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Help Workers By Breaking Down Barriers to Labor Mobility
Labor Day is the right time to remember that we can make workers vastly better off by empowering more of them to vote with their feet, both within countries and through international migration.

Each Labor Day since 2021, 2022, I wrote posts explaining how breaking down barriers to labor mobility can help many millions of workers around the world. Virtually everything in last year's post is just as relevant today. So I am reprinting it with some updates and modifications:
Today is Labor Day. As usual, there is much discussion of what can be done to help workers. But few focus on the one type of reform that is likely to help more poor and disadvantaged workers than virtually anything else: increasing labor mobility. In the United States and around the world, far too many workers are trapped in places where it is difficult or impossible for them to ever escape poverty. They could vastly improve their lot if allowed to "vote with their feet" by moving to locations where there are better job opportunities. That would also be an enormous boon to the rest of society.
Internationally, the biggest barriers condemning millions to lives of poverty and oppression are immigration restrictions. Economists estimate that eliminating legal barriers to migration throughout the world would roughly double world GDP - in other words, making the world twice as productive as it is now. A person who has the misfortune of being born in Cuba or Venezuela, Zimbabwe or Afghanistan, is likely condemned to lifelong poverty, no matter how talented or hardworking he or she may be. If they are allowed to move to a freer society with better economic institutions, they can almost immediately double or triple their income and productivity. And that doesn't consider the possibility of improving job skills, which is also likely to be more feasible in their new home than in their country of origin.
The vast new wealth created by breaking down migration barriers would obviously benefit migrants themselves. But it also creates enormous advantages for receiving-country natives, as well. They benefit from cheaper and better products, increased innovation, and the establishment of new businesses (which immigrants create at higher rates than natives). Immigrants also contribute disproportionately to scientific and medical innovation, such as the MRNA Covid-19 vaccines, that have already saved many thousands of lives around the world.
Similar, though somewhat less extreme, barriers to labor mobility also harm workers within the United States. Exclusionary zoning prevents many millions of Americans - particularly the poor and working class - from moving to areas where they could find better job opportunities and thereby increase their wages and standard of living. Recent evidence suggests that the problem is even worse than scholars previously thought. Occupational licensing further exacerbates the problem, by making it difficult for workers in many industries to move from one state to another.
Breaking down barriers to labor mobility is an oft-ignored common interest of poor minorities (most of whom are Democrats), and the increasingly Republican white working class. Both groups could benefit from increased opportunity to move to places where there are more and better jobs and educational opportunities available.
As with lowering immigration restrictions, breaking down domestic barriers to labor mobility would create enormous benefits for society as a whole, as well as the migrants themselves. Economists estimate that cutting back on exclusionary zoning would greatly increase economic growth. Like international migrants, domestic ones can be more productive and innovative if given the opportunity to move to places where they can make better use of their talents.
Many proposals to help workers have a zero-sum quality. They involve attempts to forcibly redistribute wealth from employers, investors, consumers, or some combination of all three. Given that virtually all workers are also consumers, and many also have investments (e.g. - through their retirement accounts), zero-sum policies that help them in one capacity often harm them in another. Breaking down barriers to labor mobility, by contrast, is a positive-sum game that creates massive benefits for both workers and society as a whole; it similarly benefits both migrants and natives.
Some on the left point out that, if investors are allowed to move capital freely, workers should be equally free to move, as well. It is indeed true that, thanks to government policies restricting labor mobility, investment capital is generally more mobile than labor. It is also true that the restrictions on labor mobility are deeply unjust. In many cases, they trap people in poverty simply because of arbitrary circumstances of birth, much as racial segregation and feudalism once did. The inequality between labor and capital, and the parallels with segregation and feudalism should lead progressives to put a higher priority on increasing labor mobility.
At the same time, it is worth recognizing that investors and employers, as a class, are likely to benefit from increased labor mobility, too. Increased productivity and innovation create new investment opportunities. The biggest enemies of both workers and capitalists are not each other, but the combination of nativists and NIMBYs who erect barriers to freedom of movement, thereby needlessly impoverishing labor and capital alike. Despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, even current homeowners often have much to gain from curbing exclusionary zoning policies that block the construction of housing needed by workers seeking to move to the region.
On the right, conservatives who value meritocracy and reject racial and ethnic preferences, would do well to recognize that few policies are so anti-meritocratic as barriers to mobility. The case for ending them also has much in common with the case for color-blind government policies, more generally. A number of other conservative values also reinforce the case for curbing both domestic NIMBYism and immigration restrictions.
