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Thomas Berry (Cato Institute) on Trump's Recess Appointment Plan
Berry explains why the plan is flawed on legal and other grounds.
This is a guest post is by my Cato Institute colleague Thomas Berry. What follows is written by him (Berry), not me (Ilya Somin):
President-elect Trump has demanded on X that Senate Republican leadership "must agree to Recess Appointments (in the Senate!), without which we will not be able to get people confirmed in a timely manner." In this post I'll explain the consequences of allowing recess appointments, why the Senate has not done so for over a decade, and why it would be unwise to allow recess appointments now.
First, here are the basics on congressional timelines. These days, each 2-year Congress comprises two 1-year sessions, running from January 3rd of one year to January 3rd of the next. But in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, sessions were much shorter than a year, and they had months-long gaps in between them when members of Congress traveled home.
The Constitution's Recess Appointments Clause was written to accommodate the delays that could occur in Senate confirmation back when travel between the Senate and the rest of the country took much longer. As Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 67, the clause was adopted "as it would have been improper to oblige [the Senate] to be continually in session for the appointment of officers and as vacancies might happen IN THEIR RECESS, which it might be necessary for the public service to fill without delay."
The clause says, "The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session." Article II, section 2, clause 3. For decades, two questions were in doubt concerning this clause. What's "the Recess," and which vacancies "happen during the Recess"? The Supreme Court finally answered both questions in the 2014 case NLRB v. Noel Canning.
In Noel Canning, the Supreme Court held that any Senate adjournment of 10 days or more is "the Recess" and that vacancies which originally opened up before such an adjournment are still considered to have "happened" during that adjournment so long as they remain vacant during the adjournment. In my view, the Supreme Court got both of these questions wrong. There's convincing scholarship by Professor Michael Rappaport that "the Recess" meant only the one gap between Senate sessions and that only vacancies that arose during that gap were eligible to be filled by recess appointment. Justice Scalia argued for this position in a concurrence in the judgment, but this view only received four votes on the Noel Canning Court.
Whether it was rightly decided or not, Noel Canning is the law of the land, and it gives the Senate a seemingly easy tool to aid a President of the same party. If the Senate simply adjourns for 10 days, a sitting President could fill every single vacancy in the executive branch and judiciary unilaterally. (From time to time, some people have questioned whether recess appointments may be used to temporarily fill judicial seats, given that there is some tension between a time-limited recess appointment and the Constitution's command that federal judges "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." Nonetheless, judicial recess appointments have been made throughout the country's history.)
All recess appointments take immediate effect without Senate consent, and they last until the end of the next session of the Senate. So any recess appointments made in 2025 would last until January 3rd, 2027.
The Senate has not allowed any recess appointments in the decade since Noel Canning was decided, not even at times when the Senate majority and President were of the same party. Why not? One wrinkle is that under the Constitution, neither house may "adjourn for more than three days" without the consent of the other. Article I, section 5, clause 4. So it is only possible for the Senate to adjourn long enough to enable recess appointments when it has the consent of the House. But why hasn't it even happened when the Senate, House, and presidency have all been controlled by the same party?
One answer is that triggering recess appointments is an "all-or-nothing" move. The Senate can't give the President authority to fill just some offices. Thanks to Noel Canning's holding that vacancies arising before an adjournment are eligible for recess appointments, every vacancy across the government could be filled at once, no matter how long ago the vacancy arose. So a senator who might be comfortable with, say, a recess appointment of Marco Rubio but not a recess appointment of Matt Gaetz or RFK Jr. would have no way to limit President Trump to just the former but not the latter. Even when the Senate and President are of the same party, that's a lot of leverage for the Senate to give up. Vetting and voting on nominees is one of the most important Senate prerogatives. Thus far, Senate leadership has never been willing to abdicate that role for two years.
Additionally, triggering recess appointments isn't necessary to ensure the executive branch remains fully staffed. There's a statute for exactly that purpose: The Federal Vacancies Reform Act. This law allows the President to fill all vacant offices with acting officers on day 1. I've written about abuses of the Vacancies Act, but it has an important and legitimate purpose. It allows the government to function while permanent nominees are considered by the Senate. Although acting officers at the beginning of an administration have a 300-day time limit, the law generously tolls the time limit on acting service while the Senate considers a nomination. So effectively, the President just needs to make a nomination within 300 days, and then the ball is in the Senate's court.
Senators know that the President has the Vacancies Act at his disposal. The Act allows for positions to be filled immediately (just like recess appointments), so it is simply not the case that recess appointments are necessary to keep the government running. But several limitations in the Vacancies Act incentivize the President to make permanent nominations and to get them confirmed, and these limitations are why a President would naturally prefer recess appointments.
First, the Vacancies Act places limits on who may serve as an acting officer, which the Recess Appointments Clause does not. Unless the President wants to let the deputy to a position take over as that position's acting officer, he is limited to choosing another Senate-confirmed officer or someone who has served in the highest tier of the federal civil service in that department for at least 90 days. Since nearly all Senate-confirmed officers resign when the White House changes hands, Presidents at the start of an administration are typically limited to the latter category (most of whom are career, nonpartisan civil servants). So a recess appointment would allow the President to immediately fill an office with a more ideologically aligned appointee.
Second, the Vacancies Act generally forbids serving simultaneously as the nominee for a position and as the acting officer in that same position. The Supreme Court clarified in the 2017 case NLRB v. SW General that this prohibition applies to the vast majority of acting officers. The only exception is for acting officers who also happen to be serving as the deputy to the vacant position, and who have either been confirmed by the Senate to that deputy position or who have served in that deputy position for at least 90 days. (This is why Julie Su, the Senate-confirmed Deputy Secretary of Labor, could serve as the Acting Secretary of Labor while simultaneously being the nominee for permanent Secretary of Labor). This exception is unlikely to apply to anyone Trump wants to nominate (since all current deputies were appointed by Biden), so recess appointments would be the only way to immediately install the same person that he wants to nominate for the permanent job.
Finally, as noted, the Vacancies Act requires a permanent nomination be made within a certain time limit. Recess appointments come with no such requirement, so a President could make a recess appointment and fill a slot with his preferred choice for nearly two years without even making a permanent nomination.
Ever since Noel Canning, the Senate has held a pro forma session every three days like clockwork to ensure that Presidents could not make recess appointments, no matter which party was in power. The Senate as an institution has little to gain from breaking this practice, and much to lose. That is why I hope (and believe) that the Senate will not voluntarily write the President a blank check to fill all offices across the government without any Senate scrutiny and approval.
But there is one more wrinkle. In 2020, then-President Trump threatened to employ (but ultimately did not use) an obscure constitutional clause: "in Case of Disagreement between [both houses], with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, [the President] may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper." Article II, section 3. As far as I am aware, this clause has never been invoked by a President, so it is highly uncertain how it would operate in practice. (Four years ago, Hans von Spakovsky and John Malcolm also wrote that they believed "this provision never has been invoked.") Both the majority and concurring opinions in Noel Canning briefly mentioned this clause as a potential tool for the President to create a recess, but neither spelled out how this would be achieved (and since this clause was not at issue in the case, these discussions should be considered dicta).
One interpretation (which may be favored by President-elect Trump) is that this clause can be invoked whenever one house adopts a joint resolution to adjourn both houses and the other house does not agree to that joint resolution. (Ed Whelan writes that this is apparently the interpretation the administration would urge if it attempted this strategy).
But there is another, much narrower, interpretation that presents itself when this clause is considered in its full context. (I am not aware of any other arguments that have been made along these lines concerning this clause, but I have not done all the research necessary to be sure that it has not already been presented elsewhere.) The full text of Article II, section 3 is as follows ("He" refers to the President throughout):
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
This entire clause is one long sentence, but it is divided by semicolons into seemingly discrete (and connected) subclauses. If we read each subclause between semicolons as a single idea, we get this: "he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper." Read this way, the President's power to adjourn both houses applies only when he has already used his extraordinary power to convene both houses. Under this interpretation, this power is only relevant if there is a disagreement about when to end (or when to bring back) such a special convening.
