ukraine-wars-history/
Count on Somin to take the anti-American side. Ukraine is not a liberal democracy. It is a dictatorship under marshal law, pursuing a hopeless war. Zelensky trying to join NATO was essentially a declaration of war against Russia.
The Biden plan seemed designed to kill as many Russians and Ukrainians as possible. This is madness, and Trump is right to try to stop it.
Don't you wish you could go back in time and help the Nazis invade Czechoslovakia and Poland? Perhaps throw in a little einsatzgruppen action? You really are a vile cunt.
Ukraine was part of the USSR back then.
Pardon me, boy, but Ukraine had its own founding seat in the UN too, and was an independent country of its own before Russia gobbled it up. Is any of that relevant today?
You are funny. Stalin was casting UN votes for Ukraine. Not exactly a liberal democracy. Those founding members all agreed to abolish war. Why did we even form NATO if war had been abolished?
Which is why I mentioned Czechoslovakia and Poland not Ukraine.
But it seems you'd have supported Stalin. "Holodomor? Everyone gets hungry from time to time".
And Ukraine was a sovereign state post-USSR. But since you're going into history, (western) Russia was once part of Ukraine.
Ah, so Sweden and Finland must have at least "essentially" declared war against Russia when they actually joined NATO...
Yes, they are lucky they did not get invaded also. A lot of people here seem way to eager to have a war with Russia. I guess Somin hates his country.
Assume what you say is true. It's ok to stop the Soviet Empire from re-emerging in military conquest of Europe.
That is sufficient reason.
I don't see you volunteering yourself or your family to go and die so I'll discount your demands for others accordingly.
Zelensky only broached the idea NATO membership after Russia had already invaded and annexed its territory. It was a defensive move. He wouldn't had done it had Russia never invaded or just left Ukraine alone in the first place. If you consider Zelensky's defensive move a declaration of war against Russia, what do you consider Russia's prior invasion of Ukrainian territory?
Yup. Ukraine was turning its primary focus from East to West, with a long-term strategy of evolving to something like Finland—bordering Russia, and non-NATO.
Finland joined NATO for the same reason Ukraine needs to.
We would overthrow their government as we did to Ukraine?
I think damikesc has been a commenter here long enough that it's implausible he's a Russian bot — but there would literally be no difference in his posts if he were. Every one of his posts here is just word-for-word Kremlin propaganda.
Given some of the insane comments here, I'll just add my voice saying that Professor Somin is absolutely correct. There is no moral case for what the Trump administration is doing vis a vis Russia and Ukraine. And it is strategically idiotic. The cost-benefit ration for supporting Ukraine and how much it weakens Russia and China is a no brainer. This is a situation where doing the right thing is in our best interests. But the Trump administration is both morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Why would the United States want to weaken its best friends, countries whose leaders it looks up to and seeks to emulate and whose social circle it wants to join?
Hey pal, a 49.8% mandate has consequences--and don't you forget it!
Most people do not want the Ukraine War.
Indeed. That's not the same thing as blaming Ukraine for it, or trying to force Ukraine to surrender, or trying to extort $500bn in minerals, or providing clear diplomatic support to Russia.
I imagine the Ukrainians didn't want war either but Russia - Putin - evidently did.
"Extorting"?
We owe Ukraine, literally, nothing. It is not too much to expect compensation. We are receiving that now.
We now have some reason to have ANY interest in Ukraine outside of the usual wet dreams of the neocons like Somin.
I guess that's a bit less dumb than calling him a "Marxist" as Schlafly does, but it's still pretty darn stupid.
Neocons also adored open borders above all else.
Hated giving up their slaves. So they want to bring 'em back.
Who knows their stance on immigration; borders isn't the main thing neocons were known for.
Okay, now you've moved from pretty darn stupid to totally fucking stupid. That in fact has nothing at all to do with neoconservatism in any way, shape, or form.
No, wait, getting even stupider. See, slaves were people who didn't want to come to the U.S. Immigrants are people who are desperate to come to the U.S. So, other than the fact that you think all people with darker skin than Eric Trump look alike, nothing in common.
OK, how much does Ukraine owe the US? $100bn? $150bn, It sure as shit isn't $500bn, which is apparently the value of minerals that Krasnov wants, and he has threatened to get Starlink shut off, while clearly supporting Putin. "Extorting" is exactly the right word.
Kords: But the Trump administration is both morally and intellectually bankrupt.
...or, as Somin observed in his last line, "...simultaneously evil and stupid."
Somin is certainly willing to fight for Ukraine as long as he does not have to do so.
Awfully cavalier with the lives of others.
The Ukrainians get to make that choice.
You're the one that seems against their freedom.
Beyond "Betrayal of Ukraine", it's a betrayal of the rules-based international order which forbids wars of conquest. Such wars have been rare since WW2, because most people recognize them as unacceptable. This recognition is formalized in the U.N. Charter. The alternative is what we had in the 1940, except now with nuclear weapons.
Also, seeing how Ukraine's giving up its nuclear weapons has left it vulnerable to invasion, more countries will now seek to get nuclear weapons as a deterrent, increasing risk of nuclear war or accidental launch.
And territorial guarantees of border integrity in exchange for giving up those nukes aren't worth the epaper it's written on.
That ship sailed when Hillary was laughing about Khadaffy's death. He ended HIS WMD program based on our requests.
IMO, what Ukraine should be offered is the status Austria had during the Cold War: a neutral country, whom each side agrees not to invade or take over. With the U.S. indicating that it considers it in its interest that it remains that way. In a recent interview, Rubio stated that the mineral deal is one way the US can show that it considers the independence of Ukraine to be something it will stand up for.