Obviously, there are those who argue against increasing labor mobility, either on the grounds that existing communities have an inherent right to exclude newcomers, or because allowing them to come would have various negative side-effects. I address these types of arguments here, and in much greater detail in Chapters 5 and 6 of my book Free to Move: Foot Voting, Migration, and Political Freedom. As I explain in those earlier publications, nearly all such objections are wrong, overblown, or can be ameliorated by "keyhole solutions" that are less draconian than exclusion. In addition, the vast new wealth created by breaking down barriers to mobility can itself be used to help address any potential negative effects. In the book, I also push back against claims that mobility should be restricted for the benefit of those "left behind" in migrants' communities of origin.
In recent years, there has been important progress on both expanding immigration and reducing exclusionary zoning. Several states have also enacted occupational licensing reform, which facilitates freedom of movement between states. But there is much room for further improvement on all these fronts. Moreover, especially when it comes to restrictions on international migration, we could easily get regression, rather than progress over the next few years. Unfortunately, we have to protect against backsliding, as well as promote improvement.
Workers of the world, unite to demand more freedom of movement!
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‘Internationally, the biggest barriers condemning millions to lives of poverty and oppression are immigration restrictions’.
NOT their own institutions, cultures, or governments for wealth creation or redistribution at home? HOW did Ilya establish this? How was this quantified?
Why would anyone, particularly in developed countries, care about a mere doubling of GDP—especially if it doesn’t actually benefit the majority of the population?
What are the socio-economic impacts of mass immigration of illiterate third-worlders upon developed countries, particularly immigrants from cultures that are hostile to Western values?
‘Both groups could benefit from increased opportunity to move to places where there are more and better jobs and educational opportunities available’.
Why not just educate those local poor people rather than import third-worlders? Why would the local poor bother to move if they have good reason to believe that employers will prefer the immigrants based for identity reasons?
‘On the right, conservatives who value meritocracy and reject racial and ethnic preferences, would do well to recognize that few policies are so anti-meritocratic as barriers to mobility’.
Somin means libertarians, not conservatives. More importantly, he just begs the question that open mobility of BASICALLY ANYONE is meritocratic at all. If countries screened the migrants at the border for existing talent and potential, then, perhaps you could have semblance of a meritocracy claim. But dumping millions of unskilled illiterate labourers into developed countries TO DO shit work isn’t meritocratic at all.
How much longer can Somin’s superficial bullshit persist? Does he realize that he’s replaced the religion of his fathers with economic dogma? Does he even care that his work doesn’t make sense, or is it just a day job for him? Does he not care that his ideas are demonstrably bad and harmful to America? Why doesn’t he just go back to Russia? Is Tankie really just in America to subvert and destroy it?
That's right, Somin's ideas do not make sense, and are demonstrably bad and harmful to America. He is a Russian agent of anti-American propaganda.
"A person who has the misfortune of being born in Cuba or Venezuela, Zimbabwe or Afghanistan, is likely condemned to lifelong poverty, no matter how talented or hardworking he or she may be."
His policies are not good for those countries either. It would be must better if the talented hardworkers in those countries stayed there, and improved those countries.
In Ilya’s mind and that of other not very bright or malicious people. Bad aspects of countries and cultures is stuff that just mysteriously emanates entirely from the rocks and trees of countries like juju rather than coming from the people themselves.
Commenter whose entire online persona is hostile to Western values says what?
The illegal alien is a thief and should be treated as such.
Cattle rustlers and horse thieves were hung -- and so should illegal aliens, for the same reasons.
You are destroying America, Ilya....
Perhaps he wants to reduce illegal immigration by making legal immigration significantly easier. Do you have a problem with that?
Yes. Legalizing the invaders would make the problem worse, and hasten the destruction of America.
Or it may restore the US by providing a younger workforce hence supporting Social Security, and by keeping inflation of groceries low owing to low labour costs.
Or did you mean the destruction of 'Murica?
"low labour [sic] costs. "
We are well aware you want low wage serfs.
Unclear why you think its a good thing.
We are well aware you want low wage serfs.
It isn't a good thing to have "low wage serfs." What do you propose that we do about the ones we already have?
Buy them plane or bus tickets back to their homes
You can't support your social security by important net cost, low-skilled labour.
Why don't you recognise that you desperately NEED outsiders because they DON'T believe what you believe, in terms of the most basic aspects of social life?
And if the social welfare apparatuses fail for want of sufficient higher-income tax payers, why would SELF-STYLED 'classical liberals' and 'libertarians' care---that is, unless their real politics aren't what they claim them to be?
Go back to Russia.
They are no more thieves than your own ancestors coming here were, assuming you aren’t native American (and even then they slowly expanded to get their own place to live!)
They don’t come to steal. They don’t come to “steal” government benefits. They come to live free and make a beter life for themselves.
Instead of riding on xenophobia by a loutish barker, do what southern state Republicans do, and make inroads.
Then Republicans would win more, and can stop Democrats from winning and wrecking the whole benefit of a free country: the freedom to run your own business without crushing corruption getting in the way.