If the Senate is unwilling to adjourn for 10 days but President-elect Trump attempts to use this clause, we will be in uncharted waters. We would then almost certainly see litigation over the meaning of the "Time of Adjournment" clause for the very first time.
Thomas Berry is the director of the Cato Institute's Robert A. Levy Center for Constitutional Studies and Editor in Chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.
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I wonder how hard it would be to pass an amendment to eliminate recess appointments.
Or formalize it on more reasonable terms, such as the duration of the appointment being quite short, in return for guaranteed prompt votes on nominees.
I really think that the way it ought to work, is that a Presidential nominee should take office unless the Senate votes to reject them. That would give the Senate a strong incentive to actually do their job.
The Senate would schedule votes only for nominees it wants to reject.
Acceptable candidates would be allowed to take office with the threat of a future vote held over their heads indefinitely. You would give the Senate a way to remove an officer without involving the House.
No, I'd give the Senate a relatively short window in which to vote a nominee down, after which it was too late. But, yes, you'd have to make a motion to vote on a nominee privileged, so that the leadership couldn't block it.
It's kind of like digital design, isn't it? The original design starts out wonderfully clean, then you start adding things to handle race conditions and transients going from one state to another, and pretty soon half your logic is dedicated to just preventing rare errors. That clean Karnaugh map never translates directly into logic in practice.
Even closer analogy is the user interface in software. It could've been three lines of code. Then you try to make it accident proof and it's three hundred lines. Then you try to make it malice proof and it's thirty thousand lines.
"When the president shall have notified the Senate of a nomination, the Senate shall have 90 days to vote yea or nay, or the candidate shall be considered appointed."
Put their cowardice to work.
Well, that’s a nice clean, elegant, amendment.
But I don’t want a system where two people, the president + senate majority leader, can override a majority of senators wanting to vote against the appointee, simply by not scheduling the vote at all. In practice that would completely swallow the advice and consent process. As Brett suggests we’d need at least another clause guaranteeing that any senator can call the question and at least get a vote on whether to vote.
The new president sends over the names of all 93 US Attorney nominees on January 20. The senate has to hold hearings on each of them, vet all 93, within 90 days or they're confirmed? Or it has to reject some of them simply because it doesn't have enough time? Just to make it even more unworkable, the president also sends over a few hundred other nominations that same day.
If you want to say that the government is too big to manage democratically, I wouldn't argue. That's one of the reasons for shrinking it.
I don't agree that the number US Attorneys is "too big" for a country of 300 million. You might say that there are too many federal laws, but most violations are ignored, and that's not what absorbs the time of 93 US Attorneys.
1. Do we need them?
Yes – go to step 2.
No – reject, and eliminate the office in the next budget.
2. Do we need them now?
Yes – Then we shouldn’t leave it vacant more than 3 months anyway.
No – POTUS can wait to make the nomination.
I don’t see much advantage to democracy, integrity, or rule of law in letting a nomination linger for many months.
I don’t think it’s that unreasonable a time limit. Senators have staff that can be assigned to do the vetting and make recommendations, and the majority caucus could agree on a way to split up the work.
The Senate approves military officer commissions above major or lt. commander, and there are a lot of those. One imagines they routinely accept the recommendations of some office unless some kind of flag is raised; they could and should do the same for ordinary US attorneys.
Unless of course the POTUS is on some kind of irresponsible retributive rampage (not that that could ever happen….) in which case maybe bulk rejection is appropriate until the POTUS agrees to be more reasonable.
And all that extra stuff takes the fun out of programming.
It's amazing how this insight just suddenly came to you, and it never occurred to you before that laws and regulations are complicated for this reason rather than because of some unfathomable conspiracy.
No, actually it has occurred to me many times.
The difference is that you can actually perfect a digital design, because the electrons are going to follow the rules Every. Single. Time. (Or rather, even the violations are part of the rules.)
You can't perfect the law, let alone a constitution, because the people won't OBEY the freaking constitution if it gets in their way. They'll just violate it and then lie.
Yeah, the length of time for a recess appointment is part of the problem. They seem to have been intended as a stopgap measure, but they serve practically as long as someone who was confirmed by the Senate likely would have (except Judges). I have huge problems with pro forma sessions (which are basically a farce), but I understand the sentiment of them when the consequence of a recess appointment is so significant.
Personally, if I were drafting an amendment, I'd probably do something like this:
1. Any time the Senate fails to establish a quorum for a vote and propose, debate, or vote on legislation for a period lasting at least ten days, it is in recess.
2. The President may appoint any officer by recess appointment during that recess as long as that person has not been nominated by the President and failed to achieve consent by majority vote in the Senate.
3. That recess appointment may last no longer than 90 days (or six months or pick whatever number you want) after the Senate has resumed from its recess.
This is plausible, but in any event I don’t see how it can possibly be read to support the “joint resolution” theory, when read in context with Article I, section 5. At most, I can see an argument that (as relevant here), if the House wants to adjourn for more than three days and the Senate refuses consent, the president can resolve the disagreement. But since the House has no authority to compel the Senate to adjourn in the first place, I can’t see how any vote to that effect from the House could be anything more than a suggestion with no legal force, or how it could trigger any presidential authority.
As I mentioned on the other thread, I think you are right. But the way to get to the other answer is just to read the Art II Section 3 provision literally, on its own, without the context supplied by Art I Section 5.
Read this way, there can be a Disagreement simply when there’s a disagreement. The House passes a resolution calling on the Senate to adjourn, the Senate doesn’t. That’s a disagreement. That the House doesn’t have any legal right to insist on the Senate’s adjournment is by the by.
The interesting question is – supposing you are correct (as I do suppose) but the House and Trump go right ahead anyway, how do we get to the litigation that Berry predicts ?
In Noel Canning, the improperly appointed appointees did something to Noel Canning which gave NC standing. What does an improperly appointed AG have to do to give a litigant standing ? eg if he simply instructs his properly appointed Deputy AG to do something that the Deputy is legally entitled to do, and say the Deputy is happy that the AG is properly appointed and so obeys the instruction, then does the person adversely affected by the Deputy’s action have standing to challenge the AG’ appointment ?
One need not go too far back in history to find examples. You probably recall the controversy over President Trump’s designation of Matthew Whitaker as Acting Attorney General. I believe there were a few cases brought. It was Whitaker, as Acting AG, who signed the bump-stock ban recently struck down by the Supreme Court. One litigant, allegedly harmed by the ban, sued, alleging, among other things, that Whitaker was unlawfully appointed and therefore had no authority to promulgate the rule. But after William Barr became AG, he ratified Whitaker’s actions, so the argument became moot. Koster v. Whitaker, 427 F.Supp.3d 1140 (D. Ariz. 2019).
" Since nearly all Senate-confirmed officers resign when the White House changes hands, Presidents at the start of an administration are typically limited to the latter category (most of whom are career, nonpartisan civil servants)."
That 'nonpartisan' is a bit of a joke, you know. It differs by agency, but in almost all agencies the party ratio is overwhelming.
So, under the Vacancies act, if you want to drain the swamp, you can only hire alligators to do it. This is really not helpful at all to an incoming administration that wants a drastic change in policy.
That said, I am persuaded that the only recess that counts for the recess appointment clause is an inter-session recess, I think the scheme being discussed IS unconstitutional.
But the Vacancies act is no help for a President who wants a change of policy, and can't trust that career bureaucrats will follow his directives.
Nonpartisan doesn’t mean never donated to a political party.
You are such a partisan you can’t understand normal people doing normal jobs normally. Integrity and professionalism do not exist in your world and that’s sad,
You're making that 'non-partisan' unfalsifiable, by just declaring that evidence to the contrary doesn't matter.