Ukraine was offered neutrality, and Zelensky chose war instead.
Really? That is what you actually believe?
What could make RUS to become a guarantor of this neutrality, and promote it, not just respect it? I keep looking at the Abraham Accords, and how it has endured through the conflict with Israel and her partners. Economic ties increased and deepened, it has thrived. The economic and development aspects are primary.
I really don't want US troops in UKR. Or at most, an outpost of 50 people. But I strongly prefer zero.
Like any donkey, you need a carrot and a stick.
If the Rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the Rule? (I love that line)
Roger S and his fellow Putinazis are like men who support their buddy's abuse of his wife. "She said she was afraid I'd beat her up, and she wanted to go to a shelter. So to stop her, I beat her up." "Yeah, you had to, man, that bitch..."
Ukraine merely had to stay neutral to avoid war.
Straight Parroted Putin Position. As I observed a bit ago, as Ukraine started democratizing (a long road), its society was slowly shifting its primary focus from East to West, from a static statist kleptocracy to European modernity with a long-term strategy of evolving to something like Finland—bordering Russia, and non-NATO but a strong regional military. When Russia abrogated its agreements and seized Crimea, Ukraine realized such a drawn out evolution would be blocked by statist authoritarian military power.
Finland joined NATO for the same reason Ukraine needed to. Russian revanchism could not allow Ukraine to become even the Baltics, let alone Finland. So, Finland (and Sweden) joined NATO for the same reason Ukraine needed to.
If, decades from now, we have recovered from the Trump Interregnum as the constitutional democratic representative republic the founders gave us ("...if you can keep it"), history's view of Donald J. Trump (especially his second term) will indeed match Prof. Somin's ending:
"...simultaneously evil and stupid."
Although no sure thing, I judge the odds of that recovery as better than even.
But it could also begin more quickly than anyone thinks. As Romania's final communist leader, ruthless totalitarian Nicolae Ceauşescu discovered in 1989, when many-trending-to-most of your closest, most direct supporters hate you (including some presenting as the most sycophantic to your face), what looks like overwhelming support can turn out to be be a mile wide and an inch deep (traditional description of the Platte River in Nebraska). Those conditions can veil a rapidly approaching tipping point, with a comfortable level of support evaporating surprisingly quickly.
Although some Trump hires likely are so deep in the cult that they piss Purple Kool-Aid (Orange, perhaps), there's really no way for Trump to tell them apart from those just playing the part out of pure self-interest.
A substantially larger (and bipartisan) part of official Washington DC than it seems on the surface, hates Trump. His public approval ratings, already the lowest of any president at this point in his term, are already trending down.
Both trends are accelerating, perhaps because of all the the ways Trump let Musk's teenage minion corps (Department of Grift-Elon, or DOG-E pronounced Doggy) hijack his/i> presidency for their simultaneously evil and stupid, Musk-First, initial reign of terror (do you think all of this is Trump's idea? Do you think Musk likes Trump? RFK Jr.? Rubio?).
As an optimist by policy/pessimist by nature, I don't know whether this is a pessimistic or optimistic scenario. One thing about growing old is that calendar time appears to advance a lot more quickly than it once did—so, subjectively at least, guess I'll know sooner than most of you. What do you think?
WHAT? Hack pols who have stolen money do not like being found out? Get the fuck out of town.
Your support for a government not responsive to the elected politicians is duly noted. You seem fond of fascism. Why? Do you think YOU will be put in charge?
Eisenhower "abandoned" Hungary in 1956. LBJ "abandoned" Czechoslovakia (the poor Czechs!) in 1968.
I can't think of any reason these two Presidents didn't go to war with the Soviet Union in these situations. They must have been Russian assets.
If you're not into war, you are actually the worst of war mongerers. If you won't kill lots of people, then you want lots of folks to die.
Such is the mentality of the neocons supporting this idiotic campaign.
The US is not fighting the war. Ukraine is. One question is why Krasnov supports Russia in this war. Another question is why you do.
The problem isn't that you're "not into war." You are into war; you're just rooting for the other side.
The analogy would be if Eisenhower or LBJ had told Hungary and Czechoslovakia not to resist, insisted that they started it, and voted against a resolution condemning the USSR.
How would that have gone down?
Fuck off Ilya, the only betrayal of Ukraine has been by Obama, Zelensky and the big guy Biden. Go get your money back from them and see what they can do about raising the dead.
Go to sleep. You're drunk.
We know that Obama didn't betray Ukraine because if he had, you'd now be supporting Ukraine.
+1
Let's take a moment to list the countries that voted against UN General Assembly resolution ES-11/L.10. (The text of the resolution is here.)
In alphabetical order:
- Belarus
- Burkina Faso
- Burundi
- Central African Republic
- North Korea
- Equatorial Guinea
- Eritrea
- Haiti
- Hungary
- Israel
- Mali
- The Marshall Islands
- Nicaragua
- Niger
- Palau
- Russia
- Sudan
- The United States
So basically it's a bunch of (African) countries where the military junta is being kept in power by Russian mercenaries, a couple of (wannabe) authoritarian states, and the US and Israel.
https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1n/k1nflh4vg1
No China? Oh the implications!
Yeah, I called that out in the Open Thread: Trump is more pro-Putin than Russian ally China is.
Or more anti-war. You can tell--this guy hates war.
I am sure many Israelis will be highly pissed off at the pro-Russia vote/ Fucking Netanyahu.