Dr. Ed fantasizes about murdering people; must be a day ending in 'y'.
Editor's Note: we do not in fact execute thieves.
Sane person's note: illegal aliens are not, in fact, thieves. (Of course, an individual illegal alien could be, just as citizen Donald Trump is. But illegal aliens are not as a class thieves.)
Please note: Reason was created as a Libertarian magazine, but the underlying focus is on open borders. As such, it is anti-nationalist, and thus anti-American. Which is why you get an article on immigration on a Supreme Court blog - nothing is more important, and they'll fit in open borders propaganda any chance they get.
If what was wanted was entrepreneurs who could create jobs and pay taxes, then they'd push to lock down the border and create more legal immigration for already-talented young people, not illiterates and criminals from the Third World. Europeans with skills and ambition have to play the Greed Card lottery, while tribal people walk over the border with Reason approval.
This is a great blog, and I check it every day. The immigration talk I ignore.
Among Libertarians, there is a big split between the anti-American open borders advocates, and the Mises faction. This year the Libertarian Party nominated someone who pushes open borders. The idea is that once they turn USA into a Third World country, they will restore equilibrium to the world, because no one will want to come here anymore.
"Which is why you get an article on immigration on a Supreme Court blog"
I think you meant to leave this comment on another blog. The VC isn't, and has never been, a Supreme Court blog; nor is it under the editorial control of Reason. It actually used to be hosted by the Washington Post, and before that lived at volokh.com. I think you're thinking of something else, possibly something that only exists in your mind.
As such, it is anti-nationalist, and thus anti-American
Rubes can repeat this kind of thing as much as they like, but power hungry folk telling you nationalism is a good thing, so they can gain power, is still a load of BS, 80 years after a war to defeat it. It is not a loose synonym for (well-deserved) patriotism. Politicians who stand there and say, “It’s not a dirty word!”, as some bizarre virtue signalling, are just incredulous.
Please note: this post has nothing to do with Reason; it is an independent blog hosted at Reason's website. (It is also not a "Supreme Court blog.")
Also please note: the "but" in Frum's sentence makes no sense. Open borders is a core libertarian value; therefore, "so" would be a more appropriate conjunction than "but."
It is anti-nationalist, which makes it both libertarian and pro-American; America was founded on so-called "open borders."
But libertarians believe that markets, not governments, are the best way to allocate resources — which includes labor. So we don't think that the government should be trying to decide which types of immigrants, and how many of each type, should be allowed into the country. Creating jobs is good. So is working in those jobs.
And… there it is. Just as there's an overwhelming correlation between being "anti-Zionist" and being antisemitic, there is an overwhelming correlation between being anti-immigration and being racist.
Good old Ilya; he never disappoints.
"Every year on Labor Day, I write the same open borders column I do twice a week for the rest of the year."
So how does bringing in millions of competitors for low skilled jobs help the native born low skilled workers?
The lump of labor fallacy simply will not die, ever, will it?
It's almost as unkillable as the "Demand curves don't have negative slopes" fallacy.
Lots of people believe the lump of labor, not too many go for upward-sloping demand curves.
Of course, from the POV of a small producer in a competitive market, they don't slope down, but are flat. That's no fallacy.
Question for those who oppose open borders because it creates.competition for low skilled American workers: do you see this as a two way street in which you also make it harder to send American jobs overseas through tax penalties, tariffs, and regulation? It seems to me that if the concern is American workers, keeping immigrants out only fixes half the problem. Keeping their jobs here in the first place is the other half.
Competition for low wage workers is just one reason be against open borders, and probably not even among the top five reasons. Open borders are bad for the USA is many ways.
Can you list some?
It brings in criminals, drug dealers and the mentally ill.
We are now dealing with third world problems such as bedbugs and TB because of open borders.
But worst of all, it has made labor fungible and created a division between those who work for the government and those who don't.
SHOOT THE TRESPASSERS!!!!!
And the SHOOT THEM AGAIN.
“SHOOT THE TRESPASSERS!!!!!
And the SHOOT THEM AGAIN.”
Have you ever reflected on how or why you got this way? You are not well. I pray you get help before you harm yourself or others
Wrong. He's perfectly fine and woken up. Righteous anger is the appropriate response to what's being done to his country, and to the world.
Are you even remotely ready for what's coming?
Some of the people are dark-skinned; that's what Roger hates. Well, them and Jews.
" harder to send American jobs overseas "
Of course. Our misnamed "free" trade has been destructive.
Our misnamed “free” trade has been destructive.
Not what the research shows.
Evidently you're anti-capitalism.
'The' research.
Therefore you must be anti-capitalism.
Ha!
Go back to Russia, Tankie.
Our imperfect free trade has been overwhelmingly beneficial to the United States. It would certainly be better if we imposed fewer restrictions, but it's still been great for the country.