In 2020, when Trump was still President, political donations by staff at the DOJ ran to $2,020,588 to Democrats, and $286,083 to Republicans. At the FCC, $185,429 to $1,344. The only agency close to parity was the Department of state, where only 54% of donations were to Democrats. For most of the agencies over 90% of donations went to Democrats.
And you want to pretend that the staff of these agencies are non-partisan. You just make your self look stupid doing that.
Again, I do understand normal people doing normal jobs normally, with integrity and professionalism. I also understand that doesn't describe the federal bureaucracy.
No, Brett, I'm pointing out that your evidence of partisanship is not actually evidence.
You keep doubling down on this irrelevant bit, because you can't believe other people lack your slavish devotion to your party of choice.
Who can forget The Resistance?
You like to pretend that somehow civil servants are a special breed of humans who, even when nearly unaccountable, act with integrity and will violate their own beliefs to implement policy.
Policies which they believe harm others, harm society, and undermine freedom and liberty.
You are delusional, or you gaslighting as normal.
"Who can forget The Resistance?"
The anonymous article published by a source you regularly deride as not credible?
And that didn't say what MAGA loons claim, anyway? The guy was not saying that they were Democrats trying to thwart the Trump administration. He said that they were Republicans trying to help the administration succeed by frustrating some of its worst impulses. (Also, to be clear, these were not unelected bureaucrats, but senior officials.)
"No, Brett, I’m pointing out that your evidence of partisanship is not actually evidence."
Evidence of extremely lopsided political donations to one party isn't evidence of partisanship?
Whatever you gotta tell yourself, dude.
It might look bad or suggest something, but when people talk about partisanship by bureaucrats I think they're talking about them acting in partisan ways in their jobs not what they prefer and support in their off time, right?
A lot of NBA refs were very likely big fans of Michael Jordan (you don't become an NBA ref unless you enjoy basketball and if you enjoy basketball you have to marvel at MJ), and maybe in their off time paid more money to go watch him play than they did Karl Malone. But that doesn't demonstrate those refs were biased in the games they refereed with Jordan and Malone.
“It might look bad or suggest something,”
What we might call evidence.
Your Michael Jordan example doesn't really work. Having a party preference doesn't just indicate that you admire the party, it indicates that you would prefer to see that party's policies implemented instead of the other party's.
A strong disparity in donations indicates that the federal workforce prefers to implement one party's policies over the other's.
No. Evidence of partisanship would involve work-related action - refusing to comply with a superior's order, slow-walking some required process, etc. A donation, for example, means that closer scrutiny of their work would be legit, There are people, Trump certainly, who can't comprehend how one might separate private views from work activities, I agree.
It would closer if those refs were all betting on the Bulls and calling games accordingly.
"calling games accordingly."
That's just question begging here, isn't it? If not tell me why.
"Your Michael Jordan example doesn’t really work. Having a party preference doesn’t just indicate that you admire the party, it indicates that you would prefer to see that party’s policies implemented instead of the other party’s."
I'm not sure the second part is true, especially with Trump (professional bureaucrats could just be turned off by Trump's lack of professionalism regardless of policy [couldn't this be why so many longtime Republicans repudiate him?]).
You mean like the lady in FL who told her subordinates to NIT stop at houses with Trump paraphernalia? That sort of integrity?
I know it's a foreign concept here, but there's such a thing as integrity, and most professionals have it.
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/11/14/thursday-open-thread-217/?comments=true#comment-10800327
Bootstrapping one conspiracy into another.
We have practitioners on this site. Professionals, if you will. The do not side with your take on Flynn.
It is partisanship = lopsided donations
The arguments against are sophistry.
So what do you want to do?
Outlaw contributions from civil servants?
You know, as soon as Trump can manage to fire anyone who's ever donated five bucks to a Democrat he's going to replace them with MAGAts. Is that your notion of an "unbiased" DOJ.
And then the Democrats will do the same when they control the Oval office, and, horrors: Elections will actually change policy!
From your own source State, which you concede splits about evenly, donated 5.25, double the DOJ and FCC amount combined.
It would also be interesting to see what the splits were pre-Trump, by his own admission Trump is very hostile to parts of the federal government, of course in their individual giving people in those agencies will take that kind of thing into account.
In 2008: Feds' political contributions increasingly go to Democrats
In 2016: Federal Employees Are Donating Almost Exclusively to Hillary Clinton
"Of the $2 million contributed from employees at 14 agencies, just 5 percent went to Trump."
The trend of federal employees donating mostly to Democrats has been going on for a long time, and gradually getting worse from election to election. The 2020 figures, as stark as they were, were actually shifted in favor of Republicans relative to 2016.
I appreciate the links, but you seem to be making the same error as before. I mean, you should know by now that employees of one agency by itself, the DOD, give twice as much as the amount given for the 14 chosen by the source you cite. That's strong evidence of cherry-picking.
No, it means that the partisanship will have different impacts in different policy areas. Less in foreign relations, more in the 'police' agencies.
I mean, even the relatively balanced State Department was sabotaging Trump policy:
Top US official admits lying to Trump on American troop levels in Syria
Imagine how bad things could get in an agency where over 90% of the staff are Democrats, and you don't have to worry about your work being reviewed by somebody who actually agrees with the President.
You're still assuming that which needs to be proven, that because someone contributes to candidate A, they will not do their jobs properly if candidate B wins.
I think I demonstrated with the comment directly above yours that this actually IS a problem, the only question is the magnitude of it.
You provided one example, and even then you needed to burnish it with an 'imagine' flight of fancy.
You want more examples, like the DOJ using the Steele dossier, and even defrauding the FISA court to continue surveillance of Trump's campaign? The IRS targeting scandal?
Those are just policies you don't like, with some right-wing conspiracizing thrown in.
Even if your anecdotes weren't rotten with right-wing fever swamp takes, a blizard of anecdotes isn't generalizable, definitionally. This blog has sure shown me how otherwise technically adroit people will discard all their experience and critical thinking skills for tribal reasons.
There are thousands upon thousands of decisions made every day that by nonpartisan professionals.
You don't see them because you only care about the small sliver of government functions you've been told to be outraged about.
I think we have now demonstrated that there is basically no partisan abuse the bureaucracy can commit, that Sarcastr0 won't defend as merely "policies you don't like".
No, Brett, we've demonstrated that I don't agree with your right wing hot takes on stuff.
I think we have now demonstrated that there is basically no partisan abuse the bureaucracy can commit, that Sarcastr0 won’t defend
Partisan abuse! The guy in that article was a conservative Republican political appointee, appointed by Trump himself, previously appointed to stuff by W.
The exact opposite of a professional Democratic career federal employee with integrity.
Here’s what the Washington Examiner (!) had to say about him when he was appointed (TLDR: a glowing review).
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/95655/meet-jim-jeffrey-a-great-pick-to-lead-us-strategy-on-syria/
You are insane Brett. Insane in the membrane. Insane in the brain.
Brett, were you really surprised? = I think we have now demonstrated that there is basically no partisan abuse the bureaucracy can commit, that Sarcastr0 won’t defend as merely “policies you don’t like”.
Consider the opponent....completely invested progressives with their woke mind virus (more politely called, a minority view).
Obviously, XY, you didn't read Brett's link. (Neither, apparently, did Brett.)
The lesson of the article is that as President, you can't trust opportunistic political appointees, even those of your own party!
It's the whole reason we have career civil servants. Trump would do better to rely on career Democrats than appointed Republicans. That's the lesson of Jim Jeffrey.
XY,
Consider the opponent….completely invested progressives with their woke mind virus (more politely called, a minority view).
You want to see a completely invested partisan with a mind virus, look in the mirror.
"No, it means that the partisanship will have different impacts in different policy areas. Less in foreign relations, more in the ‘police’ agencies.
I mean, even the relatively balanced State Department was sabotaging Trump policy:"
Didn't you just undercut your argument (it seems the amount of biased action doesn't seem to correlate with disparities in giving)?
Disparities in giving is a proxy for partisan balance, it's not a direct measure. Most of the bureaucrats don't donate at all, the ones who do are just being treated as a maybe representative sample of the partisan affiliation of the ones who don't.
So I don't think I've rigorously proven anything, all I'm pointing to is evidence that strongly suggests there's a problem: The bureaucracy don't look, politically, much like America. They look more like DC.
And that's a problem when America elects a Republican administration.
I'm not sure it even strongly suggests much other than that educated, urban professionals don't prefer to support current Republicans as much as Democrats when they give donations. I mean, that's true for most of that class whether they work in the government or not. Maybe most doctors or lawyers or whatever give more to Democrats, but that doesn't prove they don't treat or represent non-Democrats fairly.
Let's put it another way: what if we looked at the subset of government bureaucrats who were evangelical Christians and we found that more of them donated to or preferred Republican candidates. Do you think that "strongly suggests" they must be undercutting any policies ordered by Democratic officials or their services to Democrats?
Have you considered the one guy the article is about was just full of it? I mean, others in the same article say that essentially. And it doesn't say the misleading was partisan to my reading.
Brett, Sarcastr0, Malika: You're all missing the main point on those donation numbers.
What those numbers actually show is that the vast majority of federal agency staff don't make any recorded donations at all. The DoJ has 115,000 employees and only donations of over $200 are subject to mandatory reporting of occupation and employer. Do the math.
And no, those who make donations are not a valid sample of the whole, unless you make two cascaded false assumptions that *everyone* is a secret partisan and donations merely reveal it, and that Democrats and Republicans are equally likely to make that revelation.
IMO the correct conclusion is: Most partisans in the civil service are Democrats, but most civil servants aren't partisan.
That agrees with what I experienced while in the civil service for 31 years.
Yeah, the lack of a baseline is a *great* point.
IMO the correct conclusion is: Most partisans in the civil service are Democrats, but most civil servants aren’t partisan.
Probably right. Though not rock-solid established, as your 'IMO' acknowledges.
In 2020, when Trump was still President, political donations by staff at the DOJ ran to $2,020,588 to Democrats, and $286,083 to Republicans.
That's about 7-1.
All contributions by lawyers that year ran about 4-1 to Democrats in the House, just over 2-1 in the Senate, and Biden outraised Trump by almost 7-1. All of that came to a 5-1 advantage for Dems.
This year was 3 -1 in the House, 4.5-1 in the Senate, and a remarkable 11-1 in the Presidential race. Again, about a 5-1 Democratic advantage overall.
So we know that lawyers in general much favor Dems in their contributions, and assuming almost all DOJ employees who contribute are lawyers, there is not a wide difference here.
FWIW
I was just reminded that less than a month after taking office in 2017, Trump's head-of-state conversations with Nieto (Mexico) and Turnbull (Australia) were leaked by State and/or Intelligence bureaucrats. Seems like proof the rank file "just there for the job" bureaucrats aren't really normal people doing normal jobs normally.
I remember that very well. That was pretty big. And no accountability.
I hope you're leaning on the "bit" part here, because your source seems to
1. Involve some cherry-picking (including donations by the National Postal Mail Handlers Union but not, say, Border Patrol)
2. Actually show many agencies with fairly even splits in giving by employees exists (DOD, Postal Service and State, which the citation says are the three largest sources, are 34%, 38% and 46% to Republicans)
Off the break his metric doesn’t show slam dunk partisanship, and it’s kid of nuts he thinks it does.
What does "slam dunk partisanship" look like to you?
The President visits a federal office, and faces small arms fire from the bureaucrats.
Heh. That was pretty funny.
It's actually kind of nuts that Sarcastr0 thinks a 62-38 split is even.
He didn't say even, I said split fairly even. Whatever it is, 60-40 is not some incredibly lopsided slant.
62-38 was the best case, remember. Most of the agencies are 90-10 or more. There are wide swaths of federal policy where a Republican President is relying on agencies staffed almost entirely by Democrats to execute his policies.
For a professed engineer you don't seem particularly interested in the details. The best case, which you've pointed to explicitly elsewhere! was, was 54-46.
There's a reason I'm planning on retiring soon, you know.
And everyone will be safer when you do.
Laugh it up, this will happen to you, too, if you live long enough.
No, Madam Bellmore, I will never be a mind-reading fortune-teller who bases their entire worldview on evidence-free conspiracies and insanity.
As safe as a Boeing plane designed and build by a bunch of DEI engineers?
It’s actually kind of nuts that Sarcastr0 thinks a 62-38 split is even.
That's not what I said.
You're so convinced of your thesis you don't even understand the very basic issue I'm taking with your argument.
I think we get your basic issue.
The __% of legacy media that lean left doesn't mean they are not normal people doing normal jobs normally.
Is that a fair comparison?
I won't speak for Sarc but I would say, yes, I'm making a similar point. It's a very common experience for people to follow norms of their occupation or profession regardless of the political orientation of their client, customer or boss.
Heck, I have seen many times in youth sports where there is not enough referees available for a travel league soccer or basketball game and where a literal parent of one team's player volunteers and refs the game. Not only are they usually quite fair, if anything I've seen them call the game *more favorably for the opponent of their kid's team* because they want to appear fair.
I think some conservatives, especially at the professional level, get this and it is why they 'work the refs' so much.
I can’t take anybody seriously who sits there with a straight face and says the legacy media isn’t really biased. Just how the media covered for Biden’s decline should be enough for YOU to question your conclusions. Sure we got a few leaks like “Biden only works from 10:00-4:00.” Were there absolutely zero leaks regarding his true state? I can’t believe through his meetings with other leaders and his own staff over 3 1/2 years nobody went off the record. Of course they did. There is a journalist on Substack, linked here on Volokh, claiming leaders told journalists in 2021 something wasn’t right. Why weren’t they written until after his disastrous debate?
A week before the debate Jake Tapper and NYT times were warning against “deceptively edited” and out of context videos. Are there some videos? Sure. Are real videos showing his decline more important than pushing that videos are manipulated?
There are deceptively edited videos of Trump. “Inject bleach” comes to mind. I am sure Jake Tapper was all over that and defended Trump.
How about 60 Minutes interview with Kamala? Would they have cleaned up a Trump answer that reinforced a negative?
The media cleaned up Trump's comments all the time. (Google "sanewashing.") He would give some 10 minute rambling response to a question for which 9½ minutes didn't even address the topic of the question, and the other 30 seconds didn't make any sense ether, and the media would report it as, "Trump gave a speech focused on the economy and said that tariffs would solve X."
They must be a part of that exposed journo share site known not as the resistance, but the resistance to resistance. The vast legacy media groups wanting a thousand year reign of Trumpskyvites.
Ask Trump if wanted or liked the edit. Ask Kamala if she liked or wanted the edit. Hell, Trump did three unscripted hours. Kamala wouldn't do one hour if it wasn't edited.
Yes, Satchmo, you are a stupid person, and journalists are generally pretty smart, so they're biased in favor of smartness. You can find the news for stupid people on channel Fox.
^This (meaning S_L above)
See DMN above. The media constantly tried to make Trump's ravings seem at least a little coherent, and failed in reporting on just what a random babbler he is.
And anyone who pays attention to RW media has no business complaining about bias. Just because NYT and others don't report Breibart's BS doesn't make them biased.
This is a change of terminology in service of proving something you can't.
The evidence for 'lean left' seems to be political donations (never mind all the people not donating). If you have other evidence, you haven't seen fit to share it.
But normal people make polticial donations. So if you want to argue that leaning left is not a normal people thing your evidence doesn't prove that. You're going to need to do a lot more work on that.
I know this 'the refs are biased' is a baseline conservative belief, and so you don't generally bother with proving it. But you should.
That's something of a left-wing trope, the notion that disagreeing with the left is actually not understanding the left.