Opposition to free trade is the result of the influence of the dead idea of mercantilism — the notion that the goal of a country is to accumulate the most money — which is itself the product of the fallacy of zero-sum thinking.
It's been overwhelmingly beneficial to the wealthy. The poor and middle class have largely been left behind.
Cheap electronics and small American flags are both made in Chine bounties for all socioeconomic classes to enjoy in this day and age.
It's true that there has been a shift toward the wealthy since 1989.
in 1989 the top 1% held 23% of the country's wealth, while the bottom 90% held 39.1%.
In Q1 of 2024 the numbers were 30.4% and 33% respectively.
Of course that doesn't reflect dollar amounts, which were $4.66T (top 1%) and $8T (bottom 90%) in 1989, going to $46.18T and $50.06T in Q1 2024.
How much of that shift is due to free trade or other factors - tax changes, technology, etc. - is not an easy question to answer.
My general take on this is that the growth of income inequality is a bad thing, but one of many aspects of the economy and so sometimes a cost you pay. (though I do think we ignore it too much, see above re: billionaires).
And like some other economic indicators (inflation, debt, GDP delta, etc), there’s a threshold beyond which it becomes a more fundamental civic problem.
Thanks Bill Clinton! Thanks for getting rid of it Obama! Thanks to you too, Biden!
Keep dumping scores of millions of unskilled poor into the country, scream that 'no one is illegal', frame all opposition to it as simply being a function of 'xenophobia', and pretend that you care actually give a shit about the middle class, the working class, and the poorest Americans.
No, really. Keep doing it. It will ONLY HELP to get younger Americans to NEVER believe you or your blue team ever again. It will only exacerbate your 'democratic' crisis. It will help to show the world what you REALLY are.
So instead of sending manufacturing jobs overseas we just bring the foreign workers to the USA to take the jobs? And we get the added benefit of subsidizing these immigrants with welfare and other government aid? How about instead instituting economic policies that encourage manufacturers to stay in the USA?
Manufacturers do stay in the USA. U.S. manufacturing output continues to set record highs.
Current manufacturing is still below 2019 levels.
Welcome to Perot-Buchanan-Trump territory.
Now, ask YOURSELF: since the American blue team abandoned this with Clinton in 1992, and since many younger blue team members are further to the left, how long can the blue team establishment keep up their espoused (hypocritical policies) without looking like villains in the eyes of many of their own younger voters?
Oh, if I had the power to go back in time to 1992 and give the Democrats advice, there’s a long list of things I’d tell them to do different. Nobody is claiming that every Democratic policy in the past 30 years has worked perfectly. And keep in mind that most congressional Democrats opposed globalization; Clinton got it by triangulating with Republicans.
But that said, the Democrats are still better for young people than the Republicans. Young people may have been left high and dry by globalization, but the difference is the GOP is happy to leave them there. The Democrats want to implement policies that will actually help them.
With what money?
With a reversal of all those GOP tax cuts for the rich, for starters.
I would accept that if it came with spending cuts and a balanced budget. It won't. It will just be an argument of (intake * X%) = how much we can borrow this year, yay the tax increases increased X, and so we can borrow even more after the tax increases. Proof? American history.
Forget serious spending cuts. Never happen.
Tax increases have a chance.
We don't actually need a balanced budget, and an Amendment to require that would be a disaster, though we could stand to reduce the deficit somewhat.
You realize your own comment is self-contradictory, not just also false, yeah? Yours is also the free trade, the mass illegal immigration, and the global cultural imperialism party. Your blue team is a disaster for America, and for the world.
You may be able to still fool your fellow Americans, but no one else these days.
More of this bullshit. Yes. The immigration system is broken. That is still no excuse to fail to secure our borders. Every time a fix is brought up, it is shot down by the Democrats. Prove me wrong.
Every time a fix is brought up, it is shot down by the Democrats. Prove me wrong.
Well that was easy.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-republicans-block-border-security-bill-campaign-border-chaos-rcna153607
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-republicans-knife-bipartisan-border-security-bill-declaring-dea-rcna137572
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That's not a fix.
Not a perfect fix, but at least an attempt - and runs directly contrary to jimbo's narrative.
5000 illegal aliens per day ( 1.8 million per year) is not an attempt to secure the border. Hell Obama DHS Secretary said 1000 a day was a crisis.
Judging by votes, the GOP don't want the border fixed, as long as there's political capital to be gained by blaming the Democrats for not fixing it.
Letting in 5000 illegals a day is not a fix.
The bill also included more money to process the illegal aliens into the USA faster and would have required any legal challenges to provisions of the bill to be heard only in the DC circuit court. Just a terrible bill.
Process them to a firing squad.
They don't belong here and we need to either make them leave or kill them. Their choice.