I understand perfectly well your position: That the vast majority of the bureaucracy are sufficiently professional that they don't let their party preferences influence their work.
I just think it's hopelessly, demonstrably, naive.
If you understand that point why do you think pointing out mere disparities in political preferences or giving prove much to anyone who holds it?
I agree with you. People do let their partisan leanings affect their work. Right-wingers hate most government agencies and often their clients, so they apply less often and do a terrible job. As a result, agencies tend to be staffed with people who support the agencies' missions and wish to perform well. That this is a value of Democrats and not one of Republicans results, inevitably, in Democrats dominating these positions. Those few agencies whose missions are supported by Republicans, such as ICE, have plenty of right-wingers staffing them.
Your problem is that your party hates our government, not that our government hates your party.
That’s something of a left-wing trope, the notion that disagreeing with the left is actually not understanding the left.
Oh bullshit. Where did this come from? A statement by some left-wing city councilman which you, in your usual fashion, claim represents the view of "the left." You do this repeatedly, Brett, and it's only serves to prove you really can't support your statement.
You want a trope? How about conservative claims that disagreeing with the right is unpatriotic, and a mark of not being a "real American."
So, were the State and/or Intelligence Dept leaks of Trump's head-of-state calls in Feb 2017 to Mexico and Australia an example of bureaucrats being normal people doing normal jobs normally?
Or Lois Lerner, for that matter.
A blog written by a small family with vague bios. Definitely the best source of information.
Democrats have spent the last year proclaiming Trump=threat to democracy=dictator. Not enough voters bought it, but, first thing, here’s Trump looking to skirt the rules. Why wouldn’t Schumer and Jeffries jump on the wagon and vote FOR any recess that a Trump-Republican makes motion for? They could always look innocent and say “keeping a Republican Congress out of session is ok with Democrats,” all the while knowing that recess appointments will then become the Collusion Hoax of Trump’s second term…they’ll beat it like an Everlast speed bag, and the thumpa-thumpa-thumpa will drown out everything else.
Once he nominates someone for Attorney General who is under investigation for serious crimes and who has no qualifications whatsover other than being willing to do whatever he wants, I think the cat is pretty much out of the bag here, and these sorts of arguments just don’t work anymore.
I think we have to be careful here. On the one hand, recess appointments are constitutional , especially if Trump succeeds in his plan ro influence the Senate to select leadership who will not conduct the pro forma sessions that have been customarily conducted in recent years. I think that if the leadership agrees to this. Noel Canning is satisfied.
At the same time, I strongly disagree with Professor Blackman’s claim that if the Constitution permits it, it can’t be anti-Democratic. The German precedent is instructive. Hitler systematically and strategically probed the Weimar Constitution for loopholes and was careful to follow them to the letter in converting Germany from a liberal republic to a totalitarian dictatorship. The Weimar constitution’s Article 48 permitted the President and Chancellor to enact emergency decrees suspending portions of the constitution including civil rights. This provision was invoked and the decrees duly enacted according to form after the Reichstag fire. These decrees then legally permitted the Nazis to arrest the Communist deputies and keep them from entering the Reichstag without process. Because the Weimar Constitution permitted the Reichstag to pass a constitutional amendment by a 2/3 majority with 2/3 or the members present, once the Communist deputies were disposed of, without them the Nazis had the necessary 2/3 quorum present and 2/3 majority under the Constitution to amend the Constitution This power was used to pass the Enabling Act, which was passed with all the necessary formalities and process. When Hindenbergh died, the Reichstag duly passed another constitutional amendment to create the office of Fuhrer. Everything was done in strict accordance with the Weimar constitution.
The United States Constitution contains similar loopholes, designed like the Weimar constitution to prevent it from being a suicide pact and to enable the government to respond to emergencies, that also permit removing checks and balances on absolute power by someone willing to systematically manipulate them, as Hitler did with the Weimar constitution. Systematic use of the recess appointment clause to appoint cronies who could never get confirmed by the Senate and whose loyalty is to the person of the President and not to the country or the Constituty is one such potential loophole.
Oh, I agree: You could follow the US Constitution to the letter, (Not that we currently do!) and do some really awful, anti-democratic things.
For instance, entirely within the rules, a modest minority in Congress, say a third, could walk into the chambers during a recess, wait until enough of the majority had shown up to achieve a quorum, (1 member more than 50%), and with a snap vote expel all members of the majority party. And it would be entirely constitutional!
People are not generally aware of the extent that the continued survival of democracy in the US is dependent on norms that have no constitutional basis.
But, as I say, we're not even being faithful to the text at this point. The quorum clause doesn't get gamed, it just outright gets violated.
Brett Bellmore : "People are not generally aware of the extent that the continued survival of democracy in the US is dependent on norms that have no constitutional basis"
1. Absolutely true.
2. Yet you slavishly support Trump.
3. Do you care about continued survival of democracy in the US in the slightest?
2. Yeah, because of his opponent. I've already said that in theory the Democratic party could have nominated somebody who would have made me not vote for Trump. It's just that today's Democratic party wouldn't. The things that made me hold my nose and vote for Trump in the general election, (But not in the primary.) are now core values of the Democratic party.
3. I do, and I'm not interested in pretending that Trump is the only threat to that.
Say what you want about Brett, but he's been quite clear here he recognizes and laments Trump's many faults.
I do find him entertaining, I'll admit. I'm a fan of dark humor.
I have to be, nobody I'd actually like (Rand Paul, for instance.) can win the Republican nomination, and nobody I could tolerate has any chance at winning the Democratic.
Perhaps that will change some day.
In the meanwhile I reflect upon how much I disliked Jimmy Carter, and didn't appreciate that there was much worse than largely harmless mediocrity.
“I reflect upon how much I disliked Jimmy Carter, and didn’t appreciate that there was much worse than largely harmless mediocrity.”
I am so stealing that.
Although, I am not old enough to have any experience regarding Carter. I remember voting for Reagan at 10 years old in elementary school. We had to answer questions as to why we voted the way we did. I still have the sheet where the question was: What was the main reason you voted for your candidate? My answer was "he is not Carter." My dad was a Texas Democrat at the time. He railed on Carter every time he saw him on TV.
I have seen less of that than you have, Malika. I've also seen Brett offer absurd defenses of Trump's actions, and reject any criticism (except for criticism of the bump stock ban).
We're well aware of that, and have been saying it for years, with the response from you and your ilk being, "Norms, schnorms. It's legal, so it's okay. Norms are just part of the Uniparty Conspiracy To Get Trump."
Apparently when Kurt Godel was naturalised, and the judge said, you're now a citizen of a country where a dictatorship is impossible, he responded,"no, and I can show you how it can happen" (or words to that effect.) Einstein got Godel to shut up.
A fuller account from Oskar Morgenstern:
https://robert.accettura.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Morgenstern_onGoedelcitizenship.pdf
As far as I know, no one has identified exactly what Godel’s supposed contradiction was. This law review article suggests an answer on the belief that it must have been related to Godel’s work on recursion, although I don’t find that assumption or conclusion entirely convincing.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2010183
Defining nonpartisan as 'your agency collectively made political donation equally to both parties' is redefining a word so you can make a claim.
A claim that's necessary if you want to rationalize an ideological purge.
As authoritarians do.
What did you expect? Language is a weapon in the class warfare.
As a reluctant Trump voter and non-lawyer who really tries, but often fails, to fully understand the legal arguments, Trump taking the more extreme actions to fill vacancies would seem to validate cries of dictator. "I am going to go forward without the role of checks and balances from the legislature being fulfilled."
I imagine Trump standing outside a bar near Harvard with a piece of paper pressed against the window listing his cabinet picks; "how you like them apples!"
Why would you play nice with people that have already proven through their actions that they will tell any lie and break any rule or law just to thwart you and the people that voted for you?
While there are many Democrats who engaged in such behavior, Trump doesn't need a single one of them. We are talking about going around Republicans who think people like Gaetz and Hesgeth are unqualified to do the job for a multitude of reasons.
If you are going to repair clocks, you need to know how clocks work. If you want to reform a bureaucracy, you need to know the bureaucracy works.
I think Trump's "fixing" of the bureaucracy only involves making it loyal to him personally, and responsive to his every whim. As Sarcastro said, authoritarian. I don't think he cares how well civil servants perform their jobs.
You can think what you wish, and so can Trump for that matter. He couldn't do shit about the bureaucracy last time because he put people in place who were in over there head. He can desire to be authoritarian all he wants, but it takes a Holder or Garland to actually make it happen.
Remember in less than a month in 2017 he had leaks from the "resistance" in State and/or Intelligence releasing his phone calls to foreign leaders.
"The enemy has no principles so neither will I!"
Social Justice is neither : " ... they will tell any lie and break any rule or law just to thwart you ..."
Non-bullshit citation required.
(and good luck with that)
What were uncharted waters was the obstruction in President Trump’s first term, the abusive and malicious investigations, and impeachments, followed by politically motivated prosecutions. I guess President Trump has had enough of this crap and intends to exercise his constitutional prerogatives to their fullest in the appointment process for his key positions. The left has no business complaining given their years of bad faith obstruction and abuses of power.
What "obstruction?"
Years waiting for confirmation votes, literally no Senate recesses. That’s just on the confirmation process. And far more malicious conduct during the impeachment nonsense and fake collusion garbage. Not happening again.
The Senate has not allowed any recess appointments in the decade since Noel Canning was decided.
So, should we regard the last ten years as the constitutional norm, or the 237 years that preceded them? When Trump left office, he became the only President, other than William Henry Harrison, who died one month into office, to make no recess appointments. (Biden will most likely have none either).
The constitutional norm was that recess appointments were used when a normal person would say the Senate was really out of session. Not when they when knocked off for a few hours to get some sleep and shit, shower, and shave. And also not when the president ordered a recess for the sole purpose of doing recess appointments.
Then a president – who was a Democrat – tried to violate the first part of that norm, Republicans rightly called him out on it, and the Supreme Court rightly and unanimously sided with the Republicans.
Republican congressmen who haven’t drunk all the Kool-Aid, and there are some, need to remember the principles they defended during Obama’s attempt.
Obama purported to make "recess appointments" when there wasn't a recess, setting up a case with a result anyone could have predicted, a unanimous ruling against him. And yet I don't recall nationwide paroxysms of unhinged hysteria and screams of "Dictator!" over Obama's unprecedented, blatantly unconstitutional actions.
The usual overwrought reaction to anything and everything Trump says and does aside, if the Senate goes into recess, then the President can make recess appointments.
There was certainly quite a bit of criticism of Obama’s actions, including the Noel Canning case itself. Of course, Obama (an)used the process only for a handful of relatively low level bureaucrats, not his entire cabinet.
I think Breyer’s opinion was a reasonable statement of the history and tradition (the leading test these days, correct?).
The Constitution provides much play in the joints. I would not rest on doubtful originalist scholarship, which regularly spends a lot of words to at best get us to what “might” be the best answer.
Also, Noel Canning being the “cause” of the situation is somewhat misleading given the history. It “sealed the deal” but it reflected how things were done. The ultimate test here is not “parchment barriers” but the judgment of the parties.
For instance, Noel Canning arose with the practice of a sort of constitutional hardball that blocked the appointment of key nominees. The pro forma sessions served as a countercheck. Since current transportation capabilities make recess appointments somewhat anachronistic, I’m okay with them as a means to avoid abuse. Recess appointments will be left open for emergencies when normal Senate sessions are impossible.
As an aside, let’s answer any “I’m shocked!” by such actions of Trump with some scorn. We knew who he was.
https://www.dorfonlaw.org/2024/11/if-rfk-jr-or-matt-gaetz-tulsi-gabbard.html
A general point about what keeps this controversy going. It's textualism.
There is a great deal in American constitutionalism, and in the norms of judicial practice, to constrain judges and justices. The Cases and Controversies clause, if taken seriously, creates constraint. It prevents a judge or justice from just weighing in on whatever policy question looks tempting.
That works together with the norm that appellate law accepts evidentiary decisions decided below. Witnesses, and expert witnesses testimony, constrain judicial freelancing.
Testimony and arguments which have power to decide judicial outcomes are generally subject to processes of cross-examination and rebuttal. It looks flagrantly biased for a judge or justice to simply ignore dispositive-looking witness testimony, or well-founded legal rebuttals. The notions of precedent and reliance impose judicial constraints.
The notion of textualism bypasses all those kinds of constraints. It puts unbounded power into the hands of appellate judges and justices. They declare themselves final arbiters of what legal texts brought before them mean, and on that basis decide cases to suit themselves.
If they are Supreme Court justices, no one can say otherwise. That amounts to unbounded power over the political branches, and over historical interpretation, and over the claims of precedent and reliance. It amounts to judicial supremacy.
The notion of textualism ought to be recognized as the opposite of judicial constraint.
How does precedent provide restraint that textualism doesn't (or vice versa)? Can't one pick and choose among precedent as easily as one might from history?
Malika — Textualism is not about picking a text (according to preference) from an assortment of possibilities. Neither is historical inference about doing that.
Textualism is about substituting present-minded interpretation as a pretend context of creation for the text in question. Where that is an antique text, context contemporaneous with the text's creation has invariably been forgotten. Present-minded context gets substituted.
That occurs unreflectively, as a matter of a presumed capacity to read English. As if any actual text written in English would mean exactly what any reader presumed it to mean, anywhere, at any time, under any circumstances.
Thus, intending no deception, some pro-textualists just make stuff up. They do it often, heedlessly.
Pro-textualists on the Supreme Court get to do that without fear of effectual contradiction by anyone. If they desire a particular outcome for a case, nothing is simpler, or less vulnerable to challenge, than just to announce the text of the law commands that outcome.
By contrast, the academic historical method begins with years of reading sources relevant to the times, places, and events under consideration, with an eye to achieving an approximation of the cognitive resources and habits a well-educated person from that time and place could rely upon.
A crucial component of that laborious training is to cultivate a capacity to forget and disregard influence by whatever occurrences, ideas, cultural evolutions, inventions, or other contributors to present-minded context may have happened after the text's creation. For instance, most folks alive today have been pickled since birth in expectations and influences related to: pervasive uses of electricity; expectations of employment outside agriculture; high speed transport; instantaneous world-wide communication; the science and practice of public health; mechanized warfare; the notion of economics as a social science and as a profession; near-universal literacy; uniform application of the laws among social classes; statistical analysis; urbanization; industrialism; and so on, and on, and on.
Compared to the founding era, those, plus myriad similar influencers, comprise a gigantic and usually-disregarded change affecting the context of every text remembered from the past, and everything else which happens today. Such factors have been intervening influencers, completely without effect during the founding era, because they came after it, but comprising the vast majority of present-minded analytical context, because they came before it.
Thus, the interval between then and now revolutionized thought, culture, and even contextual meaning of every text created now or in the past. That process does not rest; it acts continuously.
To untangle resulting confusions, with an eye to infer the missing contemporaneous context of creation for an antique document, academic historians use methods generally unnoticed by lawyers, judges, and justices. The rules of practice which define those methods supply constraints which guide and somewhat systematize the historical profession.
Modern legal textualism takes no notice of those rules of practice at all, or of any others. Textualism is about capacity to read English, and about procuring a position of authority to make asserted meanings prevail as law. Except for that, practitioners of textualism tout its constraints, but acknowledge none but themselves to assert them.
Why do you think you are qualified in any way to discuss textualism?
But he's not wrong.
I dunno; my eyes glazed over about 75 paragraphs into that screed.
Nieporent — Add, "screed," to the considerable list of pejoratives you like to use, but do not understand.