Did the Democrats ever bring up HR 2 for a vote? The House passed it in May of 2023 which was passed well before the so-called "bipartisan" border control bill. Did the Democrats hold any hearings on it even? Or did they bury it and never let it see the light of day?
Kind of hypocritical to complain that the Republicans didn't vote on the so-called "bipartisan" border bill when the the Democrats wouldn't even hold hearings on HR2 that passed the House.
"It's hypocritical to support a bipartisan bill when one didn't previously support a purely partisan one," said no reasonable person.
It’s not even an imperfect fix: It’s giving a safe cracker a $1.50 padlock from Target to put on your safe, if he feels like it. But he’s the safe cracker: If he didn’t intend to break into your safe you wouldn’t need the padlock, and you already know that he’s not going to use it.
The problem is not a lack of laws. The problem is a President who doesn’t want the border secured. What's the point in more laws for him to ignore?
The pro-Trump border patrol endorsed it.
The National Border Patrol Council, you mean? As opposed to the actual border patrol agents, who are Trump supporters.
"In addition, the vast new wealth created by breaking down barriers to mobility can itself be used to help address any potential negative effects."
In theory, could be. In practice, won't be.
For once I agree with Brett. Trickle down economics is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated. Since Reagan, we've seen the most massive transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy in history. It doesn't trickle down; it accumulates at the top.
Maybe more tax cuts for billionaires isn't such a hot idea either.
With the exception of housing, discussed on this site at length, you can buy more, cheaper, better stuff than ever before. That is your measurement, not the stock price of corporations serving almost an entire, opened planet nowadays, instead of the US and Europe.
That’s not inconsistent with there having been a massive wealth transfer to the rich. Yes, you can buy lots of great stuff, if you can afford it, which may mean working three jobs.
Historically, the rise in income inequality didn't start with 'trickle down economics', it started with the borders being reopened, prior to Reagan.
Read up on the 'Great Compression'; It's a period of unusually low income inequality in the US. It started when we closed our borders, and ended when we reopened them with the 1965 immigration act.
Look, the wealthy OWN the companies that are making all that money. They only share that money with the workers to the extent they have to.
And what forces them to share it? Labor shortages. Labor being a scarce resource that businesses are forced to pay through the nose for. Make labor plentiful, and labor becomes cheap, like any other plentiful input into production.
There are basically only two ways for the masses to be wealthy, really: Either they have to own the means of production, (Not the government owning them, the people themselves, as individuals!) or their labor has to be a critical and limited input into production.
In the long run, it will only be ownership that leads to wealth, because automation is displacing human labor. But, of course, we don't live in the long run, and right now, if you want low income inequality, you need to stop the importation of labor.
Increased automation means there will be fewer and fewer low skilled jobs until the day comes when there aren't enough of them to go around, immigrants or no immigrants. The days when any reasonably competent person who wants to work could find a job may be nearing an end. And people who can't find jobs are not going to meekly starve to death just because the wealthy don't like paying taxes.
Your version of capitalism -- there are different strains of capitalism -- worked, up to a point, under certain conditions that are either dead or dying. At some point a new model is going to have to take its place.
“Increased automation means there will be fewer and fewer low skilled jobs until the day comes when there aren’t enough of them to go around, immigrants or no immigrants.”
With “low skilled” being a moving target, too. But why make things worse for low skilled Americans in the meantime?
“Your version of capitalism — there are different strains of capitalism — worked, up to a point, under certain conditions that are either dead or dying. At some point a new model is going to have to take its place.”
I’d certainly agree, except for the “your version” part.
My opinion is that, ultimately, everybody needs to become a capitalist, to own some of the means of production, because human labor is going to become a negligible input to production within, if not my lifetime, at least my son’s lifetime, and if you’re not doing anything that’s necessary to produce wealth, why the hell would you expect to get part of it? Just because you’re above room temperature? Like that’s any entitlement.
Here, read this (short) essay. It’s pretty much is what I think.
Accomplishing everybody being a "capitalist" is absolutely going to require some legal/regulatory changes, because that is decidedly NOT the current trend.
You might be interested in this, too:
The Economics of the Robot Revolution
I've been thinking about this stuff for decades now, it's been obvious since the middle of the last century, if you thought about it, that we'd need to find some way to replace human labor as a basis for distribution of wealth, because human labor was on its way out. See Vonnegut's Player Piano, for instance; People have realized it for longer than I've been alive.
The only plausible approach is for everybody to own a piece of the productive infrastructure that's going to replace human labor shortly.
"And people who can’t find jobs are not going to meekly starve to death just because the wealthy don’t like paying taxes."
Yeah, threats like that won't work in the long run, because once production is totally decoupled from human labor, you can also produce war machines. "Feed me or else" is not a long term solution.
Your proposed solutions have some good ideas and some of it I even agree with. And there are other possible solutions as well.