"but do not understand"
I dunno. Cambridge says "a long piece of writing, especially one that is boring or expresses an unreasonably strong opinion". Merriam Webster says "a lengthy discourse". Oxford says "a long piece of writing, especially one that is not very interesting".
Which of those do you think doesn't apply?
Absaroka — Nieporent calls my comment 75 paragraphs. It is 11 paragraphs. Average sentences per paragraph: 2.09.
I enjoyed notable business success selling stuff 4 times that long—and no less complicated—to an audience of Idaho ski bums—with a few lawyers smarter than Nieporent sprinkled in.
I concede the ski bums proved generally more alert than the VC audience. More curious, too.
Then I repeated that success 3 times. First for a similar audience in Aspen, CO. Then for an audience of Mormon farmers and small business owners in southern Idaho. And finally for an audience of high-tech nerds in the Boston, MA area.
I am not too worried about Nieporent's literary criticism, or yours.
Want a pro tip on how to keep an audience interested? Never write about dictionary definitions. No one wants to read stuff which combines bad features of pedantry, with an appeal to authority, by someone who looks proud to write that way.
To give you your due, thanks for omitting farfetched analogies this time. That at least takes a step in the right direction.
"75 paragraphs. It is 11 paragraphs."
Eh, cut him a break, they didn't say there would be math in law school. And it's hard to keep track when your eyes glaze over. That you went and computed sentences per paragraph ... priceless!
Novels, newspaper articles, and blog comments aren't all the same length.
"Never write about dictionary definitions"
When people here say someone else is using a word wrong, I consult the dictionary. Arguments of the form 'I'm right even though the dictionary disagrees' are ... unconvincing. Everyone insisting on using their personal dictionary variant just results in the Tower of Babel.
I suspect we can put “textualism” next to “free speech”, “Section 230”, and “sovereignty” on our list of terms Stephen Lathrop doesn’t know the meaning of.
Edit: Just saw his follow-up comment. Suspicion is no longer necessary.
Noscitur — Seems like you are capable to respond substantively when you disagree with some folks' commentary. Why do you suppose that capacity disappears when you respond to mine?
I’ll take a stab, which is that you’re making an argument against originalism, not textualism. Although they typically go hand in hand, they are distinct, and textualism by itself doesn’t imply a historical / original context or lens. In fact you could make a strong argument for a theory of textualism set within a modern context.
Randal — Your remark is a good one, and it does apply up to a point. But even in modern context, resort to textualism can become a means to bypass contrary jurisprudential considerations.
For instance, Sackett II included an extensive record of precedent to support the government. There was in the record even a renewed action by Congress to reinforce its original intent. There was unrefuted evidence in briefs by amici that the textual interpretation used in the decision was founded on a presumption of facts contrary to those pertaining to the case in question.
All that counted for nothing after Court members unhappy with the decision apparently concluded they owed more allegiance to textualism than to those other factors they mentioned in vain. So although there was impassioned disagreement expressed incongruously as concurrence, there was no formal dissent. The minority apparently quailed from coming out openly against textualism.
The resulting decision literally cut by half the nationwide area of waters and wetlands the CWA protected. The facts of the case did not support the opinion. 50 years of precedents remained contrary to the opinion. The intent of Congress had been made unambiguous by re-passage of law in support of the government's position.
So what? A majority said the text of the law meant something which no one had said previously, and the case thus became an incongruous vehicle to rewrite the law.
But of course you are also right that some interpretations of originalism insist on something amounting to textualism. The recess appointments issue is a case in point. My critique above applies alike in either case—whether originalist methods or textualist methods get touted as justifications.
I don't think forcing a recess is a good idea from a practical standpoint. It's a needless escalation however constitutional it is (or isn't).
In practice, if Trump forced a recess, he'd make dire enemies of most of the Republican caucus. (It would be redundant for the Democratic caucus.) It's about the only scenario I see where he might realistically end up impeached AND convicted.
And it wouldn't work, either; The Senate would refuse to recess, and the Court would likely say he just couldn't do that.
OTOH, if he managed to persuade the Republicans that a recess so that he could get off to a quick start was something they were amenable to, a voluntary recess would have no such effect. I believe it's this latter he's actually hoping for.
Practically speaking, forcing a recess only happens if Trump has allies in Congress, but primarily the Speaker of the House, the Senate Majority leader, or both.
You're correct in that he'll anger some GOP Senators, but them being angry is a far cry from them taking action against Trump. After all, Trump ran ahead of many Republicans Senators in the recent election.
There may be a voluntary recess in the manner you described, however. Senator Thune has already said that it was on the table if Democrats block their nominees.
What possible case is there for that? He’s telling everyone who his nominees are going to be: if he can persuade Senate Republicans that they’re acceptable, why not just confirm them?
In practice, Trump could murder and dismember Mike Johnson's children on live TV, and they would find an excuse to support him. What fucking planet are you living on?
In practice, you get off imagining that your political enemies are comically bad people. But that says nothing about them, it just tells us about you.
you get off imagining that your political enemies are comically bad people
Brett "here come the camps" continues to top himself in delivering the lest self-aware comments possible.
I don't lightly call someone a dumbass,¹ but "political enemies"? Trump himself said that he could murder someone on 5th avenue and it wouldn't cost him any support.
And it's the one thing he said that was true. Trump did try to have them murdered on J6, and they acted concerned for a few days and then shrugged and said never mind, all is forgiven. You live in a complete and utter fantasy world where Trump hasn't owned the balls of every Republican politician from the moment he beat Hillary in 2016. None have opposed him on anything from that moment. It would not cost Trump a single GOP vote in Congress on anything — any nomination, any piece of legislation — if he forced a recess. They would express concern, and then blame it on the Democrats, and move on.
¹This is a lie; I call people dumbasses all the time.
On top of all of Trump's other qualities, he can read the minds of his 78 million followers. And when he says he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and not lose a single follower he is to be taken seriously due to his amazing future-telling capabilities.
"Trump did try to have them murdered on J6."
Didn't know you also had special powers of reading minds.
When you serve on a criminal jury, if you did/ever do, do you intend to automatically vote not guilty on every count on the grounds that assessing whether the defendant had the requisite mens rea requires "reading minds"?
David,
With that post you have gone off blind irrational. You are merely projecting.
Don,
First, David was obviously speaking figuratively.
Second, there is truth there. Trump supporters forgive and excuse anything he does, or claim it never happened, or that Woodrow Wilson did something just like it (almost) so what's the big deal? And that covers some highly egregious conduct. I have never seen his supporters criticize him for never-ending lies, multiple bankruptcies, for routinely stiffing creditors, for the behavior described on the "Access Hollywood" tapes, or anything else.
Maybe there is some misconduct that would cause them to turn their back on him, but I don't know what it is.
bernard11 — Do not overlook that among Trump’s most powerful supporters he numbers a corrupt Supreme Court majority. Potential for chaotically inconsistent jurisprudence—tuned to partisan case outcomes—has to be be reckoned among the nation’s likely challenges.
Even if the Court intends to skirt the precipice, expect Trump to expect the contrary. Trump counts on the Court to follow him over the edge. Trump will arrange a torrent of death threats to target any justice who disappoints him.
The Court will get tested not just on loyalty to Trump’s ambitions, but also on willingness to thwart politically popular MAGA-style transgressions while they happen. Do you suppose this Court will embrace doing that? Why would anyone expect the Court wields power sufficient to check Trump effectively?
Brett…Yes. I don’t think there is a plan. This is an academic exercise.
Now the voluntary recess. That is different. The Senate makes their own decisions independent of the POTUS, and can adjourn. That would allow for the recess appointment, in theory. That said…
This is a terrible idea. Ed Whelan wrote as much. I would not do it because one day (sooner than anyone thinks), the shoe will be on the other foot.
If Team D did it, would you be good with it?
Setting precedent aside, the conservatives in Canning all believed that recess appointments were only appropriate to fill vacancies that occured during the recess. It seems like Dems could undercut Trump's argument by simply vacating early. I struggle to see how the Court would follow Canning again given its current composition.
What we can be sure of is that if Trump does attempt a slew of recess appointments - including Matt "Bring on the Nubiles" Gaetz, and Tulsi "La Putinesca" Gabbard" - Trumpists here will defend both the tactic and the appointments. They can't help it. The thrall is too strong.
For those who are interested, Polymarket currently has the following odds :
1. Trump to formally nominate Gaetz - 76%
2. Gaetz to be Attorney General - 48%
3. Gaetz to be confirmed as Attorney General - 30%
which allows us to compute some other rough odds :
4. Trump and/or Gaetz folds pre Jan 20, with or without some deal with Thune - 24%
5. Senate Recess - at least 18% (ie they can have a recess without Gaetz beng recess appointed, but not the other way round)
I'm still surprised at how high the odds are on Gaetz being confirmed, especially since it only takes 2 GOP Noes, on top of Collins and Murkowski.
There are not many people who know the DOJ, FBI bureaucracy better than Rep Gaetz. If you watch him on CSPAN, over time, the depth of his knowledge of who the DC bureaucrats are, is very evident. Whoever crossed swords with him in those hearings...well the Chinese have a curse about living in interesting times. 🙂
I find it helpful to look at things in terms of goals. What's the goal of POTUS Trump wrt DOJ, FBI? Answer: Right-sizing (which means different things to different people)
While it will be strictly business, both Pres Trump and Rep Gaetz have personal experiences with the DOJ, FBI that undoubtedly motivate them. Greatly. Were I a bureaucrat in the DOJ, FBI....I would update my resume because if it isn't Rep Gaetz, it will be someone else with the same goal. That DOJ, FBI bureaucracy is about to be shaken, not stirred. It needs it.
It could take the form of a MOAB...Mother Of All Buyouts.
Let’s said aside, for the moment, concerns about Gaetz’s character (reviews of which from those who know seem to be pretty universally negative, from every political orientation). You’ve spoken positively a few times about Gaetz’s intelligence. I think I’ve followed him reasonably closely, and everything I’ve seen seems to suggest that he’s fairly stupid. Can you point me to an example of something you’ve seen that you feel illustrates his superior capabilities?
1. The FBI is part of DOJ.
2. What does it mean to you? How many people should DOJ employ? What should they be doing differently? And why do you expect Gaetz to be well suited to answer these questions?
Nas…Don’t make the mistake of underestimating people. Rep Gaetz is many things, stupid is not among them. After 8 years in DC, Rep Gaetz understands the DC bureaucracy, and more importantly, knows who they are.
Far be it for me to tell Pres Elect Trump what he should do with the DOJ, and the FBI (Yes, I know that on the org chart, FBI rolls up to DOJ). I would anticipate an aggressive ‘right sizing’ of DC-based DOJ (non-FBI) employees, not less than 1/3rd and quite possibly half. I don’t expect the FBI to remain in it’s current form, Nas. I expect it will be broken up (re-organized) into discrete departments, eliminating any FBI staff engaged in duplicative or overlapping missions of other federal departments, and not based in DC.
The FISA Court needs to be addressed as well. Topic for another time.
I'd wager a lot of houses in Northern VA will be coming onto the market by summer of next year, might be a good time to find a bargain.
I would anticipate an aggressive ‘right sizing’ of DC-based DOJ (non-FBI) employees, not less than 1/3rd and quite possibly half.
Mind sharing why you think this would be desirable? Is your opinion based on some information you have about DOJ, or just your instincts?
There are certainly plenty of stupid people who have been in D.C. a lot longer than eight years and who don’t have any particular insight into that. Again, you seem to have some specific episodes in mind that have impressed you—can you point me towards an example or two?
Obviously I’m not expecting Trump (or Gaetz) to particularly care what you think. Nor do I imagine they care what I think! I’m interested in your opinion.
Do you think that would be a good thing to do? If so why? Can you give some sense of which DOJ components you think are too large?
1. Do you think that would be a good thing? If so, why? Why do you think Gaetz would be well-positioned to figure out how to do that?
2. Obviously that would require legislation. Do you think this is a good start to getting that passed?
3. Less than a year ago, Trump said, “ The FBI Headquarters should not be moved to a far away location, but should stay right where it is, in a new and spectacular building, in the best location in our now crime ridden and filthy dirty, graffiti scarred, Capitol. They should be involved in bringing back D.C., not running away from it, especially the violent crime. An important part of my platform for President is to bring back, restore, and rebuild Washington, D.C., into the “crown jewel” of our Nation. We will make it crime free and GREAT AGAIN. The FBI should not be fleeing for safer, yet much less convenient, environs. It should make where they are now the safest place on earth! DON’T MOVE THE FBI!”
Why don’t you believe him?
Nas...The one thing I see very smart people do consistently is underestimate others. You seem really invested in the 'Gaetz is an idiot' canard. Disabuse yourself of that notion. How? Spend 8-12 hours watching Rep Gaetz CSPAN and Timcast; see for yourself, Rep Gaetz speaks extemporaneously in those settings. He is very colorful and controversial; neither of those attributes are disqualifying. But do your homework first.
You also seem very invested in maintaining the status quo wrt DOJ, FBI. My personal opinion is the DC-based DOJ org needs a massive 'right-sizing'; it is the size of the entrenched DC-based bureaucracy that is a problem, along with their leadership. Having fewer of them to deal with makes the problem more manageable. Whether it is an incredibly generous buyout (2 wks per year of service, capped at 52 weeks; no payout of unused sick or vacay) in a RIF, or physical relocation of the position to a field office (no relocation assistance offered) outside the DC metro area, or both; reducing the number of DC-based DOJ bureaucrats is a must do. Gaetz knows who the bureaucrats are; I can understand why DOJ is freaking out. I simply repeat; it is a very heavy lift for Senator Thune to get 51 votes (his first test, I think).
Legislation...Team R has a unified Congress for 2 years. While I am absolutely certain that Team R would warmly welcome Team D's constructive participation in the legislative drafting process, Team D participation is not required.
I simply disagree with POTUS Trump about the FBI HQ. Perhaps keep the building, but empty it of people. And I would recommend abolishing the FISA Court, outright; it is nothing but a rubber stamp for the FBI, NSA, CIA to surveil Americans in plain violation of their 4A rights.
This recess appointment thing...nah, not a fan. I don't want the shoe on the other foot.
While I am absolutely certain that Team R would warmly welcome Team D’s constructive participation in the legislative drafting process
Rofl, we're enemies of the state, remember? The best way for Ds to kill legislation for the next couple of years will be to wholeheartedly endorse it.
No, I don't remember = Democrats being enemy of the state
So your short term memory is shot?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-democrats-enemies-within-rcna175628
I don't think Gaetz is an idiot, and it's my general opinion - based on experiences in Britain, that politicians are usually smarter than we give them credit for. (Note the "usually".)
But Gaetz is flatly unqialified at a number of levels, and your desire to continue to grind the libs' faces in the dust post-election in order to defend this preposterous nomination is both sad and amusing. Just because someone is very intelligent is not itself a qualification, though given the GOP's hostility to expertise, a position you have adopted by implication, in many situations high intelligence would be regarded as actively disqualifying.
I know I’m late to this post and probably no one will see this, but here’s my problem with the reading: if the clause only applies to special sessions, why would the president adjourn a special session to such future time? The special session ends when adjourned; they return when their next regularly scheduled session begins. The adjournment clause only makes sense in reference to regular sessions.
Jimmy Carter: Made 68 recess appointments.
Ronald Reagan: Made 240 recess appointments.
George H. W. Bush: Made 77 recess appointments.
Bill Clinton: Made 139 recess appointments.
George W. Bush: Made 171 recess appointments.
Barack Obama: Made 32 recess appointments.