From a conservative/libertarian point of view, though, the real problem is that no solution that will actually fix the problem can be implemented without divesting the uber-rich of some of their billions. I'm still more of a capitalist than I am anything else. That said, what is completely unsustainable is having a tiny fraction of the population with more money than the entire bottom half. That cannot continue indefinitely. And I just can't work myself up to weeping for some poor billionaire who would have to live on a paltry five billion instead of fifty billion; oh the humanity.
As for building a war machine, a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan managed to defeat both the Soviet and the American war machines. Hamas has the current Israeli government tied in knots. You don't need to be a big war machine; you only need to be able to gum up the works of the major powers' war machines.
", the real problem is that no solution that will actually fix the problem can be implemented without divesting the uber-rich of some of their billions."
I don't think that's true. Stock ownership is wide spread, and could become more widespread. The problem is that current tax law encourages companies to retain profits internally, instead of paying out dividends. So that in order to profit from stock ownership, unless you have a special class of stock, you have to divest yourself of the stock.
I think some tax law changes are in order, also rather more strict enforcement of fiduciary duties on the part of management, so that profits actually get distributed to stockholders in general, rather than just a special class of stockholders and upper management.
But, ultimately, you can not expect people to get perpetual income streams if they're not contributing to the creation of that income. That's just parasitism.
It’s not parasitism if there are no jobs available.
I would favor changing the tax laws to incentivize the spending of money by the wealthy, which benefits the economy. That would include both companies paying out dividends, and also individuals with significant assets. They can either put it into the economy or into the US treasury. Not to the point where Elon Musk would have to live on ramen noodles and boxed mac and cheese, but to the point where there’s enough to take care of those at the bottom too.
And even apart from taking care of those at the bottom, there's a long list of things that could be done with more tax revenue from the wealthy. We could fix our infrastructure. We could pay down at least some of the national debt. We could have better schools. Once upon a time our schools and public works and space program was the envy of the world; not since the GOP discovered tax cuts for the rich.
Nothing proves that markets are not a perfect meritocracy like the existence of billionaires.
More money than anyone is worth, or could need, or can really be understood. And which lends itself to abuse.
Does that mean government should appropriate the wealth? No, for a number of reasons.
But don't pretend this is something to be lauded and not a sign of a resource allocation policy problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/03/all-billionaires-under-30-have-inherited-their-wealth-research-finds
"All of the world’s billionaires younger than 30 inherited their wealth."
"Nothing proves that markets are not a perfect meritocracy like the existence of billionaires."
Says everybody who's not a billionaire...
Actually, markets don't have to be perfect meritocracies, in order to be better meritocracies than planned economies.
In what sense is your wealth your own, whether you're a billionaire or a thousandaire, if you're not allowed to give it to somebody else? Why this default assumption that, if you don't think somebody is entitled to what they have, the government is entitled to it?
"All the billionaires too young to have had time to have become billionaires on their own inherited their wealth, news at 11."
Markets are not a meritocracy in any meaningful sense of the term. Your success in life depends in part on your own efforts, but it also depends on who your parents are (you think Elon Musk would have done as well had his mother been a crack whore in Harlem?), what resources are available to you (were you able to get into Harvard?), the connections you are able to make, etc. etc. etc. There are billionaires of inherited wealth who are barely competent to flip burgers, and poor people who with better opportunities would be rich themselves. Which is why taxing wealth doesn't bother my conscience in the least.
Markets are meaningfully meritocratic, they're just not perfectly so.
And so what if they're not perfectly so, if we don't have any real world mechanism that's actually more meritocratic?
I favor meritocracy in which people start off on a level playing field, or at least they do to the extent practicable. If an Appalachian meth orphan needs extra help I favor giving it to him. And if someone born with a silver spoon in his mouth has far more than he could ever possibly spend, I also favor using some of it to help the meth orphan get ahead.
Harrison Bergeron is not an instruction manual.
Incredible excluded middle, Brett.
Being born to a wealthy family is not a merit.
"Being born to a wealthy family is not a merit."
I already said that the free market isn't a perfect meritocracy. It's probably as close to perfect meritocracy as is consistent with enough human liberty to avoid a totalitarian horror show, though.
People, human people, are going to expend their own resources to advantage their own children, meritocracy be damned. How are you planning on stopping that, and still respecting human rights at a level that wouldn't empower the people doing the stopping to be tyrants?
What policy do you think I'm pushing here? You're going after a strawman, because you've excluded the middle between billionaires as market failure and ensuring everyone must be exactly the same.
It might be an easier argument, but I'd recommend addressing what I'm talking about.
"What policy do you think I’m pushing here?"
I obviously have no idea, because you're generally very careful not to actually explicitly advocate any policy, which would risk people pointing out said policy's problems. Instead you just snipe other people.
Now, Krychek_2 at least advocates policies. He advocates redistributing wealth to enable people to get an equal start. A basic problem with that, (The violation of property rights I'm taken as a given; You don't advocate redistribution if you care about those.) is the assumption that, if you don't get equal outcomes, the start wasn't equal, and you need to do more redistributing. And the ever present temptation to start leveling down, instead; Leveling down is always easier, after all.
Actually, markets don’t have to be perfect meritocracies, in order to be better meritocracies than planned economies.
Those are not the only two choices, Brett. Markets do a lot of things well, but have some pathologies. You don't have to be an advocate of centrally planned economies to see that it is useful for the government to address those pathologies.
Yeah, basically what bernard11 said. I'm arguing against the extreme view you hold; that doesn't mean I must be for the extreme view on the opposite side.
Being careful not to make sweeping policy pronouncements is not some plot to make you have to pull out the telepathy and make up what I truly think.
As for building a war machine, a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan managed to defeat both the Soviet and the American war machines. Hamas has the current Israeli government tied in knots.
Neither one of these is really what's happening; we tried a rules-Afghanistan and now Gaza are now demonstrating that "avoid civilian casualties at all costs" doesn't really work, nor does the absurdity of feeding the enemy population. The USA, and Israel, need to fight wars more like FDR (fire bombing of Tokyo) and less like LBJ (hearts & minds). The US, similarly, should have flattened Afghanistan and been out in a couple of years. Tacitus might have disapproved of leaving a desert and calling it peace, but the reason you could call it peace is because it was peaceful afterwards.
You mean basically what Netanyahu just did to Gaza? Just go in and level the place? And how is that working out for Bibi?
I will grant that being civilized has its disadvantages, especially when your enemy isn't, but like it or not, we are civilized. At least until and unless civilization breaks down and we revert to Lord of the Flies.
That's exactly what Bibi is NOT doing-- Israel is being extremely restrained and careful to minimize civilian casualties, for an enemy that doesn't care about their own civilians (let alone yours). That's not working as well as I would like. This isn't even close to what the unrestrained of force would look like-- by now, they would have napalmed the entire surface and imposed a complete blockade. Instead they're being surgical and actively acting to send aid to Gaza, despite knowing Hamas has first dibs on everything that comes in. This is a pepsi challenge of trying to win a war while being extremely humanitarian at the same time and I'm not really optimistic so far. It's looking like Israel should simply break out the napalm. If you're troubled by that, then take it up with Hamas.
human labor was on its way out
I'm skeptical, just based on historically how many times this was promised for the latest tech.
Beyond how bad AI actually is at being intelligent so far, one of the virtues of capitalist systems is it's incredible at finding productive stuff for people of all skill sets to do.
I think the essay exaggerates the substitution of AI for human labor.
If you have a human-level AI based on computer technology, the cost to do what it can do will begin to decline at Moore’s Law rates. Even if an AI costs a million dollars in, say, 2020, it’ll be a thousand in 2030 and one dollar in 2040 (give or take a decade). Why hire a human when you can buy the equivalent for a dollar? To put it as simply as possible, you aren’t going to be able to make a living by working. You’re going to need to have some capital. Everybody’s going to need some capital.
Haven't we seen similar trends in computing costs over the past few decades, combined with an increase in ways they are applied? So let's hold off on these predictions, which have been around, and failed to prove out, for a very long time.
OTOH, I do agree it would be highly desirable for capital ownership to be much more widespread.
And since the blue team wants to keep up 'free' trade, mass illegal immigration, etc, you've finally seen the light and will therefore vote for Trump? (Because tax cuts for the rich is a pittance compared to the costs to the NATIONAL INTERESTS caused by an massive increase in the poor and illiterate, of exporting industrial jobs, etc.)
We have not. (How would that even work? The poor don't have money to transfer.)
David:
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
The pie isn't fixed. Increased income inequality (a good thing) does not mean that anyone is getting poorer, or that money is being transferred from the bottom to the top.
I may regret having asked this, but how is increasing income inequality a good thing?
I don't mean that it's good for its own sake, but for what it signifies. Inequality decreases when we have recessions; it increases when times are good.
I don't care about the workers of other countries and their problems, especially when my tax dollars are involved. There are enough problems in the USA.
That's the fundamental issue here: Somin always insists on approaching this from a perspective of universal utilitarianism: What policy would benefit the most people?
But if the Constitution didn't enact Spencer's Social Statistics, neither did it enact Rawls' A Theory of Justice. Our government doesn't exist to benefit the world! It exist to benefit US. Or else it has no excuse for existing in the first place.
Somin might be utilitarian if he considered the harms and weighed them against the benefits. Immigration has harms, to both the USA, and to the other countries. Somin refuses to recognize any of these harms, as a utilitarian would.
Utilitarians never take everything into account, it's impossible. That's the basic fallacy of utilitarianism: Nobody has the information or the capacity to actually calculate utility. They can't even answer if "utility" is scalar or a vector!
Really, it's just a metaphor gone metastatic.
Malarkey. Is Somin a major donor to Reason? If not, what is served by publishing his drivel?
I’m pretty sure Somin is just writing what he knows, and not intentionally, constantly, trying to troll y’all.
And that makes it the very, very best kind of trolling.
The less nativist folks let this thread cook for a bit and hooo boy.
Nativist:
"1. US
relating to or supporting the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.
"he has made his nativist beliefs known through his divisive comments about immigrants""
I've got no problem with being called a "nativist".
“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.”
And who are any government's chief victims? It's own citizens.
If any of this is to be justified, it must be in terms of benefits to those citizens, because government is horrible enough when you claim it's for the benefit of those subject to it. To be that horror for the benefit of somebody else? Inexcusable!
Of course, once somebody has been invited to be a citizens, they count as much as any other citizen, but the invitation must be on the basis that it benefits those already citizens, not them. Benefit or harm to non-citizens must be a side constraint, not a goal.
That's the moral bottom line for me
Right. There's nothing wrong with believing that a government (of any country) should prioritize the interests of its citizens over the interests of foreign persons. Actually it's a bit mental to think otherwise. What if a corporation announced that it was going to prioritize the shareholders of some other corporation rather than its own shareholders?
But this isn't really "nativist" under typical definitions, since "citizens" include many, many people who aren't "native-born" but are/were foreign persons and immigrants. Nothing that I've ever seen even from the most immigration-hawkish folks proposes to protect the interests of native-born citizens differently than that of non-native-born citizens. But that is precisely the dishonest implication that is intended when dishonest racism mongers like Sarcastro use "nativist" as a pejorative. Interesting that your definition adds "or established inhabitants" because that's a different thing entirely.
In every single immigration thread started by Prof. Somin, we hear "deport Somin." Trump, of course, famously called for the Squad to "go back where they came from."
In the Squad, Omar was born in Somalia, and I think the others were born in the USA. So are you giving Trump as an example of treating native-born and foreign-born the same? He apparently lumped them together in his remark.
Actually, our policy of sustaining globally unprecedented immigration levels over the law few decades results in a $500 billion annual wealth transfer from middle and working class Americans, to the wealthy and privileged few. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/
That was before Joe Biden flung open the borders, multiplying the rate of illegal immigration by a factor of 5 to 10, and adding 10 to 20 million total illegal immigrants to the population during his term. So this number has multiplied.
Immigration levels are ostensibly decided by Congress and the American people, as are the laws that seek to prevent and criminalize illegal immigration. Joe Biden's actions in this regard are a circumvention of self-government and of the Constitution, and represent a failure to take care that the laws are faithfully executed.
But while Biden's actions have taken things to a new level, they are also consistent with the strategy of open borders advocates or immigration maximalists, who for decades have circumvented democratically enacted decisions on immigration policy by incentivizing and facilitating massive levels of illegal immigration outside the legal system. Well-funded NGOs work tirelessly to equip and support caravans of migrants from all over the world as they travel through Central America and into Mexico to cross the US southern border. Policies such as the Flores settlement and its expansions dictate that illegally crossing minors cannot be "detained" for more than 20 days, and therefore they and their families and everyone who accompanies them must simply be released in the US freely, or otherwise must be separated from their families and entered into a child care system that doesn't count as detainment. Leftists such as Kamala Harris agitate for abolishment of ICE, decriminalization of illegal border crossing, free health care and college for illegals, and amnesty, citizenship and voting rights for illegals.
In the end, Biden's skyrocketing illegal immigration levels make good on a long history of promises and statements calling for a "constant" and "unrelenting" stream of immigration into the US. In 2015, for example, Biden stated that "an unrelenting stream of immigration, nonstop, nonstop,” was a necessary part of America's secret to success or its "black box" that allows America to "remake itself." He explained further, "Folks like me who are Caucasian, of European descent, for the first time in 2017 we’ll be in an absolute minority in the United States of America, absolute minority . . . Fewer than 50% of the people in America from then and on will be white European stock," he said. "That’s not a bad thing, that’s a source of our strength." Incidentally, I don't think what he said about demographics is actually quite correct, but either way it seems like a strange thing to fixate upon.
Typical ML.
Cite a Biden quote that was “distorted and taken out of context by no less a racist scumbag than Tucker Carlson and throw it against the wall here.
Tucker's latest was to interview a historian who argues Hitler did nothing wrong, and was provoked by that perfidious Churchill.
Also some Holocaust denial.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-09-03/ty-article/.premium/tucker-carlson-platforms-holocaust-revisionism-with-elon-musks-endorsement
Lets talk more about how antisemitism is only a problem on the left!